Skills, Equipment & Consumables

[muted epoch]

Personally. I don't like em. All the other skills are niche, some useless to most tanks. Nerfing the main ones we have now will just make everything sluggish. And the new equipment? I haven't really looked those over too well.

[west orbit]

That’s the point. To slow the game down because the most common complaint is fast games and steamrolls

[muted epoch]

Slow the game down by making the game over-all just feel sluggish. Who wants to drive a tiger II with a 10 second reload? God forbid you want to play the IS series.

It's not going to change anything. Its just going to make everyone do the exact same things they already do. But slower.

[raven pebble]

I am 50/50, i want to see what happens and try new builds, but also some skills being removed is mmm ok?

[muted epoch]

An analogy I'd think would suit this is that. Its like a sand clock.

Adding more sand to it (removing accuracy and reload skills and nerfing equipment) will increase the time it'll count down for. But nothing changes about the system. You just made the exact same process take longer.

Players won't adapt to these changes because everything's get hit equally as hard across the board. So theres no real need for a change of tactical moves or strategy.

It's going to be the exact same games. But slower.

[timid solstice]

I'd expect some changes in tactics with these. Lower accuracy will mean tanks will want to fight closer up and spend longer aiming to ensure hits. Slower reloads gives more time to reposition between shots. The camo changes will force tanks that rely on camo to sit a bit further back and stay still. Overall there will be much more competition between skills/equipment so we may even see some new builds show up.

[muted epoch]

I wouldn't really even say new builds will show up when all of them remain just kinda niche or barely noticeable.

Also. I don't really see how movement will change if everyone is going to get their reloads effected. Sure you can try to rush that heavy or TD. But your own reload is hampered as well. I don't think the community will really change tactics.

Best case scenario: we see people do the exact same thing but slower

Worse case: community sees that the meta is gone and leave.

[wispy umbra]

This meta has been strangling the game for years

Plus DPM being axed is going to allow for offensive pushes on maps where it's usually punished heavily

[west orbit]

Tanks aren’t getting their speed nerfed. It means that you’re less likely to take damage going from point A to point B, less likely to get weak spotted when poking. It makes aggressive play more viable

[muted epoch]

Aggressive play was already viable? Like at the wolf pack tactic in CW? You can already play pretty aggressively in some faster heavy tanks and mediums.

[timid solstice]

Not quite to the level of CW. The much poorer dispersion values and still lower speed will prevent ww2 from going full wolfpack meta like CW. I'd sooner expect to see just more aggressive positions, example moving up between a shot or maybe taking some risky lane crosses to get a better angle

The real commonality is better survivability in all playstyles except for camo

[devout bramble]

Most common complaint isn’t speed—you can see on the Xbox reviews. Disappearing tanks was the most common complaint—particularly new players, which CW largely fixes.

[devout bramble]

More likely game playability—eg funky ghost shells, bounces, shots going wild, reticle issues, bs fires/ammo racks—and then the disparity between veterans and new players and in WW2 tier disparity.

Making the game shoot worse is not going to make people want to play it more.

[autumn halo]

Bounced shots aren't really an issue for gameplay. They're a fundamental part of the game lol.

And what, you want TV in WW2? The mode that isn't designed for it and captured the veterans it has through it's vision?

[west orbit]

No it’s just a complaint bc it’s a complicated non intuitive mechanic

[wispy umbra]

Some bounced shots can be crap. But most are just from bad aiming

[autumn halo]

That people don't bother to learn. Seems like a them issue

It's really not that hard to figure out

[wispy umbra]

And yes it's the bush meta that's murdered WW2 paired with the tier disparity and broken community

[west orbit]

They’d rather find another game than learn.

[tame forge]

testing to Auto-aim just announced on stream 😉 😄

[raven pebble]

Can't wait to try it.

[wispy umbra]

Wait what?

[devout bramble]

It seems to be returning a bit more to what it was?—less weirdly grabbing strays in the distance.

[devout bramble]

200m limit
More have to be on target before engage

[tame forge]

the current auto aim/lock on is the same as it has always been AFAIK

[devout bramble]

Ehhh…there have been lots of complaints over the years that it has widened on who it grabs—eg lingers on previously highlighted. Perhaps this is more a camera change—but affected the snapshot being clunky. This feels like it is tightening it back up.

[tame forge]

i could be wrong, but to my knowledge it hasn't changed. Likely one of those things where it got said enough people took it to be true

[devout bramble]

200m range will be interesting part though and definitely different though may have been early in

[wispy umbra]

like how overmatch works

200m limit will be interesting though

Poor creatures camping in their bushes won't be able to cross map snapshot

[west orbit]

The bigger issue is snapping on while driving at long ranges. If you’re still, you probably didn’t need to snapshot

[wispy umbra]

Regardless. I'm forseeing complaints

And I'm going to enjoy every second of it

[west orbit]

I think there should be a speed and distance component. If you’re further then 200m and going faster than 10kph you can’t lock on. It’s how I wish they did the atgm changes

[wispy ruin]

So it just wont work after 200m? Idk I am glad they are looking into it, but not the change thats needed tbh

[wispy umbra]

Nah. 200m on its own is beeg

[timid solstice]

sounded like it will still work but you need to get the reticle onto them before autolock will pick them up

[wispy umbra]

CW might be a bit iffy. But WW2.......this will help

[wispy ruin]

Still doesnt fix the fact that you can lock onto a target as long as its on your screen. Its way too forgiving in that regard

[tame forge]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2564712933?t=00h40m19s talked about here to hear it yourself

[wispy umbra]

Excellent. I'll be looking in a bit

Poor TD players. Getting the axe.

[tame forge]

• within 200m, nothing changes
• over 200m, you have to be more central of the target tank to get the lock

For clarity on the 200m's thing

[wispy umbra]

That's fine. That's good. I like

Much needed change imo

[west orbit]

That’s not horrible. You need to aim well to get the lock

[wispy ruin]

You should have to be on target at all ranges, its really not hard at close range

[west orbit]

Might be an accessibility thing. Lotta older gamers

[tame forge]

you have to be on target at all ranges, but how "central" ? gets tighter

[wispy umbra]

Exactly. And you can't cross map snap-snipe on Prok, Mali, or vineyards

Hooooooo that's going to be nice

[wispy ruin]

I mean right now as long as they are on your screen you can get a lock lol

I will have to see how much this actually effects gameplay

[tame forge]

i think Max mentioned in a thread today that the lock on uses camera and not gun. So you just need to have your camera pointing at them and not technically your gun. So that may be what sometimes makes it feel like you locked on to them outside of being "aimed" on them

Found it: #1413229325221892106 message

[wispy umbra]

does this mean E4 cupola will be reverted now?

