Wargaming giving us better communication

[woven terrace]

This is in regards to the cold war changes they told us about today, they have us this information 20 days before it's scheduled to release and I'd like to say thank you wargaming for this as you could have waited until the season details are released but instead you chose to tell us this now.

I hope this is a sign of the future with you letting us know some things well in advance like this, also hopefully these changes are a start to many more good changes

[winter tree]

Except you know those that just spent money on the game for xp for CW lines, silver, tank sales. I’m sure it made a big difference for them.

[woven terrace]

Yeah but it will make a difference in the long run with new lines like the one we are getting next season also if you chose to spend gold for xp that's a personal choice instead of getting it for free. But what I'm saying is instead of waiting till the Friday before the update to tell us this change they actually told us 20 days give or take before it happens which is nice

[strange dirge]

Was any effort made to ask the community if this is a good idea to start with? Or suggestions taken on the whole package?

[woven terrace]

People have been asking for this change for awhile now

[hybrid elm]

What a wonderful day

[woven terrace]

It was and kinda surprising

[plush echo]

https://tenor.com/view/man-watching-looking-fear-scared-gif-20121830

Awe

😂

[woven terrace]

Lol

[radiant crag]

yes better than on the day

I get the changes and think it’s something they should have done from the start (or rather just spun up a separate game somewhere else with its own economy) …but anyway that ship sailed long ago…so no issue there, but there is a flip side to this change…

As someone who literally plays Cold War to supplement WW2 tech tree grinds and bought CW premiums to earn silver, this is going to hurt. I have zero interest in grinding out CW tanks regardless of whatever they do in that mode.

…and whilst I’m assuming the hope is to have a positive impact on the WW2 economy and hence MM in WW2, the problem is they aren’t addressing the other side of this, they keep releasing busted alpha tanks in WW2 making the T8 experience negative (the traditional silver earn tier) so why play that

… so to me this is addressing 1 issue but not fixing the other side, so in that scenario it’s a straight up silver nerf and means I choose to either spend more time in a mode I don’t particularly like or choose to be cannon fodder in the mode that I do

[woven terrace]

I'm sure if they did this now hopefully they fix the problems in ww2 as well.

Also the other major issues in cw like the quick caps and the premium tanks that are ruining the game

[winter tree]

If you are taking this as some kind of sign of better communication you are out of your mind. The window about 6.0 was longer iirc. WG has been backtracking on communication for well over a year now.

And if you are saying this has been asked for a while now, then I guess we all know who the CC they conspired with is. Less than impressed.

[woven terrace]

Lmao the community has been asking for lower module prices for quite some time now and this is better communication compared to what they usually do

[winter tree]

Oh so 1 step forward 2 steps back ok.

[woven terrace]

And where is the 2 steps back

[plush echo]

Why can’t we just take a W and run with it lol

[radiant crag]

I just don’t see it happening to be honest …love to be proved wrong but balancing isn’t something WG are well known for …think of this purely from a business perspective which is the only foundation this change would have been accepted on

earn less silver, introduce more WW2 premium tanks for sale

[woven terrace]

So far it's been 2 steps forward with changes people have asked for, they told us way earlier then usual, and announced a new tank line all in one day like last time I checked all positives

[woven terrace]

I mean cold war is still gonna be the mode to grind silver in until they change the economy in ww2

[winter tree]

Because they again just screwed a bunch of people on sales and you are not apparently reading between the lines on the silver cuts. Again they are not really disclosing. Half truths just like before 6.0.

[woven terrace]

What silver cuts lmao they lowered the amount of silver you earn since you won't need as much silver to buy and upgrade like we do now

[radiant crag]

GP is right there is a business motive to doing it

just be honest about it 😂

[woven terrace]

I mean yes and no cheaper modules means less silver you need to earn

Am I wrong

[winter tree]

They told you avg earn and generalities—things just like before 6.0. They also conveniently didn’t mention repair costs, consumables, ammo, equipment, commanders—all things that were jacked and justified with CW earnings.

