(+1/-1) Matchmaking

[queen raven]

I’m sure this has been said a million times over, but thought I’d give a fresh perspective from someone who started out on World of Warships Legends and migrated over here with a group of solid ships players. The +2/-2 matchmaking in this game is enough to make most stop playing the game after reaching Tier 5. When you are up tiered +2 you are basically canon fodder and will contribute nothing to your team, plain and simple. Every single one of my clan guys is in agreement that the way warships does matchmaking is so much better which is +1/-1. I really think you should take this criticism and know that a lot of people likely walk away from the game because of crud matchmaking like that.

[olive blaze]

Sad to hear and yes it has been a area of concern for years. If you are playing with mates I suggest using Coop mode and /or using Tier 4 which has +/-1 mm. There are several Preferred Match making tanks (which you have to buy with gold) that have +/-1 MM at Tier 5.

[queen raven]

Thanks for the input and yes I do own a few of the preferred matchmaking tanks. Unfortunately, my clan mates from ships aren’t willing to purchase any just yet so they only work for me when I run solo.

[rare comet]

I have to comment out of rage grinding my kv4 rn. +/-2 is absolutely bonkers stupid and the argument (if it was a good game) should be about getting only equal tier mm to which they could say no we dont have the players so we need to do +/-1, and we agree there. +/- 1 is perfect for the game and i truly cannot understand in what world they think my kv4 with 190 pen should get +2 matches with only 3 t8s on both teams

[near timber]

You have 250 pen on gold. Who plays KV4 on standard rounds? Lol

[bleak totem]

AND…don’t forget that being bottom tier in -2/+2 is as high as 66%. At least with -1/+1 makes it 50/50. My experience lately is when you pick a tank to play, it starts in the bottom tier. And if you play like I do, selecting different tanks each game, you end up bottom tier most times. It seems the algorithm has to start on the bottom so it can keep track. Change the tank and it starts over, more times than not.

[olive blaze]

Given the above info I would avoid PVP as much as possible, play Coop and slowly (and cheaply) let your mates. 1. Grind Tier 5 without getting smashed by Tiers 6 and 7. 2. Learn how to use different tank types without getting smashed. Have FUN talking to each other as you play, in a simpler playing environment. 5. Slowly build up silver and XP without getting smashed. That's what I would do.

[balmy granite]

I agree, T6 vs T8 is not fair

[rancid mauve]

Coop isn't worth the time. The xp is awful.

At least if you are bottom tier you get extra xp for damaging and killing higher tier opponents.

[olive blaze]

Whilst I acknowledge the low silver and XP returns in Coop mode, and did so in my reply, the OP was concerned with +2 MM and how, even at Tier 5, his new mates were already feedup by WOTC compared to WOWL. Having tried Warships (which didn't get me hocked) I understand their POV. To get his friends hocked into tanks , invest the time required to learn the game in 2023, I believe Coop is the best training ground. By all means play Tiers 3 and 4 in PVP, but not Tier 5 and above.

[worn crater]

Have coop allowed to be bottom 2 tiers I won't mind it to earn little extra xp and silver than be top tier

[buoyant sigil]

Yeah if you’re grinding tier 8 it’s best to run it on coop till tier 9. It’ll be extra grindy but it beats being halved or wiped (unlucky) in one shot by the current tanks. On the plus side you can run pure non-premium ammo and consumables on coop and if you’re blueberry on normal multi, you’ll easily be top 3 on coop.

[olive blaze]

Tipicaly I have found Coop mode to be either +/-1 or even (i.e Tier 5 only match ups).

[fickle fjord]

this is what I do to grind my 8s and stock 9s. I just earn consistent and have WAY more fun.

[balmy granite]

Became very apparent to me in the T6 Swedish TD line

You have pretty much no pen against t8 and can do almost nothing

Tanks that can compete with t9/10 shouldn’t play t6

[bleak totem]

That’s the issue to me. A tank has to be strong enough to not be useless when two tiers down, but by the same token, it is at the expense of being OP when top tier.

[balmy granite]

Yeah exactly, I mean I can’t even pen T7/8 lower plates as the t6 Swedish td

It’s just not fitting

[tribal hound]

Not to mention how disgusting it is to go up against a FULLY UPGRADED +2 tier tank with your brand new -2 tier STOCK tank!!

