Cold War Cap Mechanics

[last drum]

There are a few key differences between WWII and CW that warrant changes to the CW caps in standard battle. Though I will admit I think the main issue is at era 2.

1. Smoke Screens. Smoke Screens don't exist in WWII.

Their existence warrants changing standard battle cap mechanics so that the base capture is interrupted if a defender is inside their own cap circle.

2. CW is played differently and that's okay. It's quite common for the entire team to go one way and it's sometimes the correct play (Dukla Pass comes to mind.) The first few minutes are spent getting map control and sometimes that can't be achieved while sitting on your base "defending" it. So you often have to choose between gaining map control and losing to cap or keeping the base safe and losing to destruction because you're all trapped. It's often not really possible to both defend the cap and obtain map control in the first few minutes.

My solution (as others have also suggested) is to lock the caps in CW standard battle for the first 2-3 minutes of the battle. This will allow teams a brief window to obtain map control before having to worry about being capped. This will also only really affect the very very short games that end in cap where most of the team is still alive. These games award minimal xp, silver, and rewards as little to nothing actually happens in these games.

3. Tanks are fast at Era 2 and 3 but they also all travel at very similar speeds. There isn't nearly the variety of speeds that WWII has. This means that when the enemy team gets to the cap usually 3 enemies jump on it at the same time.

i think it would be beneficial to slightly reduce the benefit that having multiple tanks on the cap has on capture speed. The current system is optimized for WWII. Not CW.

[vague rune]

i agree

cw caps really need some changing

[timber walrus]

Not sure what you want for No.1. For No.2 a two minute non activation from start of the game is more than enough time. No. 3. I don't think so. 3 is 3, WWII doesn't care if the tanks are Lights, Mediums (usually the fastest). If 3 make it, so be it. In theory the defending team has the same advantage of speed to either get back or capture the other base. Start with just No.2 are see what happens.

[lofty fractal]

Capping should really have a delay l think...atleast in cw. I dont play ww2 anymore so l cant tell the habbits of capping there. Cw games are sometimes over in the time it takes to drive over to the other side and cap out

[median maple]

capping is harder in cw as you have true vision and the circles are not under cover usually, plus vehicles are faster and can get back easier. just another MoE hunter trying to ruin the game for every1 else

[unkempt osprey]

And yet capping is complained about, it’s a meta thing. And our bad for wanting to drive and shoot tanks in a tank game with realistic models, we should be encouraging sitting in a circle instead. That’s much more interesting

[median maple]

it is complained about by dishonest people who only want damage and value nothing else

and yes, tactically reaching and securing objectives IS interesting, as well as planning accordingly to prevent the enemy from doing so

it adds a wonderful layer of thoughtful complexity to the game which you would gladly remove for meat headed damage hunting

[unkempt osprey]

Don’t those people win more often than everyone else? Maybe you should try to emulate them to be a better team player (helping your team win more)

[unkempt osprey]

Perfect. Tactical base capping is what we all want. Lock it for the first 2-3 minutes so the lemming trains can’t quick cap and end the game early with no strategy involved. Then opportunities for tactical capping in the mid and late game arise

[median maple]

correlation fallacy, no they do not. its just that people who are "bored" with the game from years of experience begin going for marks of excellence, so more experienced players are trying to get them, they already had higher win rates

[unkempt osprey]

Ironically meathead damage hunters defend the base more than their teammates bc they can’t get damage if the game is over. Who’s really the more selfish player here?

[median maple]

you need to tactically counter the lemming train

not change mechanics

be better

[unkempt osprey]

Those people had higher win rates from chasing damage. High damage causes high win rate. Most games end with team destruction. Doing more damage contributes to that. How else do you win games?

[median maple]

chasing damage does not equal higher win rates, most games end with team destruction because it is easier, this is a correlation fallacy, again.

