AMX 13 SS-11 TCA Improvement

[small meteor]

Intra clip reload 2sec ----> 1.85sec
Power-to-weight ratio 22.81 ---> 25.50

ATGM Ammo 8 ---> 9

75mm Armor Damage 180 --> 200

[safe thunder]

It has already been buffed and it’s too strong as it is.

[small meteor]

they only buff the gun handling which is not much the tank is trash compared to the ignis german light tanks i don't know what you are smoking

[safe thunder]

You are comparing it to a tank that is completely ridiculous, the tanks that are op need pulling back. Buffing all the other missile light tanks to put them on the same level just means you have more broken tanks in the game and makes the game worse

[hexed hawk]

Why buff the ammo count of the atgms

It holds 4 per "clip" so it getting a extra 2 dosen't make sense it should be 12 in total

But increasing it's aplha would be nice maybe not rdflt lvl but maybe 200-220 should be decent enough

[safe thunder]

Why should it do 220 a shot on its secondary weapon when the scorpion 90 does 280 a shot with its main gun and doesn’t have a secondary weapon

[supple apex]

The 75mm is the primary weapon

[hexed hawk]

The 75mm gun is it's primary gun

[supple apex]

As for buffs for the AMX, sure.
ATGM count buffed to 12 (as well as the WZ-122 for that matter), and a quicker intraclip. It doesn't really need much

[hexed hawk]

Put it this way I'd prefer not to deal with a mega buffed probably better rdflt that also gets atgm's that sounds busted af

If it had 320 aplha to match the rdflt it be mega op so reducing it's aplha to at most 250 is fine

Yes ik it has like 180 aplha currently

[safe thunder]

the 90mm is the scorpions only gun

[safe thunder]

Reduce the rdf’s alpha to 250 is that what you are saying ?

[hexed hawk]

Omg that's not what I'm saying

Oblivious af

[safe thunder]

What are you saying then ?

[hexed hawk]

Said the amx13 should at MOST have 250

[safe thunder]

That is too much

[hexed hawk]

Lmao no

[safe thunder]

Yes it is

[hexed hawk]

1500 average clip with that buffed aplha

Currently it's 1080

And if it had 320 aplha like the rdflt it have 1920+ it's 4x clip of 1210 aplha atgm's =busted

So no honestly I think it's fine

[safe thunder]

The missiles do 1210 damage a shot and that’s if they don’t blow a turret off

[hexed hawk]

They gotta be careful buffing lights that have both a autoloader/autocannon and atgm's

Don't need more weasel mk,s

If the amx13 just was a amx13 75 then yeah it absolutely would need a massive buff but it gets carried by it's atgm's generally

[safe thunder]

The missiles do too much damage per shot

[hexed hawk]

Meh sure they hit hard but it has the same atgm's the rakjpz2 td has also it only has 8 of them

[safe thunder]

The leopard 1a5 has 2650 hit points so when one of those missiles hits it takes almost half your hit points it’s too much damage

[hexed hawk]

Atgm's are supposed to hit hard kinda the point of them

[safe thunder]

The amx 13 has 2300 hit points so only 350 less than the leopard 1s5 it has missiles and a secondary gun what relevance does the leopard 1a5 have ?

[hexed hawk]

The balancing factor of the amx13,s atgm's is it has very few atgm's and a long intra clip and clip reload it can't spam them

You gotta be very selective when using them

[safe thunder]

You have a secondary weapon you can use when you are waiting
for the next missile to load

[hexed hawk]

Ik

And the atgms are the secondary weapon fyi

[unkempt jewel]

There is not a single missile tank in this game that need a buff. With 8 missiles on this tank you can in theory do easy 8k damage alone without the ammoracking and gun.
Missile tanks are way to easy to harvest damage points as it is. Hide in the back and let the heavy's do the dirty work so you can steal the kills and hitpoints.

[humble needle]

More ATGMs helps but the reload needs to be a little faster

Both the AMX and WZ spend too long loading missiles (not to mention the abysmal intraclip times)

[humble needle]

The M3A2?

The BMP-3?

The BMP-1?

The Raketenjagdpanzer 3?

The Sheridan?

The T-72s (AV and up)?

The T-80s (B and up)?

The Merkavas?

[humble needle]

Theoretical ≠ Actual.
In actual gameplay, the AMX gets torn up by autocannons and MBTs due to the slower speed it has.
Even if it's not by some miracle, it then has to work with poor gun depression and horrible DPM.

[supple apex]

Intra or Inter? I would argue that the Intra is fine

[hexed hawk]

Literally the only buffs id give the amx13 is more aplha maybe better mobility but other then that it's fine it's recent buff actually made it's 75mm usable

[humble needle]

The reload is fine

The problem is the combination of both intra and inter

38 base inter reload + 45 un-upgradable intraclip reload

That's 83 seconds

For four missiles

I know this isn't a good metric, but comparing it to something like the Begleitpanzer or BMP-2 shows how horrid that speed is

An optimal build won't be using something like Advanced Loader or rations either

So the only boosts you'll be getting are from Rapid Loading and Born Leader

[unkempt jewel]

No
No
No
No
No
No
No and
No

[unkempt jewel]

Still a no. To powerful for how easy it is to do high damage.

[humble needle]

So why exaxtly do those tanks not need buffs?

The T-72B+ and T-80BV+ have to sacrifice HE to load ATGMs which means they sacrifice the ability to frontally engage very tough targets like the Molot

The Merkavas have very poor armor currently, their penetration is lackluster, and their above average DPM has been powercrept to Hell and back

The Sheridan is basically forced to load ATGMs as the HE and HEAT are way too derpy and inconsistent. It's fast but struggles to engage Lights which are its main threat.

The Raketenjagdpanzer is almost completely useless after the ATGM changes. It has no defense against targets and is not fast enough to flee from a lot of tanks. Not to mention the ATGMs are rather slow.

The BMP-1 and 3 have barely any ammo, slow missiles, bad primary weapons, and are very large.

The M3A2 is the M3A2 it's been awful since Day One.

[humble needle]

It is the second slowest IFV in Era 3, maxing out at 79 with an optimal build. It also has a rather low hp/w ratio relative to other IFVs and even some MBTs.
It has a very slow firing autocannon with inconsistent damage output.
The missiles on an optimal build have a reload of ~20 seconds with an intraclip of ten, totaling at 30 seconds of reloading for 2600 damage. Even factoring in the occasional ammorack or fire, the damage output is still very poor especially compared to other tanks.
The camo is also pretty bad, and factoring in the penalty for firing ATGMs, it is very hard to stay concealed.
~20° of gun depression on the launcher is nice, but ultimately it fails to fix the flaws the M3A2 has.

[small meteor]

I guess the t-62am1 rockets don't need a buff then And you realize you can miss and bounce with the AMX TCA missiles right?

