THK was raised and trained to prime form in the white palace, the knight wasn’t
#why knight so small
tidal kiln
deft parcel
because none of the other vessels were raised in the way THK was
i mean the growth wasn't natural
tidal kiln
More void would just break the shell
worthy kestrel
because its body is that of a baby
tidal kiln
how would that work
sterile mesa
the current theory is that WL did some growth magic iirc
tidal kiln
The shell is PK and WL’s kid
worthy kestrel
how would that work
so first you get a soul-infused funnel
then you realize it's a bad plan and stop
tidal kiln
I’m gonna funnel ketamine into my body if you don’t shut up
sterile mesa
where would they find a bigger shell
tidal kiln
the shade wouldn’t even be able to inhabit another body
none of the vessel shells in abyss are animated again by a shade
and they both locked off the abyss and the shell is again, WL and PK corpse child
sterile mesa
it makes a lot more sense that WL used growth magic, since she is shown to be able to change her own size, or even possibly change the form of others as with marmu
And the knight simply didnt get this special treatment from WL, and they couldn't either since the WL is bound
THK is just the favorite child
they were all born at approximately the same time
glacial oak
Well Broken Vessel grew a little, so maybe vessel growth has something to do with being in Hallownest (and not being dead)
Although that theory somewhat depends on when BV died
worthy kestrel
@keen surge 
keen surge
Hi
worthy kestrel
there's natural variation between vessel shell sizes
glacial oak
No need, I just checked the other discussion forum
worthy kestrel
because they're siblings not clones
tidal kiln
threatening
pearl plume
The Knight was just born tiny (haha short)
glacial oak
Although I'm with mossbag on still thinking something is up with BV's size despite the evidence
tidal kiln
BV’s size isn’t even as big as one thinks, because their cloak is fucking huge for some reason
worthy kestrel
mothwing cloak
glacial oak
Wait, who says all the vessel died during the climb?
What if they just had a tea party at the bottom for an extended period of time and ended up dying through some mysterious means?
That would explain why other vessels are as big as they are
worthy kestrel
vessels don't grow
glacial oak
Says who
worthy kestrel
if they did the knight would be as large as thk
they're also not biologically alive
glacial oak
Well what if their growth has to do with being around PK?
worthy kestrel
bv wasn't around pk
glacial oak
They were in Hallownest
worthy kestrel
so was thk for a while
glacial oak
Closer than the knight
worthy kestrel
there are also a large number of shells in the abyss that are as large as bv
because natural variation in siblings is a thing
glacial oak
Who says they were born that way?
worthy kestrel
some are just gonna be larger than others, would be stranger if that wasn't the case
keen surge
They were in Hallownest
So was TK lol
glacial oak
For how long though?
keen surge
Until it escaped the Abyss, and then escaped the kingdom. PK has no ties to growth anyways.
tidal kiln
if PK had ties to literal growth every vessel in the abyss would be similarly larger than normal
glacial oak
Well for one, I'm willing to bet TK was in Hallownest for a much shorter period of time than all the other vessels. And secondly who says PK isn't related to vessel growth?
tidal kiln
he did literally camp the top of the abyss
tidal kiln
Well for one, I'm willing to bet TK was in Hallownest for a much shorter period ...
Why would he be? He’s never implied to have any powers related to growth
keen surge
Lack of outright contradiction =/= proof for an evidenceless idea
glacial oak
Why would he be? He’s never implied to have any powers related to growth
Well PV got jacked somehow when all the other vessels didn't
glacial oak
if PK had ties to literal growth every vessel in the abyss would be similarly la...
You mean like the ones that larger than normal in the Abyss?
glacial oak
I forgort to turn off pings, sorry
tidal kiln
And there’s a way better explanation for PV growing that isn’t PK
keen surge
Well PV got jacked somehow when all the other vessels didn't
Its stated PV was raised and trained to prime form, and WL has supernatural ties to her children along with her silhouette being on the chair in the nursery where THK was trained
glacial oak
do the words “every” mean anything?
All I'm saying is maybe vessel growth has something to do with being in Hallownest (and not being dead)
sterile mesa
Well PV got jacked somehow when all the other vessels didn't
WL is established to have growth powers, she used them on PV
glacial oak
Not every vessel would be larger than normal because not every vessel would've attempted the climb and died (In theory)
tidal kiln
White Lady’s entire existence
tidal kiln
Not every vessel would be larger than normal because not every vessel would've a...
why would the climb make them bigger????
And again, the knight did the entire thing and grew absolutely none
glacial oak
why would the climb make them bigger????
Them being alive would make them bigger (In theory), not the climb
tidal kiln
White Lady has been established to vary heavily in her size
tidal kiln
Them being alive would make them bigger (In theory), not the climb
The Knight, again
glacial oak
They left Hallownest
keen surge
Them being alive would make them bigger (In theory), not the climb
Yknow...vessels are dead fetuses
tidal kiln
White Lady has been established to vary heavily in her size
Her imprint in the WP nursery vs her current size in her cocoon bindings
glacial oak
Yknow...vessels are dead fetuses
Some fetuses are more dead than others
keen surge
I can assure you Joker, I can prove thats how it works
For you see, I can make Mr. IsThisGoodEnough more dead than me!
