No more SPAAG's please.
#(NULL)
proven charm
novel pumice
No more SPAAG's please.
SPAAGs, wheels, and other niche mechanics are fine. In fact, the only instance to go wrong was the Vigilante, which is easily preventable.
plush dawn
We adding arty?
rough plover
Yeah the vigilante shouldn't have even been in ww2 to begin with
plush dawn
Then what is it
rough plover
The idea behind this is tanks that are HE slingers that can have either normal fire and arc (mortar) fire depending on shell speed
Limited capacity for those shells
rough plover
Relatively niche
Oh yeah and in mortar aim they can't see via true vision
Tanks have to be spotted for them to see in mortar view
That's a little caveat to their workings
proven charm
SPAAGs, wheels, and other niche mechanics are fine. In fact, the only instance t...
Not in my opinion. SPAGGs, by definition, are Anti aircraft vehicles. WOT doesn't have aircraft, therefore we don't need time, money and resources wasted on creating them. Apart from that they contribute to and encourage "spray and pray" game play. If they all disappeared the game would be better off.
novel pumice
Not in my opinion. SPAGGs, by definition, are Anti aircraft vehicles. WOT doesn'...
This is an arcade game, it doesn't matter what the definition is. They are fine, so long as they are done correctly. The Gau 8 is fine, the Shread Treads second gun is fine, the only problem was the Vigilante.
Removing those 3 tanks is not going to suddenly make the game "better off"
proven charm
This is an arcade game, it doesn't matter what the definition is. They are fine,...
Yes it's definitely an arcade game. 100%. But again, from MPOV, the game in 2025 is in a bad state. And it's not one or two things that need fixing /improving /removing to make it better/more enjoyable/playable, it's a lot of "little things". The introduction/promotion/selling of SPAGG's in both modes is just one of the little things.
rough plover
so the B-PS 101 A is teh first tank of this leopard line proposal
it is a variant of the indien panzer basically right out of the ww2 gamemode
all it needs is some porting over and some slight stat changes, same goes for the leopard prototype A
the B is a premium tank for the line, and the 100 and 102 are in another line that I'm gonna be proposing in the future (wink wink)
Kfpz 07 RH and the P are from ww2 and can also be ported over with some stat changed without issue
Matador
this is essetnially an early prototype of the Gepard SPAAG tanks
armed with two 30mm guns, low pen but very capable of dishing out some high damage in a short period of time if the shots were to pen
mobility would be less than the type 773 tho, so you gotta play it more passively
gepard 1a2
from le warthunder
the one in warthunder has some AA missles, but those shouldnt be included in game
gepard 1a2 has some slight upgrades over previous gepards, but this time it has the FAPDS-T rounds so the pen is better
mobility would leave much to be desired tho as it would be slower than the leopards in era 2 by a decent margin
Keiler ET.01
now for the start of one of my personal favorite lines I've made - the prototype leo 2 line
this is essentially a predecessor of the leopard 2 prototypes that was made as a proposed/tested upgrade of the leopard 1
the ET.01 was relatively barebones compaored to the ET.02 which was the 2nd "keiler" tank made
Keiler ET.02
this is a model of the 2nd version of it, this time armes with a 20mm coaxial gun, some extra bits on the turret, and a different 105 concept gun
this tank would hearken to the later designs of the leopard 2K and eventual made/serviced leopard 2s
KPz-70
looks familiar 
yes, this is the german version of the MBT-70 that we currently have in game
this time tho it is a tech tree and upgradable tank unlike the american premium version of the tank
earlier version of it with the hydropneumatic suspension working, and this tank would start the trend of hydropneumatic suspensions in the line
Leopard 2KF/2K
and the last 2 tank of the line are the leo 2KF and the regular leo 2K
taking aspects from both the keilers and the kpz-70, this is one of the prototypes that would lead to the eventual making of the leopard 2s we know today
2 versions of the 2K were tested, and per description from warthunder: "the Bundeswehr decided to re-use parts of this development in a series of vehicles nicknamed "Keiler", or "tusker". This resulted in two separate vehicles being prototyped and tested: The Leopard 2FK, which was armed with a gun/launcher system similar to the KPz-70's, and the Leopard 2K, armed with a smoothbore 105 mm cannon. The Bundeswehr declared the 2K as the superior design in 1971, and development of the 2FK was abandoned as a result."