[unkempt osprey]

Ah yes, go win a 2v10. Very easy to do. If you stay back you can't even run bc you'll get hunted by begels

[median maple]

then go cap their base

[unkempt osprey]

That's what happens, 11 people on one cap, 11 on the other. That's riviting gameplay

Game's decided on how many smart people on each team went back to suicide reset to win by 4 seconds

[unkempt osprey]

A person with a higher win rate in a specific tank than someone else will usually have a higher win rate in that tank. If that's simply bc "they're better bc they've played longer" then what does "getting better" entail? Doing more damage and therefore winning more

[median maple]

if you have a problem with lemming trains go make THAT thread, this is about capping

there is nothing wrong with capping

[median maple]

correlation fallacy

[unkempt osprey]

I'll accept this if you give an alternate hypothesis

[unkempt osprey]

I mean sure but the logical consequence of lemmings is early capping if they go opposite directions. Easier to change caps than to change player psychology and how maps play

[median maple]

they became good at map awareness, communication, pattern recognition, aiming, memorized armor patterns, and then began playing for marks of excellence after getting bored with general gameplay

[median maple]

there are lots of consequences of lemming trains, that's why my "checkerboard spawning" is ideal

[unkempt osprey]

Being good at all that comes from chasing damage bc it's the more efficient way to win

[median maple]

no, damage is the consequence of learning those other things

[unkempt osprey]

And winning is the consequence doing all these things

[median maple]

it sure is, but not of damage hunting

its a Y shape, both winning and damage are consequences of those other things, they are not related to eachother

[unkempt osprey]

Damage hunting isn't different than winning by doing damage

[median maple]

in any event even if you were right that damage helps you win that's evidence base capping would need to be buffed

[unkempt osprey]

That's a philosophical question. I and most others (I assume) play WoT to drive and shoot and destroy realistic tanks. Capping is important as a "come from behind" tactical mechanic when the chips are down but should never be the primary focus for winning until other options are exhausted. This is bc it defeats the main purpose of why we play this game, which is driving and shooting and destroying realistic tanks

[unkempt osprey]

It's not a Y. Doing damage and winning are more or less the same thing. Same sources, doing damage is winning and winning is doing damage. Both are consequences of getting better at the game. They are intrinsically related

[median maple]

your "purpose" is limited and simplistic, tanks are objects for capturing territory. that is what they are being used for here

[unkempt osprey]

In real life sure. In this game, I love it because I get to drive, shoot, and destroy tanks. I'm sure that's what draws almost everybody to this game. Why ruin that experience by sitting in a circle for a minute or two?

[median maple]

welp, learn to love using the tank for tactical reasons too

[unkempt osprey]

Tactically, the best way to win is to do as much damage as humanly possible in the shortest amount of time and just ignore the cap until you have no other option. Evidence: literally anyone with >60% win rate

[last drum]

I play the game so that I can play the game. Capping in 2 minutes impedes that from happening.

It's a waste of my time and everybody else's. Minimal rewards due to a lack of anything meaningful happening. Minimal gameplay as those short games are little more than a driving simulator.

It's an overall unenjoyable experience that WG doesn't even reward. It's quite common for players on the losing team to earn more xp than the "winners" in such a scenario. It has nothing to do with marks.

I'd love to see somebody actually argue that they enjoy driving to the enemy cap without so much as shooting at an enemy. Then sit in the base until the game ends. Or that it's fun for anyone.

Go play comp if you value winning over rewards and enjoyment. Pubs should be fun.

[median maple]

that's part of the game, do better

[last drum]

Do better? I'm saying that CW cap mechanics create unpleasant, pointless games. It isn't a matter of doing better 🤣

[odd haven]

It’s people like you who honestly keep this game in the state it is. There’s people who want good changes that help the game and make it more healthier overall, then there’s people like you. People who write off everything as “do better” or as “it’s a part of the game” as if parts of the game can’t be changed. Honestly, do you want the game to only get worse? Or do you want the game to get better because right now it seems like you’re wanting it to get worse.

[icy shoal]

Seriously WG, do something about the flag capture because there has been way too many games that have been ruined due to the cancerous selfishness of flag captures... the amount of times I've put a booster on XP, Commander XP, AND silver XP just to have it thrown into the trash match because our team decided to rush & capture the flag in UNDER a few minutes is truly disgusting. We get robbed of the XP needed to work on our next upgrade, & all it does it make the grind unbearable especially when you are working towards 100k+ XP needed.
So yea, just do something about the flag capture, either implement a voting system in game, lock the ability to flag capture for the 1st 4 to 5 minutes, or maybe even have it accessible when there is maybe 6 to 7 tanks left or something... whatever you do, Just DO SOMETHING already.

