Carmilla - Discussion Thread

[fiery garnet]

its completely different

[teal zodiac]

Dude that's not what I'm talking about

[fiery garnet]

or im getting crazy

[leaden adder]

yeah, what you're talking about are ult upgrades, they're talents that specifically enhances the ult, they aren't ults themselves

[teal zodiac]

No that's not what I'm talking about

I've seen Mel's ult in the shop I just never take it

[leaden adder]

because i agree with cerberfox on this one, i've never once seen an ult in there (and there isn't enough spots to hold an ult tbh, 9 spots, but 10 talents if you count the ult)

[teal zodiac]

And yet I have so do with that as you will

[leaden adder]

it's likely that you mistook it for another talent

[teal zodiac]

No i didn't

[leaden adder]

if it does ever happen again, i wouldn't mind seeing a screen or whatever, i've never had that myself so i find it hard to believe :/

[fiery garnet]

im just sure ults cant be upgraded

cuz its ult

look it doesnt have rarity text under icon

like other talents do

[teal zodiac]

If I remember I shall take a photo

[leaden adder]

thx!

[fiery garnet]

my game just crashed

on best run i have ever had on her

why 🥲

im tilted

why it cant just load me from chapter start

why should i lose the run to crash even without the error

my game just closed

[obsidian spire]

In short - defensive build is op and fun, power build fun, has great damage but very risky, special build is cool but initial passive feels useless against bosses, at least 50% heal against bosses would make it a good option. Initial trait passive felt the most disappointing - it does not retrigger heal/strength from demon and angel talent and does not retrigger blast wave talent, on the contrary since you are longer in winged form you will benefit less from these talents. Worst talent - +x% to blood reserve, the rest are +-fine

[craggy crow]

I should only use the bats fly(defense) when using traits form to do damage why? Does it consume less blood?

[fiery garnet]

u dont consume blood in trait

she just drain 9 blood per second

instead

[fossil laurel]

I gotta do a full attack build with the blood whips

[last lava]

Does Gust get two activations with the starter talent that allows her to activate trait twice?

[placid plaza]

https://youtu.be/0KzS3HxCt-Y?si=CmiZebQIN5x_JbdL&t=2490
it doesn't

[last lava]

also based on the wording of the talent that makes power deal more damage when blood is spent to maintain it, it doesn't seem like it should work in trait. does it?

[fossil laurel]

It does

[last lava]

I outsmarted myself

[fossil laurel]

I'm assuming it does because her ultimate gets the blood buff when she's on trait

It would be kinda counter-intuitive if it didn't work

But it's very vague

[placid plaza]

I think this is a good screenshot to show the contradictory design nature of the character:
the critical damage, and the bleed

[teal zodiac]

As someone else said it consumes no blood so you're able to fly through mobes multiple times over

[last lava]

finally found success with her with a special build

[fiery garnet]

they lowered score right?

is 725 good score now?

im surprised i didnt unlocked her secret skin

i saw on reddit that it requires to be in trait for 1 minute

or around that

i think i did that but im not sure

also maybe reddit is wrong

im changing my mind

defense is probably her strongest build

[last lava]

with the talent that sends out piercing bats in defense?

[placid plaza]

have you not seen the dash ultimate combo ?

[fiery garnet]

nope

just the fact that u can hold defense infinitely with starter talent is insane

[placid plaza]

#1288785490266292306 message

[fiery garnet]

thats dash attack ?

or what?

u can do dash attack with this ult?

[placid plaza]

it comes online at lvl 10, so you're free to play whatever you want as long as you have
dmg on bleeding enemies
bleed with attack
dash = combo attack

[fiery garnet]

oh i see

got it now

[placid plaza]

https://youtu.be/pV7x3ac-oMU?si=a1jcLrQGZCGdktjo&t=2894
start of the combo

dmg on bleeding/bleed on attack is pretty much something that you can have regardless of the build

[fiery garnet]

u always break the game in different ways so i not surprised

[fossil laurel]

It is, you're gonna need the dash talent to do it tho

[fiery garnet]

i had 4 specials

with 3 sec cd

[placid plaza]

that should do the trick, provided there are enough enemies around to keep killing !

[fossil laurel]

Ah, then in that case maybe you lost your trait before reaching jt

[fiery garnet]

my dmg was just to big to keep stacking blood

[fiery garnet]

probably

[fossil laurel]

But you can just go on adventure mode , get the dash at level 2 and keep stacking it on a group of ghouls

[wet axle]

Yea, you're definitely mistaken, upgrading ult (as in the lvl 5 talent) was never a thing since the game first dropped

[fossil laurel]

I did mine that way, it's pretty easy

I did 3 minutes to make sure tho

[fiery garnet]

would be cool if u received ingame message that u have unlocked skin

[fossil laurel]

But the time is either 1 or 2 minutes

[fiery garnet]

so

whats that

that tallent reroll killed my build in that run btw :D

[wet axle]

Only thing i can say is that it's a glitch

[fiery garnet]

definitely

[wet axle]

When did that pop up anyway? Did you buy the thing in the shop that allows you to reroll all talents?

[fiery garnet]

i just cant understand why numbers are so big

[fiery garnet]

i bought it before baba yaga

i was missing homing bats talent

so i was just praying for it

and got this instead

[wet axle]

i see, yea, there might be some weird shenanigans with her ult and the full reroll then

[fiery garnet]

@placid plaza like look at my stats

[last lava]

she has a talent that does more damage on bleeding enemies?

[fiery garnet]

its not bad either

[fiery garnet]

yes

+40-100% crit dmg

vs bleeding

[last lava]

oh sadism

[fiery garnet]

and thats for everything

[placid plaza]

ultimate base dmg is pretty big
then crits come in
then bleeding enemy talent 2x
then talent final combo 3x
then lvl 10 talent come in 4x ?
I didn't even look at the numbers, when stacking multipliers it's unnecessary
also dash stacks of eternal rose

[teal zodiac]

Nope im not I've seen it in the shop

[wet axle]

Man, i kinda wish the homing bats happened while trait is active instead of being tied to defense

[fiery garnet]

yeah

i think base ult dmg is just busted

so scaling is insane

cuz i just saw my special crit 4.1k

when yours was 3.9k

[placid plaza]

eternal rose probably ?

was bleed applied ? I didn't check my stats but yeah I don't think I was close to 400

[teal zodiac]

Her ult dmg is ridiculous

[fiery garnet]

both of them

but getting value from first ult is much easier tho

[teal zodiac]

I'm not the biggest fan of the second ult. It's cool but a bit more risky

Also when u get the curse that gives you lifesteal you get no lifesteal when using ult attacks

[fiery garnet]

like i just cut almost 70% of her health with just ult

[placid plaza]

2nd ult is best because you break crystal camps very quickly

[fiery garnet]

why its that big of a deal

just press power for half a sec

power breaks crystal very quickly

[placid plaza]

if you don't have power %cooldown, then you might suffer in the next fight
but yeah by the end of the game, it's reversed, I keep ult charges and use power for the crystals

[fiery garnet]

i went from
"Thats the worst character in the game"
to
"Thats one the best character in the game"

in first runs it was so disgusting to play her

i didnt had that feeling even when wukong came out XD

[placid plaza]

we've been conditioned to believe that basic attack had a purpose
Carmilla proved us wrong

[fiery garnet]

its usefull only chapter 1

only first 10 minutes tho

[fossil laurel]

I think they made her basic attacks underwhelming because her attack base talents are insanely good

[wet axle]

One thing i noticed is that at the beginning it felt like her trait was going from 100-0 in less than 4 seconds to me but now it feels like it lasts ages. Almost seems like they shadow dropped a hotfix for it tbh

[fossil laurel]

Positive ace made a video with a basic attack run with the second ultimate

And the damage was insane

[wet axle]

Either that or something i was doing made her blood pool drain faster during trait

[fiery garnet]

for me this character became much more complicated than i first thought

[fossil laurel]

She's super complicated

[fiery garnet]

i thought the only viable build is power build

[fossil laurel]

I honestly think it's gonna take some weeks or even some months for people to finally start to use her to her fullest

[fiery garnet]

but turns out power is almost the worst XD

because its so risky

[fossil laurel]

I'm dying to try her defense build

The bats seem to do really disgusting amounts of damage

[fiery garnet]

.

its insanely fun and good

[fossil laurel]

874k wow

Maybe that's what i need to win darkness with her

[wet axle]

Tbf, with the magic items you had i bet even her base attacks dealt a lot of damage lmao

[fiery garnet]

true XD

almost 400 dmg

is big amount

[teal zodiac]

Is this your gameplay!?!?

Wowzers that whip dmg

All you're missing is like 4 ult cooldowns lol

[wet axle]

That's my main issue with her, without a decent magic item build she's kinda bad
Other heroes also need them for some builds to shine, but she kinda needs them for any build she's going for

[fiery garnet]

btw her second ult counts as basic attacks?

[placid plaza]

no

[fiery garnet]

so ace doesnt work?

[teal zodiac]

Ya it's dumb

[placid plaza]

not for ace of spades, not for black lotus, not for final damage statistics

[fiery garnet]

thats sad

[teal zodiac]

Even tho it uses the attack wording in the description

[placid plaza]

he's calling it attack, but it isn't

[teal zodiac]

I do like her whip but I kinda wish it gave a time limit instead of a limited amount of attacks idk

[wet axle]

I wish it would start recharging as soon as you pop it 🥲

[fiery garnet]

that would be better

because if u are not doing full combo

u are losing value

[wet axle]

Or at least allow the second charge keep refreshing if you have 2

[fiery garnet]

thats what i would like to apply for everything in game

like

having more defense charges with defense starter talent isnt even usefull

cuz defense isnt recharging while u are holding it

and u basically can hold it infinitely out of combat with that talent

so ur second charge will probably never recharge

[wet axle]

Yep, and pretty much applies for everything in the game
If you're locked in a skill animation it pretty much locks that skill from recharging completely, even if you have more charges
Makes sense the keep that one charge not being able to refresh, but also locking the other charges feels kinda bad

[fiery garnet]

it would be broken tho if u have more than 2 charges

in my last run i would have infinite defense

in that case

[wet axle]

maybe reserve it for skills that give i-frames then and only that

[fiery garnet]

it would be better if her defense with that talent didnt just go on cd

this talent is still very very good in my opinion

the amount of time u can save with it is crazy

[wet axle]

It is most of all extremely fun (assuming you're talking about bat master)

Just need to get good at bat drifting

[fiery garnet]

yeah

hiting an enemy by accident feels kinda bad XD

honestly u can remove dmg part on this talent and it still will be good

basic defense bleed is so ridiculously small

it doesnt matter if have more

its this 2 talents what makes defense dmg good enough

[wet axle]

Yea, dispersion is the only saving grace for bleed atm

Only thing that feels somewhat meaningful

[fiery garnet]

tbh it might be one of her best talents in my opion

the bleed dmg it has is quite big

[wet axle]

I still really wish she sent the bats from aggressive flock during trait instead of defense though

[fiery garnet]

idk

on that

i couldnt get aggressive flock early enough but i think its kinda bad at the start

[wet axle]

Or maybe give her an aura where she sucks a bit of life from enemies during trait
Anything that would make it more awesome

[fiery garnet]

i wish she had more usefull talents

cuz now i feel like half of her talents is underwhelming

almost like rat talents on piper

if u dont have synergies

[fiery garnet]

unlocked hidden skin

just got lucky with legendary life tap

[uneven rivet]

On level two with the defence starter and the bleedxplosion talent I had 92 bleed dmg on a common rarity, so the starter seems to buff the bleed talent (base 60bleed from wiki)

[fiery garnet]

if it works like that

then its better than i thought

[uneven rivet]

I don't know about the bat thingy tho, didn't hit it before a3 and was lazy doing basic maths

I'll do a few start rush level 2 to comfirm that in a sec

[teal zodiac]

Agreed

[teal zodiac]

It does

I know that for a fact because I use that talent to do bat build

[uneven rivet]

I can confirm, few %dmg from levels thanks to the level 2 scaling, all common rarity
Base bleedxplosion at level 2: 62 dmg
Base bats is always 10dmg (leveling increases frequency)
With special starters, new numbers are 92 / 15

[teal zodiac]