[west orbit]

Most importantly, what’s the timeline?

[wispy umbra]

Also that

[tame forge]

"starting September 23rd, a week long test"

[west orbit]

For just auto lock or all the skill stuff?

[tame forge]

auto-lock test

[wispy umbra]

I know when I'll be playing then

[wispy ruin]

Yeah I will have to check that out

[hollow ginkgo]

Auto lock helps players with less than ideal internet connects and hardware. I know from experience. sometimes my internet is crap.

Auto aim will be the only thing that makes it playable. Normally I will use auto-aim to get the gun pointed on target then switch to manually aim at weak points or tracks, etc.

But if my ping is excessive, I keep it on auto aim. That way the server keeps my gun on target. If I try to manually aim with bad ping, it might show I am on target, but actually drifted off or visa versa.

Last gen consoles have less clear graphics and less fps. They likely need to rely on auto-aim more than a current gen console. Simply because they can see what is going on as well.

Then there are the lower skill players of course. They may only use auto aim. If Auto Aim is nerfed, they may have even less success than they currently have.

These are just some things to keep in mind. I would look at stats of low damage ratio players before and after. Same with last gen console users.

It may end up being a case of the best get better and poor get poorer. Which could lead to more lopsided matches.

[muted epoch]

That is a good point.

Personally me. I can't actually understand how people use auto-aim to snipe. You usually have to aim ahead for long range combat making auto-aim not great for it. So is everyone thats getting sniped by auto-aim just...not moving? Like even at 100 meters if the target is moving relatively fast theres still a chance your shot will fall behind them. Auto-aim has its short comings and its upsides. I'd say its pretty balanced for WW2. CW is a different story. The shells move so fast in CW that it is really viable to only use auto-aim at the higher generations (Gen 2.2 up mostly) like you aren't going to be cross map sniping a moving target but still. Its far easier to just RBRT in CW, but thats kinda in par with the game mode. Its the "fast" game mode.

Personally I use auto-aim to get my gun centered on the target, and aim in myself for a better shot.

[grim oracle]

When can we expect the upcoming changes to skills and all that?

[muted epoch]

We still have no idea. Changes to the "problem premiums" are coming this 16th

[compact gale]

Maybe next round of premium nerfs will be targeting cw there's definitely a few tanks that come to mind

[raven pebble]

Well some of those issues will be in a way changed when the new skills and equipment update comes in.

[edgy bronze]

All these changes only seem to help the unis of the game and giving all the other players just another reason to quit .

[west orbit]

Afaik winrate and dpg have gone up since 6.0. If anything this hurts, them

[edgy bronze]

Nerfing auto aim will definitely benefit super unis as they mostly aim their shots but the average Joe who plays for fun relies on it . What im trying to say is a lot of players especially cw players might just leave altogether .

[mental socket]

At the same time, auto aiming also leads to alot more bounces since it just aims for centre of mass. So, to a degree, having to aim at longer rangers or looking down sniper view is going to increase you chances at longer distances. Surely, players having to aim at longer ranges is a better thing as it lead to less bounces and at the same time is teach a player, new or old, where to aim to. Auto aim at the same time doesn't account for lead on a living vehicle.

At this stage of the game life it wont really lead to alot of players leaving. Some may leave, but at the same time, those that have left might start to return. Its another test on stiff anyway so I may end being removed or increase. Unfortunately Live server is always going to be a testing ground for things like this.

[raven pebble]

A tool that can be used by anyone is an advantage for no one.

[raven pebble]

Something that i don't make sense of, is why nerf auto aim if accuracy equipment and perks are going to be nerfed anyway?
But is just a test, so we will see.

[stray sentinel]

I click my Controller constantly as I move forward in both modes because I don't see tanks well at all since Build 6.0. You can't shoot at what you can't see.

[raven pebble]

Why can't you see tanks?

[edgy bronze]

Yeah i do the same , if you can auto lock it then you know you can hit it , then depending on circumstances either snap shot or aim in manually after locking on .

[muted epoch]

Well whatever it is. I feel like all these changes will negatively effect the casuals of this game. My worries is. What if they leave? Warthunder is on every platform. And unlike warthunder we barely have new players coming in daily.

[raven pebble]

WT is a lot less Casual than WOTMA tho.

[muted epoch]

WOTMA?

Oh wait. Full name. Right. I've always just called it wot.

[raven pebble]

Well can't fully blame you, the game changed name several times, i sometimes still call it WOT CONSOLE XD

[stray sentinel]

Since Build 6.0 they are harder to see for me, I have red/green colour blindness. The graphics were easier to see thru with build 5.0. However I had also developed a habit of clicking because of the "invisible tanks" in WWII mode. Whether you Camp or push if there is nobody in front of you, you're basically blind. Is there 1 tank not rendered or 4, just waiting to nuke you? I click and cross my fingers. In 2025 there are fewer tanks in front.

[muted epoch]

But yea. WT may not be as casual. But even if they don't go to WT. They won't play a game that isn't as fun anymore. I'm just worried if people do leave. We won't have newbies to replace them. Just the already terrible bots.

[raven pebble]

Ah the outlines, yeah the game needs improvedf Outlines i do agree with that.

[stray sentinel]

I'm getting use to Bots out spotting me.

[timid solstice]

Thank goodness it's on the roadmap

[raven pebble]

There is World of tanks HEAT, and on the horizon... and other game, but outside of that, depending on autoaim is not good to depend on, is a tool that helps, but not a tool to depend on, also i would love a test of the new equipment/skills but that will be fixed and balanced on the run when released.

[raven pebble]

Yeah the improved outline is sure a needed quality of life improvement.

[muted epoch]

I would love a test instead of just throwing it into the game. Like a test the whole community can do. Not just a small group

[raven pebble]

Problem is that it is a huge change, is not just a gravity or speed test, is a hole system, with all that implies.

