MoE has been inflated so much by bot farming that you need 10k average damage per game to gold mark the Begleitpanzer and 12k average damage to maintain gold mark in the Wiesel.
And before anyone says it, yes I admit I’ve played bots to get some of my MoE but I stopped doing it about 3 months ago and all of my recent MoEs have given me a sense of accomplishment because there were no bots involved.
#Make the damage done in bot games not count for MoE
digital lintel
viscid burrow
Agree. MoEs are almost meaningless with all the players seeking out bots.
It's especially annoying for players who aren't bot farming when they're trying to 3 mark tanks that excel against bots but can be a struggle against real players.
3 marked tanks used to have some meaning. If you saw somebody with 3 marks you knew they were a good player. Now it's like "eh they might be above average."
Golds don't even mean much these days.
tall harbor
Moe is a shame nowadays, impressive how blitz is better then what we have, by simply not have it
thick ridge
Well yes and no. I agree a MOE obtained after 6.0 is not as, let say, meaning full as to one before. Sadly in 2024 Bots are here to stay. I could see MOEs affected by "Bots don't count" in a negative way for a player chasing them. For example, you get a game with 1/2 the sides made up with bots. You are playing and the Red 'humans' start getting picked off by the greens but not you. The game ends in a win or lose and your personal results are OK BUT you haven't damaged many Red humans, mainly bots (even though you were looking for humans). You would get a "negative MOE return" not because of a lack of skill or effort on your part. If Bots didn't count it would impact each game for players not chasing MOEs which I would imagine is the majority of players.
viscid burrow
Well yes and no. I agree a MOE obtained after 6.0 is not as, let say, meaning fu...
I could be wrong but I if understand @digital lintel correctly he's not suggesting that damage done to bots not count toward MoE. That would cause the issues you described.
I believe that he's suggesting games with bots in them not count at all towards MoE. So they won't hurt or help your marks grind.
thick ridge
Ok, apologies to the OP if I misunderstood. So, I do say 12,000 damage etc to humans and or Bots and I get personal MOE credit for the round. BUT my personal result does not feed into the Community MOE calculations for damage I did to Bots. Correct?
mighty saffron
MoE is a personal achievement. Why does it matter to you?
Squirrel you literally gold marked era 3s and now all of a sudden you want bot farmed games to not count. Sounds like you just want to gate keep MoEs to keep yours special 🙄
If you don't want a bot farmed mark don't farm bots. Simple as that
dark wraith
mighty saffron
It actually is just insane level of gate keeping though lol
I can bot farm MoE but don't allow anyone else to
the marks already mean nothing, people already have gotten plenty of gold marks. To remove it now just feels wrong
It's a personal achievement. If you are anti bot farmed marks just don't bot farm and then you can be proud of your marks?? It's literally that simple🤣
digital lintel
Squirrel you literally gold marked era 3s and now all of a sudden you want bot f...
The only gold mark I have is the Wiesel. And all of my MoEs are PvP except the Bradley and BMP-3
viscid burrow
Ok, apologies to the OP if I misunderstood. So, I do say 12,000 damage etc to hu...
I think he means that if a single bot is in a game the entire game will have no effect on MoE. So if you are at 65% and you get a bot game you will stay at 65% regardless of how well or poorly you do and tie performance will not affect the average damage statistics.
vague cedar
This doesn’t apply as much in WW2, but you do realize that it’s actually kinda rare to get a game without at least one bot at times? Like I’ve had days when I’m playing at prime time on the NA server and I consistently have 1-2 bots per team.
If MOE was based on a % of the opposing team’s HP, then I could see removing bot HP from that calculation, but what you are proposing is just completely impractical and makes marking impossible for anyone that works a shift other than 9-5.
viscid burrow
This doesn’t apply as much in WW2, but you do realize that it’s actually kinda r...
Yea it really should be if there are 4 bots or more the game has no impact on MoE.
