Adjust weapon swap cast time

[atomic acorn]

😂 advanced any day now I'm sure

[hexed kindle]

advanced when

[scarlet swallow]

Not any time but that is the intended thing

[sweet nexus]

Let’s keep the game in a bad spot for 10 years for twin lions

[scarlet swallow]

I already talked to rory about PP

He said PP is the weapon for GF

[atomic acorn]

then re-balance in 2030 when advanced arrive, lets keep the game alive til then by balancing what we currently have

[scarlet swallow]

And it is meant to be like it is now

[graceful sage]

No end game swords are lol

[scarlet swallow]

Cast time with long CD

Later it gets lion palm

[atomic acorn]

"don't worry, its broken now because we're planning on buffing it"

[scarlet swallow]

And like

[worldly halo]

Ya but MIA arc incoming

[scarlet swallow]

The average gf rn

Combos what

180 dmg with palm crusher

On 120 str

That's literally half of what it used to do

[worldly halo]

Gf combos are lame. 1 tile techniques for dmg ppl get off quicker for more everything

Only saving grace of gf is flicker combo, run

[graceful sage]

@rancid kindle here’s another suggestion

[scarlet swallow]

GF got gutted like hell literally

To the point it only works as a solo mastery or with WM

You can no longer combo anything into Palm or Crusher

Like you could before

[worldly halo]

You think there are not a lot of hyuga fans? Yet hardly any gf players outside of meta flick combo n run

[sweet nexus]

Dude is coping so hard if you think gf is gutted

[graceful sage]

I do that much standing still with a trapper by hitting one tag semi afk

[scarlet swallow]

It did get gutted hard

From what it used to be lmao

[sweet nexus]

The mastery has all 6 jutsus working. It’s hella playable

[graceful sage]

It’s name is a lie to begin with lol

[scarlet swallow]

Palm had normal dmg scaling and kb, crusher didn't selfstun, you could combo jutsu/kunai into both of them

[sweet nexus]

You only talk about the 2 jutsus yet again not the full kit

4 amazing jutsus but you rather focus on the braindead ones being used together

[hexed kindle]

please add content to this game LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[worldly halo]

Hinata is #10 on most liked naruto character

[atomic acorn]

you can do the same with pure gf + flash flicker although more difficult

meanwhile you're a 1.4k hp tank with high dmg basics

[scarlet swallow]

That's with claymore gf wm brother

[sweet nexus]

It’s not healthy for the game

Same with late game swords

[atomic acorn]

even without claymore, getting free 250+ dmg while also having good basics and high hp is not good design

[scarlet swallow]

What 4 amazing jutsu brother

Out of 5 damage jutsu that gf has

3 are cast time

[graceful sage]

Making pressure point more viable is a good idea

[scarlet swallow]

And 3 are selfstuns

[sweet nexus]

Omg cast times oh nooo

[worldly halo]

250 for a hard shot per ur words

[atomic acorn]

pressure point is the 1 jutsu gf wm's can't use, it should be the main source of gf dmg

[scarlet swallow]

16 palm and rotation are only good if u slow them with palm bottom first

And even then they can sub or flash flicker away

[atomic acorn]

atm a gf wm can do 100% of what a gf or wm can do and both gf & wm are very strong solo, its a recipe for disastor

[scarlet swallow]

Only way that is happening

Is if u make GF jutsu scale like tai jutsu which is 33%

But the melee scales 60%

[atomic acorn]

stop gf's from wanting to use weapons and stop wm's from wanting to use pressure point while balancing both

[scarlet swallow]

But then u are having 100 damage melees on gf

Which is not happening

[sweet nexus]

Come back at the end of the year for the content update cheers

[graceful sage]

Ngl a melee focused fire mastery that uses the same mechanics as gf would be cool, fire punch let’s gooo

[worldly halo]

2 second swap time makes you work with one mastery all the time instead of 2 like every other mastery combo. That's what makes it unfair. And it was implemented becuz of busted meta blades and dookie PP jutsu

[atomic acorn]

but did nothing except nerf fan wm and bubble wm. I can still flicker u into retirement with a high basic high hp 0 iq acc

[worldly halo]

Despite whether you think they are strong u have to admit the mechanics are different than every other mastery layout now becuz of change

[graceful sage]

More upvotes let’s goooo over 4x the amount agree than disagree

[worldly halo]

Like I see your point zabuza. I just think a different route is needed other than weapon swap time.