[muted epoch]

I doubt such a big change will go without consequences. Especially since its WG. When changes happen usually about 20/25%~ don't like it.

[raven pebble]

Personally i am intrigued, i really want to see and experiment with it, at the moment the game is pretty stale for me and something new that is not a Tank like that is slightly different but the same would be interesting.

[tame forge]

You have no idea how many new players either game gets, so a bit of a random assumption to present as reality

[tame forge]

It you mean auto aim change it literally is a test, 1 week only

[uneven marsh]

Keep the accuracy

[muted epoch]

I do not. I meant the equipment changes. Not the auto-aim changes.

[elfin badger]

copypaste of my post

good changes

• merging situational/redundant skills and equipment are an amazing call. i almost never would have used the things that will become final stand/ reinforced internals on their own, but now it actually feels worth putting on multiple setups.
• new skills/equipment are mostly situational, but offer actually useful bonuses with vehicles that have unique mechanics. (unguided rockets, rotary cannons, etc.)
• the removal of rapid loading is good. almost the entire vehicle roster has seen dpm buffs over the last couple of years, and basically having 2 10% boosts to your reload was way too strong and made games feel much faster.

meh territory

though, not everything hit the mark. and a few of the changes feel a little bit like overcorrections.

• nerfing both advanced camo and camo expertise is understandable, as having a new equipment slot needs more “filler” options. however, the problem comes with tanks that rely on camo might now have to use 3 slots just to get their concealment back to workable levels after the nerfs.
  i suggest that since advanced camo will be nerfed by half, maybe bundle it with low-noise for a more meaningful bonus. if that’s too strong, scale down the camo bonus in motion to 45%-50%. that way the equipment will actually offer a substantial bonus, which is the whole point of equipment.
• nerfing advanced loading while also removing rapid loading seems a bit unnecessary. i think it should still provide a 10% bonus.
• i’m kind of 50/50 on tracks having their speed buff removed. having an additional 7.5% bonus to terrain resistance is great, but nerfing the speed bonus to 5% would have been fine.

[wispy umbra]

The main reason rapid loading is getting removed AND loader is taking a hit is probably because basically everything reloads faster than pre 6.0 anyways

I genuinely can't think of many vehicles that haven't had a reload buff since outside of maybe the ELC even 90

[devout bramble]

E 75 TS / Rodger Doger

[wispy umbra]

Thought that was buffed with legends reforged

[grim oracle]

Won't autoloaders be insanely nerfed by the equipment and skill changes?

[sharp timber]

No they have intra

[wispy ruin]

Yes and no. Their reloads will be significantly longer, but the intra clip remains the same so it will diversify gameplay between autoloaders and single shot guns much more.

[north valve]

Well think about it single shots are being nerfed by about 20% when it comes to their dpm, rammer 10% => 5%, removal of rapid loading 10%, food and BiA change another 5% off your dpm. But autoloaders can't mount rammer so for them it's only 15% increase in reload. So some might argue that autoloaders are getting buffed indirectly.

[west orbit]

Reload buffs don't affect intra either so they're even less affected, especially stuff with long intra like the Mino, Rino, T58

[wispy ruin]

Mino gonna go crazy

[west orbit]

T58 gonna be nuts. Can't 2 for 1 it any more

[sharp timber]

Yha can't wait to hear complaints on t58 even though you can easily pen turret.

I have mine 2 marked.

[sharp timber]

Also side note the Highlander gains usefulness now.

[uneven marsh]

Look on the russian tanks alot are going to be useless

[leaden star]

Is there a refund for any skills being removed ?

[timid solstice]

you get the slot back yes

[muted epoch]

I mean. Thats not really a refund.

[wispy ruin]

A refund for what? lol you keep the slot and pick a different perk.

[leaden star]

Dawg I’m jus trynna get more free xp 😂

[leaden star]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-spare-change-spare-some-change-begging-poor-gif-18999842

[wispy ruin]

💀

[muted epoch]

Gimme my free XP! Lol

[crimson mango]

I’ve got more than enough 9 skill commanders. And I approve of this message..

[spring swan]

If I can remember rightly the reason for the upped skills was because of the neutering of the commander skills you could obtain and some skills went over to buff equipment when 6.0 came in
Just wondering if your gonna make more slots from 9 to 12 as it stands it feels like a punishment with some skills nerfs

[devout bramble]

They are in effect giving at least 1 skill slot via 6th sense removal and build in.

A great way to tick off a playerbase would be to expand to 12 after previously chopping everyone down who had 12+ and then tell them to grind out again. Not only would the xp amounts be insane it would destroy any trust to build anything in the game—particularly anything that takes time.

[raven pebble]

Yeah essentially most had 8 skills and 3 equipment slots, now is going to be actual 9 skills and 4 equipment slots, more room to attack a specific set or niche, or to give more agility to a build.
Some skills are still going to be irrelevant, (anything that adds if you are at 10% hit points is irrelevant) but others will be a lot more usable.

[hoary carbon]

No additional slots are being added.

[stray sentinel]

Can we have at least 12 please?

[ivory surge]

If we were to ever get additional slots I think 10 would be best instead of 9

9 is just a weird/odd cap to have and 10 is a good whole number that allows for some little bit more flexibility without being overbearing

[wispy umbra]

Remember that on top of rapid loading being removed and sixth sense being made a passive on all commanders various other skills are being combined

We'll be getting more out of the same slots regardless

[opaque vapor]

I see major incoming issues. I think over all, the changes at first make sense. The removal of steady aim and rapid loading is the nerf arty needs. So WW2 might get better, but likely not, people will just shift to more accurate arty.

Nerfs to camo, RE; CW, id say they are needed. But just like the speed test, very heavy handed changes. And just like the other update nobody at WGing will ever admit happened. Not very well thought out.

Yes the crutch tank that is the elc, is just horrid. Its stupid, needs nerfs. But changing the whole game to nerf 1-5 problem tanks, there is a sollution to that. STOP PUTTING IN BROKEN TANKS

there is nothing wrong with something strong/weak, but proxy range concealment with 1k alpha? Wow what were wging smoking

but the changes, destroy camo. Id say its ok for the mediums in CW, exactly where it is. As for the ontos, id not nerf it less than 100m and if its above 150, fully equiped, il be asking for a refund on that one

any where between 100-200m SC equiped for a missle tank is sensible. ANY less than 220, not usable.

