Please remove every "Rogue" aspect

[hard smelt]

If we collected it, we keep it, we are hoarders

[solar girder]

Nah 🙂

[fringe silo]

This is going to be a very decisive issue... What should we keep jump to jump, and what should we have "mysteriously disappear"

[solar girder]

Yeah, I'll agree that maybe too much does disappear at the moment and it's not communicated very clearly initially what stays and what doesn't, but I really like the rogue-like idea, especially with the artifacts

[zenith canopy]

We might experiment a bit with reducing some rogue aspects a bit since it's a common critique we get It wont go away entirely, thats for sure

[fringe silo]

I'd say that rouges I like are ones that vary the way you play based on what you get through the run. Like Hades, these power ups mean I dash a ton, or I'm ranged now I guess. Be curious to see in this game if we have builds and artifacts that say, "Forget ship guns, people on the out side with rocket launchers are guns now!" Or... "It's time to be slow and bulky and just ram things I don't like!"

[next folio]

i think some of the rogue elements should be lessened tbh imo, I like keeping stuff throughout runs and returning feeling like ive accomplished and colelcted some good stuff

[fringe silo]

Naturally! All rogue games these days have persistent progression. Having a stronger base ship at the start of runs through upgrades is one. I suppose I want to avoid that we all have a "meta" build we just start and end with and see mid mission loot is lame and not worth opening. Right now I get excited opening the chest for a new exciting part for my ship.

[somber stratus]

Maybe since we are not keeping the items / weapons, give some extra credits for found items. A monetary value would be better than nothing.

[quiet tangle]

They mentioned they would add that

[inner birch]

I think it would make sense to keep what you place on the ship shelves. what ever is on blue floor in crafting area gets sold at the end. Also would hit a "decoration itch" to get that armory packed

[polar notch]

I think having more locations and longer missions would fix it. I like the idea of ship components and upgrades carrying over but guns, stims, shields, pizza slices shouldn’t. Maybe implement a feature where you can start a run with a loadout and have mk.1 weapons but it would be unbalanced to be able to keep everything we get imo

Maybe even two “expedition modes” one that is run based and has the premade loadouts, one that is more permanent and keeps items left on the ship. Different mission types for each? Idk I might be rambling at this point haha.

[sweet moon]

i love the rogue aspects, think it would be too easy to keep things like artifacts or weapons across journeys, I think the ship upgrades/components staying and being auto unlocked is generous enough and a good balance

I could see a shop where some weapons are available for perma unlock for a ridiculous price, or a shop where weapons are available but only for the run your about to do could work if people really find it an issue

just remember its a demo, so there will be a lot of other stuff to unlock permanently in the main game

[sour smelt]

I would give a different kind of suggestion and maybe a money sink. Give the possibility to spend some credits to start with certain things

Would remain a rogue like game but would force you to play harder difficulties in order to maintain some of the things that you want to keep

[fringe silo]

I'm starting to think this can't be too much of a rogue because there's not enough "jumps" to vary the "builds". Imagine playing FTL where you only had to do 4 jumps. Or Hades where you only have to clear 4 rooms. Only 3 god boons? Is that really going to change things?
Given we have a campaign to get to the center of the galaxy and we're going to go from sector to sector to unlock components... I am leaning that this game should probably pivot to a multiple save file game and you and your buds are just playing a co-op campaign. At the end you can unlock a new ship so if you want to do the whole journey again but under a new shiny ship that has different things then you can.

[wraith ingot]

I like starting from scratch, but most of my friends have all said something like "what happened to all our stuff?" so I think the game could stand to give some kind of feedback or telegraph the roguelike aspect a bit better.

Maybe the coalition sells all your gear for you when you get back, and you get a small commission (materia) for your next run. Or even a small amount of bonus XP or credits or something.

[tiny lava]

I wouldn't mind being able to pre purchase guns. I like the snipers, a friend likes the shotgun. I spend a heap of credits to 'unlock' a starter sniper on ship, but slow progression upgrades means I still want the tasty Mk3 from loot drops.
Same for suit upgrades, leading to player builds and specialisations, not just ship builds.

[radiant delta]

If people do not like the aspect but others do, you could add a setting for the host to disable the rogue-like system in game. I feel that this would make it A LOT better for everyone involved.

both sides can get what they want

[junior solar]

Interesting idea. I personally like the rogue-like system. I do hope we will have the option to craft more weapons in mission though. The Side Clip is fine, but not a favorite of mine. I'd rather craft a Javelin; even if it is only MK 0.

[sly yoke]

what if at the end of each mission any leftover resources and gear at least gets converted to credits? and maybe we can use credits to either buy a gun (that stays past missions) and credits to upgrade the gun? or credits to upgrade/change the default gun?

[distant estuary]

This is already something they're thinking about doing actually

The leftovers to credits

[sick escarp]

I like the idea of being able to buy certain useful things like a repair kit or two. Like in sea of thieves where you can buy a cannonball crate to start the session.

[cosmic wren]

paying for usually uncraftable items might be a neat niche for that
weapons you can't synth, support items, etc
ROR2 lunar bazaar type deal

[inner birch]

Yeah, since its host based game it would actually be reasonable to do

[dusky nest]

I am ok with some of the loot being temp, but it needs to be per game session, not mission. That's my complaint about it.

[heavy tulip]

I've mentioned this in other places several times, but I 100% would like the Rogue aspects to be toggled on/off based on the host. I like the reset sometimes, but other times I'd like to be able to collect artifacts and small arms and upgrade them like we do the ship components. I'd love to be able to have/try different 'builds' for fun. Or to be able to guarantee that I at least have 1 mk3 ( or otherwise upgraded ) Javelin to start my missions. Or even a missile launcher or personal rail gun to start (since they're consumable, and not reloadable anyhow).

Basically, I want the option for both styles of gameplay to not just suit the group of friends I play with, but also how I feel like playing the game on a particular day.

[inner birch]

As far as I understand game play loop will be "Go from the outscirts to the center of the galaxy" So I dont mind stuff like artifacts and onfoot guns being reset between those ones, but not between individual missions, yeah. But options for host to toggle this on/off is the best idea so far, we've collectively came up with 🙂

[crisp sage]

I think the stuff that goes away should generate bonus credits / XP if it does not already

[sick escarp]

That's a good compromise. It would be nice to be able to log on and do a couple of quick missions to gain some materia in order to equip your ship for a bigger mission.

[inner birch]

All I want is same ground equipment progression as ship components progression. I am one of the people who grinded ED Odyssey to fully engineer all 3 suits and every weapon lol.

[dire lance]

I kinda like that you start all missions from nothing. I'm pretty sure if you keep your stuff the game is gone be too easy.

[empty pond]

I like the shelf space. I think if you can store it, you keep it. If you can't store it then it disappears. (I am also a hoarder and would like to keep more things)

[mental sorrel]

Another way is an option at the end of the mission to sell everything on the ship for credit or not.

[inner birch]

Yup, pretty much what I have suggested. You store it - its saved, you place it on blue floor - its sold for money.

[shadow wren]

Maybe have a "permanent" slots starting with one then maxing at 3 but hard to obtain space for so you won't able to keep everything but able to keep a few favourites including guns, healing items and maybe other potential things

[dusky nest]

So in game there are different versions of the weapons, it would be nice if you could find permanent blue prints that would allow you to craft each type during missions given you have the materia. That way even if you start a mission with nothing you could at least build what you want after you find enough materia. Also adds to the balance game in which you need to decide if you want to use the resources on keeping your ship in shape or what not.

[inner birch]

Yeah, that would be great, same as for ship parts. We keep ship parts, we at least should get to keep 1 weapon and upgrade it, to have it

[ashen swallow]

How would you balance having a Tier 3 weapon? It's pretty easy to find ammo crates or even just make them

Also, the only suggestion post more controversial than the PvP one is this one 🤣

[inner birch]

wait for it, wait for it, I have something for this one "Not a PvP game, who cares about balance" 😄

[ashen swallow]

Helldivers overcorrected and made all weapons bad instead of overpowered 🤣

[inner birch]

Have you played after Buffdivers patch? All weapons are overpowered and all enemies are nerfed 😄

[ashen swallow]

Yeah it's at a much nicer spot now

I do think the way stratagems work could be the possible solution to light up the rogue element of missions

[inner birch]

I've mentioned in other thread about sector liberation mechanics from the robots in JumpShip. would be sick

[ashen swallow]

Use credits to buy/unlock weapon schematics and give the players a limited slot and choice to bring something at the start of a new mission. I would prefer not having it at all, but it's not the worst compromise

[ashen swallow]

oooo community based goals

[inner birch]

Since its host based game I was thinking host galaxy specifically gets liberated, etc. Or yeah, 1 big shared galaxy, that everyone works toward liberating, like in HD1 more or less

[mental sorrel]

The way I see to keep a small part of loot:

• after a mission, all your loots and weapons (not artefact) are on an unload ship floor in the hangars.
• any players can fill his inventory from those loots
• you start the next mission with this inventory you pickup
• all the loot you leave is convert to bonus currency/xp

[distant estuary]

Helldivers is infinitely better and more fun now. Those dark days are gladly behind us now.