[last drum]

Capping when 2/3rds or more of both teams are still alive in the first couple minutes does nothing but hurt everybody in the lobby. It just destroys silver, xp, and reward earn. Which if we're being honest is the reason most people are playing.

There's nothing tactical about ending the game before there is any way to know which side is even winning. Especially considering neither team will really earn winning amounts of silver or xp. Ensuring the game ends prematurely causes neither team to get rewarded. This only hurts everybody. It shouldn't be allowed.

[lofty fractal]

Agree, really want games last as long as possible.

[timber walrus]

WG could try a 2 minute deactivation from the start of the game. Try it, see what happens. At the very least games will go for about 4 to 5 minutes if 1 side can't defend a base. Looking at the discussion (yes I'm being generous with the word discussion) above it reminds me of varying approaches used by football (soccer) teams around the world. Some favour attack, others defense, others on ball control/retention, others field position etc. No one approach is perfect, bad, unbeatable. Just different mind sets playing the same game. If you value wining above all else quick caping is fine so long as you win. If you are chasing a MOE staying alive and doing damage is your only concern. If you are doing a Contract you are chase OP requirements. If you are playing with some mates, you may just be talking about anything as you muck about playing online. WG don't care how you play, as long as you show up. If you show up WG can sell you stuff. That's their reason for providing you with tanks to rent.

[unkempt osprey]

If your desire is winning, the best strategy is to learn how to do the most damage possible and almost never cap. Capping should only be used in situations where you wouldn’t win otherwise

[timber walrus]

That indicates to me that you use a attack as the way you wish to engage with the game and also believe its the method to use. Personally, I use all 4. It varies from hour by hour, day by day, week by week.

[unkempt osprey]

It doesn’t vary. People with more damage win more. It’s the proven strategy

[timber walrus]

Ok. So you play your way, I'll play all of mine. Good luck to you when you play. If I used your preferred method, I would have quit this game shortly after Downgrade 6.0. So I'm back to D Day mode for some stress free fun. Tomorrow I'll be doing something else, not sure what.

[median maple]

learn to enjoy more than damage, if you win, you win.

[last drum]

I'm trying to enjoy earning xp and silver. In a game where nothing happens a victory multiplier x nothing = nothing. As is seen over and over when "losers" earn more xp in these short pointless games that reward nobody.

Maybe you should try to enjoy more than winning? You seem to be fine depriving yourself and everyone else in the lobby tangible assets for your hollow "victory."

I don't see the point in a victory if I end up with worse or similar rewards as the losing team. A victory multiplier is pointless in a game where so little actually happened that there is nothing to reward.

[median maple]

ok so grant the team more xp for base capping

[timber walrus]

⬆️ This made my day. 👏 What a great idea.

[last drum]

Are you serious or are you trolling me?

[unkempt osprey]

He's trolling. He's been trolling for 8 years. Nothing but bad faith arguments and nonsense

[thorny moat]

I think he believes it

[unkempt osprey]

Does he have some condition where he's incapable of reading hard evidence against his beliefs? It's either that or he's a bad faith troll

[thorny moat]

I've been asking that to myself for 7 years

[median maple]

if you claim the problem is people don't get enough xp for capping....give them more xp for capping

[last drum]

That is not what I said.

I said that nobody gets rewarded in short games that end in cap very early.

Rewarding the maximum 3/30 players who cap will only exacerbate the issue. As now we would be motivating players to cap early. Earning rewards for themselves but maintaining poor rewards for the other 27 players.

A game needs to last long enough that players have a reasonable amount of time to actually achieve something to be rewarded for. Otherwise it is a waste of time.