Over the other side of things in WW2, il question steady aim. So everything before 6.0 that wasnt Meta, steady aim leveled the field for them. But it kills... The t20 for starters, it wont shoot straight, add the chines and russian tanks to that list. (The whole dam tech trees)

and everything post 6.0 was given with steady aim in mind, so without they wont shoot straight either.

so, include CS63, Centuro, Murat

Im putting out a few predictions there, but one is not a prediction, ^^^you didnt think of all that wging did you^^^

[rotund marsh]

Its a combination of too many nerfs and wargaming being too heavy handed that will ruin the game's balance.

The removal of steady aims 10% accuracy a paid for perk btw is unnecessary when you factor in the removal of 20% accuracy from stabs everything is going to be 30% less accurate try removing the 20% first.

As it stands a lot of tanks will need rebalancing severely. I vaguely remember stabs gave 10% accuracy and snakebite was 5% pre 6.0 so 15% if that's the case you should first try reverting to the pre 6.0 stats rather than going overboard.

Camo nerfs were needed in cold war not so much ww2 outside of a few tanks yet the desolation of camo affects both cold war likely only needed a nerf to smokes camo the camo skills nerf was unnecessary.

the removal of silent driving skill slot for an equipment is stupid equipment has too much pressure arbitrarily deciding to stick more pressure onto it means you take away player choices add the skills as equipment by all means but leave the skill in the game to give players the freedom to choose how they want to set up

[opaque vapor]

I hate i only think about my own garage. I can only speak of what i have experience of. But yes i agree. It savages the ontos. With little consideration to what it needs. Lights in CW wont just have worse camo. Its worse camo that takes everything to go camo and then the choice is camo OR speed

[rotund marsh]

We will have 4 camo equipment slots net and concealment are interchangeable probably not taking both silent driving muffled shot are useful as perks not so much as equipment so were down 2 camo skills.

The camo skill itself gets nerfed into borderline pointless to have territory

they claim these change is to give us more build options and take away mandatory choices like steady aim rapid loading.

Yet the other camo changes don't do this at all they weren't particularly great except in niche situations yet by making them equipment they've made them almost impossible to take at all its removing player choice completely the opposite of what the stated goal is.

[opaque vapor]

just nerf everything and then buff everything else that wasnt a problem? Is that what they going for? Its how they killed the PZ 5/4

Missles realistically are best around 300m. By the time that missle lands a wiesel could be just on you. It does cripple the elc, and it needs it. But yes 4 slot for camo, is ott. Because if you wanted any amount of camo, you couldnt take speed.

Bit soon to be nerfing the elc, i thought they would sell it 3 times again 1st.

zzzz, l8ters

[tame forge]

snakebite skill IIRC was impact on turret rotation, not accuracy in general. So basically how much your gun bloomed when moving the turret. Useless for some tanks, amazing for others. For the vert stabs, i think the change is wording only, i'd need @hoary carbon to confirm but i think the issue was that when the equipment was changed it's wording was misleading and now it's being corrected officially.

[mental socket]

Yeah, even the inital working made it sound like actually accuracy, but as you say, it was probably referring more to accuracy during rotation.

[rotund marsh]

I apparently got censored for correcting petty on the snakebite skill you can watch this video from when it released where it explains how it worked on release https://youtu.be/nMtKTkTW4pA?si=yE3-YSLzt-C2bf2i skip to 4:37 where he reads it out

[rotund marsh]

-5% dispersion is accuracy

[tame forge]

1. HA, seeing a ben vid linked... don't see that every day 😄 i should let him know. We still talk 🙂 (he recently got married!)
2. I think i stand corrected, i remembered the gunners accuracy bit but searching some documents it does appear that it was a flat dispersion improvement, although that word can mean accuracy or sigma? So maybe something Max would know as he was staff at the time, i was just a player for another like 5 years after that launch lol

[rotund marsh]

As for Stabs it was adding 20% to everything they're removing that so we get -30% to accuracy in one sweeping change

[tame forge]

yeah i was right but wrong on that one too, aware of what the website said. I knew there was a wording issue but couldn't remember which way around it was. That one is kind of a bug thing and not a change though. That's how it use to work and it's going back to that state. It's just the middle period where it did more/different than it should

[mental socket]

STABs originally they said didn't effect accuracy when people first questioned it. Then with this came out and said, oh yeah it was buffing accuracy when it should have. Personally, Steady aim, never should of been a skill as.

Really, the guns should never have been this accurate from the 6.0 changes and is only now being addressed. Guns going back to their base accuracys isnt going to do much to the lower calber guns. Its only bigger guns with worse inital accuracy that will be noticeable. But that can be tweaked by buffing base stats or handling of the gun where need be.

[raven pebble]

It is planned to be added this year?

[tame forge]

i hear if you give @orchid viper enough blobby gifs she may tell you, but this is just a rumor

[orchid viper]

Don't tell them this, I'll never catch a break again

[raven pebble]

I will do you one better.

[raven pebble]

Here one Date please.... Wait release date XD

[opaque vapor]

I think Bad man was trying to make the point. People paid money for the snake bite skill. And although i personally dislike these mechcanics. People still paid. When it was swapped with steady aim, nothing was said. The sollution is just dump X times 2k gold(?) in peoples accounts. Then nothing gets said this time. These guys that did this are Your OG customers, people with more money than sense - make them happy

[young pumice]

Can we have new crew skill lower RNG rolls by 2.5% like PC.

One Shot Deathblow. 99% chance of Finish off tank with hp less than your gun damage include rng rolls ....no more reduce to 1 hp bs.

[devout bramble]

That reduce to 1 thing was previously a “display bug” years ago but I have noticed it has reared its ugly head again after so many years and there is nothing display about it. Way too many players suddenly having 1hp.

[wispy umbra]

Bad luck is a thing

[final trout]

I agree camo skills / equipment are going to be hit hard, but it should force tanks relying on camo to take more care, rather than sit out in the open and fire with impunity. For example, tanks will need to use vegetation more purposefully and be more conscious that of their detectability when firing / moving. This will change the meta away from high camo tanks, as they will become more difficult to play consistently well.