That way it only negatively impacts a small group.
regal bramble
As much as I agree with this, there needs to be some leeway with regards to players in regions if the world which have no choice but to play on NA/EU at obscure hours of the day
Have where during peak hours have a max of 1/2 bots per team will still count for more progression then any other time a max of 3/4 bots.
old bone
Wait, how does someone play bots to get MoE's? Am I missing something here?
austere cosmos
That would not work on PS as there are always mostly bots in games unless you enable crossplay.
digital lintel
Just a clarification, in my opinion they should make it so that the damage you done in games with more than 4 bots on each team doesn’t count for your MoE which means the percentage won’t change no matter how much damage you did, but it will still give them XP and silver.
vague cedar
Wait, how does someone play bots to get MoE's? Am I missing something here?
The entire argument is that it is easier to farm bots to improve your Marks Of Excellence (MOE).
Bots tend to show up occasionally even at prime times (I’ve seen 7-8 bots in lobbies at times like 9pm est on a Friday). It is possible to play at off times (say 2-3am) when fewer players are on to get more bots b/c it’s typically easier to improve your MOE when it’s just bots.
I will say, in some cases bots are better teammates than randoms tho.
old bone
Is this in Classic and CW?
vague cedar
Overall, I’m very much against anything that goes back to making marking even harder again b/c it’s simply impossible to throw out a blanket statement like this and to be fair to people that are forced to play at off times due to work or whatever other irl circumstances they are in
vague cedar
Is this in Classic and CW?
Bots are more common in CW, but it happens in both
old bone
Huh.
vague cedar
I think most of the earlier discussion was geared towards CW, but imo, that’s even worse b/c it’s even harder to get full teams there
thick ridge
I think he means that if a single bot is in a game the entire game will have no ...
When I play (Australia) I would probably never get another MOE due to Bots in a game. It would take weeks to get 'countable' games compared to a day or 2 for US/EU players. So I don't like that idea.
viscid burrow
When I play (Australia) I would probably never get another MOE due to Bots in a ...
Yea I think the general consensus now is that games that have 3 or 4 bots should count toward MoE.
Games with more bots than that shouldn't.
covert quarry
That would not work on PS as there are always mostly bots in games unless you en...
Why would you not have crossplay on anyway 🤦♀️
tall harbor
Basically just nulify the match if there are more then 3 bots per team
No moe reducing, neither increasing
Threat as a coop match
austere cosmos
The entire argument is that it is easier to farm bots to improve your Marks Of E...
Farming bots is easier only in the maps where they are completely broken, like for example Province and Mountain Pass, where the bots are just cluster f* each other in 2 big piles and can be easily farmed. In the rest of the battles they are outperforming human players with accuracy and sometimes very hard to beat especially if you are the only human player in the game. Moreover, bots does give you spotting damage which makes playing lights with bots challenging.
digital lintel
Overall, I’m very much against anything that goes back to making marking even ha...
If they actually do what I said, grinding MoE would be easier because it won’t be as inflated as it is now
It will actually take skill
dire widget
Maybe damage done to players can be a different category than damage done to bots. Both count towards a players MOE.
But the damage done to bots does not count towards the MOE requirements. That way bot farming doesn't push up the requirements for full pvp players. Those sorry sods that have to try to get a moe against all real players. Right now they are getting shafted.
cold arch
Here is another take, Make it where the times when there are more BOTS active, and you have a game full of BOTS it won't count towards it, and this is per server.
thick ridge
Maybe damage done to players can be a different category than damage done to bot...
So for example, a game is played. It has Bots in it and it's a win for the player. 6,000 damage is done 1/2 inflicted on humans, 1/2 on Bots. So the player gets 6,000 damage counted towards their personal Moe calculations, but the global Moe only calculates 3,000. Correct?
dire widget
Yes. That was what I was thing.
thick ridge
ok, that could be a win, win. The player isn't punished for being in a game with bots and doesn't have to drastically change their game approach (i.e. Hunting and firing at humans only). The global pool of players win by not having Moe requirements "inflated" .
viscid burrow
So for example, a game is played. It has Bots in it and it's a win for the playe...
Just playing devils advocate here but wouldn't that just do the same thing but in reverse?
Instead of inflated marks we would have inaccurately low mark requirements.
It just changes the issue from one extreme to another. Personally I'd rather them be way too hard than way to easy.
cold arch
@viscid burrow I agree but then you have clowns that let each other kill themselves and only play X tank against BOTS, so that is indeed a problem
tranquil ridge
What about if there's bots in a game it doesn't count for anything and it's just tough if you work weird hours, why award botfarmers and probably less than 10 percent of the playerbase, at the detriment of the majority.
