Warlord War Chests

[mighty carbon]

Commanders!

The new set of seasonal War Chests are here. Please leave all your feedback about the Warlords War Chests here

https://wotma.gg/Warlord-War-Chest

[royal magnet]

Return the 50% gold for a dupe tank to 100%.
Nothing feels as bad as being excited for a tank dupe, only to get half its gold.

[grizzled wharf]

Worked this out and its taking into account the additional chest drop rate.
Based on 100 chests + additionals you should get something like this,
Gold 29,007
Free XP 66,992
Premium time 40 Days
Silver 2.6 Million
Tanks 3.7,
And gold from duplicate tanks, Zero unless you own almost all of them or if you buy 100's of the chests.
Std season pass would take on avg 7 chests to get 2,000 gold.
Top season pass would take on avg 21 chests to get 6,000 gold.
You can prorata the above for smaller quantities of them.

[cedar inlet]

You won't get a dupe until you have all the tanks because of anti dupe

Like how they are tier 7+, but still terrible value for actual gold compared to the old chests

[grizzled wharf]

Also today Max tells me the old Viper chests have nothing to do with these new chests. So no point in hording them to get to like 100 as i was doing.
Also thanks to WG for putting the detailed drop rates down for us all to see.
Respectamundo.

[late spear]

Going to the challanges tab, I don't see any challange that awards these like there was for the last season's chests. Where are the challanges to earn these?

[drowsy stone]

Guess nothing was learned from round one of these seasonal chests and my attitude towards them remains the same. I would not ever consider buying these. The more detailed drop table is appreciated however, it is nice being able to see exactly what to expect.

[wraith seal]

They suck just give us back the the old chests please.

[ornate walrus]

it was stated since the change last season that the distribution would be dynamic - which means some weeks may be 4, others 2, and some none. There will be various ways to earn them throughout the season and the total number earnable over the season will be the same.

[ornate walrus]

The more detailed drop table was also added to the Private/Sergeant/General chest FWIW

[late spear]

Ok. Didn't know that. Thanks.

[jade latch]

Like all tanks in the drop table or in general?

[sharp cedar]

So Warlord = Viper which means 50 gold instead of 150 from the lowest Private Chest and the 50% only reduction for dups. All feedback from the Vipers Season not acted upon, looks like. Sadly.

[wraith scroll]

Even worse than viper chest in the sole fact that WG has ignored it's community feedback

[naive dew]

This is Ridiculous... There was NEVER any reason whatsoever to change it from how it was before.

[sick ingot]

Not all chests have the anti dup feature, every chest is different and you will have chests that you get dups.

[sick ingot]

Yes, its called money. WG was losing money with people buying the chests and not buying gold outright. Pay 107.99 for 30 general chests and get over 40,000 gold, which includes tank dups and gold droped in the chests. Bad forWG, good for us, now its good for WG and bad for us. It was a business decision for them. Now you're better off just buying the gold stright up.

[naive dew]

Probably bad for them too, I wonder how many people stopped buying that 💩

[near linden]

do we even gotta say anything

[lost kiln]

Got some gold from the recent war chests for minimum afford. So very nice 👍
I appreciate the change to that.

Thank you WG

The long haul was a bit of a pain for me.

[sharp cedar]

A detail often not commented on is Viper/Warlords/next season are all SINGLE Level Chests, i.e. only 1 type. Before players had 3 Levels, Private (lowest Gold), Sergeant (middle, higher Gold) and General (top, most Gold). This does not exist with the change. It is a substantial reduction.

[royal magnet]

Ive talked about this before. When WG made the chest change, they didnt reflect the price change for montly rewards or season chest drops.

[sharp cedar]

Yep, sadly. Edit. Another, Chest another 50 Gold. Edit two, Stage 55, yet another 50 Gold, total 200 loss.

[sharp cedar]

Stage 69, Viper Chest, 50 Gold. Now minus 300 Gold.