tho the 105mm was tested, it would quickly be changed to the 120mm gun that we all know on the leopard 2s
so, the line from the keiler ET.01 to leo 2k goes -> 105mm -> 105mm/20mm -> 152mm/20mm -> 152mm/20mm -> 120mm/20mm
tho the 2KF could be a premium, there is another tank of the same general concept of it that is more "unique" than it that is more relagated and fitting to be a premium
Eber
some slight differences with the eber compared to the leo 2k
for starters, it is a lighter tank with 6 road wheels instead of 7, and is armed with a 120mm gun much like the final leo 2k
likely better traverse speeds as well due to weight change, and some slight ammo differences due to the year of the tank concept being made far after the leo 2k project
rough plover
HS.30
one of the first fully fielded/put in service tanks of the west german army
would be a basis for many future tank projects such as the raketens/jaguars and the marders
rough plover
Jpz 1-3
this is a TD variant of the HS.30 that would later be upgraded upon with the 1-4
essentially a stepping stone for the 1-4
1-4 stays as the top era 1 for the line
raketen 1
this is the beginning of the raketen/jagaur family of tanks with the introduction of ATGMS
beginning in era 2, we have the raketen 1 which is essentially a less mobile raketen 2 with no dual launchers in the beginning
but once fully upograded it has the mobility of the raketen 2
because it doesnt have the dual launchers, it would fire more cinsistently in a 15 second period instead of the raketen 2s 10ish seconf intra reload with 20 second full reload
because this tank replaces the raketen 2 that is currently a bottom tier, the raketen 2 gets bumped up to a mid tier era 2 with some buffed up stats to reflect the increasing upgreades and tier placement within the line
Raketen HOT
model from le warthunder
this is essentially a very early version of the jaguar 1 tank that we currently have in game
less overall stats than the jaguar 1, but thats so it fits nicely as a top tier era 2 within the mode
plus it is a great segway to the pinnacle jaguar tank of the line
Jaguar 1A3
tho very similar to the premium Jaguar 1 we currently have in game, this one does have the benefits of being upgradable to have some better mobility and reload than the premium version at the cost of not having a silver boost
another view of it
that large box you see on the top of the tank is the thermal imaging suite that was given to the jaguar 1A3s in 1995
Wiesel 1 HOT
one of the prototypes of the wiesel 1 that was tested with a new turret rig for scouting and offensive engagements with HOT launchers
2 HOT launchers on this wiesel
and lastly....the one
Wiesle 1 HOT/ATM (RMK-30)
this wiesel 1 has one HOT launcher and one RMK 30 recoiless auto gun
the auto gun has a small revolver holding a few rounds - essentially it would act like a FV107
the gun fires small apfsds 30mm rounds in quick succession at 300 RPM with an accounted some 110mm of maximum penetration
the carousel would hold less round than the fv107, but carry more rounds total and have a faster reload both intra and full
i initially wanted the last one to be the wiesel 1 HOT/20mm but i found the combination of the RMK 30 with HOT launcher to be far more interesting
oh yes, ammo capacity wise concept for these few tanks
Jag 1/1a3 = 30 ATGMs
Wiesel 1 HOT = 22 ATGMs
Wiesel 1 HOT/RMK 30 = 14 ATGMs/900 RMK 30 rounds
brave tiger
Interesting there's a multi weapon system candidate option for a weasel
rough plover
SPz 11-2
starting off the marder line, we got this funky thing
if you know the Spahpanzer 1C, this uses the same chassis as that but has the same turret/auto cannon as the HS.30
this tank would lead to the development of the marder prototypes
RU 261
one of the first ptotoypes of the marder, the 261 was deemed too small like other early RU prototypes and was thus scaled up some so that way it could fit more troops
RU 262
lookin much more like the marder now with the turret and rear turret, the 262 was not fully built as the concept for it would go onto the later 361 (363 is a typo i meant for it to say 361)
shut canyon
More wiesels just what the game needs
rough plover
RU 361
elongated and with a different turret more reminiscent of the actual marder 1 turret, this begins era 2 of the line
rough plover
doesn't have atgms, but instead has a long clip size with a bunch of 20mm ammo
more so than the era 1s
rough plover
Is that at bovington ?