[heavy palm]

It was possible mid 2020 but the thing is wargaming threw the majority of their veteran playerbase away back then and now the player numbers/queue is low, meaning that getting 1+-1 could take relentlessly long and therefore they won’t return it. Despite them hosting it a few times, according to WG it didn’t work out, mainly it did, but WG still naively prioritized the queue time in MM over quality matchups (since WG focused to improve new-players-experience, regarding the faster queue times to access battle fast, leaving new players with their t10’s and barely doing 1k against t8’s). This meant that the brilliant idea of having doable matchups when being bottom tier, which will only cause you to see a tank tier class either one higher or lower than you, being scrapped. Not only would 1+-1 help with evening out the tank classes that lacks in player base, but also makes people more engaged when knowing they aren’t gonna partially be mitigated by a tank that’s 2 tiers above itself. However, i don’t think it’s gonna return or neither are wargaming having any interest in doing so, but show must go on and let’s just appreciate getting one-tapped by Avre in tier 8 👍

[foggy adder]

stock KV4 is a tough grind. I did it back in day before i had prem. Just Spam gold and HE, use cold war to fund it. That D25t is just horrid. The 107 will see you do better.

[tribal hound]

They have added BOTs for a reason, so there is absolutely NO excuse as to why they can't make -1+1 happen. Sure, it may be a while before that goes away. I'm very sure that if they do that then eventually they'll have more players coming back & more players staying. They Already have to use BOTs so why not just use it with -1+1 & collect "data"? It would be in their best interest at this point.

[radiant nacelle]

I’d be more than willing to play 10 v 10 if the facilitated us getting -1/+1 MM. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[olive blaze]

The underlying issue is pretty straightforward, Server Cost. WG most likely has done some number crunching and believe more servers would be needed for +/-1 MM. More servers mean more cost and maintenance for WG. 10v10 would probably reduce Player waiting time but it would require more servers (due to 1 game having 20 Humans max per game instead of 30).

[smoky bloom]

Bots require more server processing power, so more bots may be a resource issue. Besides, from what I’ve heard the MM is designed to minimize top-tier matches. If that’s the case then +1/-1 may not allow for that.

[pearl reef]

I don't mind the +/- 2 except when 6 and 8s are concerned. I feel like these are the tiers that struggle to pin +2s. I love my 8s, but I hesitate to play them as often as I would like to because of it. Premium rounds and week points dosen't always yield success.

[tardy iron]

When you have +2 MM in tiers 5-8 (cause that's what we're really all talking about). Grinds are more frustrating and longer, you're more apt to buy premium time, and you're much more likely to convert XP into Free XP so you can skip modules and for some, whole tanks. Converting has always made a lot of money for WG, especially in the early years of the game. It was a literal pixel Gold Mine for them, so why are they gonna give that Up ? >>They're Not<< We're mostly all wasting our breath by asking, who knows maybe in the last year of the game they'll switch it, just to bring ppl back and have them spend as much as possible before the "Thanks 4 All The Years With Us", Notice is posted, and the power is turned off. A Wise person will consider to himself that perhaps this coming change in CW is to get more people to convert XP, into Free XP there as well, before it was so expensive that very few people would or could do it, now, they're hoping more will. Makes me wonder if PG wasn't making enough money for them, "The Old Fashioned Way" so they yeeted him, closed the prem tank store back down, and set out on a plan to get more people to spend money on grinding CW. Now you're gonna have to have Premium time to make silver. (esp for non prem tanks) This goes hand in hand with why you can't have +1 MM. I don't have the authority to tell you all to stop complaining cause you're not getting it (+ 1), but stop complaining cause you're not getting it. (at least not until the game's on it's very last legs) ..Hope That Helps...

[summer dune]

No tank in the game should have to fire premium to be even remotely competitive... Never because then the game devolves into truly pay2win.

[summer dune]

Agree about 6 v 8 & 8 v 10 being the worst for +/-2. Also we came up in the game at +/-2 so it isn't as big a bother to me since I have most of the grinds done. But the game has drastically changed with more spaced armor & derpy guns. Grinding tanks today are a pain for newer players. With BOTs at all tiers +/-1 makes more sense because the wait times wouldn't increase which was the major argument by Max against +/-1 in the Supertest & forums.

[bleak totem]

We may not be able to make WG change, but it is quite obvious that this game needs to be balanced. WG can always do what they have been doing and ignore the complaints. And we can vote with our feet, which is not the way I would like to see this game go. However, one thing I found out was that I could quit for 3 years and not miss it. I like playing this game, but I can also recognize that -2/+2 has become untenable due to the obstinate attitude of WG. You have indicated that we should stop complaining, but I think the better solution is that you consider sop reading.

[tardy iron]

You're not wrong, they just don't care enough. It seems that they feel without question, that they'll make more money in the short/long run by making players grind more.

