HE 2.0 is a necessity.

[high berry]

I am genuinely interested in what you think

Took me a minute to think of that

[modern pilot]

What does lowering the pen have to do with this when the alpha is the issue?

You want multiple rings of potential damage instead of 1, but what difference does this make when you say they search for the best potential.. when that’s exactly what ours does now

[high berry]

I guess this could potentially create a weird meta of shooting HE at the ground under tanks, but that could easily be accounted for

[modern pilot]

Most people joke about QB, not sure wether going with this opinion warrants any gratification here

[high berry]

Bc this would incentivize hitting as close as possible to the plate with low pen

[modern pilot]

But the pen, again, isn’t the issue

If you splash pen means nothing, it’s all about alpha

[stiff badge]

The video demonstrates why I don't want HE. All it did along with arty 2.0 was make hull down tanks impervious.

[high berry]

I guess I should add that higher armor plates should have their effectiveness against HE increased

[modern pilot]

Yet, our HE does significantly less from arty now than PC Arty

[stiff badge]

Yep and I hate it.

[modern pilot]

Our low tier arty could still be an issue since it was incremental, but high tier arty on console is absolute garbage with HE and they don’t get stun

So what’s the difference

[high berry]

But the problem with one ring of penetration from HE is that HE will find ridiculous pens when it shouldn’t. My HE redesign would reward shooting directly at plates with thinner armor

That’s why I’m proposing having multiple rings of pen that aggressively lose pen with distance from the impact center

[modern pilot]

So if you’re already shooting thinner plates, what do the multiple circles do?

[high berry]

Nothing. No combo damage or anything😂

Basically this

[modern pilot]

I didn’t think so, but what I’m understanding is the multiple rings just does the exact same thing as ours already does

And if you’re already shooting the weakest armour, the rings aren’t doing anything

[high berry]

Ring 1 45mm of pen? No
Next Ring
Ring 2 35mm of pen? No
Next Ring
Ring 3 25mm of pen? Yes
Successful HE pen

[modern pilot]

How is 25mm penning more than 45

Or are they expanding more the later it is

[high berry]

Imagine hitting an area of a vehicle where Ring 1 has is hitting 70mm of armor

Ring 2 is hitting 65mm

But ring 3 is hitting 15mm if armor

But if Ring 3 hit 30mm or armor? No pen

[modern pilot]

Right so it is expanding the later it goes, but again penetration would only impact the origin that the shell hit

And saying “pen” makes it seem like the HE would do full damage

[high berry]

Yea full damage

But removing splash

The ideas is to incentivize shooting at cupolas with HE and things like that, but just spamming a front plate of a Chieftain isn’t gonna do anything

Cupolas and whatever other weak spots there are

“Weak spots” that have thin plates in their very close proximity

The cupola isn’t actually being penned, just the turret roof right next to it

Let’s say it’s being penned by Ring 2

Like with the Kranvagn for instance. It only has 25mm of turret roof armor

And this hypothetical HE has 35mm of pen in Ring 2

I guess you could maybe play around with very low amounts of splash damage

But yea, let’s just say that HE, AP stays the same, APCR/APDS/APFSDS/HEAT have higher pen but lower alpha, and HESH has lower pen on 90 degree impact, but higher pen on sharper angles

[modern pilot]

Yeah no, this is enough to make this change completely overpowered

[high berry]

I mean it depends on how you balance the alpha too

[modern pilot]

Kran approaches a ridge, gets HE’d for 1.2k by a Taran aiming high on the turret

[high berry]

And my hypothetical numbers are no indication of how it could be balanced

[hearty furnace]

Our he already seeks the lowest armor withing blast radius

[tacit cape]

or FV4202 farming Chieftain's with 480 HESH.

[hearty furnace]

But now you want it to full pen

[high berry]

Read through what we were talking about. There’s key differences

[high berry]

Nah HESH wouldn’t act the same as HE

It would be its own Utility round

Perhaps a utility round that’s better at handling sidescrapers

[high berry]

You know given how it’s a utility round, a completely different look at alpha for He could be alright

And make sense

You pointed out something important

Maybe 60% the alpha of AP?

