Formal mathematics isfull of most underrated practices of superstitions, we must rise above delusion

[lament summit]

See ya 👋

[feral panther]

I dont see a problem here? sure learning axiomatized maths maybe useless for most people but how does that make it wrong? and superstitious? I am not doing maths to apply it somewhere as an engineer nor am I learning it do physics. why should I care about these things?

they are not

[wide yarrow]

The ragebait is successful

[feral panther]

no one is teaching category theory to regular kids? also common sense is not enough in so many cases

[feral panther]

I do not believe this person is ragebaiting, they are just against abstractions/ dont see the point

[arctic marsh]

i wonder what he thinks of art

theres quite literally no reason other thsn it being interesting and amusing

[wide yarrow]

Well it’s fine if he doesn’t see the point, but saying it’s harmful is bonkers

[feral panther]

i kind of understand where hes coming from? in physics you might be able to get away with stuff using common sense because there is no way you will encounter something like wiestrass function, but when we are studying maths we don't restrict ourselves to reality. we are studying everything, so common sense just breaks down

[wide yarrow]

Yeah I can understand why someone wouldn’t see the point of abstraction, but saying it’s harmful is too much

like creeper said, art is rooted in abstraction

Well maybe « rooted » is an exaggeration but I mean it uses human imagination

Just like math

[feral panther]

i doubt he cares about art that much? I think his entire point was that math is not an art and is used by people to apply in real world, therefore should be treated differently

there were mathematecians who would have agreed with him tbh

[arctic marsh]

not all math needs to be applied to the real world

but

[feral panther]

this was a quote by vladimir arnold

[arctic marsh]

sure, math can be useful in the real world, but pure math isnt fuelled by pragmatic use cases alot of times

idk why he demands it shud be useful when its mot the point

[feral panther]

oh @lament summit are you reincarnation or arnold bro?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Vladimir_Arnold

[feral panther]

I dont think he is completely wrong, I think math majors should be taught the applications of their work. but axiomatization is not superstitious

bro i am convinced rabijit is just vladimir arnold in another id

[arctic marsh]

sure, but i think the core of his argument is that axiomatized math isnt useful and too abstract, im simply stating that we shouldnt demand practicality from an endeavor that isnt concerned with practiality

sometimes math isnt done for practical uses

[feral panther]

well I have to go study some useless calculus, ill see you guys later

[simple escarp]

brownian motion is something you should encounter

and it looks like an aneurysm

[lament summit]

Yes I don't see point I see dots and I bet no one sees points ever they are nonsense

[lament summit]

Ain't a follower previously but I didn't knew he was bit like this , that's good

Two people can likely ask the same question but two people can't by coincidence publish paper on calculus in a decade and one other still commenting on its discovery over the same continent out of nowhere

But I won't go into that

That's seperate discussions with historians

Someday in future

Also no one can show me pi or define pi logically if they can't show me circle or points

All fairytales and fairytales going on from the axioms , if the axioms are fairytales why should I move to the theorems they will be just an epic on fairytales

[lament summit]

By the way there is no other way to define pi on its own , and don't bring infinite series cause they are just huge sums and infinite series of fractions not pi , whatever the sensible description is it's always 'rational' by some rational mathematician not 'irrational'

[lament summit]

I didn't knew you love real analysis... Nevermind

even the real contains the rationals. 🤞

But still is unreal nevertheless

[simple escarp]

if you need convincing of why the reals are okay I could try later

I have no regards for philosophy (in this scenario)

[lament summit]

Reals are never ok they are ok in dreams

[simple escarp]

you don't have to know what pi is.

[lament summit]

You don't have to know math then to not do math

Really

[simple escarp]

you do

if the symbol weirds you out write it as an infinite series, integral, smallest positive period of sin

surely you don't disregard existence of sine do you?

[livid river]

@lament summit
basically math is like mathematical stuff

[lament summit]

I don't obviously cause you can show a sine to me a ratio to me

[lament summit]

Cute superstition

[simple escarp]

do you disagree that sine is periodic?

[livid river]

idk what you're saying but you can learn math!!!!

[lament summit]

You have to know what you do if you don't you are just believing blindly what is in english called a superstition

[simple escarp]

I am not following a superstition, you are wrong and think you aren't.

You are being skeptical of the wrong things. I've heard many arguments bashing the reals and this is not one of the sensible ones

[lament summit]

Depends I am not asserting yet I am just highlighting blasphemy

[lament summit]

No why would I

[simple escarp]

by highlighting something as something, you assert...

[lament summit]

I disagree that irrationals exist

[simple escarp]

and what's the smallest positive period of sin?