I personally think more than 3 bots in a game shouldn't count towards anything.
The majority are being screwed over at the minute for the benefit of a few who botfarm and others who can only play at low population times
He's not gatekeeping, the botfarmers inflate the requirements for the majority who play pvp at high population times
mighty saffron
He's not gatekeeping, the botfarmers inflate the requirements for the majority w...
Where is the data to back this claim up?
tranquil ridge
I can't be bothered searching through the threads but somewhere a staff member confirmed it
Where's your evidence it doesn't?
mighty saffron
Small group of players is not pushing up the mark to unreachable levels
tranquil ridge
It's not a small group of players and the amount of games they play does indeed push it up, especially in ColdWar and lower tiers in WW2. Maybe not so much in tier 10, but it does impact the rest of the tiers greatly.
I've seen it with my own games botfarming 🤣
tranquil ridge
Why are you so pressed? Do you gain your marks by botfarming? And don't want to lose the only way you would be able to get them? You're the one who's not coping well
It's obvious they inflate the mark
mighty saffron
Why are you so pressed? Do you gain your marks by botfarming? And don't want to ...
Lol
Do you really think 100 games from a bot farmer will affect the mark of excellence requirements more than 100 damage?
100 games out probably upwards of 30-40k games
I don't think so.
tranquil ridge
Yeah because there is only 1 person playing 100 games, do you even think before typing?
Give an argument for keeping bot games to count towards damage standing and back it up with evidence instead of just shouting 'cope'. Staff have confirmed bot games inflate the requirements 🤣
There's hundreds of them
mighty saffron
I can't get the 3 mark it must be because of all those darn bot farmers making the mark 4670 damage instead of 4630 damage
It's cope
mighty saffron
There's hundreds of them
LOL
Alright man you have no idea what you're talking about. I think this conversation is over
cold arch
@mighty saffron BOT FARMER FOUND
tranquil ridge
Botfarmers inflate it z lot more than the number you pulled out your backside, they also lessen the value of MoE anybody can set their alarm or swap servers to botfarm
mighty saffron
Botfarmers inflate it z lot more than the number you pulled out your backside, t...
It's a personal achievement
Nobody cares about the 3 marks
tranquil ridge
I'm not bothered about them but give a reason why bot games should count
mighty saffron
because not everyone can play in the few hours that bots aren't prevalent
tranquil ridge
Tough
tranquil ridge
Cool story botfarmer 😘
tall harbor
I am bot farmer now <:PepeChad:1093230068018446377>
interesting
mighty saffron
I will just leave at this, reason you aren't getting the mark isn't due to bot farmers. It's cope to keep trying to argue this point 😺
cold arch
4670 VS 4630? TRY 7800 FOR A 0.12 % UP MARK you are the one that doesn't know what is talking about
mighty saffron
4670 VS 4630? TRY 7800 FOR A 0.12 % UP MARK you are the one that doesn't know wh...
Interesting
Blocked
cold arch
hahaha little coward
"Blocked" OH NOOOOO MY LIFE IS OVER!
somebody please don'e let him block meeeeeeeeeeeee oooooooo nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
a random little guy that can't take an argument against is going to block meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
AND HAS TO SHOW HOW BIG HE IS BY ANOUNCING IT
😭
GENERATION OF CRYBABYS
@digital lintel Everyone that disagrees with you is a BOT farmer at this point is clear as water.
flint estuary
Genuinely think about it for a second. How many people do you think botfarm? Maybe they push the gold mark up by 100 damage for a week?
Cuz I don't think invalidating games with a bot in it is a good solution for a small problem. Nor does ignoring bot damage. If you want to mark and happen to end up against bots should you be punished?
tall harbor
hahaha little coward
facts
brittle mountain
More than 3 bots and it shouldn't count towards moe that would solve the inflated avg dmg requirement
tranquil ridge
Well how about make it even easier for the botfarmers and lessen the value of Marks even more, by having the damage done in botgames not count towards the requirements. That would be fair but it would devalue them even more than they have been by the plague of botfarmers
tranquil ridge
More than 3 bots and it shouldn't count towards moe that would solve the inflate...
That's exactly what I said in my post
flint estuary
More than 3 bots and it shouldn't count towards moe that would solve the inflate...