It kinda takes the damage of current splashing, but gives it thoughtful gameplay

And I should keep in mind, this should be about using utility rounds to tackle specific situations, not boosting dpm with higher alpha

[tacit cape]

That's over 600 dmg every 13 seconds just for hitting high on a turret

[high berry]

Well part of that problem is the Taran’s reload itself

But also the Kranvagn’s cupolas are still very very small

It would take skillful shots

And not every tank has bad roof armor

[high berry]

Look at the Kranvagn in Armor Inspector or Tanks.GG. It would take very well placed shots

[tacit cape]

I'd rather just HE 2.0 and it becomes a high risk-high reward round

We're not looking for realism, we have GI Joe tanks for crying out loud

[high berry]

Nowhere have I mentioned realism other than saying my HESH solution is coincidentally how it works in real life

Bc I think that is actually a very unique function that would serve a purpose for combating sidescraping tanks

[tacit cape]

Sidescraping tanks don't need a counter?

That's the whole problem with HE, punishing people for playing their tanks right

[high berry]

Are you contradicting yourself?

[tacit cape]

Uhm, no?

[high berry]

Sidescraping tanks don’t need a counter, but HE can punish them without skillful play?

No I think that is a contradiction

[tacit cape]

You can't read, but that's okay

[high berry]

Unless I’m getting it wrong

[tacit cape]

Sidescraping tanks are playing their tanks correctly, which means they shouldn't be punished by a HESH round

Just like in our current game, hulldown tanks get slapped for 700 for playing their tank right from HE

[high berry]

But this potential HESH round would need to be placed away from tracked and spaced armor

It wouldn’t be an auto pen

What I’m proposing with all of this has the same spirit as your He 2.0, but in ways that make sense for the rounds and give them mechanical diversity

I’m proposing a solution that gets rid of slappping people for 500-600 to the front plate with the Type 5, but rewards players for shooting HE or HESH at just the right spot to counter effective strategies like sidescraping and hull down play

Although I will say, I do think splashing should stay for super high caliber rounds. Maybe design it similar to overmatching. Perhaps if the Tank cannon is twice as large as the plate, the shell can splash if it’s not able to pen

[rancid spoke]

But we already can use HE and HESH effectively, it's by know where thin armour is and swapping when suitable

[high berry]

This was just me trying to come up with a different solution to their problem. I’m really not that invested in this particular issue

I think there’s other more important things to address, like the overall game’s pace being way too fast bc tanks are getting more maneuverable with higher dpm

But I do think HESH should be given a more unique function

[rose pollen]

thats what has me worried

like at that point why use it over AP( or gold) in the brawl stalemates its designed to break

even if they did add frontal weak points back, just use AP on them

honestly you'd best save HE for rear and flank shots, but then were back to the problem of being unable to do so cause the hull down tanks are dug in

ahh well guess we'll find out if they decide to add it

[modern pilot]

You would save HE for the rears, the same as we do now, or certain side/lower plate armour is penetrable with the higher pen HE rounds such as those found on British tanks, but it gives tanks like the CS-63, E-50M, EBR 105 and quite a few more (especially things like E-100 and Obj.705A with higher pen HE) opportunities to optimise their damage and be rightfully rewarded.

[tacit cape]

Underpowered tanks like FV4202, Cobra, and Caliban would all become much better too

[rancid spoke]

Especially the cobra, that thing was built around HE 2.0

[modern pilot]

So was the Caliban

[hybrid depot]

Honestly if the cobra got 1.1k she’ll speed back the he we have wouldn’t be that bad for it

[narrow oak]

Still won't change it was made with he 2.0 in mind

[hybrid depot]

That’s true too

[polar sonnet]

Would he 2.0 make my earthshaker prem hesh pen the flat side of a tiger 2? If so I'm all for it lol

[hearty furnace]

Yes he 2.0 will alow he to pen spaced armor as long as it has the required penatration

[dusty wolf]

Funny how this conversation is about HE penetrating spaced armor. When i see AP & APCR fail to pen 30mm of spaced armor flat lol. I don't think WG knows how AP and APCR shells work against spaced armor. As well as AP and APCR not being able to go through destructible bricks. HEAT not going through that does make sense But AP and APCR not going through doesn't make sense

[clever comet]

So HE can or cannot pen spaced armor? Be nice if got someone to jump into a training room to see

[rose pollen]

I think no

but you still get some of the splash

[clever comet]

only way to find out is to try but. but got no one to try it with.

