its like when people act like being trans is political 
#🌈lgbtq
charred needle
charred needle
wow that sucks i thought itd be some big homophobic country overseeing it but its an american indie team that made it
im really sorry fam
torn willow
Yeah and the company is mostly so good about being inclusive... Like there are no gender options and you can make your character basically as gendered or genderless as you want, so I felt really safe playing it.
And now my feelings are definitely mixed
charred needle
i feel you
cosmic basin
That's such a weird contradiction though
torn willow
That's such a weird contradiction though
I know right, that's why it caught me so off-guard
cosmic basin
I think it's something you could complain about
torn willow
Yeah I'm considering that. But I'll do it after I've calmed down a bit so I don't make myself feel worse by accident
cosmic basin
Of course, take your time first ❤️
charred needle
censorship sucks ass fr
torn willow
Yeah. But who knows, maybe they'll fix it. Or it's even in the process of being fixed. Regardless, I'll def write to the company about it.
cosmic basin
Let us know how that goes
If they don't reply or don't fix it, we could write more complaints
torn willow
I'll keep you posted!
charred needle
@astral mural here
bitter viper
:(
charred needle
lauren come be gay with me pls
astral mural
Hiii
astral mural
I’m sorry bb...
brazen willow
That momment when a Christian lectures you on how you’re a sinner 
Yes btw that did just happen to me because I’m gay or whatever it was dumb
wicked jungle
kinda ngl
charred needle
hypocritical homophobic christians are sussy
blissful granite
Very sus. 
iron escarp
hypocritical homophobic christians, the easiest group of people to offend by simply existing outside of their cishet, able-bodied, neutotypical lens
i mean you could even simply not be a "traditional christian" and you would already make those folks rage
it's just sad that a religion that's so well-spread out really easily allows for beliefs such as this, like of course there are perfectly nice christian folk but just enough/too much of them are just horridly awful on too many levels
wicked jungle
i wonder how open-minded christians react to those who abuse their religion to undermine other people's identities
religion is wonderful
vague nymph
🤔
wicked jungle
it can truly help somebody - it truly gives hope and meaning
iron escarp
i mean most of the people that react to people abusing their religion that i watch are ex-mormons or generally atheists as a whole, so i wouldnt know
wicked jungle
but there are these "taking" the religion and kinda "perverting it" into its worst simply to make those "christians" 's views valid in a really weird way
iron escarp
religion can be wonderful, i mean i engage with learning abt ancient religions so i know that they can be beautiful in the context we have of the time so i would know abt that, as well as native religions being kept alive is wonderful to me
wicked jungle
yeah i only know of one of my friends who is christian because the religion gives her a sense of belonging and being welcomed by a father-like deity
she is absolutely amazing
and she has thrown out multiple of those "religion abusers" out of her church 😂
iron escarp
sometimes, we can have a little faith in some of humanity
static prairie
open minded christian here, I just... Keep supporting lgbtq and whenever any christian questions that I try to defend, educate and basically be a good ally
iron escarp
i mean suprisingly, modern practicioners of some of these ancient religions can be very r@cist and stuff too and it sucks, like did you learn nothing of the history of those times? its more racially and gender diverse than those practicioners wish to see
like you cant be invested in roman/greek mythology and then be homophobic </3
or alternatively norse/celtic pagan practicioner and then be r@cist and s3xist
wicked jungle
honestly it was just the norm, they were close-minded because of fear and supersticions and more of those
like look at aristotle, plato and archimedes - as forward their way of thinking was, they still discriminated against certain people and thought of slaves as non-human
but they still helped us get where we are at nowadays
dark patio
There are going to be terrible people in every religion. There are going to be terrible people in any collective, unfortunately. The people of those religions are often just as frustrated with those people as you are.
iron escarp
or alternatively norse/celtic pagan practicioner and then be r@cist and s3xist
like considering how far norse trade routes and influence spread it would not be too odd to say that they met people of color and perhaps accepted them into their practices or teaching them
wicked jungle
the world changes - and hopefully we can help for it to be a positive changes mostly
static prairie
There are going to be terrible people in every religion. There are going to be t...
Yeah 😔
iron escarp
honestly it was just the norm, they were close-minded because of fear and supers...
i mean i won't deny that there was discrimination, i just mean that it's less than i've seen some "norse/celtic/whatever practitioner" folk that are just white suprem@cists n all
kind dagger
the world changes - and hopefully we can help for it to be a *positive* changes ...
Yes, positive change is always welcome 🙂
dark patio
Just try to be mindful that there are folks here who are from a wide variety of places and don't get into wide, generalizing statements about whole groups. I'm not saying you are doing that, and I'm not telling you you can't keep this conversation going, I'm just asking to be mindful as you do.
wicked jungle
There are going to be terrible people in every religion. There are going to be t...
that is true, i guess christianity is the most in these talks since there are so many loud christians who use their religion simply to discriminate 😔 i really feel sad that those people zero-in on those two little passages in the bible instead of looking at the whole wonders of their holy script and all the good that does come from their religion 😔
every religion is amazing and healing in their own way, i wish they would get recognized mostly for that aswell Elsa 
iron escarp
like considering how far norse trade routes and influence spread it would not be...
i mean to me, keeping the ancient practices of long gone ancestors alive while adepting it to our current society is what reconstructionism is all about, plus some things are even supported by archeological finds to an extent
wicked jungle
i'm really thankful aswell that we live in an age of information where we can find our own most comforting belief - for some it's none, for some it's their families', some find their own way through life and it's beautiful
dark patio
I'm a lapsed celtic pagan, and I know there are some vile people who gravitate to that, there are vile people who gravitate to almost every religion and it says more about the people than it does about the religion.
wicked jungle
and appreciation and love goes out to all those religious people who find it in themselves to be allies aswell
iron escarp
I'm a ~~lapsed~~ celtic pagan, and I know there are some vile people who gravita...
it does, i just feel like the prevolence of christians that are vile or do vile things are just more spoken about than the ones that are and do good, especially in terms of controversial topics and like political opinions shared by parties that claim to be traditionally christian
like rightwing political parties tend to set themselves up as "christian" parties rather often, and sometimes even use their religious belief to rally against freedoms and rights of marginalised groups
or at least thats how it is here in the netherlands
dark patio
Sometimes it's the small group of awful people who are the loudest. And it really sucks to deal with them. My uncle is an evangelical christian and I love him, I really do, but because of that, I know he'll never be a safe person for me to be myself around.
And that really hurts. It's not just him, it's a whole section of my family who have unfortunately fallen into those traps, and while I'm lucky that my other uncle and his girlfriend have been very kind to me about being gay, they don't know I'm trans and probably will never know. I've never come out to my other uncle or any of my cousins on that side because they're the most religious, most politically charged section of my family.
wicked jungle
i wonder since most know about the erasure of folklore through the aggressive christianization back in the day - what about asian folklore? how much did their now main religions eat up - or even anything at all?
i always have to think back at my man Xochipilli ('Flower Prince') and how he got wronged so badly :c
a true ally in the deities - advertised as the nation's weakness :c
iron escarp
And that really hurts. It's not just him, it's a whole section of my family who ...
awh i know it sucks, my family have made it clear that they are unsupportive of trans folks as well, i know how much it hurts when the people that you were likely told would love you no matter what, really only want you to live to what they believe is acceptable 💔
dark patio
only tangentially related to what you just said, Marmy, but my boyfriend is Taiwanese and his mother was watching The Untamed and mentioned that she might read the book it's based on. The book is extremely gay and pretty nsfw in parts so he warned his mother away by just saying it was gay. She responded that she didn't know they even had gay people back them (it's a historical fantasy).
It's unfortunate, but that reaction remains pretty hilarious to me. The sheer obliviousness there
iron escarp
i mean that goes for disabled folk as well like people will always be baffled when they find out that disabled/neurodivergent ppl existed since humanity started
dark patio
Like it's some of her own history that she acts very proud of at times and she didn't even know
wicked jungle
turns on gramps filter "well back in my day we didnt have those fits glasses hömesecksuals"
wasnt there an actual paper on how psychiatry patients with anxiety have similar levels to regular students nowadays? might've also been clickbait tho idk
iron escarp
like i believe its a really fun fact that changelings were most likely ancient explanations for neurodivergent children(even though the consequenses of them thinking their child has been replaced were ahem not good)
wicked jungle
goodness there are so many different named kinds of changelings
never added those two together tho, mind blown
iron escarp
i mean there's a reason why terms that describe people as reincarnated aliens/angels/other nonhumans exist and are still being used by some select ppl
iron escarp
goodness there are so many different named kinds of changelings
i mean its not neccesarily 100% confirmed to my knowledge but i believe its highly likely that it's connected to neurodivergency or even birth defects
because yknow "good nutrition" in ye olde wasnt exactly easy
wicked jungle
whatcha mean, a bit of slob on monday and some defintively not 50/50 poisonous berries for desert sound nutritional af 👼
definitively better than ramen and gay boba tea 😂
dark patio
😭 i miss boba
wicked jungle
tapioka or popping more your taste?
dark patio
we had a boba place in town where me and all my friends used to go hang out after school when we were in high school, but it closed down a few years back.
it was basically the queer kid hang for a few years. they had board games and comfy couches and we'd buy tea and sit there and chill at the end of the day
iron escarp
boba tea my beloved, we have a boba joint near my school but i just dont have the food budget to go </3
wicked jungle
ahh i miss my uni's boba place, the owner loved us so much she always gave me extra boba and some mochi 🥺
wicked jungle
do it
iron escarp
DEW IT
wicked jungle
would mountain dew boba be yuck or y? 🤔
it would surely make me radioactive super.... person?
supple brook
I will finally be able to get something from my favorite boba store again in like a week 😭 comebuy my beloved
fading cedar
Hello party people
pure oxide
hi-lo friend!
rose ice
Hello!
fading cedar
Hows everyone? 😄
rose ice
Wishing for work to be over haha, can't wear my binder to work yet unfortunately
fading cedar
aww hang in there! how much is left?
rose ice
Another 3 hours D: then I have class for 2 and then walking the dogs for another hour
rose ice
Yes I have! I wore it saturday for like 3 hours while just gaming
Probably long for a first time but I didnt feel uncomfortable or unable to breathe at all
radiant tundra
I kind of want to get a binder but I worry that boobs are too big for one. Plus I already dislike sports bras
fading cedar
oh thats awesome digi! do you have to get used to wearing it before wearing it for a longer time?
rose ice
Yeah you do, otherwise you might get caught with it on in a place you cant take it off when you're really uncomfortable
rose ice
I kind of want to get a binder but I worry that boobs are too big for one. Plus ...
I thought so too but they have lots of sizes for different people!!
dark patio
I kind of want to get a binder but I worry that boobs are too big for one. Plus ...
