#An easy way to add pvp...

259 messages Β· Page 1 of 1 (latest)

neat sigil
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Imo pvp is not needed in this game at all...

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Sea of Thieves or new incoming Wildgate can help you with that...
But this game is about ship managment and teamplay...
Well I don't think pvp is a good idea for this game...

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But it's just my opinion... Devs should decide what they want to add...

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So Wildgate is for you then...

mystic fiber
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If I remember correctly, devs said that it's a huge technical challenge to have 2 players ship at the same time.

Also, Wildgate is a better game for those who want pvpve

floral crater
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#common-questions message
As stated there they have no plan to work on PvP for this title

Which is kind of a shame in my eyes but I 100% understand
Full coop titles are good too

neat sigil
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This game is just not about pvp...

floral crater
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yup and thats alright 😌

vapid oyster
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You do at least get hit markers when you nail your teammates.

steel spindle
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I can understand this method of adding pvp. It would be cool, but adds SO MUCH development time

mystic fiber
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You don't need it, just go play wildgate

dawn edge
crimson locust
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go play something else.

crimson locust
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lovely reaction from someone with a lovely name bragging about all their lovely hours in SoT. SoT is how they market this. the only similarity is in how ship systems are managed. Its closer to FTL than SoT.

As everyone has suggested, go play wildgate. its, and this is coming from a fellow sot player, what SoT arena SHOULD have been.

ionic ferry
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I think it would be a funny thing to do in the hub

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Which would be fun

tiny jay
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Please NO PVP. This game does not need PVP.

Im excited for this game explicitly bcuz theres NO PVP.

ionic ferry
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Jeez was mostly just a suggestion of a fun little Easter egg or dumb thing to do in the lobby on my part

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Otherwise I agree no pvp

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An example of what I mean is atlyss

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The game is a pve game but has a silly pvp area for the fun of it and it ain't balanced at all just some silly fun

tiny jay
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Ur fundamentally misunderstanding how game developement works. Anything they spend time on is time taken away from the core game. I dont want PVP in the game for several reasons, even if i never play it it will still negatively effect the game in the following ways

  1. It would take months to develope that level of PVP, this is months taken away from core PVE features I would want to see
  2. it attracts ppl who exclusively want PVP and gives them the wrong impression about the game, potentially increasing dev pressure to add more PVP items or bug fix PVP, removing time from core PVE features.
  3. it can lower steam reviews for ppl looking for a different experience, thus lowering sales.

Not every game needs PVP. If you want PVP then go play COD or PUBG or any other game that has PVP. Leave our PVE games alone

lapis wigeon
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"leave our games alone" is a little rude
you could just point them towards modding communities

tiny jay
lapis wigeon
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ah, im blind then

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apolocheese

dawn edge
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the people who want pvp want to play against other people who want pvp

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it isnt fun to play against people who dont want to fight back

tiny jay
red loom
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@dawn edge

lapis wigeon
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ben moment

dawn edge
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ngl you look like you are talking out of your ass,

  1. yes pvp takes a while to develop but you can say that about literally anything, but also its not as if pvp is a completely new innovation. it is highly flushed out and ways to implement exist and it wouldnt be pioneering a completely new idea
  2. again, hypothetical. you capture a mixed audience of people who enjoy both.
  3. or it increases steam reviews as it attracts a broader audience
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your points against pvp are all what ifs and like your own distaste to it

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the devs did say it wasn't within the scope of the game so fair enough, if they don't want to add it they obviously have the right not too

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no one here asking for pvp is asking to play wildgate. there is a platform here that looks super cool and feels good already, so people obviously want to play it. wildgate isn't a style that looks appealing to me personally, so thats why we are curious about adding pvp

red loom
dawn edge
red loom
dawn edge
lapis wigeon
red loom
lapis wigeon
red loom
lapis wigeon
tiny jay
dawn edge
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lol

red loom
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πŸ€“

dawn edge
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and clearly have never touched software in your life 😭

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not to be insulting, but there is literally mountains and mountains of implementations of pvp through out gaming

lapis wigeon
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i just want an option to shoot my friends with a shotty for the lulz
considering we can already do negative damage to friends, positive damage woudldnt be hard to code

red loom
lapis wigeon
dawn edge
dawn edge
dawn edge
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Bro gave a thumbs down lol

mystic fiber
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Even if it's an option, pvp will not be well implemented as the game is not design for and players will 100% make bad review about it.