[hybrid depot]

No it can not

[grand ridge]

YURI this is no fun for US

[serene bobcat]

I am fully against the 2.0 HE rework idea. HE is the only thing that can punish hull down tanks with strong turrets, which are already meta. HE right now is also an alternative to premium rounds in some situations, and that going away is bad for free to play players. Right now HE is a viable round choice to carry in most tanks, with the rework you will only need a few of them if any.

[hearty furnace]

Hulldown is meta?

What game you playing

[zenith veldt]

hulldown is meta

good 1

what tier u playing 7 ????

t29pov'

[rose pollen]

there isnt much of it at low tier cause everything is a box

Teir 8-10 with the amount of russian dome turrets and pike noses one sees its easy to think that theres a meta around it

but no just busted tanks with no frontal weak points that the skill for "angling" is literally just staring straight at your opponent and getting free deflections.

meanwhile E-100 and Maus drivers have to angle everything to the perfect degree and thatss before the Gold starts flying

[zenith veldt]

What

Incorrect

Armor doesn't exist in this game

[rose pollen]

~~Especially since the Taran went on sale again ~~

[zenith veldt]

@hearty furnace

[hearty furnace]

🤣

[rose pollen]

honestly though I find Gold to be infinently more irksome to brawling then HE

Partially cause I see it more at the high tiers

literally the only time I've dealt with HE at top tier is the Type 5 and artillery

[hearty furnace]

Bar,Sturmtiger,type 5,4005 215b 183,arty,and pretty much any 150mm caliber gun if they fire he

[rose pollen]

and yet most of the time Im seeing red and white tracers

I get that they CAN HE spam

but Im seeing more Gold than anything

[hearty furnace]

Of course gold rounds are part of wot culture

Every one spams gold doesn't mean they will pen

But Everyone can spam he in a high caliber gun and do upwards of 500 damage no need to aim

[rose pollen]

if the RNG doesnt screw em

which considering my feelings on artillery I get can also be annoying, as it is something that no matter the prep it will "just happen"

[stiff yacht]

Premium rounds are only a problem when they are high penetration rounds with next to no drop off

You cannot fault someone for choosing a still bad round over a borderline unusable round

Even with premium rounds there are many tier 10 tanks that still require you to aim at weakspots

Is7, maus, E100 with the 12.8cm, pz7

All of these are examples of tanks with premium rounds that still require skill to work

The tanks with "problematic" premium rounds at tier 10 are: 268 5, 268, taran, E4, E3, jagpanzer E100

Just because you fire premium rounds doesn't automatically mean you lack skill, you need to look at what tank is in question before you can determine that

Or do you honestly expect people to fight an E4 with 250 AP

[rose pollen]

Yes

Regular AP should be a viable option

but against alot of tanks at high tier it isnt

cause WG removed frontal weakpoints

but now were going in circles

Lets just leave it at. Yes I understand that someone shouldn't be allowed to just shoot and do damage without the working to understand the tank their fighting

at the same time

One shouldn't be allowed to just sit there in the open and reflect all shots for free especially when some tanks of the same class require so much more work to pull it off then others

[frail epoch]

They Nerf artillery so now it looks like people are moving onto the next thing to complain about

[tacit cape]

and that going away is bad for free to play players.

Premium ammo is basically free nowadays, there are so many silver ops.

[zenith veldt]

Truers

[serene bobcat]

It's really not. I play semi free to play, and if I used premium ammo for every situation when it would be useful I would not be able to save up to buy new tanks. You can break even using premium ammo, but not make money that well.

[tacit cape]

I shoot mostly premium ammo and still make silver to buy things

[serene bobcat]

And do you have a premium account or the season pass?

My point was without those.

With it is easy.

[tacit cape]

Season Passes can be earned for free

Keycards from Long Haul guarantee free gold

[serene bobcat]

Yeah, you can earn enough gold after playing for 6 months if you save it all. Technically everything is free in the game, but that is not realistic unless this game is your main hobby.