tidal kiln
Back to my original point, White Lady is also implied to have the ability to give Marmu wings, and as she is a caterpillar, she’d be forcing Marmu to metamorphoze
glacial oak
My theory is that
- PK's presence makes vessels grow only if
- They're not dead dead
tidal kiln
and also her giant ass extension in pantheon 5
You literally pulled the “not dead dead” stuff out of thin air
glacial oak
BV is more dead than TK
tidal kiln
they aren’t varying degrees of death man
glacial oak
The Knight is what I would consider an "alive vessel"
tidal kiln
That’s like saying “oh a bleeding person is less dead than a corpse”
Or “a not moving zombie is more alive than a moving zombie” is a more apt comparison
For the latter, they’re both dead
glacial oak
The knight can move their body on their own
Other vessels cannot
tidal kiln
insert white lady dialogue here
keen surge
You still havent given proof for why PK makes vessels grow
tidal kiln
theories need evidence lmao
glacial oak
This is my speculation
tidal kiln
and there’s a better explanation that fits with the evidence purported by the game
white lady being the main mechanism behind vessel growth
glacial oak
PV grew alot and he was glued to PK
BV grew a little and he was in Hallownest and not dead for however long
TK left Hallownest at some point and so it would stand to reason that they would be smaller
Again, I'm not saying that I'm right. I'm just putting forth a theory
keen surge
Theories require evidence
tidal kiln
again, easier explanation that doesn’t require as much speculation
glacial oak
Theories require evidence
I gave you some of my evidence
sterile mesa
PV grew alot and he was glued to PK
BV grew a little and he was in Hallownest an...
correlation =/= causation
theres already an explanation for TK and PV. BV, admittedly leaves me stumped but the fact remains that there are already explanations that contradict that theory
tidal kiln
You gave one piece of evidence
keen surge
Thats not evidence thats just attempting to explain how your speculation would have worked
tidal kiln
one piece of evidence that is just “well PV was around PK so it has to be him”
versed birch
theory: improper nutrition
evidence: being locked within a cave does not allow you to get a proper balanced diet unlike being the son of a king
conclusion: the knight is nutrient deficient idk do the vessels even eat?
glacial oak
You gave one piece of evidence
That's enough for a theory last time I checked
tidal kiln
They can eat, don’t need to
versed birch
maybe it said it somewhere
tidal kiln
That's enough for a theory last time I checked
are you high
glacial oak
are you high
Are you?
tidal kiln
what theory only has one piece of evidence?
glacial oak
Sorry, I keep forgetting about the pings
sterile mesa
theory: improper nutrition
evidence: being locked within a cave does not allow y...
they are corpses, those dont really grow from nutrients
glacial oak
what theory only has one piece of evidence?
Why is that not enough for a theory?
silk basin
Absolutely not 
sterile mesa
Why is that not enough for a theory?
because it contradicts other, better supported theories
glacial oak
theory: improper nutrition
evidence: being locked within a cave does not allow y...
I think it's something like that, but replace food with PK's presence
tidal kiln
In the first image, you can clearly see the imprint of White Lady on the chair. This implies this is a chair she sat on. She is a smaller thing here
silk basin
You need more than 1 piece of evidence for a theory to be even considered
tidal kiln
tidal kiln
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hollowknight/images/0/02/Screenshot_HK_White_L...
This is white lady’s current size, compared to the chair, she’s fucking enormous
versed birch
Why is that not enough for a theory?
“my source is that i made it the fuck up”
sterile mesa
WL has the ability to change her size, and as with marmu probably the ability to change the forms of others. She also has a special connection with her spawn, so the reason with for PV's growth is almsot certainly WL using this power on her child
tidal kiln
This is her implied size in Godhome. While this isn’t directly her, and some of the size can be attributed to perspective, she’s fucking gargantuan here
Within my roots, the weakening of the Vessel I plainly feel. Only two obvious outcomes there are from such a thing.
Does it... feel anything? Triumph? Or hate? If it does, I cannot sense it.
Only this small one I register, if maybe because it shares some piece of myself. This one stands clear upon a misted world.
In three separate dialogue exchanges, she’s shown to have a nebulous connection to her children. Sensory, being able to see them, etc
glacial oak
WL has the ability to change her size, and as with marmu probably the ability to...
Where's the source of White Lady giving Marmu wings? I can't find it
tidal kiln
Wake me when the Queen arrives, stranger. Perhaps the Queen will teach us both to fly, stranger!
That... would be fun... wouldn't it...?
I've kept it safe, this sacred garden! I've kept it safe for all this time, and soon the Queen will return and teach me to fly!
Here, Marmu implies that the White Lady would teach her how to fly
glacial oak
So it doesn't outright say it anywhere, it's just implied?
tidal kiln
this makes absolutely no sense, as she has no wings. However, Marmu is modeled after a puss moth caterpillar, and those undergo metamorphosis and grow wings. Based on the amount of dialogue and images that relate WL and growth, it’s way safer to assume she was the one who made them grow
sterile mesa
"Queen will return and teach me to fly!"
tidal kiln
And as a last note, Queen’s Gardens are taken directly from Unn, and yet the foliage is much larger and more wild/dense than Greenpath’s
Considering all of this evidence, it’s heavily implied that WL has growth powers, of which PK has none
greenpath vs queen’s gardens foliage example
and thank you for your time
worthy kestrel
qg macroflora is related
it establishes wl powers which accounts for THK's abnormal size variance
sterile mesa
greenpath vs queen’s gardens foliage example
thats actually a really cool piece of evidence! i never noticed that
glacial oak
How big do you think PV got before WL stopped babysitting them?
sterile mesa
Pv’s a corpse, so they wouldn’t grow outside of WL’s magic
So probably to the size we see in game
glacial oak
That's an interesting image
lethal spade
small bones