dev-chat

[dark moth]

just keep in mind garage has no build in ui, but there are community made ones

[astral lake]

Would you recommend one?

And if you have ever used it before, compared to garage how different?

[dark moth]

Garage seems to be the more lightweight one, but with less options. Also european backed vs seaweedfs being chinese in case you care about that

But both are seemingly solid options

For new people the ui is prob gona matter more

[vast sail]

😔 ✌️

[patent carbon]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[boreal coral]

are bots able to view if a user has nitro (and for how long) and also if theyre boosting (and for how long) ? bcs i saw a bot doing it but im not sure if thats something supposed to happen or theyre just scrapping xd

[patent carbon]

not anymore

the identify.premium is now needed to see nitro tier of a user... but from my understand it does not show how long... just if you are

i would have to double check for boosting

[boreal coral]

i see, so if i had to guess id say that the bot i saw is prob scrapping the info or something like that, thanks

[neat olive]

boosting would be kinda doable with checking e.g. per-server roles

[boreal coral]

i see

the bot can also get this info from users that dont have it installed in tehir acc so its defo scrap anyways

[visual flint]

do you guys know how long intent applications take or if you get notified if it got declined or not? I sent an intent application like a month ago and i was gonna check the ticket status today but its not in the support website even though i got a gmail saying the ticket was recieved and everything... nothing else since

[patent carbon]

you always get notified after they respond... some users are reporting 6-8 week wait times... but there's no official answer on how long they take

[dark moth]

The ticket only becomes visible once they reply

[visual flint]

that makes sense!!! well thank you both for the answer! my bot is closing in on 100 servers and it was stressing me out 😭

i suppose i just have to wait it out

[patent carbon]

that or temporary pause functionality that uses the intent until your request is approved

obviously not possible for all applications

[open temple]

Is it only verified bots that can set per server pfp, bio etc?

[olive depot]

No, all bots can

[open temple]

Is it in the docs?

[verbal wraith]

https://docs.discord.com/developers/resources/guild#modify-current-member

[olive depot]

That's wild

[upbeat anchor]

now this is why you make the part with heading and thumbnail one section and the rest its own so its not sooo restricted horizontally

[olive depot]

i wasn't showing the embed, but the content in it, anyway

[upbeat anchor]

oh who has time to read

[dark moth]

Ok so i got garage to work, only now to realize there is no proper user and token policies...

[floral rapids]

the only time i need ai (other than making first-look website) to check if my codebase has some hidden issues that i couldn't find, it lets me down due to people overloading the servers 🥀

[dark moth]

Its internal only, but either i leave it or replace it with something else that does have policies

[patent carbon]

Isn't selling permissions against the content guidelines?

[olive depot]

I guess... Asian servers are just weird

[floral prism]

I guess... Because they're not westren

[weary bluff]

Is that 10k, $10,000?

🤨

[floral prism]

What do you mean.. 10k is 10,000

[olive depot]

35$

[weary bluff]

Still a lot ngl

[floral prism]

What are you even talking about

[weary bluff]

Also wtf is ban card lmao

[olive depot]

Yep, ain't paying a penny to look more cringe in a cringe server

[dark moth]

let's stay on topic

[olive depot]

Ban people maybe

[weary bluff]

Hey, staff team I don’t like their username so let’s ban them with using Discord API, idk sounds so absurd xd
-# staying on the topic

[olive depot]

be aware from AEnterprise

[dark moth]

trying to loophole like that is just malicious compliance that will get you removed

[weary bluff]

I was staying on the topic but alr

[grave temple]

ا

[modest geyser]

AE any interesting scams today?