[tacit cape]

With the addon of the Ruthless, and the suggestions I see with other HE tanks. I think it's time to bring this thread back into relevance.

I am once against asking WG to consider HE 2.0 instead of letting noobs run rampant in HE tanks and slap hulldown tanks for 600 in the turret just for playing their tank right.

[pearl lotus]

HE tanks are too profitable to be effectively nerfed in such a way

[shell copper]

It seems like noobs running rampant in HE tanks is intentional. It’s a $$$ thing, and an effective one at that given the sheer battle quantity on the AVRE and ruthless

[tacit cape]

It likely is a money thing, but I want to know if the potential money spent by higher skilled players could be more if HE 2.0 was created

[shell copper]

Almost certainly not. High players are a very small number. WG makes money on the masses

[tacit cape]

That's fair. Does it mean it'll stop stubborn me from bringing it up? No

[minor rapids]

All anti arty and anti HE topics should be renamed "i want hulldown totally invincible"

[hybrid lodge]

This is the death of derp gun like t49 or kv2 and I dont think there are op. I make 200 dmg on type 5 every 17 seconds, I think there are more op tank than that. I love those tank because is just fun like the Sheridan (maybe the worst Tier X in terms of performance) while I have much higher stats with the bc25t. All this tank would be useless

W/R speak itself. But its just fun 🤷 I think WG have more important things to fix than HE

[hybrid lodge]

Like I said, some HE tanks are OP, other really arent

[rigid vector]

who plays the Sheridan with the derp? the standard Gun is much better.

[turbid plume]

Standard gun is just for MOE

Derp is to well have fun and a blast

[hybrid lodge]

For the memes

At the beginning, play a game is not for fun ?

[rigid vector]

Fun for me is playing good😬

[hybrid lodge]

With skill you can do both

[opaque kelp]

No, nooooo

No HE rework

That's stupid

What's the point of HE if it doesn't HE?

the point HE is to be if you can't pen armor. It will still deal damage. HE 2.0 completely screws with that

Yes, I'm aware I'm a year late

[shell copper]

It’s the opposite. He 2.0 guarantees damage with HE

A tier 3 HE round is guaranteed to do damage on a maus upper plate with HE 2.0

It’s effectively a nerf to high caliber (>130mm) HE and a buff to everything else

[turbid plume]

wait really?

[tacit cape]

Yes really

Which is a good thing, because no more AVRE/Ruthless/Type 5/Sturm/etc HE spam

I can play the E3, get hulldown to a hulldown 5 minutes after the match starts, just to get HE spammed and hit for 500 through my armor every shot

Not to mention, the stupid engine fires HE starts at random

[opaque kelp]

Dude, I'ma be honest, that's a good thing. You shouldn't be able to just sit in one spot and nobody can do anything about it

[tacit cape]

It's an E3, not hard to outplay

Slow and non-turreted, outplay it, flank, reposition. Not drive forward and RBRT through armor for 500

[opaque kelp]

Well, then they should nerf the damage of high pen HE then

[tacit cape]

HE 2.0 would do that...

[opaque kelp]

Not add 2.0 it makes worse HE worthless

[tacit cape]

HE 2.0 fixes high dmg HE and makes it more viable on smaller guns

idk if you missed that

[opaque kelp]

Where do you find this information?

[tacit cape]

Complex Rework of HE shells: In the new system, HE shells will be able to penetrate armor and cause damage at the point of impact. They will also be able to penetrate screens, tracks, the wheels of wheeled vehicles at the point of impact, as well as insignificant and/or destructible obstacles.

https://worldoftanks.com/en/content/docs/release_notes/

HE shells can pen spaced

Deal damage to the point of impact NOT the weakest armor plate in the splash radius like we have

HE shells will never do 0

[tacit cape]

This is the greatest problem

[opaque kelp]

Isn't the whole point of HE to be splash? For example. 2 enemies are lines up together, fire an HE at then where they connect. Both take damage

That would just make HE a worse. But module destroying AP

I mean, yes, changes on HE do need to be made. I just don't think HE 2.0 is the way

[shell copper]

Only stuff >170mm really can splash more than 1 tank

[opaque kelp]

1. No, I've splashed more than one tank with a Pershing before
2. Bro, just because I don't wanna argue with you about SHs doesn't mean I wanna argue with you about HE

[minor rapids]

After everything u saw and didnt like in arty 2.0 why would u want HE 2.0? Doing same thing, expecting different results??

