#can i solve this without using log

176 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

minor tartan
honest condor
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Also, this is, like, super easy using logarithms, but the reason for that is something I suspect you haven't noticed yet anyway.

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You also technically can't solve this without using logarithms, but I suspect what you mean to say is without getting an irrational logarithm as an intermediate.

minor tartan
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We havent learned logs yet im second year highschool i can solve it using logarithms since i know it but im required not to

honest condor
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I mean, technically anytime you say a^x = a^y -> x = y you're using logarithms.

minor tartan
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Wait lemme send a pic on how i did it but idk if its true for every number

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I used logarithms and it got me the same answer

honest condor
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I mean. That's the right answer, and it starts with the right method, but 2^n/2^m is a nonsensical step.

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What you need to do is get 2^kn = 2^lm, so that you can then take log_2 on both sides (even though your teacher won't tell you that's what you're doing) to get kn = lm.

minor tartan
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Yea so basically i used log right

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And i got 4

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So i was looking at the question and i was like how am i supposed to get 4

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So i did 4/1 and tried it with a different question and it also worked

honest condor
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Okay, but the problem is that the math you're doing is nonsensical.

minor tartan
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I can do log easily but idk how else am i supposed to solve it

honest condor
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I'm trying to explain it, if you'd pay attention.

minor tartan
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Oh so u mean kn=lm?

honest condor
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Dude.

urban shard
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u can ?

honest condor
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I am investing time and effort to type out detailed, nuanced advice. I'd appreciate it if you read it all instead of skimming it and replying only to one or two bits in a paragraph.

urban shard
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u can just

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make simulateneous equations

honest condor
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I'm already helping.

urban shard
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yea but he asked for without logs

honest condor
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Which is literally impossible.

minor tartan
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Yea man im not used to seeing math written like this so it takes time for me to read it and understand

urban shard
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wait ye mb i had a howler

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carry on

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my sincerest apologies

honest condor
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I know what they meant and I'm trying to help them with that, but "without logs" at all is impossible.

minor tartan
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Wait

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So like that in the left i cant use

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Cuz we havent learned it yet

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So im trying to figure out if the solution in the right is okay cuz i dont have any theory about it i just guessed

urban shard
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this is just wrong

minor tartan
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I tried with other numbers and it worked

honest condor
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Okay, seriously?

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This is three helpers now.

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This is too many helpers.

minor tartan
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Nah bro i need as many as possible im struggling 😭😭

honest condor
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I am fully confident in my ability to explain it in time, with your full attention, which I can't do with all these other helpers crashing about the place.

urban shard
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i mean this works tbh

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the answer is 4

minor tartan
# urban shard

Yea sure im just trynna know if this is right or not cuz some other people i asked said yes and you 2 are saying no now im confused

honest condor
minor tartan
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Why

honest condor
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Can you prove that a^x/a^y = b^n/b^m implies x/y = n/m?

urban shard
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hey rexo

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u were close

minor tartan
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Yea i cant i just tried with some other numbers and it worked so im thinking im right

urban shard
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it shouldve been

honest condor
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GUYS.

urban shard
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n-m 3

honest condor
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I CAN EXPLAIN IT.

urban shard
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this works without using logs no?

honest condor
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THIS ISN'T HELPING. YOU'RE ALL JUST WASTING TIME AND BREAKING OP'S CONCENTRATION ASKING ABOUT THE QUESTION.

urban shard
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idk i may be buggin

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womp womp

minor tartan
urban shard
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idek tbh

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i think im buggin

honest condor
minor tartan
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It doesnt work with multiplication cuz i tried

honest condor
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NO IT ISN'T.

urban shard
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the answer is 4

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frr

honest condor
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FFS

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This cannot possibly be helping you, OP.

minor tartan
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@honest condor the reason i think my “theory” works its because in my mind the logs cancel and were left with dividing exponents or longs

honest condor
urban shard
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yeah bro if you log/log just cancel the log to make 1

minor tartan
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So like if i have log2/log2 it isnt equal to 1?

honest condor
minor tartan
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Im just saying

urban shard
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why are u even trying to do this without logs

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just pick up ur calculator

honest condor
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I. Can. Explain it.