[sweet nexus]

Only thing the wpn swap change was now instead of being chased by a gf with a sword after they flicker combo you they run away to equip it while your stuck slowed and silenced

[atomic acorn]

you could remove weapon swap times with my suggestion, I just think maybe finding a middle ground first would be better

[graceful sage]

Idk I kinda like Dora’s idea lmfao

Problem solved

[sweet nexus]

Dora’s idea is fun on paper but hell to implement

They would need artwork for 6 jutsus

[graceful sage]

Yea ik

[worldly halo]

I always hated two hit flick combo. And PP is so useless which causes the swords in the first place. And meta swords are busted in general. I mean is @signal temple not aware a non-mastery won CE with a blade

[sweet nexus]

I would assume he is not aware

[atomic acorn]

LOI swords need a nerf but thats a totally different issue

[scarlet swallow]

the issue is

gf doesn't need a weapon to cast jutsu

and that won't change

[sweet nexus]

It’s for another topic

[scarlet swallow]

so it's better to nerf GF in some way

Imo crusher should be cast time

and palm should get buffed a bit

[worldly halo]

It relates when it connects with other str masteries.

[sweet nexus]

Palm is a 3x3 in front of you that slows it does not need changes

[atomic acorn]

any buff u give to gf also buffs gf wm, other than pressure point~

[sweet nexus]

At instant cast

Tier 1 jutsu and compare it to mid river

[worldly halo]

Broken LOI is only reason weapon swap happened tho

If gf was using a reli ppl wouldnt care

[atomic acorn]

gf wm was braindead top tier long before loi

[graceful sage]

Which is why I agree with u zabuza

[scarlet swallow]

yea but I suggested buffs to PP

literally a few weeks ago

and to nerf the jutsu

but rory said it's meant to be like that

[worldly halo]

For two hit combo

[graceful sage]

If y’all want change post this crapfest in ur disc servers and get more attention even then idk if it’ll change but worth a shot

[atomic acorn]

You can make pressure point the main jutsu while still having it as high risk high reward like rory wants

atm its not high risk, its pointless.

Why bother using it when u can just equip a sword that is better and not 300 second cooldown

[scarlet swallow]

yea but at some point

[worldly halo]

Having to charge for pp in the first place makes no sense. It should not be a buff imo

[scarlet swallow]

if you buff PP to the level where it's better than using a sword

won't the gf wms just not use swords

and play full gf

[worldly halo]

Z just needs a dmg cap

[scarlet swallow]

The issue is not PP being bad cause it really isn't

Swords are too good

and they are still way too easy to swap to

[atomic acorn]

wm's are already basic dependent, their jutsu are terrible outside of crescent

[worldly halo]

Swords should not scale dmg.

[atomic acorn]

you have 1 mastery that is basic dependent and the other is jutsu dependent.
Make both basic dependent and suddenly its not best of 2 op masteries but a mix of the pro's / con's

[sweet nexus]

Nah I would say crescent isn’t that good anymore due to flash flicker. Only good str wm jutsu is wild slashes imo

[atomic acorn]

lmao my point still stands xD

[sweet nexus]

Yea str wm has been pushed to be so melee reliant

[scarlet swallow]

yea but how exactly

would u make gf melee dependant

[atomic acorn]

with pressure point

[scarlet swallow]

but how

[sweet nexus]

You need a middle ground with jutsus being usable instead of over nerfed

Currently gf is overturned on the flicker combo

[scarlet swallow]

what does pressure point offer that swords don't?

[worldly halo]

Melee masteries should have dashes.

Homings are useless and weak

[scarlet swallow]

brother wind with fan and water with pipe can do more damage with flicker

even some low ping double elementals are flickering more damage

[sweet nexus]

Brother they can be traded off of

[scarlet swallow]

how ??

[sweet nexus]

You can’t trade with a gf user

[scarlet swallow]

if they don't use a selfstun jutsu they will just burst u and dip

[sweet nexus]

They have 0 silence

Bubble barely last .7 seconds of a snare

Fan is broken in not defending that

[atomic acorn]

it doesn't need to offer anything that swords doesn't.

It locks people out of things, with my suggested changes, a gf wm would be a wm with weak gf jutsu but not PP as it gets removed when u equip a sword.
a gf / gf non-wm hybrid would be a low dmg gf jutsu, decent basics and whatever pro's the other mastery brings

[scarlet swallow]

but gf won't work with low damage jutsu

too many selfstuns

[worldly halo]

And chakra charging

no hp

[atomic acorn]

yes it would, we already have wm as an example of something basic dependent

[scarlet swallow]

but wm has way higher melee damage for much lower investment

[worldly halo]

Wm/hybrids are not the same as tai/hybrids ngl

[atomic acorn]

if self stuns make gf feel weak after the change, simply remove the self stun

[scarlet swallow]

but there already is

a melee dependant taijutsu

agility is that

strength is jutsu dependant

[atomic acorn]

ah you're right, 2 masteries can't be similar, lets just leave the game as a broken mess, mb

[scarlet swallow]

and you'd need to buff Pressure point hella lot

for gf melee to be able to match

tai melee

[sweet nexus]

Jutsu dependent means using all jutsu. Using 2 jutsu is not dependent

[scarlet swallow]

brother wind literally wins

using homing and claw only

[sweet nexus]

You got sub for homing and if they claw you they self stunned themselves in front of you

[scarlet swallow]

it's GF in elemental version

[sweet nexus]

You can also Cancel the homing

Can you cancel any of gf abilities?