[turbid plume]

I personally don't mind them actually, I like variation and sure the first couple weeks are tough but I haven't seen a lot of those anymore in weeks maybe 2 AVRE per game like 2 days ago but if people focus them first then problem solved mostly

[rigid vector]

i would say i know how to use my sheridan, and i am doing well in it. Playing with the derp is like playing with one hand of course some people will say i like the challenge but you wont do as good as without a handicap.

[hybrid lodge]

Handicap is fun sometimes

And you just prove that HE is not a problem for all tanks

[rigid vector]

the Problem with HE is that u dont need to aim for weakspots, that means even if u dont know Sh.. stuff about the game just fire into a Tank to dmg him.
With HE 2.0 you have to get good.
Many players now are just beyond bad with tactics knowledge ect. because they get Tanks like the Avre with which u just have to hit the other tanks to do massive amounts of dmg.
With HE 2.0 u can improve your damage output if u know the weakspots of a tank and people as stated before need to get good to do dmg with HE.

[merry ember]

Hopefully our HE didn't damage your gold marking Ultra Unicum ways, but let us keep HE the way it is on console, nobody wants it to turn into Arty 2.0. You're asking an entire community to capitulate to the desire of your hemorrhoids. Sounds like WG already makes a World of Tanks game mode that matches your deepest and darkest fantasies. * whispers into the mirror...they call it the P.C. E.g. Leave our HE alone, Good Day Sir !!!

[rigid vector]

Yeah i know many people don’t have the mental capacity to improve in the game. in many other games those will be left behind so be glad console make those HE tanks so even if you can use only 2 braincells you are able to autoaim enemies and do massive dmg.
Still its bad for the game if new players don’t have to learn anything because they can drive those tanks and become the potatoes of tomorrow

[merry ember]

Sorry I was Harsh but I don't want anything else ruined or changed, it doesn't end well for us. Plus most derp tanks have low accuracy and aren't meant to aim for weak spots, and it's nearly impossible to hit weak spots on the move in things like a T49 or Tusk. And just because a few of you can, doesn't mean the rest of us can. Console is meant to be controller. I hope mouse and keyboard doesn't give those players a serious edge here, like on PC ? Does it btw ?

[hybrid depot]

facts pigeon boy

[tacit cape]

I think we should bring this topic back to light with the continuing discussion of the AVRE

[cosmic knot]

instead of changing all he in the game, I think the best option is to change the he ammunition of certain tanks, Otherwise tanks like the KV-2 will be useless

[mossy pendant]

KV-2 has AP as well. You can use that

[cosmic knot]

Yeah, 110 mm penetration, very effective bruh

[solid yew]

It's not a necessity

HE 2.0 would not even be a discussion if it weren't for the AVRE being so overpowered

[bright heath]

Just gunna say targetted rebalance of a few problem tanks would probably be more time efficient

[stiff yacht]

On PC they did actually buff the Kv2 when they did HE 2.0, same with the Type

[mossy pendant]

Its been a discussion well before the AVRE. Arty, 183s, Type 5, etc.

[solid yew]

I doubt HE 2.0 would ever happen because of the tanks that have been designed around the HE mechanics

[solid yew]

Agreed

Changing HE mechanics just because of the type 5 and avre

[minor rapids]

Where u people got this idea that hulldown has to make u invicible, it pops out these last years and it isnt making any sense.
Yeah u should go hulldown, sidescrapping etc. But u shouldnt expect to be 100% safe. Game shouldnt be just about u angling ur armor properly and hiding hull, most important thing should be teamwork.
Also HE shells pays price in reduced dmg and if u mention that derp superheavy reload sux on that thing.

Also CW needs HE to deal with some "superbalanced" premiums.

[mossy pendant]

Hull down tanks arent 100% safe. You just have to shoot weakspots.