urban shard
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chop chop then

rocky zodiac
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I asked chatgpt and he said the answer is , n = 4, m = 1

honest condor
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GO AWAY NEW GUY

minor tartan
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Bro yall still havent realised that i cant use logs im second year highschool we havent learned it yet

honest condor
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CHATGPT IS NOT A CALCULATOR.

urban shard
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oh

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this is an assignment question?

rocky zodiac
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Loggy(x)

honest condor
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I give up. @minor tartan When you want a real explanation and you've kicked out the clowns, let me know.

rocky zodiac
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@honest condor i g ot a question about this which may help OP

urban shard
minor tartan
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Nah this getting kuta hand

rocky zodiac
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Loggy(x) = Baa baa black sheep

honest condor
urban shard
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he is not a captain

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i think that is only in the army

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or pirate ship

rocky zodiac
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pirate ship

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pirates are extinct

urban shard
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they are in somalia

rocky zodiac
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do they have pirate ships with skulls?

urban shard
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No

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are you a fool?

rocky zodiac
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they arent pirates then

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they are robbas

honest condor
urban shard
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um u brought up captains first

minor tartan
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Nah its all good they just trynna help no thank you tho

rocky zodiac
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OH LOL this is a help channel, mb mb all

urban shard
rocky zodiac
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I think this question is just by inspection

urban shard
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Mb all- danger averted

rocky zodiac
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You just see that 2^n = 16 is obvious lmao

honest condor
urban shard
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refer to where i talked about different branches?

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you insolent fool

minor tartan
honest condor
urban shard
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my method works because they are both powers of primes

minor tartan
urban shard
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i think u can only do this question without logs due to primes

honest condor
honest condor
rocky zodiac
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The question contains the number 2

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That is true

minor tartan
honest condor
minor tartan
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Ill ping you late how bout that im currently watching a video on logs

honest condor
minor tartan
honest condor
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But what I said was that it was technically impossible to do without logarithms at all.

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But you don't need to know, like, the properties of logarithms.

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There is literally one step that is a logarithm, and the reason you think it's "without logarithms" is because that one step isn't called a logarithm.

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By your teacher.

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But that's still what the step is.

minor tartan
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Oh so like it is a logarithm but we dont write it?

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Like ye dont use logx(y)

honest condor
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Yes.

minor tartan
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Ok so what do i do

honest condor
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Just to refresh our memories about what the problem actually is:

IMG_2374.jpg
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So. We know that 81 = 3^4, right?

minor tartan
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Yes

honest condor
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Which means that 2^n = 81 = 3^4, right?

minor tartan
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Yes

honest condor
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And we know that 2^m = 3, right?

minor tartan
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Ye

honest condor
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Therefore, by substitution, we know that 2^n = (2^m)^4.

minor tartan
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Ohhhhh

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Yeaaa

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Omg im just realising how stupid i am

honest condor
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You're not stupid.

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If you're judging that based on how long it took you to get it, remember how long we were dealing with nonsense.

minor tartan
minor tartan
honest condor
# minor tartan

Right, and the 2^n = 2^4m n = 4mstep is the secret hidden logarithm that it's impossible to solve the problem without.

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That step is just taking log_2 on both sides.

minor tartan
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The thing is i was so focused on using logs i got tunnel vision

honest condor
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You are still technically using logarithms, but the goal is to hide it by getting the same base on both sides.

minor tartan
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Yea i get it now thank you

honest condor
sand trout
# minor tartan

The solution is 4. But you break math doing what you did. 2^n/2^m is simply 2^n-m but we can solve the equation taking the log where we get log2(81)/log2(3) where we can make log2(81 become 4log2(3) which will give us 4 since 4log2(3)/log2(3) is simply 4
if we cant solve it with a log. We can also make a substitution since we are given 2^n=81 and 2^m=3 since we see 81 and 3 that is important. we make 81=3^4 where we now end up getting the substitution 2^n=(3)^4 where we get 3=2^m. so we get 2^n=2^4m since we have the same bases we can see that we get n=4m where we divide by m we get n/m=4

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nevermind. someone already helped

minor tartan
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Yea but thanks anyways

honest condor
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Nothing, anymore, because I already helped them.

rocky zodiac
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But

minor tartan
honest condor
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+close