No

Except pressure point needle

[scarlet swallow]

4 out of 6 gf jutsu

are cast times

so yea u can cancel them

[sweet nexus]

1s cast times

[scarlet swallow]

u would need to buff pressure point too much

to be able to compete with tai and gf melee

if the jutsu get nerfed

[atomic acorn]

atm wm and gf completely fix the issues with the other mastery

[scarlet swallow]

you people want

60% scaling melee

to be a thing?

[atomic acorn]

I'd need to check what the scaling is currently.

[scarlet swallow]

it's like 30%

and has 12 base damage

[sweet nexus]

You know other numbers exist right?

Than just 30% and 60%

Base damage can get increased

Or goes up to 45% scaling and see how that plays

[scarlet swallow]

if the jutsu are doing low damage it needs to do a lot more than what it does now

50-60% scaling

[atomic acorn]

45% is more than 30%

[scarlet swallow]

is the only way it compensates

[atomic acorn]

quick math

[scarlet swallow]

yea so u melee 66 on 120 str

while wms melee 90-100

and u have crap jutsu dmg now

tai would melee faster while having a much better kit

so why would u even play gf

[atomic acorn]

1 str scaling allows u to kite and time basics
2 agi scales with 0 other masteries while str scales with wm

[scarlet swallow]

the design of GF is

that it is much slower than tai

but hits much harder

[worldly halo]

Agi med is stronger and agi works better with hybrids cuz of range

[graceful sage]

I hit harder on my chakra med tai

And faster

[atomic acorn]

stop saying the design

Just because something was designed to be 1 way doesn't mean its not terrible design

[scarlet swallow]

bro gf literally hits half of what it used to on flicker

and people are still crying

while we have 75% scaling traps

and elementals bursting way more than gf can

[sweet nexus]

Hits mountain crusher and palm bottom

[scarlet swallow]

some people will never be happy

[sweet nexus]

Hits everyone it still does

[atomic acorn]

You say this while complaining about the game's balance on a daily basis

[worldly halo]

Only good jutsu gf ever had

[sweet nexus]

That’s just cap though

[scarlet swallow]

16 palm and rotation got nerfed

[sweet nexus]

All the jutsus perform well in the right hands

[scarlet swallow]

vacuum palm got nerfed

palm and crusher got gutted

[sweet nexus]

Yami is just not the right hands and believe it should be balanced around him

[graceful sage]

Get back on baltazar Atleast then I can pretend the stupid stuff you say is someone else saying it

[worldly halo]

Been playing persona since 2018

[atomic acorn]

They got nerfed because of gf wm. The thing I am trying to nerf right now while reworking gf and you're arguing against

[worldly halo]

It working and it being competitive are two diff things

[scarlet swallow]

they got nerfed cause GF itself was broken af

even now the flicker combo is still cheese

I think gf wm wouldn't be that strong if the palm+crusher combo got removed

cause the gf wms don't use anything other than that

[worldly halo]

Honestly wish they would remove palm mc at this point

[atomic acorn]

If you buff them, they would use them

[worldly halo]

So people can see

[scarlet swallow]

vacuum 16 palm and rotation are fine tho

they are just pretty situational

but the palm crusher combo is perfect for gf wm

since they can just burst with that and swap to some op LoI sword

to melee u after

u take 180 damage from the gf flicker

and 500 dmg from wm melee

but somehow it's the gf flicker that's the issue

[sweet nexus]

It’s 250 due to kunai damage

[scarlet swallow]

then the crusher needs a change if it's making some people land guranteed kunai

[sweet nexus]

Like it’s been said previously theirs ways to do it without gutting the mastery.