What about for half the players in that match who never even fired a shot at the bots? Is that fair?
tranquil ridge
What's firing at bots got to do with anything? 🤣🤣🤣
tranquil ridge
What about for half the players in that match who never even fired a shot at the...
You been drinking?
flint estuary
What's firing at bots got to do with anything? 🤣🤣🤣
Because it would be invalidating the whole match for every player regardless of if they interacted with the bots
flint estuary
You been drinking?
Lots of water 
tranquil ridge
Because it would be invalidating the whole match for every player regardless of ...
Yeah that's just a side effect of keeping value in MoE. More than 3 bots doesn't count and people would just have to get used to it.
The majority are being screwed over for the benefit of the few. Not to mention the devaluing of the marks
cold arch
@flint estuary This man knows his game, he is a man of commitment and pure SEXUAL TYRANNOSAURUS ENERGY! Veteran players that have up to 100 games in any tier can't get the marks that way
flint estuary
Yeah that's just a side effect of keeping value in MoE. More than 3 bots doesn't...
How are the majority being disadvantaged? Are the few bot games out of thousands of normal ones so severe as to make a mark unobtainable? Knock those games out and you would hardly notice a difference in the requirements
mighty saffron
cold arch
Hey Bot farmer we got your point, you are going to defend being a bot farmer, is ok
tranquil ridge
Cool meme botfarmer! That must have took all of 2 mins
cold arch
imagine taking the time to make that meme rather than actually making a good point....
He was busy trying to defend... something i guess
mighty saffron
Cool meme botfarmer! That must have took all of 2 mins
Thanks it is funny and accurate though.
tranquil ridge
Thanks it is funny and accurate though.
Saddo, laughing at your own memes 
tranquil ridge
Bet you tell a joke and absolutely laugh at how clever your joke was whilst everybody else stands in silence
https://giphy.com/gifs/tumbleweed-1Zbeweu52ZaQE
flint estuary
I thought it was funny
tame junco
I think bowies meme was quite funny 😁
mighty saffron
You're a bad sport
Just because the meme was directed at you doesn't mean it was unfunny
cold arch
he got reinforcements
mighty saffron
I think bowies meme was quite funny 😁
Thank you
tranquil ridge
I said it was cool 😎 it's just sad to laugh at your own memes 🤢
tame junco
he got reinforcements
Just a lurker 😁
tame junco
😅
cold arch
don't worry we all are
flint estuary
Oh ok
flint estuary
How are the majority being disadvantaged? Are the few bot games out of thousands...
Circling back to this ^
tranquil ridge
Because they are
flint estuary
And if we want to talk about the Prestige of marks... should we mention afk games artificially lowering the value?
tranquil ridge
If you want to, what point would you like to make?
flint estuary
My point would be more of an anecdote off personal experience but I see one afk player a match. So I would assume the amount of players serial afk-ing is higher than players intentionally farming bots
cold arch
@flint estuary That is an interesting thing
tranquil ridge
You see one afk player a match!? Really!? Have you got a bridge for sale also? If you see one every game is must be you. No need to over exaggerate. There's nowhere near a comparable number of players afking as there is botfarming
cold arch
but i only seen 1 AFK player in my enemy team after 600+ games
flint estuary
You see one afk player a match!? Really!? Have you got a bridge for sale also? I...
Heck sometimes it is me 😂
cold arch
yes personal experience but it has to count somewhere
cold arch
we all been AFK
today i was AFK for a few secs
A FEW SECS!
my heart stopped
KB don't ban me i love u
flint estuary
So that's kinda what I'm getting at... on top of the vast majority of normal games, are the few bot farmers going to outweigh all those games as well as the 0-0-0 players and afk-ers
tame junco
No
cold arch
LET'S ALL DISAGREE WITH EVERYONE!
tame junco
I disagree with people who are wrong
tame junco
flint estuary
"Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress"
cold arch
Funny thing, i was using the M46A1 CW and it is a really hard tank to use even with all the perks
i tried to 4th mark it and guess what?
somehow it jumped from doing 3.5 K damage a game to 5K damage
that poor tank barely does 1.7 K a match and that was a good game
🥹
i have never seen any player doing more than 3k once in a Nova star
who is playing that?
when is that person playing that?
how is the damage that high?