[distant estuary]

All we really need is possibly a slight boost to starting material, and the extra loot being turned into credits and xp at end. One dev also mentioned possibly being able to find ship ammo/health as loot too, which would be very nice.

[mental sorrel]

You are probably right about what's the game "need".

I just feel it's could be nicer after a mission to see on the hangar all your loot you scavenge from the last run and It's introduce better the fact that you can't keep it all.

[distant estuary]

They should just add something in that specifically mentions the group paying us for whet we find

Would quell a lot of this I think

[ashen swallow]

They did mention end of mission loot will be converted to credits to some degree

So that's nice

I will concede being able to bring a Tier 0 weapon of your choice would be fun, but being able to carry over an upgraded/higher tier weapon would potentially just be too OP for early missions

And sometimes RNG wise you just find a Tier 3 weapon, but that's RNG and not guaranteed

[heavy tulip]

The more I think about this, the more I feel like the necessity of the 'loot wiping' isn't so much a factor of keeping the game from getting too easy, but rather one of improper balance. The artifacts have some seriously broken bonuses. As a result, 'starting' a relatively short mission cycle with them trivializes the difficulty...but regardless after you get them they trivialize the difficulty anyhow. The only time they don't is when you don't find them on the longer missions. I think the limited carrying capacity makes the impact of tier3 weapons less so, and being able to start with 1 of your choice only makes it so that you don't have to wait until the last few jumps in order to use it. Same with the artifacts, but I would argue that the artifacts overall should be nerfed. Then, there wouldn't be as much of an issue with getting to start with different loadouts, as they could play to a crew/host preference, especially for certain missions.

But yeah, whether I start OP or end up OP doesn't really feel that different right now, tbh.

I certainly wouldn't want balance to be such that you are required to find certain upgrades/weapons/artifacts either. But as I've mentioned before, the limited carrying capacity already prevents me from carrying most weapons already. And if we get more and more weapon types, i.e. beam rifles, other melee weapons, etc. starting with 1 might not be such a bad idea because you could still have something into which you can invest, but also enjoy finding other 'fun' weapons/artifacts

Also, I think pineapple power needs a cap. We boosted it to the point wherein we could 1-shot the most powerful bots with our pistol. And if the argument for roguelite is that it prevents the game from being too easy...then that simply doesn't seem to hold up. And I think the issue is really just a need for better balanced upgrades

[dusky nest]

Materia cost.

[ashen swallow]

Materia cost?

[dusky nest]

Yes, the stuff you collect during missions for crafting?

That's how I would balance crafting weapons from permanent blue prints.

The higher the tier blueprint the more it costs to craft.

So it wouldn't be as viable to make on lower lvl missions as you don't collect as much material, but on higher lvls it works.

[heavy tulip]

Although we already have choice and investment with how the ship components work. Having an artifact and small arms 'category' would work the same. You could limit to 1/1 for small arms and maybe 2/2 for artifacts (after rebalancing them). Then you still get the joy of finding loot, and having a 'fresh start', but you also get the joy of progression and investment, as well as getting to choose different loadouts.

[ashen swallow]

Ah yeah some sort of resource sink

Although with how much the ship takes damage and fast mmo runs out it's easier to just pile up a bunch of random weapons and use whatever is available or ammo crates when you get a good tier weapon

I will always lean towards more shield or ship repairs or ship ammo based on current balance

[dapper hare]

I feel I would like the idea of once completing a mission and returning to the hanger, that you can't progress until you sort out the items you have scavenged on the mission but you are limited to how much you can keep per mission, and the rest you sell/trade/donate for cash/xp for perk tree, etc.

[heavy tulip]

yeah, agreed. That would be nice.

I've played a ton of the demo, about 40 hours or so. And after a while the lack of progress or control you feel about never really accomplishing anything sort of drains my motivation. But, the truly varied and refreshing aspects are playing with new players. I think that adds far more replay value than anything else. Or even the same people, but trying out completely unorthodox tactics.

[ashen swallow]

Jesus can you imagine trying to sort that crap out in a pug?

Like sea of thieves loot worked because the only purpose is to tell it and gain credit

[ashen swallow]

That's the big thing is figuring out meta progression without too heavily affecting the roguelite nature of missions

Clearly just ship upgrades isn't enough

[heavy tulip]

Yeah, agreed on all counts

[dapper hare]

Lol, but let's say you scavenge around 30 items, the first task would be "what 4 things will you keep, the rest will be sold/traded, etc."

Something basic like that, maybe?

[heavy tulip]

Admittedly, I will probably feel better about everything if we get skill trees and stuff related to exp

And getting to load out skills, like in Void Crew as an example, would help towards those goals.

[ashen swallow]

Keep 3 RPGs obviously

[ashen swallow]

Noooo no skill trees

[heavy tulip]

people have discussed a limited storage 'bank' option wherein you could place a few items to keep

[heavy tulip]

meh, I seldom ever use the rocket launchers. But you can already craft those

[ashen swallow]

Or I guess it depends how skill trees work

If you can add skill trees without forcing players into roles it can work

[heavy tulip]

right

[ashen swallow]

No role should be necessary to fill or forced to play if you don't want to

Well I guess piloting but like you get my point

[heavy tulip]

I imagine they want to do something with level/rank other than "you're now 'this' level"

[dapper hare]

Skill trees could probably slightly increase stats, nothing too overpowering/game changing... definitely not necessary

[heavy tulip]

but I'd agree I don't want it to be required in order to accomplish missions

[dapper hare]

There's definitely many ways the skill tree could be implemented

[heavy tulip]

like jetpack speed, or on foot speed, or in ship speed kind of things

or maybe even things like making fire extinguishers work a bit faster or cover more area.

although I never really feel like I need boosts. They've already done such a great job with enemies on different difficulty missions. You get bots with more annoying abilities, and maybe more of them, but overall you never feel weak or like your weapons are ineffective

[ashen swallow]

Hrm

What if instead of being able to craft certain weapons or tiers prior to mission, there are weapon upgrades and attachments you can pick and customize while at the hangar

You pick up said gun, it will be loaded with your customizations. It keeps the rogue element of finding said gun, and different tiers, but you still get your personal progression

[mild forge]

https://tenor.com/view/pernalonga-meme-pernalonga-no-no-não-nao-gif-27211143

[ashen swallow]

I also agree 🤣 but you know, the devs are considering some sort of solution but haven't come up with one yet

[crystal sentinel]

I personally dont fully like the rogue like eliments just bcuz the loot feels like a waste. However i feel like that would be solved if the look turned into credits at the end of the mission

[ashen swallow]

Yeah that's the plan

[heavy tulip]

The problem with credits is that aside from components there isn't much to spend them on. I have over 12k in the demo, and finishing missions would still feel hollow once you have bought everything

I think carrying over materia would feel better

But only if you could unlock small arms and artifact recipes

Or if you could donate or share credits

[sour smelt]

Remember this is a demo. You can easily exaust everything it has to give in around 2/3 hours

[heavy tulip]

correct. yeah, it will take a very long time to unlock every component upgrade in the full game

personally, I hope that upgrades go beyond level 3 though, in the full release

I still think that at the very least, small arms should be treated like a component category!

[sour smelt]

I mean, even after that, they will need some sort of money sink

[heavy tulip]

pick 1 for a loadout, and be able to upgrade them at the hangar.

[ashen swallow]

Silly hats for buddy

[sour smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-money-futurama-gif-6882124657810317443

[distant estuary]

Robots don't need hats

[ashen swallow]

how dare you

[distant estuary]

😂

[crystal sentinel]

I assume there will also be more ships and ull be able to spend credits there. And maybe a couple minor suit upgrades. And obviously way more components.

But yeah if i run out of things to spend credits on it will get hollow. I just assumed things outside the demo would be more expensive and there would be way more of them

[heavy tulip]

The thing is, I wouldn't mind, but I still like the idea of a small-arms and artifact category similar to components. (with the ability to unlock nodes via loot, and upgrade them in the hangar) And limit how many you can loadout. i.e. 1/1 for small arms and maybe 2/2 for artifacts. But admittedly you might need to nerf the artifacts or cap them as some are just too broken

[sour smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-db-shotgun-gif-21597283

[distant estuary]

Those do look like something robots need, yes I agree

[night dagger]

I think it is really dumb that you get this cool weapon that you looted on one mission, say a shotgun or assault rifle, then you return to base to do another mission, and now you only have a pistol/multitool...makes no sense.