[wintry pier]

50 gold.

[sharp cedar]

LoL. May the luck be with you, always. I hope you didn't already have the Leo in your garage as you would be thousands of Gold missing from your account.

[sharp cedar]

Bunny OP Level 2, you guessed it, 50 Gold.

[long grotto]

Since the Private, Sergeant and General chests are gone, the rewards are less interesting...

50 gold coins... only 1/3 of what we got with the Private chests (150), is really a joke...

Unfortunately, in my country, I'm unable to buy chests, so I have to win them when it's possible, as the long hauls when it was possible...

[wintry pier]

I think the chests will be re-designed. Perhaps it would be best to continue with a version of the current Season Chest, but also have a purchase only chest that is more like the old versions (Private, Sargeant, and General).

Currently I am QUITE happy with earning the Season Chests, but I would not and have not purchased any extra. For my money they are not worth me buying them.

Trying to balance a chest to be both a reward for completing the new challenges AND for purchase is more difficult than having a dedicated version for both. Of course, the purchase option might be solved for me if the price was adjusted.

[cedar inlet]

I would never buy these, but like you said I'm okay with these being easier to earn

[royal magnet]

Remove these from the drop list, as all they do is lower the potential base gold recieved, are in no way worth their weight in gold, and feel awful to recieve.

x2 Commander XP booster
25,000 Silver
x1.25 Vehicle XP Booster
x1.5 Vehicle XP Booster
x2 Vehicle XP Booster

[royal magnet]

Even old private chests gave a base 150 gold. The minimum needs to be 150, not 50.

Or, if you want to match the actual value to that of the Sargent up it to 275.

[royal magnet]

Because this is insultingly low.

[sharp cedar]

a Chest is $ 2.95 Aus and 850 gold is $ 6.65. So 2 Chest is $5.90 for 100 Gold guaranteed instead of 850. 850 / by 50 is 17. So if you take on Chest at $2.95 and divide it by 17 that's 0.173 cents in real money for 50 gold. That's what the guarantee reward is worth. 18 cents Aus. Just saying.

[wintry pier]

Your math is off.
$6.65/850=$X/50

$X=$0.39 (Australian?)

But that is also just the minimum. My average is closer to 250 gold. ($1.96)

[sharp cedar]

2 chests are as close as I could get to 1 bag of Gold at $6.25 Aus. 3 Chests is $8.85 which is $2.20 difference. Of course, the previous Chests had 3 levels with guaranteed returns higher than the cheapest the Private. Sadly these are also gone. I have no idea what my average is for the new chests are, but whatever it is for the same number of chests it will always be lower than before.

[naive dew]

No more buying those ridiculous pathetic chests.

[wintry pier]

If you include all the stuff I got with gold value. Just this season, I averaged over $13 (Australian) per chest. I got a very high value tank that I WANTED. So there is some luck involved. But I am happy with the earnable ones.

Also with you "old chest" calculations, you are valuing them at Full Price. But the new ones you are only valuing the minimum gold. Your comparison is quite skewed.

Although I am not saying the new chest are something I want to purchase. I bought the previous version, but not these.

There is room for improvement on purchasable ones.

[ornate walrus]

Chest is base price of $1.99, Gold is 170.34 per USD, so the "gold" value of a chest is ~339. The gold value of that drop was 425, which means that drop was a ~125% return if you bought a chest at base price. If you bought the largest bundle, then they price works out to around $1.50 a chest, which means the return was now ~166% ($1.50 = ~255 gold).

The issue is more on what can be called "perceptive" value, aka the value that you feel from the item doesn't always reflect the actual value (gift cards worth $15 to a shop they hate may mean less to someone than a $10 gift card to their fave shop). These sort of things we do try and change where we can, with some of those type of changes being already in place with the old chests VS the new - multiple things people complained about getting were removed/improved. As an example it was often a complaint to receive silver from the generals chest, which dropped at 36.05%, whereas now they are around a 10.83% (reduced from ~12% in the vipers), and the amount received changing from 100k to 250k, to 25k to 1M. So the hope there would be you get that thing less, and if you do get it you will often get "much more" increasing the value to the person receiving it.