1. Like you said yami make mountain crusher a run cast which would be interesting to see play out.
2. Remove the silence off mountain crusher instead giving chance for trades to happen
3. Outright rework them (not gonna happen)

There’s more too but this really deserves its own post

Instead of being talked about on weapon swap

[scarlet swallow]

Well I made a post

[graceful sage]

Yeah cause getting off topic some

[rough iris]

the fact that theres so many messages in this thread kinda show that it should be changed back or at least not as hard of a nerf

1.3k messages is crazy

[atomic acorn]

I apparently convinced yami to make GF PP focused, convincing rory should be light work now

[amber kiln]

As I said before, I don't know why this is being treated as something game breaking, make the change and see the community response after, if its bad then revert and move on to a better solution

I just feel like the community is talking in circles and half of we say is pointless if frequent trial and error isn't being done

[sweet nexus]

The change happened 4 months ago and we seen what 2 sec wpn swap did to the masteries

[scarlet swallow]

Maybe what Rory wanted was to make those mastery combos not good

Which in my opinion is a good thing cause as long as WM+Hidden Mastery is viable

It's much better to go that than any other wm hybrid cause there is no stat split

[graceful sage]

here here

[amber kiln]

That's what I'm saying, why have people who keep your game alive frustrated for months about a simple change that's still a nerf but not as harsh, if its bad then the community will speak up just like we are doing now, it doesn't mean do what we say or else, and that we are always right but again, something this simple should have at least have been tried so we can move the topic of discussion to something else

Waiting for a balance patch every 6+ months isn't ideal or fair when builds take nerfs like this, especially if it's so called experimental

[graceful sage]

esp when the community offered other better ways to experiment with it

[little stag]

Don’t do it stay strong I feel your pain

[sweet nexus]

Just falling on deaf ears

[graceful sage]

i refuse that notion we will make a change!!

[sweet nexus]

Hope so too

Post like this show peeps do care

[graceful sage]

and if its ignored after 1.3k comments, it speaks volumes

[little stag]

Yeah cause I been going through it without my bubble wm 😩

[graceful sage]

we could always riot

[little stag]

It was my fault

We should

I would do a full bubble combo to a crescent and wm combo Lmaoo

But ngl it’s unplayable with the 2 sec cast ngl

Bubble isn’t even all that for it to have been nerfed with wm tbh

I actually chose bubble cause it was the least used and I wanted to be unique

[graceful sage]

not to mention the many bugs it has, https://discord.com/channels/615663613822238731/1224371959060496635

[little stag]

If anything foreal foreal for tai and gf melee you shouldn’t even be able to hold down z

The hits should be timed delayed just like swords

Now all you got is ppl holding down z and chasing you doesn’t require any skill at all

[little stag]

With bubble buddy I actually used ot a lot

[graceful sage]

one miracle at a time lol

[little stag]

Lol

The 9 z holders or high int pray and shooters make me laugh

[spice jackal]

That's pretty much how all games work tbh ppl who can't aim usually gravitate towards close range

[little stag]

Yeah I agree with you but at least allow it to have like timing to where you have to press z at least not hold it

[graceful sage]

[sweet nexus]

Just ain’t happening dawg

[graceful sage]

cant say im surprised, this why i see 44 ppl online on average a day, bad decisions ig

[graceful sage]

47 votes the average player base online I see when I log in, and 3/4ths of them all saying the same thing, crazyyy

[spice jackal]

waiting for macOS release to start playing again

[little stag]

yea

getting worse

im about almost done

[signal temple]

I don't know what to say to this except trying to say that because the one change you want made to the game isn't added the whole playerbase is leaving is delulu and Nin's current daily active player base is still at a pretty high level compared to where it was a year ago and more than double where it was in 2022.

If you actually think 47 people voting for a balance change is indicative of the death of the game, you certainly don't know what the average Nin player cares about. You're here in a discord server largely populated by players who are locked into one play style and are focused on end game PvP and thinking that one balance change kills the game because it breaks one of the most over-used, unintended and unsustainable to balance play styles in the game. The only way we can reasonably keep this in is if all swords and weapons continue to be useless reskins and stat changes of one another.

[amber kiln]

I don't play a weapon swap build but can you explain or give reason why 1's weapon cast cant be implemented, on the outside looking in, people who chose this build path aren't happy

Let us know what your thought process is

[atomic acorn]

The change doesn't break gf wm in any way, it just made it more annoying to play, its not any weaker now than before.
It did break fan wm & bubble wm.