[livid river]

basically irrational numbers are real numbers that aren't rational

[lament summit]

Yes an thus one becomes irrational

[simple escarp]

@livid river I'll give you 5 coin if you can educate him about the construction of reals starting from integers

[livid river]

you can use khan academy

[livid river]

ok

@lament summit imagine you have already constructed Z in set theory
the construction is going to go in 2 parts:
Z to Q (easy) and Q to R (hard)

[lament summit]

Construction I will give you 5 billion dollars if you can construct root 2 with any physical device in existence

[simple escarp]

diagonal of an unit square

[livid river]

Q is just Z prod. (Z-{0}) under a quotient by eq. relation ( (a,b) ~ (c,d) iff ad = bc )
@lament summit

[lament summit]

Only if you can ever draw a unit square

Lol 😆

[simple escarp]

are you a finitist perchance

[lament summit]

Come out of dreams you don't have ruler of infinite accuracy it's not Axiomatic World

[simple escarp]

I do agree you can never draw an unit square physically

[lament summit]

Then why did you claim that

[simple escarp]

but rejecting things like this bars you from speaking of any length at all

[simple escarp]

because I didn't think this is the point you are skeptical about

anyways this is even less of a reason to challenge how we do math

[lament summit]

Oh really lengths are measured with standardization don't go to that thats rubbish

[livid river]

you define addition and multiplication in Q by:
(a,b) + (c,d) = (ad+bc, bd)
(a,b) * (c,d) = (ac, bd)
@lament summit as exercise, try proving these are well-defined (with respect to the equivalence relation)
you can think of these ordered pairs as (a, b) "=" a/b

[wide yarrow]

pi is a/2 where a is the unique positive generator of Ker(t—>e^it) (which is a closed proper subgroup of R, thus is cyclic)

[lament summit]

Humans have been measuring lengths before agriculture

So that doesn't makes point here in any way

[livid river]

@lament summit ok now the hard part:
constructing R from Q

[simple escarp]

@livid river rabijit does not follow

[livid river]

oh

do i still get money

[simple escarp]

5 coin is a hefty bounty

you have to work for it

[livid river]

wait like
real coins?

[simple escarp]

you'll be able to get a sticker of your choice into the server

[livid river]

i don't use stickers

[wide yarrow]

I think pear already talked about this

[wide yarrow]

In this channel

[livid river]

oh

@lament summit don't worry i believe you can understand this stuff eventually B)

[lament summit]

What is that what I can also define pi to be proper subgroup of alpha 3 ket spaces with an unique negative zeta generator

[lament summit]

No

[feral panther]

unnecessary

[lament summit]

You don't get money for any pure mathematics

[livid river]

not my fault you don't understand though

[lament summit]

Right but it's joke

[livid river]

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/mr-class-9/xdc44757038a09aa4:real-numbers
@lament summit

[lament summit]

See even you stucked while constructing R from Q

[simple escarp]

what?

[livid river]

i can do it though?

[simple escarp]

we stopped because you weren't following

[lament summit]

If you can do it I will give you 100 rupees

[livid river]

i know the cauchy definition at least

[lament summit]

Or dollars

[livid river]

dedekind i have a vague idea

[simple escarp]

read like any book on introductory real analysis

[livid river]

i don't want money but ok

[simple escarp]

it'll have a construction

[wide yarrow]

Just do a lecture on field completion atp

[feral panther]

actually

[lament summit]

Putting last term in a infinite series and giving it an name doesn't makes it complete 😭

[livid river]

R is the set of cauchy sequences in Q modulo the equivalence relation (a_n) ~ (b_n) iff a-b converges to 0

[lament summit]

What is a cauchy sequence then?

[feral panther]

sir sir, look into completion of metric spaces

[lament summit]

Unnecessary

[livid river]

a cauchy sequence in Q is a sequence x_n of rational numbers s.t.
for all e > 0, there exists N natural s.t. for all a,b nat > N we have
|x_a - x_b| < e

[lament summit]

Extension to fuel blackboard chalks

[livid river]

@lament summit

[feral panther]

a_n and b_n are separate sequences, cauchy sequence is a sequence whose terms get closer together

[lament summit]

Got it and how you turn it into irrational?

[outer pivot]

Top Users - Page 1/25

1. 79575459343222397342973957225325

Points: 9100

2. martingalian

Points: 7016

3. scilent413

Points: 4599

4. rabijit_14330

Points: 4184

5. ncladus

Points: 3258

[elder nest]

I'm the second

[livid river]

an irrational number corresponds to a cauchy sequence that doesn't converge

[feral panther]

it is actually necessary for you if you want to know why we care about real numbers

[lament summit]

So if it never converges how are you using it in calculation

[wide yarrow]

an irrational is an equivalence class of Cauchy sequence that doesn’t converge

[lament summit]

Yes explain then

[livid river]

what calculation?
the number is the sequence here

[feral panther]

maybe complete your talk with girlepic

[lament summit]

You don't know answer of series so you turn into imagination and believe it for good

[wide yarrow]

Pear already explained this

[livid river]

it's not a series, it's a sequence

[lament summit]

No answered

[wide yarrow]

a Cauchy sequence in Q doesn’t necessarily converge

[simple escarp]

hes asking about how operations are defined on R

[wide yarrow]

so we create a bigger space such that Cauchy sequences converge in that bigger space

[lament summit]

Whatever XYZ is ain't converging is useless

[feral panther]

its not we don't know, we know it doesn't converge. we know there is no limit to the sequence in rational numbers

[simple escarp]

sum of [an] and [bn] is defined to be [an+bn]

[wide yarrow]

That bigger space is the set of real number

[livid river]

and we're not taking its limit
we're taking the number as the sequence itself (modulo the eq. relation mentioned earlier)
@lament summit
as i was typing this coffee guy told me you wanted to know about operations
sum of real numbers is sum of their sequences, and multiplication is multiplication of their sequences (both operations preserve cauchyness and eq. relation, if you want to check)

[lament summit]

If you don't know can you order them?

