M50 balance

[void elm]

buffs:

• speed 48km/h -> 55km/h
• shell velocity 500m/s -> 730m/s

nerfs:

• concleament 49m -> 79m (crew and equipment)
• reload 32sec -> 35sec

[sharp pine]

Reload 50sec (full clip)

[void elm]

that would be longest reload in the game

[sharp pine]

Yaw limit 40 -> 35

[left osprey]

What's the rationale for the proposal?

[void elm]

well, it’s slowest era 2 tank (expect conqueror mk 2), and one of the slowest rounds in cw, and has literally best concleament in era 2, and dpm is too high and reload needs nerf

[sharp pine]

If speed gets buff other things need to be nerfed my opinion dmg is too good so nerf re load to make dpm worse

[sage hill]

The point of it's slow velocity is due to be having recoilless guns

[sharp pine]

Velocity could stay but speed and dpm balance

[left osprey]

I don't have an issue with the shell velocity, and the slow speed makes the camo balanced in my opinion (it wouldn't be on a faster tank).

I've not heard anyone say the DPM is too high before though. I Thought it was in the middle ground for Era 2.

I fully acknowledge that I am biased towards this tank in particular though. It's my most played Era 2 tank, and I've done decently in it.

I would very happily accept a RoF reduction if given the same damage per shot as the T114 though, seeing how they share guns.

[sharp pine]

Dpm is avg but with that dmg potential its too good

[sharp pine]

can easily 1v1 era 3 tanks

[void elm]

M50 can literally destroy most of era 2 tanks with one clip, and i said camo needs nerf so it can be faster

[void elm]

skill issue

[sharp pine]

Still it should not have chance to win easily

[left osprey]

A full clip with HEAT will struggle to kill a same tier tank, which usually have close to 3k health for the tier 3s. In fact, I don't think it can one clip any Era 2 tank that isn't tier 1.

HESH is a different matter, but you have the unreliability of HESH

2340 is the average roll for 6 shots of 390 damage HEAT. Crippling, but not enough to kill most tanks it sees

[void elm]

still deals very much dmg at short time

it just needs speed buff and camo nerf and it’s alright

[torpid crow]

I think the Ontos is doing just fine. It really is super slow. However, it makes up for that in other ways.

If you don't like a slow tank, don't play it. Although it really moves fine. It is just that other tanks are super fast.

Having slower and faster tanks is GOOD for the game and adds variety.

[void elm]

but cannot escape very well

[left osprey]

That's the trade-off.
I personally quite enjoy it as-is

[idle zenith]

I'm confused wouldn't this make landing the clip easier? And part of what keeps it from being toxic is that it rarely hits/pens all shots and once it fires its too slow to escape

[torpid crow]

Not with speed. But it can escape with stealth. Pop smoke and disappear. I "see" them do that all the time.

[opaque pendant]

I would NOT give up anything on reload that's beyond silly and acceptable and that tank needs its camo, it has ZERO armor in world of Pew Pew Pew lights and ATGMs and most of the rest of the tanks and high pen HE if they don't have those other two attributes. It does need a speed and velocity buff also consider changing it's Heat to a slower velocity AP round !!!!

[opaque pendant]

Do you dabble in the ONTOS much ? It needs a bit of a speed boost for sure and only using super slow velocity HEAT in a world of spaced/reactive armor sets it back quite a bit as well.

[torpid crow]

I have played it. It works just fine for what it does. The Ontos is just very different than other tanks.

If all the tanks are the same the game will be lame.

[opaque pendant]

I would still keep it at slower shell velocity for balance reasons like 700 something, like he suggested

[fast vault]

Ontos is a specialist. It's an ambush predator that works best when it dumps all it's rounds into a target and the relocates right after.

[tired reef]

I love the Ontos. Its a great tank that requires a bit of a learning curve to excell at it. Map awareness and so on. Its a good teacher and is much more tolerable than say… ATGM tanks prior to the recent balance changes.
Camo on Ontos allows you to passively scout which is great fun getting right in with the red team… rubbing shoulders with the fellas… “Hey dont mind me… im just letting my guys know where the action is”….pay no attention to me sitting in this bush 60 meters from you.

Ontos makes the game fun trying to sneak behind the reds without getting caught…try it its hilarious spotting the team and watching them try to figure out why they never get unspotted.