[chrome juniper]

12 atgms, faster intra clip reload on main gun, more alpha and buff accuracy

[magic plank]

Not really, no. The tank is very slow, and has awful penetration

[magic plank]

He just hates ATGMs

[hexed hawk]

It has better pen then autocannon,s so I don't see any problems with the pen of the amx13

[magic plank]

Don't compare a 75mm to an autocannon

[magic plank]

As time has passed, the platform and gun have been getting worse and worse. The alpha increase is to modernise its alpha to something closer to a CW standard. I believe the engine power increase would help this tank with its general mobility.

-AMX 13 SS-11
-- Gun 75mm
-- Alpha: 180 -> 320
-- Reload: 8.9s -> 14.5s
-- Engine
-- Engine Power: 350 -> 400
-- Power to Weight: 22.81 -> 26.07

[safe thunder]

So you want to almost double the damage per shot on the gun

[hexed hawk]

You know what that makes sense I agree 👍

I've always liked the amx13 but it needs some improvements

[magic plank]

It is the worst 75mm in era 2 by a pretty large margin

Even the T92 has a better gun

And it's not even close either

[safe thunder]

The t92 doesn’t have two weapon systems

[unkempt jewel]

Cant have everything

[unkempt jewel]

Yet you easily do 6 to 8k damage. Again, play support not attack.

[unkempt jewel]

Not that bad, it holds its own pretty good

[unkempt jewel]

Could have faster reload on HE

[supple apex]

6-8k I don't think is all that impressive in Era 3. It's a decent game, sure, but a figure like that I find is more attainable in something like the Thumper or one of the other heavies

[unkempt jewel]

I find bmp3 very good to play.

[unkempt jewel]

I said EASY 6 to 8k.

[supple apex]

I wouldn't even say easy either.

The Bradley itself has so many disadvantages it can genuinely struggle on many maps

[unkempt jewel]

In conventional tanks you need to work for that. In a missile tank you can hide in the back farming with your feet up

[supple apex]

Did you mean conventional?

You can do that in a MBT too. True vision makes sniping from afar easy

[unkempt jewel]

Yet l took it out the other day and made 11k damage not breaking a sweat

[supple apex]

The Bradley? Congrats, that's better than most would ever do in it

[unkempt jewel]

You dont hit for 1200 in a mbt and getting a no pen from that distance are big nowadays

[unkempt jewel]

Yes

[humble needle]

That's exactly what I've noted in all these "all ATGM tanks are balanced" posts

People just want CW to be a 1:1 WW2 in terms of gameplay outside of true vision

[unkempt jewel]

Thank god for that

[humble needle]

Yeah. You know why I pull those numbers? Because I'm statistically one of the best M3A2 players. I manage to place extremely high up on the leaderboards despite the fact that I am competing against notorious bot farmers and MM riggers.

The average player is not pulling these numbers in the M3A2

[humble needle]

True. Just like how they can't have decent armor, or a better RoF, or better pen, or better speed, or better view range, or better damage.

I defo agree with you there

T-72s/80s are perfectly balanced and designed.

[supple apex]

They definitely can't have a APFSDS/Premium ATGM/HE load out either.
That would be pure insanity

[humble needle]

Honestly

Give the T-72s/80s their prammo AP round as standard on that

Would be balanced

Especially since literally everything else on the T-72s/80s is worse than NATO vehicles

[supple apex]

They don't actually even need that.
The top tier Era 3 ones get 606mm.
That's more than good enough

[humble needle]

Eh

I guess

Outside of problematic vehicles like the STRV 122A, Osorio, etc, it's decent enough so long as you don't RB+RT

[humble needle]

LOL ok

The Object 292 has a shell with 900 pen, 760 damage, and a shell velocity of 1980

It's so unbelievably easy to pull numbers like that

[thin summit]

Jeez

Skill issues on atgms

[humble needle]

But woah woah woah

That's an unfair argument

[thin summit]

🥱

[humble needle]

The 292 is a premium

Alright

The M1A2 has a shells with 592/740 pen, 535 damage, and 1700/1575 m/s shell velocity.

All that with 9° of gun depression, a turret impenetrable to all but a couple tanks, and a very trolly hull

Unless you're trying to throw, it's incredibly easy to pull those numbers

[humble needle]

Most NATO tanks share these stats btw

So there's no excuse for lack of tank diversity

🅱️alance

[humble needle]

The Merkavas literally don't function like how they're supposed to but ok. The frontal engine block isn't counted as armor and so the entire quirk of the tanks is gone.
And the pen. Here's something for you. The Mk 3 is almost required to load prammo to pen the LFP of the Abrams (already promoting a bad habit of prammo spam). The UFP will bounce all shells that aren't ATGM or HE (Merkava Mk 3 is forced to use the upgraded gun that takes away the HE as that's the only way it gets the higher DPM, and ATGMs have to deal with the arming distance) so you're very likely gonna have to aim for the very inconsistent turret ring weakspot.
And all the while you're doing this, even with standard shells, the M1A2 is gonna cleave right through the front of a Merkava Mk 3.

[safe thunder]

The merkava mark 3 is no worse than the type 90

[unkempt jewel]

Yes, nerf missile damage

[humble needle]

On an optimal build you're looking at a 14.08 second reload with a 0.34 stationary/2.98 moving accuracy.
Buffing the reload is not the way to go btw. The last thing you want is an 1100 alpha derp having DPM. That's nightmarish.
Buffing the moving accuracy would be good, as it would help with pursuits while not enabling long range snapshots since the velocity is still so low.
Alternatively you could buff the damage or reload of the missiles by a little bit so they aren't totally outclassed by vehicles like the Begleitpanzer, Marder 1A1, BMP-2, etc.

[unkempt jewel]

So a high dpm on a rocket is oki, but not a derp is it so l understand this?🤔

[humble needle]

Assuming you even survive long enough to fire all autocannon shells and ATGMs, you have a combined damage potential of 22,720. Of course this doesn't factor in the HE, but you already aren't even gonna fire or even pen all of these munitions.
Meanwhile the M1A2 has a damage potential of 26,750. With a single weapon.

The BMP-3 may be fast and stealthy, but you're still a fat target with poor damage potential and an awful autocannon.

[humble needle]

What ATGM vehicle has high DPM? Do tell me.

And while you're telling me

Also tell me how it's unfair

[unkempt jewel]

All of them with missile and gun.

Begleitpanzer

You need to take both weapon systems into the account of the dpm

[sour sigil]

No matter how much is buffed wiesel will destroy it with one clip it's a fact.

[humble needle]

Individually it is lower than probably all Era 2 tanks.
Combined it is higher than most Era 2 tanks.
Good argument.
However
●The Begleitpanzer is an outlier. Everyone knows this already. Compared to other MWS vehicles it's still way higher even after the nerfs. And while it may be slower/equal to the Marder 1A1 and BMP-2, it ultimately has higher clip potentials to combat this. Also DPM isn't totally reliable as you aren't always firing your gun.
●The Wiesel 1 MK has a nearly identical DPM to the Begleitpanzer's combined DPM (still haven't heard you say anything about the Wiesel 1 MK being op).
●The AMX 30Bs all have a much higher stock DPM then the fully upgraded Begleitpanzer.
●The Turm III has a higher base DPM then the fully upgraded Begleitpanzer.
●The GAU-8 and M163 VADS exist.
●The Shred Tread exists.
●The Monsterjager exists.

