#Permanent +1-1

69 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wind dome
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Can we finally get +1-1 matchmaking on WW2 please, I realise this is going to cause a keyboard war..but hear me out…obviously we are all aware that bot games are getting more frequent which obviously isn’t enjoyable for anyone and frankly with the power creep at possibly the worst this game has ever had most T8s especially tech tree 8s now are let’s be honest not competitive especially when playing 10s…the same can be said for 6s against 8s, then 7s 9s….

The point is +1-1 makes games way more competitive and therefore fun, its makes the outlier tanks easier to balance and also encourages more players either to pick the game back up and also invites new players to start playing and doesn’t put them off

foggy lion
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Id imagine as tier 9 is a less popular tier than tier 10 and 8 this would lead to more frequent tier 10 only games and tier 8 always top tiering against tier 7 as a result.

+1 -1 is a great idea and from what we have been able to play with it when it was available, it was great. My only concern is the increased queue times for some tiers due to the more limited pool, meaning more bot games potentially.

Also as a major tier 10 player, not seeing tier 8 is both a blessing and a curse as the tank potential pool drops significantly as tier 8 has the most tanks tier for tier and also would make the game alot harder for worse players, while high level players probably dont see a major change.

exotic seal
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Last Feedback we got on WG side after +/-1 testing was the matchmaker had no problems creating matches no more bot games happened.
For me there is no reason ro not implement it apart from making money by frustrating t8 players to spent money on free xp prem time etc.
Clubing t8s in my t10 brings me no joy . And getting yoloed or two shoted in my t8 vs a t10 is also not great.
In a perfect world we would play +/-0 but that is not gonna happen

vapid hatch
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I saw some moron who said 1+ 1- would lose more players because it take to long to load into the match which is false

foggy lion
# exotic seal Last Feedback we got on WG side after +/-1 testing was the matchmaker had no pro...

The whole first part of my reply was just speculative with the whole potential tiering problem.

+/-0 imo would be beyond boring for all tiers besides tier 8, as the tank pool would grow stale very quickly.

And imo playing tier 8 into tier 10 is a good challenge, I advise if you are getting yolod/2 shotted in your tier 8s though, to play a little safer/smarter.

Overall I agree +1/-1 is an ideal world but as ive stated before specifically for tier 10, it drastically limits the tank pool and will lead to more casual players playing stronger tanks at tier 10 as people know they are not seeing tier 8 anymore. None of what I said neither applies or doesnt apply to me and is entirely just an opinion towards the majority of the player base which is average players.

white musk
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These posts pop up regularly and it seems like we're just shouting into the void. As someone who primarily grinds tech tree tanks, I can say for sure that it's not enjoyable constantly being pitted against OP premium tanks two tiers higher than can delete my stock tank in 2-3 hits. Granted, the playing field is someone leveled once the tank is fully upgraded, but how many people enjoy getting roflstomped for the required number of games that it takes to make a tank useable. Either implement +1/-1 or buff tech tree tanks to be competitive against all of the premiums that the vast majority of the players insist on using.

exotic seal
# foggy lion The whole first part of my reply was just speculative with the whole potential t...

i dont agree here i want to play on fair ground not against a player who has a heavy disadvantage or advantage.
I can have good round in my t8s in t10 lobbies but lets say in each team is one super uni i am in my Is3 he in a E5 he will win that round because he can farm my t10 and if i try help them guess what will happen.

Is not about playing smart if i am in my T10 u play a T8 and i want to see you destroyed i can do it and if u avoid me i will farm your whole team before getting to you.
A bigger tank pool is not sth i would say is a + point necessarily.
like with more maps most players dont know how to play 10 maps and how do they learn when they get more and more
i would cut map pool and tank pool down so people can focus on learning how to play stuff properly (weakspots, tank knowledge, map knowledge)

foggy lion
# exotic seal i dont agree here i want to play on fair ground not against a player who has a h...

We should not cut a map pool and tank pool down because people cant learn tank? Many people including me have took the time to learn tanks armor, gun stats. for me its from tier 8-10 specifically to know every weakspot and armor layout, exact pen needed to disregard armor, overmatch armor plates and know what angles are a bounce for that specific tank. Lowering the tank pool just decreases the level of skill/knowledge to play this game, which is one of the major skillful things this game has.

Also to say that when your in a tier 8, that you rather have to just die if they want you dead or avoid them entirely is a low skill opinion. You can play besides your team, use third person cam to see when they look away from you, play at angles that dont allow them to punish you easily, play in a hard to dig out position, use there reload times against them. Your making it to clear and simple when in reality against a super uni it isnt that simple, if you are a good player in a tier 8 yoy can give a tier 10 super uni a run for his money if you play as good/better than him, the way you worded it makes it seem like your rather A) going to let him push you out, or B) not look at the tank/player at all and let him do what he wants, which is a flawed analogy when saying the 2 players are uni players.

vivid igloo
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Lets be fair, the majority of the issue is mainly due to the heavy lack of balance that accounts across the two tier spread. Actually getting a solid balance pass genuinely starts to clear the majority of issues, but, qe never had a proper balance pass that address the outlying tanks that cause the issues to start.