[smoky oar]

People gonna hate me for this but I don't want HE 2.0 in this game at all. I'll bring up some reasons why later because I'm to busy but feel free to downvote 😉

[shell copper]

HE 2.0 does exactly what you want. Hull down valour or is7, tier 8s and 9s often have no chance of doing damage. With HE2.0, HE is guaranteed to do some damage if it hits the main armor. It also makes it so that tracks and spaced armor can’t block HE rounds as effectively. It also rewards good aiming if HE rounds since it eliminates HE “seeking out” thinner armor. This winds up making high caliber HE worse since they have the largest splash but makes every other HE round more effective

[opaque kelp]

Fellas, I don't think they're gonna implement HE 2.0 anytime soon

[shell copper]

We know, we just wish they would

[merry ember]

We Really Don't want PC, HE !!!

[tacit cape]

Hull down tanks aren't completely safe, most have weakspots, and if they don't, they have glaring other weaknesses, and can be outplayed

The only one that doesn't I can think of is the Valour

[stone prism]

ive never had issues with hull down Valours, il snipe the cap or brawl with a tank that has 4more°. Oh no he went hull down - get over it

so does a vlour. Im yet to test my new leopard AP vs it, but my heat did go on the cap.

[tacit cape]

I know, it's just much much harder to hit

[stone prism]

valour has cap, its small, horrid to hit. Kran and IS7 have the only turrets id say were uncontestable. Kranly works when using all of its GD. 50b hull. Upper plate squishy. And yes just get over 50% bouncing, gun doesnt work

[tacit cape]

Kran and IS-7 both lack pen, so they have weaknesses

[stone prism]

get it right lol

[tacit cape]

Kran has a horrid gun and IS-7 has no gun depression

Gotta use the edit to save myself

[stone prism]

but kran has a massive glaring weakness when it leans over to shoot guy close up. Top of turret gets sniped by stuff it cant see, cause it has no VR

[tacit cape]

Exactly

My point is they have weaknesses

[hybrid depot]

HE 2.0 in console's case would save a lot of headache

PC not have a bunch of derp/absurd alpha guns, while here we have Sturmtiger, 4005, 183, Taran, AVRE and etc

Or we should have HE 2.0, or else massively buff Spall Liner

So we can have a counter to those clickers

[solid yew]

Arty is already bad as is

Stop crying

[hybrid depot]

I didn't even mentioned arty, but if the culprit serves

[solid yew]

?

You said clickers

[hybrid depot]

Clickers can also be AVREs

RBRT clickers

Arties also serves, but its analogic + RT

[shell copper]

Arty should be worse, even though it's already bad

[hybrid depot]

Its a broken mechanic, "lore" and gameplay wise

Drone vision from above + indirect firing

Anyone know another game that does that? Idk

[cold swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[vernal nebula]

Players crying because they're not invincible behind their little perch? How fresh and original....

[hybrid depot]

I see that you are worried with your AVRE being nerfed, ik its so hard to hang on in something else thats harder to play

[vernal nebula]

I don't own AVRE. Never played it.

[minor rapids]

So is this about HE or is this about broken vehicles with broken aplha? I dont mind at all balancing those and i also dont mind reducing high alpha dmg no matter the shell type.

[stiff yacht]

The issue is being hit in your most armored spot with a non penetration and still receiving 400-700 damage and a chance of engine fires

[shell copper]

You tell me. I'm just providing information about how HE2.0 works on PC. You seemed uninformed and I'm just trying to help you understand that HE2.0 kinda matches what you specifically are asking for

[minor rapids]

And u trust our dev team enough to implement this properly?