[digital summit]

Might be cool to have those weapons craftable like the sideclip (just at mk 0)

But keeping a mk 3 weapon into the next run would just be broken and destroy the progression for each mission

I do really like how the whole run I’m hoping for my favorite gun though

Just a little difficult on 5.0 missions to take down everything with a sideclip lol

[ashen swallow]

That's the roguelight element and the fun of the RNG. Not needing to have to prep, not needing to have to loot goblin to make sure you're prepared for the next mission

Ammo is cheap and mk 3 weapons are crazy strong

[heavy tulip]

I still don't understand why we cannot have both. If we limit what you can 'bring with you' to 1, you still get the RNG and joy of refinding the same loot over and over, but you also get the joy of upgrading and bringing your favorite. And I feel like the 'you would be too strong' arguments just don't hold water for me because you don't need any weapons to kill clankers, you just need time. Having a better gun at the start doesn't make it easier, it makes it faster. And you still have to reload the other guns, so until you get enough materia to be able to bring ammo crates, you can't use them forever.

Some of my frustrations are that by the time you get a bunch of 'cool stuff', I never get to use it. Because on missions like the cargo raid, I'm not rewarded for engaging the enemies and taking them out with cool weapons. I am mostly just running as fast as possible to pick up the objective and get it to my ship.

[ashen swallow]

I'm curious to see what the devs come up with as a comrpomise

[heavy tulip]

And same point with fortress missions. you are better off not killing everything but leaving one big enemy to stop the waves and just ignore them.

I barely used all the ammo on the 1 gun I would take with me

[heavy tulip]

same. I feel like some of the mission designs don't fit well with roguelite. The reset is too short. I know they've talked about an endless mode...and that I think would at least be a compromise.

[ashen swallow]

The only thing i can think of is that endless mode might be too rewarding of experience and credits? Especially if they implement item/materia conversion into credits and xp at the end/death of mission

[heavy tulip]

But I think the frustration of resets will feel much more severely when you have to stop an endless run without saving anything. dozens of hours of effort gone with nothing to show for it.

[ashen swallow]

and is kind of anti-the current design of the game which is < 1 hour missions

[heavy tulip]

I don't know that you have to limit rewards of exp and credits. This isn't an MMO. I maxed out all my stuff in the demo and kept playing.

[ashen swallow]

Overall, don't know what the solution is. The fact that there is some level of meta progression makes people want more progression saving

[heavy tulip]

and choice

I like what they do with components

you can invest in all of them, but you can change them out for different missions

right now, it was mostly limited to the reactor, but I feel like trying out different combos or permutations will also be fun

[ashen swallow]

Yeah, one big part is people are asking for a lot of things but we haven't even seen the whole game yet or the full breadth and depth of the meta progression with ships currently

At the very least they do say they want to add something for individual/avatar progression, so that's something

so having ship + character progression, but not huge game changing requirements/need i'll be happy

[heavy tulip]

I agree it shouldn't be too game changing

[ashen swallow]

i feel like just being able to easily jump in and play with other players is critical to ease of multiplayer. Maybe the only difference is maybe one player has a way better ship/upgraded ship, so you might have them host for dif 5+ stuff

but otherwise you can just jump in and play, not have to worry that you are "underleveled" or dont' have certain perks unlocked

[heavy tulip]

starting with the most powerful artifacts would be kinda dumb, you'd throw everything else away. (and those artifacts need caps and/or nerfs)

[heavy tulip]

yeah, most people tended to want me to host since I unlocked/upgraded things before they did

which sort of defeats the point of progression for them

[ashen swallow]

How does ship component unlock work when you're on someone elses ship?

[heavy tulip]

because my ship was fully repaired with maxed out components, and they were new players

so they didn't have to do any missions without the fully unlocked/fixed ship

[heavy tulip]

if you find any new component on your run, they unlock it for their ship too

[ashen swallow]

oh awesome

[heavy tulip]

I really liked that aspect

because everyone gains something by playing together

[calm flax]

only thing that dont progress on all is the story

thats a little bit sad

[ashen swallow]

Sorry?

[calm flax]

If you played the prologue you get the demaged ship and if you play on this ship with others you progress in the story and get the ship upgrade but your mates dont get that on their ships

so if you want that everyone has the mk1 ship you have to play the missions 4 times

[ashen swallow]

ohhhh

that's a pain

[calm flax]

yea but maybe there is no better solution. Because it would suck too if you played one times with somone further in the story and than skip all the story parts

[heavy tulip]

true. I wouldn't mind playing a mission over for new players though.

[rapid aspen]

Yeah, losing my stuff will make me quickly lose interest in this game.

[rapid aspen]

I just want a single gun locker, you can choose one gun to keep on your ship. I also do not like that you start with so little material to craft things.

Make it so artifacts have 5 or 10 jumps. Make them more rare, and then you decide when best to use them. Having the for a single mission, is just so deflating.

[ashen swallow]

Oh you're in here too

Per our discussion in #1383514396352974989 that's the point of the game design

I do think they didn't do a great job advertising missions are roguelite

I think that surprised a lot of players

so if you're straight up not use to that kind of mechanic, or like that mechanic/genre, it's going to feel REAL bad

[rapid aspen]

Yeah, unless it changes it well not get my money.

[ashen swallow]

That's fine...? Like, the game isn't meant for you and that's okay. No one is forcing you to play it

We won't know 100% for sure until we see early access

and they may add features closer to what you want, but it's good to set your expectation for how they are designing the game

[blissful jungle]

i would be fine if you started with 2 guns. one a pistol, the other a player choice. then "power weapons" could be found but would have low ammo, leaving little reason to keep them. like how Halo MP used to work. if that makes sense.

[ashen swallow]

Literally what you're asking for is out of scope of roguelite for missions @rapid aspen @pure pond

I don't know why people completely ignore the fact that ships currently have meta long term progression

you have ship components and there will be multiple ships

The game doesn't have to have both ship and individual/avatar progression, but they have clearly heard feedback but will add something

but it will be disingenuous to yourself if you think they will completely remove the rogue element to missions

A more concise summary on what devs have said

Things to Consider When Asking to Add More Progression/Remove Rogue Elements w/ Dev Comments

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"The roguelite elements of the missions are there to keep you from being to powerful. If you're always able to save up gear and start each mission with more stuff than you're supposed to have, that eliminates the challenge which is ultimately the point of the game."

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/5/2025:

We might experiment a bit with reducing some rogue aspects a bit since it's a common critique we get It wont go away entirely, thats for sure

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/11/25

But it will still be mostly roguelite, we cant keep all artifacts or the entire balance of the game would break immediately lol

Things the Devs are Already Considering or Will Add

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"But extra gear and materia turning into credits when the mission is done is super valid and we will do that."

• Groove on 6/10/25:

"Oh yeah, endless mode will be in the Early Access full game "

• Groove on 6/5/25:

"Maybe. We will add some kind of character progression that feels meaningful, we gotta figure out what form that will take first."

[sharp gazelle]

Mr Lore Keeper over here

[ashen swallow]

I'm trying 😭

[naive badge]

From one archivist to another you're doing a fantastic job. [Wi-Fives]

[blissful jungle]

i like this,
"The roguelite elements of the missions are there to keep you from being to powerful. If you're always able to save up gear and start each mission with more stuff than you're supposed to have, that eliminates the challenge which is ultimately the point of the game."
I feel a lot could be simplified to push further to this goal and create a more satisfying gameplay loop.

[heavy tulip]

yep. And to my points, I wouldn't want to be able to load up all the T3 guns and/or max artifacts either. I like that the components have different types and you have to choose. I would like that same feeling for the on-foot aspect too, not just the ship. I don't know what that looks like, and I trust the devs to come up with something fun and balanced. But if they had to pick, go fun > balanced.

[blissful jungle]

i agree

[fading condor]

As I see it it should be a deal where you lose what you die with as far as personal weapons and such, allowing you to bring heavy firepower into harder missions but also risk losing it

[rapid aspen]

I agree

[vivid lintel]

At least you get to keep your ship modules and their upgrades, which I think is more than enough and is fun to keep building onto that and upgrading it

[zinc jackal]

I do think it would be cool if you could upgrade your pistol since you lose everything else

[rapid aspen]

Yeah, losing upgrades, artifacts, weapons, material, etc, as you progress through the story is a hard pillow to swallow.

[distant estuary]

Then this type of game ain't for you

I like what they're making

[ashen swallow]

I don't necessarily want to see straight power increases, but unlocking different skins or like, opticals could be fun.

The rng of weapon mks is kind of the point. You make do you what you find, and really enjoy it when you find that mk 3 weapon for a run

[distant estuary]

Very minor upgrades would be nice

Less recoil, cleaner sight

Very small repair speed buff

[zinc jackal]

yeah optics, bigger mags stuff like that

[distant estuary]

1 extra bullet in the clip

[ashen swallow]

Even bigger mags would defeat the purpose of the roguelite design, if they do add some straight buffs I hope it's very minimal

Like 10-15% tops

But you start treading dangerous territory of "necessary" and "mandatory" upgrades for optimized gameplay

Finding a gun with like a bigger magazine is different from starting with one if that makes sense

[distant estuary]

Agreed that's why I specifically said 1 more bullet lol

[zinc jackal]

That's fair I was thing more along the lines of sights and maybe like an upgrade to get burst fire? doesn't change much other than how fast you could shoot

[ashen swallow]

We are all patiently waiting to see what they come up with

[ashen swallow]

Yeah, small player preference stuff I'm all for

[distant estuary]

Someone suggested a bayonet in my pistol upgrades suggestion, and now I want one 😂

[ashen swallow]

Or like gun charms or stickers. Just silly little cosmetics

[distant estuary]

Bring me closer so I can stab them with my pistol!