These sort of things are actionable feedback, it's something we monitor and we often change without making a song and dance about as that can impact the accuracy of data we can take from the results. But please keep giving honest (and as objective as possible) feedback on this sort of thing, we do monitor it on all channels/socials and look for where we can improve it within the areas we can.

[ornate walrus]

the average gold per USD received from the Warlords (not including tank dupe gold) is higher than any of the old chests, and if you've averaged 250 gold then you're actually on the low side and RNG could be kinder.

[sick ingot]

So you're saying the new chests are better than the old ones, except for the 1/2 gold for dupes?

[ornate walrus]

To get a rough "fair" comparison, you'd have to compare opening 5 Warlords ($9.95) VS 2 Generals ($9.98), the minimum is certainly higher for the Generals (250 for Warlords VS 850) but that doesn't factor in that both chests have a chance to drop extra gold, both at around 47%. Opening 5 means you should get at least 2 gold drops (5 * 47.5% = 2.375), each of those have a minimum gold drop of 300 meaning that if you hit averages you should get another at least 600, but opening 2 Generals doesn't average a single drop of gold (2 * 46.28% = 0.9256) so now both chests are averaging 850 minimal gold given. Except you spend around 3 US cents less on the warlords.

This is also before factoring in the drop chances of those each of those gold drop. This info is all on our webpage too if you want to check yourself 🙂 (https://modernarmor.worldoftanks.com/en/cms/news/war-chests/), including the itemized drop rates i'm mentioning. For the generals chest, the gold drop ranged from 175 to 1750, but the 175 was 11.46% of that 46% drop chance, and the odds of getting "extra gold" over 500 in value was 1.28% (1750) and 1.65% (1250) for 2.93% total. To compare that to the Warlords, a chest that costs less than half, the chance of getting 1,250 extra gold is 2.5%, 1000 gold is 2.5% and 750 gold is 2.5%. So there is a 7.5% chance to get extra gold worth more than 500 gold, nearly triple that of the generals. So you can buy 2.5x more, yet the chance for a higher gold drop is nearly 3x higher.

[ornate walrus]

not exactly, "better" is perceptive again. If you want "gold" and a tank you didn't own, then 100% these are better IMO. The average value of the tanks in the chests is higher, and as mentioned per USD spent the pure gold (not including dupes) is higher. But not everyone wants that, and so for some they won't find them better because what they want is no longer provided at the same level.

As mentioned above, a lot of the complaints people had about the old chests were addressed or improved upon with these but as can be seen here that doesn't mean they are now perfect, and due to the change of making what was essentially a $5 chest into a $2 chest we almost certainly will have room for improvement in making the perceptive value of some of the drops better.

At a pure mathematical/data level, for every dollar spent people get more gold from the guarantee + gold drop, but excluding dupe gold, than they did from the old chests. But i appreciate that doesn't mean it is better for all.

[sick ingot]

With the generals chest at 27 chests for 107.99, i was able to get more gold, more preimum time than with the warlords chest at 50 for 80.99, price is after tax. I think thats the biggest gripe about the new structure of the new chests, you cant do that anymore, plus now you onle get half gold on dupe tanks. People used that for season passes, buying commanders, and xp, silver, and commander perks. Cant do that now, plus the dont sell the perks like they used to.

[ornate walrus]

So i did some very rough math, so both an element of take it with a pinch of salt and then the obvious of anything with RNG what a single person will experience will not always match the average. But to do an apples to apples you have to stick to those averages, because i can confirm that the averages are being met across the full range of opens.