Adding in +1-1 might narrow the gaps, but even in a -1+1 spread you still run into similar issues. Trying to go -0+0 would just be the death of games in lower tiers where people might drop down into and even then there tanks that would still struggle in this scenario still.

I get people's points of having -1+1, but I'd rather the insane imbalance get addressed first as without it, you still cause the issues. X tank is a problem, X tank is too weak, X tanks appears more often because its busted in the spread.

exotic seal
# foggy lion We should not cut a map pool and tank pool down because people cant learn tank? ...

For me when the game started with 3 Nations i think it was also fun not many different Tanks not many maps we had a much easier time learning that stuff because we also had no 10+Year veterans farming us.
we had time to learn bit by bit for each new tank and map.
If we both have normal teams i can farm your Teammates in my T10 easily while you have to be super careful against every opponent i have better DPM PEN MOBILITY and ARMOR .
and if we are equally skilled i will win 90% of the Games (Vice versa if i am in a T8 and u in a T10 obviously)
If you make a mistake in ur T8 u are toast if i make one in my T10 i lose a few of my Hitpoints.
Thats what i am saying obviously i can farm a Newbie in a T10 while i am in my T8 but thats not the point.

exotic seal
foggy lion
foggy lion
foggy lion
vivid igloo
# exotic seal i agree here but you need to implement +1/-1 first before you can really balance...

Id rather balance be done first, then add +1-1 if still needed, then add -1+1 then balance.

The balance is easy enough to sort, its just WGMA just dont not implement anything across a wide scale because they are scared of palyer response. No other game is this scared to balance, if stuff is unhealthy, it gets nerfed, no matter how much people may whine because its their favorite clubbing weapon

foggy lion
vivid igloo
# foggy lion I mean once example is that alot of tier 8 premiums are far better than most tie...

There a lot of outliers in tier 8 that can comfortably flex to the situation being in toer 10 matches. It the others where the issues make the gap vastly visible. Look at people that defended the Grom to get get deep rifled as an option package, yet it sits at the more over preforming end of the tier 8 spectrum

Though again to a degree, people need to realise what they can actually do in a tank and not expect to be able to play the same as they down when facing people two tiers below of their own tank, 8vs6.

There nothing saying outside of balancing and even adding +1-1, people will still find something to moan about X tank. Its just turns into a loop of complaining.

foggy lion
vivid igloo
vivid igloo
exotic seal
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For me i play rather against a E65 in my IS3 than against an E5 thats why i think +/-1 should be first before the balance update but i think both would be good for the game together would be great

vivid igloo
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Then you have the issue if +1-1 doesnt work, then good luck trying to get the argument across for it even if it runsstches in the long term. Kinda of why to me you do balance first, then the most extreme of -1+1 as a last measure.

exotic seal
vivid igloo
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They added it so it priorities -0+0 and +1-1 where feasible. However, they have the player count to deal with that though that has still had its issue due to the 'weight' system.

As players, we would of only seen the effects are side. Not gonna wider scale nor a server issue side which WG has not expanded on.

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Player side it might seem beneficial, but the side of the server has not been explained by WGMA which is likely where the issues are at.

exotic seal
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If i am not mistaken they said it last time in either the stream or the article (after the last test) that it does not affect the MM in a negative way

glad oak
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+/-1 is fun for most seasoned players and the vast majority of new and casual players.
Simple solution is to make it a thing 2 weeks of every season and put some fun back into this game for us the players. (It may even bring people back to the game plus plus)
We really don't need any more people telling us over and over that this FUN is impossible or it's not aloud, It just winds people up.
Find a solution and make it happen.

last raft
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+1-1 is more balanced, queue times aren’t affected, and are even faster for certain tiers, bot games decrease, the disparity between the balance of tanks is closer together, so matches last longer and are more fair

Therefore we will never see it permanently because that would be healthy for the game, and WG only make changes that make the game worse every single time. They deliberately ignore feedback whenever it’s anything positive for the game and they wonder why they’ve had to transfer ownership over to the Europeans

This game will be dead soon if they don’t sort this mess out. People have already quit in droves, that’s why the number of bot games during non peak hours is so ridiculous. It’s like a ghost town if you don’t play during prime hours

But we all know the corporate higher ups running the show only care about money not user experience. Happens with anything good. The shareholders and suits behind the scenes will just kill it off the moment it isn’t profitable anymore. It won’t get fixed

last dust
# exotic seal If i am not mistaken they said it last time in either the stream or the article ...