I thinking about it like you want a Indian restaurant make sushi because there rice is very good.

terse pendant
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Personally this game isn’t designed to support a robust pvp system. Ideally it would be like sea of thieves, but since its mission based invasion or pre agreed matches would be the most realistic here. There is always an option to disable invasions like in Dying Light but again, the system isn’t designed to have that feature.

lapis wigeon
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Invasions would be very cool imo, always a fun part of games that have them (on both sides)
but currently, if you look at everything a player can do.....
a knowledgable player could just troll/sabotage the shit out of their opponent with no risk

sacred osprey
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The problem with attracting more players with pvp, is the people who do want it will demand more attention on pvp and split the players and Devs. It's happened to far too many other games, it really doesn't need to happen here. Not every game needs pvp.

mystic fiber
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The only way I imagine to have what the OP want is a mod.

Or jump ship 2 ^^

dawn edge
dawn edge
lapis wigeon
dawn edge
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I think making it not an option and explicitly making pvp a like queue system would avoid the argument of "people want more"

knotty mantle
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Just play a different game

dawn edge
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like just using the existing ship and combat platform in an empty void

knotty mantle
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Not everything needs PvP

dawn edge
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why don't you take the stick out of your ass and not queue pvp then 😊

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like you aren't contributing anything by saying play a different game

knotty mantle
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I'd rather the developers focused on the game they created, which is coop PvE and not have to waste time on balancing and other features

lapis wigeon
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look at everything a player can do

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seriously

dawn edge
knotty mantle
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The game straight up is not made or balanced for PvP, it makes 0 sense for them to waste time to add the mode and make it so it's actually workable/fun

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It was easy for games like Sea of Thieves where it was PvPvE to make a PvE only mode. The game was made upfront with both in mind, but other games where PvP was added later or even made at the same time, you get a lot of janky rebalancing. The game already is balanced different with 1-4 players, there would be an additional layer of balancing for PvP

dawn edge
knotty mantle
lapis wigeon
dawn edge
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im talking about the like

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actual movement/guns/world interactions

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everything is responsive and smooth they've done a great job on the base game

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if I could fight someone else it would be cool

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some games just feel bad for pvp

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like helldivers doesn't feel right for it if ykwim

knotty mantle
knotty mantle
dawn edge
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im not sure if I can necessarily describe but but have you felt the difference between csgo and cs2/valorant

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in terms of responsiveness/movement

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the game feels snappy and not floaty

knotty mantle
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But those games are made for PvP up front

dawn edge
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yes

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you're like

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im answering your question dude

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😭

lapis wigeon
knotty mantle
dawn edge
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that would be funny

knotty mantle
grave spire
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its pritty simple if Pvp isnt in the scope for the development it will not get in the game.
If you want it or not doesnt matter.

knotty mantle
grave spire
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tbh my opinion to pvp is that there are enought pvp games and for example pvp was one of the things that i didnt liked on sea of thieves because if you have limited time you dont stand a chance

knotty mantle
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It's like being mad at tennis for not having an archery component in it

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because it would be really cool

knotty mantle
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There's something awful about working an hour+ on a really hard quest just to be sunk and lose it all to PvP nerds

grave spire
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Yep and if you look how long it took for sea of thieves to get saver seas we shouldnt expect a smaller studio doing some similar stuff faster xD

knotty mantle
lapis wigeon
tiny jay
knotty mantle
grave spire
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Is squash solo some kind of pve tennis πŸ€”

knotty mantle
tiny jay
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I love that all the same arguments i made originally are just being remade over and over is various different ways and the OP and his one friend is just like "nah invalid"

lapis wigeon
knotty mantle
dusty light
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No PVP is the reason my friends and I are playing this game instead of Wildgate; fwiw

knotty mantle
tiny jay
knotty mantle
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Same with Helldivers when it came out

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although there is griefing... but that's a whole other issue

tiny jay
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I hope the massive amount of downvotes on the post shows the devs that we do not want PVP in the game.

dawn edge
tiny jay
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OPs friend is back everyone

dawn edge
dawn edge
dawn edge
knotty mantle
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I'm at the very least pleased that a game like wildgate is coming out which is specifically designed for PvP, plus it has weird animals if you're into that

dawn edge
knotty mantle
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I mean , it does look like confetti rainbow vomit

dawn edge
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yeah lol

knotty mantle
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Huh you know, other than style, it's pretty much what i would think jump ship PvP would look like