[feral panther]

what?

[lament summit]

Fine atleast tell me that can you order real numbers

[simple escarp]

we can

[lament summit]

Do real numbers have cardinality

[simple escarp]

yes

[livid river]

@lament summit you're not taking the LIMIT of the sequence
the irrational IS the equivalence class of a sequence

[wide yarrow]

C:= Cauchy sequences form over Q a ring and R is the quotient of C by the ideal of Cauchy sequences converging to 0

[livid river]

ok i have to go
cya!!!!

[wide yarrow]

Which is a maximal ideal, so R is a field notably

[feral panther]

oh yes we can, if you look into any construction of real numbers, we prove that they are ordered, add, multiply, inverses exist everything

[simple escarp]

I feel like rabijit does not have enough mathematical maturity to understand how the reals are defined

it'll take some time

physicist

[feral panther]

he doesn't like formal mathematics, barely studied it

[lament summit]

Nah indoctrinated maths students don't have enough maturity to understand why 10 comes after 9 and

The fairytales of irrationals and the brainwash of academia since 19th to 20th century

[simple escarp]

never grew past the "concept chamkega"

[lament summit]

You just believe cause is herd 🦬

[lament summit]

Perfectly indoctrinated

[feral panther]

why does it?

[wide yarrow]

Let $C$ be the ring of Cauchy sequences over $\bQ$ and $\mathfrak{m}:={(x_n){n} \in C, \lim{n \to +\infty} x_n=0}$ then $\mathfrak{m}$ is a maximal ideal of $C$ thus $C/\mathfrak{m}$ is a field which we denote $\bR$

[feral panther]

dont say common sense

[simple escarp]

@lament summit will you be on campus around 7th jul?

we can talk in person

[round saffron]

Rotator

[lament summit]

Why not maths is not beyond logic it's built on logic

[feral panther]

we had something like this as homework

[feral panther]

why not use infinite series to define pi then?

[lament summit]

Yeah typical exercise to enforce platonic ideals

[zealous tundra]

How the hell do you prove the archimedean property

[feral panther]

why not use equivalence classes to define irrationals?

[simple escarp]

insane statement

[versed depot]

Well, maximal ideals.

[feral panther]

I dont remember

[lament summit]

Hits hard 💪

[simple escarp]

@versed depot if you can get him to understand how R is defined I'll give you 5 coin

[versed depot]

What are "coin"?

[simple escarp]

I'll do a few hours worth of work for you even

[feral panther]

what ideas

[wide yarrow]

Yeah, it’s a nice contruction in undergrad

[simple escarp]

things that benifit you irl

[versed depot]

1 coin = $100USD?

[zealous tundra]

@lament summit do you know what rational numbers are

[simple escarp]

If it's in my ability

[lament summit]

Yes 🖐️

[simple escarp]

it's an hour of your time

[zealous tundra]

*1rs

[lament summit]

I know rational numbers

[feral panther]

coffey will pay your medical bill

[simple escarp]

scilent I have 120rs in the account

government isn't paying me

[zealous tundra]

Ok, so do you know that there are sequences of rational numbers that converge to irrational numbers

[lament summit]

Typical real analyst

[simple escarp]

what the fuck does that have to do with anything

[zealous tundra]

Son

[feral panther]

there are no real analysts

[lament summit]

Or whatever

[simple escarp]

you'll find barely any classical analysts

[zealous tundra]

@lament summit answer

[lament summit]

Just don't go beyond rational and rational numbers

[zealous tundra]

Then what is π

[feral panther]

@lament summit I can;t show you a irrational number. its not a physical thing. are you happy?

[lament summit]

That converges to?

[feral panther]

"art"

[lament summit]

It's a object equivalent to harry Potter

[zealous tundra]

Numbers that aren’t rational

Such numbers exist yk

[simple escarp]

guys one at a time

[feral panther]

@zealous tundra have you read the construction of real numbers in rudin?