I've got a pretty big chest and I can wear a binder mostly comfortably. though I tend towards sports bras myself, so we have some different preferences there.
radiant tundra
I thought so too but they have lots of sizes for different people!!
Can I ask what brand you got? I might look into it.
rose ice
Gc2b!
simple yoke
list of Money Purchases in my immediate future:
- new car (old one is a fuckin road hazard
- new laptop (starting to Have Problems)
- resume birth control bc fuck periods
- new binders bc my old ones are worn out af
rose ice
Of course!
ancient vapor
I kind of want to get a binder but I worry that boobs are too big for one. Plus ...
Ive got a D sized chest and while you chest may not look as plank flat as people with smaller chests, gc2bs got binders for pretty much everyone and they work just fine. Just make sure your nips arent facing downward lmao
radiant tundra
Ive got a D sized chest and while you chest may not look as plank flat as people...
Thank you!!!
lapis furnace
When your cishet white father says the n word and f word and tries to explain why the words arent bad and he can use them, people are just offended
And you're a demiboy who does in fact like boys. And cant stand that word.
blissful granite
ask him why he's offended that he can't use them. make reference to snowflakes.
blissful granite
the real problem that he needs to be aware of is that he thinks he's entitled to hate
charred needle
Just watched the Mitchells Vs the machines and I absolutely loved it but at the same time ||I'm real dissapointed by the gay stuff :(||
Btw why is there a constant 15 sec cool down here 
dark patio
That is to try to discourage people from using this as a “gay general”
faint jacinth
Sandra! that's what i was talking about the other day! is it the fact that ||it isnt never explicity said she was lgtb?||
charred needle
yeah
but i mean im not too upset, ||i can see it from the standpoint that the movie was saying LGBTQIA+ people just exist ya know and it isnt really a movie that needed a love story||
at least its not queerbaiting lol, im very tired of that in stuff
faint jacinth
yeppp i ||almost had a fight with a cishet friend that said it was maybe "her favourite part" i had to tell her that, me being from the lgtb, it wasn't good at all because she was pointing me towards "the pins" .... ||
faint jacinth
but i mean im not too upset, ||i can see it from the standpoint that the movie w...
i think i got more upset because ||when my friend told me about it, she told me it was one of her favourite parts and i thought it was more than pins and passing sentences||
charred needle
i hope ||maybe we can get a sequel or a special where we can see jade being her girlfriend 
||
faint jacinth
hopefully!
charred needle
aw man
that movie was just so amazing i just finished gushing about it to my best friend for half an hour
there were also a lot of rainbows in it so i approve
gray cosmos
wtf I thought I was your best friend 
charred needle
slama wtf since when are you here 
i can have multiple best friends and also ashlyn is very cool beans so youll have to share the spot 
wintry monolith
I really kinda want to get one of the crop/short binders (both of mine are long tank style) for the aesthetic but I'm very leery of rib squish feeling bc I'm prone to that already even from things like partner's arm lax over my ribs.
pure oxide
Sensory issues are the damn worst, especially when the thing you'd be experiencing them from is meant to help you feel better.
wintry monolith
Ehh, less sensory more actual squish.
pure oxide
I don't know how expensive binders are or I'd say just try it out. It's possible if it doesn't work for you, you could find someone to sell it on to?
wintry monolith
Long binder feels like a good hug
wintry monolith
Good binders are not cheap. 😅
Not diagnosed but it's looking pretty likely that I have EDS or something similar. I'm both hyperflexible in some places and painfully crunchy in my joints.
If I go for a cropped binder it might be worth sizing up one. Hmm.
The hard 8 hour limit for binders sucks. It's for safety and is absolutely something that should be followed, but I won't be able to wear one once WFH ends since work itself is 8 hours, plus lunch and transit time.
As a follow up, if a binder is very cheap, and has bra like clasps, do not buy it. Those can literally crush your ribs.
Always measure multiple times and if you're not sure on sizing, order up a size or contact the site support for help.
charred needle
yes, binder safety is very important!!!
dark patio
Always listen to your body when you wear a binder! If you’re starting to feel uncomfortable but you’re not to the 8 hours yet, don’t wait!
iron escarp
i mean i have a binder thats a little less "effective" myself because i have asthma so i already have trouble breathing without an incredibly tight binder on
i would also always suggest to get custom sizing on a binder if you can afford it as it is much safer than having to choose between a binder thats too lose in some places and too tight in others
like i have pretty broad shoulders and hips(unfortunately) so i ordered like 2 binders from different sizes where i couldnt even get one of them on properly while the other one just felt worse than wearing a sports bra ugh
wintry monolith
@iron escarp what brand did you go for for custom?
Also asthmatic commiserating high five
iron escarp
i went with a dutch smaller buisness because gc2b and other popular brands are all non-european to my knowledge, which means super high shipping costs, measurements in a system i dont understand n all
wintry monolith
Ahh, I see
My chest tends to fluctuate with weight a lot so it's one of those irritating things to deal with finding sizes. 😅
I'll have to look into custom
Wish we could toggle the darned things off and on. Hot swappable bits would be amazing.😁
iron escarp
My chest tends to fluctuate with weight a lot so it's one of those irritating th...
oh yeah absolutely it sucks
iron escarp
I'll have to look into custom
custom chest: the true nonbinary agenda
wintry monolith
Yesssss
iron escarp
like you wake up and toggle whether you want a flat chest or not
twilit lake
That would end up looking like willy wonka's elevator with toggle switches ha
wintry monolith
perfect
twilit lake
I recall mass effect, and having created a character with a face which may or may not have been crafted with 90% nose
Now I'm trying to figure out whichever smaller dutch business was mentioned, and if I've heard of them
wintry monolith
Lol
iron escarp
Now I'm trying to figure out whichever smaller dutch business was mentioned, and...
um i'll look it up for you holdon
i believe it was one of the binders from trans-missie
it was a full size binder like full top piece
thorn sail
he wanted to say hi looooool
wicked jungle
i mean you get warned here for using zalgo, makes sense to forego the face 😂
wicked jungle
he wanted to say hi looooool
exactly 😂 the simplest hello is the \ from a pup
thorn sail
Riley is now our mascot loool
wicked jungle
Riley = Puppy?
thorn sail
Yup!
wicked jungle
aww, yes riley is
waxen hare
ooohhh hes so precious!!! 🥺 💖 please give him pats from me
twilit lake
um i'll look it up for you holdon
i believe it was one of the binders from trans...
Alas no I haven't heard of em
Though the name amuses me greatly
pure oxide
Is that Maya? Maya the Samoyed? She's the love of my life, she's so good. 😛
wicked jungle
this chat devolved into love for our mascot 😂
thorn sail
I'll post full Riely pics in pets channel haha'
wicked jungle
it all deranged with a simple \ 😂
wicked jungle
PFFFF
waxen hare
yes!! and sometimes they have little flag capes!! 😭 💖
dark patio
I love little puppers at pride!!!
pure oxide
I would get an all white dog just to dye them rainbow colors all the time
(obviously with dog-safe dyes!)
but pride doggos are best doggos
wicked jungle
i love that little pupper but oh my goodness they look so funny 😂
pure oxide
pomeranians are just... breathing teddy bears
wicked jungle
i already am laughing but this isnt doing good to my laugh-muscles 😂 lords have mercy
dark patio
I wanna get a doggo, and I think it would be a lot easier for me to go to events like pride if I could have a big doggo to bring with me
I am here for tutu pride pup
thorn sail
needa buy mine an ace bandana loool
dark patio
Aw that’s so cute
wicked jungle
hey why did that get the "holdup" rafabae 😂
pure oxide
I want a great Dane. that's my goal dog. and if you think I wouldn't put it in rainbow tutus and socks for pride, you are SADLY mistaken
wicked jungle
sausages of pride
waxen hare
daschunds are so cute!!! 🥺
dark patio
I don’t like little dogs for myself, but I still think they’re cute
What a dapper pup
pure oxide
I hate dachshunds but... my mom loves them and we had two growing up and they were monsters
dark patio
This is reminding me, I have a pride band for my Apple Watch, so I get to have a pride thing every day, but I lost my watch a couple months ago 😭
I don’t have my rainbow now
pure oxide
they are stubborn and hateful and they would constantly eat the crotches out of our underwear and pants and cost me a lot of money. never again. 😛
pure oxide
This is reminding me, I have a pride band for my Apple Watch, so I get to have a...
oh no. 😦
dark patio
they are stubborn and hateful and they would constantly eat the crotches out of ...
Oh nasty little gremlins
waxen hare
i wonder if theres any pride cats 
pure oxide
Also, my dog is not going to conform to gender roles
wicked jungle
in germany we call them "Fuß-Hupe" sorry not sorry if you understand Shlee
dark patio
My boyfriend is looking at getting rabbits soon for both the nerdiest and the most gay reason
pure oxide
If I get a boy, he will have purple and pink collars and leashes and dog bags, along with blue and green and everything else.
wicked jungle
honestly dogs in lgbtq flags are such a superdogs aesthetic while pride
dark patio
There are a couple rabbits in a book we like that one half of the ship we like have to the other half of the ship we like, and the rabbits are used to imply the gay feelings the characters have and I love it
He’s being such a dork
rose ice
I wanted to get my dog Riley a purple collar and leash but my mom was like 'No he's a bOY'
wicked jungle
wtf
stop gendering colors you coward
adorable dapper little puppers look just as good in blue as they do in any other color
pure oxide
heck yeah
twilit lake
Purple is a regal colour anyway
pure oxide
pink is a super manly color
wicked jungle
royals~
rose ice
His new collar is gonna be purple just you wait
pure oxide
and I LOVE pink on guys. just... I love pink in general, and it's definitely gotta go with the skin tone and undertones, but pink is
wicked jungle
omg i love so much how no country's flag uses purple since it's royal and used to be very rare until it suddenly was super cheap
but now the lgbtq+ are proudly having the color of royalty everywhere 😏
who knew ace(cards) could be royalty(king or queen card) 😏
rose ice
I'm gonna dye my hair purple one day
twilit lake
I've been partial to cobalt blue for a while
rose ice
Blue and purple and also black, each at separate times is what I'm gonna dye my hair
wicked jungle
cant wait to buy real hair blue wigs
rose ice
Maybe rainbow sometime too idk
wicked jungle
they are so expensive but i'm looking forward to at least have that easily changeable: do i want short hair one day, then long the next?