[median maple]

right, you cited a lack of reward as a problem. so i suggested that when the team camps the team should get a cap xp bonus for all players. this fixes the problem you stated

infact capping early is harder and rarer so the sooner capping occurs the larger the bonus should be

[gaunt forge]

Rewarding cappers is not the answer and never will be, I would rather earn my xp and silver by dealing damage and getting kills as it's more rewarding this way. I don't want to be rewarded more xp or silver for doing nothing

[chilly bough]

Jesus hexine, it’s a tank game, not a Walmart parking lot simulator. I want to brawl in my heavies, scout in my lights and snipe with my destroyers, more time in the game means I get to play in those roles longer. If I wanted to rush and sit in the cap for a 13v13 victory I might as well not play. So it’s not just rewards, it’s the quality of the match. Like do you think getting destroyed or fast capped in the first minute is fun or a high quality match? Because you get to play the next match faster?

[gaunt forge]

This is also a great point

[lofty fractal]

Remove 2 cap games from cw and keep the rest. That might work

[median maple]

way to suggest the worst possible thing and ruin the entire game causing only lemming trains to remain

[lofty fractal]

I do not belive that alone would ruin anything

[last drum]

Any reward system significant enough to make 2 minute games where little to no damage is done worthwhile would have a substantial impact on rewards earned in typical games. So no that won't work either.

Additionally that is a awful idea that would promote exactly the type of gameplay the vast majority does not appear to enjoy.

[minor lava]

I don’t want to read through all this, but I think if your base gets capped, losers should get minus 200 XP off top.

[gaunt forge]

As funny as that would be that wouldnt stop people from capping and ruining games

[tender tiger]

I like idea #1 as I think it promotes defense a bit more which is undervalued and should make quick cappers be a bit more wary.

For #2, this is just a bad idea and in almost no circumstance would it be better. You would just have hordes of 11 players on both sides circling the opponents base until it activated for the exact reason they do not continue past the base now: the enemy is at your base and going alone means getting destroyed. You would just lengthen games out without appreciable difference in damage/silver/xp.
The only thing this would do is foster more lemming trains because it would make it harder to underdog cap a 2-11. Why take a different path when you can’t underdog cap when your team 💩 the bed.

I get that some just want damage only and if there was a damage only lobby and a cap lobby everyone would be happy. But some of us do like the strategic cap—the underdog cap—pulling the win out of a crappy team defeat after you smashed the flank you were on and done your best.

I would also welcome something where you get a win but you can also finish it out—Halo Reach end game style—destroy/be destroyed suicide mission.

[timber walrus]

⬆️ Well said.

[unkempt osprey]

The current cap situation is already what you’re describing. People are dumb and don’t look at the map and suddenly 3 guys are on the cap. They realize they can’t go back so they get on the cap and hope whoever is back gets enough resets. The same thing might happen if the cap is locked for 3 minutes but maybe some people will actually try to get back or drive past since the win condition isn’t currently there (if they don’t have the map awareness to go defend, are they gonna look at how long it’s gonna take until the cap unlocks). Worst case, both teams triple cap when it unlocks but at least then it’s a 4 minute game instead of a 2 minute game and there was likely more action. Seems like a win-win to me. Almost nobody is arguing against the strategic cap option, that should stay as much as possible.

Using the people "who only want damage" is a bad boogyman. Those people often reach the limit of how much they can win games and shift priority to dealing damage (due to WN8 and MOEs). They're not and never the problems. They're the first (and often only) player back defending the cap.

[tender tiger]

Why are you trying to start crap?

I didn’t call anyone anything negative. Truth is some people would prefer to play team destruction 24/7. At no point did I indicate that is bad. When there are multiple lobbies I like to switch it up and play different games. It’s unfortunate that WG does not offer that. As indicated, my point was different people like different things and there are reasons why people like being able to cap.

The rest of your post basically says I’m right and the game will last longer with only a might more gameplay and no real benefit to the extra time. The few who do venture out will get smashed and will learn not to. Meanwhile it will harm those unbalanced team games that might have a strategic cap. It will reward a team where they overcommit to a flank even more.

[median maple]

if you know the other team is going to try and cap in the first 2 minutes....maybe you would change your behavior

[timber walrus]

If only the command wheel has "Defend the base". Oh , I forgot, it does.