[lament summit]

Where can you show me pi

[zealous tundra]

I lowkey may have skipped over it

[simple escarp]

ravi I don't believe you are fit to convince the guy yet

[zealous tundra]

Ik that it’s the collection of Cauchy sequences though

[simple escarp]

it's more fuel to fire

[lament summit]

Equivalence classes are built on same logic at the end of day you approach something with no existence

[zealous tundra]

Circle

[lament summit]

Can you show me circle

[zealous tundra]

$\circ$

[feral panther]

they should prove euclidean property somewhere in there, I read it in my first year, I dont remember

[lament summit]

You can never again same thing 😭

[round saffron]

ℝανιølι, Gøδ øƒ Yαøι

[lament summit]

That's a ring

So doctrinated

😅

[feral panther]

that construction doesn't use equivalence classes and I can show you equivalence classes

[lament summit]

Ok

[zealous tundra]

This guy is rejecting anything that requires a bit of abstraction

[feral panther]

yes

[lament summit]

I am willing to see something noticeable

[zealous tundra]

@lament summit you have a very shiny brain, kind sir

[simple escarp]

rabijit are you a constructivist

[zealous tundra]

√2 bro

[lament summit]

Mathematicians are I am not they construct things not observe things

[simple escarp]

yeah you are cooked

[lament summit]

What is that beside an art

[zealous tundra]

A number

You can observe √2 irl

[wide yarrow]

Yes, it’s the completion of a field with absolute value at the end of the day

[lament summit]

That is rational and depends on observation

[feral panther]

@lament summit there is an entire community of mathematecians who also believe real numbers do not exist, you should look into that

[zealous tundra]

No

Do you want a proof that √2 is irrational

[wide yarrow]

That’s how you define p-adics as well it’s the completion of Q with a different absolute value

[simple escarp]

and ask them how rejecting all math with the notion of "R" is not the point at all

[lament summit]

Oh hell nooo if you can ever show any mathematics it's breathe would be out seeing it

There is no unit square in reality hence no root 2 (irrational)

[zealous tundra]

Son

[lament summit]

Root 2 is different based on context

[zealous tundra]

$\square$

[round saffron]

ℝανιølι, Gøδ øƒ Yαøι

[zealous tundra]

Omg a unit square

The diagonal is √2 units long now

Where 1 unit is defined as the side length

[wide yarrow]

X^2-2 is irreducible

[feral panther]

{p| p^2 < 2, for p > 0 and all p< 0} as a subset of rational numbers

[zealous tundra]

Also works

[wide yarrow]

Prove it

[lament summit]

Omg you are right you break Heisenberg uncertainty principle

That's a square

[zealous tundra]

It’s irreducible in ℚ

[lament summit]

😭

[wide yarrow]

Yes but why ?

[zealous tundra]

Yes, I know its position exactly but I have no clue about its momentum, because all I need is its position

[lament summit]

who said it's irreducible it's reducible to infinite series I can show

[zealous tundra]

What is infinite

[lament summit]

The pixels emit light that has momentum so forget it

[lament summit]

A concept nothing more than that

[wide yarrow]

Over Q it’s not

[zealous tundra]

What’s a concept bro

I can’t see it

[lament summit]

That's why we don't bother irrationals and set theories with infinite cardinality

It's rubbish you got the point

[zealous tundra]

Why not though

[lament summit]

We don't we never infact

[feral panther]

its rubbish because you can't see it?

[wide yarrow]

mod 3 it’s irreducible

or it’s 2-eisenstein whatever

[zealous tundra]

Uh

x^2+2 = x^2-1 = (x-1)(x+1)

[lament summit]

It's not rubbish till you name it's rubbish after you work with what you can't see 🫪

[wide yarrow]

It’s -2

[zealous tundra]

Oh nvm

[lament summit]

Closest example is christianity or any religion

Don't turn maths to religion it isn't it never should be

[zealous tundra]

When did we do that

[feral panther]

what is math for you

[feral panther]

axioms are equivalent of god according to him

[zealous tundra]

A girlfriend

[lament summit]

Nah it's for academia and I am against it

[feral panther]

@zealous tundra shut up or read all the 1000 messages

[zealous tundra]

Son we need assumptions everywhere

[lament summit]

There is no disclaimer on any maths text book

[zealous tundra]

What if I close this thread

[lament summit]

No it's all circular logic, just because maths prohibited the empirical

[lament summit]

what was that

[zealous tundra]

Tfym prohibited the empirical

[simple escarp]

this

[lament summit]

Read above you are new here I have given 12 pages

[zealous tundra]

Isn’t probability theory legit based on empirical observations

[feral panther]

dont worry about it. tell me what math is to you and what do you mean when you "do math"

[lament summit]

No we aren't on same page

[zealous tundra]

It’s all about how empirical stuff behaves in the long run iirc

[feral panther]

@simple escarp bro can make ravi go awy until he reads the entire threads

[zealous tundra]

Aw fine

[simple escarp]

@zealous tundra please stop

[zealous tundra]

Bye everyone

[simple escarp]

thank you

continue

[feral panther]

no offense

[lament summit]

What to do now

[feral panther]

@lament summit reply to me not him

[lament summit]

Hi indian

[lament summit]

Ok

[feral panther]

@lament summit

[simple escarp]

sup

[lament summit]

Right so to me maths is Empirical+Axiomatic understanding of things with reasonsing and logic . But since all axioms are indirectly based on some person Empirical observations academia shoundt make it rigid like it does. It should go from empirical to axioms and axioms to Empirical and everyone should realise that at end of day we aren't trying to impose our beliefs on real world and instead we make beliefs based on the real world . Not saying to close Axiomatic standards but one should appreciate analytical solutions formal proofs as well as appreciate numerical solutions and "empirical proofs " proofs that don't require words I can show you one now

[feral panther]

like visual proofs?