[summer dune]

I also left the game for an extended period of time. From 6.0 until the middle of December 2022 (3 yrs as well) I re-discovered being a real gamer versus a single game player. I now play other games than tanks daily & like yourself found that I didn't miss it (especially the sweaty & toxic very loud player base) the game is greatly improved since 6.0 but still has much to be done to remotely be as good as it was during the pre-6.0 years. MM is by far worse now than before (with NO 5 person platoons to blame for it).+/-2 & 3 person platoons just don't make any sense given the current MM & with BOTs in the game... At least it doesn't to me.

[candid veldt]

While I'm all for +/-1 MM and appreciate it being brought up constantly, I also have no Illusions of it ever happening.

As Player friendly as WG has gotten over the years with seasons and easily earnable tanks, it still shows that +/-2 MM and atrocious stock grinds are what they earn their money with.

The latest tank line starts out with one of the longest and most disgusting stock grinds in the game. WG knows that the line was highly anticipated and wants to gently force you to spend money on free xp conversion or endure an extensive amount of torture.

In terms of raw balance, looking at maxed out tanks, I actually think that since their "Reforges" back then the game is in a better state than at any time before. (The OP premiums since then made it worse again, but still better than in the old days)

[summer dune]

They need another round of "Tanks Reforged" IMO certain older TT & Premium tanks need a bit of love again in my opinion. But overall I'll agree with you about the positives of that 👍

[bleak totem]

I no longer grind up the TT line, due to the ridiculous amount of XP required on many tanks. One example is the Foch that I started before I left for the 3 year break. I have the Tier 9 and have earned over 179,00 XP toward the tier 10….. I still have to reach 290,000 to get the tier X, 110,000 more. Since I play free, I don’t bother any more. I am sure I have more, but WG has disincentivized me from buying into it.

[olive blaze]

The last WG Update from the 26th of March... "Matchmaking improvements:
Adjusted the matchmaking rule so that, if after two minutes there aren't at least five bottom-tier tanks per team, the match will be created without the bottom-tier tanks. This change is to address feedback about instances in which a player could be the only bottom-tier tank in a match."

This is No improvement fron this as all it does is provides all the +2 tanks a minimum of bottom Tiers tanks to harvest/smash/farm as easy kills.

[prisma lake]

Unfortunately the game turned into a slot machine. The reason for -2/+2 is for the player to get frustrated in matches and buy gold and skip stages.

[smoky bloom]

It is an improvement bc when you are bottom tier, at least 1/3 of the other team is the same tier as you. Also, only 2/3 at the most can be +2. It actually increases your chances to be competitive when bottom tier by a lot. I’m definitely a +1/-1 advocate, but to say that this MM change isn’t helpful just isn’t true.

[olive blaze]

I disagree (respectively). If WG can 'make' a game with a minimum of 5 tanks that are -2 why not make a game with -1? Use bots if required to fill the "bottom 5". Hell make the Bots -1 or even Top Tier. The way the player base is in 2024 having 5 bots rather than players is not a bad thing.

The use gold, skip stages is based on the false premise that grinding to the top of WWII Tech Trees is the best thing to do. I personally hate Tier 10. Its a complete waste of time with the worst game play (closely followed by Era 3). Tier 8 is/was fine, except it constantly gets ruined by Tier 10 match ups.

[smoky bloom]

Again, I’m an advocate for +1/-1. I agree with most of what you just said…not arguing that, but I do think that the recent MM change that implements a minimum of 5 bottom tier tanks per team in -2 matches is helpful bc when you are bottom tier it increases the number of same tier tanks that you face while also limiting the number of top tier tanks that you face. It probably also decreases the number of bottom tier matches that you see because in some cases you might get put into a top tier match instead of being put into a match where you would have been 1 of 4 or less bottom tier tanks on your team.

[tribal hound]

WG seriously NEEDS to implement an option on the menu similar to how you could choose either Multilayer or Co-Op & do the same for -1/+1 & -2/+2 & improve the game's long term problem from years ago.

[bleak totem]

I am not sure it would work. Technically, it could be done, however, WG has already diluted their player base by having multiple play modes. And that doesn’t even cover the players that have quit in frustration.

[tribal hound]

That's the consequences of them not doing what obviously needed to be done years ago.

[olive blaze]

Ok I thought I'll be brave and take out for a spin with the 'new MM' my Tier 6 Absolution. 9 Tier 8's, 1 Tier 7 arty and 5 cannon fodder Tier 6's. Not happy. Felt cheated, angry and depressed as soon as I looked at the roster. A loss of course, -2,400 silver on a FTP earnings. I won't be taking it out again in PVP, its back to Coop mode for my most played tank.