Buff the lower plate armour on challenger 1 and challenger 2

[icy coral]

These light tanks with autocannons are able to shred challenger 1 and challenger 2 through the front with the autocannons and it’s simply wrong they shouldn’t be penning them anywhere through the front with autocannons. And I have been penned by missiles through the front of the turret when playing challenger 2 two nights in a row now, why is this acceptable for challenger 2 to just be penned anywhere by missiles, the turret armour is suppose to be your strongest armour and you should be able to be confident that nothing will pen it, missiles are too overpowered and the combination of the autocannon as well makes them way too strong.

[sharp ocean]

Its always good when it happens. Some advantages they must have now when they have been nerfed in a way that only experienced players can manage to play them in a great way.

[hybrid venture]

I have had those 20 mm auto cannons pen the front of other tanks too. The Osario even. Not every round of course, just 1-2 shots in a clip. A 120mm can't pen the front, but a 20mm can?

I was beginning to wonder if an auto-pen mechanic was added to those autocannons or if it is a bug.

I'll be taking hits and blocking damage hundreds and even thousands. Then I will get hit and lose less than a hundred health from something like a Stormer.

It doesn't make sense. Those 20mm should be useless to the fronts of proper MBT's.

[sharp ocean]

Got a episode on Siegfried line where l could not pen a EE in any side with a 7c, but a Marder 3 came up behind me and evaporated it in its frontal armor using the machine gun. Really nice

[hybrid venture]

Has something changed? Or has that always happened and I am just now taking note of it.

Either way it seems wrong.

[jovial sentinel]

The Challengers have always had the weak driver's hatch, and the lower plate hasn't been brilliant either

[sharp ocean]

More ore less always, but it seems more frequent now

[hybrid venture]

How about the Osario?

[sharp ocean]

That tank is extremely good. You can yolo in like nothing

[sharp ocean]

And when cw mod started m1a2 was the soft target of the two top tier. But after a long time of complaining it got a good armor buff, so there are no reason for the challenger2 getting a treatment armor wise

[hybrid venture]

Yet it still can get penned by 20mm Bushmasters when a 120mm gun that has 700 pen bounces.

[sharp ocean]

Its the machine gun magic from a balance

[jovial sentinel]

The M1 family never got an armour buff. What instead happened was the whole system of how APFSDS interacting with armour was changed.

[sharp ocean]

Oki, but what ever they did it made m1a2 less soft compared to what it used to be, no doubt about that. Challenger2 need that too

[blazing mulch]

The whole thing about the Abrams being a joke before the sabot update was a oversight it's ufp isn't supposed to be easy to pen before the update it just constantly got overmatched

Challenger2 just has trash hull armor

[stark bay]

Don't buff the lower plate.

My reasoning

Its funny to bully challengers

[blazing mulch]

All British heavys post Churchill heavys to the challenger2 all are the same in that regard trash hull armor

[icy coral]

It’s not funny

[stark bay]

It is for me. Lol

[icy coral]

It’s not on that autocannons can just shred it through the front

[stark bay]

Cool.

How many ACs are there at Gen 3?

[icy coral]

Quite a lot

What relevance does that have anyway

[icy coral]

You think it’s fine because you don’t even have challenger 2

[stark bay]

What?

The feeling of being able to he penetrated with each and every single shot the enemy throws at me?

Yea. I do know that feeling

Its called a light tank.

I dunno.

Cope?

Get an abrams or something

[icy coral]

Are you American ?

[icy coral]

What about buff the armour on the lower plate

[stark bay]

That isn't going to do anything realistically

Auto-cannons at Gen 3 are sorta niche

[icy coral]

Buff it so they can’t pen it through the front

[icy coral]

This message just says it all

[stark bay]

Damn bro you got ripped off with your challenger

Oh well. If its your favorite tank thats disappointing but its time to upgrade. Get an abrams or leo 2A5 if you want to be competitive.

Like. I'm pretty sure the armor isn't even that bad irl

68mm?

You can get pierced by a grandma with a tennis ball.

[icy coral]

I already have those tanks

[stark bay]

Oh perfect

Splendid even.

[jovial sentinel]

It wasn't a direct buff to the Abrams though. The armour itself was not changed.

The Challengers have different issues with their armour layouts. They don't get an easily overmatched upper plate, they have a weak hatch and lower plate at flat angles.

[icy coral]

What’s wrong with buffing the tank ?

[stark bay]

Oh nothing

Just that WG will probably never give it an actual armor buff.

Ever.

It already has the strongest premium shell for a TT tank in game so.

[icy coral]

No because the m1a2 is fine and that’s all that matters

[stark bay]

Thats enough I guess.

[icy coral]

They didn’t even have the decency to get the ammo count right on challenger 1

[icy coral]

Challenger 2 doesn’t

[stark bay]

Yes it does?

740 if I remember correctly

[icy coral]

No it’s 730 the m1a2 has 740

[stark bay]

Oops

Thars the abrams

Rip

Uh

Random excuse to not buff it.