[weary bluff]

Stay on topic

[patent carbon]

#rules read the first thing in there

[floral rapids]

oh well had a question but i'm unsure if it's on-topic or not 🤔 it is a bit bot development related (in a way they do earn a role, so if it's not understood correctly), here's the question:
i know it is, but does this apply to in server currency too? ofc they aren't actual $, but like e.g 100 gems (which you can grind in /daily or /work idk) for sending image permission or something?
-# if it's not on-topic feel free to delete, i do appreciate if it's possible to link me to somewhere i could get an answer though

[weary bluff]

I’m wondering for a while why Discord doesn’t let people have RPC without local running

[dark moth]

not really, messing with garage for s3 storage today

bit more work then anticipated but getting there

[modest geyser]

Ive had a few spikes on my graph today nothing special really

[olive depot]

Pay virtual currency to buy server perks?

I do have similar item related stuff in my economy module, users can buy items ( which can be a role, custom role ) with bot balance

[versed creek]

Why did bro try😭

I was just jokingly saying it after you showed the rizz thing

[tight mural]

Yeah I added the rizz model cause not many people are good at talking to people so I just did it for fun

[versed creek]

Ik ik I was just joking

[tight mural]

Ok

[floral rapids]

yeah I'm aware of items, but what I'm worried about is the "roles" part, but I'm guessing it should be fine, since it's user's guild balance (bot)

[olive depot]

🤷‍♂️

[cloud elm]

Hi Im developer

[lethal pier]

Hi Developer

[floral prism]

Bro literally took WHOLE day to respond

[patent carbon]

sometimes it just ain't active here

[stuck bough]

Im a dev

[rugged vector]

timezone

[patent carbon]

ideally... so is everyone here

[eager tapir]

yes

i new

[stuck bough]

https://youtube.com/shorts/jnAKklC6Yn0?si=2NYSP6QpbEGn6AVh

Handsome

Nice iPhone 16 pro

[patent carbon]

lest keep this channel server dev related... not random stuff like this

[lethal pier]

that is awfully optimistic

[patent carbon]

i know

[eternal phoenix]

Hm

[weary bluff]

yes

They saw it Sam

[sinful mirage]

Could I say one thing off-topic?

[tired obsidian]

No, it’s off-topic

There are plenty of other servers where your off-topic banter is on-topic

[sinful mirage]

I can’t go to the official Discord server where I wanted to talk…

[tired obsidian]

That doesn’t change anything

[patent carbon]

this is not an alternative to townhall... if that's what you're saying

[tired obsidian]

You know it’s off-topic. Which is against the rules

So just don’t, yeah?

[weary bluff]

Can I say something on topic?

[tired obsidian]

Maybe?

[patent carbon]

something on topic

[weary bluff]

Linked roles api is good and so underrated

[patent carbon]

i agree... it's poorly understood so most just don't know how it works or what it does

[tired obsidian]

To be fair it’s above my head

[weary bluff]

If only we could have separate metadata for guilds separately…

I also saw some servers got access to add their game as connection in the onboarding

Such a cool feature

https://tenor.com/view/spotting-a-butterfly-pops-maellard-regular-show-smiling-happy-gif-3781305806817659473

[trim geode]

agreed. I've never needed it, but I agree

[patent carbon]

ive not needed it... but could have used it, if i understood it better

[trim geode]

do you all remember that dude who was begging for contributors to their project?

Hasn't been active since they were banned

I just happened to still have the repo up on my workstation because I don't close tabs lmao

[cunning coyote]

i hate unicode :) more specifically dealing with it in code

[dark moth]

use binary and make it someone elses problem

[cunning coyote]

[modern jasper]

Someone know where I can find a well-made doc for new V2 components bot

[flint epoch]

Component Reference - Container

[patent carbon]

here's the official docs... unless you are looking for the docs for hour library

or you can use https://discord.builders/ for a web based builder for them

[modern jasper]

Thx

[lime ocean]

Hello everyone. I have a question, how can I insert an image that when you click on the image it opens the link? It's that on a server I want to put images that when you click on them they take you to YT, TikTok, and other apps.