It's not a problem anymore
twilit lake
Back in the olden days you could simply adjust hair length by pulling on the cord sticking out of your back
wicked jungle
my part of the nb agenda: have short and long wigs of every regular and rainbow color 😌
twilit lake
Gotta shell out the big bucks for those infrared wigs
wicked jungle
honestly they arent that expensive, but real hair are the true money black-holes
have like 5 fake wellmade ones in different shades of purple and blue
rose ice
I'd rather just dye my hair personally, I'd do the enby flag but it would not look good in me
wicked jungle
if your hair can handle that, that's amazing
twilit lake
That edit ha. I'd like to do that as well
I'm just waiting until I can given the situation, having dark hair, I'd rather have it done by a professional as removing the natural colour is complex. Though interesting
pure oxide
just a little nudge toward maybe #💬general if y'all wanna talk about dying hair. I know we've got a lot of people on the server with experience, and I'd be happy to share my recommended youtubers if you ever wanted tutorials.
wicked jungle
oof professional coloring is expensive af, at least it stays in the longest
twilit lake
And as I have about as much experience as the average banana, a safer bet on a good result ha
dry swift
pink is a super manly color
Fun fact: one hundred years ago, pink was for boys and blue was for girls.
wicked jungle
it still is in india from what i know
sterile wadi
I mean stockings were for guys back in the day as well
brazen willow
I mean stockings were for guys back in the day as well
Remember t he good old days when men would wear skirts and dresses and that would make them manly
This is a joke I know they aren’t actually the good old days there where very bad for the majority of people
ancient vapor
Back in the 1400s i betcha my lil overall skirt made me look like the baddest and manliest mf this side of bardstown 😔😔
pure oxide
1000%!
dry swift
Remember t he good old days when men would wear skirts and dresses and that woul...
Trousers are for riding horses. You know who wears trousers? Barbarians!
twilit lake
Well they had to do something, they didn't have enough cloth to make shirts so they made pants, easy!
blissful granite
And in the 2020s, we have once again returned to rejecting pants, as long as Zoom sees us from the waist up!
orchid flume
I just wat to say I'm a lesbian and I love my bi partner to the moon and back. She rocks!
wintry monolith
dry swift
I mean, also... fighting better when trying to protect your lover.
iron escarp
i mean yeah it makes sense
blissful granite
is true, the gay males be powerful warriors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
take that, stereotypes against gay men.
harsh knot
Oh to be a Theban warrior with a loving husband who was also a warrior
peak musk
radiant tundra
For those of you who have ordered from gc2b for a binder before, can I get help making sure I have the sizing right?
rose ice
You can email their support with your measurements and they can recommend you a size!!
Let me know if you can't find the email on their site!
wintry monolith
wicked jungle
what came first - ravens pfp or this meme 🤔 a question as old as time
dry swift
Imagine not knowing that 'they' has been used as a gender-neutral singular pronoun for hundreds of years
chilly river
The amount of people that don't actually know that is depressing >.>
dry swift
Not to mention that the concept of 'he', 'she' and 'they' being the typical pronouns is actually relatively modern. Pretty sure there used to be dozens of them.
blissful granite
To be fair, it was never correct English.
He is going to school.
She is going to school.
They is going to school.
Not "they are going to school" because you're referring to a gender-neutral singular pronoun. It is "they is" and none of the style guides or professional methods of writing recognized this as accurate.
Proper methods of writing is not a disembodied system determined by the person who says them. There's APA, MLA, AP, CSE, Chicago style, Turabian, AAA, all of them have very specific rules on how you write, grammar, punctuation, and verbiage.
pure oxide
Yes, but being a prescriptivist is boring, and they as a third person neutral pronoun has been in colloquial use for hundreds of years.
blissful granite
Colloquial use, sure. I can use terms like "dem" as them, "dey" as they, and people will understand. We can honestly invent any word we want. And usually we do. New words come every day.
In reference to what would be deemed okay in professional writing, that's a bit different. "The person", "the individual", "the non-binary", "the <adjective>", these have all been deemed the appropriate manner for hundreds of years.
If a person says "They are looking for a job" in reference to a non-binary person, this is also grammatically incorrect. They is singular. So even the colloquialisms are incorrect.
I think people should identify as "they", my point is that professional writing (newspapers, teachers, research papers, projects, graduate-level work, etc.) is all based on professional methods. I imagine that the language will continue to adapt and evolve.
Zie and Zir, Hie and Hir might end up being the professional method, we don't know.
thorn sail
The question is as well, how much we can add before things become obsolete. The english language has evolved a lot in the past 60 years. A lot is good, but we lost a lot of information too. I just hope as we adapt, we only add words we need. Too many synonyms dilute the language leads to the loss of words
Some are aight to disappear, but scolars don't really choose what synonyms disappear the common folk do 🤔
blissful granite
That's a tough argument.
thorn sail
I wish I knew more linguistics cause what you're talking about seems really interesting. It really is tbh
blissful granite
It is, there's a lot to professional writing. 🙂
And you can be fired for "making up stuff" that hasn't been formally peer reviewed by a council of these particular style writers.
thorn sail
Its an important subject too. With all these "new" ideas we need to find a way to include them in out culture and languages without removing information thats already there.
I say "new" because I firmly believe everything that is has already been. Lgbtq+ have always existed (for example) its just our society and understanding that has changed
I don't agree with people trying to remove words like "mother", or "father" for example. But I see no problem with the other terms used
blissful granite
It may seem pedantic to be caught up on these, but professional writing sees it the same as someone claiming "1+2=2" which is changing the foundation of all other numbers. What if it's a suspect that robbed a bank and they have a hood on? Do we say "they are" or "they is"? Are we misappropriating non-binary people by associating them with criminals without known gender identity?
There's a lot behind the scenes on these decisions.
pure oxide
I'm on the opposite side of that argument. Adding to our vocabulary, creating new words to encompass meanings is important and necessary, because a word might exist that mostly means or feels like what you're going for, but a new word could come out that encompasses that feeling.
The thing is, spoken language is just a construct, right? To express the vastness of the world and our minds, to help us communicate and compartmentalize, since that's what our brains like to do. But languages which are alive are constantly evolving to help us express ourselves more easily and in ways that are understandable and consider shared experiences.
thorn sail
There really is!! I can't wait till I am healthier and can explore these ideas more fully! I would love to chat on a more equal levelling but considering I have read no papers and had no teaching- well everything i say will be instinctive and not fully formed or knowledgeable
blissful granite
Oooooo Shlee now you're talking my world, I'm loving it. ❤️
pure oxide
I also don't subscribe to the idea that grammatical correctness has to have anything to do with plurality in regards to human beings. The proper conjugation of the verb is "are" with "they" but that doesn't mean we're talking about more than one person. Context is everything.
I get that in a professional setting most people are prescriptivist by nature, but I feel like that's also changing going forward, and I believe that it should. I'm a firm believer in the use of "they" as a gender neutral singular pronoun, even if grammatically it uses a plural conjugation of the verb.
thorn sail
I don't mean that new words SHOULDN'T exist. They will always occur. I mean more like- removing words is something that shouldn't be done. And inclusion of words should be done with wisdom and forethought because we don't really need all the words we COULD make
pure oxide
It's like being angry at gendered languages for using gendered pronouns of objects... it's a grammatical construct in how the language is used, it doesn't mean the table is actually male.
But some words SHOULD cease to exist.
Words that hurt or vilify entire groups of people? Should be eradicated.
thorn sail
I would argue, cease to EXIST, and cease to be USED are the important parts.
pure oxide
But that gets into a much deeper philosophy. Also, no one is advocating that the words "mother" or "father" or "wife" or "husband" get removed
thorn sail
Trudeau is -.-
pure oxide
Well a word can't really cease to exist; if it was used in the past, it still exists, it just doesn't get used and that's not always a bad thing.
No, most people are advocating that instead of using gendered words, you just say things like "parent" or "spouse" or "partner" because it doesn't assume the sexuality of the person you're talking to, nor their gender
blissful granite
So there's an issue with that. The foundation of language boils down to the "signifier" and "signified". In other words, does the thing coming out of your mouth have the exact same meaning from the person who spoke it to the person who received it? And this is where language gets complicated. The shipment of goods on the train aren't the same goods between the two brains.
Signifier is what is said by Person A.
Signified is what is understood by Person B.
If there's a disconnect of language, then communication did not happen.
And if you're talking to an audience, even one signified with an opposing interpretation or understanding of those facts would cause a completely different message.
Culturally, signifiers and signifieds are constantly misconstrued. This is much of what professional writing does to alleviate.
thorn sail
pure oxide
Now, if someone prefers to be called a "wife" instead of a "partner" or "spouse".. then sure. But defaulting to something neutral is honestly what we should be doing, and the direction language should be involving to include more people and stop making assumptions that follow cishet rules.
thorn sail
Basic ss, reading further it reads paranoid so def if you're interested find other sources.
pure oxide
Yeah, that person sounds mad that they're being asked to be as inclusive as possible.
thorn sail
Yuuup
pure oxide
And again... no one is advocating for the removal of those terms in the language. They're advocating that we don't default to cishet assumptions about people.
Let people tell you their preferred term or pronoun.
There's nothing wrong with that, and saying things like "partner" or "parent" instead of the gendered term really does help normalize all kinds of relationships and gender identities.
blissful granite
Right.
pure oxide
@blissful granite Sure, but the only thing I can be responsible for is what I say while trying to be as clear and succinct as possible. It's on the listener or reader to also pay attention to context and consider intention. I can only mitigate my impact so much; if someone's determined to misunderstand, they will.
thorn sail
Tbh its hard finding information because so many lf the angry people come up with "plans" and "agendas " to mock others then others beliebe them and fkfjfjf
summer vale
You've never met my wifes parents.... 🙂
pure oxide
I'd argue against that; I've met plenty of people who seem determined to misunderstand. Sealioning is a prime example of that. 😛
In any case, everyone's understanding is filtered through their own life experiences; I can't remove or undo those, so it's up to the audience to filter those out when we're communicating. Yes, it's my responsibility to be as clear and concise as possible without causing offense, but even in times where I think I'm doing that or my tone reads a certain way, someone else with vastly different life experiences is going to read or hear something in my tone or word choice that gets filtered through their own life experience and warps my intent into an unintentional impact for them.
blissful granite
Good example there. I have no idea what sealioning is.
A reasonable person would:
Step 1. Go to web browser.
2. Go to Google.
3. Type in words to assess what that meant.
4. Research it.
5. Return to this conversation.
But what if what I look up isn't the same as what you're referring to?
That's the signifier and signified.
thorn sail
Oooooh
pure oxide
Then you ask "is this what you meant?" and I can confirm or correct.
Communication isn't a one-way street. 🙂
thorn sail
I don't think thats what they meant Shlee ndndnd
pure oxide
It is, nochu. I'm going off of his example. "research it. return to this conversation. but what if what I look up isn't the same as what you're referring to?"
thorn sail
I can't speak for him- but I believe that was an example to explain the importance. Not to say asking ISN'T right, just that those words match that scenario
pure oxide
Then you ask the person to clarify, instead of making the assumption that what you found is what I meant, unless what you found seems to fit the context; in this case, the first result is from wikipedia: " It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"" ... which confirms my statement of "intentional misunderstanding"
Regardless, my response is valid.
pure oxide
Even if it's not this specific concrete example... When you don't understand, the onus is on you to ask questions for clarification.