[woven terrace]

Commanders don't cost silver lmao except the 9k to switch them, they also mentioned on stream that they will be watching the ammo prices to see if they need to adjust those as well

Consumables are the same price as they are in ww2

Equipment is the same as a tier 10

[winter tree]

Commanders cost for new players and any new commander you want to buy

[woven terrace]

That's the same across the entire game

[winter tree]

It just put new players further out of reach on commanders

[woven terrace]

No it didnt

[radiant crag]

Crazy how much silver you sitting in right now?

[woven terrace]

1 million

[hybrid elm]

I have 200 million

[winter tree]

New players start in CW and the price was justified by CW earn.

[radiant crag]

same as me then …always skint 😂

[woven terrace]

New players can start wherever they want

[woven terrace]

Lol

[radiant crag]

so for you supreme this news is probably not so bad …more happy days

[winter tree]

You have a very narrow point of view and seem willing to just accept whatever WG selling you.

[woven terrace]

What you are literally saying is new players can only start in cw which is wrong

[hybrid elm]

???

[hybrid elm]

Yeah I don’t mind it. I’ve almost done my research for all CW tanks

[woven terrace]

Commanders cost the same amount of gold or silver in ww2 or cold war same with consumables and equipment at higher tiers

The real issue with this will be the ammo costs to which they stated very clearly if it becomes a problem they will fix it

[radiant crag]

look at the numbers …examine the data 😂

[woven terrace]

This change will be for the better at least in cold war whether you agree or not that's your choice but in reality even though you earn less silver it balances out to what the modules and tanks cost

Why do you think the silver earnings are so high now

Also this change will make grinding cold war lines more achievable in a better time frame and you won't have to play in a semi stock tank to finish a grind

[radiant crag]

I don’t disagree …I just think there are wider ripples to the decision is all

[woven terrace]

There very well may be but maybe there isn't and people just think what they change is for their own benefit and not ours

Maybe they are trying to do better and realized their mistakes from the last few years and want to try to make better decisions starting with this

[radiant crag]

then lay out a roadmap

[woven terrace]

Which is why they chose to tell us well in advance instead of last chance they get

[woven terrace]

There's apparently talk of them trying that this year

[radiant crag]

again believe it when I see it

[woven terrace]

Same but let's be honest this is a good start to making good changes even if you don't want to admit it but it's better then oh here's 7 more premiums to buy

Instead they have given one new premium so far with another next week, a new ww2 line to grind and we know there is a new cold war line next season coming

[winter tree]

How long have you been around, seriously?

[woven terrace]

3 years

[winter tree]

That explains a lot

[woven terrace]

So I know how bad it's been

[winter tree]

Not really

[woven terrace]

I've also heard about how 6.0 went

[radiant crag]

well let’s wait and see I guess…but I’m a bit long in the tooth to take stuff at face value 😂

[woven terrace]

So am I but at face value it seems like it's a good start

[hot minnow]

We've been around since before the game was a game. I have, and I think he has too. @winter tree

[winter tree]

Ah yeah you’re taking it a face value…

[hot minnow]

You've been around since beta, correct ?

[winter tree]

You complain on here like daily. One praise post does not somehow make you an angel

[woven terrace]

Lmfao so your living in the past that's cute

[woven terrace]

Ha I haven't been in this server in about a few weeks now

[hybrid elm]

what’s happening here…

I see

[winter tree]

Sorry don’t track your daily movements—you have certainly complained plenty to be calling anyone a pot or kettle

[woven terrace]

Lmao I've only complained a few times about certain things

[winter tree]

Haven’t we all

[hybrid elm]

Why do I smell salt

[radiant crag]

Did you know on average is take less than 50 posts for a thread to descend into anarchy …useless info but always makes me laugh to see it happen

[woven terrace]

Me and @radiant crag were talking civil with him being negative about everything oh and living in the past

[winter tree]

No rule against being negative last I checked

[radiant crag]

negative no, just realistic about how it will affect some and the likely impact to the decision is all

[hybrid elm]

You blocked me and you are here insulting my friend

[woven terrace]

It won't really change the game other then make the grinds better

[winter tree]

I don’t care if he is your friend 🤷🏻‍♂️ Nor did I insult him. He may have taken offense but that’s in his own mind.