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or play like

dawn edge
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i think at the most basic level its ship v ship, you enter queue with a wager of credits and get matched, differing maps from asteroid fieldsto just more open abyss so different ship manuevering styles have to be used. ship health just has to be increased along with components, and bording comes with the goal of sabotaging components, entering ship would need to be pretty restricted, possibly quicktime to open/control airlocks. i think range of things a boarder can do in the ship is almost generally limited as well maybe to killing players, i mean its kinda similar in idea to getting boarded in SOT, you need an explosive to do real damage

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when i say components i mean outside comps like guns and what not

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thruster pipes

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again i feel as if this just has like good components to pvp, destroyable components, responsive gunplay etc

knotty mantle
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Ship combat is kind of basic though, i mean which is why i love it

dawn edge
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the main thing is like, maybe for example SOT pvp at time can feel floaty or unresponsive, its not very "direct", while currently pve with bots feels good

knotty mantle
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if i want complicated, i do ED

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Thinking of sea of thieves

dawn edge
knotty mantle
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it is like 100000% of the time always easier to board and killt he crew than it is to sink a ship

dawn edge
knotty mantle
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all i can think of is people just setting the ship to cruise control and manually fly towards enemy ships/grapple and have at it

dawn edge
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yeah thats why SOT is horrible sometimes i played for the first time in maybe a year and our first tier 5 reaper combat was someone who just ran the whole time

lapis wigeon
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even with mat limits

supple canopy
# tiny jay OPs friend is back everyone

Is it a friend agreeing with them and wanting a toxic element to the game or is it an alt account they're using to try getting their toxic element added to the game?

dawn edge
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yall are tweaking lol

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ah yes

supple canopy
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Yall?

dawn edge
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my alt account/friend who i definitely have spoken to are conspiring to get pvp added

knotty mantle
supple canopy
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You're the one chomping at the bit wanting to harm others. You're literally begging to have the ability to hurt others. That's fairly toxic.

dawn edge
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😭

lapis wigeon
dawn edge
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yeah actually @lapis wigeon @digital swan and me are all the same person

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also im in this forum because i didnt want to open another one was tihis seems to be the pvp discussion form

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or mainly idea

lapis wigeon
dawn edge
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because it will probably not exist

dawn edge
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their solution to it is impossible to find too the wind bag or whatever lol

mystic fiber
dawn edge
sacred osprey
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Sorry I forgot, you do already have pvp in the lobby. There's a ball and two nets, enjoy!

wispy mortar
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@dawn edge there actually is PVP in this game. It's the pilot's ability to jump when their crew is off ship or out of seats. πŸ˜› Or, I guess you could 'PVP' by intentionally not helping your friends up if they get downed or hit by the stun-bot. You might not get invited back to play with people, and will likely get blacklisted by the overall community...but you can certainly troll other players if that's what you want to do.

dawn edge
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lol that isnt what i want to do though because thats toxic

wispy mortar
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PVP in general is toxic, I don't understand your point.

dawn edge
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extreme agree to disagree

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that would mean every competitive sport ever is toxic

wispy mortar
dawn edge
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competition when agreed to by both parties isn't toxic until one side starts actually acting in poor taste like shit talking

wispy mortar
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Ah, so you're asking for special PVP missions wherein you play against another crew? okay that makes more sense

dawn edge
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yes not like invasion based pvp lol

wispy mortar
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there was someone else asking for friendly fire, I thought that's like what you were suggesting

dawn edge
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haha no

wispy mortar
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See I could get behind a PVP mission type. Then it's always voluntary by all involved parties. And I could see some folks having fun with that. But I wouldn't want there to be PVE elements mixed in.

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I would argue though, that since this game is tied to the roguelite aspects, there wouldn't be much to loot. Everyone would start without anything. Nothing to really lose (since we lose everything after missions anyhow) and not much to gain, aside from maybe unlocking ship components which they may have and that you might not. But even that would be very shallow and short lived.

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Unless you just gave a flat credit/exp reward for a win. But then you have a hard time balancing that vs PVE missions. PVP could be super quick, thereby out performing PVE missions too much. Or, PVP could turn into a turtle and last for hours, falling far behind the rewards for PVE missions.

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I suppose you could add risk/reward by making it such that if you steal someone's upgraded component and win, that you get your components upgraded to that level. And the team which loses has their component reduced to level 0.

wispy mortar
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I mean, to be fair, this game is marketed as PVE co-op without PVP. So most of the people in chat are those which expect to see what the game says it is. It's not that some wouldn't play PVP but that just not what the design is. I do agree that it would be a fun platform for PVP'ers to do, but you'd have to respect to original design and allow people to play the game as intended without PVP forced upon them. That's all.

knotty mantle
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Understandable, but I'd rather they use their resources to develop the current game and not add a mode that was never on their books

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Yeah, probably, but I just don't understand why there's always a crowd that thinks pvp needs to exist in every game.