Hi marmy. Because we've been talking about using "they" as gender neutral, and the evolution of language in relation to non-binary gender identities in the English language. 🙂
wicked jungle
looks like an argument, yall good?
pure oxide
It's.. a discussion.
blissful granite
In the vernacular, I fully agree.
But the original discussion was professional writing.
No argument, we all loving and civil ❤️
thorn sail
Marmy we are trying to talk about the implications of language and (in this context) lgbt in the professional context
pure oxide
Also, since I'm a mod... please trust that I would do my job correctly if this discussion and conversation didn't belong here. lol
wicked jungle
language is weird, communication is valid, cishets thinking we're erasing them is stupid, how are we all doing today?
thorn sail
Thats not the argument marmy but...I can understand why you think they think that
wicked jungle
Thats not the argument marmy but...I can understand why you think they think tha...
that's alot of thinking 👀
blissful granite
Yeah it was a long discussion but the discussion isn't cishets. 🙂
iron escarp
i only came in halfway the discussion so i dont understand whats going on haha
pure oxide
Marmy. Please stop trying to mini-mod and change the subject. We're having a very civil and in fact kind conversation here. If I needed your help changing the subject, I would ask.
wicked jungle
i only came in halfway the discussion so i dont understand whats going on haha
highfive
thorn sail
@blissful granite if you know any easy to read papers I would love to read them! My vocab isn't what it used to be so rip me 🤣
wicked jungle
i didnt minimod? i just asked a question??
supple brook
No, you're purposefully trying to change the topic and it's pretty obvious
wicked jungle
i legit just asked a question sweet davy jones
thorn sail
Don't forget his locker-
blissful granite
Haha, I could probably find some on the subject.
But we're kind of talking about two very different discussions and want to distinguish them for clarity.
- One is simply understanding what a person is saying, and requires language, which is the recent topic.
- The other, previously, was professional writing. Which is very very different from how we chat here or in real life. Professional writing is meant to stand the test of time and be understood 1000 years from now as it is today, which is tough.
There's progressive and conservative manners of writing (not political views, but writing) to establish what is understood and how do we retain knowledge as a species. So it's good for us to know which one we're referring to. 🙂
thorn sail
Indeed! Honestly this is all very engaging. I love this kind of stuff! Ty for reminded me of this interest. I haven't thought about it for so long
blissful granite
Language we're totally free to learn and adopt at a moment's notice with the vernacular, which is very important, because it fuels change in professional writing.
wicked jungle
i asked "how are we doing" because this looked like another argument directed at mother vain(is it ok if i call you so?) and i just wanted to make sure that mother vain is doing good
and nochu, cause i like nochu, hope you're doing good nochu ;w;
supple brook
I'm sure vain could tell us themselves if they feel threatened or dogpiled
wicked jungle
but yes if it seemed like i wanted to steer away, i apologize genuinely
thorn sail
Marmy you're so sweet ;.; good vibes rn bby
wicked jungle
hugs go out to you ;o; - if you like hugs
pure oxide
@blissful granite To get back to it, in terms of professional writing, I can understand the prescriptivism but at some point professional writing has to change and evolve as well, as society changes and evolves, and it really has. Let's be clear; rules and regulations for spelling words didn't even really exist until the 1700s, and guidelines for professional writing are even younger.
blissful granite
I'm okay. 🙂 I think words came out that might have been misconstrued, but clarification was made that makes sense and was kind. ❤️
I love all here.
wicked jungle
that's all i wanted to hear hugs go out to you - if you like hugs, else appreciative finger guns fingerguns
pure oxide
I understand the desire to want to have things be understandable a thousand years into the future, but let's consider a thousand years into our past and what our language was like then. The unfortunate fact of the matter is, language evolves when it is alive and what we see today doesn't remotely look like what it did 1000 years ago either. I understand needing to have a rubric to decide what passes and what doesn't when you're trying to teach people how to communicate professionally, but I'm still a firm believer that those guidelines and rules can change to reflect the society that we're in, and that context is just as important as content. 😛
blissful granite
They're two very different audiences.
Like, us chatting here, we're all learning what each person means.
Marmy wanted clarification if what they said is understood as in kindness and love. That can only be accomplished in the vernacular. But in professional writing, you can't ask that. You have to have had it right the first time in a manner that was written perfectly without emotion or double-intent. And that's why professional writing is awful to write. 😄
There's no asking the person for clarification in professional writing. And it sucks.
pure oxide
I mean, if we get down the nitty-gritty, legal writing defines those terms at the very beginning, so if someone wanted to use "they" they could define their use of that word in the paper going forward and that would help to mitigate misunderstanding in that regard, no? XD
blissful granite
Not in newspapers, as an example. That's too many trees.
wicked jungle
is "they is" the actual correct useage of the nb pronoun?
blissful granite
Actually Marmy's right.
wicked jungle
huh?
blissful granite
They is a writer.
Is is singular.
Are is plural.
wicked jungle
i mean if you take they as third person plural it's wrong gramatically
but they as third person singular is a whole different story?
pure oxide
If you wanted to turn it into a separate "they" for singular versus plural use then yes, certainly, that would be correct. In current English as it is, grammatically they uses a plural conjugation of the verb "to be" and saying "they is" sounds like AAVE
blissful granite
Which is why this is so complicated ❤️
wicked jungle
question: what about other pronouns, like xe/xem
is it xe is? xe are?
xe are honestly SOUNDS way better?
pure oxide
It's interesting to say the least. Linguistics and language is my jam, so this has been a fun mental exercise first thing in the "morning" for me (I just woke up an hour ago, rip)
blissful granite
Other languages did a much better job at this. Romance languages have a gender-neutral professional word if you don't know the gender, or simply regard in high esteem.
Xe/Xem are two examples.
Zie/Zir is another.
Hie/Hir is another.
graceful geyser
i;m friends with someone in anpther server who uses xe/xem and xe doesn't seem to have a preference?
wicked jungle
i;m friends with someone in anpther server who uses xe/xem and xe doesn't seem t...
so xe is and xe are is both ok (by xem standards)?
pure oxide
I can't argue about that, but that seems wrong to me, since most romance languages are gendered by default.
blissful granite
Professional writing still doesn't know.
pure oxide
Even in German, the "default" word is generally masculine.
graceful geyser
so xe is and xe are is both ok (by xem standards)?
from what xe has said, yes
iron escarp
aren't some neopronouns based in creating gender-neutral pronouns for specific highly gendered languages?
graceful geyser
but xe also stressed it might be different for other people who use xe/xem
wicked jungle
from what xe has said, yes
thank you so much
graceful geyser
np 💛
blissful granite
Even in German, the "default" word is generally masculine.
Ohhhhh what's the German version of "Usted" in Spanish?
pure oxide
Sie
wicked jungle
oh it's ok, that's why i said "by xem standards"
pure oxide
Although "sie" is feminine
blissful granite
Is it?
thorn sail
So, xe/xem is from what language originally?
pure oxide
So in German I suppose the default for "formal you" is Feminine
except Sie and sie are two different words. 🙂
blissful granite
You can imagine how I spent 2 months trying to learn Japanese and went nope
pure oxide
ich - I
du - informal you
er/sie/es - he/she/it
ihr - y'all
wir -we
sie/Sie - they/formal you
iron escarp
So, xe/xem is from what language originally?
i dont think they all have a language-based source, but some of them are that i know of(we have it in dutch too i believe but i cant think of it rn)
pure oxide
Japanese is way easier than German, rofl
iron escarp
as somebody that studied both? it kindof depends on what part of the language you focus on
as well as what your native language is
blissful granite
I'm sure my Spanish and Italian would make German slightly easier to understand, but who knows.
wicked jungle
"Sie" is neither since you can take it from the feminine third person singular "sie" or the neutral/more masculine third person plural "sie"
pure oxide
The only complication in Japanese is verb conjugation. Subjects don't change, and verb conjugation has nothing to do with the subject, it has to do with the action taking place.
I find Japanese to be vastly easier than German, and I speak German almost daily now.
iron escarp
i mean japanese writing/reading has been pretty hard for me but that might be because i have to do it by myself instead of with teachers like i did with german
blissful granite
I bought Rosetta Stone just for it to make fun of me. 
pure oxide
(but if we're going to just chat about languages in general, I'd highly recommend we finally do move to #💬general or #💭general2 )
wicked jungle
japanese formal grammar sucks butt
blissful granite
True.
wicked jungle
this conversation makes me wanna study languages again to see how gendered they are and how gendered their roots are
iron escarp
does japanese have any sort of neutral pronouns/language? because im not sure
wicked jungle
like chinese seems pretty gender neutral with "ta" for him and "ta" for her; but the hanzi has the gender built in
same with "they": those also have the gender hanzi built in
blissful granite
I can't speak for Japanese language, but we can definitely discuss Japanese culture in reference to LGBTQIA+ folk.
pure oxide
Japanese doesn't have gendered language. All their pronouns are neutral. They mostly have "I" and "you" and then you talk about the other person by name and then they drop the pronouns altogether and you have to figure out who they are talking about through context.
wicked jungle
yep cause japanese is an object oriented language which is just SO COOL
pure oxide
It can get very confusing if you're used to having a lot of references to rely on for object.
wicked jungle
i really wonder how chinese nb's handle the pronouns o-o
are they still ok with "ta" ft. gendered hanzi or do they chose to add a gender neutral hanzi or forgo the whole gendered part of it hence making it look like "ye" which means "also" i am confusion
how tf am i going to go to china for uni 😂
blissful granite
I haven't studied enough on how China's LGBTQIA community is represented. I know two foreign exchange students from China who had a very difficult time with the concept when they came here.
thorn sail
It would be something to ask. I am learning indonesian and I was interested to learn you is kamu (gender neutral) and he/she is dia (also gender neutral)
iron escarp
my language seems to have unnoficial gender neutral pronouns but i dont really know if i like them at all, so i might have to adopt some sort of neopronoun instead
wicked jungle
lol i usually go to the "lgbt rights in [country]" page of wikipedia and go through the info and their sources, even if it's cray bare-bones it's still a good way to slide into it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China
iron escarp
like being called the dutch equivalent of it doesnt feel right despite the fact im fine with the english it/its pronouns
wicked jungle
yeah, some are ok with it? we do have some people on the server who chose "it/its" as their main pronouns but it's valid if oyu dont feel comfortable with that and find your neo-pronouns that fit you more
iron escarp
maybe it is because dutch society doesnt seem very open to gender-neutral concepts as a whole? i think? like how people might use these pronouns in a language im not as comfortable in as english to see me as an object instead of a person? i dont know if this makes sense
wicked jungle
like i dont like any of the neo-pronouns for myself but know that germany doesnt have anything fitting to me, so i bite my tongue and am ok with "she"
iron escarp
i mean i am comfortable with dutch he/him pronouns but having that be my only pronouns in my native language doesnt neccesarily feel good? because i dont think im a man as much as i am masculine-aligned
wicked jungle
highfive star, highfive 😔
what about third person plural pronouns in dutch? are they still gendered?
