AAT60

[opal shore]

Commanders,

The AAT60 is one of the Tanks we're looking at for Premium Tank Changes - please let is know what you think about this Tank currently, and if you think it needs any changes

[outer thunder]

It feels like a better tier 10 medium than most tier 10 mediums. It's only "weakness" is its dispersion values and beyond that it can out trade, out dpm, out spot, out manuever, and even out brawl equal tier tanks.

It could definitely use a change and I'd say make it a tier 10 medium, buff it's health and view range to 390

[supple brook]

So the AAT60 is currently overpowered.

Why is this?
Currently, it has:
●An exceptionally strong cannon
●Effective armor even when engaging Tier Xs
●Very high mobility
●Benefits from TD camo bonuses.
It's overpowered because it's just good everywhere.

How can we go about changing this?
Well, I see a couple ways, but they all come back to the same core idea: stopping the tank from being good everywhere.
Here are two possible changes that could be made to reduce the effectiveness of the tank:
●Change 1:
●Reduce the alpha from 420 to 390
●Increase the reload to 11 seconds from 9.2 seconds
●Reduce the max speed from 67 km/h to 50 km/h
●Reduce the horsepower from 800 to 650
●Improve the accuracy during movement to 3.2 meters from 5.75 meters.
●Change 2:
●Reduce the alpha from 420 to 360
●Increase the reload to 10.2 seconds from 9.2 seconds
●Reduce the max speed from 67 km/h to 55 km/h
●Reduce the horsepower from 800 to 650
●Improve the accuracy during movement to 3.2 meters from 3.75 meters
●Reduce the overall effectiveness of the front and side armor to keep it more in line with Mediums of the same tier.

These are just my thoughts on what could be done to change it though. I'm not a big numbers guy, and the exact numbers I used in the two changes I brought up were done with quick comparisons to a few Mediums and Heaviums of the same tier. I'm sure there's statistically better ways to adjust this thing (inb4 Nate shows up to do some nerd stuff), but this is just my take.

[drowsy vapor]

Making it a tier 10 medium would be nice, then it doesn't get the camo net bonus

It's side armor also is way too thick for how fast it goes. Legit less than an IS4 by only 10mm

[outer thunder]

Basically becomes a side grade to the patton

[supple brook]

Also this honestly is a better option

Especially since it has pen comparable to quite a few Tier X premiums

[idle kiln]

Put it to t10 as medium and good is

It has a skill cap why they dont nerf nightstalker i mean this is trolling from wg

[lapis eagle]

Rarely scene even though available with free xp. Don’t think it needs a nerf—good Hellcat equivalent—particularly speed. Would like to see what the changes are on other 120 tanks that are getting buffed before you touch this one.

[edgy saffron]

Should be reclassed as a medium so it doesn't get as much of a benefit from camo bonuses

[shell tangle]

If the hellcat would have heavy like armor it would be a good comparison this thing hulldown is better than a Conq .
its is fast, has a good gun, and really good armor.
Too good for T9 give it 200hp more and a turret nerf and T10 it is

[random lantern]

I think it is alright. It needs some slight changes but the gunhandling is really not got. The Mobility is not really reachable with 18 ps/t. I think it would be alright with a lower plater nerf and a litte bit of dpm nerf

[idle kiln]

Its alright like it is and the skill cap is so high to play it the best

[warm panther]

Leave it alone.

[wet gazelle]

Make it a tier 10 medium.

Buff the accuracy and dispersion values. Increase hitpoints.

[lapis eagle]

Eh… We have plenty of tier 10 US mediums as is. We don’t need to lose high tier US TDs.

[drowsy vapor]

It more fits the role of a medium

[unborn yarrow]

Could turn into a tier9 premium medium 🤔

[wet gazelle]

Would need significant nerfs then

[unborn yarrow]

Well obviously it would need some massive changes but it could work

[lapis eagle]

Not hung up on roles. Hellcat and Charioteer go medium as well. I’d rather it not change classes as that is one of the reasons I acquired it, particularly for ops and US TD things.

[drowsy vapor]

Hellcat and Charioteer aren't really mediums.

Also, we can't not change a tank in a way that would benefit it and the balance of the game just because of what YOU wanted out of it. I guarantee the population who wouldn't be okay with changing it is very low

[lapis eagle]

And neither is the Draugen or Bourrasque then. 😜

[lapis eagle]

Ah you are the official poll keeper then? Why don’t you stick to simply expressing your opinion on the tank and not try to tell everyone what they must believe Mr. Pol Pot.