If it increases defense dmg it increases the bleed burst

[uneven rivet]

There's no source of defense damage other than raw general damage compared to attack/special/power with aces and set bonuses, but bat starter + bleedxplosion alongside a few defense CD can outshine a special or power build somehow with little investment xd

[placid plaza]

do you have a defence based run somewhere ?
I didn't like the bats talent because it reduces visibility

[uneven rivet]

You don't really need to see when you're intangible 95% of the time tho

That's a sologame in darkness, "autre source" is other sources, somehow defence's base bleed and bleedxplosion fall into this category (defense is at zero%, only time I saw it be positive is with the bat summoning talent)
Bleedxplosion is at epic quality, without defense starter, and it nearly outshines a 65% heavy on special build

I tried it in a 3p game with friends, it outdamaged Beawulf / Scarlet with the starter + bleedxplosion + bat (during act 3) + 3 defense CD with ~60dmg in stat, 70% of my damage was defence/othersources
That's not a heavy investment, if you compare it to a 5-6 talents goldfish with infinite money multiple eggs sitting at 600%dmg

[uneven rivet]

I didn't try a full power build, I feel like it would be a pain in a3 and on moving bosses
Special with the thunderstorm from the special charges set was doing great but needs a few decent epics sadly
Defense was the easiest to gather: starter, bleedxplosion, few CD, the bat summoning and additional charges/CD on special can wait and be drafted at later acts
Didn't try the new ultimate dashing auto juice yet but it seems fun as a side piece for a build :p

[fiery garnet]

kinda full power build

defense build felt much better honestly

i died once on baba yaga 3 phase

just because i couldnt cancel power animation fast enough

baga yaga is too fast for her age XD

[fiery garnet]

and some dash attack shenanigans

[placid plaza]

I think I had a good start for the defence build, but I couldn't hold it indefinitely in fights
I was going fast which I should like, but because there's next to 0 gameplay interaction it didn't click with me

yep baba yaga is the anti power boss

[uneven rivet]

My run had 3 CD on both defense and special with a few extra charges
It's not an infinite defense build, but biting people from point blank is already close to 100% intangible because you don't have the travel time, so I was able to bite to top the blood a few time > pop trait (most vulnerable phase because of the casting time) > hold def for all your charges while special is recharging > bite x times and so on and so forth until I couldn't bite things anymore to top the blood

But yeah I agree it was closer to doing my rotation and not about actually paying attention to what was happening on the screen :/

[placid plaza]

ok yep that sounds similar to what I was doing!
I was thinking some coop netcode allowed you to keep defence going forever in fights when it's not supposed to
I'll have my run uploaded soon, it was my first attempt so it's definitely not optimised}
https://youtu.be/8W_0nVhuaFY

[fiery garnet]

maybe i dont understand correctly what do u mean by keeping defence forever

But u cant do that

In fight at least

U can be close to infinite defense

But at some point u will go out of blood probably

I couldn't keep it forever even with 4 charges on special with 3 sec cd

And 3 charges of defense with also 3 sec cd

Enemies was dying faster than i could stack blood XD

[fiery garnet]

U are missing special charges

And the cooldown

In my opinion special charges are almost mandatory on her

Even 2 charges feel much better then 1

[viral glacier]

boy oh boy

she feels like she just doesnt do damage xD

the power is the only thing that feels damaging

[stray pivot]

didn't know at the time of the recording it wasn't combining with ace of spade, could change the title to ult builds

[placid plaza]

don't let my discord bickering influence your youtube videos !
but yeah since a lot of attack items don't work with the ult, I think it's better if people have as much knowledge as possible
I really hope that Carmilla's attack will be mentioned in their immediate roadmap, so that the experience of players starting with her won't be awful

stagger is also a concerning issue with her

[stray pivot]

Haha gotcha, that's good reasoning cause without the ult it's just a very middle of the road build. And yeah cruel strike seems like the main redeeming factor, onslaught is cool for movement haven't found huge benefit outside of that. And yeah gust seems to be the only thing that allows her to stagger, kinda sad it doesn't work with life tap though

[fossil laurel]

oh

my

god

I just one shoted the tentacle master boss with a defense focused carmilla

it was on darkness and i managed to do it in just one attack phase

Dude those bats are cracked wth

[viral glacier]

genuinely I think Carmilla is the only character who actually struggles to survive act 1

like she just

doesn't kill things

the only way to deal any real damage is to sacrifice your entire health bar

and she somehow has no innate way to heal reliably

her trait during the day is not good enough lol

[misty cypress]

I'm sure its been discussed but has it been confirmed how to unlock the hidden outfit?

[fossil laurel]

you need to maintain your trait for 1-2 minutes

you'll need the talent that gives you blood when you pass through enemies

i recommend doing an adventure run, getting the talent and then finding a elite ghoul to constantly get your blood back with the talent

[misty cypress]

Awesome! thank you

[fossil laurel]

Are you using her trait efficiently?

She struggles a bit in the early game but I don't consider it hard my all means

But if you're using your power for damage, i suppose that you're more prone to taking damage

[viral glacier]

im not even sure how because you use the trait and it's just gone in 5 seconds lol

and you pretty much have to use her power for damage

like once you get extra charges on bite then suddenly she feels a bit functional

but before then, how do you even generate blood lol

her basic attack is awful and barely generates anything

[fossil laurel]

God this defense build is insanely good

i was thinking that power was her best build so far

But the amount of damage that the bats can do against unstaggered enemies and even bosses is so insane

Honestly, i retract what i said about the blood whips; they're not weak at all

it's a good way for her to stagger enemies and bosses, specially if she's using the defense build

[viral glacier]

ngl

im embarrassed

I thought bite only gave blood if you killed someone with it

this whole time xD

[fossil laurel]

Aaaaaah, now this makes sense lmao

I was finding it odd you were having that much trouble to generate blood

[viral glacier]

yeah I was like "How tf am I supposed to generate blood if I have to spend it in order to get them low enough to bite"

[vocal moth]

Tbf with stats like that any build would seem great

Also I actually tried the stand still and apply statuses talent

It's a bit faster than I thought but still hilariously bad

Only good part about it is the cool animation

The fact that it doesn't apply to bosses is a kick in the nuts

[blazing iron]

yeah this is just visual bug a lvl 5 ult should not have a rarity 😭

iirc it’s torture of the pale that’s the lvl 10 upgradable talent since impalement is just the lvl 5 one

this girl has quite the amusing bugs as of late

[fiery garnet]

I even could buy upgrade to legendary

[blazing iron]

oh waow that’s crasy

[undone tinsel]

I did it

[near sapphire]

Good job!

I've been playing her ONLY on nightmare, and I usually try to play unspoiled. This was a weird one for me, because I felt like there was still stuff I hadn't figured out with her.
Eventually I came here after a lot of time with nightmare carmilla, and fair enough, everyone is finding her pretty undertuned.

For me she's not just the worst character - she's by far the worst character - worse than arial catch aladdin! In fact she's the only character I've struggled to get a nightmare win with!

I think the core of the problem is not her power (as other people feel) - for me the power comes out when I have blood and transform is off cooldown, and it melts entire mobs on its own!

For me her issue is essentially that cooldown reduction is almost worthless on her - it's great if you're using bat master + dispersal for damage (though that's too low for later stages), but the rest of the time you're capped by your blood.

So, you take the talent where you trade health for blood - but now you're dependent on cooldown reduction (/charges) because you have infinite blood and only 2 abilities that use it!

Overall I feel that the bite=heal trait is just generally too weak to compete,
The bat master trait is hilariously fun for just ignoring enemies and stealing everything,
The power trait is strong, but encourages NOT using blood more often than not,
And the 'gain blood for health' trait is confused regarding what it's actually supposed to be improving!

For changes, I'd just give her more damage, honestly. It feels silly using your resouce or health and still doing nowhere near as much damage as 8 other heroes, while also not having tons of 'utility' advantages either.
(So the exact opposite of Melusine, basically. When's she getting nerfed again?)

[undone tinsel]

I had no idea that people think she's undertuned. I think she's very strong, certain builds takes so little effort to dish out dmg. The only starting talent that made me go "eh" is Life Tap. Some other talents are underwhelming for sure, but that's how it is with other heroes, too.

Getting all nightmare badges only took me less than 10 games. I didn't feel like there's a learning curve with Carmilla. I guess having 400hr sink into the game helps.

[midnight plover]

I honestly agree with her being undertuned, but I also think it's mostly because of how her kit feels very unsynergistic at times, her damage tradeoffs for spending blood on one ability makes it hard to use the other. But I just think it makes for a situation where you have to fully spec into only a single ability and run with that, which I find boring, since the problem of not synergising abilities feels weird, and her damage feels very lackluster in some areas as well. Her auto attack scales horribly so the bleed on autos also feels weak, despite being the more fun option for me.

All in all, the changes I would like to see for Carmilla to make her better would be to be able to move at a slower speed while channeling Power and to up her auto attack damage by a small amount to round out her damage when none of her cooldowns are up, because even if your abilities are ready, you need blood to make them more useful anyway.

Btw, the bite quest talent is mostly just to you can heal off of it outside of the non-existant heal that her trait can give. Her trait is ridiculously underpowered imo, except the night part, that one is pretty good.

[fiery garnet]

i cant agree that trait is underpowered honestly

without it her power and defense drains blood to quickly

full blood bar is gone in like 3 sec i think

its locked to 9 blood per sec

in late game with few cdr and charges on special

u can be in trait almost infinitely

enemies will probably die faster than ur trait drains out blood

but in early game

its not that usefull

but its still better than use blood outside trait

[placid plaza]

ok, so I ended up doing a no items run using the defence/bat/bleed build (DBB ?)
despite not liking the playstyle, the safety it brings is very good
damage, I feel it has spikes depending on bats rng, for instance I'm pretty sure they fly outside of tumors/grimoires, so while it can be good, it can also be bad
chapter 3 carried by dash ult

[midnight plover]

Carmillas spenders deal no way near enough dmg for being tied both to a resource and fairly long cooldowns

[fiery garnet]

her power wipes entire poi wdym?

all u need to do is to gather mobs together

[midnight plover]

Ok yeah, her power is good

I just want her to be able to deal dmg outside of using abilities

Her autos are almost as bad as pied piper

[fiery garnet]

ok but

whats the point XD

[midnight plover]

She needs buffs

That's the point

In some regard

[fiery garnet]

maybe a slightly basic attack buff

but she is fine

like u dont rely on basics on other characters either

[midnight plover]

Buffing her basic attack and making having a few tweaks like letting her move slowly during power and/or having her be intangible during the dash in special

[fiery garnet]

even if she could move during the power but slower

it wouldnt make a big difference

u need much more mobility to dodge attacks

so moving slower is almost dont move at all

i saw lots of complaining about pipers ults

but imo

rat ult is insane

her power is basically pipers rat ult

but slower and smaller

all u need to do is to find a safe spot in a right timing

and u wipe everything

just like piper ult

but its almost useless on bosses

especialy baba yaga

standing still even a little means u lose half of ur hp

other bosses at least can be stunned

[midnight plover]

Everything you mentioned makes it all sound like basic attacks shouldn't be in the game, which makes no sense since most characters have ways to get talents to change or buff how their basics work

[fiery garnet]

she also has basic attack talents...

and yeah

i think like every single character would be playable without basics XD

with few exceptions

basics is ur main source of dmg in chapter 1

and her basics do this job

only wukong rely on basic more than other

and maybe scarlet

and melusine (but her playstile is so much different from other characters is weird to compare)

piper for example

if u doing rat build

u dont need basics

power build

u dont need basics

special build

chorus using basics but u dont need to use basics urself

this does not apply only to the chapter 1

at chapter 2 ur build is usually complete or almost complete

lets take geppetto

his basics is awful

its just to heal dummies

thats all

beowulf

has lots of basics synergies

but he also has power build

[vocal moth]

And you're still going to use basics, you aren't gonna stand there looking pretty

[fiery garnet]

but u dont rely on them to much

its usually not ur main source of dmg

and i dont understand why its a problem

its basics after all

[vocal moth]

I don't get your point. You don't rely on basics when doing a power build. Ok and?