So, to bring price parity to that 27 gererals you could either buy 60 Warlords (50 + 5 + 5) to bring it pretty close (not sure how close for you, but should be very close) or spent a bit more before tax and get 70, as it's closer i'll use 60. You can do a more exact price parity doing 4x 50 bundles VS 3x 27 generals, but at that point you're doing it purely for mathematical reasons and it doesn't really change much.

With a drop rate of 3.6 you can expect 2.16 tanks, so 2 tanks. With 27 Generals you can expect 2.7 tanks, so again 2 tanks. If you check the old chests itemised drop rates you'll see that higher value tanks have a lower drop chance than cheaper ones, whereas with warlords it's an equal chance of any tank - with the caveat of the anti-dupe meaning you get a tank you don't own. So for the same spend, both will give 2 tanks on average but you'll get a higher value you tank you do not own with the warlords while the generals will give from a lower value pool and weight towards a lower value tank, but has a chance at a dupe (depending on how many you own defines that chance so can't really calc that). Tanks from the Warlords average 9850, with a minimum of 7200 while the Generals chest has an average of 8114 and a minimum of 5000 (7 of the tanks in the generals are actually worth less than the lowest value in the current Warlords).

Then for premium time, the Warlords with a 8.53% will drop premium 5 times whereas the generals will drop 3 (again, sticking with whole number's from average). Both offer 1 or 3 days of premium, but the warlords also offers 30 days and the 1 and 3 have the same drop rate, whereas the 1 day is more likely on the generals. So on average you'd get more premium time from this with warlords than from the generals.

Then for gold drop, the warlords with 47.5% will give 28 while the generals with 46.28% will give 12. And as established earlier that 28 will on average give more gold per drop than the generals, so on average the warlords will give far more gold from drops than the generals in this case too. At their minimums that's an extra 8400 gold from warlords and an extra 1500 for Generals. You can do some fancier math to work out exactly the expected gold return, but realistically the main thing here is the Warlords would give you more "gold" dropped from this category, likely by quite a lot.

Then the guarantee gold, here the generals easily wins with 11,475 VS the 3,000 of the warlords.

Overall from about the same spend point, on average you should get: as many tanks but of a higher average and higher minimum value, more premium time, more gold from drops but less guaranteed gold. But certainly enough to buy the season pass and some commanders. So the statement of "you can't do that now" is just not really accurate.

Now obviously this doesn't factor in dupes, but to be unpopular i think most people are somewhat rose tinting how much and how often they got dupe gold. We have the numbers, and per refresh of the generals chest the % of people who opened one and got a dupe tank was closer to 0 than it was to 100%, the majority of people who opened them did not get a dupe tank. And that's before factoring in that if you did get a tank, it was more likely to be a lower value tank. So, doesn't mean the new ones are "better" but i do think they have a pretty unfair opinion on them and the data backs that. New ones can and likely will still be improved though 🙂

[sick ingot]

I think most people are used to the private, sargent, and general chest drops and really diont understand how the new ones work. People just see 1/2 gold for dupes, a lesser guararteed gold drop minimum and its not what their used to. It would be nice to see the tank dupe gold back to full price, but understand why it was halved. Like you said, there's always ways to improve the chests.

[drowsy stone]

The lesser minimum drop is my pain point. I've opened 16 chests, 11 of which I got just 50 gold. My recommendation would be to increase the minimum drop to 100-150 and then adjust the bonus gold drops accordingly (subtract 50-100). It feels really bad to grind these chests and get less gold than a season pass level or less gold than what would be required for a single match utilizing premium consumables (gold price). Also the premium tank drop rate is a bit too low imo. Just off of my experiences with these chests there is no incentive to buy them, it costs less to buy most tanks outright and feel more likely to get better value just purchasing gold and then getting what I actually want.