TL;DR: Begleitpanzer is an outlier and there's plenty of monsters with absurd DPM and damage output that you haven't bothered to criticize or point out because "muh missile to good".

[unkempt jewel]

I could go on and on about all the WG's money making premium tanks in this game. But l could not be botherd anymore as everything has bien discussed so many times.

If it comes down to balance, all this VW golf armored tanks should die in one shoot from a heavy/medium. Still you need about 4-5 if all shoots pen and they not always do. Balance is wg last priority thise days as long as they can sell you another wiesel.

[humble needle]

LOL

If you wanna do that one shot bs you should be fine with missiles one shotting

Hell

With your logic

They should one shot even more

What else is a giant missile going through the front (and back) of a tank gonna do

Besides

When it comes to "balance"

Not only are missiles literally more powerful than shells

They're also slower than conventional shells, so them not one shotting would make no sense vs faster traveling and loading shells.

[safe thunder]

Nothing about it is bs if a 120mm round hit a wiesel in real life it would destroy it in one shot

[ashen crow]

Thats how I feel about any derp cannon. If the round is half your tank. Your dead. Period.

Light tanks have so much hp in CW

[thin summit]

And if they had too little?

"rah rah rah I need to one shot lights no matter what"

They wouldn't stand a chance and would be basically useless because of low hp pool

And the mere concept of needing to one shot lights - skill issue

If you get outplayed you get outplayed

Learn how it happened and adapt

We get that you hate atgm vehicles but nerfing them like that still won't save you 👍

[safe thunder]

People always just resort to saying skill issue

[magic plank]

If you truly feel that way, than WoT, a game with HP bars isn't for you.

[safe thunder]

The wiesel one shots tanks when it ammoracks them and you think that is fine

[supple apex]

Ammo racks are a one-shot regardless of who the shooter is.

[safe thunder]

They need to massively reduce the module damage that missiles do

[small meteor]

Then the object 934 would be terrible to play you have to aim at weakspots to ammo racked

[safe thunder]

No you don’t

[small meteor]

You don't know what you are talking about

ATGMs is hard to master for a new player you have to deal with low speed and make sure you aim at weakspots to do damage

[safe thunder]

I have played missile tanks and you don’t have to aim anywhere specific to ammo rack tanks

[small meteor]

Wrong in everyway it's just like aiming in a fv4005

[safe thunder]

No I’m not wrong

[small meteor]

while shooting modules

[small meteor]

You are because you don't damage modules every time when you snapshot with rockets but if you know how to aim at the Chinese meds weakspots like the fuel tank on the left side of the upper plate you will easily set it on fire. Aiming good is very rewarding in atgms .

[safe thunder]

I disagree

[small meteor]

explain

[safe thunder]

I have witnessed all of what I am saying in game and you are not going to convince me that I am wrong

[small meteor]

Whatever you say

I convince you show your rear armor against the m60a2

[safe thunder]

That’s just insulting

[humble needle]

And if a tandem-charge ATGM hits an MBT in real life it would also destroy it in one shot

So now we've just decided to make War Thunder 2

https://tenor.com/view/doug-walker-nostalgia-critic-clap-gif-22806849

[safe thunder]

It’s toxic that missiles can one shot the heavies but they can never return the favour

Missiles one shotting tanks makes it more like war thunder or am I missing something

[humble needle]

It's also toxic that MBTs can just yolo ram me in the M3A2 and there's literally no counter play since I'm slower, have poor camo making it hard to hide, and lack an effective weapon in CQB (no, the Bushmaster is not effective. I have calculated how poor its damage output is numerous times).
"Oh just stick with the team" that doesn't change anything. If someone wants me dead all they gotta do is toggle cruise contol and press RB+TT.

But you don't care

You never have cared

[safe thunder]

It sounds to me like you want to have the cake and eat it

[humble needle]

You only wish to see Cold War become WW2 but with true vision. The same boring gameplay with mechanics that suck.

[safe thunder]

We just want missiles to be balanced pal

[small meteor]

they are

[safe thunder]

They aren’t

[humble needle]

Yeah, I do want to have a slice of the cake, but I want to share.

Ironically enough you've been acting in a way that's all about "taking the whole cake".

No room for negotiation with you

It's your way or the highway

[small meteor]

The atgm 2.0 update just make them skill based now compare the old atgm update

[humble needle]

I've talked about ATGM reworks in the past to fix the issues. I'm not some "ATGM simp/anti-MBT" player.

I understand both sides and try to compromise but you've been hellbent on crippling already bad tanks even more.

[safe thunder]

That is exactly how you behave and with the way you respond you try and make me feel like I’m an idiot

[dawn wharf]

I'm surprised there is all this goin on when the AMX 13 SS-11 TCA is literally a dumpster tank. Pretty much the only cw tank I own that I actively avoid playing

[hexed hawk]

All I say is atgm's are balanced especially now sure they can be annoying but they aren't op

[humble needle]

NO NO NO

The AMX-13 is super op!!!!

It needs to have 100 meters of stationary accuracy

And a seven bajillion reload time

[hexed hawk]

I only have the amx13 because it was tank of the month awhile ago lol

[humble needle]

With 1 damage!

[dawn wharf]

Same, thought it would be good and boy was I wrong 😂. Even before the atgm change I didn't like this thing

[hexed hawk]

Best two buffs the amx13 needs is better engine power and a little bit better alpha damage

Other then that idk

[safe thunder]

The heavies are going to get slowed down and all of your miserable missile firing tanks are going to get a buff via the back door and if that doesn’t make it more like ww2 I don’t know what will

[dawn wharf]

Yeah it's mobility and 75mm are horrible feeling.

[humble needle]

You quite literally believe the T-72Bs do not need a buff because "they have the magic missile".

That

That's

That's completely insane

[hexed hawk]

Now the 75mm can actually hit it's target just now it's burst damage sucks

[safe thunder]

At what point have I said the t72s don’t need buffs

[humble needle]

Heavies aren't getting slowed. They're getting slowed on muddy extremely/soft terrain. Find something like a road or path and you'll be zooming like usual.

And all this will do is make it so rocket tanks can do some early game harassment. You'll still be able to shoot them using true vision as per usual. Just don't play like a garbage can.
It'll be just like the ATGM change. Nothing will actually change for most players.

[humble needle]

I'm not trying to make you feel like one lol

That's on you

I've just presented my arguments and backed them up

If that makes you feel like an idiot, sounds like something is up with you.