You don't rely on power doing a special build

We can go like this in circles

[vocal moth]

Because every other hero can do something with basic attacks

Maybe not instakill shit, but something

[fiery garnet]

piper day basics just exist

we dont include talents here

[last lava]

what talents are the defense build using?

[fiery garnet]

just these 2

and bat master starting

[fiery garnet]

scarlet basics are also just combo generation

without talents its just bad

u use basics just to generate combo

carmilla could generate more blood from basics

but in the same time her power is much stronger than

like

werewolf power

she should just deal more dmg to crystals and thats all

cuz necessarily using power to break them is bad

[undone tinsel]

I think her basic atk is alright.

I'll even say it's one of the better ones.

[fossil laurel]

I think it could use some tuning

Like a small damage buff and more blood generation

So her early game is less punishing

Because she really depends on special cooldown

Oh and, reworking the seduction talent

It's ass

[undone tinsel]

H..her early game is punishing? How so?

[fossil laurel]

Well, if you need to stop your power too early or you're without your cooldown you're gonna struggle

And while the basic attacks do some work, it takes quite a while to really get some blood going

Plus she's just a risky vs reward character in general, you need to get quite close to the enemies and taking hits when holding power can be super punishing

Which isn't bad per se

But buffing her basic attacks would ease some fights imo

Plus the whole breaking crystals thing

[violet bison]

I would actually do some QoL changes on her as well. Being able to move slightly when Power, just like Piper do. Smoothing her autos so they all do close to the same damages instead of a full combo of 0 for a last attack of 50. Having a little lifesteal on attacks would be great to pump them up as well, but that's maybe just my touch.

[quaint gorge]

Ok. I seriously dont understand the "moving during power" idea. She literally has the ability to move the power as well as a talent that makes her better at it. We would have to be able to move her and the power at the some time unless u want a complete rework of how it works.

That just sounds awkward.

[fossil laurel]

Well, that would work easily on pc since we move the power with left click

And the character is moved by WASD

For controllers, i think most of them have dual shocks right?

[quaint gorge]

They would need to put movement for the power on the other stick. Which sounds really annoying but doable i guess.

It would also let u just throw the power out and then start moving away from the fight. Which is basically godmode. Since there is no range on how far the power can be away from you

[fossil laurel]

I'd imagine that she would keep a set distance between power, so she would not be able to move away from it.

Which is a buff and a nerf at the same time

But outside the walking-while-using-power thing, she could get a talent that gives her dmg reduction or something while holding power

[quaint gorge]

This is not how i would be adjusting her. Im not sure what she needs. I dont think im good enough to give a suggestion off the top of my head. But a buff that nerfs one of her strongest features while making the controls more awkward sounds miserable.

[fossil laurel]

Not saying that she needs that, but just saying how it could be realized.

I've been not focusing much on power lately on her, so I'm not having much problems with the risk factor

But a defensive talent for power could be interesting

[placid plaza]

quick talent evaluation
Bat master: defence build enabler
Life essence: haven't tried it, looks ok
blood rage: 10 damage, and stronger power explosion - my default pick if not going for the BBD build
Life tap: this helps a fair amount dealing with blood management but the health drain penalty is real
if you don't mind trading HP for blood, it's probably unnecessary

razor claws: bleed talent enabler, useless on its own
puncture: I find myself using dash to put distance between enemies and myself before using power, not sure if the amount of blood generated is worth it
dispersion: defence build, good damage but 0 stagger
victimization: marked is always good
sadism: OP
boiling blood: not too fond of this one because of the 1 sec charge time, it encourages you to play her badly
maybe good if stacking %healing, not the kind of items I'm going for
go for the throat: crit on special is good
furious tempest: only talent that benefits the channeling part of power, so it's amazing
gust: EXCELLENT early game, BIG stagger, BIG damage but big cooldown to go with I like it
aggressive flock: defence build, it's good but it can agro offscreen
blood reserve: mid at best, not competitive
onslaught: if you can use the mobility to your advantage, it's probably good, I can't so I don't take it
flesh rip: power build
seductive provocation: devs trolling
cruel strike: it's ok on its own, but most importantly it enables mass punishment
you can wait until lvl 9 to get it, so worth keeping your rerolls for that
angel and demon: good healing source or 25% dmg multiplier if solo
wild heart: helps a lot with the AoE
injection: stagger and AoE, it's good

ult: use the second one and if you see cruel strikes take it
break crystal camps with it otherwise

[viral glacier]

Tbh the only build that I've felt has an actually smooth power curve is the defense Bat Master build. Everything else is incredibly reliant on getting certain talents or items.

Her damage is good but not good enough for how much she has to burn blood/hp

It's also pretty lame that her health costs are % Max hp, which makes building vitality counterintuitive.

Also it feels like an oversight that she doesn't have anything that lets her bite reset on kill. If you ask me it should be part of her base kit and would go a long way to helping a lot of her problems

[uneven rivet]

That's the strong side of the bat build, doesn't need a lot to get going and that's why Carmilla is kinda broken right now if played this way
That's fine because she has close to zero synergies between her multiple build (special planting a power seed won't scale well because all power's talent have conditions, special upgrading her next attack is a whoopy 1k2% on a 8dmg auto at legendary wow!..)
The reliant to multiple item/talent part is true for any hero tbh, all of them need the perfect trinity of talent with a plus synergistic side piece (melusine's power on dive, snowqueen's power/special triggering autos..)

[near sapphire]

Dash ult?

[placid plaza]

https://youtu.be/pV7x3ac-oMU?si=pZCPeQipPj8cQH3x&t=2887
lvl 10 build

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxEA88f4E-HTcJbuGSw3Qjg9UCbTkw0yhb?si=z3VvkSXf5kVsjZya
probably a better clip showcasing how OP it is

[mild bobcat]

This

[placid plaza]

https://discord.com/channels/614096898290089994/1290808623748091936 hahaha

[near sapphire]

I strongly disliked the idea of 'move while power-ing'. Partly because power is already strong enough, and partly because being able to avoid big, slow attacks withough losing the blob and putting itASE on cooldown would not be a small buff, I think it'd be massive!

I would like to see her given an attack buff since it feels a bit more thematic to vampires.
If buffs were focused on her power, she'd just feel like another spellcaster, like snowqueen.

I rate her power as one of the best buttons in the game, provided we have the setup, which usually includes:

• Plenty of blood
• Chrioptean form ready/active
• Positioning so that carmillas blob is between her and her foes.
• Enough health to wishstand the inevitable stray birds/ghouls that get around the blob.

I've found myself gathering blood, then transforming, then going in with defense to coax all the enemies into swinging at my (intangible) defense. Then I'll fly away to a good distance and fire the power at the ball of enemies until they're dead.
Like CerberFox said, it'll delete an entire POI, but really if we're talking about bloody 'power', we're not talking about just her trait (nor just her power etc) because it's all synergising to become effective.

The issue I have that makes me bad at using it how that it doesn't seem to get much out of epic items:

• extra charges feels lacklustre, it doesn't speed up the blood gathering or putting enemies on attack wind-down etc, and isn't necessary because 1 power is enough to kill almost anything short of a boss!
• Cooldown reduction: does very little, for the same rasons.

I'm sure I'd be fine if I could resist the urge to pick an epic item over a useful card!

[fossil laurel]

I think power is really fine outside the fact that it lacks a defensive talent

Also, wasting your power early is a massive punishment for her

So if they tweak it, i hope they add a mechanic that if you pop power before, let's say 1 second, you get some of the cool down back.

I find multiple charges for power useful too, it gives her the opportunity to reposition herself and then use her power again if she had to end it early.

[near sapphire]

Some effects, notably her 'power' starting talent, encourage the opposite, and might well be broken if they didn't apply the full cooldown.

What are people's opinions on a great buff to her attacks (I've no specific preferences or ideas here, maybe having her attacks move her forward much more, deal a little more damage, and finish the combo with a bite that deals huge damage (and stun (high stagger), while giving her blood.

This kind of change would encourage her to use more of her kit, are there any obvious problems with that kind of approach? Ie. engouraging players to change from spells to attacks regularly by having her only frenzy when out of blood, but finish frenzy when it gains blood?

[turbid zinc]

Personally, I’ve yet and want to play around with her 2nd ultimate and a focus on Attacks/bleed? from a glance it seems so underwhelming compared to 1st ulti and even more so for duo/trios+.

If there was maybe a tweak or two on some of the traits where having to use Attack as the main gameplay but encouraging uses of Power as a safe-dump/insta cast execute, (just quickly simulating it in my head) would encourage that zippy, agile magic-melee style.

TBF, she is already but in situations like mid and late Chapter2 in co-op, an early cancelled Power due to constant moving from AoEs already hurts contributing damage and poses extended fights = more potential damage taken to self and party. So some buff or tweak that would aid quick engagements but not be penalized for doing so because survivability would be nice

[near sapphire]

I had a lot of fun with the 'after a dash or defence, the next attack is a finisher' in combination with the whip. The whip finisher is a very long-range, quite wide, powerful hit. It's great for safely striking incoming enemies or their armies!
The finisher doesn't 'count as 2 hits' or anything like that.
Still, I think ace of spades x many is mandatory, and, typical to my other experiences with carmilla, you just start thinking 'ooh, this is actually pretty damn good!' before you take a step back and compare it to other heroes... Then you're like 'Baowulf? Wukong?... Oh yeah.)

Regarding my suggestion about attack getting a boost when blood is empty - the aim was to boost attack of course, but the fact that it was a 'I need blood now!' frenzy type effect to get the buff was to add nuance to power!

• If there was a very strong effect that relied on getting to zero blood like that, then we wouldn't be so binary with power. (At the moment I feel that power just drains too much blood to be worth charging without shapeshift - We just transform then unleash power until enemies are dead or we are forced to move)

[viral glacier]

I think if they just gave her a better way to reliably generate blood, it would solve a lot of her problems.

so many boss fights you end up in a situation where you just don't have blood, so you can't do anything. If you happen to take damage then congrats you're on low hp and zero blood so you're just dodging forever and you don't really get to play anymore

[mild moth]

I dont feel like there is an issue with her blood generation. Her only "issue" for me is breaking dream shard. And it's a really small issue.

[uneven rivet]

Most character can destroy dream shard nodes by looking at them using low 5CD special/power, if she struggles more than Scarlet at the same job it means she has lower overall attack dps even with the last strike doing a lot, even tho they serve the same purpose in my opinion (Filler dps during downtime, and generating their spender's ressource) which is not a really small issue :/

[viral glacier]

I feel like she's... pretty clearly in a less functional state than any other character

like everyone else has a smooth gameplay pattern, hers just doesn't really work unless she can find very specific conditions and items

[frozen flint]

more i play her the more i agree with this

im to often having to stop fighting to wait for E cool down for blood cause just using attack in a group often is a bad idea

[viral glacier]

Yeah exactly. She's the only character that is frequently required to just stop fighting and wait for a cooldown

like it might happen occasionally for some others but it happens to her constantly

In a game where time is everything, keeping your rotation going is mandatory. Carmilla doesn't have a fluid rotation early, she really only feels like she gets there with the Bat build, and even then it's after she gets an amount of healing from items and specific talents.

[undone tinsel]

Special is more than enough to generate blood. It even comes with i-frames on top of a very short cd. This whole 'Carmilla is weak and in need of a buff" really surprised me.

[viral glacier]

And what do you do while you're waiting for special cooldown? One bite isn't enough to generate enough blood to heal you meaningfully with trait, or to channel your Power. Her attacks are so weak they're usually just getting you hit

[mild moth]

Her attack is a decent filler imo. It's fast, mobile and can be cancelled. If you're getting hit, maybe you're using it at the wrong time ?

[violet bison]

But it deals very little damage and is a poor blood generator. So yeah it's nothing more than a filler, unlike other Heroes that uses attacks in a more effectiv way imo

[undone tinsel]

Keep playing and you'll eventually find out that she is insanely good.

[vocal moth]

Every hero becomes insanely good with the current item balance. Other heroes become even insanely better than her, except maybe Piper with suboptimal builds.

[violet bison]

I'm not saying she's bad, I'm saying she need QoL changes. And autos are awful. Those one I truely think are bad. But rest of the kit is cool for sure!