[shell copper]

Copy paste from PC? They've been exceptional at that

[scenic vine]

All the trash cans like @honest moth thumbing this down

[honest moth]

:)))

It’s thumbs up and down

Stop stalking me @scenic vine acting like Dakota

[scenic vine]

Dakota hit unlike me :/

[stiff yacht]

💀

Wtf

Is on my screen

[solid yew]

I don't care I want Type 5 and and 4005 to be good

[hybrid depot]

Get good instead of relying in broken shet

[solid yew]

Broken ? Lmao have you tried not peeking maybe you won't get shot

[hybrid depot]

I wonder what the Maus, E 100 and even for God sake Rogal Dorn mains would think about this

[solid yew]

If you think HE is the reason SUPER HEAVIES are terrible I have nothing else to say quite frankly

[hybrid depot]

I feel bad about who plays with super heavies and get splashed for 700 dmg bcs ppl like you can't play normally

[hybrid depot]

Ah dude, thats one example, any tank suffers from this

[solid yew]

YEP HE is the reason they're unplayable in the game 😆

[hybrid depot]

Its funny to see that someone who relies in HE is capable of write

[solid yew]

Resorting to insulting nice

[hybrid depot]

Insulting? Its even prizing

[solid yew]

I think the conversation is done for your sake

[shell copper]

Super heavies are the best class

[hybrid depot]

Resorting to close the subject nice

[solid yew]

I don't want to have a conversation with someone who'd rather insult my intelligence than have a genuine conversation

[hybrid depot]

I mean, you insulted mine when said that want your 4005 and Type 5 to stay good

HE 2.0 would make them even better, if you are able to aim

[solid yew]

Yeah you're incapable of having a genuine conversation

[hybrid depot]

Are you running out of arguments?

Say something else instead of this

[solid yew]

No but you are just being arrogant

Just pointless to hold a conversation with you

Insult me because I disagree with you, play victim repeat . Genuinely just incapable of human conversation

[hybrid depot]

You know, I'm just out of patience with WG and who relies in arties and HE splashing guns to actually do something

[solid yew]

I don't care

[hybrid depot]

Keep running out of the subject, after all you are capable of human conversation

Why HE 2.0 would make tanks like 4005 bad?

4005 PC players manages to score 12k or more dmg matches with it, even with HE 2.0

[solid yew]

HE 2.0 is not a necessity it genuinely makes no sense for our game , changing a game mechanic all because of a select few tanks being very good with derp guns.YEP change the game mechanics instead of simply nerfing the tnaks

[solid yew]

Our game is not pc, hope this helps 👍

[hybrid depot]

Issue is that WG won't nerf the tanks with derp guns like AVRE, so alternatively HE 2.0 would band-aid the problem

[hybrid depot]

Ik that PC have a lot of differences from console, but I do think that HE 2.0 would still fit as a band-aid for some issues

[vernal nebula]

There are so many "skilled" players in this thread who want the game to be easier for them

[solid yew]

I think alot of the people in here just like to ignore that alot of the tanks in our game are designed around the HE mechanic and to be honest with yall only HE tank I find problematic is the AVRE but its not the gun that makes it problematic

It's very interesting that this is the talking point for tier 10 too like its not completely camo dominated, and TD dominated

Sure it's unfun to fight a type 5 like its impossible to fight it without any damage received but its way less of a problem than the current camo td meta

[hybrid depot]

Camo equipment with flat 60m modifier, yeah

Even Waffle E 100 can have camo now

But together with that, we have HE spam. If they was like KV 2, which takes a lot in consideration to have this kind of gun, it would be actually fine, but thats not the case

[cold swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hybrid depot]

I mean, they alone aren't, but still an issue

[bright heath]

Nah totally is see; High Explosive Anti Tank rounds with 400 pen on tanks with 200m camo

[hybrid depot]

And 850/950 damage per shot, absolutely fine

[bright heath]

Ight so reading through the PC HE rework I have some questions on how they would be applied to console.

It seems that on PC all non penetrating HE damage was drastically reduced as well making it a point projectile where splash is irrelevant unless making direct contact with armor. The trade off to this at least in PC seems to have been slightly improved accuracy values and the ability to penetrate screens where the screen is calculated as being 3x more effective than it's thickness vs HE.

My big questions on these changes are regarding splash dependent vehicles. It seems anything with a low penetration and high splash damage would be effected disproportionately as the ability to penetrate screens would not remedy the significantly lower non-pen damage. A proposed add on I would make is increasing non-penetration damage on weaker armor.