[ornate walrus]

it's understandable, the old chests were around a long time (pre date my tenure at WG by some time lol) and so the old chests were familiar, understood and there is a lot of changes that are not obvious. It does take sitting down and doing the numbers to get to the reality of the changes, i tried to help Fault and Kryptic when they were doing there initial numbers, myself and others have tried to answer as many questions as we can and we updated the information for the current and old war chests to be more open with the changes and allow people to do some of the number crunching themselves.

Lots of small changes were made to the old chests over the years to try and address feedback, and i'm sure over time the same will happen to these new ones.

[ornate walrus]

yeah i think it's fair to say that when RNG goes against you the lower guarantee can make the feeling not great, your example is some bad RNG given the drop rate, but the same was of course happening to people (and perhaps you but not remembered) with the old chests.

It's worth considering that the main ones people were saying the dropped from long haul, were privates, which most people would have got less of (long haul replacements being easier to obtain) and then those had a 25% chance to drop 25 to 250 gold on top of the 150 guarantee (which is still less than a Season pass level FWIW). So for the vast majority of players, they are now getting a chest more often that also drop gold more often. So there is a bit of a "not apples to apples" comparison going on being fair, the guarantee gold was still higher but realistically your 5 drops is a minimum of 1750 gold + the 550 gold from the others for 2300 minimum, which is about the same as 6 privates dropping max gold with a 0.000000001% chance, 15 privates dropping no extra with a 1.34% chance or the most realistic 12 dropping gold on 3 of them.

Which I think there will always be an aspect that is really impractical to grapple with which is it's always comparing a reality to a could have been. So your example is objectively bad RNG and that will obviously make you feel worse because you got less than you should, and the lower minimum guarantee will sink that in even further. Statistically you should have got at least 7 drops, so you underpeformed by about 34%. But to compare that, it's likely that you'd have had less chests in the old format to even open and have still got that 34% worse RNG than average. On average, you should have got 1000s more gold that the minimum i mentioned but being frank, what good does "should have" do for you? 😅

In terms of the premium tank drop rate, this is an area i think people tend to just not see much beyond "smaller number = bad". If you compare to Privates, well privates had an average value around 3.2x lower (the max value of tank in a privates is nearly lower than the minimum in the warlords), while the drop rate is only 2.7x lower -it gets a bit more complicated when accounting for purchase cost but a lot of the time people are comparing getting these from quests/for free so it's a somewhat complicated thing. Similar thing when comparing to the Generals, you get more chests that have a higher average value, and that's before looking at the per tank drop rates.

But as i said, no one should be claiming the new chests are perfect but i think a lot of the hate has been somewhat unfair, and we will keep looking to make improvements as time goes on. I hope your RNG improves, maybe you're due a good streak 😅 maybe next bunch with be +34% instead 🤞

[sharp cedar]

I have zero interest in gambling. For me it is based on the non-gambling returns. If bought a Private chest, I new I would get 150 Gold. I buy a new Chest, I know I can get 50 Gold. It's that simple. I use to complete 2 Long Hauls a week. Now I doubt if I would complete one especially if it was for 40 cents (2 new Chests). Just saying.

[grizzled wharf]

@ornate walrus @KB
Your attention please People,
In Band of Brothers ep1 Winters tells Bud "Never put yourself in a possition where you can take from these men"

For a lot of players the new chests and other things happening right now feel like we are having alot of things taken away from us.

The chests? Keep the new chests and how to earn them or buy them. But also bring back the old Pri, Ser and General chests for purchase.
Then if needing to top up our gold we have a real choice. Buy gold or buy chests of our choice for a more engaging experience shall we say.
Nothing then would be taken away from us. That = Happy tankers.
And nothing changed with your new chests and having happy tankers again. That should = Happpy WG Yes?

Blinding us with "This x lower and that x higher" or this % of cat owners just ain't cutting it at this stage, even although the numbers quoted may well be correct. Its all about how us the players feel when a change is made.