[astral magnet]

It would be boring to buff her attack in a way that just adds flat dmg and could discourage other builds, so maybe attack damage or blood generation by attack being raised only while blood meter is below a certain percentage full would go a long way to giving people a reason to use it, even if it wouldn't exactly feel powerful.

A trait that gave a free uncharged power or mini bite on the fifth strike of her combo could also provide a reason to use attack later in the game even on a power or special focused run.

I also don't see why the Seductive Provocation trait isn't just tied to a specific ability. I think it very clearly needs to be more reliable and step one is making it so the player can activate it quickly.

For instance, holding special makes it so any enemy targeting you during that time was instead frozen and vulnerable, and either it lengthens the time you can hold special or that effect just lingers after you complete the move, and either way that time scales to rarity. If that's too powerful for solo, maybe make only enemies in the target area of the bite are affected.

Just seeing "standing still" as a trigger is boring and x number of enemies being affected without the ability to target is also terrible.

[fiery garnet]

seductive provocation has a cool concept

but its useless in game like ravenswatch

where standing still means death

and the reward u get isnt worth it

her power at least does insane dmg

and has acceptable cast range

[fossil laurel]

Vulnerable is a pretty good effect

But having to stay still for 2 seconds and the fact that it doesn't synergizes with power is what kills it

Honestly it should just be like sea dance and be it's button with it's own cooldown

[vocal moth]

I just got the talent Wild Hearts that increases orb's move speed and range, at rank 8, but I swear I played with this one before.

This happened to anyone else?

[fossil laurel]

I also find the charmed enemies limit to be weird, other heroes have talents that can potentially make whole groups of enemies vulnerable.

[placid plaza]

it wasn't meant to be available early, it got hotfixed to be pushed later in her rank progression apparently

[vocal moth]

I can't even tell what did it get swtiched for

Every other talent is so similar

Oh it's apparently Cruel strike

wait wait, next attack deals +100% dmg

So 2

Very cool Passtech games

They either need to rebalance her attacks or scrap every attack talent from her

[placid plaza]

it didn't get switched I believe, it was just pushed to the later ranks
cruel strike's damage is based off the final combo, which is 26 base iirc
it's not gamebreaking, but it's not bad either
it's completely broken with the 2nd ultimate upgrade however

[vocal moth]

Haven't gotten to rank 9 yet

What's the upgrade?

[vocal moth]

Oh so you're saying we had a talent extra on Carmilla while ranking up before the hotfix?

[placid plaza]

I believe that was the case yes
#1288785490266292306 message
for mass punishment
it can still deal up to 10k dmg with 0 items

[vocal moth]

Yeah I was about to say that early Hope Diamond sure changes things

But the aoe looks nice

[vital prairie]

guys, could u give me a gist to build her? really having a hard time

[plush ether]

It's also a talent that doesn't effect bosses, so borderline pointless

[fossil laurel]

If you want a powerful and rather safe build, i recommend the defense build

It only really needs 3 talents; being bat master, dispersion and agressive flock

[left tusk]

How about special build ?

[fossil laurel]

I haven't played it yet so I can't recommend it

But i heard it's pretty good too

I assume go for the throat is key there

Sadism is an amazing talent for any build overall too

For builds that don't rely on power, i like using the blood whips since i find that they're an amazing choice to stagger and damage enemies when your skills are on cool down.

For builds with power, i tend to play with the first ultimate more.

[undone tinsel]

Her basic attack really isn't awful tho

[near sapphire]

It's really unfortunate, IMO, that dispersion ruin's some of the stealth aspect of bat master.
It's still worth taking of course, those defensive abilities actually get a significant damage increase from their starting talent (unlike her other moves, which don't really get more powerful. ) Especially aggressive flock!

It bugs me that Bat Master deals the most damage, and also has the most utility, of the 4 starters.
( It was my experience early that I loved playing with Bat Master when I first tried her - I found it crazy how she could literally leave the start location, fly straight to a red chest, and open it (admittedly with some skill) - all without attacking a single enemy! But fair, I thought, since her actual combat prowess was really poor, she needed those early items and ability to use fountains!
Eventually I tried her other starting talents, and realised that bat master was the BEST starting talent for damage!)

[near sapphire]

("seductive provocation has a cool concept" - other half of the quote)

Yeah, despite feeling really sketchy about it, I tried to 'force' it for a few games, because I loved the idea of it. The effect was always nowhere near worth the time spent. For a lot of them, I wanted to hit an enemy that was bleeding for bonus damage (crit chance), and by the time you fire a POWER, the bleed or vulnerable have either worn off already, or are just about to! You have to decide whether to make the orb explode after < 1s, or keep it on. The obvious answer is keep it on, in which case provocation has added about 20dmg!
All this is even worse when fighting multiple opponents, where an earlier choice of 'take damage, or dodge for a second', and if you decide to dodge, vulnerable has worn off by the time you bleed them!

I love the idea of it, but it's useless.

[near sapphire]

On that note, my brother saw some gameplay and suggested that she should be given HP for enemies damaged by her bleed effects.
Maybe if she has this 'drink bleeding:restore health' effect tied to her attacks only while on low blood, it would give a reason to use blood outside of trait transform?

It would also give her something very significant to do when in @viral glacier's described situation of

low hp and zero blood so you're just dodging forever and you don't really get to play anymore.

[viral glacier]

Healing off of bleed would be a nice talent

Or just giving her bite a reset on kill

Also some of her talents actively work against each other. Like other characters have talents that might not synergize, but none that I know of that actively hurt other talents

I'm thinking especially of the Distance = Bite crit chance

Where if you're attacking you actually have to stop and back up in order to get good damage

It's very odd

Especially when she only has 2 possible ways to apply bleed, either using her defense or basic attacking with the talent

And she's got the bleed = crit damage perk on Power, which feels clunky too. I'm supposed to attack, walk away, then position to use Power?

It's all just clunky and not fluid, her talents don't match her gameplay pattern

I'm not of the opinion that she needs direct buffs to damage or whatever, just make her more fluid so the tools she has are accessible

I do really enjoy bat master bc I like being a speedy sneak rat, but it feels like her only properly supported playstyle. Which is very weird

She needs a way to get blood from kills imo. It makes sense for her character design. Maybe she gains blood when a bleeding enemy dies, maybe she gains blood per second based on how many enemies are bleeding, maybe she just has a reset on kill for bite which would increase her blood generation in a skillful way

But she just needs more blood

[fossil laurel]

oh yeah, imo they need to nerf the range of the bats

at least so they don't focus enemies not in combat

Because their range is insane sometimes

and not in a good way

Dispersion is mostly fine in my book tho, i suppose it can make sneaking harder but i think the trade-off is worth it

[viral glacier]

what they REALLY need to do for Bat Master is fix the weird multiplayer aggro thing

like I will be 10000% not in combat, not aggro'd but if any of my team is on my screen and in combat, it knocks me out of bat form which frequently means it immediately starts burning my health

The only way to be "stealthy" in multiplayer is to be completely away from your team.

It's really dumb and needs to be fixed. Bat Master specifically says it gives you stealth out of combat, monsters should not aggro onto me just because I'm within 10 feet of them and they're aggro'd to my team

[violet bison]

?
The animation feeling is great but that's all. The combo do so little damage it's hard to even break dream shard, it's pointless to get Ace Cards (the blue item that pump attacks) and it absolutely suck to get Black Lotus (5% heal on autos which is 0 because 5% of 0 is 0) and it gives you so little, SO LITTLE blood.
Wdym attacks aren't awful?

[fiery garnet]

Basics should generate 2x more blood vs bleed enemies

Thats my suggestion

And just to say
Im surprised she doesn't have bleed orientat talent

Like beowulf has with ignite

[violet bison]

You can't tell me Carmilas autos aren't at least one tier below Beowulf or Scarlett autos

[fiery garnet]

In my opinion almost every basics in the game are useless past chapter 1

I was playing beowulf yesterday

And except dash build

I wasnt using basics after chapter 1

[violet bison]

Beo has a lot of alternativ attacks, Scarlett use's them to get Combo points so they def has a use, Snow Queen has Double Lance talents which make them very powerful, Wukong has insane autos with very good combo... Carmila just pale to all those

Aladdin has enchantment too, so his autos are cool

I'm using autos a lot past Act 1

[leaden adder]

Carmilla has quite the bunch of attack related talents, think imma try an attack/defense build next time, see how good it is

[wet axle]

Sadly none of them are that good, other than the cruel strike+mass punishment combo, that is

[leaden adder]

will make an opinion for myself, with all of them + attack related items

[wet axle]

Absolutely, and if you find interesting interactions, do share please

[leaden adder]

will do

[untold crane]

Does 4 unicorn horn bonus passive of giving +50 dmg when under regenerattion effect work with her boiling blood

[leaden adder]

it should

[viral glacier]

If Cruel Strike is the big hit after you dash one, that one feels surprisingly good.

I had some success with an hp stacking bite build, with the heal on bite kill talent

If you get a bunch of Ogres Blood then you can be decent enough until you can roll into the crit bite talent and the bleed amplifier one

[plush ether]

Gepetto basics are durn handy
Heals, rockets, extra attacks, even Nailing combo

Carmilla’s are so underwhelming I feel I’m better off just running away on cooldown

[eternal saddle]

How do you build this?

I see most people playing only Bat Master and Blood Rage.

[fiery garnet]

U dont

xd

if it was working with gust and angel and demon talents

than would be usefull

but in this state u use just to unlock hidden skin XD

[placid plaza]

this helps a fair amount dealing with blood management but the health drain penalty is real
if you don't mind trading HP for blood, you're probably comfortable enough with the character to generate enough blood in the first place

[eternal saddle]

True XD

[fossil laurel]

Life tap isn't terrible

It can be a big help on the early game

But it not interacting with the talents is pretty underwhelming

[quaint gorge]

I thought it was her best starting talent before reading this channel lol

Like. Not even close. Edit. Got the name confused ignore me

[fiery garnet]

this talent sucks

spending 20% hp to blood isnt worth it

on a character that somehow doesnt have good self sustain

wukong is more vampire than she

[fossil laurel]

Like i understand that it doesn't work with angel and devil

Being able to negate the hp cost with the heals would be pretty busted

But i really feel it should work with gust

[fiery garnet]

it still would only work during the day

in my opinion it wouldnt be actually busted

[fossil laurel]

True, but it's a big amount of healing nonetheless

[arctic hemlock]

Someone can advice me for a bat defence build ?

[placid plaza]

it's simple, there's 3 talents @arctic hemlock
starter
dispersion (bleed on defence expiring)
aggressive flock (bats)

rest is up to preference, if you see gust in chapter 1 (and no defence talents I'd take it)
I'd build around special if possible since it combines with it better, but if you get wild heart for instance it's probably not worth skipping

[viral glacier]

Life Tap would be better if it worked with her talents that give regen for spending your hp. But for some reason those are determined by time and not the amount of hp, which makes no sense.

[fossil laurel]

the more i play her the more satisfied i feel with her

i love it how every build of hers (except attack) is viable

She could use a buff to basic attacks and some qol changes tho

And reworking how seductress functions

But outside that, she's an amazing character that has a ton of potential

but could use some polishing

oh and some bug fixing

i managed to get stuck in walls due special's teleport

it's a bit hard to do and doesn't happen all the time, but i already had it happen in two runs with her so far

Seems like the special dash considers thin walls an acceptable place to put Carmilla into.

[viral glacier]

I feel like Blood Tap can't possibly be a viable build.

[arctic hemlock]

Thank you

[royal sequoia]

feel the same, when i first played with her i thought she sucked, now shes my fav!

[plush ether]

I’ve played her half a dozen games now and still find her underwhelming

[whole path]

Ngl when I unlocked life tap I thought it would a situation where you got life from nearby enemies to fill blood and not yourself, kinda disappointed with it because of the huge lack of healing in her base kit. Like actually why would I use this when I can just wait for special again? It’s boring but way more practical and safe.

Also you get to take a better talent that doesn’t hurt you

[fossil laurel]

It's good in the early game when you need to continue using your trait

But outside that, there isn't much for it

[fossil laurel]

I really don't get why that talent has a monster limit

[blazing iron]

oughhhh 😭

this shitty talent… CARMILLA GET UP

[plush ether]

The easiest way to not do anything with Carmilla for two seconds is to just play Gepetto instead

[fossil laurel]

what if you wanted to seduce someone

but Baba Yaga said " you're gonna have to wait two whole seconds to do it; while waiting, you are prone to being hurt by your enemies and overall being extremely vulnerable."