idk
Marder 1a1 and bagel are unchanged in the line, but the marder 1a3 is uptiered to mid tier Era 3 to make way for the Marder 1a2
Marder 1A2
a more upgraded Marder 1A1 with the inclusion of more internal/external changes that would pave the way for the Marder 1A3
big external difference for the Marder 1A2 would be the removal of the rear machine gun as it was deemed redundant
this tank begins era 3 for the line, as is really just a suped up marder 1a1
unique radish
Plz enough with the weisels they have never been a good addition to the game stop asking for more.
rough plover
and lastly, we got the Marder 2 prototype
Marder 2
to finalize the marder line - Marder 2
only one prototype of it was made, but the concept is essentially an uparmored/up gunned marder ro replace the original marder 1s
it has the option for 2 guns - 35mm standard bushmaster gun or a 50mm Rh-503 cannon
both would be accompanied with a Milan launcher on the top of the turret that was not included with the built prototype
a model was made of it with what it would have looked like with the Milan launchers
and thats the end of the marder line
the next and final line for the German tech trees is the wheeled line
brave tiger
Marder2 looks cool so that would go as the tier3 era3 light
shut canyon
Plz enough with the weisels they have never been a good addition to the game sto...
Absolutely
brave tiger
Yall are just haters of anything involving atgm's or autocannons not everything will be op as weasel mk or pre arming distance weasel tow
shut canyon
Do you really think it’s a good idea to fill the game up with tiny tanks ?
rough plover
the ratio difference of conventional big tanks to tiny tanks is so large that it is a non issue
of all the lines ive made there are only like what...2 kinds of line like that?
so 2 out of...70 rows of tanks I have made
oh yeah its not 12 lines I have yet to send off its actually 12 nations I have yet to propose
so yeah, 2 out of roughly 70 lines would be small tanks 
shut canyon
I don’t understand why you want to bring more wiesels into the game
rough plover
because they're cool
and theres a lot of variants of the wiesel that are out there that I havent even listed
if anything I could have made a full wiesel line but i didnt want to do that because I wanted some variety within a line that eventually leads to end-of-line worthy wiesels
brave tiger
Is there a weasel 2?
brave tiger
Interesting
unique radish
Yall are just haters of anything involving atgm's or autocannons not everything ...
If you have ever seen my opinions that is false.
There are several atgm tanks that need buffs like the amx 13 and the gi joe tanks. No auto cannon tank besides the mk1 is that much of a problem.
However high camo and the best atgm like the elc and weisel I do see as too much. However im not saying the tow still needs a nerf. Just no more. Both have caused major problems in the game.
So dont lie and make stuff up to feel superior.
unique radish
because they're cool
Clearly cool is more important then the health of the game. I dont think there is a single tank that has been hated more then those weisels. The devs never do them correctly and always make them too strong with way too much HP. Thats more the issue not the tank but the implementation of said tank.
rough plover
health of the game does not concern me and should concern the devs
it is all up to them with how they implement the stuff they want and suggestions
i am merely throwing stuff out there for them to utilize if they so want it
if the wiesel tow and elc ss12 werent in the game everyone else would try to find some other scapegoat tank to label as their hated tank that "ruins the game," so it really makes no difference for me
the wiesel tow has been smaked back into a more balanced state and people are still complaining about it because...wiesel ig?
elc ss.12 and wiesel mk.1 are very much too dominant in their current state for era 2, but with proper balancing to them they would be perfectly fine
the state of a tank being "hated" in any which way does not concern me with my suggestions
much like as if I was gonna suggest pure artillery for cold war, the hatred for artillery does not concern me
unique radish
much like as if I was gonna suggest pure artillery for cold war, the hatred for ...
That definitely tracks with what your doing.
So I guess no real convo about why it shouldn't be in the game will happen.
At least without good balance like you said.
rough plover
exactly
unique radish
However I always thought one weisel with different turret options would be cooler.
rough plover
i am merely throwing stuff out there, nothing more and nothing less
unique radish
Many tanks in CW can have multiple turret options.
rough plover
At least without good balance like you said.
i would only advocate for the lines implementation if it were to be properly balanced
with how lines and new tanks have currently gone I think they get the memo with balancing tanks
unique radish
with how lines and new tanks have currently gone I think they get the memo with ...