Uh uh uh

Aha

It has hesh

Blatantly over powered. Clearly will never be in need of a buff.

Totally

[sharp ocean]

What ever they did, it was in the meaning to make m1a2 armor harder to pen. Call it what ever you want

[jovial sentinel]

It certainly did affect the M1 family, but they weren't the only other targets. The sides and rears of many other MBTs were of a similar thickness and it affected those too.

The M1 just had the unfortunate trait of having that thickness on the upper plate

It was not a direct M1 buff. The tank was left unchanged from before, which is a slight problem as it became overtuned because of all the buffs to make it viable it had by that point

[blazing mulch]

M1a2 supremacy

740mm apfsdsdu go brrr

[late heron]

The only way the challengers will get an armour buff is by updating their models to include an combat kit armour package, which would also mean they would have to adjust their stats to include the extra weight

[blazing mulch]

Is there even a challenger2 option that has extra armor that fits in the era3 window?

Ik with the Abrams we can get the sepv1

[late heron]

The earliest example I've found is from 2000, but it's a challenger 2 using the same hull add-on kit the challenger 1 used

So it's same to assume the challenger 2 used it in the 90s

[sharp ocean]

After alot of complaining about m1a2 armor, this was the solution for the m1a2 armor softness so you can call it what you want. Abrams fans needed it to be harder than the BU, as BU was in the start, so what you have thoroughly explain about the topic, was aparently a indirect m1a2 armor buff eighter you see it that way ore not.

[blazing mulch]

The ufp of the Abrams was not a weakness it was a exploit

Hence why the sabot update happened

If they buffed it's ufp armor it would've not been accurate to it's irl armor

[distant terrace]

Look, id love the lower plate. But if its out, you are using it wrong

Id really love the full armour package

[icy coral]

You can’t hide the lower plate all the time

[lucid quiver]

What 🤣😭

[edgy needle]

The M1A1 also got a 40ish% turret armor nerf

[haughty parrot]

@icy coral the challenger ll is one of the worst performing top tier heavies by winrate.

I personally agree with you that it could use a buff of some kind.

The armor is meh and the gun is meh. It doesn't really have any stand out features and its not even a jack of all trades because it isn't very versatile either.

I'd take a gun buff over lower plate but it does need something.

[icy coral]

I think the gun accuracy could do with a buff

[haughty parrot]

Agreed.

The Chally has pretty disappointing DPM as well.

Personally if I'm going to play a heavy that has armor that only works hull down it better have a pretty excellent gun and the Chally just doesn't.

It sacrifices a lot on the armor department for no relevant gains in other areas.

[icy coral]

The m1a2 has better pen better dpm and better armour

And since the new season the gun doesn’t seem to pen as well as it did before either

[zealous garden]

Hate to be that guy but I think eastern alliance tanks and the independents need buffs before the challengers they perform way better than most tanks which goese for the whole western alliance.

[stark bay]

Fellas

Fellas

While these tanks do need considerable buffs

I believe its never going to happen.

And who's to say they'll even be good buffs?

WG has a bit of habit of "buffing" vehicles in minor ways and then refusing to even think of them afterwards

If they buff them at all. That is

Altho I do find it funny how WT has Russian/Eastern bias and WoT has Western Bias.

[zealous garden]

Unless premium lol

[icy coral]

Challenger 2 was a good tank before the update now it’s crap

[sharp ocean]

Yes its not as it was. Frontal turret armor are not reliable as it used to be.

[blazing mulch]

Wouldn't say the challenger2 was great ever it's not trash but it's armor is very lackluster and gets set on fire quite often

Good reasons why you dont see it very often just all the other nato mbt options are just simply better

[icy coral]

Yes it doesn’t perform at the level of top era western heavies anymore

[icy coral]

I think it used to be great I got on with it really well

[blazing mulch]

I didn't hate it but as it stands currently just kinda there it is the least popular nato mbt

Before they buffed the m1a2 Abrams gold apfsds round from 640mm to 740mm i think the challenger2 had the best gold round

[icy coral]

Of any tech tree heavy it did

[icy coral]

It just seems to be lacking a bit of everything

[blazing mulch]

It's still playable just gets outshined by nearly all the other heavy,s in era3 only one id say is potentially worse is probably the Chinese tanks

But the type90-2 isn't that bad of a tank

Idk just as the challenger2 sits it's just kinda meh not bad not great kinda just there

[icy coral]

I think the gun accuracy needs buffing and the armour needs some buffs as well

[icy coral]

I’m finding it frustrating to play

[blazing mulch]

If they buff it's armor it wont be accurate to it's irl stats

Now it's accuracy that's possible to improve

Hell id give it slightly faster rof since you know British heavys are all about above average dpm

[icy coral]

It should have better accuracy then the leopard 2a5 and the m1a2

[blazing mulch]

Why would it be more accurate then both of those?