[dark moth]

have a webserver respond with an image when discord requests it, and an redirect when a browser does

not really easy and generally a bad idea as it's the least obvious and most confusing way to do that for end users

[modest geyser]

I hate qt so much

[lime ocean]

but im trying to do it, to agree an image with my Tiktok, Twitch an other apps

and when you click on the image, redirect to the tiktok or the app

[dark moth]

again: worst idea i've heard all day

just put links, users know to click those

nobody is gona try to open your images thinking it might go somewhere other then the image

[lime ocean]

ok, and thanks for the suggestions

[modest geyser]

Also pretty sure impossible to do on discord i think they mean when they user would click the image which normally full screens it that it would open a link

[dark moth]

it works if they also click 'open original'

[modest geyser]

Yea

Which is REALLY unintuitive

[dark moth]

so again: nobody in their right mind is gona do that and expect it to go anywhere other then the image

[lime ocean]

ok, then i note it

[foggy inlet]

my main id got banned having 18k members . reason someone drop nsfw video and i ban him made me loss my id under secound

[dark moth]

yeah no you're making baseless assumptions here

[foggy inlet]

i made ticket but taking long ig

[dark moth]

file an appeal with support and wait for them to reply

but nobody here can make it go any faster

[polar thunder]

can anyone brute decrypt this algorithm, i just made a new encryption algorithm

DC000A76D4230AC3A77B9261E61E8A8F4D9C4C538E147EFFB5525C85CE50C34D

[foggy inlet]

am owner , why i drop nsfw in my own place .

[neon slate]

hi guys, i need advice ASAP: my friend literally just got hacked. he wasnt thinking and gave someone his email and is now logged out of his account. is there any way we can get his account either back, or deleted? because there was sensitive info in his dms with his friends.

[foggy inlet]

ohk

[dark moth]

!support

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[neon slate]

problem is, my friend cant log into his discord account to make a support ticket. he was hacked out.

[dark moth]

support portal is completely independant

it does not use your discord credentials at all

see the giant banner on the page that links to the article explaining that, and how to submit a ticket

they really can't make it any bigger

[neon slate]

alright, thank you. u didnt need to add that last part in, that was lowkey kinda rude

[dark moth]

wasn't ment to be rude, just to get you to read the page

cause if that big an banner doesn't do the trick, i'm not sure what else does it

[quiet saddle]

with no context this is just a meaningless byte string

what's the algorithm?

[polar thunder]

wait

[foggy inlet]

gg i lost my 18k server

[dark moth]

please stop and move on. we can't help you

wait for support to reply

[pale hull]

I dont think it is feasibly possible to decrypt a message encoded with no information about the algorithm and only having one string of what seems to be only a couple dozen charecters.

[modest geyser]

^

[polar thunder]

GF(2^8)
prime based brutal bit rotation
circulant 8×8 MDS Matrix Diffusion
feistel network structure
xor round subkey Injection
keccak based key expansion
nlfsr entropy folding
Arnold's cat map torus permutation
constant time cubic hardening
quantum save feistel
memory hard temporal fortress
post quantum lattice binding concept
blake3 integrity seal concept
multi round non linear diffusion layer
GF(2^8) finite field arithmetic
avalabche oriented mixing layer
dynamic prime rotation schulde
hyburd symmetric chiper architecture
block based cryptographic transformation
entropy amplification pipeline

:v

[quiet saddle]

You claim to be using a Post Quantum Feistel Network in your design - I'm not aware of any in existence, certainly none that have been standardized

[quiet saddle]

honestly it sounds like you just looked up "terms related to symmetric encryption" and put this list together

[polar thunder]

hmm

[quiet saddle]

I mean these are just terms. you haven't described an actual algorithm

[torpid kayak]

Hello i’m brazilian developer and i’m not speak English so mutch

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[jade current]

👋

[cunning plume]

Is there a way to keep containers from "Shrinking" eg always make them full-width without hacky solutions? Eg I could add a bunch of empty characters, or an image to force it, but curious if there are any other known solutions?

[viscid steppe]

Probably adding select

[rancid frigate]

hey i create my discord bot how i get a badge?

[quiet saddle]

don't advertise

[runic field]

The active developer badge was removed a long time ago.