[safe thunder]

There is nothing up with me pal. You just keep on with your minor insults

[hexed hawk]

Buff the amx13 75mm aplha to 200-250 and increase it's engine power to 28 hp/t that should help it a decent amount

[safe thunder]

Yes and that will slow them down

[safe thunder]

You are putting words into my mouth that I simply haven’t said

[small meteor]

You just said that the missiles on those heavy tanks don't need a buff

[safe thunder]

No I didn’t

[small meteor]

You just say that that they don't need a atgm buff when he gives you example of missile tanks that have crappy rockets

[hexed hawk]

Gun launched atgm's on t72,s/t80,s need reload buff they take 20 seconds to reload

Throw in the t62-m1 as aswell

[unkempt jewel]

No missile in this game are crappy.

[unkempt jewel]

More user errors😉

[small meteor]

GUYS!!! the Object 934 has the op missile it's fv4005 level!!!

[unkempt jewel]

https://youtube.com/shorts/lF0UUcP5uD0?si=zF08rkopLG4viLd9

Looks like merkava mk3 missiles are a bit crappy

[small meteor]

Nice cherry-pick You found one clip of a guy knowing how to aim to a bad player that have poor awareness. every gun that has a chance to ammo you are not always good by your logic the sturmtiger gun is op. because it has high module damage.

[hexed hawk]

All atgm's can be dangerous

But um who actually wants to use them on t72/t80 they take 20 seconds to load

[chrome juniper]

Mostly just use one at the start of a game

[hexed hawk]

Yep

Only time it's even remotely viable

[small meteor]

Yes knifes can be dangerous too just don't use a butter knife in a UK knife fight

[chrome juniper]

Indeed

[unkempt jewel]

excuses excuses excuses. You get the hang of it in no time.

[safe thunder]

You have no idea if that player is good or bad at the game

[humble needle]

Mfw an unarmored tank sitting in the open gets eviscerated like it should be

That's what makes ATGMs scary

It adds more punishment to the game

In WW2 playing like that would get you nuked

In CW, without ATGMs, you can play so stupidly and still survive because you have way more health

[safe thunder]

You are just trying to justify missiles doing what they do

[hexed hawk]

Atgm's are supposed to be powerful

[sour sigil]

In war thunder some of main battle tanks does have blow out panels so the crew stay safe during the cook off in cost of half of the ammunition is gone so you will end up with other half of ammunition you carry.

[safe thunder]

I suppose that is slightly better than having your turret blown off at the start of a game just play the game with a compromised ammo count instead

[versed kite]

Dual weapon systems era2 will be last on my list for buffs, there s plenty single fire vehicles which re borderline useless

[magic plank]

30s

[hexed hawk]

Mine dosen't take 30 seconds

Regardless both are insane reloads for 1 shot

[magic plank]

Base is 30, with food and equipment, it can go down to around 23s.

Always use base when making comparisons.

[humble needle]

And there's plenty of borderline useless MWS tanks in Era 2

Arctic Hiss

M3A1

BMP-1

BMP-2

[chilly trout]

ngl they could give the 75

like 240 alpha

missles already hit hard

that 75 is just bad tho

[humble needle]

Only like three tanks serieses in game have blowout panels

Leclercs, Leopard 2s, and M1s

And they have limited protection as well

Only the ammo in the turret for these tanks is protected

All hull ammo (the main contributor for ammoracks) is left vulnerable

And tbh these tanks do not need any kind of buffs. They are strong enough in their current state (M1A2 and Leopard 2A5 arguably being a little too strong)

[humble needle]

Actually, yeah, I am. That's literally the whole point (of my argument) of the discussion we're having.

Idk what that's supposed to point out

[humble needle]

They do but the tank is massive and has a comically long reload + intraclip

[chilly trout]

I think the missiles are fine ngl

what's it a ten second intra

they are just

really

really

reallllllly

slowwwww

[thin summit]

and thats just by desing because those are first gen missles

at least its not the bantam atgms

tose things go 85 meters a sec

[ashen crow]

Why do you guys always go child in these things. I was talking about how non realistic it is. Not that they need to be one shot.

[thin summit]

wasnt talking bout you more tom/toby

[indigo oasis]

There isn't anything wrong with ATGMs at all... most of the times the people that don't like them are usually the ones that run out into the open & get killed.
Whenever I get hit by an ATGM it's mostly MY Fault.. because every time I do get hit is due to me being careless at times. Not only that but you have to have situational awareness too, keeping an eye on the map & seeing if there is a flank that's not covered, seeing how many idiots all face the same way while leaving a certain area open for the enemy to sneak in & counter... there's a good bit of situations but ATGMs are NOT the issue.

[safe thunder]

And the people that defend atgm’s are the people that play them

[indigo oasis]

People that assume they know what others play don't know what they are talking about.
I play everything, also whenever I play ATGMs, it's not often because I'm usually working on other tanks but that doesn't matter. What you said doesn't make sense, because you can "defend" something & not play it.. by the way it isn't really defending it's more of facts that what I said does happen a lot in game with people being stupid & getting killed fast .

[thin summit]

[safe thunder]

So you are basically saying if you get hit by missiles it’s because you aren’t playing properly

[indigo oasis]

When I get hit it's USUALLY, not all the time but MOST of the times when I play careless. When I play better by actually putting in more effort is when I don't get punished as much.
There's a lot of factors that play into all that of course but yea, basically it's when I'm not making the best decisions in game.

[humble needle]

A lot of the time, yeah, it actually is your fault.

If your flank is that open then you have made two issues:

1. Nobody is watching the flank.
2. You're over-extending yourself.

[safe thunder]

Missiles get to the target faster than they use to as well

[humble needle]

Fast, slow, hypersonic, borderline absolute zero, it doesn't matter. You being in the open ultimately is your undoing.

[safe thunder]

That’s the same argument as artillery players make

[hexed hawk]

Arty is more annoying then atgm's

It's not even close

[safe thunder]

They are just as bad as each other

[hexed hawk]

No

One can crossmap without any problems

The other requires line of sight to work and can actually fail to do any damage

[humble needle]

Funnily enough only 31.75% of my games in the last 30 days have been in vehicles capable of using ATGMs. I statistically have not been using ATGMs that much.
My buddy Csick only has 13.73% of his battles in the last 30 days with ATGM vehicles.
Your pal Toby has 38.13% of his battles in the last 30 days in ATGM vehicles.

It's ironic that the ATGM hater is the one using them the most. The projection is real.

[humble needle]

Red herring. Irrelevant.

[safe thunder]

Toby has been using them because he is doing the vt2 contract

[safe thunder]

So what is your most played tank ?

[thin summit]

y'rour*

welcome

[humble needle]

I see, so because it's only for his own benefit that the OP content is ok to use?

Also, comparing my stats to his, it's pretty damn funny.
Overall he's played 5239 battles in ATGM vehicles. That's 26.99% of his total CW battles.
Overall, I've played 3427 battles in ATGM vehicles. That's 37.50% of my overall battles.

Of course it isn't totally fair to compare our stats since he's played far more battles than me. However, my point still stands. For someone who hates ATGM vehicles a lot, he sure does play them a lot.