It needs no changes IMO.

[frozen pendant]

Don't buff the speed.

We don't need Weisel 2.0.
A slight increase to shell velocity and it would be perfect imo.

[north island]

You must be trolling. The m50 is small and slow. With how fast and heavy era 3 tanks are, it would get crushed, and with how accurate and high pen era 3 guns are, easily shot too. That's not even counting the fact that it would have to empty 2 clips to kill an era 3, leaving the era 3 with a lot of time to jump on it and destroy it. Not to mention that many are very frontally armored too, and without another tank to distract it, the m50 won't see the rear and sides.
Maybe it would stand a chance against a light tank, but it wouldn't easily win, and there are quite many era 2 tanks that could defeat era 3 lights.

[torpid crow]

He isn't trolling. I have seen Ontos get top of the leader board. I have seen them take out tanks 1v1. Even out numbered 1v2.

Don't underestimate an ontos.

[north island]

Uh huh, and would you tell me how exactly that happens without the ontos sneaking behind while the tank is distracted?
That's the only way, and it's not only unlikely for it to be able to do that to an era 3 without other tanks in the picture, but the era 3 also has more than enough hp to take it, if it doesn't turn around first, and crush it while reloading, and the slow m50 won't get away.

I have it too, and I got big damage in it too.
Unless you have the opportunity to take them by surprise or they have no armor, you ain't doing anything.

[torpid crow]

It is an Era 2 tank. So doesn't meet Era 3.

[north island]

He was claiming that it can easily defeat an era 3 1v1.

That's why I said what I said.

[torpid crow]

Either way an ontos in game does well enough.

[north island]

But only under certain conditions, which will not be met in a 1v1, nevermind with an era 3 tank.

You have to play it very opportunisticly because of that.

[opaque pendant]

It does need a bit of a speed buff, why is that you people always go to extremes when you react to both buff and nerf suggestions. Sorry Not Sorry to use "you people" but that's exactly what I see from this community. They just assume that someone isn't suggesting something subtle and reasonable. Nobody said "Wiesel 2.0" but say a little horsepower buff, and 60kmh would be good for the tank. It already does what 48 ? But it's very sluggish and can't run away at all once detected. It needs a reasonable amount of speed for its lack of armor and hit points.

[void elm]

i said something like 60km/h, most of tanks are faster than that and ontos is twice big as wiesel

[frozen pendant]

There are only 2 balancing factors with the ONTOS preventing it from being OP.
The 48kph top speed and the horrendous shell velocity.

I support a decent buff to shell velocity. 700m a sec would be fine without breaking the tank.

It doesn't need speed. The ONTOS practically doesn't get detected unless it fires.

Allowing a tank with camo that broken to be go 60kph would 100% result in a yolo hit and run play style. It would simply be too easy to disengage from a fight because the ONTOS is very small, effectively does not get detected unless firing, and with a 60kph top speed (it could go 69kph with speed equipment) allowing it to easily escape.

I tank with OP concealment yoloing around at 69kph with equipment and a 2k damage clip that dumps in 7.5s doesn't sound very balanced to me.

[sharp pine]

read my gun balance stuff

[void elm]

i still suggested some nerfs

[opaque pendant]

You don't always have to have nerfs for buffs, I would give any nerfs to this tank.

[void elm]

thats how balance works

[opaque pendant]

It doesn't always have to be that way for every tank, some just need buffs, and others nerfs. They don't all need both, and imo the Ontos needs somewhat of a speed buff, then fine buff it's top speed to 55 or and even 10 to 58, and give it's gun a velocity in the mid 700's and call it a day. It's still not fast or high velocity with those buffs, just not bottom barrel in those catagories anymore.

Actually it still might be bottom barrel in Era 2 in those catagories, but it least it's not that bad ? What's the velocity on the M113 Heat ?

[fast vault]

503 m/s.

Same as the Ontos.

[opaque pendant]

Yep looking right now, Ty for that, but me personally, I would still be fine with the Ontos having 730-50m/s

[fast vault]

I was on game. So I checked.

[opaque pendant]

Ty for that, btw 👍

[fast vault]

Does the Ontos or M113 get access to advanced reload?

[opaque pendant]

No it does not.

[fast vault]

I skee.