[ashen swallow]

Maybe that'll be the difference between a multitool and a wrench. They both can fix/access things, but one does range pewpew the other melee damage

[zenith dove]

What if the shelving is how we save things between runs? Place it on a shelf, it stays there until it's removed kind of thing. You can stock up on ammo and shield on a soft run and on those harder ones when there's less time between things happening and you don't have a lot of time for the fabrication process you can plan ahead and save ammo or ship repairs

[wide elbow]

I could see an alternate game mode for ship persistence, but I really feel like the core game should stay rogue-lite like this

[ashen swallow]

People keep suggesting something like this but i doubt it will be added because they are very keen on the roguelite element of it

[zenith dove]

Oh, it's fun as hell like it is, but having artifacts that can power up on materia and then... Deleting all your materia between runs

[ashen swallow]

Not having to prepare, not having to hoard items, and just being able to jump into a mission with 0 prep is on purpose

[zenith dove]

Also, how do I join the fan club

[ashen swallow]

Just change your nickname! 🤣

[zenith dove]

I gotta get a mod to do it then cause I don't have nitro for server nicknames

[wide elbow]

Server nicknames are not a nitro perk though?

Server avatars are

[zenith dove]

Did they change it in the last few years?

Yeah, "edit per server profile" under the settings is locked behind a "get nitro" button

[wide elbow]

Yeah I know I just looked it up and server nicknames are still available to everyone, you just need to have permission from the server ("Change Nickname")

[zenith dove]

Ah. I'll get it eventually

[vivid lintel]

like the weighted blades from dead space, making the basic weapon's melee really good lol

[zenith dove]

At the very least, I feel artifacts should be allowed to be held between runs.

[inner birch]

Actually rougelite stuff is exactly what I see in artifacts, this random upgrades that if you synergize well will make you stupidly OP at the end of the run, they definetely should disappear after a run. Keeping 210% railgun damage, or Pineapple power, or AoE heal when close to teammates, or reflective wrath, way to OP to keep between missions.

I am on side of having few gun racks that can hold a weapons, maybe some ammo crates, stims, etc. but definitely not artifacts. But I will buy game anyway, this is not that important for me, and if developers say that personal progression will be in the game, same as ship progression then all fine with me. Because my powerfantasy is being a Mandalorian, so having sick ship AND sick weapons and suit upgrades 😄

[zenith dove]

Oh, absolutely buying it regardless. What about adding a modifier to upgradable artifacts, the ones you can put other artifacts into to power them up, those ones disappear, but the ones that are just 1 level can stay?

WAIT! 🤯 Pay Materia to keep a single artifact between runs but it's level always resets

And the price is exorbitant, like 5000 materia

[ashen swallow]

Just accept the rogue element! 🤣

Stop trying to make fetch happen

[zenith dove]

Now hear me out, there's a special slot in the artifact room that's just a big circle indented into the wall. It only fits 1 artifact, a whole golden pizza. It's the only artifact that persists because it doesn't exist as a whole one. You have to collect individual gold pizza slices and all it does is give each player 5 more health points. More of an Easter egg than anything major

[ashen swallow]

SOLD

[zenith dove]

Hidden achievement to fill in the whole pizza but it's only like a 1 in 50 jump chance of a slice spawning

[night dagger]

I like RNG, i like the randomness of things but If I lose all that I've gained after each mission then it just seems meaningless. Like, what's the point? Yeah its fun for that mission, but I do agree with previous posters, Your inventory should be persistent and if you die you should also lose all said equipment.

[ashen swallow]

Have you played roguelikes/roguelites before?

[verbal charm]

They are making this game the way they are. Saying how you want them to remove a core feature of this is silly

[night dagger]

Tons.

[ashen swallow]

If it's not a mechanic you're use to it's EXTREMELY jarring

I think they didn't advertise well that missions are roguelite

Which is a fair criticism

I was surprised too after my first mission

[night dagger]

Risk of Rain 2 and Everspace to name a couple.

[ashen swallow]

Ah yeah so you're very familiar

they are going to add some stuff

Like, extra loot leftover will turn into credits

they are adding some sort of meta progresion for avatars

and of course what you've seen, meta progression for ships

But they want to preserve the roguelite element to missions, that's a core gameplay loop

they will just lighten it up a bit more

[night dagger]

If we compare this to Void Crew, Void Crew makes sense, because its one long continuous mission that you go until you either die or give up and return to base. These missions they send us on in Jump Ship are very short in comparison, that's why it makes more sense to be able to keep loot from each mission. And unlike void crew the changes you make to the ship do carry over.

[ashen swallow]

They are indeed adding some sort of endless mode

[ashen swallow]

Yeah the changes to your ship doesn't quite carry over in jump ship

[zenith dove]

Endless????

[ashen swallow]

new components are added to your hangar armory for you to change between missions

and of course components can be upgraded with credits

[ashen swallow]

hold on i have a huge post for this

__ Dev Comments About the Roguelite Element of Missions__

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"The roguelite elements of the missions are there to keep you from being to powerful. If you're always able to save up gear and start each mission with more stuff than you're supposed to have, that eliminates the challenge which is ultimately the point of the game."

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/5/2025:

We might experiment a bit with reducing some rogue aspects a bit since it's a common critique we get It wont go away entirely, thats for sure

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/11/25

But it will still be mostly roguelite, we cant keep all artifacts or the entire balance of the game would break immediately lol

Dev Comments on Future Features

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"But extra gear and materia turning into credits when the mission is done is super valid and we will do that."

• Groove on 6/10/25:

"Oh yeah, endless mode will be in the Early Access full game "

• Groove on 6/5/25:

"Maybe. We will add some kind of character progression that feels meaningful, we gotta figure out what form that will take first."

See this document for a larger compilation of dev comments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJe9sg8MggeJV1EdYDtjcIcjz0JcqsaAG7m7G_Bkoas/edit?gid=797638424#gid=797638424
There is a video coming up about feeedback

[zenith dove]

I mean, we can always circle back to the golden pizza 😁

[ashen swallow]

It all comes back to golden pizza

The best advice i can give is to just be patient 🤣

EA comes out within three months or so

and they will reveal more information, especially addressing current feedback for the demo

[zenith dove]

Aw man, so Imma have to wait a few months after they let me play to play again?

😭

[ashen swallow]

🫵

Cope

we'll all have to cope together

😭

[zenith dove]

No! I don't want more copium

[inner birch]

New class releases in Darktide next monday - Adeptus Arbites. And Helldivers 2 on a roll with updates atm, so plenty of 4 player co-op PvE games to play while we wait 😄

[rapid aspen]

Totally agree

[static oyster]

Let us keep the garden nomes.

[heavy tulip]

it's available to find at the start of every mission.

[static oyster]

I know

[crisp slate]

Just hopped into this Discord and saw this topic. L take. Game was presented to me as a multiplayer version of the roguelike FTL and it should stay that way. Stick to the vision.

[distant estuary]

They are. Don't worry

[crisp slate]

Well that's good. There are plenty of other games out there for accumulating resources and progress while on space adventures. Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, etc etc.

[heavy tulip]

it does not adhere to all 9 aspects of roguelike. it is only roguelite

[ashen swallow]

They are adding a little something for a avatar/personal progression as to what tbd. But missions being roguelite is a core loop and they're not fundamentally changing that.

I look forward to the video on Mon

[heavy tulip]

with roguelite they only have to adhere to whichever aspects they want to keep. it's very open-ended and more than a bit arbitrary. I think it's perfectly reasonable to improve some of the other progression like they do with components

[night dagger]

I don't want them to change the missions. I just want progression to feel meaningful. Restarting with nothing is meaningless

[distant estuary]

You are working on your ship while playing

That's the progression

[night dagger]

yeah, its not apparent...AT ALL.

[heavy tulip]

I have consistently proposed treating small arms like ship components.

[ashen swallow]

Starting with nothing is the point and keeps the game accessible and easily drop in/out. The player ship determines overall mission difficulty but otherwise you don't have to grind gear to prepare for other missions

[crisp slate]

Most roguelikes have between-run progression to play with more options and upgrading certain things. But gear you find mid run that makes your "build" or what have you, shouldn't be kept. Like guns and artifacts. As it stands, this game is operating as a standard roguelike in that sense, which is good.