[safe thunder]

You are having a good poke around in his stats aren’t you

[humble needle]

Staying at the current 30 days discussion for this, and funnily enough it's the M3A2 by one battle, numbering at 36 battles. The Type 69-II is right behind it at 35.
And right behind those are the AMX 40 with 27, the Marder 1A3 with 26, and the AMX AC 48 with 23 battles.

[safe thunder]

Your most played tank of all time what is it ?

[humble needle]

The BMP-2 at 442 battles.

[thin summit]

do not check my most played

:)

[safe thunder]

Say no more

[safe thunder]

So you are adding the 7c the t72s and all the other tanks that can fire missiles amongst that

[humble needle]

Yeah I am

He did mention that they were fine if not too strong because they could access missiles

His words, not mine

[safe thunder]

You deliberately added those to inflate the numbers

[thin summit]

oh

my

lord

😫

[humble needle]

Interesting

[humble needle]

@safe thunder your pal here thinks all of these tanks are balanced, if not strong/too strong.

So I shouldn't be including them?

Even though he claims they are in no position to warrant buffs?

[safe thunder]

The t72s and the merkava’s and aren’t oriented around firing missiles

[humble needle]

If I shouldn't be including these in stats for not being problems, he shouldn't be calling them too good or good enough.

[thin summit]

lol

both the T-72s and merks are quite anemic

even if they are atgm capable

even after the T-72 got buffed they still lag behinhd

and the merks? their armor niche was taken away

so now they are just slow 2nd line tanks

[safe thunder]

They were too tough before they changed them

[thin summit]

too tough?

[safe thunder]

The merkava’s were too tough when they first came in

[humble needle]

Excerpt from the T-72B's in game description:
"... addition of the 9M119 anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) made the T-72B a more lethal vehicle."

This is an entirely new T-72 model, and one of the key features is that it was designed to fire 9M119s. If that's not orienting a vehicle around something, then idk what is.

[thin summit]

but also more stuff they upgraded with it making it a third gen tank

but yeah

they orientated it around the capability of firing the better atgms and new fcs

[humble needle]

It literally installed a new FCS to use these missiles

But uhhh

Ok!

Not oriented

[safe thunder]

I’m talking about in game

[humble needle]

So what orients it in game?

Rate of fire?

MWS?

Tank speed?

Camo?

Do tell

[humble needle]

What about the Molot, STRV 122A, and Osorio? Are they not too tough? Why is it unfair for a TT tank to have similar armor?

[safe thunder]

At what point did I say the 477 Osorio and strv 122 are fine as they are ?

[humble needle]

I never did or even insinuated you did. I asked three questions regarding three tanks.

First question regards your acknowledgement of other tanks possessing similar/greater armor thickness.
Second question seeks to find your take on the armor those tanks have.
Third question asks why you believe the armor wasn't fair.

[safe thunder]

The armour on the merkava’s wasn’t fair and that’s why they changed it end of story

[humble needle]

You've completely dodged all three of my questions.

But ignoring that

[safe thunder]

The 477 and the osario are too tough and the lower plate on the strv is a bit strong as well

[ashen crow]

Armor is a good thing just use diffrent ammo like the game is made for.

Thats why there is different ammo!

[humble needle]

True!

I should just load prammo

[ashen crow]

Stop ruining armor.

[humble needle]

Oh wait

The Molot is frontally impenetrable

Nevermind

Prammo doesn't work

[ashen crow]

Run He and the 477 falls like butter. Also who ever you are your blocked.

[humble needle]

Oh TRUE!

HE is a great counter

Oh wait

I'll only hit the Molot for ~300 damage in most tanks

While I get smacked back

For 760

Pog!!!

[humble needle]

AI generated pfp
Opinion immediately invalidated

[thin summit]

Wh

[ashen crow]

Um not sure they are blocked. The guy sending 9 messages.

[thin summit]

LOL

[ashen crow]

You can tell who could never play ww2 if they have an issue with using he.

Cw spoils players.

[humble needle]

LOL

My first Tier X TT tank was the Sturmtiger

My second Tier X was the Jagdpanzer E 100

I know how to use HE

[ashen crow]

@thin summit Is he replying to me or the post?

[thin summit]

🦑

[ashen crow]

Thats an adorable squid.

[dawn wharf]

Interesting

[ashen crow]

Whats interesting about this. Im confused on why vets dont use different ammo types?

[unkempt jewel]

Yes that is thrue, and its for one reason, and one reason alone. I grind vt2 contract and the easy way to get 140 kills are using rockets. As its childsplay to get multiple kills by using the bmp3, Bradley and Marder l use that as it speed up contract completion. Dirty play so l shower afther every game.
Hope you having fun snooping around my stats.

I am honored that you take the time to do thorough research.
Also grinding tt line with atgm tanks get into this statistics you proudly presents about me.

[wise agate]

it’s 2025 and dude is still complaining about missiles

[unkempt jewel]

Missed you man😊

[wise agate]

Like I haven’t checked discord for 3 months and the first thing I saw was this

But to be fair I’m not all for a buff for the AMX

[unkempt jewel]

Read the tred

[wise agate]

It doesn’t need it that badly

If I remembered correctly it was buffed not so long ago

[unkempt jewel]

It dos not..agree.. and really my first respond to this tred before it went off the rails

[wise agate]

I’m not saying it doesn’t, imo there are other tanks in era 2 that’s weaker than the AMX that need buffs

For example the cent 9

[unkempt jewel]

In era2 most tt tanks struggle with handling machine guns and atgms

[wise agate]

I think autocannons are a bigger problem than atgms

The Wiesel 1MK is miles more OP than the Wiesel TOW

[unkempt jewel]

Right now era2 s biggest issues are the wiesel and begleitpanzer

[wise agate]

Not the bagle lmao it’s doesn’t even compete with the ELC

Even the ignis is more broken than the bagle

[lone nova]

This does not compute.

[unkempt jewel]

Played it the other day and it got+5k damage in 2 minutes so l think its a bit too out there

[wise agate]

As for the AMX, it’s not a bad tank, it could be better but it’s still a pretty solid tank and can pull off some fantastic results

[lone nova]

I would argue into increasing intra clip reload and accuracy plus aiming time, reducing slightly circle bloom, and i can also see the slight speed bump, but no mega alpha change, even worse for a 75mm gun.

[wise agate]

So? That doesn’t explain anything

[magic plank]

Regardless, 180 alpha is too low

[lone nova]

Agreed, can we leave personal experience and go with raw data and stats please?

[unkempt jewel]

How many tanks can manage that

[magic plank]

A lot

[wise agate]

Honestly, a lot

I have 5 in mind rn

[unkempt jewel]

Ok.

Those are?

[lone nova]

180 x 6 = 1080, the problem is not really the alpha per shot, but the intra clip of 2 seconds, is should be reduced.

[wise agate]

Ignis, BMP-2, Sheridan, ELC, M3A1

And probably a lot more

[magic plank]

CH/120, CTR, Leopard 1A5, vickers mk.3, all the AMX 30s, the Chieftain mk.5, both Conquerors

[magic plank]

That's where we disagree. 1080 is very low for an autoloader, especially one on a platform as the SS-11.