[unkempt osprey]

Lol I’ve never seen anyone follow me when I say that on my way alone to the cap

[unkempt osprey]

Why should the people that win the most change their behavior? If they changed, they would win less. Weird thing to suggest

[median maple]

you have no evidence the people in this scenario "win the most", they will change their behavior because they don't like the outcome that happens if they dont change it.

[lunar tulip]

I suggest WG empliment a game mode choice.. let us choose to play with caps and without.. be simple to do . All the good players will chose without and the others will be in the capping games with the bots and can cap all they want.. problem solved

[timber walrus]

So that would create 4 games, CW caps, CW no caps, CW Coop caps, CW Coop no caps.

[lunar tulip]

Have a playlist like other games.. just for a short while to get poll on who really wants to play with or without caps.. sort of a test.. be interesting at least.. just trying to help the game..

[last drum]

I think somebody else suggested it. Allowing the teams to fight it out even after victory is decided by cap in the first few minutes might be the best solution.

The cappers get their win.

Everybody else gets a chance to earn more xp and silver. Especially the winning team.

Seems like a win-win solution to me.

It benefits everyone involved and it strongly promotes being on the winning team.

[cloud ermine]

Show me one player with 2 average cappoints or more and 60% winrate or higher. There is non

Dmg wins matches and once people realise they'll change

I did find players who had, on average 25 cappoints per surviving winning match. Yet they had way below average winrates

Capping is usually bad for the team unless people know what they're doing. And let's be honest 99% including you have no clue

[unkempt osprey]

You’re telling me to do that. I’m one of the top 200 players in this game by winrate. Why should I take advice from someone who wins less than me? Why should I change the behavior that gets me such high winrates? Don’t you think I already do everything in my power not to get capped?

95% of the time my issue with capping is with my own team since I have no way to stop my own team from capping

[unkempt osprey]

It’s worse than that. He clueless and thinks he’s a genius. Either that or a very dedicated troll

[cloud ermine]

@unkempt osprey Guess this one is accurate af

[last drum]

How do you check your rank by WR?

[unkempt osprey]

You don't. It's very much an estimate. A lot of players in the top clans are aware of each other. I know of ~50 players better than me. I estimate that there are several times that number that I don't know. I could be top 100, or top 500, kinda just shot in the middle

[cloud ermine]

Definitely top 0.25% though

[last drum]

I wish there was one. I'd like to see the stats on that.

[unkempt osprey]

Wotstars has a sorter for winrate in the last 90 days. It doesn't account for tier, platooning, tank power level, etc though so it's not great

[tender tiger]

Maybe not all the remaining time but an overtime 2-3 minutes. That should cover most games though. Or maybe allow a vote to go to garage or just allow players to quit to garage—to avoid the 10 minute hide and seek or Maus chasing the light. (assuming it would be popular to bring to WW2)

[last drum]

Thank you I didn't realize wotstars had that

[last drum]

Yea I do think that is the best option. Just putting the game into a 3 minute "overtime" after a quick cap if the cap starts in the first 3 minutes? Overtime isn't a great term though as the battle outcome would be already decided.

It seems beneficial to everyone involved even the losing team.

[tender tiger]

Extra time? Bonus Time? Death Time? I’m sure there is some historical or other similar term for fighting when the outcome is already decided. 🤔

[timber walrus]

except WG seem to like quick battles over 15 minute max ones. I'm not a coder so I have no knowledge of what WG would have to change. What would happen to the tanks that cap? Would they disappear as the cap has been captured the regular game is over? Could anyone left alive exit without penalty? Would wining side tanks, not on the cap, loss silver/XP if they get destroyed in sudden death? Far simpler to de activate the cap for the 1st 2 minutes. If a team in CW can't defend a cap in 4 minutes they lose. I would much prefer WG to spend time and money fixing the MM mix of tank type per battle than work on caps.

[tender tiger]

WG likes quick caps just like they like rollovers—less silver and xp distributed to players.

They could add a bonus attribute to the capping team—rof or health etc. And you just fight on. If you would capture/destroy an ammo dump irl, the enemy wouldn’t just stop shooting at you right?