I would put money no one has said that, and at best you are misquoting. It's possible that a single aspect didn't get worse, but I had to repeatedly explain multiple different things that did get worse. Last time it was done when I was still staff there was essentially no single measurable metric that got better or stayed the same. Like maybe 1 or 2 in very specific circumstances, but everything else got worse. So gonna have to stick with X for doubt on anyone saying that nothing got worse in the course of like a month

last dust
last raft
last dust
# last raft Either way, money remains their only objective

So in that case you think +-1 mm is bad for business? But still want it to happen?

If they want money then they need players, can't get people to spend money if there is no one to spend. So you agree with WG that it would be harmful to the game. Kinda odd stance.

That or your stance makes no sense and conflicts with itself after even the most basic of thought. One of the two.

lucid plaza
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And Bam say it on stream btw

last dust
lucid plaza
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Tank chats, ep 5

1:07:30

exotic seal
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thank you

lucid plaza
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I also not a friend of adding +-1 into the game, but it is doesnt Affect the matchmaker, than i dont rly care about

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It should be a win win situation at all

last dust
# lucid plaza

So i went and watched the whole context.

He said one of the main concerns in the first test was if an increased server load would cause problems and it didn't. Then said that any other stuff would be monitored.

So in no way did it remotely say it didn't negatively effect mm. It didn't bring the servers down is the only comment there.

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So thanks for backing me up I guess?

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In a perfect world I'd personally love to see +-1, but knowing what I know i am very doubtful it'll ever happen because the negatives far outweigh the positives.

A more hopeful outcome is the current systems ability to try and put people in +-1 first is improved and expanded on. So that would be where I lay any hopes and dreams

last raft
# last dust So in that case you think +-1 mm is bad for business? But still want it to happe...

I’m saying +1-1 would boost player retention and overall satisfaction, leading to more players spending more money because the product is better. I know I would

But companies don’t think long term. They only want the most profits immediately, at the expensive of the quality, health and balance of the game, hence why they didn’t implement +1-1, because it isn’t the instant revenue generator that they want. Slop like WH40k Rogal dorn does that

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And that’s why we gets bot matches 50% of the time during off peak hours now. People are tired and have left

last dust
exotic seal
last raft
last dust
# exotic seal to be fair WG Console did made quite a few lets say not so good decisions (6.0 a...

I'm certainly not gonna claim faultless, hell I defo made mistakes lol. Everyone does. But you can count the number of 13+ year old games that have over 10k ccu peaks on fingers and toes. So on the broad scheme of things, clearly it's not going all wrong.

And you can objectively see reactions to things and approaches made to improve things. Most players won't know or care but the patch notes have mentioned ipx changes repeatedly for past couple years. That's the experience new players get. Putting improvements and work into ipx is not a shorter term planning goal/process. It's the sort of thing that can take years to get back what you put in. Rework to the crew/commander system, similar. The idea that all actions are short sighted is so easily disproved it just becomes a meme of an argument imo.

last raft
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I’m not the only one who feels like that about +1-1, it’s been vocalised more than enough time by hundreds, if not thousands of players back when we had more people playing

last dust
last dust
last raft
exotic seal
last raft
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But the benefits of a happier playerbase don’t generate as much revenue as slop, and as I said, ultimately that’s what it is about, not having a quality fun product

last dust
# last raft We can agree to disagree on that one. I think a happier playerbase overall is be...

The difference is you assume our preference is better based on very little. My point is that with very little requirement if the change was as black and white positive as you claim, then the "money first" action would be to do it.

So the 2 options are it isn't as black and white positive as you think, or a company who have successfully run a video game longer than 99.99999% of all others have no idea how to think and plan beyond a week or 2 but you as a person with no knowledge or experimental in the matter does.

last dust
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Bam very clearly says server load was a concern (one of them) and that means more tests can be run as it doesn't cause server issues

last raft
last dust
last raft
last dust
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It's almost the opposite in a way actually

vivid igloo
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Most the current staff are like those that were around 4.6 and before that. Likely after the 3 year gap of nothing around 2017 or so is when most the shifts happened. That team likely hasn't changes much.

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The existing team at the very start for the first 3 years are the ones were most of the shift occurred. But, whether the design, art, teams behind the scene chnage you'll never know.

last dust
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Also, to just make a point that I think gets overlooked because frankly most people have no idea about the wider scheme of things. WoTc as a 13 year old console game still gets 12-15k peak CCU. In the steam charts this would put it just outside top 100 games on all of steam. Games in a similar ballpark (steam only):

  • ESO
  • Dune: Awakening
  • Assetto Corsa
  • EU4
  • WH:Darktide
  • Among us
  • Albion Online
  • Arma 3
  • Marathon (lol)
  • EU5
  • Game of the year Clair Obscur
  • EA FC25

And many other big titles, with a lot of them actually having lower peak CCU. Now not all are like for like, but many are games that people pay once or support entire studios. So WoTc after 13 years of churn finds itself in a position that many games can only dream of in terms of playerbase. The idea that the current numbers are some sign of imminent death or a terrible place to be just shows a lack of knowledge.

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Correcting myself as just found i could sort by 24 hour peak lol, puts it around top 150