[lament summit]

And this is what oldest mathematicians of Egypt India Middle East view maths as also the Europe untill it's agression to close logic russels dream 19th century formalisation etc. that is influenced by church dogma as well if you go to history and thus is biased

[lament summit]

It includes it

[feral panther]

visual proofs are famously misleading

[lament summit]

Now there is an obvious objection that empirical proofs lie sometimes cause you can see a snake as rope or rope as snake but so there is lies at deductions

[feral panther]

you were going to give an example

[lament summit]

that's what the partiality is you are exposed one face of coin

[lament summit]

Ok fine I am gonna show you oldest proof of pythagoras theorem ever

Recorded

[supple loom]

The square one?

[lament summit]

See the problem is Axiomatic framework or pure deduction can't replace empirical

Both must work together

While reaching to conclusions

[wide yarrow]

My alg topology exercices were frustrating at times because our prof used purely visuals to calculate fundamental groups, which is fine but it lacked justification

[supple loom]

Yea similar to that they don't teach al kashi law of cosines

[lament summit]

Caused it's conditioned to you that deductions are flawless , you basically began to believe in authority that their deductions are flawless

If axioms are flawed whole deduction is flawed

Or if deduction has a flaw in a preceding step it's totally flawed

[supple loom]

Euclid's axiom of parallel lines only work on flat planes which is never enough

[feral panther]

my topology exams allowed visuals since giving detailed results would take a long time. I drew the deformation retracts to a question lol

[lament summit]

Yup there is this degree of freedom of axioms too and here you mean the 5th postulate

You need both

[wide yarrow]

Yeah I think it’s fine, but it feels lacklustre

[simple escarp]

Real

[supple loom]

No not the fifth because the fifth postulate is different because it says about something angle based

[wide yarrow]

That’s because lack of rigorous justification bothers me somewhat

[lament summit]

Mathematical community have had serious backlashes in the past decades just because of glorification of deduction

[wide yarrow]

But during an exam you don’t have time so whatever

[lament summit]

It was the postulate regarding point and line

And how many parellel lines can pass through it

[lament summit]

Depends empirical proofs can be very efficient i already showed you an example

The arctangent series

How inefficient it is with calculus of limits

Vs how easy it is with Empirical proof it depends both tools are equally important

But today it has become a fancy to lean mathematics into formal proofs, there is a famous mathematician who faced problem with this that everyone knows

Ramanujan

Euler didn't do formal proofs either

It's later iterated and developed by academia

This inclination is harmful to mathematics and is impacting physics and sciences as well

[simple escarp]

it isn't

[lament summit]

Many researchers are conditioned with beliefs of real numbers and continuity so we try to enforce it in mainstream modern physics as well

[supple loom]

I 100% agree but proofs are needed for them to understand

And show them how it is working

[lament summit]

Both are needed

Empirical proofs can also explain and sometimes better

Like pascals triangle combinatorics or

[supple loom]

But ramanujan did explain some

He didn't had enough time

[lament summit]

Forced to earn a livelihood

By academia

[supple loom]

I think instead of criticising them blindly they should try helping them develop a formula

[supple loom]

It was because of indian British racism

[lament summit]

Yes

[supple loom]

Politics and racism are cancer to science

[lament summit]

Yeah that's the root cause of all this

[supple loom]

Yea because that's people are dumb who can't allow other opinions

[lament summit]

Hmm

[lament summit]

Like in floating point arithmetic commutativity breaks too that too with field of real numbers or rationals but most pure mathematicians would get ridiculed

[supple loom]

Maths do break

[lament summit]

But infact that arithmetic is actually leveraging modern world 🌎

[supple loom]

Even infinity can be find without limits

[lament summit]

Yes

Writing a symbol on paper to summarise a concept doens't means you can make sense out of it in reality or it exist or it is true

[supple loom]

I have a question what will happen if you cry like this on a random discord server

[lament summit]

That's should be a disclaimer in maths take book

[supple loom]

We can't change it

[lament summit]

I am in my weekend

[simple escarp]

gapon are you too a pi disagreer

[supple loom]

I am free minded I consider both

I think what he is saying isn't right the education system is wrong

But the proofs doesn't need to be changed

[lament summit]

Doing calculus without real numbers from life works better try once

I can give sources to learn

[feral panther]

where? give counterexample

[feral panther]

give

[lament summit]

You will be able to solve lorentz attractors with pen and paper if you reject pi

[supple loom]

What is your education man you look smart

[simple escarp]

that's the thing looks can be deceiving

[lament summit]

I qualified common sense

[feral panther]

its not that he is not smart, he just doesn't like the axiomatic structure

[lament summit]

😁

[supple loom]

Agreed

Numbers do break

[lament summit]

1+1= 2.000000001

[simple escarp]

he does not have the ability to hold a proper discussion

I'd call that pretty dumb

[lament summit]

In your casio or android

[supple loom]

It's a discussion channel

[feral panther]

bro what is that

[lament summit]

That you use to check your anylytic solutions ironically

[wide yarrow]

Not liking it is different than saying it’s outright harmful

[feral panther]

thats a skill issue of real world

[lament summit]

Heheh check that

I ain't lying about a single thing I told

Just raw facts

[feral panther]

I know, I have seen it but floating point arithematic is not as same as the binary operations on real numbers

[lament summit]

We can never write real numbers obviously they don't exist

[supple loom]

Cse?