[old cargo]

she is weak

[fiery garnet]

weak

[frozen flint]

OH MY

How did the whip do so much

[fiery garnet]

its not mine build

@placid plaza invented it

[frozen flint]

Still so sick

Character is good I think I only have an issue with just normal attacks feel a little limp sometimes but everything else is pretty nice

[fiery garnet]

thats pretty much how everyone describes her

[placid plaza]

there's no "build ownership" in this game
not complicated enough, with 2/3 runs on the same character you'll go through most possible combo variations

[fiery garnet]

Game isnt compicated enough thats true

but i really dont think i would ever thought of that build tbh

[frozen flint]

It's not that complicated but there's there's room to mess around with things

I think it's an okay level for the time being

[sick tangle]

Single hit xd

[golden dawn]

Gonna add my voice in with the others to say that I don't like the current form of Seductive Provocation. I tried to make it work but it just feels like it takes way too long. Would be awesome if it was tied to something like Trait. Pop trait, seduce the nearest few things, go to town. Would even fit with her attack flow.

Great concept, but standing still for so long in a game all about constantly moving to race to clock just feels bad.

[fossil laurel]

It should totally work like Mel's sea dance

Also, why the monster limit?

Other heroes can potentially apply vulnerable to a whole horde of enemies

It's really not worth it

I can get that making the enemies suffer more dmg and do less dmg is pretty busted

But you can just make it so that it has a long cool down

Or remove the other effect and make it only cause vulnerable

[fiery garnet]

if it was tied to trait

it would already had long cooldown

[golden dawn]

Exactly! It would fit on trait so well!

[short onyx]

Does bat master actually increase dispersion and flock dmg?

Cuz those are technically not defense dmg no?

[uneven rivet]

It does work this way for now, don't know if it's intended or will be patched tho
At level 2 without the def starter, all common quality, bleedxplosion is 66dmg and bats are 10 dmg
At level 2 with the def starter, all common quality, bleedxplosion is 92dmg and bats are 15 dmg (10 base, 40 dmg from starter, a few dmg from level 2 scaling, rounded up)

[short onyx]

Thank you!

Well then defense talent might unironically provide the most dps gain

Cuz power talent only buff the final explosion and 10 dmg lol

[uneven rivet]

Lifetap is terrible and scales very badly as it's %hp
Power as you said only buffs the 40 base dmg explosion, and won't scale the special's seed talent either
Special one can be fine, but as Scarlet's quest it requires discipline and probably sacrifices timer for gain which feels terrible in the end
So yeah, defense one is kinda the best, because the two talents can be 50-75% of your overall safe dps on a semi defense dedicated build :x

[short onyx]

I guess just build for raw dmg number and get w/e talent you can grab? Preferably special oriented i suppose

[uneven rivet]

The attack ones are a decent splash (bleed attack, dash attack) alongside sadism, it unlocks the second ult's shenanigan at level 10

I think only the dash attack and sadism really matter, the 2nd ult replaces your attack

[short onyx]

But that only comes online at the very end

Dash attack and 4th whip right?

[wind nest]

finally got everything in this run...

[plush ether]

I'm still not getting any performance out of her

[vocal moth]

Damn those numbers are mega low for both heroes

Do you not get dmg items?

[plush ether]

Well, we died in act 3 on map boss (horse guy)

I had approximately 60% bonus damage off quad egg and some ogre blood

Trying a defense (bat) focused build on Carmilla, but it was just super low impact

[crimson hornet]

guys what the build for hand combat

[rose hill]

what's the current thought on how strong Carmilla is

i tested her a little bit in solo and was really dissappointed

she just felt...clunky to me idk. couldn't find her rhythm

[crimson hornet]

she is just high risk low reward to me

like the dmg output is there

but you really need some serious luck to get all the talent without rolling much to get the dmg output

https://tenor.com/view/mid-its-mid-ugly-nah-gif-19839131

[vocal moth]

Dependant on items more than other heroes, auto attacks are garbage, power build chunks hard. Special is main single target damage.

I find her on the lower end of the power scale. Early game she's weaker than Wukong but better than Piper.

Her talents are also mostly ass, similar to Snow Queen, gotta sift through dirt to find one gold nugget

[crimson hornet]

snow queen talent actually better than carmilla

it just she need more than 3 talent to get strong

[undone tinsel]

Witnessing people saying Carmilla is bad on discord : day 15

[vocal moth]

She's objectively weaker than most other heroes, she's not bad bad as in you can't play her, but to say she's strong is a lie

Her early game is stronger than 2, maybe 3 heroes, and in late game everyone can be broken with the right items

[undone tinsel]

Objectively.. ok

[fair pebble]

i did broken games with carmilla and really fast when i wasn't yet pro on the character

in nightmare

[rose hill]

Sounds like a good assessment

[rose hill]

Is there a legit tier list yet? I’m very curious

[vocal moth]

Didn't see one in a while idk

[vocal moth]

Leprechaun S tier

Everything else irrelevant

[rose hill]

Idk even know what that is hahaha

I realized very recently that my itemization has been terrible

I’ve been prioritizing the items that add charges to spells

[vocal moth]

The +1 reroll item, then every reroll giving you money

Stack these up and every hero can feel insanely goos

Good*

[rose hill]

Ahhh. Ya I’ve never taken that even once lol

Dumb

Good to know

[plush ether]

It's a bit high-rolly

you get several, it can go really well
You only see one early, doesn't really change much

[vocal moth]

I mean you can say that about most low rarity items

[stray pivot]

If you've been struggling with Carmilla I made a guide on her. It talks about her difference in playstyle, blood management, different build ideas, and talks about talents individually. Hopefully it's helpful https://youtu.be/aqcfJtCfwYY

[livid pecan]

dang this hero is kinda trash at the base level. 😂

[modest geyser]

Hey guys, just lost the perfect run as carmilla (bite build) to the headless horseman. Any advice to killing him and protecting the tree with bite or power build? I was on darkness difficulty.

[fiery star]

playing gepetto

[plush ether]

General consensus is still that this is bad, right?

[plush ether]

Her autoattack just gets worse the more I watch it

takes six rotations of her basic attack combo to take out one of those scarecrows

[fossil laurel]

Actually pretty good for bite builds

The heals gets quite insane with time

Gives her a lot of survivability and makes being punished less scary

[near sapphire]

Don't fight him. You're carmilla, the prey in the night!
Wring out that win from every possible factor that you can make to your favour!

[near sapphire]

I find this pretty good.
I would consider bat mastery the best, but for some reason I can never get the special talents I want with bat mastery. I land them almost every run with life essence!

[plush ether]

The funny thing is the run that's from, I took the bat starter talent but wound up a primarily Bite focused build because that's what I got items/talents for

Also with that much damage bite crits hit for like 3500

[near sapphire]

I honestly tried that for an incredible number of runs. Back luck, I'm sure, but I ended up fearing bat master due to the lack of 'go for the throat' and 'injection'! 😄

[plush ether]

Yeah, I usually go for a bite build then wind up stuck with garbage like the Seduction talent or bonus crit on bleed but no bleed except default defense

[livid pecan]

I sort of think it's good because she's so vulnerable now. Slow with her spells, loses HP easily. So I think it's pretty valuable to have a built-in heal that allows you to then play more riskily with her, and risk losing your HP in order to dish out damage, knowing that you can regen it back.

[terse helm]

Why is Carmilla's best talent locked at level 8 😅

Injection so good

[rose hill]

thank you! came looking for this

[rose hill]

hi @near sapphire i seem to be interacting with every single one of your comments today lol. What do you like about bat mastery?

carmillas talents seem so underwhelming to me

and more than most heroes they don't really seem to change the way you play her radically

[night dragon]

Got my first clear on Nightmare with Carmilla. Went with a bite focused build. Act 1 was the hardest and the early parts of 2 until I got the shop set and snowballed hard from there.

[brazen oasis]

Nice, good work

I found something that makes me like Carmilla's attack dramatically more than I used to (which maybe is already commonly known, but I'll mention it in case it is not). The 5th hit of attack makes her do a big lunge, so you can purposefully miss the first 4 attacks at a 90 degree angle away from enemies, and then lunge in with the 5th one. I find it helps incredibly with those small melee enemies like melee ghouls and melee spiders that are otherwise a massive nuisance to deal with if your power is on cooldown. If you're only in their range during your 5th attack you have enough time to walk away before they counterattack, and your 5th attack has a ton of spread, so it can hit a lot of those melee enemies.

Also makes it easier to safely build up a little more blood when committing to a full attack combo is not feasible.

[brazen oasis]

By the way, does anyone know whether spending health to keep powering consumes %hp?

[steep dust]

i read somewhere that it is in fact %hp, not 100% sure if it is true or not though

but it does feel like you drain your hp at the same rate at any stage of the game so it would make sense

[brazen oasis]

Got it, thanks! It does feel that way, though I am the sort to doubt my perception of things

[livid pecan]

What are people's thoughts on her Trait? I find it sort of not that uesful to even use. I'd rather just keep the blood for bursting damage

[plush ether]

I rarely touch it

The daytime heal is too small to be useful and the night bonus is hard to budget for given how strong her defense and power are

[leaden adder]

that's sad, the trait is THE most important part of her kit

when you're using trait your abilities don't cost blood

so basically you can channel power for twice as long as usual

you can also get full blood, then trait, 1st ult (damage is increased with blood consumed, and with the trait, the damage is counted, but the blood isn't consumed) and then channel power

[vocal moth]

You mean THE most limiting part of her kit, it's 15 second cd, take it or leave it. So the amount of cd reduction and charges for other abilities might as well not exists unless you happen to stumble upon Balor's Eye

There isn't a single item or talent that reduces that cooldown

If this were a MOBA, such a character would be fine, but this is a PvE race againt the clock where such design is clunky

[crimson hornet]

so how the blood lash ultimate focus build ?

[brazen oasis]

Trait is really important for the power, it's pretty critical. Even if you later mostly rely on her special or defense, trait+power is still critical to quickly clearing out enemy camps in the early game

Trait lets you hold power way way longer

The thing that makes it all work out is starting your power from far away and letting enemies walk through it. If you launch power straight into a group of enemies you'll have to drop power very early and trait will drain all your blood, but if you start it further away you can power for the full trait duration.

[spiral fiber]

Carmila Defense build is the most fun way to play her (imo)

it all comes down to getting 2 charges on your special and the talent that releases bats while during defense

its reeeaaaaly fun , beat nightmare with it and didnt die the entire time

[hazy obsidian]

I'm failing to understand why people seem to rave about trait, it's soooo useless

[brazen oasis]

Trait lets you hold down power for dramatically longer compared to not using trait. If not using trait, then power has such a long cooldown to the point that even if you can quickly farm blood back up, you'd have to wait for the remaining power cooldown anyways.

With trait, if you can position yourself and your power such that you do not have to prematurely end the power, then the overall damage output is much higher compared to not using trait.

[crimson hornet]

It kinda is on day

Lose 30% crit and only heal aoe very small amount

Not even worth

[brazen oasis]

I would say on day the healing is a bonus. Even ignoring the heal it's still often worth using trait due to it letting you hold power for so much longer. Using trait while already at full health during the day is pretty common.