[scarlet swallow]

Yea cause GF doesn't need a weapon to cast jutsu it only needs to cast to equip sword, it can take off sword to instantly use GF jutsu

So it didn't change much, they flicker combo with gf, equip sword to melee, when gf combo is back up they can instantly take off sword to use it

Or when someone uses some cast time jutsu they can take off sword instantly and then quickly use gf jutsu to cancel

Need to tweak the changes so that GF/WM is nerfed equally as well

[scarlet swallow]

Read what he said

The playstyle was unintended and unsustainable to balance

it should remain as nerfed as it is now, with gf/wm recieving more nerfs

or simply keep it as it is now and just make gf/wm equally nerfed as the rest

those combos were too strong and with stronger weapons eventually coming out would keep becoming more and more of a balance issue

The game is not perfectly balanced

So it is normal some stuff will get nerfed

WM+Hidden mastery was a balance issue for a long time and it's not unusal that for a playstyle that was unintended and broken to get taken out of the game

since it makes balancing those masteries/weapons easier

Hidden masteries already have a separate stat which is strength

The only issue was it is also the stat of weapon mastery

Which is why this change was done, it was unsustainable to balance them when things like gf/wm weren't thought of in the initial balance

He has talked about wanting to remove it for years already

Only issue was always the fact u can instantly swap weapons

Nothing else

In my opinion it should be even harder to switch weapon

Seeing how GF/WM can still easily swap to sword

I think once you are in combat u should be stuck with the weapon u have equipped

If the goal is really to take these combos out of the game

A good change would be to make it so that you cannot change weapon while in combat @signal temple

[eternal pelican]

I think a possible fix could be reduce the cast time to 1s, but ,add a cast time to equip and unequip, because atm a GF / wm can unequip instantly and cast GF combo - so making it 1s on, 1s off works possibly better

hell if it was me I would make it 2s unequip and 2s equip

[scarlet swallow]

I think not being able to swap weapon while in combat is the best solution

Nerfs all of those combos equally

And makes it so you have to stick with the weapon u have when u enter combat

No swapping between claymore and yamazaru mid fight

No cast time to equip weapon

[eternal pelican]

🤐

[scarlet swallow]

But once u are in combat u can't change weapons

[eternal pelican]

yeye trap girl😇

tbh this is a great idea lol, this would c u c k gf /wm

[sweet nexus]

^

This actually does something to keep gf/wm in check while also harming the other two hidden mastery + wm combo than what currently it is

[graceful sage]

Don’t bother dudes

The fact that he thinks 48 ppl aren’t the average nin player and doesn’t think we understand what the average player cares about and that there isn’t between 40-65 ppl online on average most hours of the day idk how to get thru to him about it so just give up. It’s nice to know that we 38 ppl aren’t the average nin players even tho we have been playing his game more than him for years and spend a lot of money on it.

[scarlet swallow]

You obviously haven't read what he said brother

[graceful sage]

I read it and it’s obvious he didn’t read any of our comments on different ideas instead of a two second it seems like he read the title then responded when there was some better ideas to adjust not revert

[scarlet swallow]

There is no adjustment to this

Other than making it even harder to swap

[graceful sage]

What I read is him saying 38 out of the average 40-65 ppl online everyday aren’t the average

[scarlet swallow]

The purpose of the change was to make these combos not playable

[graceful sage]

It’s nice to know none of us know what we want

[scarlet swallow]

U want your broken combo to be playable again

[graceful sage]

Yami hush you live on nin and are the most delusional person I’ve ever talked to in my life lol

[scarlet swallow]

Which is not good for the balance of the game

[graceful sage]

Ah yes because I play broken combos every day

My earth med main, my bubble med, my light int, my int wm med

This game is trapper/chidori online rn

[sweet nexus]

Yes we get that; the issue is only 2 of the 3 are unplayable

He’s not addressing the elephant in the room being gf/wm being unaffected in the slightest

[graceful sage]

Yami got what he wanted dw no weapon swapping in combat is next let’s go

[sweet nexus]

I’ve given up in trying to make fan/wm and bubble/wm have some kind of chance of being a thing

[sweet nexus]

Nah next is some crackhead buffs for whatever mastery he is currently playing

[graceful sage]

What I want the most is the five bubble bugs to be fixed tbh

[sweet nexus]

I thought we counted it to 6

It’s some high fcking number

[scarlet swallow]

Which is why I said

[graceful sage]

Light buff incoming again, like u can’t go into dz and get quad chidoried every time or have to wait thirty min for a village to stop sitting behind traps

[scarlet swallow]

The best solution to this

Is to make weapons not swappable while in combat

Nerfs all of them equally

[graceful sage]

I wish we could nerf ur ability to speak

[sweet nexus]

Anytime I step onto a trap the log off button seems so much more appealing

[graceful sage]

Everytime out solo hunting when there’s 30-44 ppl online after I get off work , I run into either magi, na clan, or some other guild and get chidori 4-6 times back to back unable to get off anything besides one sub balance

[graceful sage]

What is the average number of players online at a given time, I’m not talking about how many ppl log in a day because I’m not talking about alts or the same person with ten acc, that’s not ten diff ppl