[empty talon]

I am looking at the effort involved in reviewing and re-specking 900 commanders on 850 tanks. If it takes 3 minutes per tank and 5 minutes per commander, that’s 116 hours of effort. Will we need to rinse/repeat when a new batch of equipment/skills is released? Work faster you say? At 1 min/tank and 2min/commander that is still 44 hours. What am I missing?

[devout bramble]

lol I think I still have some from 6.0 not fully skilled out though elite. 😱

[empty talon]

Same here. Maybe WOTMA should extend the re-specking period and equipment sale until ALL changes on their side are completed

[devout bramble]

The skills I think I will be ok maybe?—just have to fill in holes mostly. The equipment will affect that maybe though and will be a big look through itself as I have leaned more toward unusual tanks the last few years.

Maybe as they introduce the other skills they were planning later, there will be a free week or something.

[timid solstice]

Saw in the stream recap that camo expertise and gun rammer were going to be going up to 7.5% instead of the previous number we were given. I can't speak to how much the changes camo but on gun rammer I think it's super unnecessary to bring back up to 7.5%. It already would have remained in most loadouts at 5% and I expect it will still be considered a "mandatory" piece of equipment at 7.5%

I simply find it hard to believe that in supertest the 5% nerf was enough to make everyone not only swap it out in some builds but that it was so underused that it needed less of a nerf

[muted epoch]

What's wrong with there being a go too build?

Like. I don't get it. No matter how hard you try. Something will always be the best to bring.

Plus. With the equipment we have. There can be plenty of load outs made. All of the increased durability ones are just kinda useless because...nobody really has their parts demolished that frequently. Can't even recall the last time my engine broke.

I think what I'm saying is. Try as you might. There will always be a "meta" build that people will always flock too

[timid solstice]

Indeed, and what I am saying is that I think 5% was close to a balance point where on certain builds I would swap out rammer. At 7.5% I'm not taking it off anything.

[ivory surge]

That 5% to loading speed would have been next to nothing
You'd be better off running almost anything else on most tanks than just an mere 5% increase
That's like what...a 0.3 second reload increase at best?
This is also going to be effected by both rations and born leader being nerfed
Really that 5% was so low you'd be better off not using it

7.5% is fine but imo rammer shouldn't have even been touched cause of the removal of rapid loading and both rations + born leader getting nerfed to half their effectiveness

[muted epoch]

True. Lets take a 10 second reload. Add rammer. 9.5. Absolutely smashing buff. Game breaking even.

[timid solstice]

.45s on something like a Leo 1 still kind of important even at 5%

I could see it being harder to notice in something like CW but in WW2 that's still rather significant.

[muted epoch]

Not really? At most rammer itself may take a second and some off of a 20 second reload.

Anything under 10 seconds won't really feel it all that much

[ivory surge]

That's without born leader, vents, and rations

[timid solstice]

OK let me put it another way. Is a 2.5% decrease enough to make you drop rammer on your tanks?

[ivory surge]

All those aside from vents is getting nerfed
At best you would only be having a +15% to reload speed if you have all of those equipped this coming update
A +5% crew increase means +2.5% to gun reload speed

So with new rammer being 7.5% and all the others being combined to 7.5% you'd only get a maximum +15%

If it was 5% it would be +12.5%

[sharp timber]

Sad part is marks are going to be harder and not be adjusted because of these changes.

[ivory surge]

Maybe?
Idk it may actually be easier to some degrees because matches will in theory be longer - by like a minute or 2

[muted epoch]

Still don't like these changes entirely. Feel like they are going to go live and everyone is going to hate the..

[sharp timber]

I mostly see y'all on front lines in cw if your not able to deal enough damage fast enough even with your clan how they position means they will be overrun and eventually killed and not having the same amount of damage you used to do.

[sharp timber]

I haven't seen the proposed and already know it's going to be bad.

[muted epoch]

Like. For example. The auto-aim tests...that got a lot more attention when I was actually tested. This thread looks tiny compared to that.

[crimson mango]

this change was bad I i was using auto aim because I have bad vision and now the game is unplayable

just keep catering to super uni and you'll kill the game

[sharp timber]

Most our tech trees and premiums are built around the current system in place....

[muted epoch]

Once this goes live a lot of players are actually going to notice. And quickly come here to voice their opinions

[crimson mango]

they crybaby unis get there way again as usual

[muted epoch]

Oh I hate that type of talk.

[sharp timber]

Yup and you'll have more blowouts due to hull down meta tanks with accuracy changes

Can't wait to see 7 bots/teamates get farmed by hull down tanks

[muted epoch]

Uni this. Uni that. Technically I'm a Uni. Try not to group us up into one batch please.

[sharp timber]

Uni here and against any changes

[timid solstice]

We have a high prevalence of HE tanks/TDs on console, hulldown meta just won't happen

[crimson mango]

oh thank god bro cause its as if they forgot majority of playerbase are veterans with disabilities or visual problems

[sharp timber]

I know elderly and others have disabilities and I know they make up a portion of the current playerbase....that's like ripping away your wheel chair or dog that helps you get everywhere away when you've been using it for years...which is rude.

Why take auto aim when it was here to begin with like what ......

[ivory surge]

I do also really think that steady aim should be kept and run gun + snap shot be removed

[muted epoch]

Oh most certainly. Removing more perks like that on top of a new auto-aim limit will be heavenly

[ivory surge]

Snap shot and run n gun just stack onto the steady aim and removing both of them would make steady aim less problematic and free up 2 skill slots automatically

[muted epoch]

Indeed!

[autumn halo]

In theory, they should be the same difficulty weeks after the change, if not easier for certain tanks

[sharp timber]

In coldwar where certain tanks are 10-13k combined how is that gonna be easier if you have less dpm.

Also might I add accuracy taking a hit as well.

[autumn halo]

The mark value will decrease after the changes to live

[sharp timber]

We don't know that unless they specifically say so just like the buffs to tech tree tanks in cw that are yet to happen for two lines and other underperformers.