[prisma torrent]

How do you sustain yourself as Carmilla? It feels like if you misplay even a bit and take damage, the run will become much harder esp in act1

I usually go with the bite starting talent at lvl1, but are ther any other ways of sustaining? Angel and demon is more for coop play and not solo play, boiling blood is a bad option apparently

I'm trying to clear nightmare solo with Carmilla and the best I reach is the act2 boss

[crimson hornet]

here , someone suggest me this

[prisma torrent]

ngl thats HILARIOUS

but I have as much trouble with gepetto

[uneven rivet]

Healing options are level ups (3 to 4 in act 1) and fountains, passive during the day (16-30 hps a pop depending on your stored blood) and that's it tbh xd
Any early healing/defensive talents or items picks are a loss in tempo, less powercreep less clean potential less level ups and rewards

The bite talent is terrible aswell imo, you either loose on tempo because you try to actively complete it by killing ghouls with it, or you could miss on completing it if you use your special on CD for blood purposes and end up with a dead talent and a terrible 15 vitality, plus you kinda lock yourself on a special build if you want to make use of it
Bite talent also doesn't help against most boss fights, ||first is a pain to trigger even with 6 tentacles a cycle (and requires to have it completed in the first place, as I said huge loss of tempo during the whole a1), second is OKish, third is useless, fourth only during both first phases||

The bat master is a huge tempo gain on the other hand, faster pathing and less fights on the way to interest points, and open up the defense build that is the safest and probably strongest of all her builds
About her other starter, the power one is conditional/negligible/unsynergistic as it empowers ONLY the explosion (45 base dmg) / ONLY after a set amount of channel AND doesn't buff the special talent planting a power seed, and the lifetap is sacrificing %hp for fixed amount of blood so lategame life scaling makes it stupid to use

Don't missplay twice in a row, or at least until you level up or hit a fountain :p
If you play afraid because of your low HPs you'll have issue completing the run anyway

Print enemies' pattern in your mind, use your invincible frames correctly:
Bite at close range is a perfect Iframe, but from longer distance you can get hit on the travel time so don't jump on a scythe or butcher's cleave
Defense is a perfect instant intangible, if you're drafting defensive talents (bat master starter, bloodxplosion at the end of defense and the bat summoning talent during defense) and pop the trait you could end up having a 50%+ uptime on intangible defense while dishing out damage

If you look at sustain options for other unsafe melee characters with base sustain in their kit, they always loose on tempo in the process or is conditional
Beawulf needs to use wyrm and stand in defense, so you loose on wurm's damage output on special/power and afk a bit
Wukong sacrifices his dps by standing in yin and still need to put himself in unsafe situation because he has to damage to leech life back
Scarlet's sustain only exists on night time, plus the shapeshifting's animation, it's way more powerful than Carmila's daytime trait tho
Any hero drafting early defensive/sustain also sacrifices damage output and therefor tempo because you miss on a damage talent, same for items

[prisma torrent]

Ooof so I just need to get used to fighting with no sustain

[crimson hornet]

like i said

just log off and play something else

💀

[prisma torrent]

If I go out it will be geppetover

[charred ginkgo]

I've started off with a whole lot of Scarlet and tried to get into Carmilla, I'm really feeling a distinct lack of damage. I can only do so many rounds of dodging and weaving around attacks before I eventually get caught in a trap-move or sth.

I can see Gepetto being really powerful but honestly, wailing on enemies in melee is just more where the fun is at for me

[near sapphire]

Sorry for the late reply! I think it's her best mastery on paper. In practice, I just couldn't get the talents I thought I needed with it (this was special-focused talents for the most part, after an obligatory dispersal, of course!). I started to wonder whether starting talent also affects talent pool, but then figured I was overthinking it, and just picked the special-focused starting talent to get a win, wishing this made more sense!

[proud badger]

I have heard that mass punishment doesn't scale with attack dmg so i'm guessing that heartbreak doesnt scale with it either.

[prisma torrent]

I managed to get to bab yaga on nightmare but lost over there

this is the furthest iv ever been, will get it eventually

[crimson hornet]

join the special bite build sir

[whole heron]

I was dissapointed tonight to find out that all of Carmilla's self-dmg doesn't count as taking dmg

[elfin swallow]

she still isnt buffed ?? Oo

[near sapphire]

I've been playing a lot of random lately, it's a real eye-opener. I think The more I play a character (back to back especially), the more I feel that they are weak (and the worse I play with them).
From the perspective of random selection, I find carmilla one of the best. Maybe third place? (Melusine, snowqueen, Carmilla).

I'm not sure she needs a buff (she might, I only have my own experience!), so much as needs good skill choices (and cruel strikes+whip is kinda non-negotiable for me nowadays!)

[winged sierra]

what build can utilize heartbreak and blood lash\mass punishment?

[crimson hornet]

blood lash mass punishement kinda it own thing

you just get cooldown or charge ultimate item to spam it as much as possible

[buoyant owl]

Hey folks, fairly new to ravenswatch here, but pretty experienced in gaming. Been playing as much as I can without advice but now I'm getting ready for nightmare mode it's time to pick up my game on the characters I don't know very well (I play using random pick hero).

Carmilla is definitely one im unsure of haha! What are the pros cons of going bat vs power builds? I assume a con of bat would be using the defence to attack instead of having a spare intangible.

Also when using power build is it better to save blood, use your trait and wreck with a blood ball you can hold for ages (seemingly staggering everything in sight haha), or use the trait/blood ball more regularly with small bursts of damage?

She doesn't seem to get much self healing, other than the kill with a bite trait/ day time trait? Is it a good idea at all to self harm for more damage?

It doesn't hurt you either to just quick cast the skills without holding them down right?

[near sapphire]

Power doesn't improve the damage from holding the blood ball.
That, combined with the fact that her special skill doesn't increase special's damage at all, and the trait build being pretty useless for me, are the reasons I go bat master every game.
Well, that, and how much I enjoy stealing prizes!
She's the only character where I have to go farm XP specifically, because otherwise I'll get a full-clear on act 1 while still only level 4! 😄

And no, fast casting skills uses no blood or health.

Her self healing can also be bolstered with angel and demon. It sounds negligible, but it's surprisingly strong. I had a 'threadbare' run where I was fighting the hands boss and healing SO much with that talent! Whenever it would go nighttime I'd be terrified! It's the game where I found out that some bosses have more than 1 day/night cycle!

Overall though, she's a tricky one. I might have to take back my comment about her being 3rd-best. She's probably in the bottom half of the lineup, rubbing shoulders with scarlett and piper and looking down on Wukong!

[buoyant owl]

oh wow power doesnt increase the blood ball, no wonder i feel strong at the start and weak later haha! angel and demon i dont have yet... perhaps a later rank unlock :P. Thanks for advice. Her long range crit bite thing seems to do pretty mega damage 😄

nevermind, rank 7 just got it haha

[buoyant owl]

ok darkness done on camilla, omgosh she pairs well with aladdin doing a bite/crit build :O. about 20 runs or so in with camilla now and yet to even see the bats fly everywhere during your defence trait get offered haha? maybe i should start using the munch and get health trait as first pick instead ^_^ haha

[crude sedge]

Hello, what are the current builds for Carmilla that works well?

[crude sedge]

@near sapphire How should I build her?

[short onyx]

Looking down on wukong is a strong statement. Wukong and aladin have probably the highest ceiling

[rose hill]

anyone have a talent tier list for carmilla

[royal sequoia]

bat master, injection, wild heart is good early game, Disperson, angry flock (not so great in multiplayer) victimization good for extra damage and in multiplayer, saidsm and go for throat good for crit builds

[rose hill]

Thank you ❤️

[near sapphire]

Using __underlined __to signify it's highly dependant, I'd posture something like:

lvl1 start skills: Bat Master > Life Essence > Blood Rage > Life Tap

rank normal lvl 1
SS*** Mass Punishment+Cruel Strikes
S Blood lash
A Dispersion, Sadism
B Aggressive Flock, Gust, Victimization, Boiling Blood, Furious Tempest, Flesh Rip,
C Angel and Demon, Razor Claws (worse for defense builds), Onslaught,
D Puncture, Go For The Throat, Blood Reserve, Wild Heart
F Seductive Provocation

(I couldn't place her ultimate 1 because it's impossible to evaluate against ultimate 2 without putting it in F tier, but that didn't feel fair.)

[prisma torrent]

Just curious, why do you put onslaught as C tier?

I would personally put it at D or F tier because it doesnt seem super good except to maybe save charges on the blood lash ultimate

and isnt go for the throat good on a special build?

[near sapphire]

Onslaught can find some use for clearing or getting clear. Situations like biting large blood gargoyles in act 3 are super-safe thanks to onslaught.

[prisma torrent]

ohh ok, ill give it a try

[near sapphire]

I'm sure it is for some!
I personally found my special playthroughs got better when I stopped picking it.

[prisma torrent]

oh, i like that talent alot, i would probably place it in B tier

[near sapphire]

Basically, the time you spend getting into position to bite costs more than the +40% crit chance it gives.

(bear in mind crits aren't even double damage until a lot of work is put in)

It's sure as hell a lot of fun though!

[prisma torrent]

ah when i play that talent i dont try to maximize the distance although i do try to upgrade it ASAP

[near sapphire]

I always read upgrading it as:

Special gets from 0% and 10% extra crit chance, dependant on range.

And with that increrase not even being double damage? I always felt I could skip that one! 😉

[rose hill]

sorry if i keep repeating myself in here

but we are really struggling to beat Twilight as a Piper/Carm duo

i think i really need help itemizing Carm

Also am i correct in thinking that it's important to start pivoting away from her Power in Act 2

bc using her power against act 2 boss just doesn't feel that feasible

[prisma torrent]

Do you have injection on carmilla

And when act 2 boss is stunned you can rip your power into it....

Imo you can still build into power even late game, but you need to use bat form to get some distance before channeling it, and it's fine if the channel doesn't hit an enemy for the first second or so

[broken hare]

https://youtu.be/IJzgSKDDoHU?si=KJAoHJsmz1PCGP2I

[rose hill]

I ended up finding this and it’s EXACTLY what I needed. Thank you

[wary pivot]

What is the optimal carmilla talent setuup and build?

[ionic marsh]

my first win on nightmare and it was with carmilla. Special build with injection feels pretty strong.

[quaint gorge]

250% dmg helps

[mental flicker]

hey guys, i'm playing on the hardest dificulty with my friend
i'm playing as Wu Kong, and he is Carmila
what's the best Skils and items build for Carmila?
any tips?

[near sapphire]

Cruel strike + whip (ulti) is her strongest. At level 10, mass punishment boosts this massively under-average character into orbit!

To get there, bat master is so far ahead of the other 3 starting skills it's not even funny!
She has some terrible skills like onslaught (gets you killed) and seduction, but other than that I'd just advise carmilla players NOT pass up dispersion.
The stuff that increases crit damage / power crit chance vs bleeding targets is really good too.

Item-wise, I like a balor's eye or nightmare thorn.

[crimson hornet]

They still not fix seduction

[placid plaza]

yep that was a surprise

[prisma torrent]

What does Carmilla whip ultimate scale with?

just % damage or does ace of spades help it

[placid plaza]

ace of spade did not apply last I checked
% dmg & crit

[near sapphire]

This is right, it's not an attack, it's an ultimate. Doesn't leech life with black lootus, either.
It can crit though, and carmilla is very compatible with crits.

[floral raven]

any tips for this character i just seem to die with her and she takes forever to kill things.

[prisma torrent]

Get blood using some bites and auto attacks, and once the meter is full, defense through enemies, dash once out of harms way and hit them with power. That is the most basic combo for Carmilla

You focus more on abilities than attacks with this hero

[floral raven]

yeh i just completed a run with her by focusing on bleed and defence

i just really struggle most times getting past act 2

[near sapphire]

Aww, I just did a walkthrough with carmilla for a viewer, wish I'd seen this first, I'd have shared!

[tidal rampart]

Is it intended behavior that the trait activation talents don't trigger when reactivating trait with the starting talent ability that let's you reactivate for extra blood at the cost of 20% health? I was quite confused why my build wasn't working 😅

[vestal hull]

Ok can we plz change Carmilla's Cooldown on trait this is 15 sec the biggest in the game and buff her Autoattacks also she is a vampire why her kit doesn't have a lifesteal from the start like Scarlet ?

[prisma torrent]

@vestal hull

her autoattacks are the weakest in the game

[vestal hull]

I know i have done everything in this game with her, i have win nightmare with all her ability's all i say is she need a buff on trait and autos

[near sapphire]

Honestly I think the very fact that she is limited by blood as a resource should mean that the cooldowns for blood-requiring abilities should be miniscule.
(Trait & power, at least. You could argue that her defense would be OP - intangible on a short 2s timer would be obscene... Although, snow queen gets that without blood! 😉 )

Regarding more Carmilla balance

• (since I think she's the worst-balanced hero at the moment, and I play a huge amount of hours with all-random):

1. Consider lowering trait's cooldown (since it's blood-limited).

2. It might also be nice to see the starting talents that are NOT bat master get a good buff.
   a) Life tap, in particular, could have her chiropteran form count as day AND night, giving her crit chance and regen? And/or trigger a limited version of "gust" and "angel and demon".
   b) Life essense could perhaps gain health when enemies bleed,
   c) Blood rage might gain 'strength' when enemies bleed.