[scarlet swallow]

And people wonder why Rory doesn't like making balance changes

Look how hard you are crying brother even after he told you why exactly the change was made

[graceful sage]

Cause I get on between noon and 2 pm est every day on lunch break and I’ve seen the number 44 more times than I can count, when an auto tourny hits I see it up to 65 ish and every few months when I see a kage election or akat tourny I see about 85 but those happen rarely , and after work about six pm or seven I see maybe sixty on a good day I wonder what the real average number is

Yami after seeing you cry relentlessly in ningen over anything u feel is broken I wouldn’t be talking or you’ll have to go make a new alt and pretend to be someone that hasn’t played in years while u upvote ur own posts and comments ur a troglodyte and literally no one on this game calls you their friend or thinks u make any sense when u speak, id pipe down

[scarlet swallow]

Crazy how hurt you are

[graceful sage]

lol

[scarlet swallow]

The man spelled it out for you

[graceful sage]

Cope

[scarlet swallow]

The playstyle was unintended and unsustainable to balance

The 2 sec cast was made to make the combos not playable

[graceful sage]

And here we are still unbalanced with gf wm being barely effected

Great change

[scarlet swallow]

Then it needs to be changed further

[graceful sage]

You’re missing the point

[scarlet swallow]

Make it so that weapons can't be swapped in combat

[graceful sage]

That’s the whole point of this thread are u dense we want adjustment

But someone didn’t read any of it

[scarlet swallow]

You want it to be changed to 1 sec

which would make the combos playable

[graceful sage]

We gave three diff adjustments

[scarlet swallow]

but the point of the change was to remove those combos

[graceful sage]

Then delete wm lol problem solved

Way more balanced that way

We can just keep it chidori/trap online and have everyone play the same masteries for perfect balance and harmony

[sweet nexus]

It’s not like peeps play wm for the jutsus anyway

Masteryless with a sword is about the same thing

It’s gonna just stay that way unfortunately

[graceful sage]

Don’t give ur ideas they won’t be read or considered we all aren’t the average nin player and don’t know what we want

[spice jackal]

That's actually not a bad idea

[graceful sage]

If that happens they need to add jutsus to the masteries that are gonna turn into pure masteries and then balance and fix the bugs they bring not gonna happen

Hard not to be when he writes of 40 ppl off his game as not actual average players when we are all the ones that log in every day and se about 40-65 ppl online

[scarlet swallow]

you are not reading with comprehension

[graceful sage]

How many ppl are online atm are u in game?

[scarlet swallow]

these 40 people are exactly the average players

[signal temple]

Peak hours is still 80+ as of yesterday.

The 40 people actively complaining about their build being nerfed is the least of my concern when it comes to the longevity of the game.

And that’s how it’s always been and that’s why 10 years on Nin is still thriving, and meanwhile, all other indie MMOs are dying within a couple of years

Meanwhile, even AAA MMOs sometime struggle to hit our daily active users and die within months

[graceful sage]

Peak ok and what’s the average so far today I’ve seen 50 online and 40 of them are prob the ppl in here you just said weren’t the average players that don’t know what the average wants

Peak lasts maybe a few min a day during the auto events that most of them log in for then log back off

[signal temple]

Average 40-50 throughout the day if not the norm is considered high for Nin relative to what it’s been through the years

I don’t give a fuck what the average player who exists now wants in Nin because keeping them happy by not nerfing their playstyle at the cost of ruining all future development is stupid and is the reason why games like WoW have to reboot the entire game after a decade

I’m working on Nin constantly not for the people here today but for the people who will be here tomorrow

If you only care what your end game pvp looks like for the 40 existing players you care about, then good luck and have fun pvping with the same 40 people who will eventually die out and stop playing

Because the 40 people who will be playing rn are not the same 20 people who care 2 years ago that I had to ignore and nerf their playstyles so you can enjoy pvp now

[graceful sage]

Could you click the upvotes, then check names and tell me all of those ppl don’t log in every day for hours a day

[signal temple]

That’s how it’s always been. Go look through the forums of people whining and bitchjng about balance and see how much better it is now

I don’t give a fuck who they are

I’m telling you the game is only going to get better with these changes and this is how it has to be

And if you don’t believe me just look at the state of balance a few years ago and compare it to now

I really don’t think I need to prove myself 10 years in that I know how to improve the game

I’ve been balancing the game for a decade now and every change it gets better and when I add things there is logic and reason behind it

If you don’t see it, I don’t care because the people who will see it will see it when it all falls into place.