What about the leclerc s1

[icy coral]

And more accurate than the leclerc

Because it has a rifled gun that is more accurate than the guns on the leopard 2a5 and m1a2 in real life

[blazing mulch]

So you would want it to be the most accurate nato mbt but currently that belongs to the m1a2 in not only raw accuracy but also in gun handling

The Abrams is so accurate it almost feels like aimbot lol

[icy coral]

I think the leopard 2a5 is more accurate than both challenger 2 and m1a2

In game

With gun handling as well yes

[blazing mulch]

Leo2 and m1a1-m1a2 Abrams use the same exact 120mm also the Japanese type90 same thing

[icy coral]

The m1a2 has better dpm and pen

[icy coral]

Yes

It’s a German gun

[blazing mulch]

So technically everything that uses the German 120mm should be basically equally accurate

But that be boring

Even could say the era2 premium leo1 vt-2 it has that gun as well

[icy coral]

The gun on the vt2 is derpy

[zealous garden]

Chally two is way better than eastern tanks and even the merkava...I just don't run it because I'm grinding silver.

[blazing mulch]

The best eastern mbt in era3 definitely is the t72bu

Id argue it's better then the challenger2

Simply because of much more effective armor

[zealous garden]

Ahh yes where I can set it on fire twice where if you hull down with chally it's mostly impenetrable

Cant really go hull down with bu

[icy coral]

Missiles pen challenger 2 through the turret

[zealous garden]

Well yha if your just sitting still anything will pen you

Goese for any tank

[icy coral]

Not through the turret front it doesn’t

[zealous garden]

Cupola sniping the bu is doable

Do it all the time

[blazing mulch]

That's the object 640 you're thinking of

[zealous garden]

No it goese for all Russian tanks

[blazing mulch]

The t72,s yes they can be set on fire nowhere near as much as the t80,s

[zealous garden]

They all are ez fires

That's why for comp you don't run any eastern tanks.

[blazing mulch]

That's mostly due to where the fuel tank is placed on them

Can perma track and burn them potentially at the same time quite brutal

[zealous garden]

That's why I'm asking for buffs on eastern tanks most times you just auto pen thru the era

Regardless if you aim for low or upper plate

[blazing mulch]

You dont auto pen in era3 I've had shots somehow fail to pen the ufp of a m8 ags with a 125mm with over 600mm pen

Ah yes mystical armor

[zealous garden]

That goese with any lights and you know this yourself even the Wiesel magically deflects shells.

[blazing mulch]

Yeah even tho literally everything should overmatch it sometimes it just doesn't take damage

[zealous garden]

But that's something else entirely I'm talking about eastern alliance as a whole being a massive joke.

[blazing mulch]

The biggest joke in cw is the Czech/polish/Romanian branch

[zealous garden]

This is why I've been asking for tt eastern alliance to be buffed and independents, they did a small buff to eastern before skills and equipment changes and did western alliance and called it a day, and the buffs provided for eastern tanks was not enough in my opinion let alone era 2 specifically era 3 also suffers as well, I wish wg would buff tech trees to where they are good and decent in there own regards, I'm not saying the chally doesn't need buffs but I think it's in a more usable state than eastern and independents tech tree.

[blazing mulch]

Likely the next cw tank reballancing sweep will be independent because damn some of those are just

[zealous garden]

Look at the 7c standard pen...and then the merkava armor has been well over power crept.

[signal flicker]

Gotta remember that in CW they changed overmatch to 3.5x for APDS rounds. Bunch of really awkward stuff shatters shots now, like I love when a track or track guard somehow sends my shell to the shadow realm or the rear/roof of an mbt avoids damage

[blazing mulch]

Tbf the merkava mk3 was broken at launch

Basically was a molot before the molot

[zealous garden]

You had to aim towards the sides and not center I remember that.

[blazing mulch]

Yeah something like that been a hot minute

Overall I like the merkava mk3 it's atgm's reload very fast

[zealous garden]

It wasn't bad per se was just the engine absorbed all damage but if you hit the sides of the center it was full pen

[blazing mulch]

Makes it quite lethal potentially

[zealous garden]

If you could still shotgun sure this would help the tank but not anymore .

Was nice loading up a missile on first engagement.

[blazing mulch]

Yeah glad shotgunning isn't a thing anymore that single handily ruined era3

[zealous garden]

For me not really, was mainly the Wiesel doing the most if anything

[blazing mulch]

The weasel tow was the biggest offender of it

[zealous garden]

I would actually love to have unguided missiles on the heavy tanks just so I can do it again or the megach 7c.

Have it as a equipment or gun option.

[blazing mulch]

Yeah problem tho those tanks fire atgm's only never did rockets

Anyways this is way off topic to the thread

[zealous garden]

Yha I suppose still would be nice though.

[blazing mulch]

Going back to the challenger2

Can't really do anything to the armor but they could change it to have the highest dpm of the nato mbts since you know British heavys are all about dpm