[woven terrace]

Sorry I'm mister bad guy here seeing the good in this change but if nobody else can then why should they do anymore changes to this game

[radiant crag]

it will crazy you have a net reduction in silver happening …positive or negative there will be ripples as a result

[winter tree]

I didn’t label you the bad guy. WG is. Continual deception. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. But I doubt it.

[woven terrace]

At this rate with how @winter tree is seeing things they might as well buff everything to have 5000 pen and let the game decent into madness

[woven terrace]

It might but look at it this way why keep the silver earnings as high as they are now when there isn't a need for as much silver

[winter tree]

In CW pen doesn’t matter as much. But for the 477

[woven terrace]

And that's the problem cw doesn't really require any knowledge of the game compared to ww2

[winter tree]

Where do you get this not a need for silver in CW? You just said earlier about people asking for module prices to drop. Now you’re double talking.

[woven terrace]

No I'm not

Once this change gets added we won't need this ridiculous amount of silver we make now

Less cost means less silver you need to make. Am I wrong

[winter tree]

It’s not ridiculous if it was needed. And if they had announced it before sales, WG wouldn’t still be playing deceptive.

[woven terrace]

What sales lol

They don't have any sales going on after this week

Other then premium tanks

[winter tree]

Except they didn’t make it comprehensive and still screwed everyone on sales—my original point btw.

[woven terrace]

They haven't screwed anyone

[winter tree]

https://tenor.com/view/christmas-vacation-national-lampoon-wheres-the-tylenol-gif-15824753

[winter tree]

They just sold CW premiums, just had a sale on xp which people used to go through CW lines, just had a tech tree sale where people used their silver to buy CW tanks that they won’t be compensated for with the change.

[hybrid elm]

Your Gif doesn’t work

[winter tree]

You can read it for the point 👍

[woven terrace]

And that's not screwing them over that was their choice to do so

You don't have to use xp to get a tank line when it's free

[winter tree]

Except WG knew what they were doing.

[woven terrace]

So

It's still not screwing anyone over

[winter tree]

And they try and promote themselves as “Player Protection”

[woven terrace]

Again tell me I'm wrong in what I just said because I know I'm not and I also know alot of people who would agree with me

If you chose to spend real money to skip tanks in a line then that's your own choice and wargaming don't have to refund anything to us if they make any changes in the future

[radiant crag]

There’s going to be 4 primary groups

Group 1: great now it makes my life easier in CW to grind tech trees

Group2: cheesed off they spent a ton on CW grind already and feel cheated

Group 3: see it as a silver nerf as they use CW to supplement WW2

group 4: I’ve got loads of silver and don’t really care

[winter tree]

Even if they don’t “have to” it’s a crappy way of doing business. Maybe you like to play that part I don’t know.

We’ll see when it drops. This is only the first announcement btw. Wouldn’t surprise me at all that there is still another shoe to drop.

[winter tree]

Except number 1 may not actually be true. They gave us an average—win/loss and we don’t know all that entailed.

[woven terrace]

Honestly yeah there's gonna be those people but cold war will still be the way to make tons of silver to fund ww2 and honestly what would those people do if cold war and ww2 had separate silver accounts so you can only use silver in the respective modes

[winter tree]

And that’s the thing with WG—they don’t tell the whole story. Never have

[woven terrace]

How would it not be better to grind lmao first off its less silver you need to spend and second way less xp required to grind

[woven terrace]

And that's your problem what if this time they said what was needed and there isn't more to the story and your just simply doubting them

[winter tree]

Because they didn’t disclose all the costs and didn’t even address all the costs

[radiant crag]

honestly probably would have stopped playing by now as I just don’t like T8 anymore (used to before they started selling T9 then T10 premiums long ago)

[woven terrace]

Well the consumables and equipment are the same as tier 10 so they don't have to disclose that and the ammo costs they mentioned on stream if it becomes an issue it will be changed

Repair costs aren't even that much

[winter tree]

Like I said—we’ll see on the 30th. If I’m wrong I’m not afraid to admit it. But WG has their track record and there has been even less than zero to make me believe there has been any positive change in the last year.