[lament summit]

Humanity never used real numbers

Besides blackboard

[feral panther]

don't exist in real world, be rigorous

[supple loom]

Commerce

[feral panther]

I am now curious @lament summit, what do you think about complex numbers

[lament summit]

Rigor that's a very dangerous word that summons what I am against you mean rigor only by deduction?

[supple loom]

What do you think of Euler constant

[lament summit]

they are pseudoscalars matrices vectors whatever you like

[feral panther]

it was a joke brother

[wide yarrow]

No way

[lament summit]

They have nothing to do with real numbers they are infact more real than real numbers ironically

[wide yarrow]

I guess we are all in the Stone Age then

[lament summit]

🤣

[feral panther]

they are vectors obviously and matrices are also just vectors

[supple loom]

What about for commerce

[feral panther]

this is indeed true

[lament summit]

That's truth if I lied ask if any single person working on Apollo mission solved an integral

[feral panther]

complex numbers are so much nicer compared to real numbers

[wide yarrow]

Okay, bro is def ragebaiting

[lament summit]

Nope 👎

[feral panther]

but they are very much connected, after all it is homeomorphic to R^2

[lament summit]

Fact check

[lament summit]

Formal dogma you are just biased by that

It's unseen fallacy to impose continuity as a belief

[wide yarrow]

Well it’s much more than just homeomorphic to R^2

[versed depot]

It's a homeomorphic field isomorphism.

[supple loom]

What do you think of euler constant

[wide yarrow]

if R^2 has the pushforward field structure then yeah

[versed depot]

R^2 has pointwise multiplication, this makes it a field.

I figure if this thread isn't serious, I can just say wrong things here.

[lament summit]

A short cut way to summarise the exponential series with limits

[feral panther]

i mean all functions on rationals are continuous so it obviously doesn't matter to you

[lament summit]

That is a result of binomial expansion by falling factorials

[simple escarp]

yes

[supple loom]

That's kinda bold and correct

[simple escarp]

because the rationals have measure zero, all functions on rationals are continous almost everywhere

[lament summit]

All functions 😭

[simple escarp]

[lament summit]

that's not even correct by formal mathematics also

[feral panther]

it is, they have discrete topology

[lament summit]

Defining measure is total nosnense I hate measure theory that is too much like too much

Way ridiculous than calculus

[lament summit]

Functions are always reals ?

[feral panther]

what?

[lament summit]

Marriage is also a function without real numbers

[feral panther]

least surprising thin in 2026

[supple loom]

How calculus is ridiculous

[lament summit]

QED

[simple escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/howard-hamlin-howard-better-call-saul-saul-goodman-hamlin-gif-3507439648016783936

[lament summit]

When I say that I meant calculus of limits

[simple escarp]

you complete dumbass

actually no you aren't complete

that goes against whatever you say

[supple loom]

What's ridiculous about it

[lament summit]

You don't know about functions like marriage

[wide yarrow]

the subspace Euclidean topology on Q is not discrete

[feral panther]

coffey please dont insult the man personally

[lament summit]

Limits and nothing else

[supple loom]

Still in what sense

[simple escarp]

he is defacing physics students

[feral panther]

oh fuck

[simple escarp]

YOU are a victim

[lament summit]

Define euclidean topology with dots not points

[versed depot]

Without measure theory, how do you define things like the dirac delta?

[feral panther]

mb topology people, I am slightly stupid

[lament summit]

Be reasonable

[supple loom]

Well he might be a physics student too because he took PCM and probably doing engineering

[wide yarrow]

It’s totally disconnected but not discrete

[lament summit]

That's what you never allowed me to told

[feral panther]

points are just elements of the set

[lament summit]

Funcfact you never need dirac delta function

[feral panther]

its just what they are called, what are you even on about

[simple escarp]

the harm caused by having jee as a way to get into places is absolutely stunning

[lament summit]

If you reject real numbers

[versed depot]

So, I take it you've not taken diffeqs yet.

[feral panther]

you are just judging him atp, you dont even know if he gave jee

[lament summit]

You are imposing your dreams into the most serious concerns of mathematics which we are discussing

[supple loom]

You doing engineering?

[simple escarp]

I have been judging him for a long time now

[feral panther]

exactly stop

[supple loom]

Yea stop

[simple escarp]

I will not

[supple loom]

You are looking stupid bro

[simple escarp]

that's fine

[supple loom]

Manager of the server btw

[lament summit]

Hell no engineers unless in field don't even know that 45 degree angle never gives maximum range of projectile ground

[lament summit]

That's what believers do

[supple loom]

Huh it doesn't?