Idk I have trust issues with these devs.
Small tanks should have less hp and they dont do that for their high selling premiums ever.
Only poor tt tanks.
rough plover
so the RU 251 that is currently in the marder line has been repositioned/downtiered to be a part of the german wheeled line
and leads to the first wheeled german tank of the line
SpPz2 Luchs
an auto cannon only tank - this will be a ver fast/agile tank but also very big
there wont be much hiding with this one
unlike the next tank in the line that begins era 2
EWK P3
a blurprint tank proposed in the 60s alongside a few other prototypes, the EWK P3 is essentially a wheeled suped up RU 251
eventually, the project would be cancelled with all concepts leading to the desing of the eventual Fuchs wheeled apcs
TH-200
2 versions of it exist - the EWK P3 turret and the cockerill turet
per description: "In 1984, the German company Thyssen-Henschel from the FRG began developing a series of wheeled vehicles TH-200 / TH-400 / TH-800 (on a two-axle, three-axle and four-axle chassis, respectively). The main gun for each of the series of machines was chosen as 90 mm / 105 mm / 155 mm respectively. In addition, at the later stages of development, the possibility of installing a smoothbore Rh-120 was also considered. The TH-200 machine could be equipped with a wide range of weapons, with guns of up to 90 mm caliber (in particular, the possibility of installing a turret and a gun manufactured by the Belgian company Cockerill was provided). The machine had a landing compartment designed for 9 people. The total weight was 9.5 tons, which made it possible to transport it by cargo helicopter. In addition, the TH-200 could swim. The powerful engine (225 hp) provided a specific power of over 24 hp/t and a maximum speed of about 110 km/h."
TH-400
essentially a wheeled version of the leopard 2a5 in a sense
not much to really say on this one, but it leads to the era 3 tanks of the line
RKw 90 6
3 versions of teh RKw tank were created with one of them being fully built
the first is the 6 rad (3 wheeled) version that evolves off of the TH-400
rough plover
RKw 90 8
from warthunder
per warthunder description: "The Radkampfwagen 90, also known as the Radpanzer 90, is an eight-wheeled combat vehicle prototype created by Daimler-Benz at the request of the German Federal Ministry of Defence. In the early 1980s, the German Federal Ministry of Defence tasked Daimler-Benz with building an armoured wheeled combat vehicle in response to the success of other countries' wheeled armoured vehicles, such as the French AMX-10RC. The combat weight was to be around 30 tonnes. In late 1983, Daimler-Benz began developing and manufacturing what was formerly known as the "Wheeled Demonstration Vehicle" and then the "Wheeled Experimental Vehicle (88)". The vehicle was ultimately designated "Radkampfwagen 90". The prototype was finished in 1986. Due to budget cuts and a deteriorating defense market, the Radkampfwagen 90 was never developed beyond the prototype stage. However, the test results were incorporated into the investigations conducted as part of the experimental program "Test Carrier Armored Transport Vehicle with Integrated Overall Protection," which later developed into the GTK Boxer armoured fighting vehicle. The prototype is now displayed in Germany's Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung (Defense Technology Study Collection) in Koblenz. The turret is a prototype version of the Leopard 2 main battle tank's."