iron escarp
but using neopronouns would just make it more likely for the general person to misgender me just because or smth like im p scared of that
iron escarp
what about third person plural pronouns in dutch? are they still gendered?
third person? im not really sure if i get what sort of pronoun you mean with that 😅
wicked jungle
like they counts as plural pronoun for multiple people
3 people are going to the beach -> they are going to the beach
it's hard to work off of the english language here 😅
iron escarp
oh we do have one of those but its the same as the dutch feminine pronoun (zij)
iron escarp
like we also have ze but thats still too close to zij for my comfort
which is probably why i forgot we have them
wicked jungle
that's ok, words are hard
pure oxide
German and Dutch are like first cousins but y'all like to pretend you're distantly related and it makes me lol. 😛
iron escarp
distantly related? dutch is just drunk german wdym
pure oxide
My husband, who is German: I don't understand Dutch!
me, listening to someone speak Dutch...
my husband: oh, they're talking about "blah blah blah" like..
lol
Oh I know. And Danish is Norwegian or Swedish spoken with a potato in your mouth
supple brook
When ditches talk I can actually usually get the gist of most of it too
wicked jungle
well it's still interesting to see how different dutch pronouns are to german since they are close to belgium and maybe took some french into their pronouns
supple brook
...dutchies 😂
pure oxide
@iron escarp What're the dutch pronouns?
iron escarp
well it's still interesting to see how different dutch pronouns are to german si...
i am scared now
wicked jungle
of the french?
iron escarp
<@!378243911799537665> What're the dutch pronouns?
wicked jungle
i just live too close to switzerland and get to see how they mangle their language(s)
iron escarp
of the french?
who else? i was never good at french ever
pure oxide
wait wait wait
wicked jungle
since they have a concoction of german italian and french and austrian and i am scared of swiss people talking to me
pure oxide
formal you pronouns.. literally... create... "UwU?????
supple brook
I probably understand Dutch better than schweizerdeutsch
iron escarp
formal you pronouns.. literally... create... "UwU?????
formally uwu's
wicked jungle
formal you pronouns.. literally... create... "UwU?????
of course, that's the natural thing, every country should start doing that. dont uwu think? ;3
pure oxide
wicked jungle
THE HAND
wicked jungle
I probably understand Dutch better than schweizerdeutsch
amen
have you ever heard swiss french tho????????? it's bonkers, an already cursed language (screw you louis 11th) just a tad more f'cked up
pure oxide
language is so interesting. and so weird. and watching society evolve at lightening speed and seeing language try to keep up is so fascinating
wicked jungle
i wonder how the pronouns are tho ._.
iron escarp
i am just here vibing knowing dutch only barely, not caring if it dies, while also wishing to learn lowkey nearly extinct languages that also fall under the celtic sphere
wicked jungle
oh no i opened a can of worms that i so do not appreciate
iron escarp
like dutch is just the worse language in terms of rules and exeptions istg like in terms of germanic language roots
wicked jungle
why worse?
iron escarp
like when you have so many exeptions to grammar rules you make, why not make the exeptions the rule instead
iron escarp
why worse?
*worst
wicked jungle
that's interesting, usually the exeptions are just exceptions so i cant really grab on to what you mean cause i can only drunkenly read dutch
maybe time to move if this isnt about pronouns anymore
ik that the dutch flag is an lgbt flag basically (/j) but yeh
iron escarp
i mean the thing is that there's so many things that dont follow the grammar rules you learn that it feels kind of redundant to teach it that way
as in 'what's the point of having rules if they're constantly broken'
wicked jungle
but yeah, props to vain and myst for starting this convo, thank you for blowing my mind once again 😂
if anybody wants to continue the gender.neutral pronouns convo with different languages: yes plz 👀 i am still interested into what nochu meant with "dia"
iron escarp
maybe time to move if this isnt about pronouns anymore
ik that the dutch flag is...
i mean if you flip it and add it under there it could probably pass as a tumblr pride flag
wicked jungle
because we know how wonderful tumblr pride flags outside of the regular lgbtqia+ tend to be? ;-;
iron escarp
i just wish dutch gender neutral pronouns existed without being object/feminine aligned
wicked jungle
i just dont get how we lived through ages and ages relying on the outside appearance of people to say what gender they are without once thinking "huh, how bout we have a gender-neutral sound so we dont accidentally misgender somebody thanks to the thought of people with outward gender marker as gender"
"you have long hair, you a she!" "no sorry, i didnt have time to get my hair cut this past century"
iron escarp
i mean the answer probably lies in sexuality and what was seen as generally "socially acceptable"?
wicked jungle
could you elaborate that thought i dont think i quite understand?
iron escarp
especially because pro-creation had a lot more importance before because of general health and life expectations?
pure oxide
I mean, that's a pretty narrow Western European and short-sighted time-wise view.
PLENTY of cultures have seen things like long hair as masculine, or all kinds of other things. But it's just human nature to want to organize and categorize things.
wicked jungle
some other cultures have the exact oposite so it's just - lol shlee
iron escarp
i mean shlee has a point
wicked jungle
same thought once again 😂 them typing fingers be working overtime
iron escarp
plus we're basically forced to see a lot of history through the eyes of the people that took it upon themselves to interpret it
pure oxide
105 words a minute baybeeeee, lol
supple brook
A lot of cultures, especially native cultures, very much did acknowledge nb and trans folks and celebrated them before westerners colonized them
iron escarp
plus we're basically forced to see a lot of history through the eyes of the peop...
so that doesnt help any actual insight on what the truth abt how specific things were seen societally in history
supple brook
From what I know Asian/SEA cultures as well
And erasing that and pretending the world has a unified history when it comes to this stuff is a very.. Western and white world view
iron escarp
And erasing that and pretending the world has a unified history when it comes to...
thats exactly what i was trying to get at
wicked jungle
A lot of cultures, especially native cultures, very much did acknowledge nb and ...
which makes me curious about what about the native roots of (mainly) europe that also got overtaken by christianity - we dont know shit about those anymore since they have been dead and burned and burried for sooooooo long
supple brook
From what I know, most cultures celebrated queer people. I mean look at Rome
iron escarp
i mean literally all we have left of norse stuff is either archeological or seen as through the lens of other cultures/religions
supple brook
And then Christians came lol
iron escarp
i mean literally all we have left of norse stuff is either archeological or seen...
and that goes for a decent chunk of celtic stuff too
pure oxide
two spirits were a thing
supple brook
Archeologists found ancient Egyptians who clearly transitioned from one gender to another, being buried like the gender they preferred to be associated with. Queer people have always existed
pure oxide
among others. I just wish everything wasn't always having to be filtered through a western colonizer lens; I kind of hate how much america influences the rest of the world
iron escarp
and that goes for a decent chunk of celtic stuff too
like where i'm from has actually lost its ancient language and its history outside of comparisons of our old deities to the roman deities
supple brook
two spirits were a thing
Still are!
iron escarp
like there are of course archeological finds that confirm queer people have always existed, there's just too many people that were in charge of that sort of stuff that seemed to have played it down or outright denied such things? or well that seemed to be a huge thing generally for quite some time
supple brook
I'm not saying anything was perfect, just that queer people have always existed
pure oxide
LOOK AT THESE TWO WOMEN BURIED TOGETHER HOLDING EACH OTHER THEY MUST HAVE BEEN AS CLOSE AS SISTERS
iron escarp
OH MY GOD THEY WERE ROOMMATES
empty siren
OH MY GOD THEY WERE ROOMMATES
Such good roommates they never got buried with their husbands...
wicked jungle
LOOK AT THESE TWO WOMEN BURIED TOGETHER HOLDING EACH OTHER THEY MUST HAVE BEEN A...
obviously besties idk what you are talking about
they just shared a bed and a coffin because they were broke
wicked jungle
"two girls got married at the same time, sad their grooms couldnt make it"
iron escarp
like imagine attempting to erase the lesbianism of iconic lesbians ugh
wicked jungle
WAIT NO DONT GIVE THEM MORE VALIDATION 😂
iron escarp
like imagine attempting to erase the lesbianism of iconic lesbians ugh
like i swear the erasure of feminine-aligned sexuality happens so much more often and for what
wicked jungle
imagine getting burried with boobs on your coffin and still getting misgendered
"i finally got accepted as the trans woman i am, the people of the future will look at my coffin and find it so regular since they will all accept trans people for who they are-"
"omg it's a man in a woman's coffin!"
mad mummy face
pure oxide
it's times like these, my favorite reaction photo comes into play
wicked jungle
honestly i wish mummy curses were real JUST for this sort of rudeness
pure oxide
wicked jungle
fucking haunt those rude researchers
iron escarp
i mean i def would haunt researchers like that
wicked jungle
make them die of a plague idc, make mummy curses great again!
iron escarp
who needs an afterlife when you can go scare the skin off of bigots
wicked jungle
😂
i hope we can shapeshift as ghosts tho
i dont wanna be burried in my feminine body and be in the ghost-afterlife with the same exact thing
iron escarp
thats why im gonna be cremated, ashes cant have gender
wicked jungle
ohhhh good point
iron escarp
or or i can be compost for nature? who needs an expensive casket when you can become tree/mushroom/pant food
wicked jungle
wasnt there a show with monsters and there was one a pile of ash and they had to keep that person safe from wind?
honestly it goes against my fears but you do you boo 😂
become food for the future!(?)
just like in wall-e
iron escarp
also an unfortunate fact abt bones is that they can apparently be used to identify a skeleton's agab? like if thats true thats incredibly rude
maybe i wanted to be made into some cool body accesories when only my bones remained
wicked jungle
yeah because of the space needed for female genitalia it's really easy to determine your gender because of your pelvis bones?
iron escarp
ugh dont remind me of that shit
wicked jungle
i need to look that one up again tho, havent researched this in a minute
iron escarp
i'd rather have my bones be tested than them being able to figure out what genitals i have based on my pelvis ugh
wicked jungle
sorry ;-;
i used to be hella interested in such stuff because of shows like "navycis"; "criminal minds" and "forever" ;O;
iron escarp
also i cant pull the trick of putting something on my casket to signify my gender because i dont think that would be acceptable in any sense so that sucks ass
iron escarp
lmao just take the bones apart and put them in the coffin-tube im sure its fine
iron escarp
as if thats any easier lmao
wicked jungle
definitively easier than ripping all the bones off your body and still having to squish them all into tubes 😂
iron escarp
like i heard of being cremated and having your ashes made into like glass or an LP but i would be really immature with that
or like have the ashes worked into some sort of jewellery which feels like the more mature decision
like if i did make my ashes into an lp i would probably make it a meme song of some kind
wicked jungle
ashes into glass?
iron escarp
yeah like worked into glass
wicked jungle
mobilé time? 🤔
iron escarp
i mean like glass artwork/scultpures stuff like that
i would probably request something horridly silly
iron escarp
i mean i believe get can get smelted into the glass like color granules used to color the glass?
and then something can get made out of it that way?
wicked jungle
i can become rainbow glass o.o
this can be but in glass?????????
is that what the rainbow people agenda is?
iron escarp
i mean it can be
blissful granite
i get confused if that's the wrong flag now.
there is this one now:
but i kind of like this one more.
pure oxide
oooh, I like that bottom one a lot too
blissful granite
And then there's this one that I seen recently.
and I'm not quite sure what the umbrella means.
wicked jungle
that's how i'd explain those:
- usual rainbow: lgbt; used to be more actively used just for the LG part of the community
- black and brown have been added for added respect to POC LGBT members who gave us our pride-month and started the campaign for equal rights for LGBT people - i dont know much about LGBT history in the english-native countries, please correct me on this!!!