[drowsy vapor]

No, I've just used every form of social media that has a WoTMA group

[simple arrow]

Make it tier 10 medium, increase health and dispersion, and the truth is if you let it go hull down yeah it’s annoying but it really isn’t game breaking

[unborn yarrow]

I mean if it were to stay as a tier9 td how would yall suggest to nerf it

[outer thunder]

In basically every way. It would need to be slower, less armored, and lose a lot of dpm.

[simple arrow]

Horrendous take

[shell tangle]

Why ? its OP without a doubt

[simple arrow]

Not in the slightest compared to other tanks on the list, Avre, Taran? Just load gold or he and shoot at the turret it’s really not that hard to kill

[shell tangle]

Its like a T9 Hellcat with better armor on the turret than the conq and troll armor on the upper and lower plate .
If u move it up a tier and lower its armor on the turret it would be good not OP.
As it is now it has all mobility camo speed dpm (1450 shell velocity!) and armor thats just too much.

[queen grove]

HP to 1850, accuracy to 0.37, view range to 400m, change class to medium (optional), move to tier 10. You get a solidly armored tier 10 fast brawler. Even this might be too strong as a tier 10 tbh

[lapis eagle]

You realize that roof is only 35mm right?

[bold lagoon]

At last a downside: it is not immune against airplane bombardment

And frankly - this should be t10 med since a very beginning. A very good one

[lapis eagle]

I guess overmatch and HE is lost on you.

[bold lagoon]

i guess i also lost that it is common to drive around aat60 with turret roof angled good enough to be overmatched

[lapis eagle]

If you are driving around, yes. It sits kind of low. If you are ridge riding, almost all
the tanks have really good turrets, particularly if they have decent gun depression and you don’t sit there. (So you don’t nerf because turret face). Even then if you can get approximate equal height—opposing hill, you can still hit it—particularly with HE.

WG has actually flattened and pitched a number of hills so you have to climb up on top the hill and expose most of your tank though to shoot over—see Westfield C3 and Redshire in particular.

[bold lagoon]

Totally disagree.
The angle of the roof is so little it is almost never the case when you can really and reliably aim it. Most possible is when you are close to it driving higher tank. But how often it happens for a TD with a great concealment? Rarely.
This tank is OP in almost every possible way atm due to combination of its features. It needs either firm nerf or transfer to t10. The idea to make it t10 med is to at least drop its camo bonus for being a TD and keep it out of t7 tanks as it is being highly oppressive as a top tier.
I dont understand that sbd thinks this one is healthy for the game but I can respect such opinion. Please also respect mine: imo any opinion of letting it stay in current shape supports lack of balance & annoying TD meta.

[lapis eagle]

They should just remove the different class camo bonus, make it flat, and adjust all tanks camos accordingly.

This tank is not so stealthy as to render it invisible or particularly needing a nerf because it is so far out of bounds.

As far as the roof, given normalization and the general penetration level of guns at 3x, nearly guaranteed at very very flat degrees. Max says if it is 3x, it is automatic pen. But that is not how I read the mechanic from PC and I don’t have anything that defines it different, such that penetration power is still considered. It just may not functionally, given certain in game impreciseness, make a difference.

In any case, it would still be really overstated to say it has a better turret than the Conq.

[alpine pine]

Move to tier 10, reclass as a medium, lower alpha to 360-390 but keep the same DPM.

[lapis eagle]

Why does it need reclassified as a medium? People generally don’t like their tanks reclassified. They purchase classes for reasons.

[outer thunder]

It's a very clear all rounder with a gun comparable to tier 10 mediums, armor comparable to tier 10 mediums, and mobility in the top percent of tier 10 mediums. Simply it feels like a medium. It would also remove the TD camo bonus which would put It's new camo much more in line with other mediums of similar role/capacity

[lapis eagle]

It would then also have better moving camo as a medium. I don’t see an issue with having an all rounder TD as most US tanks are generally all rounders. There are plenty of tier 10 US premium mediums.

[queen grove]

Better armor than mediums

[outer thunder]

Also plenty of premium us tier 9 tds. Kinda irrelevant. The AAT60 simply fits the medium playstyle better, overperforms at tier 9, and the change would knock out its camo advantage.

[queen grove]

A weird argument for keeping it a TD at tier 10 is so that it doesn’t become another p2w comp piece

[outer thunder]

Yeah I could see it. Faster and better armored than the E6 just with a worse gun and camo.

[queen grove]

The e6 is for pushing, the aat would be for hull down poking

[lapis eagle]

Plenty of US premium tier 10s TDs? If there is plenty of TDs then there is 3x the plenty of mediums at tier 10.