and finally, the last tank of the line
RKw 90A1
a further concept based off of the standard RKw 90 above, this final version was supposed to haver a different turret with the leopard 2 L/44 gun
though after 1987, the project would cease further development
rough plover
VT 1-1
double barrel TDs :D
this is the VT1-1, which was made off of an KPz-70 chassis and two 105mm guns
the idea was to have a tank with double the speed and double the firepower of conventional tanks while sacrificing a moveable turret
engine and horsepower stuffs
PS is german for HP
balance wise, i envision these tanks to have sparse armor, but make up for it in extreme excelleration, hull rotation speed, and armament
great movement dispersion, horrible "turret" rotation dispersion
VT1-2
from warthunder
also based off the KPz-70, the VT1-2 mounts two L/44 120mm guns from the leopard 2s with some internal/external upgrades and changes
notably, the tank was supposed to have either one manual/one auto loading gun - or both autoloading guns holding 6 rounds
the concept would be carried over the the GVT tanks, but those were built without guns and were experimented further on with fire control systems and mobility
GVT 04
tho this tank would be based off of the leopard 1 chasis, it was made after the initial GVT tanks
concept of dual 120mm guns and autoloaders was still present but never materialised for the GVTs
then lastly we got the GVT 05
there is no good quality image of the GVT 05, but it was the final version of the GVTs before the project was curtailed
had some more external changes to it as well as the testing of more powerful internal systems
there was however an inclusion of a 20mm gun on the roof of the GVT 05 for the testing of propellent to simulate the firing of both guns because they were built with dummy guns
GVT 05 could very well have a 20mm top mounted coax that can act independently with the rest of the tank if need be
aaand thats all for the German tech tree stuff
next will be the premiums
brave tiger
Oh I like those dual gun German td,s but if they are supposed to be autoloader,s idk how that would work with the dual gun mechanics
manic whale
Surprised you haven't included this FVT-01
rough plover
Putting that into the tree would have been awkward as there wouldn't be much of a logical evolution from one tank going to that
Made from the m41 bulldog chassis, so logically it would be best to put it after a placed M41 90 that Germany had
Tho I don't have it in a line, so if it would be relegated more for a premium
Era 1 or 2 is another thing, this is one of the more difficult tanks to gauge an era placement with
rough plover
im going to be making some news stuff an updates ill post soon
regarding the german stuff
sneak peak change
rough plover
wiesel line :D (now proper)
anyways...
jaguar 1a1 and jaguar 1a2 are both very similar to one another aside from a few internal differences
essentially going to be the standard jaguar 1s we have in game but have the capabilities of being upgraded
leading up to the pen-ultimate jag 3 as teh top tier of the german TD line
Wiesel 1a1 MK20
saw the AOZ 2000 Autonomous Optronic Sighting unit mounted onto the vehicle, which offered improved night vision capability, a new CCD day camera, a laser range finder, and a ballistics computer
total of 74 Wiesel 1 MK received this upgrade
essentially a nerfed down wiesel 1 MK that has the abilities of being upgraded
at the cost of losing the premium bonuses of the prototype
Wiesel 1a4 MK20
model from warthunder
a Wiesel 1a2 MK20 that would get some upgrades to the internal systems as well as some thermals
Wiesel 1 RMK30/1
so there are different version of the RMK30 gun with ammo capacity amounts and velocities
this is the specifications for the different versions
essentially, the 30/1, 30/2, and 35/1 are going to act like the era 3 versions of the FV107
Wiesel 1 RMK30/2
different mount for the 4 chamber version
there is no image shown of the Wiesel with a 35mm RMK gun, but it would most likely be in the same mount as the 30/2 with a 35mm 3 round chamber
RMK30 gun (same concept applies to the 35mm version)
rough plover
Wiesel 1 HOT
dual HOT system tested on a HOT launcher turret system
would lead to the ATM HOT variant and then the final RMK30/HOT variant
already shown those two off, and that concludes the german tech tree tanks
now onto the premiums....
Raumpanzer is in ww2 and just needs to be ported over
B-PS 101 B
schematics of the regular B-PS
HWK 30 is already in ww2 and just needs to be ported over
Leichter Panzer Krauss-Maffei
little TD with a 90mm gun that was developed in 1971 by Krauss-Maffei similar to the Swedish UDES 03 (aiming horizontally by turning the hull, vertically by suspension and tilt of the gun).
rough plover
Panzerwagen is that tier 10 light in ee2 that can be ported over
made into some kind of special version of it parralel to the emissary AAT60
brave tiger
Would the panzerwagen even be good in era2 or would it just be another stingray situation
brave tiger
Yeah I feel era1 would be a better spot for it I'd imagine it be similar to the ru251 we already have I'm not familiar with it but dosen't it have a 105mm and good depression?