And then I’ll reference this post when it makes sense as an example of the shit I have to go through to argue my balance changes existence to players looking at everything from the lens of their own characters being nerfed

[graceful sage]

Rory no offense but the average players online hasn’t really changed that much in years, there’s no promotional stuff going on besides sitting in coming soon on steam there’s no advertising etc , it’s the same community that there was six years ago and you said you’ve been working on this for a decade now, yes the game has improved but it hasn’t brought players to the game that stays and after ten years of that maybe start trying to come up with some word of mouth type advertising if it’s not viable to spend money promoting it.

[signal temple]

You’re blind

[graceful sage]

10 years, a decade of working on this game and you still don’t have more than 200 peak players logging on every single day and I’m blind? You just said you don’t care about who we are and we aren’t the ones logging in every day and prob won’t be here tomorrow. With that kind of sentiment why would people keep supporting this

[signal temple]

We literally have close to a 1000 new registrations every month and over 500 visitors to the site each day from one ad source. Our issue is not new people. Our issue is retaining new people, and the only way I can fix that is by focusing on the quality of the game.

[graceful sage]

Those are alts bro

They’re not individual ppl

[signal temple]

You realize that most indie MMOs have 0-1 players online until peak hours for a couple of hours they have maybe 20 people

LOL

You’re saying 40 people are creating thousands of alts a month???

[graceful sage]

U can’t fill a community of 100 ppl and think it’s thousands cause they made new chars

[signal temple]

You’re insane

[graceful sage]

U honestly think 1000 ppl came and made a char and ur still at 50 ppl average

[signal temple]

Yes

Because that’s how it is, I’m giving you the stats

[scarlet swallow]

Rory save your sanity

and don't argue with this guy

[signal temple]

That’s how player acquisition is like

[scarlet swallow]

not worth the time

[graceful sage]

lol ok

[signal temple]

My job is increasing player retention rates

[rugged gyro]

looool

[graceful sage]

And in ten years we still at 50 ppl average do something diff?

[rugged gyro]

as OP of this post I feel bad on how it went lmaoo

[signal temple]

And retaining your 40 friends is the e least of my fucking worries because I need to work on things that make new players want to stay like not having stupidly broken unintended play styles that 40 people use to dominate end game pvp

[signal temple]

Thats not a low number for Nin or indie MMOs if you think thats supposed to be offensive

[graceful sage]

Like light int wm

[eternal pelican]

preach brother

[signal temple]

That’s literally making my day

Having 50 people online average is a feat

[rugged gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/pout-christian-bale-american-psycho-kissy-face-nod-gif-4860124

[eternal pelican]

Light is perfectly fine atm

[signal temple]

Ragnarok Online 2 had less than those numbers and died after a year

[willow orchid]

GG @signal temple, you just advanced to level 45!

[graceful sage]

Well I’m glad it’s making ur day I’ll check in with u in ten more years to see if we are at more than 50 average players

[signal temple]

And that was a multimillion dollar project

[spice jackal]

Maple story 2 ;-;

[rugged gyro]

maple story 2 always in my heart

[signal temple]

That’s what I was told 7 years ago when people said Nin was dying when the average player count was half of this and was also an all time high

[scarlet swallow]

was good while it lasted

[signal temple]

all of this is documented on the forum, the players crying end of the world with every change, and saying how all their friends and quitting so the game is dying

There’s literally a dozen of these posts across the years just saying rip Nin is dying

And yet my stats have always just showed and upward trend

First time I’ve heard all my monthly registrations were his 40 friends making 20 alts each

They apparently also go to our ads and leave comments every day and click the ad links for me too

[graceful sage]

“Player retention is my job “
“Retaining 40 players is the least of my worries”

[signal temple]

Not those players

The players who join daily

[graceful sage]

Lmao ok Rory

[signal temple]

Not the ones who are fixated over their characters being nerfed at the expense of all future development

[rugged gyro]

some of them are just trolls but most of long term players had such time. the diff is the way u handle it, I was mad many times but always cameback to Nin cuz It's one of the most stable games when it comes to players

[signal temple]

All I can say is if you want more content you’re actively working against it rn

[graceful sage]

U refuse to look at the names of the upvotes to see that those players do in fact log in for hours every day for over six years and say oh not those players

[scarlet swallow]

Who cares what some bozos who cry about their op mastery being nerfed think

[signal temple]

Yes, not those players. 100%.