[tacit cape]

You would definitely have to rebalance some vehicles, which is fine

Sturm, Type 5, KV-2 being the best examples

[bright heath]

Arty would also be a big point. Not sure how that would be compensated

Regardless though I think compensation against thinner armor non pens would be important. Unless the solution is just to significantly increase HE pen on those splash vehicles

And by that I mean a shift from focus on splash to a focus on penetration similar to a HESH round

[stiff yacht]

The way HE 2.0 works is having the splash damage scale off the armor it hits instead of what's weakest in its radius

So if you hit weaker armor you'll deal more damage

[bright heath]

The wording on the PC article indicates otherwise stating all non-penetration damage is reduced

[stiff yacht]

They worded it 3 different ways between 2 videos and the article, 2s

[bright heath]

I'll check the other sources when I get more time but from what I read it sounds like it would be lower. When I am saying weaker armor I am referring to things exceeding the penetration value of the round but not significantly. IE: 115mm of pen splashing on non pen against a 150mm turret face would currently splash into the thinner roof/engine deck dealing more damage than it would after the HE change with only the impact on the 150mm plate being accounted for.

More than happy to see non-pens do hardly anything in the case of the same round impacting 200mm plus armor

[stiff yacht]

https://youtu.be/zRBQq48HGjU?si=WJcXOABuoIbW4zFZ

Here's the best explanation they gave

[solid yew]

Yeah HE 2.0 should not happen, just nerf AVRE please 🙂 make both sides happy

[stiff yacht]

Uh huh

Because nerfing the AVRE will stop every other howitzer splashing armored tanks for 400-600 damage

[bright heath]

The video actually illustrates what I am saying very well. The damage is indeed lower in the scenario of non-penetration

[stiff yacht]

Oh right yeah, which is the idea

But they could make it scale higher with thinner armor

[bright heath]

Yes that is what I am trying to point out. That or to increase the HE pen specifically on splash dependent vehicles (high splash low pen tanks).

[stiff yacht]

As long as brain-dead RBRT HE spam is punished I'm down for whatever

[bright heath]

Def feels bad to be snapped with 600 splash damage but in theory the punishment is that the HE tank's effective DPM is atrocious. Pressure them and they are going to lose that fight since most of them (Except the AVRE) are slow and and easy to pen

[stiff yacht]

They've had their reign of terror for years, it's about time a playstyle other than just firing as much 💩 down range as you can got time to exist

[bright heath]

I would argue that the other high alpha TDs pose a much more significant threat. I'd rather take 800 HE damage from a 4005 to my turret face every 19 seconds than 850 HEAT through the turret every 11 seconds

Like again the HE is annoying because it doesn't need aiming but our current high dpm and high pen tds are a much more significant threat as they will consistently out damage an HE tank

[stiff yacht]

Oh don't worry, I still hate those

But at least it's possible to block them, and when they don't pen they can't ignite your engine

[solid yew]

What other big howitzer is an actually good tank?

Seriously

Type 5 is a damage farm

[bright heath]

It's true, the AVRE is the only one I would consider problematic since it doesn't suffer the drawbacks the other high caliber tanks have (being slow and easy to pen)

[solid yew]

Agreed, I am genuinely confused how people are finding HE is more problematic than 230m concealment tanks with insane alpha or burst damage

They'll shrug it off like "oh its just the taran" uhhmm what? There is literally multiple tanks that have these features

[bright heath]

I think it's the idea of HE not requiring precise aiming but tbf 395 heat doesn't require precise aiming either. Only time that bounces is an autoricochet or they hit tracks

[solid yew]

These big derp guns provide way more counterplay than any camo tank does lmao

[bright heath]

And that's not mentioning 375 APCR 😱

[solid yew]

Sometimes you will know a 268 is on a flank and u have no option but to turn around or wait for someone else to push it

[solid yew]

Even then its whatever . like you said the AVRE is the only derp gun tank that's not slow, big meatball with no camo

I think its genuinely just a better route to ask for AVRE nerfs rather than asking for multiple tank rebalances just because of one tank

Sure it sucks getting slapped for 500 by a 4005 when you're playing perfectly but at least I get to shoot back at them

[bright heath]

Agreed. That being said there are ways HE 2.0 could work but just the amount of development time that would take when one tank could be just directly nerfed seems to not be worth

[solid yew]

Plus more arty nerfs simply just not happening

[minor rapids]

Not with balance patches