Wildgate is pretty much jump ship/void crew but specifically designed for PvP from the ground up. It would feel weird to ask those devs to add an entire pve game mode

Edit: nvm wildgate is PvPvE

dawn totem
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Ye I think it'd be especialy cool to have a quick match que where you can go ship v ship or like squad v sqadruan to maybe idk attack each others freghters

runic wadi
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Developers clearly stated No PvP.

short forge
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It's pointless discussion. The Devs already stated that PvP will never be a part of the game. So they probably look at this discussion title, shrug and throw it away. This whole post is pointless

knotty mantle
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Yes. That's why a huge % of us are buying the game. Specifically because it's PvE only. Not PvE with optional opt-in PvP.

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The point I was trying to make about the crowd comment is that the game was specifically made, designed, and advertised to be PvE co-op. To me, it feels disrespectful to ask developers to add something they never planned to or arguably don't want to. That's not their intent or vision.

I don't go the dark soul/elden ring developers and ask for a economic engine city builder. That's what asking for PvP for a purely PvE game feels like to me. It's a whole different genre.

runic wadi
knotty mantle
runic wadi
knotty mantle
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I said it feels disrespectful, whether or not they think so is a whole other issue.

runic wadi
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You do not seem to understand PvE purists crowd. Word "PvP" is a literal hate speech for us. We dont want to hear it even being mentioned πŸ˜„

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Yeah, and then I grew up

knotty mantle
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Yeah, not a bad thing. They realized what they were doing wrong and matured

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You can have toxic PvE players. I mean look at MMOs 🀣.

runic wadi
knotty mantle
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No I understand that. But inherently creating the mode takes resources. Then people will ask for more/adjustments for PvP only.

runic wadi
knotty mantle
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If only it was that easy, PvP would be much more pleasant or some folks believe the trash talking is part of the sportsmanship.

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Yeah, cool that they're down with modding

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The whole point a lot of people are making and myself is that the genre of this game PvE. Asking to change it/add something it's not doesn't make sense

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This goes in hand with people note liking the roguelite element of missions

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Starting with 0 materia + no equipment carry over

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For me and it seems many others asking is the problem, not whether it would be fun, if that makes sense

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Re: my comment about it feeling disrespectful

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I mean the fact that you keep calling people at as safer seas players as an insult isn't helping your case for asking for PvP.

runic wadi
knotty mantle
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Good thing there's already a solution, which is the devs will never add PvP

mystic fiber
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The only solution for pvp is by mods.

Devs will not shoot on their feet by creating a "optional" pvp mod.

knotty mantle
runic wadi
knotty mantle
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Modders, too lazy to make their own game so they ride on the back of others to add features they want 🀣

knotty mantle
mystic fiber
knotty mantle
# mystic fiber It's mean

Yeah, I'm being a snarky ass. Sorry T_T. I'm generally a vanilla purist. I can't be bothered to find mods to make a game the I want it to look and play. I just play a game i like and if i don't like it I stop playing instead of trying to mod it.

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Legit respect to modders who figure out how to do all that, and double points for those who also create new and additional assets

mystic fiber
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"Long war" was my first big mod I have install for xcom ennemy unknow and it's enhance the game so well

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on the discord of a full pve game, who could have guess ? ^^

runic wadi
mystic fiber
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oh, he have delete his message

mystic fiber
runic wadi
mystic fiber
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btw for me "gg" mean for "good game" and make no sens to me to tell this after a stomp. it's not a good game when there is no match or you have a troll on your team

runic wadi
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When you win, its sure as hell sounds condescening to the team that is lost, if you say "gg" to the opposing team, that is

mystic fiber
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Oh, I didn't notice that OP have delete ALL his messages

knotty mantle
mystic fiber
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I agree.

I think that would like a pvp game with the same jump ship gameplay is valide. but I was not agree of he's implementation.

knotty mantle
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That game, as far as I can tell, does not exist yet

mystic fiber
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maybe on "jump ship 2 : confrontation" πŸ˜„

wispy mortar
# runic wadi Kinda get a laugh out of me, being on such high horse with "you were the problem...