[rugged gyro]

@graceful sage u fighting with stats gathered tru forum, ad services and so on. You can't really deny Nin is growing and for indie mmo It's really good. 5min scrolling tru Steam mmorpg category should let u realize that indie mmos are having lifespan of 3 months at best

[graceful sage]

Here u go these are ur long time supporters ur saying u don’t care about 100%

Have a good day

[signal temple]

Im very thankful that there are people who play Nin for 6 years. But Nin is and has always been made for the people who will come tomorrow (and that’s what they like too whether they see it or not)

[graceful sage]

Like everyone in that vid

We all log in daily for years

But ok

[signal temple]

The point you are arguing with me right now is one that is counter to future considerations and im telling you will only make the game worse off

[graceful sage]

So is saying u don’t care about some of your biggest supporters

Seems like we both are making things worse

[signal temple]

The reason Nin is the game they’ve been enjoying for 6 years is because I have and always been this guy, the one who cares enough about the game to make balance changes that will upset a handful of people for the sake of the game

[graceful sage]

I’m just glad I see u interacting with player ideas channel no sarcasm it’s nice to know it’s not just a recycling bin to get ppl out of staffs hair so I do appreciate that

[rugged gyro]

@graceful sage I personally dm'd Rory about this change 2 times and tried to give reasoning for changing it even to 1s swap cast but It's just our opinion... and in the end Rory's changes are making game better so I don't mind swapping mastery or trying diff playstyle with it even after being nerfed.

[signal temple]

If those people like Nin, they should know the game continues to be in safe hands and I have not began milking them of their time and money and continue to care deeply about the games future, enough so to make difficult decisions that have always and will always only lead to a better future for the game. They know the game is in a way better place than 6 years ago in every aspect because they’ve lived it.

[spice jackal]

Can weapons swap get a combat lock along side the 2sec swap

[sweet nexus]

my issue with the change was it targetted 3 of the hidden masteries "abusing" this but only 2 out of three are currentyle affected

Gf/wm is still not affected by the change

[rugged gyro]

ye gf/wm should be treated same way so It will be fair B-)

[spice jackal]

Combat lock along side the 2 sec

[sweet nexus]

either that or make unequipping have a cast time as well

[graceful sage]

We already suggested a lot of things ur resuggesting stuff he read and considered just don’t

U don’t matter anyway Grimm u won’t be here tomorrow

[sweet nexus]

Well nows the time to bring it up since hes here

[signal temple]

If I literally only cared about my pockets, I would not be out here making these difficult offensive decisions for the betterment of the game and to make way for future content at the expense of offending existing customers. As I always have, this is for the sake of the continued longevity of the game, and the fact Nin Online is not just still alive after 10 years and thriving, is a testament to that. The fact that there’s even players who have been around this whole time is insane.

I’ve already seen the GF/WM complaints and I agree with them

[graceful sage]

Have u seen the multitude of just bubble bugs ppl complained about I counted like six including poison pipe not poisoning and not being able to cast bubble clone on water as a mistie

[signal temple]

The thing is it’s already intended to be nerfed, this is all part of the games design. The moment we release combo masteries, all elementals would’ve had elemental combo jutsus, whereas GF and WM would not.

Same with Fan/Wm

And all the weapon swap combos

That goes into bug reports if you care about them to be tracked

[graceful sage]

https://discord.com/channels/615663613822238731/1224371959060496635 people have reported it for how long now? Months ? Minimum

[signal temple]

That’s not bug reports

[graceful sage]

I’ll get on that tho

[signal temple]

But reports is on the forum

I don’t track bug reports here

[graceful sage]

I’ll redo it again in forums even tho it’s been in there before long ago

[signal temple]

These are for ideas

Each bug should be its own post too

Don’t make lists of bugs as one bug tracker

[graceful sage]

Bet hope ur ready for some good reading there’s a lot of bugs so that’s a lot of posts

[signal temple]

Yeah sure

[sweet nexus]

would a video of the bug be helpful for it as well?

[graceful sage]

Ofc

[signal temple]

The track record for bug reports of the forum being dealt with is like 400 to 50 now I think

[graceful sage]

Question if bubble clone is bugged with 3 diff bugs is that three posts or one post for the jutsu

[signal temple]

609 to 73

3 posts

[graceful sage]

Awesome ty

[signal temple]

There’s instructions on the submission platform

https://www.ninonline.com/forum/issues/?show=categories

Videos help and steps to replicate

[sweet nexus]

Thanks for helping resolve the issues

[eternal pelican]

Can we close this thread LOL

[graceful sage]

I believe He wanted it to stay here for when someone else has an opinion on the matter so he doesn’t have to repeat himself

[rugged gyro]

I can keep it but disable new comments

[graceful sage]

Quick before harmony talks

[spice jackal]

Disable it after Someone suggesting a combat lock on weapon swapping

[graceful sage]

.<

[spice jackal]

Not fast enough

[graceful sage]

I’ll have the last word

Quick delp