[deep wren]

u cant dev badge got deleted

[cunning plume]

Nah adding a select doesn't do the trick either. Plus that's hackier than the other solutions xD

[viscid steppe]

What are the other solutions

[cunning plume]

The only ones I know are arbitrary invisible characters or a custom image divider

[viscid steppe]

You know it's rendering differently from mobile to web, invis characters would break mobile view hard

[daring wasp]

mobile usually always stretches the container to max
on tablet, containers have variable size but separator stretches them a considerable amount

and web is just fully variable

[worldly oasis]

hi, long time no see, guys

[viscid steppe]

Yeah the problem is if you insert invis characters on mobile there will be awkward blank lines

[verbal wraith]

[cunning plume]

Would seem the image is the only way to go then..

I can do a 1px X 500px image that will force it, but I have to make sure it loads FAST or it'll end up looking jenky as all getout.

[pulsar galleon]

iceman

[pale hull]

What is the objective of trying to make the container wider.

[polar thunder]

yes, I am still making the full documentation in a whitepaper in docx format.

also, it's not 100% pure yet because it's still in rust, C, PHP and others are still having errors, so it will still be a long time before it's published.

[lime otter]

how can i make my first project

[quiet saddle]

An algorithm publication does not typically contain code bound to any particular language... pseudocode, sometimes, but primarily formal proofs. This is a symmetric scheme, correct...? I'm wondering why you're using lattice module cryptography, which is almost exclusively used in asymmetric schemes for key encapsulation/decapsulation

[pale hull]

First project for what? Just in general or related to Discord?

[lime otter]

first project in c++

i dont really know where to start though

[pale hull]

Have you learned the basics of c++?

[lime otter]

most of them

[pale hull]

Then you should start simple. Something like a guessing game. I will send a website with a list of starter projects

[viscid steppe]

First project in C++: decide on which build system to use

[pale hull]

https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling

[polar thunder]

fair point. lox-617 ( my own algorithm) is a symmetric block cipher. I’m using lattice-based logic specifically to harden the Key Schedule, not for the data encryption itself. The goal is Key Entanglement—making the relationship between subkeys as mathematically complex as a "hard problem" to prevent algebraic key-recovery.
As for the 'Post-Quantum Feistel' claim, it refers to the integration of these lattice-inspired layers and the 16,384-byte memory-hard Temporal Fortress to resist future hardware-accelerated attacks. I agree that formal proofs are the standard; this document is currently a technical specification of a research prototype intended for benchmarking and peer-review

[pale hull]

Is that AI LLM slop

[jade current]

AI slop

[grim pawn]

emdashes my beloved

makes it readable

except it's not

[polar thunder]

I can't speak English so I asked AI to help translate

[pale hull]

Could you put the original message through Google translate and paste the result here

[quiet saddle]

"Temporal Fortress" is not a term I have seen in any cryptography literature, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean there.

Going for the "memory-hard" angle is a peculiar choice for an encryption algorithm - you generally want it to be fast, but you're deliberately slowing it down.

You still haven't said anything about the encryption algorithm itself - with the Feistel network.

[polar thunder]

temporal fortress is my internal term for the memory hard key derivation phase. i’m aware encryption is usually optimized for speed, but the "memory-hard" choice is a deliberate trade-off to increase the cost of ASIC/FPGA based brute-force attacks during the key setup. once the subkeys are expanded, the actual encryption remains fast.
As for the Feistel Network itself:
it’s a 16-round balanced structure. the f-function integrates a GF(2^8) S-Box, an 8x8 Circulant MDS Matrix, and Arnold’s Cat Map for bit-permutation. this ensures that even with a feistel structure, we achieve full diffusion much faster than traditional designs. essentially, I'm using SPN-style diffusion layers inside a feistel round to maximize the avalanche effect.