[wise agate]

If I were to buff the AMX, I would increase the alpha to 200, or buff the accuracy

[unkempt jewel]

All atgms

[wise agate]

But that might be a little too strong considering it has 1200 alpha missiles

[lone nova]

I would 100% agree with you, but the thing is this tank has also ATGM launchers as a secondary weapon, so i would reduce the intra clip to at least 1.5 secs per shot and increase all over accuracy and aiming time, plus i agree with you with the Horsepower bump.

[wise agate]

Yeah, and?

[unkempt jewel]

No conventional

[magic plank]

I mean, the ATGMs have a 38s reload and "only" have 8 shots.

And a 15s intra

[magic plank]

Pretty much every one I listed are conventional

[wise agate]

Wdym not conventional lol the bagle has atgms too

[magic plank]

He's saying that none of the tanks you listed only have 1 gun

And aren't ATGM based

[wise agate]

Yeah, but the bagel has 2 guns

[magic plank]

He wants examples of tanks without MWS and aren't ATGM based.

[wise agate]

Well

Still a lot to be fair

[magic plank]

^

[lone nova]

Yeah it looks like it stands in the same spot as the BMP-1 those tanks also need a slight revision, but in the case of the AMX i would argue to make it more lethal without breaking it, would still be to increase to base stats of Accuracy, intra clip and aiming time and Horsepower.
We can argue to add more ATGMS but how many? 4? 2?

[magic plank]

I dont think it can be broken unless it were made a TD, got a faster top speed and better engine. The AMX 13 platform isn't very good.

If we were to talk about the ATGM increase it'd have to be 4, I'd rather have a usable 75mm than more ATGMs tbf.

[wise agate]

Nah 12

[magic plank]

8 + 4 = 12

[pale fjord]

Just had to point out that there are more tanks with blowout panels than those you listed. There's also the obj.640, amx 40, strv122 and tr85m1. Those also have blowout panels. I think the t55 agm does too, but I'm not sure. What is true is that it's something you only find on gen 3 tanks, don't know of any that aren't.

[wise agate]

Opps I didn’t read that correctly

[magic plank]

All good

[wise agate]

I thought you want it to have 4 lol

I think the most reasonable buff for the AMX would be to increase its accuracy on the main gun

[magic plank]

That would be the safest, but still wouldn't make it usable IMO

[wise agate]

It’s not unusable

[lone nova]

Well the Begleit is broken AF and is not a TD, it has everything but armor, and tanks like the RDF do have your alpha but that tank relies on a single weapon system, hence why i argue to make the AMX's 75 more of a fast and accurate gun, instead of giving it more damage, and if WG ever release the 90mm and 105mm versions (WHICH IT SHOULD) it would go for those.

[wise agate]

It’s okay in its current state

[magic plank]

I'd say it's pretty close.

[wise agate]

But a buff would be nice

[magic plank]

In regards for the RDF, it's biggest asset is the alpha in combination with the intra

[lone nova]

And great accuracy

[magic plank]

320 with a 2s intra is pretty mediocre

(Looks at the Mauler)

[wise agate]

Not mediocre lol it can clear 90% of a tank’s health in one clip

[magic plank]

It's about exposure time

[lone nova]

In a perfect scenario it can, unless you are shooting at a bot, an enemy is going to move or bounce.

[wise agate]

Yeah

[magic plank]

Also, that.

It has to expose itself a lot, and with how punishing era 2 can be, that 2s intra does hurt the Mauler more than it helps.

[lone nova]

I don't have the Mauler but i am guessing it works similar to the RDF, a long range autoloading sniper?

[magic plank]

Kinda, but worse than the RDF in every way but speed.

But yeah, given how the Mauler performs with that alpha and intra, if the pen were left the same on the AMX SS-11, I feel as it would be rather balanced for 320 alpha.

[wise agate]

But you have to consider the fact that it has 4x 1200 damage missiles

[magic plank]

Yup

That's why you leave the pen accuracy, and top speed alone.

[wise agate]

I mean missiles are very balanced but it would still be a big difference with and without them

[magic plank]

Without them, the tank feels like a wet noodle tbf

[wise agate]

Eh not really

It’s still a decent tank

[supple apex]

The ATGMs, excluding perhaps their module damage, are balanced.
The rest of the tank feels decorative though

[magic plank]

Without the ATGMs, it's a worse T92

[wise agate]

Just not as strong as other light tanks, for example the bagle and BMP

[wise agate]

But it has them

Which is a whole different story

[magic plank]

And when its on reload, or fired all 8, it becomes useless

[safe thunder]

Oh you are the guy that clones peoples accounts aren’t you

[wise agate]

I’m not lmao

[safe thunder]

You most certainly are

[wise agate]

But it reloads kinda quick

8 secs

[magic plank]

Sure, but when it doesn't deal damage, can't pen reliably, inaccurate, and can't move around, that 8s reload doesn't mean much.

[magic plank]

Thus, this suggestion. It would help it when it's on reload, or out of ATGMs, while not being overpowered. The platform leaves a lot to be desired.

[wise agate]

The thing is though ur theory is all based on if it doesn’t have missiles

[magic plank]

It isn't though

It's a worse gun overall when compared to the Mauler. I'm only talking about the 320 alpha and 2s intra when bringing it up.

It won't have the speed, pen, accuracy, armor, or profile of the Mauler.

Through my time 3 marking the SS-11, the 75mm felt largely decorative, and when I ran out of ATGMs or on reload, I felt useless.

[wise agate]

Honestly, if you manage to use all your missiles then the results won’t be too bad

[magic plank]

And that was before the Wiesel 1 mk.

[magic plank]

Not always

[wise agate]

I 3 marked mine before the Wiesel too

I sort of stopped playing after the release of the 1MK

[magic plank]

Low velocity, and getting into a match with lots of composite can severely hamper how effective it's ATGMs can be.

[wise agate]

But u gotta know what and where to hit

[magic plank]

Sure, but thst isn't always in your hands

[wise agate]

For example you ain’t gonna fire a missile at the face of the T-72AV

[magic plank]

It'd be nice to be able to defend yourself when being forced into 100m, on reload, or out of ATGMs.

Because right now, it can't.

[wise agate]

That’s why I think the arming distance thing isn’t well designed

[magic plank]

Too slow to run away, too large hide, 75mm can't deal damage.

[wise agate]

It has some serious flaws

[magic plank]

Taking those factors into account, is why I feel as 320 alpha would be a safe change.

[wise agate]

Anyway you have your point and I respect it but I don’t think 320 alpha is the best solution

[magic plank]

Going a bit off topic, but man it has some bad stats now.

[lone nova]

Yeah sorry mate but i agree with the squirrel, the alpha is not the way.

[safe thunder]

320 a shot on the amx 13 ss 11 is that what you want ?