[autumn halo]

If dpm goes down, people will do less damage on average, thus causing the mark value to go down. I hope this helps

[sharp timber]

Yha doesn't help because I still have to wait for the requirements to go down.

[autumn halo]

I never said otherwise, you just didn't fully read my original message

[sharp timber]

Yes I did but I still have to wait for people to play badly to lower the requirements that's not wargaming changing it.

[autumn halo]

You have to wait, which I said, and I said in theory they shouldn't be harder, which you disagreed with

[hollow verge]

Is this a typo ? Says "returned equipment" but old binos was 25%

[ivory surge]

Yeah some are returning but it in nerfed state

Like Jack of all trades

[hoary carbon]

It is a returning equipment.

[compact gale]

I do wonder if this will be day1 of next season or like halfway through it

I hope day1 personally

[hollow verge]

So it's 25% or 15%?

[hoary carbon]

15% as the article mentions

[wispy ruin]

Should be 25% imo. No reason to run binos over optics for a 5% difference especially if it does not stack with optics. At most that is 21 meters extra at the cost of remaining stationary.

[raven pebble]

Is not for all tanks, and some remain stationary a lot.
It makes sense that it is not super high given that you don't want to also have mega vision issues now.

[wispy ruin]

It would still be a niche pick, but at 15% it is too niche.

[raven pebble]

In combo with other pieces you can still make it higher, not optics but with rations and vents, is not a bad deal.

[wispy ruin]

That doesnt matter. You cans still run those things with optics and get the same result. The % is additive, not multiplicative. You It is still a 5% difference regardless of what else you run

[devout bramble]

Wasn’t it 20 percent or just the description incorrectly said 20 percent? Or it said 25 percent and gave 20?

[wispy ruin]

25

[devout bramble]

Ah yes—there was a description error in game at one point like from the beginning for a long time.

[hollow verge]

I mean for ww2 camouflage net values are double what improved concealment. So binos should be at least 20%

So it's double what optics gives

[raven pebble]

Now you are cooking, that is more BALANCED

[hollow bolt]

How about we change the swap amo from an equipment to a skill, but we don't get the 100% skill capability and around 90%. I like how the pc can do it, and I know it's a bit difficult because we can't select what type of shell to change to.

[young pumice]

Camo nerf indirect to French wheels with poor view range something wg need to look at

[devout bramble]

You get 4 equipment slots now so shouldn’t be as much of an issue as equipment.

[hollow bolt]

Fair enough, I forgot about that 😂

[wispy ruin]

A skill like intuition would be more skillful. Instant swapping is pretty op for high alpha guns. Also even with 4 slots it will be hard to justify running it on lower alpha guns that have good HE.

[west orbit]

Hard to justify running it or not running it?

[wispy ruin]

Running it?

[elfin badger]

i think the damage reduction equipment/skill should be changed. removing the skill and giving the equipment a 10% increase to health instead would be much better and more useful. one of my biggest pet peeves with the current system are skills/equipment that provide almost no bonuses, especially one you can’t see the effects of until you actually get hit.

[sage forge]

4 weeks to try out commander skill changes(at no cost/charges) is fine, but only 50% reduction in equipment cost after equipment changes go into effect at the big update/reset for new season? this is one the main issues I had with the proposed QOL changes to the game, tbh!😒

[wispy ruin]

Instead of a discount, they should just make it so that you can sell equipment for full price imo

[wispy umbra]

Did I miss this? Seriously I can't find it anywhere

[mental socket]

Said on stream, no article backing up what was said as per standard norm. Same witht he proposed changes stating the next proposed values for certain equipment or stuff being with held.

[wispy umbra]

Ah fun. But are the changes being pulled in with the season change?

[wispy ruin]

yes

[wispy umbra]

[ivory surge]

all details will come monday

[mental socket]

As is the norm and something I still very much despise . Annouce bigger info to then follow up with no article addressing it which makes it difficult at time to answer people's questions

[west orbit]

And love the blind change for muffled shot which could completely break TDs depending on how it works

[mental socket]

Skills and breaking tanks?? No never not like a 35% improvement is massive or anything that could potentially mess the calculations on the tanks firing penalty or anything

[wispy ruin]

It works the exact same as the skill, no?

You lose so much camo when firing that it is pointless anyway (as it should be)

[autumn halo]

I once suggested they release articles earlier. Got hit with the classic "We don't do it so players aren't overloaded with info."

[west orbit]

They said they're changing it. Idk it was in zorin's summary of the stream

[wispy ruin]

Pretty sure the change was just making it an equipment piece rather than a skill

[autumn halo]

They said Flash Hider was useless and they're changing it but no mention of how

Like 90% confident that happened

[west orbit]

"Flashhider will no longer affect the after shot factor and instead affect the amount of camo lost, and thus will now be noticeable." This is what Zorin put in the summary

It sounds like literally nothing is changing based on how I know the skill works but it was there

[wispy ruin]

Hmm so if a tank has a camo factor of 10% but drops to 1% when firing, currently the 35% effect of the skill is a buff to that 1%? So you would have 1.35% camo I guess.

After the change would you then have ~4%?

[mental socket]

Half the player base dont even read the notes so I dont get where they get that from. Stating stuff on stream and then having nothing to back it up isnt great as it can lead to stuff being mislead or explained incorrectly once people start asking questions about it.

[autumn halo]

Welcome to the club. That's what they said and it was horrible 😂

[mental socket]

I mean this is really where stating it and actually having an example showing whats meant by it would be helpful to understand for any players looking at the skill. But instead you have to dig for answer and for the better example far to many times.

[devout bramble]

Muffled shot is essentially going back to what it was like before and early 6.0 save for the “description” change post 6.0 and I guess becoming equipment.

[west orbit]

And the official response is "we're not cleared to release details yet"

[west orbit]

It's always been useless on anything bigger than 100mm

It's where the bonus applies in the formula

[wispy umbra]

You know a skill that REALLY needs love? Iron mace

[west orbit]

Maybe WG is doing it where the bonus applies to your whole camo after firing instead of just the firing penalty

[devout bramble]

Eh better than others.

[west orbit]

35% reduction of a 200m penalty is different than a 35% reduction of 400m camo after firing

[devout bramble]

It just doesn’t have a place really. That’s why it was lumped in.