-> sometimes black can also stand for the straight allies (when used with white) - white, pink, cyan is for + trans (T)
- pink, purple, blue is for + bi (B)
-> the rainbow (LG) + bi (B) + trans (T) would then be the all inclusive LGBT flag - the umbrella + trans is "under the trans umbrella" for for example non-binary, bigender, agender and genderfluids identifying as trans
- the color gradient from yellow through tan and brown to black is a more complex added respect for the POC of the LGBT community for the same reasons as mentioned above
so basically none of them is incorrect, just all of them pay additional respect to some important parts of the community
if i understand the colors correctly of course
humble tusk
I've also heard that the brown stripe is specifically for LGBT+ POC, while the black stripe is to honor those lost due to HIV/AIDS
wicked jungle
oh true the aids crisis, thank you so much!
humble tusk
hidden inlet
The umbrella is for zombies
iron escarp
What is that even supposed to mean?
waxen hare
oh also ive heard people use phrases like "it falls under the umbrella of lgbtq+" so maybe its a reference to that
twilit lake
I do like the idea that it includes those that are only capable of either moving or turning independently. Tank control life isn't easy
blissful granite
Umbrella Corp
Not gonna lie, "zombie" defines my sexual orientation way better than "happy".
pure oxide
XD
hidden inlet
I think my problem with those last two maps is clutter. It's a lot of visual overload, and it makes it hard for me personally to immediately identify it as a pride flag.
charred needle
but i kind of like this one more.
This is my favourite one and the one that's used the most
wintry monolith
humble tusk
healthy femininity
wintry monolith
charred needle
idle bane
hey y'all! I hope this is appropriate for me to post here but a friend of mine made this petition to protect a trans girl at their school
This girl has been doing track the entire year and recently came out as trans. The school board moved her to the girl's track team (hooray) but another student complained. The goal of this petition is to show the school board that there's broad support for trans athletes so that they don't go back on their decision (another petition has started in an effort to ban this girl from track)
I'd really appreciate it if you could sign and share this petition!
(Also reminder that donations do not go to this cause they are taken by change.org)
https://www.change.org/p/hempfield-make-hempfield-more-inclusive?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_28803728_en-US%3A3&recruiter=758988214&recruited_by_id=318a2a50-8173-11e7-96ea-d110be3e530a&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=share_petition
wicked jungle
QUESTION
Is saying "when girls become boys/boys become girls" an actual respectful way of referring to trans boys/girls? It sounds wrong, but is this normal and ok?
pure oxide
I am not trans, and I would absolutely love to hear from our trans brothers and sisters, but I -personally- would never say that because it sounds.. just.. really bad.
wicked jungle
exactly, i dont like it but it seems so normalized?
dark patio
I personally don't love that, there's implications there that my head is too achey too properly verbalize
wicked jungle
i saw it in the responses of the petition and quietly got triggered but researching about it even some trans folk refer to themselves like that but there's also alot of pushback against it
yeah same elsa, my overthinker brain is confused
vague nymph
Would probably be better to hear it from those who are trans.
dark patio
Yeah, hi, I'm trans
opaque lintel
QUESTION
Is saying "when girls become boys/boys become girls" an actual **respe...
HI as trans guy id stray away from this because ‘becomes’ it implies that we werent always our gender, if that makes sense!
wicked jungle
hi i'm nb and new to this 
dark patio
like, I'm not a girl who BECAME a boy, I'm someone who was perceived as a girl for years and dealt with a lot of discomfort and confusion with that before I was able to figure out who I actually was.
pure oxide
HI as trans guy id stray away from this because ‘becomes’ it implies that we wer...
That's what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate because I just woke up from a nap, but that was my initial kind of.. reaction to seeing that, even as a cis person.
wicked jungle
ok so i'm not overthinking and getting unneccessary offended? cause it sounds to me like the trope of "trans women WERE/ARE men"
but also it's normalized, so i'm just confused²
iron escarp
ok so i'm not overthinking and getting unneccessary offended? cause it sounds to...
it can be used in that manner unfortunately
opaque lintel
no ur fine!! for me the wording kinda feels like being trans is a choice which is .. not true fjsjfj. every trans person will take it to mean different things but being offended by it is totally normal i would be too
chilly river
As someone who is under the enby umbrella, that made me twitch.
vague nymph
Though I do wonder, would there have been a better way to phrase it?
wicked jungle
thanks to all of you for ...kinda explaining? and educating me about this so kindly 🙇
and yeah same meriberry
dark patio
Though I do wonder, would there have been a better way to phrase it?
Anything about figuring themselves out/discovering themselves in my opinion
opaque lintel
Though I do wonder, would there have been a better way to phrase it?
depends on the context and what the person its about is comfy with, couldve used ‘realised they were trans’, ‘transitioned’ etc
vague nymph
Is? It
Autocorrect needs to stop swapping letters and words
wicked jungle
well since the sentence is out in the open on that link:
There is a reason you do not see girls that are trans and becoming boys dominating the sports scene (specifically Track since this is the sport for this scenario). But, you do see biological men becoming women and dominating the scene.
I would simply remove the "girls that are trans and become boys/biological men become women" and instead put it as "trans boys arent dominating the scene" and "trans women are dominating their sport"?
vague nymph
Ah, I see. So it would be best to ask the person themselves what they’d be most comfortable with as different people have different opinions and comforts.
opaque lintel
Ah, I see. So it would be best to ask the person themselves what they’d be most ...
u got it
opaque lintel
well since the sentence is out in the open on that link:
> There is a reason you...
yeah thats real icky i hate that fjdjfDJDB its so clearly written by a cis person who has no idea what they mean
iron escarp
i just dont understand why its so hard to just say trans women/men girls/boys? like its less wordy and it wont sound demeaning?
pure oxide
Yes, but there are also ways to make your basic statements more respectful and reflective of the reality that I think a majority of trans people would feel like those sentences are disrespectful or still don't see the truth behind who they are. And maybe some trans folks are totally okay with that, but most of the ones I've ever met or been friends with in my life have never felt like they were [this gender] BECOMING [that gender]. It was more of them outwardly reflecting who they are inwardly because the body they were born with didn't fit them.
vague nymph
Thanks, I try to take opportunities to learn to better understand things I don’t know much of. That way I can avoid accidentally offending someone and can instead try to find a way that doesn’t.
dark patio
There have also been trans guys who have been affected by all this sports nonsense but they just don't get talked about because they're not convenient to the people getting mad about it
idle bane
well since the sentence is out in the open on that link:
> There is a reason you...
i might be wrong but this looks like it's arguing against the purpose of the petition?
wicked jungle
well yes but actually yes
iron escarp
i mean trans people and (school) sport (groups) dont go together well at all
like why does it all have to be seperated by gender unless its on a professional level(where 'gender' matters more because of differences in biological muscle building and stuff i think?)
wicked jungle
just when looking that kind of wording up i found a lot of trans blogs refering to themselves or other trans people like that as well
so i was wondering if it's just me who is so iffed out by this
hence why i asked ;-;
opaque lintel
i tend to stay away from trans sports debates bc it makes me uncomfortable but the entire debate is meaningless anyways because sports is biased towards those with natural ability whether theyre trans or not it makes no difference
iron escarp
i mean trans people and (school) sport (groups) dont go together well at all
lik...
like i know i hated spots because i felt like i was looked down on as the single feminine person existing in sports class and i hate gendered sports("relaxing" sports for women, weights and cardio for men)
wicked jungle
i might be wrong but this looks like it's arguing against the purpose of the pet...
also it's the most liked comment and i'm even more iffed out by that fact 🙂
iron escarp
i tend to stay away from trans sports debates bc it makes me uncomfortable but t...
agreed, like how do people think top sport/olympics work, like they have literal genetic advantages so much above the average person?
wicked jungle
apparently shoes can also be so important in sports that a whole line of nike shoes got banned from marathon competitions fingerguns
but i can imagine it to be hard to be an athletically gifted kid and being trans - everybody can get the right genes, even us
so what do you do if you're a trans woman who got blessed by the gene deities? compete with men? compete with women? there are little to no sports competitions that are gender neutral
iron escarp
i mean i dont think thats really a discussion i wanna get into, because its obvious where atlethic pro orgaisations would put a trans woman because it'll create an uproar by some cis people otherwise😔
like unfortunately we've seen it action as well that they weren't even allowed in because they didnt know where to put a specific trans person
wicked jungle
life is hard 😔 and then there's people who believe we'd chose this style of life volunteeringly
iron escarp
fr though whats up with that? like if i could choose to not feel uncomfortable with my whole ass body i would probably have done so already
wicked jungle
yep
i still dont understand how this can be a trend honestly
for tiktok brownie points? kinda iffy af if you ask me
gay, pan, bi, trans, ace etc people have always existed
iron escarp
i mean the answer is that it isnt, and that the people that are making it out to be a trend simply have the most skewed perspective or they're trying to be pick-me's for the cis people that believe "there's too many trans people" or whatever
wicked jungle
now we just finally have the opportunity to find others like us and be ourselves among them
iron escarp
exactly, like without the online ace community i would have simply believed myself broken, and i would have taken hormones of my agab to restore something that was never meant to be fixed in such a way
wicked jungle
like i wouldnt have let myself realize that i am nb or panromantic if it werent for the great friends i made along the way with my huge internalized homophobia
i need shlee to react "this" under your messages ffs 😂
pure oxide
XD
iron escarp
i mean i wouldnt have known i felt more comfortable with nonbinary-aligned terms of gender without my therapist and some of my friends
wicked jungle
i always wonder about that part of identity finding: therapists
iron escarp
i mean i wouldnt have known i felt more comfortable with nonbinary-aligned terms...