[feral panther]

also goes for you rabijit, you have been judging and insulting everyone

[feral panther]

air resistence is a bitch

[supple loom]

Shit

[lament summit]

My recent work gives 37 degrees

U need to solve 4 ODEs

U can check the media files

[supple loom]

What education you have fr

[lament summit]

And solving them with calculus of limits will take guts out of you for real

[supple loom]

π=3

Lol

[simple escarp]

not there

[wide yarrow]

So you are against real numbers but solve ODEs ?

[simple escarp]

crank on top of being whatever

[wide yarrow]

How does that work ?

[lament summit]

Yup I can solve them if I don't follow nonsense

[supple loom]

Ok I feel dumb idk ODEs

[lament summit]

Lol accepted 😂

[lament summit]

It's ok it's just jargons maths is simpler actually

[supple loom]

Avg class 8th approximation

[lament summit]

ODE means ordinary differential equations

[lament summit]

6 class student has more logic than 12th

[simple escarp]

calling all abstraction jargon is something that'll last you maybe another year at max

[wide yarrow]

So let me get this straight, you say real numbers don’t exist and humanity never use them and you solve differential equations which is analysis ?

[supple loom]

π=22/7

[lament summit]

Your real analysis will last till you complete graduation when you will starve for food you will throw it in dustbin

[simple escarp]

the guy has no clue about what he tries to say, what do ya expect

[supple loom]

Don't be rude bro

[simple escarp]

ill probably starve that parts right

[wide yarrow]

It’s like saying cars don’t exists then driving a truck

[simple escarp]

but i dont do this for money

[lament summit]

Check last 1000 messages I haven't been rude compared to that

[lament summit]

Nope you didn't fact checked coming with beliefs

Check sputnik crisis apollo education reforms

How it was tackeled

[wide yarrow]

You must be good at Fortnite

Because you crank

[lament summit]

I don't play games unfortunately I embrace reality and touch grass

Sometimes imitation game is valid

[supple loom]

Yea I don't understand shit of ODEs I struggle at calculus II

[lament summit]

Never designed to make you understand

[wide yarrow]

the bottom line is: they say they are against real number while doing stuff that require analysis

[lament summit]

But fine you can change the system only by rising in the system

[wide yarrow]

They are just being a contrarian

[lament summit]

Nope we don't need real numbers for analysis

[supple loom]

What is real analysis and complex analysis?

[lament summit]

What you are even talking it's not maths anymore

[wide yarrow]

Talk about it in another channel, im not sure this is the right one

[supple loom]

I will learn that wait

[lament summit]

The equations ☝️

[supple loom]

Wait I need sequences for that oh fuck

[lament summit]

Hahahaha

[lament summit]

Nope this is the right channel read the title

[wide yarrow]

Complex analysis requires some baggage

[supple loom]

Oh so it contains squeeze theorem

[wide yarrow]

i guess all the progress modern physics has done is done without real numbers

[supple loom]

Sequence

[supple loom]

They use imaginary more than constants

[wide yarrow]

Anyways, I am done with this channel

Have fun being a contrarian

[supple loom]

That's a fact you can't deny

[wide yarrow]

Well, yeah complex numbers and complex analysis are used very frequently in physics

[supple loom]

That's his whole point bro

[wide yarrow]

How do you think complex numbers are defined ? Using real numbers

[lament summit]

Are done with vectors rotors matrices bivectors pseudoscalars

[versed depot]

$\mathbb{Q}(i)$

[round saffron]

Pear Category Theorem

[wide yarrow]

i guess

[supple loom]

It's defined by that but it's totally different

[elder nest]

I support this law in China that people with no official formation talking about certain topics on social media go to jail for 2 years. I won't discuss if 2 years is too much, if going to jail is too much, but tbh what I can be sure of is that going against the attitude of trying to have an opinion before knowing the topic is a nice fight to fight

[supple loom]

I am not even saying anything I am just learning lol

[wide yarrow]

$j:=e^{\frac{2i \pi}{3}$ is used a lot in electrical engineering

[round saffron]

Rotator
Compile Error! Click the reaction for more information.
(You may edit your message to recompile.)