[ashen swallow]

Agreed, they could have been more clear about ship meta progression and roguelite of missions

[heavy tulip]

disagree here

small arms don't really matter that much

[night dagger]

just account for the player having actual small arms as you progress closer to the center of the galaxy. Not hard.

[heavy tulip]

I just think it would be nice to invest into something for on-foot

[distant estuary]

The weapons you find are more powerful than your pistol. Starting with them makes thing easier

[ashen swallow]

Attachment and small customization d that doesn't make it stronger would help

[heavy tulip]

hahaha, not even remotely true. with the exception of halberd and javelin

the sideclip is trash

[night dagger]

so make the start of newer missions harder. BAM problem solved.

[crisp slate]

Maybe not right now, but it can help dictate whether a crew has the means to focus on boarding more, or ship to ship combat. Plus, you can buy a basic gun from the assembler. Whose to say that we might not be able to upgrade the assembler to build more things? Would just take Materia.

[heavy tulip]

maw is trash too

I recycle those. would always use multitool over those

[crisp slate]

I dunno, they work just fine for me

[ashen swallow]

I think you are missing the point entirely on why it is designed the way it is. You are fundamentally asking for something that is not the genre

[heavy tulip]

multitool works better

[ashen swallow]

Being able to load up with any other three players and just immediately playing is wonderful horror multiplayer co-op

[distant estuary]

You couldn't be more wrong lol. The shotgun and smg are both good

If you can't use them, that's a you thing

[heavy tulip]

roguelite isn't a strict set of rules. if anything it's a very loose set of some of the rules

[distant estuary]

The sniper is isanely good, I'll give you that. It just deletes things

[ashen swallow]

If you play more than other friends it won't lock them out because they are under leveled or something. Like they haven't unlocked certain weapons

[heavy tulip]

I don't think this will ever be an issue

[night dagger]

No I'm not. I love RNG. Missions shoulud get progressively harder as you progress further in the game. Kneecapping the player because "RNG must be the same everytime" is asinine to think about it that way and I don't want to play a game that makes me grind the same thing over and over with little to no variety.

[heavy tulip]

I've played with new players many times and sometimes you have to help or even carry 1 or 2 people. it's not a big issue

[heavy tulip]

see that's the part that I find slightly annoying. It doesn't feel rewarding to 're-find' the same weapon over and over

there's a lot more than on-foot stuff though, so it doesn't affect the whole game, just certain aspects

[ashen swallow]

I am a little confused that you say you love RNG and then you immediately say something that goes against that. Not having to prep for a mission and having rng loot is the point of their current design

[distant estuary]

You fly the same ship over and over. You shoot the same enemies over and over. That's rewarding?

[crisp slate]

Do you play roguelikes? 😛

[night dagger]

RNG has progression, what you are suggesting is a hampster spinning in the wheel with the owner throwing things at it.

[heavy tulip]

with endless waves you run out of ammo anyhow, so even if you start with all T3 weapons, you still run out of ammo, or do like many of us do, and end up ignoring bots altogether. which makes having guns at the start equally pointless

[heavy tulip]

you mean roguelites

[ashen swallow]

That's pretty much how sea of thieves works. It's RNG, no weapon upgrades, and you loot for cosmetics. There's no skill trees. It works for people who are into it. The draw is how easy it is to drop in and out. You don't have to do XYZ to play with your friends.

If you want to play higher difficulty missions you do have to have a stronger ship, so all you have to do is join the host who has a better ship.

Individually people will have to unlock their own ships and components if they want their own personal strong ship, but ultimately you don't have to

We also don't know the different mission types, ships, or other rewards yet as you go deeper towards the core

[heavy tulip]

this game also doesn't have the concept of permadeath

[distant estuary]

Don't want permadeath

[ashen swallow]

If they go the route of unlocking higher mks to build or keep, then you do kind of punish players that aren't lucky with RNG or now they have to grind to have better weapons. Now you have a system of forced progression to be able to play with others instead of easily dropping in and out regardless of your personal progression

[heavy tulip]

I get confused with how much inconsistency people throw around with 'roguelike/roguelite' games. A game can be roguelite just by merit of being procedurally generated. Or having some of the other elements, but it's always in defense of the things they like about the rogue aspects vs what others like. I am fine with procedurally generated content, but I also think it is fair that since we have progression with ship stuff that we can also have progression with small arms.

[night dagger]

And I agree with all that. The issue here, is this game is designed to do continual missions upgrading your ship as progression. What I don't like is that progression is only limited to your ship. Its like promising a cake party, buying the cake and not inviting the friends. Its missing a core component that every game should have, whether it has RNG or not. Players like tangible benefits in their rewards, and not getting them makes it all feel meaningless.

[ashen swallow]

Yeah we can keep arguing in circles but from what the devs have said hold on

__ Dev Comments About the Roguelite Element of Missions__

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"The roguelite elements of the missions are there to keep you from being to powerful. If you're always able to save up gear and start each mission with more stuff than you're supposed to have, that eliminates the challenge which is ultimately the point of the game."

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/5/2025:

We might experiment a bit with reducing some rogue aspects a bit since it's a common critique we get It wont go away entirely, thats for sure

• Meat Man (Alfons) on 6/11/25

But it will still be mostly roguelite, we cant keep all artifacts or the entire balance of the game would break immediately lol

Dev Comments on Future Features

• Groove on 6/7/25:

"But extra gear and materia turning into credits when the mission is done is super valid and we will do that."

• Groove on 6/10/25:

"Oh yeah, endless mode will be in the Early Access full game "

• Groove on 6/5/25:

"Maybe. We will add some kind of character progression that feels meaningful, we gotta figure out what form that will take first."

See this document for a larger compilation of dev comments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJe9sg8MggeJV1EdYDtjcIcjz0JcqsaAG7m7G_Bkoas/edit?gid=797638424#gid=797638424
There is a video coming up about feeedback

[heavy tulip]

I find it troublesome when death and winning have the same outcome

there are no real stakes

[ashen swallow]

That is true, the game is missing stakes

Even if you fail you are awarded some exp. And credits

Whether or not that is necessary to the loop idk

[night dagger]

yes, and I'm arguing here, so that hopefully one of the Devs reads this and thinks, "Huh, maybe we should reconsider this."

[ashen swallow]

Yeah I doubt that, I honestly do

But we'll know for sure monday

[night dagger]

I'd rather put a message in a bottle hoping someone will read it rather than not throw the message in the bottle in the first place.

[ashen swallow]

They are adding individual progression, but I don't think it will be stronger weapons

And if it is, it's going to be marginal, which may be unsatisfying for folks

[ashen swallow]

Oh yeah for sure I get that

Your opinion is not an uncommon one, also why this thread has been so active since its inception

[night dagger]

I don't care so much about the stronger weapons, I just care that we keep what we get from RNG. that is the tangible benefit I've been ranting about

[ashen swallow]

If this game was more RPG leaning instead of rogue light with meta progression it would be much easier to argue for having arguably more satisfying individual progression but it is almost anathema to how they want missions to play which is no prep, just drop in, buffs and guns that you find are to be used for that mission only and it is RNG

[distant estuary]

It really seems to me that people are getting hung up on the rogeulite/like definition. that if it's called one thing then it has to be this way or that. None of that matters for most of us, including me. This system of constantly upgrading your ships being the progression is good. It's better than trying to balance around increasingly powerful characters imo. They're going to balance the rewards they said. People are getting hung up on how it is now as if that's how it's 100% going to be.

[ashen swallow]

I don't think that will happen based on how they have described their game design. At a minimum they have said that there will be a reason to hoard your loot, that it will be more rewarding to loot everything and have it on your ship and it will be converted to credits if not credits and experience

[heavy tulip]

see my earlier recommendation is that you can keep/unlock everything, and even upgrade, but you just can't take it all with you. exactly like the ship components but for small arms and artifacts too. you get to loadout 1/1 for small arms

you have agency, choice, still rely mostly on RNG for the rest of the weapons, etc.

[distant estuary]

Your ship is your loadout. The components you take.

[night dagger]

Not really, people have just been arguing that because its RNG you should always start with your initial gear no matter what

[ashen swallow]

Even having small stuff like that can push the kind of bullying behavior by imagine they don't want which is someone not having more progress than another person. That someone is a weaker link because they don't have something unlocked

[night dagger]

yeah, If i wanted that I'd just go play Void Crew

[distant estuary]

This game does not play like void crew

[heavy tulip]

I hope my other comments have made it clear that I like the game as is

[night dagger]

This game is very similar to void crew

[ashen swallow]

Yeah! No I enjoy talking with you. Weve talked a lot!

[night dagger]

the thing that sets it apart is personal guns

[heavy tulip]

and I support whatever decisions the devs make. I just think it would be better to apply the spirit of the ship components to on-foot stuff too

[ashen swallow]

We don't agree 100% but that's healthy for the community and the game

[distant estuary]

Only in the vaguest sense. It's space game where you fix ship problems while shooting other ships

[ashen swallow]

Are you thinking like small buffs like < 15% or attachments or customization?