Are you telling me that 7 players have such an impact on this tank?
tranquil ridge
I've seen it with my own eyes, maybe it doesn't affect you elite tier 10 players because that's all you play 🥵 but there's a big game of tanks outside of tier 10 and it does inflate it by a good amount, you'd be surprised how many people botfarm and the number of games they play. People swap servers on purpose to get botgames
cold arch
If the tank is a noob tank, everyone uses it, the STATS should be horrible and easy to get slight uppers
but 7 players above me are somehow making it a chore?
If you wanted proof there it is
flint estuary
but 7 players above me are somehow making it a chore?
You ever once considered there might be 7 better players?
tranquil ridge
but 7 players above me are somehow making it a chore?
Because of botfarmers, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink 🙄
cold arch
@flint estuary I am not saying that i am better or worse than those 7 players
i am saying those 7 above me are doing something to alter the numbers
just 7 players
GET IT?
i am saying i am better than you tho XD
haha nana don't take it to heart
I love you all my beautiful tankers
even those who block me
tall harbor
I see it this way everyone has their opinions but I don't see the need bring down players if you're better or not everyone gunna be good
tame junco
True
flint estuary
i am saying those 7 above me are doing something to alter the numbers
Let me ask you this. Do those players above you have the gold mark? And if not, is it the bot farmers or the MoE calculation that is the problem?
tranquil ridge
It doesn't take that many botfarmers to put enough high damage games on a tank in 1 night to inflate it greatly the next day when marks update, I've done it myself 🤣 farmed the bots and watched it jump next day
Felt dirty
tame junco
How did you watch it jump?
tall harbor
In general I don't care for bot farming my stats are crap, but like I said before everyone has their own opinions about the game. But it's DAMN GAME not real life situation to worry about.
tranquil ridge
With my 👀
tame junco
We don't have access to moe numbers how did you watch it jump
tranquil ridge
tranquil ridge
You're the one trolling
tame junco
I'm not I asked you how you watched moes jump when we don't have access to that info
tranquil ridge
I'm not I asked you how you watched moes jump when we don't have access to that ...
There's sites that give a good approximation and also by watching your own MoE drop drastically the next day when you've played the same tank all day very well
tame junco
Those sites are completely inaccurate and 1 player botfarming one night then not the next day just doesn't have a measurable effect
tranquil ridge
1 player doesn't, I agree but open your eyes 👀 it's loads of players, they swap servers to do it 🤣
The sites are pretty close as well
tame junco
You said that you witnessed the effects of your own actions that's one player
Are you telling me when you stopped botfarming the rest did aswell?
You know all the botfarmers?
tranquil ridge
Yeah I have done it myself on barely played tanks
tame junco
Yeah for sure
tranquil ridge
Yeah for sure
I have and know many others who have. You just keep your head buried in the sand
tame junco
Of course 1 player will have a greater effect t on barely played ranks but most tanks are played enough where the difference is immeasurable
We are talking about most tanks not the m10 rbfm
1 player not botfarming also has a similar effect on barely played tanks
tranquil ridge
But there's lots of botfarmers, it's like talking to a brick wall. Enjoy your evening 😘
tame junco
I won.
tranquil ridge
Congratulations 🎊
tame junco
GG
cold arch
IS NOT A GAME ANYMORE THIS IS LIFE!
tame junco
True
tall harbor
🤦♀️👎
cold arch
🤣
tall harbor
It's a useless fight at this point over a video game 🤦♀️
cold arch
Is ok love don't pay attention to them
tranquil ridge
tranquil ridge
1 botfarmer wont inflate the mark by much if at all
cold arch
Nah if i am honest i don't give a F... but i see that everyone has point and that is the interesting part
The question is why do you care?
why don't care?
who are we?
why are we here?
spring egret
https://giphy.com/gifs/drunk-wasted-too-many-drinks-KctNhiy99LoLBTgLNO
interesting video of yourself i guess?
tranquil ridge
interesting video of yourself i guess?
Thanks 😘
cold arch
man i thought that was me
tranquil ridge
We could be the same person 
old bone
pokes head in
This thread smells of tism.
mighty saffron
Mods?
cold arch
tranquil ridge
vague cedar
@lucid lagoon might need to lock this thread. It seems to keep devolving into insults