To be fair, I own my "carebear" status! I just prefer to build up and support my friends, rather than to tear them down or make them feel "less than". That's just who I am as a person. I used to be very competitive, but I didn't like the person I became when I was focused on competition. I was petty, underhanded, and would do anything to win. It brought out all the worst traits in me. But whenever I mentor, help, support, and overall cooperate with people, I get the "warm fuzzies" and just overall feel great! I don't do it for any sort of appreciation either, it is its own reward. And overall I think it makes it such that I end up making more friends and have better friendships as a result.

dusk cipher
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If PvP came to this game, I probably wouldn't continue playing it. PvP doesn't interest me

knotty mantle
idle coyote
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sorry for not having read all the messages (and OP's posts which have been deleted) but adding a PVP mode to a game like this will eventually lead to it becoming a primarily PVP game with a minor PVE aspect. If a game offers PVP it will always be the primary thing 95% of people will play. I don't want to see this game turn into basic FPS slop ;-;

tiny jay
tiny jay
# idle coyote sorry for not having read all the messages (and OP's posts which have been delet...

The TL;DR of this whole long chat boiled down to this:

Almost everyone do not want PVP in the game for many reasons, but the highlighted ones are

People (me included) who dont want PVP argued:

  1. it takes development time to add to the game, this is time that could and should be spent on things the majority of the community wants, like ships and ai and enemies, NOT on things the community doesn't want like PVP.
  2. It will attract players for the PVP, which will mean either the Devs need to spend more time on PVP to make PVP good, balanced and fixed OR if they spend no time on PVP after implementation then it will lower review scores.
  3. When you add PVP to the game it fundamentally changes how the game is viewed. From the outside you cannot tell if its a primary PVP game or a primary PVE game or PVPVE game. This will disincentivize PVE ONLY players from wanting the game (even if PVP is optional).
  4. It will change how the game is played, if rewards on PVP are trash then the PVP players will lower their review of the game. If the PVP rewards are good then it forces PVE players to play PVP or they will fall behind.
  5. Generally PVP is pretty toxic, and they dont want that toxicity in the community or in the game.
  6. PVP is harder to balance and would add a ton to dev time, making features take way longer to come out for the core PVE experience.
  7. Adding PVP makes the game more generic and less special. It would feel like any other PVP game.
  8. Plenty of PVE only games are successful. Like HellDivers 2 and Void Crew, so we dont need PVP to make the game 'good' or successful.

People (NOT ME) who WANT PVP argued:

  1. Its not that hard to add to the game, a semi quote from one of them was "Its not that hard, its not like they are designing PVP from the ground up. They have many resources and other teams to pull from."
  2. "I think it would be cool to have PVP"
  3. It would bring in more players as the game would 'appeal to a broader audience'
  4. Other PVP games are successful, so they should add PVP to this game.

My opinion:
-It should be noted the pro PVP person making most of the arguments also kept calling everyone "Carebears, Safer Seas players" and other derogatory PVE player names which is the "kind of attitude and view is precisely why people don't like PvP or in general competitive players if you are not a competitive person"
-The Pro PVP have since deleted everything they posted after realizing that calling ppl names reinforces PVE players opinions that PVP players are toxic.

IF I AM MISSING ANYTHING OR MISSTATED ONE OF YOUR POINTS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW AND ILL FIX IT.

knotty mantle
runic wadi
dawn edge
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i really appreciate how one pro pvp person who was being a dick summed up the whole pvp side lol

tiny jay
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I know some of the points were like "it could be fun if XXXX" but thats in point 2

steel spindle
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I personally am a very competitive person who loves the idea of PVP in general and certain PVP games. However, PVP does not necessarily make a game good and I love plenty of other PvE games. There is plenty of challenge to be had in the PvE genre that PVP type players can and should acknowledge/appreciate.
Sure, I think it'd be really cool if this game had PVP! Would it be a really cool concept? Absolutely! Does it need to happen? No! Should it happen? Probably not in this case (for various reasons that most people have already brought up)

TLDR: Let the devs cook

runic wadi
# steel spindle I personally am a very competitive person who loves the idea of PVP in general a...

I prefer to have separate games for separate strokes. If I ever would want to play PvP again, I would go play Lol, Marvel Rivals, Tarkov, Mortals online 2, Eve Online, basically any PvP centric game. When developers add PvP as an afterthough to mainly PvE game its always bad, see Warframe or FFXIV. PvP is pretty much dead there and noone cares about it.

Also people want PvP like football matches, equal teams playing on the map etc etc, when I say PvP I mean all out war, with spies, tactics, striking when the enemy is weakest, etc.

That story when the guy was spy for 8 years in enemy corporation in Eve Online, and then turned off shields on their Titan in their most important battle - Now thats PvP.

steel spindle
runic wadi
steel spindle
runic wadi