Like you don't get to pick the mk of your gun, but other customization will be there when you do find the gun in a run

[heavy tulip]

it's a great system. why not let it also apply to other stuff? it's not game breaking, and it's only a suggestion. I'm not trying to bully anyone. I'd still buy the game if it was exactly like the demo

[distant estuary]

There's no FPS gameplay in void crew, there are perks in void crew. You don't take loadouts into void crew either. You get a ship that starts with certain things and go from there

[night dagger]

and loot things during evac. The only real difference is that there is FPS combat with rifles and enemies on evac's and a perk system that JS does not have

[ashen swallow]

I really dislike the perk system and I enjoy the simplicity of JS way more than VC

[distant estuary]

It's all good dude, we're argruing but not fighting. Love this game, want only good things for it. We just want slightly different things.

Now if you wanted pvp... thems fighting words

Or robot hats :/

[heavy tulip]

I don't really want perks either. I want some sense of progression, but I don't want it to be game changing either. Requiring 'role-based' perks would deny the spirit of letting everyone flex into whatever needs to get done

[distant estuary]

Yes. And that's what having ship prog will allow. You can play on anyone's ship and do anything. And even if you don't have a leveled ship yourself you can still give the full amount of help.

Plus you'll still get credits to upgrade yours when you get back to your own hangar

[heavy tulip]

there's nothing wrong with the ship progression. in fact quite the opposite. I like it so much that I want more of that feel

that's my whole point. I like what they're doing there.

[distant estuary]

Me too. But it should stop there. If you have players upgrading stuff or unlocking stuff to start with then there will be a difference to the max amount you can help.

One thing I would like are blueprints for Mk0 weapons to be available

[heavy tulip]

I'd disagree. I don't think there is a difference

[distant estuary]

But nothing higher than that

[heavy tulip]

say you loadout 1/1 of a small arm. say the halberd

your friend doesn't have that one, but they like it...you hand them yours

and you find something else

[distant estuary]

Yeah that works great for friends and most people

[heavy tulip]

or use multitool for the mission

[distant estuary]

But what if I'm some online asshole and I have to pick between randoms. And one comes with Mk3 weapons and the other with Mk1

I'll pick the Mk3 guy

I don't have to give him anything

He gives me more damage

[heavy tulip]

if people are like that, newer players don't want to play with them anyhow

[distant estuary]

By doing nothign on my end

[heavy tulip]

that's just a bad time

[distant estuary]

But they will end up with them

[ashen swallow]

Having even an mk 0 of any weapon starting is kind of a huge advantage if you have bad rng luck on the first mission node

[distant estuary]

However, if prog is JUST the ship, then they can be just like anyone else who joins

[heavy tulip]

honestly none of the guns are necessary

[ashen swallow]

Yeah this is the more realistic and unfortunate reality of multiplayer

[heavy tulip]

I've cleared T5 cargo with multi-tool

[ashen swallow]

I think there's a lot of rebalancing

I've had 3s harder than 5s

[heavy tulip]

unlimited ammo is just so powerful

yeah, I've heard of people getting bad luck with T4s

I honestly don't think the guns really matter though. You can take stuff down with any of them, or even pizza

but do I love the javelin? yes, we're married now.

[distant estuary]

Sure some people can

I'm old and my reflexes really suck now compared to 20 years ago lol

I'd rather not have to bitch slap robots with nasty ass pizza

[heavy tulip]

pizza is great, it serves as a melee weapon AND a health potion

[distant estuary]

Pineapple pizza should do a DoT to people :/

[heavy tulip]

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't eaten my melee weapon by accident though

[distant estuary]

Lol

That works better with pizza compared to a wrench at least

[ashen swallow]

My predictions to go with rewarding more credits for leftover equipment at the end of missions

1. Keep the no prep/rng/no carry over
2. Since you have more credits, more sinks like gun skins or other customizations like stickers or charms that will appear when you pick up said gun
3. Minor gun changes or attachments that doesn't make it stronger/something that can be optimized
4. Probably armors that have extremely minor buffs to certain ship roles (fire/radioactive resistance, faster reloading, faster ship) 5-15% tops

[distant estuary]

Combat armor should have jetpack speed. Slightly better for boarding

But minor boost

[ashen swallow]

I would love to see them thread the needle of fun player choice and customization but not role defining/required gear

[distant estuary]

Same. Cool bonuses but not needed or defined in anyways

Opposite of helldivers armor lol

At least they've been buffing the more useless ones lately

[ashen swallow]

Hahaaha

[covert solstice]

This thread never dies lmao

[zenith dove]

AI, AI, AI, AI, stayin alive, stayin alive

[sly nymph]

this is the dumbest take ive seen

[pastel spear]

this thread might aswell be an official channel lmao

its over 2 weeks old now

[wraith sonnet]

Increase rogue aspects

[distant estuary]

Crafting ammo and shields now gives random amounts!

[covert solstice]

Your ship is now randomly generated

[ashen swallow]

3 rail guns, no engine 🤣

[wraith sonnet]

@distant estuarythats great, personally i would like longer runs with more rng for ship upgrades which you loose at the end. We should have two separate trees, one which u lose at the end of run, and a permanent harder to find one.

[distant estuary]

There are going to be longer missions and an endless mode in EA

[distant estuary]

You start on a bot corvette. They try to kill you immediately. 😂

[inner birch]

I will take corvette over minelayer anyday 😄

[neon scroll]

It would be completely impossible to balance the game, or prevent cheesing, if active mission items and equipment did not reset. All roguelites work this way. It's the only way they CAN work at all.

You have meta progression that devs can balance for. Predictable upgrades that won't create synergies on their own, sometimes a new ability. And that's all.

If this wasn't the case, you could accidentally ruin the balance of your game forever by getting the right artifact/equipment combo during a throwaway mission.

I do think there's some wiggle room here. Having a container to store 1-2 items and carry them over to the next mission could give players a bit more agency in making a build without sacrificing the balance.

[dusty wolf]

Graphics changed to ASCII characters

[mortal isle]

I fully expect there to be some ship upgrade at some point that gives you a mk0 version of each gun on the ship to start.

But I rather like the balance brought about with losing everything not attached to the ship except credits

[ashen swallow]

Carry over/extraction is something I think they want to avoid entirely, so I am please to see that any hoarded loot they plan on converting into credits for you to spend

[ashen swallow]

I think that might be the only way to do it is to add it as a ship upgrade

That would still allow players with 0 experience and 0 prep to just play on anyone's ship, and not have personal progrsesion lock you behind joining harder missions only hosting

[rapid aspen]

People have different play styles, and so I would rather always start with a specific rifle, rather then get dropped down to a toy hand gun.

[rapid aspen]

And the problem is materia does not carry over, or allow you to bank materia.to the next mission. Starting from zero...no thanks.

[rapid aspen]

Amen!!!!

[rapid aspen]

Not enough to keep me around

[rapid aspen]

Disagree

[rapid aspen]

Amen

[dire lance]

To add my own 5 cents. I only like the game because of the rogue like aspects. I would be part of the other side that says they will drop the game if the rogue parts will be removed.

You can ofc make it so that both options are viable. But that will split the entire community. How do you work when players switch from one gameplay style to another etc.

Btw. The reason why I like the rogue aspect of the game is because the game is otherwise way too easy (you notice this when you get a good drop/enough materia that every fight becomes trivial)

Also I notice in games where you have items etc that the game reaches the endgame (nothing more to do) way quicker. There is no reward anymore (for rogue games the reward is completing the mission successfully, for non rogue games it's the loot at the end. One is infinite, the other limited)

[distant estuary]

Hi
Welcome to the roguelike/lite aspect of the game! What you're saying is the equivalent of someone going to play an rts game and then saying "oh how I wish this was turn based." Like sure you can want that, but that's not what the game is. This team is making a space coop rogue game where your prog is the ship. Asking for something else you may as well play something else.

[dire lance]

Same reason why Elden ring is not for everyone. It has a great atmosphere and bet that a lot of peep want to play it.... But is has it's gameplay set that stays the way it is.

[ashen swallow]

Yeah that's fine as long as there isn't any required progression where one player has a higher personal gun vs another player. I'm surprised only the sidewinder is craftable but not other guns on the ship. I'm perfectly fine if someone has an upgraded assembler so when someone joins that ship for a mission they can craft different guns or higher upgrade guns

Tying it to ship progression will preserve the drop in/drop out style of the game and not lock out players with slower progression

We don't 100% know how if a brand new player can join a veteran player, say for example, on the hardest mission possible. Maybe that's locked behind map fragments where you only join missions for regions you unlocked

Wanting personal progression that is directly tied to personal power increases over time fundamentally changes the game vs. having it as ship only where you can just join stronger strips to do more difficult missions. This keeps the net significantly wider for the player base instead of tiering it off.

