ATGM Changes (Nerf Speed and Module Damage)

[fresh thorn]

Change ATGM acceleration back to pre-arming distance values (where the devs added the 65-100m arming distance and also increased the acceleration of ATGMs, so they reach top speed in a shorter distance). This would increase the average travel time for the ATGM, the time the tank needs to expose themselves while aiming, and the time the opponent has to smoke, cover, shoot, etc. (ADATS would be more difficult to balance/nerf cause those ATGMs move so fast compared to every other one)

Nerf ATGM module damage (somewhere above the high caliber 140-152mm guns at ERA3 but lower than current). Ammo racking is so frequent with ATGMs, and it increases the likelihood of one-sided curb stomps on flanks when a full health tank (or multiple) get ammoracked.

[hexed scroll]

I agree about reverting the atgm acceleration. The module damage is rather extreme as well and should be lowered.

[hollow kiln]

Revert the ATGM change as a whole and implement WT's system

Over there, missiles can only be fired and guided when stationary or at a crawl speed for most vehicles

This stops drive bys and enables missile carriers to defend themselves in CQB again

And as for your call for a module damage nerf, honestly I think part of the issue isn't that the damage is so high (it is still high), but rather module health is so low

Things like fires, ammo damage, and crew deaths happen ridiculously often to even smaller caliber autocannons

[fresh thorn]

They could do what they did with rotary guns and make autocannons only do track damage/viewport module damage at most

WT system of requiring low speed/stationary, I question whether the devs would actually consider implementing and completely overhauling the system. It is crazy how you can be doing 60-70kph and guiding missiles on the move

Is it fun for the user? Yes.
Is it fun for the recipient? No

But yeah you’re right about certain missile carriers being unable to defend themselves in cqc (looks at Raketen at ERA2)

[devout furnace]

For some tank it would make sense, but for others that are missle only I really don't know

I guess if it's a dual system ATGM + auto cannon then the tank can/should be stationary to fire the ATGMs, but if we're talking just the missle carriers that have nothing then they should be able to fire at all movement speeds

That would give them at least some kind of edge/leniency and not be completely killed off by a change like that

And as for th module damage for ATGMs, a slight reduction would be nice but honestly we need crew/module HP buffs - direct ones

[fresh thorn]

Is the module health at era2/3 similar to modules at tier 10?

[devout furnace]

That's the thing, we really don't know

Cause we can't directly see the module health numbers per module of a tank

This by extension also goes for the terrain resistance tests, if wargaming wants to implement it like - similarly to what the current test is rn, then they have to nerf ATGMs

No exceptions

[fresh thorn]

Cause I’ve been running internal hardening, safe stowage perk, and the spall liner on certain tanks with weak and exposed ammo racks to stop one shot ammo racks

[devout furnace]

IE acceleration speed + module damage

[devout furnace]

Pretty much just bandaid solutions, but valid cause what're you gonna do otherwise?

[fresh thorn]

Yeah like it’s wild to sacrifice two equipment slots and a perk slot

Terrain test show how much of a menace ATGMs become when the average ERA3 MBT can’t close the distance effectively anymore

[fresh thorn]

Go to the next battle after getting 4k one shot in my challenger 2

[devout furnace]

Rough but, challenger moment

[devout furnace]

Also, some autocannons should get buffed to make it more possible to defend oneself like a damage increase with the bushmasters/ATGMs

Make them actually useful

[fresh thorn]

The BMP3 and M3A2 autocannons are particularly anemic

[devout furnace]

The marder can defend itself just fine - ish

But yeah it's the BMPs and the Bradley's that need that damage increase the most

Same for the 9040/46 and the stormer

[fresh thorn]

I think the STRF and stormer are okay (stormer has 40 instead of 30 alpha and mobility over the M3A2 and strf has a decent burst)

The BMP3 is still underwhelming with the terrain changes

To combat ATGM ammoracks, a general increase to module health would be nice, maybe increase the spall liner effect on subtracting atgm module damage

[devout furnace]

Nah spall liner stays 25%, but ATGMs module damage gets decreased by -25%

[fresh thorn]

Fair enough, one or the other

[devout furnace]

Oh I was saying both

That way running spall isn't exactly mandatory but if you do then that's -50% module decrease to what we currently have

-50% Model health damage decrease

[fresh thorn]

My big gripe was why the devs felt the need to increase the atgm acceleration when it wasn’t needed

Back during the introduction of the arming distance

[devout furnace]

Like take the 9040/56 BILL missles - 700 module damage

A minus 25% blanket nerf to ATGM module damage would make it 525

Still high, but not stupidly high as it currently is

And if spall liner is being used then the received damage would go to 350

[devout furnace]

Tbh many were a tad slow, but now they're a bit too fast

There needs to be an in-between to what was and is current with the speeds for missles to be fun + rewarding whilst still being skillful like it used to be with doing angling of the missles + tricks n whatnot

[fresh thorn]

ADATS are lowkey unbearable rn in the terrain test. Call me a complainer, but it shows why ATGMs shouldn’t be fast fast

[devout furnace]

Oh I understand

[modest stag]

Yeah that’s a far better way than the arming distance

[modest stag]

It was impossible to tell between fast and slow missiles bc top speed was meaningless.

[hollow kiln]

That's why we can do stat buffs

Give them better camo to start with

Buffing the Wiesel's camo to something like a max of 100-150 m on the move would be fine. It has meh DPM and a very limited turret yaw. Speed and stealth are how it survives.

Giving the Jaguar more camo too is all it needs tbh.

And as for the ELC better camo once again is all it'd really need at most.

And that's literally it for the missiles carriers

Improved camo is all they'd need to level things out

[modest stag]

Camo is a dubious way to handle lights. I’m not sure what a better option is but camo just got turbonerfed bc of the community

[hollow kiln]

I don't want it back to the insane proxy spot levels, but it needs some camo buffs. Keep in mind what I'm discussing would also come with a nerf to module damage and buff to module health + a requirement to fire and guide missiles when stationary, so it's not just getting a standalone camo buff.

[modest stag]

Yeah I wonder if atgm dpm buffs are warranted. Like a 20% alpha nerf plus a 50% dpm buff instead of camo. Idk

[hollow kiln]

Nerfing alpha for DPM would be fine with me

Even after all these changes, getting hit with a missile that could roll over 1400+ is not fun.

[dawn stone]

That's because they hit more than one rack, cw tanks have loads more racks than WW2 tanks.

[dawn stone]

Would completely neuter missile only tanks in general, because they can no longer pen shotgun things, basically if the team dies that tank is more than likely dead in the water if the proposed changed happen in this thread then shotgunning should be allowed especially missile only tanks.

[hollow kiln]

Shotgunning is fine when its not a drive by

Also I believe me and Nate were specifically talking about the Wiesel

A tank that definitely should not be getting high alpha and camo while being one of the fastest vehicles around

[dawn stone]

Honestly wouldn't have these issues if accuracy wasn't nerfed in cw so people can actually hit things so the complaints about missiles go away, the reason why missiles are the way they are is because there the only real threat/deterrents to many tanks from moving everywhere Willy nilly.

[hollow kiln]

Accuracy really isn't the issue I'm gonna be honest

Even before Steady Aim was removed most people still struggled hitting it even at close range