3. I also really think that her bats should always give **stealth **when outside combat. Bat master gets unprecedented fast, stealthed map mobility; making it the only way to access her stealing is beyond the pale.

4. Then you've only got to look at seductive provocation, and I don't know how easy things are for devs here, but essentially the payoff is awful and often doesn't even prevent the target from killing carmilla with the 2-seconds of attack windup it';s readying! The ideal seems to be having the monster fight for us, but just being stunned would probably help.

I do play co-op, but not enough to argue for these in a co-op environment, so I'd be interested to know how people think they'd 'fit'
(Balance this after you've decimated coin, of course!)

[trim compass]

hey quick question what ultimate and utimate talent do you use on your carmilla run ?

[fiery garnet]

carmilla might become one of my favorite characters

[regal siren]

Where i could find any builds for carmilla? 🙂

[near sapphire]

whip + cruel strikes, everry single time no question!

Carmilla never gets the inevitable godhood she deserves without mass punishment cruel strikes!

[near sapphire]

A viewer recently requested info/demo about carmilla, so I made this:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2371652752

[drowsy shuttle]

So I currently find Carmilla to be one of the strongest heroes in the game. Lifetap, Go for the throat, and injection, with as much special, crit damage and special cooldown as you can muster makes her a guaranteed win. Just about any ability on top is gravy, but those three make the game laughable. Top that with her bite being the best way to get blood, special cooldown should be your number one target with her for items. If you have enough cooldown you can stay in wing mode indefinitely in any fight

[near sapphire]

Have you played all characters extensively? I play random, going for winstreaks, and find Carrmilla below average.

[drowsy shuttle]

Been playing since early pre - early access. I have tried a large variety of builds on all characters

Primarily solo and two player with a buddy

[blazing iron]

still surprises me that Seductive Provocation dodged getting a rework with this new update

[crimson hornet]

🤔 it did ?

well the dev dont want or dont know how to rework it then

[charred ginkgo]

I haven't played her since, but given the tweaks she received I'd have assumed her standing to have improved

[elfin swallow]

what tweaks did she get ? i didnt hear anything...i stopped playing her, it just feels bad if u can do every-thing better with another class

[quaint gorge]

3 different buffs that basically give her better blood economy.

[quaint gorge]

Whats the best multiplayer carmilla talent for a group of somewhat coordinated friends

Is it still bats? I have like 3 different people working on learning her in my group.

[near sapphire]

She's the best at consistently causing an extinction level event upon hitting level 10?! 😄
(I totally agree, btw Moonpie! I remember talking about her after she came out where we fleshed her out.)

[near sapphire]

I don't know, aggressive flock can be very irritating for allies, so bat master is just improving dispersion.

I'd guess (and it's mostly a guess) that Bat master gets very slightly weaker, Life Essence gets weaker, and Blood rage gets a tiny bit stronger,
Than they are in solo.

(I found myself using power just as much, maybe even more, on co-op, but her power level 1 talent didn't do much to help. Also, be aware that you can't change level 1 talents anymore.)

[midnight plover]

In my experience you wanna build into your power in multiplayer and start with the special execute trait for heals or the one that makes power do more dmg after being held for a second

The special heal is just in case you feel like you often need it

But if you have any characters with you that push away everything, like shite piper then might as well just build into special and defence, because good luck getting them grouped enough for power value XD

[near sapphire]

Bats do more damage than power and special for me.

(Talking level 1 talent)

[royal tree]

That' such a terrible thing to be perfectly fair 😦 That ultimate will remain forever underwhelming as long as attack modifiers don't apply to it.

[quaint gorge]

Isnt that ultimate just insane? People literally build around that ult as her strongest build.

[near sapphire]

Yeah, it's far and away the strongest ultimate in the game! Either WiseChimp was joking, or hasn't used it with cruel strikes and/or mass punishment.

[fathom vault]

tbf it sucks until level 10 and only then good with both the above talents

[plush ether]

Yeah, I don't really love where Carmilla sits as far as her skills go

[vestal hull]

Well that makes the half of us because , everything that she is doing with items everyone else can do it better without it ,its sad because i love her so much but she needs a rework or buff if you ask me , the cd redaction so far was nothing for me . #MyOpinion

[quaint gorge]

My friends have been doing fine with her. She just got like 3 small buffs.

[spice raven]

hey, guys

can someone explain what does X damage as bleed means?

1. do enemies start bleeding and receive X damage each tick
2. do enemies recieve X damage and start bleeding afterwards
3. do enemies start bleeding up to X damage

thanks for help

[compact plank]

I'm new to the game and I was wondering if you guys have any important tips and build for Carmilla

[unique copper]

bleed is just a damage over time effect, just like ignite

the spell/talent displays the total amount of damage enemies are going to receive from the bleed over its full duration

[spice raven]

Thanks for your help! So, am I correct that if I take the talent "Attack deals X% damage as bleed", it will work only once? I mean I keep attacking the foe, but it already started bleeding from my first attack.

[unique copper]

every attack refreshes the duration of the bleed

[wary hound]

am i missing something or is seductive presence incredibly bad?

[zealous hinge]

I just realized that carmilla is in love with a woman

[blazing iron]

it’s so so so bad 😭

[wary hound]

how to stay alive during night on nightmare? chip damage from spiders etc is really adding up with no healing other than healing orbs. i know there's a sustainability starter talent, but how else could i go about it? is this just a certified git gud moment?

[unique copper]

if you run bat master you can always sneak in a health shrine when you're low, or you can reroll for talents like angel and demon or boiling blood

[wary hound]

thanks, i sometimes pick bat master, but it doesnt feel that great because i usually play 2 player coop, where we rarely can afford to split up. angel and demon only gives healing during the day.
i noticed that in some runs i could recover hp by triggering boiling blood, do you happen to know at which lvl of the talent that starts working?

[unique copper]

bat master on duos is still pretty strong, at the start of the game you can go search for the green vision tower while your friend goes to clear a green camp, after you activate the tower with your stealth you can go back to your friend and help them finish clearing the camp

angel and demon generally gives you enough sustain during the day that by nightfall you're usually full hp, so you can afford to make some mistakes

I think after rare is when you start getting a net positive hp regen from boiling blood, but tbh it's not that good of a talent during the mid to late game

[wary hound]

is a green vision tower guaranteed?

[wary hound]

im usually full hp when night falls (without angel and demon), maybe im just taking too much dmg

[unique copper]

I think it is but only on chapter 1, but that's just an example, there's plenty of POI's that carmilla can sneak like vision towers, some dream shard camps and refugee camps

[unique copper]

yeah that's just a certified git gud and learn how to dodge moment

[wary hound]

fair and valid

[wary hound]

vision towers i get, but dream shards? doesnt the armor appear almost immediately when you leave stealth? hows carmilla supposed to break that quickly? refugee camp we usually leave until later, because they frequently interact with relics

[unique copper]

usually what works for me is that while you build up blood you wanna focus on bunching up as many mobs as you can, then after you use your trait you can run through them with your defense to trigger all their attacks, then you'll have like a 3-4s window of time to use your power on them

[unique copper]

the armor on the dream shards appears when you're in combat with an enemy, some camps you can destroy the dream shards with your power without aggroing any enemies

[wary hound]

ah okay i can see it working for some

thanks ill give bat master a few more tries

[unique copper]

it's always good to leave refugee camps for when you're running out of time, as carmilla you can get the teleporter that is usually inside the camp so your teammates can tp to it without having to clear all the mobs near the entrances

[wary hound]

ah i misunderstood. yeah i always take them even if i have to get into combat for them. teleporter is usually at one of the entrances

[spice raven]

Idk, I did not have survivability problems with her (at least in comparison with others).

Most of her abilities are dashes. If everything is on cd, you can even use special to dash out of boss aoe (usually she has a lot of special chrgs on all the builds since it's her main bloog generation source).

She also has a nice healing talent. When you kill smth with special you heal. Also has nice synergy with ogre blood, since the talent quest gives you 20 or 30 vitality. With buffed special you can just eat someone whenever low on health. Although, it is sometimes difficult on 3 or 4 players.

Another idea is to combine mermade tears, unicorn horn and boling blood. This way if you spend health on your special, you will fully (or almost fully, I did not fully understood what and when each thing triggers) recovered afterwards. But to me it is a bit costly in terms of items

[wary hound]

yeah i was trying to avoid picking the healing starter talent. unicorn horn feels really good on carmilla
maybe i just need to readjust, havent really played carmilla for a bit

[silent cipher]

Anyone have tips on grouping enemies and getting them all to attack together so you can effectively use power? Ive seen in yt vids that effectively clearing act 1 is all about setting up a big like 5 second power cast that wipes the whole camp

And ive been struggling to do this consistently in my games

[wary hound]

You can go pretty deep in a horde of enemies with carmilla because defense usually lets you escape unscaped. This groups up most enemies.

For holding power for a long time: keep more distance than you'd think. The orb does not need to connect to an enemy immediately. The idea is to guarantee that enemies have to move through the entire orb range before being able to hit you. In single player this will usually kill or at least stagger most non elite enemies, keeping you safe from melee attackers. That makes it mostly a question of how much blood you have to keep the orb up then. Ranged attackers are the main weskness of this strategy.

[lament coral]

I guess correctly that seductive provocation do not proc while casting power?

[quaint gorge]

Of course not. That would make it useful

[wary hound]

opinions on life tap?

[unique copper]

I'd say it's the weakest starting talent

I've had the most success with life tap by going for an attack build with black lotus, during the late game you can stay in winged form almost indefinitely by being in combat and having one or two special cooldown items

[spice raven]

do you need mermade tears for this? I don't like attack build in general (for all the characters), and when I once took it for Aladdin, I regreted it since healing was too low

[wary hound]

Yeah same. Its pretty good during the day where you can stay in winged form for most of the time, but i hardly activate it at all during night where healing is missing

[wary hound]

Thats interesting. I expeced black lotus to be rather bad on carmilla as her attack is pretty weak for the most part. I assume cruel strike ms makes this work?

Apparently black lotus does not work with the ult whips

[wary hound]

I do nothing but build dash attack on aladdin. I"d recommend giving it another chance, its pretty strong.

[spice raven]

I believe by attack built he meant attack build via ultimate. Cruel strikes, ultimate cc+dash/defense charges cooldowns. Otherwise I also can't imagine how to make her attack work

[spice raven]

I just took it "to try" I usually try power+wish exploite on Aladdin, but in general I do not like his toolkit (can't attack while special, power charge distance issues etc.), so I don't know a lot of builds on him.

Thanks) I may give it a try)

[wary hound]

i read twice on this server that the ult attacks dont trigger black lotus, so i dont think thats it

[wary hound]

yeah not all characters are going to be fun for everyone. to be honest, i really didnt like aladdin at first.
if you do give it another try, you might want to look out for acrobatics + leaping strikes, those are usually the core of my build. slide attack is good "qol", allows you to pick up your special quickly by sliding towrads it + deals decent damage

[spice raven]

thanks) i will try it)
btw did not know about the lotus. it is really weird though

[unique copper]

I don't like attack builds either, they're pretty weak, I'm just saying I've had the most success going for an attack build while using life tap

[unique copper]

The core talents are razor claws, sadism and cruel strike

[unique copper]

Nah, the whips count as ultimate damage, not attacks, so they don't proc black lotus

[unique copper]

During the early game you can use life tap once or twice per camp during the night and recover your missing hp with health orbs after you're done clearing mobs

It's a really high risk for the same dps reward you'd get from bat master or blood rage

[wary hound]

good point

[modern cape]

so got redirected here, feel free to help a newcomer to improve her carmilla experience

heres my last run, my run before even had all talents on legendary, well and 1 ultimate nearly oneshotted the chapter 3 boss.

currently im still playing adventure mode, but i think i could be ready for twilight.

if you have any tips etc, feel free to tell me

also probably my favourite talent on carmilla is Life Essence ( bonus hp and life restoration helped alot)

carmilla is close to lvl 6

[wary hound]

im gonna keep this very generic , if you want to know something more specific feel free to ask.