[lament summit]

That's a forceful definition

It doesn't explains complex numbers itself

[supple loom]

Yes

[simple escarp]

[lament summit]

Let me show what is a imaginary number or complex number

[elder nest]

So I think that you guys at school shouldn't be allowed to participate in any math debate that requires advanced knowledge, and basically to doubt the foundations of math requires to have certain knowledge. And if I was the owner here, you wouldn't be allowed to discuss this topic because what you are doing is basically to produce a random conspiracy theory against math and the academia because you can't wait for a few years to learn math

[wide yarrow]

$\bQ[X]/(1+X^{2})$

[round saffron]

Rotator

[supple loom]

I am not that young

[lament summit]

Indorctinated perfectly by superstitious popes of church running academia of 19th-20th century

[elder nest]

For me this debate by itself is pure disrespect towards graduates, and I don't understand why it's still allowed to discuss this

[lament summit]

That's what comes out of your mind to throw rationale to throw logic and common sense

[wide yarrow]

Sure, $i:=X+(1+X^{2}) \in \bQ[X]/(1+X^{2})$

[lament summit]

What you just said is pure disrespect to euler newton ramanujan euclid

[supple loom]

Well but it isn't totally nonsense

[lament summit]

They were never part of it don't disrespect the way they do maths

[elder nest]

You will never be one of them

[lament summit]

No one needs to be

[supple loom]

Changing perspective doesn't mean disrespect sir

[simple escarp]

no wonder you can't do this shit in the bigger math server anymore

[lament summit]

Absolutely

[simple escarp]

they tend to allow less BS (at times)

[lament summit]

They are so rigid and brainwashed by academia

[round saffron]

Rotator

[lament summit]

Hahaa definitely not with brainwashed people

[supple loom]

I like how I can say shit to staff server and not get banned here and they also talk back

[elder nest]

I'm blocking them

[lament summit]

But you are judgemental coffee

[simple escarp]

you too

[supple loom]

I like the moderation this allows freedom of speech I can cuss yk

[wide yarrow]

Nero, did they do anything to you ? I mean they are a bit cranky but ultimately harmless

[lament summit]

Yes that's what transparency and flexibility and growth of discussion works

[supple loom]

This is fucking good

[lament summit]

These guys are just slaves of academia

[simple escarp]

harmful to the reputation of the group(s) they belong to

[elder nest]

My blocking policy:

1. Pretending to have knowledge about something and not having it while being disrespectful towards somebody that has knowledge => Block
2. Brainrot => Block
3. Ragebaiting in intellectual environments => Block
4. Having an unacceptable extremist ideology and finding nothing wrong about it => Block
5. Embracing conspiracy theories and being unable to sort things out in a different way => Block

Points 1 and 5

[supple loom]

Sybau bro respectively

[lament summit]

You don't seem to follow yourself you follow dogmas

[versed depot]

I've done all of these.

[elder nest]

People thought this is funny, but this is based on experience and I've found a ton of users like that. And no, they didn't harm me personally in any way, my problem is with the attitudes they have

[wide yarrow]

I guess

[lament summit]

Reflect your self

Don't blame or look the mirror

[wide yarrow]

Hey, no need to be agressive

[lament summit]

I was being polite seems beginning

Eyes are there to watch

[versed depot]

• Spretending to have knowledge about something and not having it while being disrespectful towards somebody that has knowledge
• Ybrainrot
• Bragebaiting in intellectual environments
• Ahaving an unacceptable extremist ideology and finding nothing wrong about it
• Uembracing conspiracy theories and being unable to sort things out in a different way

[wide yarrow]

He can block them if he wishes, that’s his decision

[supple loom]

"respectively" and honestly that's corny

[simple escarp]

lmao

[wide yarrow]

« Respectively » doesn’t make it less agressive

[versed depot]

Did you mean "respectfully"?

[simple escarp]

that's not how that's used i think

[supple loom]

Yea sorry mb

[lament summit]

See i won't even going to epistemology here you are at foundations at pillars your fallacy is that you are judging with conclusions

[versed depot]

Respectively makes it sound like you were going point-by-point and saying "sybau bro" to each one, which is the opposite of respectful.

[wide yarrow]

Respectfully, i don’t respect you

[lament summit]

Ugh fine guys settle yourself i will be back

[supple loom]

I almost read that as epstienmolgy

[lament summit]

It's dinner time again 🍽️

[supple loom]

Mb

[wide yarrow]

Bon appétit

[lament summit]

See no brainrots

Please 🙏

Continue normal talks

Without inducing cortisols

[supple loom]

Here you see a sigma

[lament summit]

A healthy discussion is destroyed but don't worry we can restart

[versed depot]

@elder nest This was clever, come on.

[elder nest]

Actually it's brilliant

[lament summit]

Yeah see ya at June 8

[elder nest]

You gave me the idea of trying to write a whole new policy enforcing those first letters

[supple loom]

Bragebaiting

[lament summit]

✌️

[versed depot]

This was not a healthy discussion.

[wide yarrow]

i don’t think that was his point

[supple loom]

Idk I have low comprehension skills then

[wide yarrow]

He explicitly said that reals are useless to humanity

[supple loom]

In a sense yes if you look closely

[cyan wigeon]

The closer I see, the Realer it gets

[simple escarp]

[supple loom]

Idk man what he mean I ragequit

[wide yarrow]

Well for a toddler ig

[supple loom]

I am probably the first one

[wide yarrow]

but for humanity as a whole

[fervent forge]

1664 messages, what the heck did I just read...

[supple loom]

Unhealthy discussion

[supple loom]

What do you expect from a roblox pfp

[cyan wigeon]

This whole chat should be uploaded on Wattpad

[supple loom]

Avg iq here was 150 when I didn't joined