rough plover
yes
Borgward MBT
also known as the EP1-15/6
this is one of 3 tanks made for the leopard 1 tank program
didnt go beyond the model stage
rough plover
kunze panzer is in ww2 rn and can be era 2 worthy with proper stats
reflecting the era
Leopard 1 Stealth
essentially a testbed for a whole slew of electrical upgrades over a Leopard 1A3
thermals, imaging, and fire controls were all experimented on with different configurations and placements for them compared to a standard Leopard 1
void cloak
Leopard 1 Stealth
Looks like a modernized Vk 100.01
rough plover
Kinda yeah
rough plover
Wildekatze 90
90mm cockerill variant of the Wildcate SPAAG
Unbekannter
the model of a prototype ATGM carrier with a 20mm gun
no information about it is really known aside from the launcher supposedly being a HOT launcher and a name given to the tank the Porsche KG Hauptkampfpanzer HOT-Lenkrakete
could easily be an era 3 vehicle as well
PM 2 105
a version of the PM IFV chassis with the turret of a leopard 1A5
SPz 12-3 LGS
funny HS.30 with an M40 recoiless rifle
what else to say
unique radish
Omg its so derpy I love it.
cursive owl
I’m for everything except for the Wiesels. Wg would 100% have those op af
unique radish
Got an american weisel come Tuesday, XM800
rough plover
I’m for everything except for the Wiesels. Wg would 100% have those op af
You don't have to agree with everything
But please do hit that upvote either way cause you said you were down for everything else
This is more me just throwing stuff out there
cursive owl
But please do hit that upvote either way cause you said you were down for everyt...
Oh for sure man, honestly it’s not because the Wiesel would be op any way you could make it, it’s because wg as shown with the previous 2 Wiesels(till somewhat nerfed) would make them the most op tanks in era2
rough plover
Kpz. 3
one of those wierd prototype tanks that didn't go anywhere off paper, but was influential in the choosing of designs for Germany in the future
brave tiger
Is it wrong to say i kinda get t114 vibes from it
rough plover
Marder Clovis
this little thingy is a MArder with a 105mm frenchy gun and 20mm cannon
french/german collab
brave tiger
Oh didn't warthunder get the Clovis somewhat recently
rough plover
yes
brave tiger
We need it
rough plover
Leopard 3...?
"The development of improved components for the Leopard 2 was finally favoured, and in 1989 the Leopard 2 KVT (Komponentenversuchsträger - component trial vehicle) was built and tested. This vehicle was fitted with additional armor, spall liners in the fighting compartment, a new electrically-driven sliding hatch for the driver, new hatches for the commander and loader, and increased reactive and passive armor on the turret roof. The EMES-15 was raised and received an armored housing, and the PERI-17, now including an independent thermal sight channel, was relocated to the left rear of the commander's section. This prototype had a total weight of 60,500 kg. After the trials, this vehicle was converted into the IVT (Instrumentenversuchsträger - experimental vehicle for instruments) and joined the IFIS (integrated command and information system) development program carried out between 1988 and 1992, which researched in cooperation with the US the more efficient way to the management and use of gathered information. After evaluation of the development tests with with the KVT, two prototypes were built in 1991 by Krauss-Maffei for the improvement program, known as KWS..."
a speculative model of the Leopard 3 likely part of the KWS program
Pzh 2000
you all know this thing
Leopard 2 P48
one of them projects with a different leopard armor layout and turret proposed by the french
P48 would end up on the project board for other countries to adopt for their own tanks, but in the end no one was really interested
aannddd I already posted the Eber way waay up above
alright! Germany is finished
next proposal will be coming soon on the july 4th 😉
rough plover
Cold War German Expanded Tech Tree and Premiums Suggestion
cursive owl
Bump
wheat holly
Marder DF 105
Marder 2 (30mm gun) Prototype
Spähpanzer Luchs (1975)
Panzer 87-140
Panzer 68
rough plover
You're suggesting things I already did and some that aren't even German
wheat holly
You're suggesting things I already did and some that aren't even German
But with pictures XD
And there is no other place to put them outside of either Germany or as Independents.
The HS-30 with the autocanon/recoiless rifle combo would be neat
SPz 11-2 Kurz
rough plover
I literally already suggested that and posted images
wheat holly
Spähpanzer SP I.C.
God dammit this is a 2020 thing dam you WG! for making it before the year 2000
That is a crazy UN skin
Leopard 1 OTO MELARA 76mm
cursive owl
I literally already suggested that and posted images
You haven’t really added much since the 30th of July
Just let him get em out of his system ig
wheat holly
This is a sad incognita because it is a Leopard 1, but the ERA armor was added until recently.
cursive owl
That's why I haven't added anything
Alr