[wise agate]

Didn’t really look into it but I believe what you say

Though a better fix would be to buff the accuracy

[magic plank]

That would just make it more consistent at range, it still has a low damage output in close range

And at range, it should be using ATGMs anyway

[wise agate]

Yeah but you’re not always in close quarters

Also 320x6 with 1200x4 missiles is honestly pretty crazy

[magic plank]

I guess my point is, that I want it to be able to do something outside it's ATGMs.

[magic plank]

I almost never actually use the 75mm at range. It's potential isn't worth the exposure time.

[wise agate]

I do

[magic plank]

Before the Wiesel that is

[safe thunder]

So it has a 75mm gun and you want to do 320 per shot and the scorpion 90 has a 90mm gun and does 280 per shot that doesn’t seem fair to me

[magic plank]

It just can't afford to be exposed often now adays

[wise agate]

Don’t expose it then

[magic plank]

This thread isn't about the Scorpion 90

[magic plank]

Then how will you do damage?

[wise agate]

Use your concealment and mobility to your advantage, keep relocating and flanking

[magic plank]

I'm talking about being in cover vs not being in cover.

[safe thunder]

I’m pointing out the un fairness in what you are suggesting

[magic plank]

To shoot a target, you often have to put yourself in a more exposed position.

Regardless if you are spotted or being targeted.

[wise agate]

Yeah but you ain’t gonna face hug a FV4211 with that thing

[magic plank]

Again, irrelevant.

[wise agate]

It’s not a frontline tank

[magic plank]

With how era 2 is right now, it's risk for extended exposure time is too high to justify the use of the 75mm

[magic plank]

Never said it was

[wise agate]

That’s true, but even if you increase the alpha to 320 it ain’t gonna solve the problem you mentioned

[magic plank]

It will lower exposure time for damage.

[safe thunder]

No it’s not irrelevant the missiles do 1210 damage per shot and you want the gun to do more damage per shot than the scorpion 90 when it has a bigger caliber gun and it’s only got one weapon

[lone nova]

1200? i think you are confusing it with the ELC EVEN

[wise agate]

According to that logic, the BMP-2 does 15 damage with 30mm auto cannon, Bradley does 30 with 25mm auto cannon so the Bradley is unfair

[magic plank]

Again, this thread isn't about the Scorpion 90. It isn't relevant to this conversation. If you want it buffed make another thread.

And I'm not going to get pulled into a whatabout conversation

[safe thunder]

The amx 13 ss 11 does 1210 damage per shot

On the missiles

[wise agate]

ELC is 1300

[safe thunder]

Usual response

[magic plank]

You literally said 320 isn't fair because the Scorpion 90 only has 280. That is a "what about" talking point.

[safe thunder]

I said 280 not 240

[wise agate]

I find it funny to compare it with the scorpion because they’re different tanks, but honestly speaking 320 alpha is insane

[magic plank]

I'd say it's more in line with other 75mm guns

[wise agate]

The only other 75mm that does the same is the Rdf

[magic plank]

There is more 75mm guns in era 2 with 320 than there is at 180, or 280.

[wise agate]

Hmm

Are there

[magic plank]

And they are in a much healthier position now, than either the T92 or SS-11 are in currently.

[wise agate]

The Rdf is the only one with that crazy alpha

[magic plank]

Yup. 3, Mauler, RDF and BMP-1 all have 320 alpha on their 73/75mm guns.

[wise agate]

Well

Okay then

[lone nova]

• / - Yeah agreed.

[wise agate]

@magic plank Anyway I’m going grocery shopping, was a nice conversation with you. I respect and appreciate your opinions even I don’t fully agree.

[lone nova]

But we can mostly agree that it needs a buff in some way

[wise agate]

Yeah

Just not that way haha

[magic plank]

Yup

Only thing I'm actually against it getting buffed in, is the ATGM count.

[wise agate]

My fridge is empty lol

I’m off to get some food

Laters

[lone nova]

Get me cookies XD

[wise agate]

Lmao I will send a delivery to ur home

[languid halo]

In your dreams, you still gotta play it like a sniper

[ashen crow]

How would you want it to play?

Not every tank is a pusher. Being an ambush hunter and finding good spots to flank is the point.

[magic plank]

Sniper mostly

[ashen crow]

Well sniper usually sits in one spot. Thats why I say ambush.

[magic plank]

Issues arise when forced into cqc or get a small map.

Which happens a lot now adays

[ashen crow]

True, however what can the rak do. So its still got something as long as you watch the mini map.

[languid halo]

I’d like for it to be able to actually somewhat fight off people trying to yolo me

Not even brawl or anything

It’s a free kill to Wiesels and Vads

[ashen crow]

True the gun is awful nowadays. Most tanks out dps.

[magic plank]

The Rak has better camo, is faster, can only expose its missiles, and has full reverse speed.

[languid halo]

Yeah

[magic plank]

That's my mindset as well

[languid halo]

Like I said, I don’t want it to be op, but it needs a Dps buff on the 75mm

[ashen crow]

Right, so none of them should be on their own and not trying to assassinate enemy tanks.

[magic plank]

Issues is, it's too slow to keep up

[ashen crow]

The M50 has a similar issue

[languid halo]

Sadly you’re right

[ashen crow]

Yes its camo is amazing but those guns.

[magic plank]

It will end up alone sooner or later, and doesn't have any stats to rely on other than the missiles.

[ashen crow]

Right isnt that the balance of atgm? Stay far or die.

[magic plank]

It's an issue of the platform

[ashen crow]

Plz explain?

[magic plank]

65m arming distance works well for ATGM tanks.

[ashen crow]

I agree entirely with that.

Shot guns atgm was too much.

[languid halo]

The 100m arming distance is a bit much on tanks like the BMP-1 and the Amx-13

[ashen crow]

Dummy rockets I still find fun for that play though.

[ashen crow]

Mabey adjust it based on the atgm. The slow one arm faster. While fast rockets are faster so longer distance.

[magic plank]

It's slow, has no armor, has a long ATGM reload, long ATGM intra, low ATGM count, low ATGM velocity, bad 75mm pen, low 75mm velocity, bad 75mm accuracy, mediocre camo, and mediocre gun depression.

Most of those issues are related to the AMX 13 platform, not the ATGMs directly

[ashen crow]

Yeah I was playing yesterday. You can still get 5k but you have to try alot harder.

Its the age issue war gamming lets old tanks rot.

[languid halo]

It’s still a fun tank, but wg has neglected it

Simply put

[ashen crow]

A small speed bost could help too since the new light tanks go so fast.

[magic plank]

Tbf though, I've had issues with the 75mm and speed since it launched.

[languid halo]

Yeah

[magic plank]

I've never liked it

[languid halo]

Or just nerf A few Lights speed

[ashen crow]

Agreed. It was a atgm tank only basically

[languid halo]

Like the Wiesel

[magic plank]

I love ATGM based tanks, just not the SS-11

[ashen crow]

They wont. You know they wont. At least they did change the weisel a little.