At least at 10 or 9 there are not so many other TDs giving more variety of play style in a tier.

[outer thunder]

I said tier 9. And you are right, there are not many us tds offering the medium tank playstyle because they are tds, not mediums

[queen grove]

Slow it down a bit, 1800 hp, +20mm pen on both rounds, boom TD

[lapis eagle]

You edited. Plenty of TDs mimic medium play styles and plenty of mediums mimic TD playstyles.

[queen grove]

GP's got a point that the US is fully saturated on tier 10 mediums even if they're all kinda the same

[outer thunder]

Or keep the tank's gameplay loop intact and swap classes at a higher tier 🤷‍♂️

[queen grove]

It'd be on the overpowered side of generic if it were uptiered with only a HP increase. Hull down US tank with 420 alpha, decent speed and dpm

[outer thunder]

Yeah I agree it would definitely be nasty once in a position. But I'd bet the dispersion, poor view range, (and if not adjusted) the camo would hold it back a little

[queen grove]

The dispersions an interesting point. Another reason to keep it a TD so it doesn’t get stabs. Maybe buff the turret and make it a proper hull down brawler. The US doesn’t really have any of those

[outer thunder]

Kinda depends on how that skill/equipment rework go. I doubt that dispersion equipment/skills will be left intact

[sharp vector]

I just realized and we should wait for changes on avre, taran, 38h, aat60 after equipments, skills and consumption updates.

[graceful hound]

Increase its hit points and accuracy, chuck it up a tier and make it a medium

[brittle cradle]

For me AAT60 is very good but not OP.
It's rare and played by good player most of the time.
It's not a no brain tank like Avre, Nightstalker or Taran.
I hope balance won't destroyed it.

[outer thunder]

So to recap the changes shown on stream:
Tier 9 -> Tier 10
1650hp -> 1900hp
251mm standard -> 268mm
1450m/s standard -> 1478m/s

Health buff is fine but didn't need to buff anything else imo

[queen grove]

Yeah it seems like a pretty in line buff to bring it to tier 10. It already had the dpm. It's gonna be a solid tank, unique enough to fit

[unborn yarrow]

So it's staying as a td just getting up tierd

[lapis eagle]

They did not say anything about change in class but the pen is on the low side for TDs though strangely still higher than the Italian.

[queen grove]

Regardless of class it clearly is a tier 10 medium tank in stats and playstyle. It also has similar pen stats to other low caliber TDs at tier 10

[quartz patrol]

So after 5 week days its been changed, or rather moved. No more feedback required.

[scenic sandal]

Not really sure what the point of these feedback threads is when the decision has already been made

[rich nexus]

Feedback tells us if the direction we are going is the right direction or if we need to postpone the changes and adjust direction. That's generally the purpose of feedback.

[scenic sandal]

It’s hard to feel that way. Not trying to argue, but from my perspective, most see it as: “oh that’s nice, but anyway we are going to do this instead”

[lapis eagle]

Sounds like yet again they have already made the decision on AVRE and Taran…already have the changes set to deploy without any real feedback.

[idle kiln]

They allways work without Feedback its just Show they ignore everything

[rich nexus]

We had feedback threads asking what player wanted to see happen, then did a 2nd round of feedback on the proposed changes based on the feedback, then we finalized the changes as they were well received.

I'm unsure what you mean by there being no feedback as it was community driven decision based on the feedback players gave us.

[lapis eagle]

Max trolling on a Sunday afternoon? Replying to posts that are 16 days old and a week before you posted the feedback thread on the changes announced. And you implemented and “finalized” before the feedback as the thread is barely a week old.

[lost karma]

bumping up a tier didnt really do much except prevent it from bullying tier 7s

[lost karma]

t95e6 and m60 would immediately outclass them btw

[queen grove]

The bummer with the aat is that the 420 alpha 105mm changes and proposed skill changes came after the suggestions for changes were made

[drowsy vapor]

AAT60 is kinda mid now and should have reduced side armor for some gun handling honestly. And should be a medium

[lapis eagle]

Nah, needs to stay a TD. Have too many tier 10 mediums.

[queen grove]

A bit heavier on the armor is fine. I just wish it got a small accuracy buff. .39 is gonna be rough with all the accuracy nerfs

[drowsy vapor]

I'm not saying the armor needs to be super thin. But being only slightly thinner than an IS4 while having a top speed of 67 is kinda insane

[queen grove]

I mean that’s the niche I guess. More 420 alpha us mediums seem counterproductive though

[idle kiln]

This it he point i start to know you dont have even a Clue what u are talking about t10 meds are never too much