[sharp cedar]

yep

[sharp cedar]

If WG believe the current chest offers more to players and are concerned that the new single chests are losing the company money I am sure that playing community are more than willing to go back to the previous 3 chest system (unchanged).

[broken vessel]

I'm liking the Warlord War Chests the same way I liked the Vipers one. So far, just with the free chests I've gotten this season through the earn ops, I'm at 4k+ gold plus the miscellaneous stuff. Vipers gave me about 6k gold (plus I lucked out early and got a tank). Not included the season gold.

As a player who plays for free and haven't spent real money on the game (yet), I can say that these chests are easy to earn. Compared to me rarely being able to get long haul, I'm getting so many more chests.

Before, with just a regular season pass, if I played enough, I'd always be able to get a regular season pass on repeat forever. Now, with these changes, I can still do that AND the drop rate means that I am more likely to get enough gold to get the ultimate season pass.

I see what's going on. It's engagement. All the changes are driving players being online more. So, while some opinions may look at it like it is costing the game revenue, it's really making the player base be online more and longer which could be worth more to them than any loss from war chests (which I don't actual think it's happening).

[sharp cedar]

I play less now because of the changes, not more.

[wraith scroll]

I went from ~200 battles/week (2 long hauls + the battles where I didn't do so good) to ~50 battles/week DIRECTLY due to these changes before my eventual uninstall.

[hexed vigil]

Free ones are nice, always, even if most have 50 gold and some pointless boosts. If WG expect people to pay real money for these the potential drop rates would have to improve. Once a year, buy a gold pack, it’s the only thing you need for 365 days premium and the 2K gold season pass each time.

[winged otter]

So everyone spends the same amount of money on a chest, and a person who wins a tank gets a complete tank. but if you win a duplicate tank you only get half the value. How is that fair to everyone? I feel like the people who get a duplicate should get full gold value as that’s what they won a tank, not 1/2 a tank.

[sick ingot]

People making too much gold off dup tanks, thats why WG did that.

[drowsy stone]

Well guess my luck is absolutely rotten, 17/22 of my seasonal chests have been 50 gold as of now. No tank drops either. To me the game is offcially more trouble than its worth to log onto. One single General chest minimum drop exceeds my total seasonal warchest earnings for this entire season (6 drops of 50). My primary way of getting chests has always been the pass so losing out on that guaranteed gold really stinks

[sharp cedar]

Ouch. Its not luck, it's just gambling in reality. So you were down 100 Gold seventeen times (the old Private chests with a guaranteed 150 a chest). In some ways you were fortunate you didn't get a Duplicate tank drop as you would have missed out even more.

[naive dew]

They have COMPLETELY RUINED It....

[vale valve]

That XBox Link to the Special Sale doesn‘t work.
And I can‘t find that offer in my Xbox Store or in game…
Where is it? 10 chests for 4.99 - i want that!

[ornate walrus]

It's being a bit of a pain this bundle 😅 Right now you can find it on Xbox via the store searching for it or going to this link https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/games/store/world-of-tanks-modern-armor-season-send-off-saver/9P1KGCDM96B9/0010 and for PS it should be live tomorrow 🙂

[broken vessel]

Season send off bundle was nice. 5$ was within Xbox rewards range so I didn't have to spend real money. 4/10 duds. 2600 gold. Most were 400 gold.

[grizzled wharf]

Agree. We got it for playstation today.

[spare elm]

Yeah you can’t go wrong for $5.00..

10 Chests:
2450gold
Boosters:
9 1.25Xp, 5 1.5Xp, 5 3Xp, 3 5Xp, 9 4Xp Commander
1500 Free Xp
No tank of course 😔

[sick ingot]

No ya cant.

[acoustic steeple]

My haul plus 6 days premium and 3000 gold very happy

[sick ingot]

Nice

[royal magnet]

Good chest value.

[lilac oasis]

VK 7501 K and Chieftan Hybrid 120 in my bundle. 2400 gold also.