[radiant crag]

Indeed

[woven terrace]

New year so how do you know they aren't gonna do better this year then last

They've already done more good this year then they did last starting with a new ww2 line, this change that should've been done a long time ago and a new cold war line next season

[winter tree]

You realize that WW2 line was promised like 3 years ago right?

[woven terrace]

That's more free new content in a couple weeks then the majority of last year with the exception of season passes and some balance patches

[woven terrace]

Yes I'm aware of this but it took time to get them to work in our version of the game which makes sense

[winter tree]

We can catch up a week or so after the 30th on this. Have a good night.

[woven terrace]

Now did it need 3 years probably not

[strange dirge]

So having read (and had a bit of a laugh) the comments above WG haven't made an effort to ask the community if this is a good idea to start with. So no change to rebuilding 2 WAY Communication. So I ask are short comings in the about to be released changes going to be looked before the next compulsory change?

[woven terrace]

Like I said above if you actually read it this change has been asked for by the community for quite some time now

[radiant crag]

double barrel is a complex system to implement no doubt especially on controller to get it right …the dev team is a lot smaller than we probably think they are especially taking into account what they said about why Berlin was in rotation so much ….WG also chose to use a proprietary game engine not widely used in the game industry so getting new devs in will always be problematic

[woven terrace]

This is true but hey this is already a better start this year then all of last year nearly

2 new lines in give or take a month and a half

With the rest of the year to go still for more lines

I'd say they decided to change something if they are doing this much as quick as they are

[strange dirge]

How was it conveyed? Surveys? Polls? What organized data was asked, analyzed, collected and shared back with the playing Community?

[radiant crag]

yes through that perspective it is …but tank releases isn’t what makes the game a great experience overall (it’s an element sure)…..maps / balancing though needs to be higher on the priority list this year imo …taken so long to fix the game since 6.0 and still to this day they haven’t fully recovered it which was so long ago now it’s nuts

[woven terrace]

Literally many q&a sessions the community have asked for lower module prices in cold war and now they are doing it and people aren't happy about it so maybe at this point they should fully commit to ruining the game to the point of its unplayable and maybe then people will be happy

[woven terrace]

Hopefully that's next on the list

@radiant crag check pms

[strange dirge]

um going back searching #wotma-bulletin and Weezy QnA questions asked back to the being of 2021 I found one question. Asked on the 3/6/23, Any updates on CW pricing are module costs? Reply was being investigated but no information to share at the moment. Is there more? I may have searched wrong. I searched Weezy as user and Cold War.

[woven terrace]

01/21/22, 02/11/22, 04/29/22 and 06/02/23 are all in discord Intel and all were questions that were answered

I just searched cold war module pricing and those were what I got

There might be more but I'm to tired to bother any further lol

They also had similar replies so maybe this is the answer people were wanting but now it's here and it's the biggest fail in people's eyes and it's not even here yet

[strange dirge]

So 4 questions in 3 years? That was the extent of research? 4 people asking 1 question over a 3 year period? If I did that at work for a change to company policy and product development, I would get sacked. Please not I'm not having a go at you personally, just comenting on the concept of better communication by WG.

[woven terrace]

I mean it kinda is better communication though they couldelve waited until they announced the next season but instead they chose to do it now so even though it may not be a two way thing they still communicated with us what they were working on and let us know 2 weeks early which is better then what they've been doing

I made this thread more or less to praise the earlier announcements and that they should do this more often

[strange dirge]

True ⬆️. Which by history standards its great. Pity its all one way communication. Oh well fingers crossed for next year.