Maybe it opens a passage behind the base where you can drive off and out of the game if you like—next objective/battle if you will. They could also make it where there is no silver cost or gain after the cap and it’s more just bragging rights. Debatable if add MoE in there as that would likely drive them higher.

[timber walrus]

yeah there's a lot of 'what happens ' that would need to be sorted. And we all know how that has gone over the years. For WG to do something well it has to be KISSed , Keep It Simple Stupid. A 2 minute wait time is relatively simple to do, implement and for all players to understand. It would also be accepted by Cappers and MOE's.

[median maple]

unacceptable, given the opportunity players will optimize the fun and variety out of any game in favor of efficiency. you should never have this choice

[unkempt osprey]

Exactly. That’s why we should remove the cap entirely. People take all the fun out by trying to win quickly and efficiently. Less time driving and shooting tanks, more time waiting in loading screens isn’t fun

[median maple]

then lemming trains would rule every match, there would be no variety

you are exactly the kind of player i was warning about

[unkempt osprey]

The player who wants to have fun driving and shooting tanks? Man you must be a blast at parties

[median maple]

you're the player trying to remove variety, and make every match the same

[unkempt osprey]

That sounds like the game now

[unkempt osprey]

That sounds like the game now

[median maple]

no it doesn't, stop exaggerating

marks of excellence shoudl be removed to quiet you lot down

[unkempt osprey]

Stop exaggerating

[median maple]

i didn't, the base is literally the only feature preventing there from being only one perfect strategy

[unkempt osprey]

There already is only one perfect strategy. Do as much damage as you can as fast as you can

@median maple important question, why do you think you know better than everyone else, that your way of thinking and vision is correct?

[cloud ermine]

100% you're trolling

Noway anyone can be like that

[cloud ermine]

Here's the answer

Will be the most used image on this server soon

[last drum]

They would only have to do 2 things.

1. make it so the game didn't end when the base was capped in the first 3 minutes

2. make the time left in the match change from X to 3 minutes if capture happens in the first 3 minutes.

It's not as simple as locking the caps for the first 3 minutes but it is an arguably better solution

[lofty fractal]

Eghter way the disagreements are here, a game that last for only 2.29 minutes are way way too short.

[cloud ermine]

But people like zoom zoom. It's more faster. Morenfaster means more action.

[median maple]

that's a goal, not a strategy

[unkempt osprey]

Who has the best winrates? People who do the most damage as quickly as possible. Specifically the early as possible part. Late damage usually doesn’t help

[median maple]

again, correlation fallacy

[unkempt osprey]

Show me evidence of anything else and I’ll believe you

[unkempt osprey]

@median maple hello? You have a habit of ignoring the important comments where you need to justify your position. I’m starting to think you’re a troll

[cloud ermine]

He can't show a single person with 2 cap points and 60% winrate

@unkempt osprey bro has atleast 28 capture points per surviving and winning match match. He litteraly caps all the time yet cN
And can't get good winrates

[median maple]

not how this works, i don't owe you negative evidence, the affirmative claim is always the one responsible for data, in the abscence of data my claim of correlation fallacy stands

[cloud ermine]

I'm the man of data and spreadsheets.

Let's get a few things straigt before I get some data when I'm home. Just answer a few things.

1. Do you believe classic math is true or are you one of them who thinks Terrence Howard is right?

2. Do you say there is no correlation between high Damage and winrate? In fact when capping is a big factor for winning we should see a peak of winrate somewhere between high and low dmg right?

3. How many matches do I need to sample before you're satisfied and believe my math? Is a million recent matches enough?

4. If my second point was wrong, what causes high winrate and what will be the result of high average cap points.

[unkempt osprey]

Hypothesis: winning is primarily caused by damage

Reason: most games end in team destruction, most that don’t end in a cap by the team that would’ve won by team destruction if the battle was played out

Evidence: a strong correlation between damage dealt and win %

I have provided evidence. You claim the positive in the case of correlation fallacy. You must now provide evidence to refute my claim.