not that there would have been anything wrong with labeling myself as a man, i just dont feel fully attached to the binary genders myself, that might be because of either my neurodivergency or my asexuality as well
wicked jungle
it's such a bonkers idea to me since most i've gotten to know were homophobic pieces of trash that would even ignore real trauma from accidents
or simply because you're you
you're the wonderful nb ace neurodivergent starkult we all came to know and like shrug
if i missed something: feel free to correct me, my brain be mush
iron escarp
i mean my therapist isnt a real therapist? i just dont have an english term to describe it? she helped me get a referal to the gender team in a hospital(aka get actually diagnosed and get the help that comes with it)
wicked jungle
well she had the ability o diagnose you professionally so i'd say there is a doc of psychology/gender identity somewhere 🤔
iron escarp
like i've had a horrible track record with therapists because nobody will take my neurodivergent ass seriously, its so infantisiling
wicked jungle
but she's good to you?
iron escarp
well she had the ability o diagnose you professionally so i'd say there is a doc...
i mean there is! i actually turned down going to his clinic and possibly cutting down my wait time because he had no good vibes and he seemed to want to focus on everything but my gender, poking my nose in everything i told him he shouldnt deal with because it would not be his job to
iron escarp
but she's good to you?
oh yes absolutely, she also has the credentials to assist autistic ppl in their daily life(not sure what its called but its basically like a social worker ig?) and some other stuff
wicked jungle
waitwaitwait it's not his job? what is his job then 😂
iron escarp
i do have to find a new gp/doctors office to go to though, because i've got to change my referal from the amsterdam location to the location(s) in my province
wicked jungle
ohh
iron escarp
but im in no hurry for the time being regardless, i have a binder, almost all people i interact with use my chosen name and all that
wicked jungle
that's great, really c: it sounds like an already positive environment for you
twilit lake
I spot dutch references
iron escarp
yes that is in fact correct! i am dutch :>
twilit lake
We are one, we are many
wicked jungle
did you decide on a name or are you still on the lookout btw?
so many dutch lads and all of you are always a pleasure to talk to, how come 👀
iron escarp
did you decide on a name or are you still on the lookout btw?
still on the lookout
iron escarp
so many dutch lads and all of you are always a pleasure to talk to, how come 👀
i dont actually have an answer to this, but i think my crippling addiction to cheese helps
wicked jungle
ahh so it is the cheese and not the water?
iron escarp
asthma will not stop me from consuming an entire bag of cheese at midnight
wicked jungle
idk how much asthma can stop you there but your stomach might revolt 👀
unless the bag is tiny of course
twilit lake
We got the good kind of cheese
iron escarp
i actually ate some feta cheese today
iron escarp
still on the lookout
i mean i kind of had to give it up at the moment but i really am still thinking
wicked jungle
i made cheesecake with saled caramel sauce the day before yesterday actually, it was a nice experience and i definitively wanna ge better at backing to make some hidden gay cupcakes for halloween
iron escarp
that sounds really nice, i wish i had an oven so i could bake my own cakes to feed my inner ace screams
wicked jungle
but for now you're more than ok with your current chosen name despite the circumstances or did you change it inbetween now and the last time we talked about that? :o
i owe you one cake lol
if you want ace cupcakes, just say the word 😂
iron escarp
but for now you're more than ok with your current chosen name despite the circum...
yes! i still go by jay/jeremy for the time being
wicked jungle
okidokes, good to know ^^
iron escarp
i just really wish for a name that has a meaning that feels right for me? i just chose jay because ehheheh cheeky bird friend
wicked jungle
that's already a nice meaning but i get what you mean
iron escarp
and i can pass it off as a nickname to the people im not out to as well so for now its good regardless
wicked jungle
i'm getting whiplash from my preferred name wishes
one day i'm fine with jesse, the next week it's triggering af
but that might be because of my students and "jesse" being more "jessi" in german which is way too close for comfort to my deadname
iron escarp
awh that sucks :c
wicked jungle
it does but hey, at least my friends call me anything but jessi :D
wintry monolith
i just really wish for a name that has a meaning that feels right for me? i just...
Bird name gang! 💛
Hell yeah
wicked jungle
harsh knot
i love bird
blissful granite
rainbird is gorgeous
wintry monolith
Rainbird?
supple brook
Rainbow bird probably lmao
spiral steeple
https://astral-glass.tumblr.com/post/162068218543/happy-pride-month-with-pride-b...
In bi, but I'm loving the ace bird!!
wicked jungle
i have found so many rainbo(wbi)rbs ;o; thank you raven and jay
wintry monolith
cosmic basin
Hahahhahahahahahahahahaa
dry swift
Gotta love gender dimorphism.
wintry monolith
twilit lake
Concerning putting a full locomotive in. This is why we call them pocket universes
iron escarp
man it's really hard attempting to look for a name inspired by nature/space that isnt simply the name of like a tree or a mythological being or a planet
i dont know if anybody has any idea how to look for gender neutral names because all i can find is "boy/girl names" or whatever
supple brook
Hmm there are some baby name websites that have neutral options!
iron escarp
like there is a huge list of gender neutral names but its only sortable by letters and i cant just read them all hoping there's something in there that resonates 😔
tacit patio
I think it’s hard too because people’s opinions on names like I think the name Jordan is gender neutral but I know a lot of people in the south think it’s a girl name idk if thst makes sense
iron escarp
Hmm there are some baby name websites that have neutral options!
where? i've not had much luck
supple brook
like there is a huge list of gender neutral names but its only sortable by lette...
Ok so what I usually do for naming my dnd characters is thinking of a specific theme/meaning and then literally looking for names with that meaning, maybe if you have something particular in mind that's something you could do?
Wait let me check what they're called!
tacit patio
Do you want some name ideas here
iron escarp
i mean you can also dm me if its a bigger list, i dont wanna clog up the chat here too much
supple brook
You said nature/space stuff right?
iron escarp
Ok so what I usually do for naming my dnd characters is thinking of a specific t...
i mean thats what i do for my characters too its just not working the same way this time around ugh
supple brook
Ywah I guess it's harder for a real person than for a character haha
iron escarp
mhmh, especially because i've gotta start thinking of a legal name change at some point
supple brook
Nameberry is super good
You can put in a key word and it let's you filter it further
wintry monolith
Oooo
wintry monolith
harsh knot
that was literally me for the longest time
wintry monolith
mellow sand
I give the same answer but with maybe a bit more confidence.
graceful geyser
me
mellow sand
mellow sand
Iron club. A little forced but...
dry swift
i cant think of a weapon that starts with I
Iklwa
It's also known as an assegai, apparently
wintry monolith
Oooo
That looks badass
Found a thing earlier while browsing target. Both of these, under the Pink color, are the lesbian flag.
https://www.target.com/p/women-s-hooded-sweatshirt-universal-thread/-/A-81455976
https://www.target.com/p/women-s-tie-dye-long-sleeve-tiered-dress-universal-thread/-/A-81828184
brazen willow
I’m so happy
My (it’s complicated we haven’t put a label on it) drew us hugging and I love it
wicked jungle
Found a thing earlier while browsing target. Both of these, under the Pink color...
the blue dress kinda reminds me of the old vincian(/floric) flag? 🤔
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/lgbta/images/b/bf/C1c31a6a5cb184159f0a6bbcd465c9b8.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/220?cb=20200419184400
wicked jungle
why do those colors hurt my eyes?
the vincian blues or lesbian reds? 🤔
wintry monolith
the blue dress kinda reminds me of the old vincian(/floric) flag? 🤔
https://st...
This looks like (iirc) the MLM flag?
pearl sleet
tfw you tell someone in a chat that ur nb and go by they them
and someone says
hes an it
😐
humble tusk
I'll fight them, lemme at em
wintry monolith
Oh god. No. offers both hugs and to throw hands
pearl sleet
and someone else says
only if u r female
but idk so no
when you gave the definition of being nonbinary literally 1 min ago
wicked jungle
readies hands for throwing
wintry monolith
pearl sleet
i dont get humans 😩
and ty everyone
wicked jungle
pearl sleet
the struggle is real
wicked jungle
yeah sorry this happened to you love :c
wintry monolith
Alex is friend shaped and they are fantastic.
wicked jungle
pearl sleet
and then my therapist, as great as she is, told me to my face that we dont get to pick our names
like
what.
wicked jungle
sounds like the thing of "your name was given by your parents to you as a gift, be thankful" bs
sigh just a few more centuries and such toxic mindsets will hopefully be eradicated
pearl sleet
and both of my therapists are somewhat worried abt me bc I changed my name again...even tho the last time was a year ago
and i didnt feel like Jack fit me anymore
humble tusk
have they worked with trans/nonbinary patients before? name changes are like a staple of social transitioning 
wicked jungle
but until then we at least have each other to offer the moral support acceptance love and hugs (or fingerguns if you arent into hugs, consent is important, you are valid if you dont like hugs) and be safe with
wintry monolith
and then my therapist, as great as she is, told me to my face that we dont get t...
Guess all married women aren't allowed to change their last names then, hmm? /s
wicked jungle
and both of my therapists are somewhat worried abt me bc I changed my name again...
please dont let that make you feel guilty about your namechange. you feeling less comfortable with your name is valid. your name is about YOUR comfort. it's in the end he sound others need to make to get your attention so it's important that you like that sound.