[ashen plume]

Well it will make the Ingame economy way worse for us players, but at least we have 3 weeks to prepare by farming credits like no tomorrow

[woven terrace]

It won't really make much of a difference lol lower silver costs require less silver to grind and that's something people don't understand

[ashen plume]

Earnings get reduced more than costs, so it will make a huge difference if it goes live like the article describes it

[woven terrace]

You are reading to deep into it, it's gonna be more or less like ww2 where premiums are the way to make great silver

[ashen plume]

Well I'm only reading it with the numbers provided by WG, and those will result in a much worse economy for players

[woven terrace]

Also your still not seeing why they are doing it, it's being reduced because of the lower costs everything will be, the reason you make so much silver now is because everything is super expensive where this change will make everything millions cheaper

[ashen plume]

Yes but the earnings will be cut stronger than the prices made cheaper, which makes the silver struggle worse than it is now

From the article: Base earnings are cut by 56%, which means the cut to net earnings is even bigger with repair and ammo costs staying the same

Costs for vehicled are "only" reduced by 52% and costs for modules by 54%. So even if it's net earnings instead of base earnings it would be a net loss in silver

[vagrant forge]

The silver earn comparisons in the article of the E3 and M48A5PI are Net earning, not gross earning

[ashen plume]

The article also describes base earnings to be 56% lower tho

"On average, the base Silver earn rates across all Eras (before applying such factors as quest rewards, boosters, Premium Time, etc.) will be adjusted by -56%."

[vagrant forge]

Let's take the M48A5PI as the example here.

First, remember that -56% is On Average. Having good games still equals more silver overall.

But, back to our tank. Currently it earns us about 29,000 Net Silver on average
On Jan 30th, that's going to decrease to about 17,000 Net Silver.
(That's actually only about a 42% decrease)

Now, that's our base earnings. On top of that, there's the premium accounts, Challenge rewards and more. Let's say you only have the Silver Bonus from the season, that's on average 21,250 come jan 30th. (For the current average games, that's about 36,250 silver)

In comparison to the let's say the PI's gun module (a much cheaper 350,000) that's 16 games to get silver to fund the gun compared to a massive 55 games under the current system.

Now here's a second but! These are all averages, based off as much data as we have. If you have a good game, you can still have good silver earning games meaning that -56% is simply that, an average. Your games will still determine how much silver you bring back to the garage

[ashen plume]

Yes those are averages, which means my average income will be 56% lower than now. I will continue to have good and Bad games even after the Patch so calculating with averages is fine. If the average costs are only reduced by 52% and 54% I will have to grind more for silver after the Patch, than I do now

Premium time and boosters as well as the seasonal 25% bonus are multipliers. If you reduce the base value by 56% the multiplied value will also be reduced by 56%. (It does have an impact on net earnings tho, since ammo and repair costs are unaffected cy boosters)

The Tank from the example M48A5PI only had a decrease of 42%, which means some other tanks will probably have a decrease of 60%+ in order to hit the average of 56%. If those tanks that have higher reductions are the Era3 premiums (the best credit earners ingame) the silver grind for many will become noteably longer, despite the reduced costs.

However if a Player only plays era1, then it will probably be a lot easier and cheaper for him, since most cost reductions are in that tier.

For now with the published values I'm very concerned about the future of cold war

[winter tree]

Can we get a better break down? Instead of just average including wins and losses together, can you break it up by average win net income and avg loss net income. What’s the 98th percentile on each of those as well?—so we know how bad the losses can be. Also please do a variety of top era 2 tanks and a variety of era 3 tanks as that is where it seems the income falls more and the reductions in costs are less.

[strange dirge]

Question. Is there any data on what is considered by WG a "good game"? (and not players as everyone has an opinion on what a 'good' game is). A sample end of battle report for the example tanks on the website?

[woven terrace]

Instead of them just trying to explain it in words maybe they could show off the change in game on a stream to give us more understanding of how this change will work @sharp sparrow or @vagrant forge could this be something you guys could relate to whoever and see what happens

[strange dirge]

Anything would be appreciated.