[median maple]

your hypothesis is easily disproven by the fact teams with less damage can win, the fact that most games end in team destruction is capping the base is significantly harder and can be interrupted

and if there was a correlation that was "strong" we should buff base capping or buff its rewards to reflect it is the harder more skill based option

[unkempt osprey]

Evidence please. Show how over large battle samples, there is a stronger predictor of win rate than damage. Single battles are irrelevant. You even saying this invalidates literally any argument you make

[median maple]

don't ask me for things you didn't provide yourself

[cloud ermine]

@median maple see proof. Lower average cappoints result in higher winrate.

[cloud ermine]

He doesn't care about sample size. One is enough. I proofed it. Used his very own stats and my crappy ones to proof him Wrong 🙃

[cloud ermine]

Got even 50% more ep per minute. Proofed capping is increasing the time to grind

[timber walrus]

So the stats on the right show a survival rate of about 19% and the left shows a survival rate of about 35%. So the players on the right are still getting over a 53% win ratio despite die more and caping. Yes?

[unkempt osprey]

And despite capping 1/100th the amount the guy on the right caps, the guy on the left wins 25% more

[median maple]

there are multiple explanations for this. 1. capping is harder, 2. people who happen to be better don't like capping

you have not shown that capping CAUSES the lower win rates and if you succeeded in showing this....it would imply capping is a more skill based activity than destruction and should result in higher rewards

also wn8 is not a valid stat. it includes subjective measures like tier of tank played

tier 2 is just as skillful as tier 10 if not harder

[gaunt forge]

😂😂😂 capping as of right now is not harder lmfao, the amount of games that end in a cap are way to many, stop thinking your right because your not

[unkempt osprey]

If the player quality were the same, sure. Tier 2 has worse (new) players so it’s easier to do well

[unkempt osprey]

Capping causing lower win rates is a correlation fallacy.

Damage causing higher win rates is causation. It directly contributes to the most prominent (by far) win condition and has the strongest correlation of any measurable stat. And you have failed to provide any evidence to the contrary, basically conceding the debate

[timber walrus]

So caping 54%, not caping 59%, 5% difference. But again, back to the OP, I agree that caps could be de activated for a short period at the start for CW. Do that and see what impact on game play.

[median maple]

nobody new can ever play tier 2 what are you talking about

[median maple]

both are correlation fallacies, i gave other explanations

[unkempt osprey]

Even more of a reason not even to discuss tier 2

[unkempt osprey]

Statistical evidence please. Thought experiments hold no weight

[gaunt forge]

🍿

[cloud ermine]

Never argued with wn8. Stop trolling

Just admit you're wrong

[median maple]

and yet you missed the point entirely, wn8 is subjective

[unkempt osprey]

Where did any of us say anything about wn8 bro? We’re talking winning here

[cloud ermine]

How the f is math subjective? 1+1=2 isn't subjective even when it hurts your feelings.

When used correctly wn8 is telling a lot.

Overall wn8 useless. Tank wn8 quite usefull to compare players

But we never mentioned wn8 as our argument

Stop taking copium and admit your are wrong

[median maple]

in the linked screenshots above

[median maple]

wn8 is subjective as it weighs higher tiers as more important

[obsidian hamlet]

Screenshot literally highlighted winrate and capture points, says wn8 isn't valid

[unkempt osprey]

Where did any of us say anything about wn8? It’s just the wotstars screenshot and he highlighted win rate and cap points and never mentioned wn8. You need glasses?

[cloud ermine]

@median maple dude show me where I pointed at wn8?

I highlighted 2 things

None of them is wn8

God I wish I was still a mod at this point. I'd ban you for trolling

Nobody with out malicious intent can act like you in here

[unkempt osprey]

None of that matters. He won 5 games by capping last night and 0 by doing damage so we know it’s the best strategy

[cloud ermine]

I don't get how one can say math is objective. Bet he'd ban math books because they hurt his feelings

[last drum]

It's pretty easy to understand. Most games end in team destruction. The more destruction 1 individual achieves the less the rest of the team has to contribute. Thus a higher chance of victory.

[cloud ermine]

@last drum liar