Alex you are lovely. and you are just as wonderful and valid as before. you wanting to be called Alex is ok and not a problem, we respect your name change truly and whole-heartedly hug
pearl sleet
gdsflgijdfgdf bhdfg thank you 
pearl sleet
and they also said like
its confusing for everyone else
this isnt about everyone else
this is about how comfortable i am with my name maams
wicked jungle
amen alex
pearl sleet
im here to guide everyone correctly if they make a mistake but i dont get mad over things like that
wicked jungle
same with how your gender doesnt depend on what everybody else thinks. or on if you "pass" for others.
if you identify with being a woman, you are a woman.
if you identify with being nb, you are nb.
if you identify with being a man, you are man.
easy as that.
pearl sleet
aaaand one of them said that some folks are gonna leave me if i continuously change my name
like
wow okay
thats
kinda rude
its understandable but im not changing my name again any time soon
i really like this one
wicked jungle
those people are idiots for leaving you then, that's their mistake.
pearl sleet
dont get me wrong i love them both to bits but sometimes the things they say are just...rude and wrong
wicked jungle
yep
but yeah, better for you if you lose people who wouldnt accept or respect you anyways. you deserve only the best
pearl sleet
thank you all so much
im just
hh
im trying to be comfortable in my identity
wicked jungle
there will always be people who will love and accept you for who you are, with everything you come with
pearl sleet
i seriously dont need to hear that my friends are going to leave me or just call me something wrong during what im also going through rn
wicked jungle
thank you all so much
im just
hh
im trying to be comfortable in my identity
that's great love
wintry monolith
Alex is Alex and that's the best thing for them rn and if their name changes again for their comfort everyone else can shove it bc Alex, your comfort is important.
wicked jungle
we wont leave, no way ^^ and we'll respect your name and pronouns till the end of time because you're you. You're our friendshaped alex who goes by they/them rn and any changes to come are welcome. and we love you for who you are, easy as that
wintry monolith
wicked jungle
man raven i like you so much 🥺 you're like our nb overlord somehow
every single time i get uncomfy i just come here and see your memes and gifs and be happy again, thanks for that too! ;w;
pearl sleet
i had a friend who would always switch between names, being trans, and being cis all the time
while i loved and was behind them, it was like
every 1 or 2 weeks that they changed
wintry monolith
😳 😆 💛
cosmic basin
Damn I feel like it's not really my place to add anything to this, because I don't really know you and all, but I 100% agree with Marmy
pearl sleet
then they left me without warning over false rumors
wintry monolith
Heck
pearl sleet
point is
i dont wanna be like that
while trying to find my identity is healthy switching between being cis and nb every week or two without considering fluidity
thats not healthy
wintry monolith
Yeah ngl that person sounds genderflux/genderfluid af and either not knowledgeable or in denial.
wicked jungle
it's harder for some to find themselves. people's identity and emotions are fluid.
i remember being like that too back when i was like "am i a trans man? am i a cis woman?"
i just decided that names are not for me and neither is gender
(so hello everybody! i am idanöosdmaspdokas and i am nb 😊 )
pearl sleet
idk they were toxic so idk
anyways
yall have made me feel infinitely better and ily all
wintry monolith
pearl sleet
wicked jungle
well there will sadly always be toxic people even among the minorities ;-;
but i'm happy you have a happy place here! and ily2
wintry monolith
fingerguns
wicked jungle
https://tenor.com/view/roses-are-red-violets-are-blue-your-gender-is-valid-gende...
this is why you're our overlord 😂 🙇
twilit lake
I call doubt on that picture. The real kirby would have eaten that flag right away
wicked jungle
😂 valid
cosmic basin
Are you saying...
sharp jungle
But would it make him change colors
wicked jungle
it's just harder to animate kirb being all the lgbtq flags kirby-self
cosmic basin
This Kirby... is sus...?
twilit lake
Indeed, I cannot state otherwise, it's like 90% air and 10% murderous intent
Not too far from the average among us player I suppose
cosmic basin
a m o g u s
wicked jungle
a m o g u s
amogus, amog us, a mogus? o.o
wintry monolith
Heckin phone gif oao
wicked jungle
RAVEN WHAT 😂
wintry monolith
I LOOKED UP KIRBY RAINBOW
twilit lake
Fusion dance gone wrong
night loomBOT
Sovereign#3360 has been warned
sharp jungle
Ah rip. My bad.
wintry monolith
I found a really cool etsy shop and I am 👀
These look so fucking cool. https://www.etsy.com/shop/TattooedAndChained?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=528276177
wintry monolith
Gonna wait for the apron I ordered for Bear off of etsy to arrive first before ordering anything else. It has shipped and I am very excite
cosmic basin
Ooh that sounds interesting! In case you talked about it here, I completely missed it. What did you order? 🤩
wicked jungle
https://www.etsy.com/listing/509917610/non-binary-pendant-necklace-chainmail?ref=shop_home_active_52
this is so pretty 🥺 metal feathers of pride
wintry monolith
Yessss
wicked jungle
a bear? :o
cosmic basin
... I think I love that bear and I hope they're doing well
I hope the bear is successful in pursuing their banjo dreams
wicked jungle
have i awakened you 👀
wintry monolith
Ehehe. Bear's my SO, and does actually want to learn banjo, and likes to cook, so it's perfect.
I also want to get some kind of pan pride thing for him, but unsure what.
wicked jungle
maybe a pan pan?
cosmic basin
That would be so cool?!
iron escarp
have i awakened you 👀
it looks just enough like dragon scales
wicked jungle
there are some customizeable kitchenwares on etsy, so maybe if there's a pan with customizeable handle? 🤔
wintry monolith
I'd probably go for a tshirt or hoodie
iron escarp
i mean banjo's have shapes like a pan so maybe you could customize a pan flag design for it? like made out of vinyl or a large sticker of some kind
wicked jungle
https://www.etsy.com/listing/673013446/personalized-cake-pan-casserole-dish?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=customized+pans&ref=sr_gallery-2-26&organic_search_click=1 personalized cake pan? :D
wintry monolith
....oh. My god. Pan-jo
wicked jungle
maybe they allow for other main designs for example pan-colored birds, it'd be a funny idea
iron escarp
i mean redbubble has a bunch of fun pride theme designs i believe
i dont know which other sites might
charred needle
Anyone here speak German
du kannst nicht "Geschlecht" ohne "schlecht" buchstabieren 
blissful granite
There's a room of people who speak German in #deutsch
charred needle
yeah but its a non-binary thing
blissful granite
Unfortunately, I do not. I can read Spanish or Italian.
supple brook
du kannst nicht "Geschlecht" ohne "schlecht" buchstabieren <:r__girl_cool:774067...
Ahaha yeah someone translated it to "you can't spell gender without bad" and honestly?
pearl sleet
I just had the most refreshing conversation with a cisgender person about gender identities
They dont quite understand it as a cisgender person but they show the utmost respect, treat me as a human, and are supportive of me and everyone else who is not cis
Which felt absolutely incredible to read
And I feel all good inside now
Ah, that was just amazing
So I just want yall to know that there are indeed really good cis friends out there who will be behind you even if they dont quite understand!
iron escarp
that's beautiful, really. the fact that they show the utmost respect and are supportive despite not understanding it themselves gives me hope that the future will be more generally accepting
pearl sleet
I know!
charred needle
we love a good ally
wicked jungle
du kannst nicht "Geschlecht" ohne "schlecht" buchstabieren <:r__girl_cool:774067...
i love you.
charred needle
wicked jungle
it's so weird to get happy by the smallest insignificant things
one of my students called me "sir" today and i was pretty happy to not be called "miss" the whole time, is it weird?
wicked jungle
Ahaha yeah someone translated it to "you can't spell gender without bad" and hon...
how about "you cant spell gender without end"? pretty far fetched but eh?
charred needle
one of my students called me "sir" today and i was pretty happy to not be called...
euphoria 
wicked jungle
euphoria <:happyhey:829895058584371201>
faint jacinth
I'm pumped for eurovision this year 😂
potent sedge
Release date when
wicked jungle
Release date when
Eurovision: Dates: Tue, May 18, 2021 – Sat, May 22, 2021 😎
twilit lake
The city got a bunch of decorations for the event
brazen willow
Yknow that gay momment when your pan friend tells you she loves you and you’re not sure if she means as a friend or like more
Cause it happened to me and I don’t wanna ask and make it weird if she means platonically
iron escarp
that's the worst situation to be in awh
harsh knot
mood
wintry monolith
iron escarp
the fact that lady dimitrescu is so much taller than heisenberg makes it extra funny
wild current
Honestly tho tru
twilit lake
Next up, the disturbingly dangerous combination of putting a step ladder on a hoverboard to bridge the gap
radiant tundra
I got my gc2b binder yesterday and I’m trying it out today!!!
radiant tundra
I’m not an expert by any means on how it is supposed to fit, but I think it fits well
iron escarp
I got my gc2b binder yesterday and I’m trying it out today!!!
thats great! im so happy for you!
wintry monolith
I’m not an expert by any means on how it is supposed to fit, but I think it fits...
If it hurts, take it off asap.
It will probably be snug, but should not dig in.
It will not make you flat as a board flat, and those that claim it can be dangerously tight.
Personally, mine feels like a good hug - not offputtingly loose, and not crushing.
Oh! You also want to make sure that ||nipples|| are not pointing down or squished into a weird position
If you feel very very sleepy like you need a nap after putting a binder on, take it off, you're passing out
Never ever EVER sleep in a binder
And the 8 hour limit? Is serious
wicked jungle
If you feel very very sleepy like you need a nap after putting a binder on, take...
very big pirates of the caribean corsett scene vibes eh
wintry monolith
Don't go above 8hours
Okay so. Elizabeth's corset should never have been tightened that much. Normal wear corsets were made to be moved in.
wicked jungle
yep, still iconic moment ngl
wintry monolith
Ye
wicked jungle
how do you do it with the 8h limit btw?
i almost never have a day where i am outside for less than 8h, and work often goes over the 8h mark with the chitchat with coworkers or commute or lunch breaks inbetween
wintry monolith
I love love love this channel, this vid is about corsets and the wear of them. https://youtu.be/J0iLJ4TIjto
wicked jungle
tbf i dont wear binders since they dont really do anything and make me more uncomfortable honestly but still curious
oh i love corset-related chanels so much
wintry monolith
So personally I wouldn't be able to follow that time limit on the daily, 8hrs work, hour lunch, hour-ish transit total+waiting for bus time. So I don't try and risk it.
My advice would be bring a sports bra with to change to.
Another thing is that if you wear a binder for over 8 hours, gotta take it off once you're home, and want to not wear it the next day so your ribs and spine have time to decompress and stretch out and breathe deep.
radiant tundra
@wintry monolith thank you so much for the advice
wild current
Also never try and put it on wet yall pretty sure I cracked a rib doing that
It rolls up and the tightness can increase exponentially
iron escarp
Also never try and put it on wet yall pretty sure I cracked a rib doing that
👁️ 👁️ i thought that was common knowledge like the fact ur not supposed to like sleep in ur binder n stuff
wild current
Didnt sleep in it never have
iron escarp
like i just instantly worried about you because of what you said
cuz binder related injuries tend to be pretty intense or at least bring like a lot of pain with them when they're not major things
wild current
Nah didn't wear while asleep just got impatient and tried to put it on while I was still damp it didn't go well and I cant wear anything tight on my chest for awhile
iron escarp
i know how that feels
wild current
I mean Im like way too poor to get surgery but Im nooot really suppsoed to be wearing binders at all because I have asthma and scoliosis (lower not upper back) I think if you have any chest issues or spine issues you are absolutely not supposed to wear a binder
iron escarp
I also have asthma so in the end me getting a binder that didn't fit me as tightly as I was expecting might have been for the best
I only wear it with suits because it does its job good enough to make my chest less noticeable in them
And for the rest I just wear very airy and loose fitting clothes
wild current
Stuggling to look for airy tops that are androgynous
wintry monolith
Button downs?