[west orbit]

But camo lost is firing penalty so I dont understand the language used

[wispy umbra]

It's only good on tanks with high pen drop off and there's like 12 total. God knows the E4 doesn't need it

[devout bramble]

Maps too small 😉

[mental socket]

Honest to god mess as per norm. For you to then hound and hound the same staff member to eventually be told what it is. I really dont get how hard it is to have someone give even a brief example on how its going to work.

This is the base value, this is the value then after when this other part is added. Yes it affected when this factor is involved but not this one.

[west orbit]

Maybe it's like camo where it says a % but it's actually a flat change. 35% is 85m flat

[wispy umbra]

Don't even

I could go on a 3 hour rant about just the E4 and penetration lost over distance

[autumn halo]

@mental socket

Background info for your complaint 😂

[mental socket]

My only guess is it the increase from the base stationary camo to then what the camo is after you shoot. So if after firing the camo usually increase by say 100 metres, thats when the flash hider reduction comes in? Honestly, gonna be easier to pester someone to dig the information out on it on a frequent basis then ask once and wait for the 2 year delayed responce.

[timid solstice]

I'm too overloaded! 🤯

[mental socket]

Right.... 🙄 Doesn't really help for situations like this though that never get answered or we just get the most blunt responce that explains nothing.

[timid solstice]

But fr, patch notes should be able to be released well before the season start. The changes they are making should be long decided by now and early release would allow actual feedback before implementation. They did alright with this one but obviously there are questions and changes since the last article that should be in writing on the website

[devout bramble]

Nah just wait until the description is changed and everything you knew was wrong. 🙃

[west orbit]

That's already where the calc comes in. The problem is that the camo penalty is brutal. A 140 firing has the same camo as a moving IS7

And it's in a different place than other camo buffs

[wispy umbra]

So. It's WoT doing WoT things

[mental socket]

Its honestly my only guess on it as it makes no sense in that part of the calculation. Especially with Zorin marking its not the firing penalty. Honestly id break my arm again for them to actually start giving working examples for things like this. Has been an honestly gripe for years on years.

[hoary carbon]

Flash hider changed from reducing the "at shot" factor by 35%, to reducing the camo lost while firing by 35%.

An example:

• Shooting your gun caused you to lose 357.45m worth of camo, with flash hider, you'd only lose 232.34m with of camo.

[sage forge]

quick @Twitch stream reference when the new season was introduced. I went on the @WOTModernArmor website & watched the @YouTube vid on #DarkRealm & that's where it says 4 weeks of free commander respecs & 50% off equipment sales.🧐

[west orbit]

Can you give a practical before and after example to quantify the change for us? SU130 or grille 15 maybe? As is we have no idea what firing camo and our only indication is the camo circle on the map

[hoary carbon]

The example was an actual tank, I didn't give the tank name since we don't display the shooting factors.

[west orbit]

For that example then, what was the camo after firing with muffled shot?

[hoary carbon]

With muffled shot, the camo lost would have been 295.83m

[west orbit]

Thanks. Can you give a caliber range for the gun in question? Below 100, 100-120, 120-140, 150 and up?

[hoary carbon]

20mm gun

[sharp timber]

Is it really a discount?....that's a let down

[west orbit]

Ok thanks. Is it possible to get something in the 120mm range to see how it affects higher calibers?

[mental socket]

Could maybe do an example of a 90mm, 120 and 150 to get an idea across the board of the higher teir guns

[hoary carbon]

The examples wouldn't be very useful as every tank has its own values and the impact will be based on what all equipment/consumable/skills/etc on the tank.

The only real answer was the info I gave already which it what does, reduces the camo lost when firing by 35%

No matter the example, its 35% less now.

[west orbit]

Which we don’t have any way to know the values so it’s less useful

[hoary carbon]

Its ALOT more effective wih the change with how it works now then it did prior. If that isn't enough, then no information I gave will assist you.

[west orbit]

The end result still seems like it doesn’t make a big difference. Losing 200m of camo means almost every ww2 tank still gets spotted at max range

[hoary carbon]

Only if you aren't using it right. The tanks you'd use this are would be for stealth vehicles that are also utilizing environmental concealment.

Its not going to do anything if you're a heavy sitting in the open.

[west orbit]

Except environmental concealment is mostly all or nothing, not to mention a severe lack of information as to what constitutes heavy, medium, light foliage and the bonuses they provide

[hoary carbon]

Unsure what that has to do with what was asked. Lets not move the goalpost with every response.

I've explained what it does and given an example of it which is what was asked.

[mental socket]

So, in the end were going to see alot of people picking the skill, then because they might not know how the camo system works will fire, got spotted destroyed. Say the skill isnt then working.

[hoary carbon]

The change in equipment will not make someone who doesn't understand the camo system, suddenly understand it. That is unrelated to equipment and their benefits.

[west orbit]

Not a relevant example for high tier ww2 and not enough information to draw any relevant conclusion. Not to mention it’s a last second change with no feedback able to be given due to the severe lack of information

[hoary carbon]

The change was because that was the feedback and what players asked us to do in this feedback thread. It was player requested.

[mental socket]

And this is where the lack of putting information out there for people to look and relate to doesn't help at all. Of course people arent going to understand stuff when there so little of the game mechanic explained to them or provided the information for where they can look to.

So people can get the brief explanation and work of that, other wont full understand what it actually effect. Say a new player reads that, not really helpful to them and the lack of ovlther information or places to go makes it worse.

[timid solstice]

For example:
Idk how much bushes help camo when firing

Idk what my firing camo is

Idk what the difference between the "at shot" camo loss and and while firing camo loss are supposed to mean.

[hoary carbon]

As a player, its pretty straightforward. When you shoot, the amount of camo you lose is reduced by 35%. Nice, shooting is less likely to get me spotted. This sounds good for my stealth build so I'll mount it. Or, eh, I don't need any stealth, I'll pass.

That is as much detail as a player generally needs.

[timid solstice]

So if with flash hider we lose 232.34m camo on a 20mm tank with 200m camo are we still getting spotted at 432m? Like that's what a 13m firing camo change

[hoary carbon]

The game HUD will show you the impact during the match with the dynamic concealment indicator and will expand when you shoot to show you the impact of it.