[magic plank]

And the Arctic HISS

[ashen crow]

Im Finally getting the Jaguar 1 tomorrow! So excited.

Missed every time it was sold.

[magic plank]

One of my easier 3 marks

That was before the arming distance tho

[safe thunder]

So it’s ok to use the clown emoji is it ?

[ashen crow]

Yeah? Any tips for set up? Yiu can pm if your willing.

[languid halo]

It’s in my top 5 tank list.

The jaguar is really good if you can be sneaky

[ashen crow]

Im so excited. The bmp 3 has been my pride and butter for rockets so Im hopping Ill do good with it.

[languid halo]

If you shoot at the front idler wheel on a molot it’ll pen

[ashen crow]

Really, thats helpful TY.

[languid halo]

Np

Ooh, and it can ammo rack like a mad man

[ashen crow]

Good, I already ammo rack in the bmp so this will probably be a monster.

[languid halo]

Yeah

Btw

How in the world do you even pen more than 5k in the bmp3?

I’ve never been able to do much in the BMP-3

[ashen crow]

Well, some of it is it just works for me. I like to say I play like an assassin. So shoot move. Watch for bad decisions. I also have a good group of people I can trust to back me up or reverse.

[languid halo]

Ah okay, thanks dude

[ashen crow]

Np, sorry Im more casual so I cant give you good advice. Its more instincts and good on the fly decisions. However its why I cant be consistent. So 3 marks still alude me.

[chilly trout]

they didn't really buff anything

if anything needs a buff ob this terrible power crept tank

it's 75mm alpha damage

and missle speed

[chilly trout]

it does rdf has a 75 and does 320

that 75 180 is just completely usless in era 2

especially when other lights have

better missiles
better primary guns with better alpha and gun handling
better mobility and the list goes on

that things time to kill is actually so bad the Bradley eats it up for breakfast

the Bradley for gods sakes

like doesn't matter if u buff the intra on anything on it when

other lights just delete you in seconds with auto cannons

and the rdf would just dogwalk this tank (also has a 75 it also used to have a horrible ttk)

180 for 6 shots for 1000 damage yeah no

ur effectively tickling the enemy and ur missles are so slow people can dodge them

by the time you dumped that full mag a rdf would've done double the damage

oh and elc does a better job at being a missle platform

really this tank serves zero purpose right now

[chilly trout]

it's honestly is the best solution

everything just out dpms you

out trades you

out speeds you

out time to kills you

[humble needle]

122A is a Leopard 2, but I get your point

[humble needle]

Nah I don't like the idea of 320

It'd turn the vehicle into a pseudo-RDF/LT with missiles

[lone nova]

Yeah a more agile and fast reacting gun, with some extra tank acceleration is how i would approach a buff.

[magic plank]

Nah, the RDF platform and gun are overall MUCH better

The AMX 13 75 platform and gun will never be as good as the RDF and ADMAG gun.

It'd also bring it up to the closest thing that 70mm guns in era 3 have as a standard.

[chilly trout]

240

[humble needle]

I didn't say it would be better

I just said it'd be similar

[magic plank]

Similar, but only in terms of alpha

[humble needle]

6-shot 75mm gun on a decently agile platform

[magic plank]

Don't worry, the SS-11 isn't mobile

[humble needle]

Neither is the RDF

[magic plank]

RDF is much more so than the SS-11

[humble needle]

SS-11 has worse hp/w but better turning and max speed

[magic plank]

The power to weight difference is massive

Super noticeable

[humble needle]

Regardless they still have decent mobility

[magic plank]

The engine on the SS-11 makes it immobile

Especially for a light tank

[humble needle]

Idk why we're even comparing them statistically

I was just trying to make a conceptual comparison

[lone nova]

Yeah but is some kind of special 76 mm gun with great optics, and is the only gun it has, it is kind of BS that it has so much ALPHA per shot but what bugs me is that it has a faster intra clip than the AMX given that the AMX has such low ALPHA

[magic plank]

Veering off course a little, but the RDF-LT could be firing faster. IRL, it's documented to have a maximum RoF of 2 rounds a second, but was limited to .85s.

[ashen crow]

That would help, its not like the overall dmg would be different.

[versed kite]

I wonder.. those people who want dual system amx13 ss11 buffed, do you consider vehicles like wz132-3, type63hg, type 80-II, t92, sheridan, scorpion 90, chieftain mk5 balanced? Because i would probably pick to play AMX over those any the time

[magic plank]

No, and this thread isn't about them.

Make a separate thread if you want to talk about other lights and the buffs they need.

[versed kite]

Oh sry my bad😯 so how many out of 718 replies are exactly about AMX? 🤔
Ps- did u just talked about RDF LT? That s ... weird🤔

[thin summit]

None of the tanks you mentioned here are balanced they're all garbage

The only maybe decent one being the scorpion 90

And Sheridan if you're competent enough

Every other tank is garbage
Point. Blank. Period

No matter which way you spin it

The amx 13 ss11 having atgms does not make it not worthy of being buffed

It needs to be buffed up more

[magic plank]

Tbf, he's just goading and trolling at this point.

[thin summit]

"balaned" = good

Not decent, not anemic, not garbage, not op

good

Most tanks are simply not balanced

Ss11 is decent, so it needs buffs to be good

Therefore, more buffs to make it actually balanced in the field it's playing in

Before the buffs it got recently it was anemic, now it's decent

[magic plank]

The buffs it got didn't change anything for it

[hexed hawk]

Made the 75mm more accurate

Which is nice

[humble needle]

No it's now the most op tank in game

We need FV4211 buffs

530 alpha

Like rn

And twice the horsepower

[thin summit]

So true Dakota

[hexed hawk]

Give the fv4211 rocket boosters

[thin summit]

This was the big thing

Prior it was quite literally useless aside from against a few tanks

[hexed hawk]

Yeah

[thin summit]

Even then it's damage output is still too low

[hexed hawk]

Literally the only reason I have the amx13 ss-11 tca is because it was tank of the month awhile ago

[thin summit]

It's a tank I personally want, but I would probably never use unless it got the full buffs it needs

[magic plank]

Doesn't really matter much since it's bugged and you have to wait 2 or 3s before you can fire after swapping weapons.

[thin summit]

I am not putting myself through anemic crap again like the T-80 line

[hexed hawk]

Yeah it's unfortunate

[humble needle]

Accuracy desync that was never fixed is peak

[hexed hawk]

Play the tr85-m1

[thin summit]

Good news they're actually looking into it

finally

[humble needle]

They said that last time

Until they actually fix it, their word means nothing

[thin summit]

This time it's not the desync itself but the servers

[humble needle]

Anyway back to TCA stats

Horrible issue with fires

Almost every match I see that thing in it is larping as the human torch

[versed kite]

Irrelevant.

[languid halo]

Molot needs buffs, 100kph 5 second reload, ICBM missiles strapped to its rear.

[humble needle]

Give it a burst autoloader as well lmao

[languid halo]

Shotgun