[crisp slate]

Yea that's how roguelike/lites work. Sounds like this isn't the genre for you.

[crisp slate]

That's what I'm assuming will be the case. The Assembler will be upgraded, or upon picking up a new gun, it's Mk0 schematic is added to it so you can use the guns you want, but the weakest version of them. That way it still focuses on the roguelike aspect of each run being defined by what you find.

And with harder difficulties, it becoming an important decision as to whether or not the crew should spend the starting Materia on Mk0 guns or not.

[bronze stone]

It would make sense that anything you install during the mission is unstable, but it is salvaged and you can save up salvage to create reliable parts. That would make the most sense to me. Also, anything you don't scrap during the mission is worth more points to upgrade your ship. So if you're careful, you can better use the salvage.

[ashen swallow]

Yee, I'm glad they already said they will reward you more at the end for all the hoarded loot at the end

There also may be a separate resource pool from credits to buy stuff

Like credits vs. ship parts or something

[night dagger]

No, that's like saying I want to play Call of Duty but the guns aren't realistic enough. You can't equate starting with an available gun of choice with it "not being a rogue-like". Starting a new mission should be considered having already started your run. It should represent the progression you've already made and maintain that throughout the game as you progress. If you want to start over everything, reset your ship progress and then you should be "more rogue-like" so you can do the same stupid mission over and over again.

[dire lance]

Still, the game is developed as a rogue-like, promoted as a rogue-like and will be sold as a rogue-like. The whole post is useless and if you don't agree with the rogue-like it begs the question if this is a game for you.

[distant estuary]

That's a poor choice. One of the defining elements to CoD is your loadout. That's just not how jumpship is. Unless you consider the ship as your loadout. Then that's exactly what it is. What you find on the mission is the roguelike/lite part, the ship is the progression.

[ashen swallow]

"it should represent the progression you've already made and maintain that throughout the game as you progress" is exactly the problem. That's now how missions are designed and they have no plans to change it because that's not the genre they, the designers, want. Meta progression with ships is what makes it roguelite and not roguelike

But I think the solution if that is how they implemented has already mentioned, an upgrade assembler to allow printing more and different types of guns and maybe even higher mk weapons at the beginning of a mission

But inherently keeping loot like that and carrying it over 10000% defeats the purpose of how missions are designed

The game is not an extraction shooter. You don't need to do previous missions to prep for later or harder missions. Difficulty is tied to ship progression, but otherwise the point is anybody can join and just play. You won't get kicked for not having grinded 5 epic gems to make a goose gun or whatever other games do. You join, everyone has the same personal gear which is nothing, and the host determines difficulty cap with their ship

[heavy tulip]

I still enjoy the game as is. And I've suggested multiple times of what I feel is a good compromise.

i.e. have another section in the hangar just like ship components where you can collect and upgrade all the weapons, but you're limited to 1 slot for your loadout. So, you still get the rewards of finding other guns each mission, but you still get more of a feeling of progression. It's not game breaking, and the system is already in place with how the ship components work. I mean I really like how they handled ship components! But I don't think we want to completely reject folks who want a bit more progression.

Another suggestion floated around, which I also like, is the ability to toggle off progression by the host. But I also think we all forget that we're all adults and can make the game as challenging as we want. Nobody forces us to equip the best components, etc. We could always have the option to take nothing into a mission and do personal challenges like that.

[bronze stone]

As much as I can sympathize with the "Rogue-like" idea, if you have progression that is anything more than superficial, you need to have progression on your ship/characters. I can understand limiting the progression to an extent, but if you do it too much, the game will lose it's appeal after a point. While a lot of people like rogue-likes, most of them are single player games and I'm not seeing a huge market for rogue-likes that are multiplayer.

[ashen swallow]

People seem to forget that there is currently ship progression and the personal avatar level is rogue like!

You definitely need to upgrade your ship to handle higher difficult missions, especially with the reveal of elite ship enemies

But otherwise the on ground stuff is roguelike with rng loot

I'm very curious what they will do for personal avatar progression. Q&A shows they're still cooking something while preserving the rogue like element of missions

[bronze stone]

As long as the ship progression is substantive, I'm fine with that. I just want to make sure it's not a near-clean wipe between every mission.

[ashen swallow]

Hoarding material appears to be on the books as more rewarding

Not carry over, but more credits or other resources to spend

Ship upgrades and choice seems way bigger than demo showed

Not to mention upgrading new ships you obtain

[bronze stone]

We're supposed to be fighting an AI robot empire. The later missions should require some real power.

[ashen swallow]

Seems like it

I tell you what, ever flown a mk 0 ship with no upgrades in a dif 5?

Your shit is garbage

[bronze stone]

I did, we couldn't really upgrade in any substantial ways in the Demo, from what I could see.

[distant estuary]

Almost like the demo was a small slice of the game and not everything

[bronze stone]

Tiny slice... if they don't release the Early Access version, I'll be a bit bummed. I just hope that the gap between the demo and full versions isn't too small.

[distant estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-woah-wait-what-shocked-what-did-you-say-gif-16673454

[dire lance]

Most of the time a demo is like 1-2% of what the game is. Its like just getting a little bid to entice you to buy the full game.

Early access can be anything from 5-80% of the full game. Depends a bid on how far along the development track the developer releases the early access and how much they want to show the players.

[ashen swallow]

Should be out in about 1-2 months

The Q&A on Wednesday also teased quite a bit what EA will have and the demo barely scratched the surface of content

[bronze stone]

As long as they don't pull a "We Happy Few" (literally completely changed the game) or "Night of the Dead" (completely changed the engine and gameplay, making the game unplayable on all but the most powerful machines), it'll probably be fine.

[covert solstice]

Remind me when was this thread created

And how long it's been alive for

[jaunty shell]

And how the person who made iot likely didn't comment after and dipped from the discord?

[ashen swallow]

June 5th

[mild forge]

Those are rookie numbers. We can keep this train going much longer!

[pastel spear]

omg is this thread finally dead????

[distant estuary]

It was you necromancer

[covert solstice]

GODDAMMIT

[pastel spear]

https://tenor.com/view/ferass18-gif-7869831930024597864

[vagrant rover]

Go play a different game lmao

[ashen swallow]

Current Q&A

• Materia will not carry over
• Everything you place on the floor will not carry over
• Anything you are carryng on your person WILL carry over

[distant estuary]

People got what they wanted. There are no more rogue elements to jump ship

[lavish umbra]

you still only have three inventory slots and since materia doesnt carry over you still have to loot as much as possible

and you can always choose not to take anything with you

[distant estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/rachel-green-jennifer-anniston-woosh-over-my-head-over-your-head-gif-15405360

[dire lance]

Seems that the game got dumped down a little to please the easy difficulty crowd.

[ashen swallow]

I'm at the very least happy that they are open to continued feedback

so fit he carry-over-on-person sucks they're willing to chnage it

[ashen swallow]

I too was very amused by them saying that if you don't want to carry over anything just drop it 🤣

I hope being able to carry over mk3 items isn't too OP

I would have prefered making weapons, and higher mk weapons tied to assembler upgrade and not loot and keep

we'll see how it feels!

[jagged grove]

why is this thread still here tho

[distant estuary]

My joke was that there is no more jump ship, so there's no rogue elements anymore

[jagged grove]

Nooooooo

however will we survive

[ashen swallow]

I MEAN

They did clarify they didn't want to focus too much on those exact genre terms

and were more focused on player feedback and making the game fun

somewhere between core mechanics and dancing around rogue lite/like

[distant estuary]

No. Lol

There is no more jump ship. Only jump space

So no more rogue elements at all im jump ship

[ashen swallow]

Over my dead shark body 😤

Jump Space 2: Tokyo Drift

[distant estuary]

Electric Boogaloo

[dire lance]

I already see 1 thing happening, peep are getting kicked out of games because they did not bring their own T3 weapons, or the other way around, peep are getting kicked because they bring weapons into a rogue run.

[ashen swallow]

That's what i'm worried about but at the least you can't see other people's inventory....?

[dire lance]

they should make it a session/game setting

[ashen swallow]

i'm sure this will get a lot of feedback during closed beta + early access launch

[bronze stone]

I think part of the reason I'm mid on Rogue elements are because I want to see a story progress. Void Crew is a waste of time for me because there is NO story progression, only the trappings of a story that we call "Setting". It's "Metim this" and "Metim that" and "Praise Metim...", but there's no storyline progression.

Jump Space has a storyline - you're all human descendants, AI took over and went crazy and you're trying to get to the center of the galaxy (or wherever) and fix the crazy. That's a storyline with a background, progression and things moving forward. If you then remove that progress from one select aspect (your ship), it breaks that storyline immersion. Can they mitigate it? Absolutely - resource are communalized at some level, assets grabbed during missions aren't stable and need to be rebuilt or scrapped for parts... but removing it altogether ruins the story progression, which is a major draw to this over Void Crew. Also, how do you have progress if your ship baseline is the same on mission 40 as it is on mission 3? Why not just start at mission 40? Why not the last mission if it's the same starting point? You need progress at some level in order to have that story.