[timid solstice]

And on a bigger caliber wouldn't this just mean we get spotted at max range regardless of flash hider?

[west orbit]

But it was ~20% in the above example and basically worthless in ww2 already

[west orbit]

Yes except “bushes” sometimes I guess

[timid solstice]

So it might only make a difference for a camo tank if you run it and sit in a bush...?

[west orbit]

Not to mention there’s a bush specific perk

[west orbit]

15m behind a bush actually

[hoary carbon]

For Muffled shot? Muffled shot did not directly reduce camo lost, it changed the at shot factor, so its impact was very low. The example was its more favorable impact. Normally it was only several meters of distance

Now you get 35% reduction, no matter the gun or tank. Its always 35% less camo lost

[timid solstice]

Is the value you used as an example for camo loss from firing additive to base camo or is that the vehicle's total effective camo when firing?

[hoary carbon]

It was the amount of camo lost from shooting

[west orbit]

I guess that’s fine though. I’d rather it be bad than good. Less invisible tds

It might matter for super high camo CW stuff I guess, ATGMs in particular

[hoary carbon]

The change made its more effective as that was the feedback. Players did not use it before because it was ineffective.

TD's are being impacted in other ways, such as all the reduction to concealment related items.

[west orbit]

It still seems ineffective in ww2 at high tiers with the values given I guess. Probably for the best

[wispy umbra]

Iron mace buff when?

Or maybe ramping up penetration drop off on specific tanks to make the skill useful

A certain obnoxious TD comes to mind

Just you know. Quintuple it's drop off

[wispy ruin]

Its already getting combined with deadeye.

[wispy umbra]

Yeah but the effect itself still isn't going to be useful whatsoever

[wispy ruin]

Yeah, but its a solution for a problem that doesnt exist. No need to make a problem.

[wispy umbra]

I just think that more than 4 tanks should meaningfully benefit from it

And that more than 4 tanks should have meaningful pen drop off

[devout bramble]

No one wants more pen drop off really. Just like no one really wants longer spot time in CW, just to introduce a perk. Let’s make the game worse to make an economy to make it better—said no one. Are we playing accountants or tanks?

It use to be that games had things as counters like rock, paper, scissors. Oh you have a tiny stealthy build, let me use my magic eye to counter that but makes me vulnerable to some berserker class.

[west orbit]

The spotting timer is a balance change for the proxy range light tanks that are constantly complained about

[devout bramble]

The light tanks haven’t been proxy spot only in years.

Besides the fact that they are already increasing the proxy range and dropping the camo.

[west orbit]

There are several Cw tanks that can reach proxy camo levels

[devout bramble]

You said lights. Lights have the same advanced concealment camo level as heavies.

[raven pebble]

I... what??

[west orbit]

lol what lol

[wispy umbra]

Mmmmmm. Suffering

[rain dock]

When I look at it all, it's all aimed at suppressing the light's playstyle - ambushes and ambush attacks. Slow reloading, poor accuracy and controllability. Many players play CW for its agility.

[raven pebble]

Not only that but also the Freedom True vision gives, you are less dependent on your team and can do things your own way with dragging less needed support, also the tanks in CW are very cool, even tho CW is not perfect is a very cool mode.

[tame forge]

Think the context there is that the info for the new season can be spread across 5-6 articles and so the articles spread out over several days rather than all at once. As often when a lot of articles come at once lots of people miss some, and if some are quite long they often miss parts of the info.

Not saying this would be the case for all but it 100% is a thing we've seen

[compact gale]

So I've been hearing conflicting information

Is the overhaul dropping with the season launch or is it later in the season

Some clarity on this would be nice

[tall kestrel]

https://youtube.com/shorts/2Z33wtm8ESs?si=AokAMta0lN3zQZOz

[mental socket]

QoL and equipment changes drop Tuesday. Not all proposed equipment or skills are going through (only a handle full, like the flame thrower skill isnt going through yet). Those skills will probably then be added part way through the next season or by the end of it.

[compact gale]

I see thanks looking forward to getting a lot of silver for target info refunds

[devout bramble]

Source?
Riki video gives me pause.

[tame forge]

@devout bramble

[delicate coral]

Can we have a turbo for our véhicule like on pc ? Giving us 20% boost and speed limit something like that ?

[ivory surge]

yeah riki was wrong it's all changes +additions (except a handful of the new skills) are coming on Tuesday

mustve been some confusion because right now theres only the season pass article up and not the full scope article that gives the season info of whats going in in the entirety of it

[mental socket]

Riki's video was probably based on the original article that WG provided weeks ago. Woth stuff being changed its like, say 90% accurate currently.

[muted epoch]

I am both excited and fearful. Wargaming has given me hope with these tests.

[raven pebble]

Yeah that is why i am just waiting for the launch article.

[compact gale]

It's honestly extremely annoying they dont drop the article immediately after the stream ends nah gotta wait till Monday for whatever reason

[grim oracle]

So what changes are coming on tuesday?

[autumn halo]

I think I forgot to suggest this before but can we merge Track Mechanic and Wheel Mechanic into 1 skill called Suspension Mechanic (or something similar)

[tall kestrel]

no

[wispy ruin]

Why though? Not like they would both work in a single tank.

[autumn halo]

So that you don't have to have a niche commander for 1, maybe 2 (if we get the british wheelies) tank lines.

[wispy ruin]

Fair I guess

[raven pebble]

I think they should worry about that when we actually get more wheeled tanks and the wheel mechanic gets implemented better in the game.

Not to dismiss your idea mind you, but we can put it in the To do list.

[raven pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/car-attack-gif-17041714682877993979

[autumn halo]

I'm not expecting it to come anytime soon. I just forgot to mention it before all these changes go live tomorrow lol

[raven pebble]

Better late than never 🫡

[radiant warren]

So rockets and missiles will get more effectieve compared to shells because they are not affected by accuracy nerfs, but you can make them better by using a new skill. Seems to be very balanced👍

[tall kestrel]

i love missiles

[devout bramble]

Think it’s been mentioned a couple times at least. It would be nice to merge the two.

Some would probably want to merge the flamethrower and Gatling gun skills though and then when WG releases that Gatling flamethrower all hell would break loose.

[crimson mango]

Great point