1. carmilla is charge hungry: bonus charges on power and special are huge. personally, i would not pick balor's eye, although it works decently well with life essence i guess. special is your main blood source and the amount of blood gained does not scale with damage done, so more charges = more blood. power charges are huge because you want to group up enemies to hit multiple at the same time. sometimes you immediately have to cancel power after grouping up enemies because some ranged attacker is shooting something or similar. having multiple power charges means you can dodge that attack and immediately recast power, so you dont loose all the damage you prepared by grouping up enemies.
2. sadism is incredible, but your only bleed option in the base kit (so without picking talents) is defense. so grouping up enemies, flying through them with defense to bleed them and then slamming power into them with sadis is _good damage ™️ _ Also, if you use defense offensively like that, defense charges/cooldown reductions are great, so youre not constantly out of defense if you actually need to dodge something.
3. carmilla dashes forwards when attacking initially, this is kind of a secret movement option. you can run faster than other characters by tapping attack in the right rhythm.

[modern cape]

to the points

1. yeah figured out that she loves having charges, tbh last run´s pick was just to see how much damage i can deal to the boss ... i wasnt disappointed. but yeah i rather have more charges

2. heard there is a offensive defence build she can do. her bleed is pretty strong

3. didnt know that, but rly good to know, probably will try that out next run

oh yeah, my steam records my gameplays, doubt that somebody wants to watch 1 hour of gameplay to critique it but if somebody wants i could upload that for better ways of giving tips

[wary hound]

not to offend anyone but in my opinion the offensive bat build is bogus. theres like 3 talents to boost defense damage output, power gets way more and they also scale way better. im sure you can run offensive bat build if you have a bajillion damage, but you could also run power instead and deal like 10x the damage.
also agressive flock is extremely double-edged. it triggers a lot of nearby enemies that you otherwise could have avoided, but i think its less of an issue on lower difficulty. just pay attention to it and see if it works for you.

[wary hound]

some remarks about special.
as you know it has 2 parts, the first on moving to your targetted location, while the 2nd moves towards you currently held direction after reaching the target while you are intangible.

0. intangability can not dodge all attacks in this game. some of the big aoe's have a yellowish outline, these will hit you even if you are intanbigle.

1. if you tap special (press and release immediately without targetting a location to move to) you can use it pretty reliably to dodge attacks. this is super helpful in general but especially during boss fights.

2. run speed stuff again. if you want to escape from an aoe that ignore intangability, tapping special and using its 2nd phase to move is not faster than running. special is only faster than running if you use the first phase to cover a large distance. you're probably better off using the attack trick to move quickly

[modern cape]

yeah figured that out with non-dodgeable attacks, my first time with scarlet teached me a bit ( also read the game manual ingame)

rly have to get into the run tech sounds strong on her

well saved my gameplay of last round, if its allowed and somebody wants to look into it, i would share it here. Also perhaps good for a laugh because i had several avoidable deaths in there

[wary hound]

tooke me quite a bit to realize that stuff with the intangability ignoring attacks. i always thougt i just messed it up lol
honestly, i forget about the run tech all the time, i think i have yet to use it to run out of a single boss aoe. let me know how it works out for you, i should pay more attention to it myself.

if you upload your run to youtube or smth and link it here, i can't see why it would not be allowed. im pretty sure a bunch of people linked youtube videos.

[modern cape]

its uploading right now, 1hour material takes some time but hey 30 % already

[modern cape]

video is up now, also im not shy, so if we somebody wants to watch and talk, im up for it

just cooking right now, gimme 15 minutes if somebody wants to live react
https://youtu.be/Cih-WKTzgl4

back again, if somebody wants to watch and talk, otherwise written is nice too

[wary hound]

Does onslaught trigger Razor Claws to apply bleed?
I never really pick onslaught because it feels bad to not be able to attack after using special without leaving the country, but if it can be used as pseudo-aoe bleed option that might be a different story...

Different question: Why does Carmilla's 1st ult sometimes deal so much dmg and hardly any on other times? I know blood increases its damage, but even with max blood it varies so much. Does it depend on enemy hitbox size and movement direction so they can get hit with multiple ult hitboxes?
I usually pick the 2nd ult, so I might be missing something fairly obvious...

[wary hound]

Are you building anything with blood reserve? I never really pick it

[gray stratus]

double ult charge+impale with blood reserve is pretty nice, but outside of that its pretty average

abit anti synergy with trait activation talents but doesnt feel terrible

[wary hound]

thanks

I've realized im always running the same build more or less.
These are some of the talents I hardly ever pick

• go for the throat
• onslaught
• puncture
• blood reserve

Anything major I'm missing out on?

[gray stratus]

not really. i think go for the throat is good early game dmg and you can flex into special build if you get the right epics

[wary hound]

is special build a thing? go for the throat + injection & special cd/charges from items?

[gray stratus]

I would say so, you dont need any other talent except throat, injection is a bonus because it gives you nice stagger source on carmilla if you are building special.

items are pretty flexible, both cd and charges are good, a mix of both tends to be the best for dps and stagger

the best way to play carmilla is batmaster and flex between defense,special and power build. I dont usually play the same build with her unless im trying to force a certain build for fun

i forgot to mention ultimate build with cruel strike, pretty fun if you hit early roses/dash items and the talent itself

[wary hound]

thanks!

[elfin swallow]

did she finnaly got buffed and is now stronger `? (havent played for 6months)

[winged sky]

btw is Life Tap that bad?
I didn't want to use it before because It read so bad.
I used it and It felt okay? But whats the point to use it. It's so specific. Idk.

[wary hound]

i dont quite get life tap either. gotta say it feels pretty powerful during the day though

[winged sky]

Idk when do you want to get it?
When you go full dmg? It certainly doesn't help you with the sustain. It could help you with that BUT you need to get the right stuff for it.
It doesn't give you a straight up bonus. It gives you a trade which MAY be useful. But I don't quite see it. I mean I only played for 50 hours aka the last 2 1/2 weeks lol. Idk what builds are good etc but this feels eh.

[blazing iron]

Carmilla’s memoirs are my favorite, it’s so tender and loving

[spice raven]

So. one instance of goldilocks porridge is now the same as legendary angel and demon?

[rapid slate]

how is Carmilla right now?
She feels a bit weird to play and I am struggling with healing in bossfights

[idle pier]

carmilla to me feels like she doesnt have quite a cohesive kit and intent as many other characters. her different abilities all want to play so differently from one another. plus there has GOT to be a friggen random weight difference for the talents so that you purposely cannot get boiling blood. ive played dozens of games now and never see it once until stage 3. its so annoying.

[idle pier]

also i really feel like if they want blood tap to work, they NEED a talent that lets you lock in a day or night effect all the time like with scarlet. because there isnt much reason to stay in one form for too long when one of her best talents procs only when initially transforming, not when using blood tap. and there just isnt enough benefit for staying in form to justfy killing yourself with blood tap when boiling blood is clearly counter weighted so you dont get it as often. not that it matters since it only triggers when sacrificing health.

which leaves carmilla with so many ways to die but no real ways to heal. I love carmilla thematically but gameplay can feel quite rough in practice sometimes with her kit. unless you wanna play the exact same playstyle each time

[brazen oasis]

I truly love the idea of love tap, but it does feel generally not worth picking. I have picked it often anyways, but I agree that you really have to force it to be useful, and even then it's still somewhat antisynergistic with her kit.

[rapid slate]

a vampire in a game is usually a character with very good health recovery by draining blood
but Carmilla did not get that treatment

[dry iron]

It feels like her healing is Scarlett werewolf but worse. Granted its at least more consistent

[young cairn]

quick questin 🙂 does injection scale with more damage with power ability?

[crude plank]

just sayin man. id let her do what ever she wants

[idle pier]

yes. to me

😛

[idle pier]

i think so. seems to anyway.

[blazing iron]

^^

[idle pier]

im so sick and tired of never getting boiling blood. 9 rerolls again this time. plus 7 level ups not being it. so in a pool of 16, no boiling blood even a single time

i swear to fking god that that talent has a much lower weight

[winged sky]

sometimes you roll your ass off and you don't get what you want. It so weird 😂

[young cairn]

is carmilla bugged?

reg doesnt wotk wtf

[spice raven]

btw, what is your boiling blood build? i tried it once, but it felt mediocre. maybe i was lacking something

[idle pier]

It's part of the bat build. Aggressive flick and disperse. Everything else is optional there but I like bleeding crit multiplier, go for the throat, and victimize.

You want 1-2 mermaid tears but 3-4 makes you pretty much unkillable.

Then defense cooldown and charges.

For books you want crit chance

But boiling blood with the blood orb is just a blood orb build with all the fixings. Ots easier to build but without the tears and the boiling blood it's extremely dangerous

[spice raven]

thanks. I usually go power or ultimate on Carmilla, used to try special, but never did defence build. I tried unicorn horn, mermaid tears and boiling blood on power, since i was told that she would be unkillable, but i did not find the final effect that great. Also it felt a little bit too expensive in terms of items (e.g. instead of horn i could have taken more eggs).

[silent token]

Finally pushed carmilia past 1M ❤️

[silent token]

👀

[willow torrent]

How does one unlock this character carmilla?

[blazing iron]

you need to beat the first boss with aladdin, sun wukong, melusine or gepetto

[sturdy salmon]

In terms of strength and stability, the build through Defense with a hybrid in Special is her strongest. In terms of solo damage to a target, Special is the best with minimal resources.
I don't fully understand why healing items are recommended, since Carmilla has almost the longest Iframes in the game. But I definitely recommend at least 1 charge or cooldown on Special in a defensive build to generate blood

[velvet prism]

Any quick Camilla advice? I find I die very early and abandon (twice now h

[sturdy salmon]

-Control the blood level, do not forget that the main generation comes from Special, so items for recharging or Special charges (1 piece) will always come in handy in any build, but they are not the main ones
-Defense can deal normal damage when passing through enemies, do not neglect it. For survivability, learn to use the invulnerability windows with Special (invulnerability frames work at the very moment and after the bite, but not while moving towards the target).
-In defense, the movement speed is greatly increased. This can be used well between PoI.
-In the early game, a very important skill is to gather enemies together for damage from your Power. In the early game, this is one of the best AoE.
-At night, Carmilla has a higher critical chance, and there is also an increase in critical chance from talents, so increasing critical damage is a good direction for character development (especially in the Special build).
-There is no build through Attack. There is a variation of the build on the Ultimate through the Attack button, but it opens much later, it is better to test the build for Defense, Special and Power (in that order) at the beginning.
-Don't rush during combat! The ability to position yourself is very important for the character (that's why it can often be more difficult in co-op)

[velvet prism]

God her kill with special quest is lame

Aiming her special is much tougher than it seems like it should be

[sturdy salmon]

I would recommend choosing Bat Master or Blood Rage as your starting talents

[velvet prism]

Yeah, that starting talent sucked. But I wanted the outfit 😛

[silent token]

Such a blessed run

just missing sadism and balor eyes

sadly couldn't find them with the few rerolls I had

[spice raven]

I think it is fine though. With new version of blood mirror, it gives more damage than power talent and gives you heal. Although, I sometimes do not even finish it😅

[sturdy salmon]

I would also put Agressive floack instead of talents on Power

[silent token]

Agressive flocks messes with the aggro too much in multiplayer. Also, it prevent carmilia to go full stealth across the map, which is her main utility for the team.

[silent token]

Loading with cheats (Prince Ali)

[sturdy salmon]

I honestly don't have any problems with the scouting and aggressive floack mechanics, because the talent only works during combat. But as you prefer, it just adds a lot of DPS

I understand that talent adds complexity to the skill, which is much more difficult in multiplayer scaling

[worn frigate]

New to camilla any good talent to look out for?

And whats the best starting quest? Ty

[sturdy salmon]

What does a quest mean to you?

[sturdy salmon]

Depends on the build, but in general there are many.

Just strong talents without being tied to a build: Dispersion, Bat Master, Aggressive floak, injection, Go For The Throat.
Gust can also show itself well without a build, but if you are planning a specific build (Defense, Special, Power), then it most likely won't fit

[worn frigate]

Thanks man appreciate it 👍