Even games like Hades have story and progress. New abilities, trinkets, weapons, etc... Even if the starting point looks similar, there are changes over the course of the story.

[ashen swallow]

wat

Your posts are often mixed with stuff we barely know about, stuff that we only know from demo, and then just a bunch of assumptions and made up stuff

We have no idea how mission progression will work, difficulty, how it works when you use new ships, etc

[bronze stone]

I'm expressing concerns, feedback and suggestions... in the feedback and suggestions.

I have concerns about the Rogue elements causing the game to be somewhat static gameplay that kills the game's replay value beyond a short term (using Void Crew as an example, where me and my friends played it, but lost our interest really fast). Yes, some of what I'm saying is from the beta (we're human descendants, AI went crazy, you're trying to get to the center of the galaxy to save everything). The rest is suggestions and concerns about how rogue type games can go that won't add to the game experience and kill the game in the long-term.

[sharp gazelle]

I'm not caught up on the thread so I'm surely missing context about your feedback but:
Isn't roguelite not static gameplay by its very nature?
Things are different every run and not static.
Us initially taking away all weapons just enforced that feeling, you were forced to experience a difference but not letting you keep your favorite weapon.

Now whether or not that's the right way, we shall see. Curious to see if people like this weapons change more or less than the demo.

[distant estuary]

This is basically just someone who doesn't really like roguelike/lite elements saying that the roguelike/lite game should change that.

[dire lance]

without the rogue element you will have the max lvl weapons after the second game so making the next games easy mode

it removes the challange from the game

i do think that the lvl 1 recipie of every gun would be a nice unlock for the printer, just so you can get your prefered weapon type in a game

[zenith canopy]

We're adjusting weapon rarity and their balance too. Mk3s shows up after a few jumps in a session (not proportionate to the lenght of the mission, which did that short missions yoyd find them really fast), and mk3s wont be as powerful as before in comparison to lower tiers so they wont trivialize missions but still be good finds (Fun fact: Assault rifle MK3 had more than 4 times the DPS than MK0 in the demo)

They'll still have the edge in stats but they've been tuned as to not make bringing weapons make subsequent missions trivially easy

[ashen swallow]

Does this dramatically change the time-to-kill with these new adjustments or is enemy HP also tuned down a bit as well?

[ashen swallow]

The TL;DR

• A lot of folks didn't realize missions were roguelite, e.g. all items disappear from the ship and were disappointed when everything disappeared
• A lot of folks didn't quite understand ship progression and how ship progression works (components, artifacts, etc.), and a lot of people didn't feel the progression of ships getting stronger or customized (also didn't realize the limits of Demo vs. what will actually be available in game)
• A lot of people use to or prefer RPG style games simply want more individual avatar progression while a lot completely ignoring ship progression exist
• Some people don't care about the ease of drop in/drop out sessions if someone isn't as progressed as another player, i.e. they only want to play with other players who are just as strong and progressed as them if there was individual perks, trees, avatar levels, etc.

Also there was a lot of debate of roguelite vs roguelike

[zenith canopy]

We're increasing damage for some of the lower tier weapons to tighten the damage range, so I guess that answers the question

[ashen swallow]

Nice! We'll see how things will shake out when everybody gets their hands on the game. The biggest concern for folks who have played a lot of multiplayer games, PvE games, etc., is the fear of "falling behind" in which the demo-version all you had to do is jump on the strongest ship to play the harder missions more easily. From what I saw the overall lack of individual (required) progression was highly praised and some folks, including myself, were worried about getting kicked from lobbies because didn't have an inventory full of mk.3 weapons or something, e.g. not prepared or loaded up for a harder mission.

For example, sea of thieves, you just pick your favorite weapon type, but no matter what it all did the same damage and no one had individual buffs or perks to make shooting a cannon better or using pistols better.

[zenith canopy]

Yeah thats part of the philosophy of making the tier3 not be as 'mandatory' but still handle really good. At a baseline, all weapons should feel ok, except maybe tier0

[ashen swallow]

Yeah... i found myself just using the multitool gun over mk.0 weapons

because unlimited ammo >

[zenith canopy]

The assaultrifles had the most goofy stat disparity once I looked into it lol

Mk0 had a DPS of 55, MK3 with its tighter spread and over double damage had 220

This compounds with critical hits which means a mk0 has a DPS of 110 on crit and MK3 has a whole 440 dps on crits

Which is a pretty massive disparity that will break any mission challenge if you smuggle that weapon between a mission. Tier3 will still be strong but not 4 times the damage stronger lol

But yeah we do want to introduce a system that lets you get some more starting items for future missions, like starter kits for credits or something, which I think will help with alleviating the 'falling behind' issue

[distant estuary]

Speaking of the assault rifle, any chance for non burst fire mode? Just a personal dislike of burst weapons from fps games. AR being a slower firing harder hitting weapon could differentiate it from the smg

[dire lance]

Still, as soon as you find your preferred t3 weapon its done, there is no real point anymore to look for weapons, maybe only for some scrap points

It makes T0,1,2 pointless in the game really

If it only takes a few jumps to get T3 your better off just removing the entire tier system. Since it's trivial if you keep weapons

[devout apex]

Reaching T3 requires playing for much longer than in the DEMO. Also remember that dying or getting downed makes you loose your weapon.

Drop*

So you can technically never loose your gun if you have a tier 3 weapon, but it's highly unlikely youll always keep it.

By much longer I mean you need to succeed with two or three consecutive missions back to back to reach up to tier3.

[mortal isle]

I had typed this up a week ago in response, but didn't post it because I didn't want to resurrect a dead thread. Since Coulianos posted, I'm guessing it's alive enough for me to chime in.

I want to separate the "Immersion" aspect from the "Rogue" aspect. Even if Jump Space were to fully hit the reset button after each mission, I think there are good ways around it that maintain story, progression, and immersion. Couple examples:

1. Your jumping capability returns the ship to its former state when it left. The work you did remains, but turns out FTL travel is tied in intricate ways with time travel (true fact!), and the secret to surviving is to wormhole back to the space you left in the same state as you left it.
2. There's new field(s) that advanced tech is propagating from the galactic center that makes the weapons and such function. If too far away from the source of those fields for too long, the weapons lose cohesion and become goo. (could also lead to field-breaking areas where the robots stop working and other fun stuff)
3. FTL is precisely calibrated based on weight. Even a single extra gun would cause the jump back to fail.
4. Customs is fully automated, and the import tax on weapons and everything else is too high to warrant bringing them back.

That said, I don't think Jump Space will be that deep in the reset. Upgrades to the ship have been clearly signaled as permanent across all missions (maybe we don't level up the characters, but we do level up the ship!), and dev's have already indicated they're relaxing some of the rogue elements as an experiment.

Personally, I rather enjoy the simplicity of some of the rogue elements. I think it's an easier format for friends to play together, since you can just start a new mission and all be in the same (space)boat. I am definitely the kind of player that will die a lot and lose my guns, so I'd rather it be okay if I don't waste time going back to get them repeatedly. But I'm trying to be open minded.

[distant estuary]

This is way more complicated than "the resistance takes your extra stuff and pays you for it "

[mortal isle]

5. ^

[devout apex]

In the game today the resistance pays you for all items that are left in the ship when returning to the hangar. The items you have in your inventory are kept.

Wether you start a mission with some items or empty handed will mostly only matter if you’re really pushing your difficulty boundaries.

It’s not supposed to feel like you have to grind to get equipment before taking on a specific mission in order to make it.

[heavy tulip]

It would be really cool to have a 'resistance resources' metric in which we could see their readiness stat increase. Maybe even a later mission type of rescuing more flesh bags for the resistance too. And it could be something that NPCs talk about like, "thanks to your efforts, the resistance is more than ready to take on the core." But that's just a thought. Don't waste time working on that vs other stuff.

[ashen swallow]

Just in case folks missed it

[tender ledge]

I lean towards the idea of having a setup such that during the run you can gain temporary buffs or equipment, but at the end of a successful run you receive a permanent component or item or boost, which after acquiring sufficient ones you are able to tackle more difficult runs.
Just depends on how many different difficulties would exist to enable such progression. My view might be biased since I come from an mmo (WoW) where we have normal dungeons, heroic, mythic, and mythic+ , and you need gear from one to be able to tackle the other, with continued progression in difficulty and reward.

[distant estuary]

You get materials and credits for things turned in

Not gear

You upgrade your ships and components

[tender ledge]

that's sufficient. what i'm wondering though is if there will be difficulty progression scaling that puts the new components to good use ;p

[distant estuary]

There were 5 difficulties in the demo

[ashen swallow]

You were able to already see this in Dif 5 missions with an non-upgraded catamaran, or non-upgraded components.

Being able to kill things faster with the guns makes a huge difference in survivability