[quiet saddle]

good lord

[tight mural]

I made a random security bot just for fun and I'm finally done

[pale hull]

🤖

[polar thunder]

exactly. you’ve summarized the architecture perfectly.
The core philosophy of lox-617 is to use the Feistel Network as the secure "container" while utilizing SPN-style primitives (MDS and S-Box) inside the F-function to solve the slow diffusion problem typically found in classic Feistel ciphers.
By integrating Arnold’s Cat Map specifically for bit-shuffling, we ensure that the avalanche effect isn't just limited to byte-level changes but reaches bit-level chaos within the first 2 rounds. The Memory-Hard setup is simply a modern "gatekeeper" to ensure that the speed of the cipher serves the legitimate user, not an attacker with an ASIC farm.
I'm currently benchmarking the exact Avalanche Coefficient—early tests show it hits ~50% bit-flip probability very rapidly

[pale hull]

[daring wasp]

hi wolfy and madeline

[winged swan]

i got pinged here?

[pale hull]

Hi sora

[quiet saddle]

So - is this one algorithm, or multiple? Because you're describing a KDF and an AEAD here. And AES256GCM is already Post Quantum, so there isn't a lot of motivation in the crypto community right now to expend any energy on symmetric ciphers.

[patent carbon]

Ping

[winged swan]

https://tenor.com/view/bane-no-banned-and-you-are-explode-gif-16047504

[quiet saddle]

Where's your peer review? Where are your sources? Where is the cryptanalysis?

[frigid harbor]

63 hours..

[patent carbon]

That's rookie numbers for her

I'm surprised it's not >100

[polar thunder]

that’s exactly why I’m sharing it here. as an independent research project, I’m currently in the pre-publication phase.
The cryptanalysis and formal peer review are what I’m looking for from the community. I’ve documented the internal logic and mathematical primitives (MDS, Arnold's Cat Map, GF arithmetic) in my technical spec, and now I need eyes on it to find the weaknesses I might have missed.
As for sources, the design draws inspiration from established concepts like Rijndael's MDS diffusion and Argon2's memory-hardening, but the hybrid integration is my own. I'm not claiming it’s a "standard"—I’m presenting it as a candidate for review.

[quiet saddle]

Presenting it to whom? Also it's strange of you to refer to this as a Feistel cipher and at the same time make multiple claims of drawing inspiration from Rijndael - which uses a completely different network and is not a Feistel cipher at all

If you want peer review, show me the spec.

[pale hull]

Could you at least make a thread if you are going to post LLM slop

[polar thunder]

i'm aware that Rijndael is an SPN and not a Feistel network. when I say I draw inspiration from it, I'm referring specifically to the mathematical primitives, not the network topology.
LOX-617 uses a Feistel structure as the outer framework, but inside the F-function, I’ve integrated SPN-style components like the GF(2^8) S-Box and the 8x8 Circulant MDS Matrix (similar to the MixColumns transformation in Rijndael).
The goal is to bring the high-diffusion efficiency of SPN into the reversible structure of a Feistel network. As for "presenting it"—I’m presenting it here to the developer community for initial peer-review and technical scrutiny before I finalize the formal paper.

[winged swan]

lol what

[jade current]

Pong

[winged swan]

🤨

[patent carbon]

[jade current]

👋

[quiet saddle]

Okay so let's see it then?

[jade current]

Where .env

[cunning plume]

The goal is to make the containers, across multiple messages, with different/variadic text, a consistent width.

Eg this, to me, looks like hot garbage all jumbled up together.

[polar thunder]

I've said it, sir, I said earlier that it's still not 100% and the documentation is still lacking, now only rust C is working yet

I'll let you know later when it's done

[solid wind]

a lot of the info there is unnecessary, the real issue is clutter imo

[tight mural]

I didnt use a .env its in the config file

[jade current]

Why not .env

Dotenv files are cool

[cunning plume]

Unnecessary how? You don't even know what it does or it's purpose so your statement is entirely unfounded....

[tight mural]

cause i just made a config file and desided to add it there

[jade current]

Does your config file contain stuff other than constants?

[solid wind]

e.g. you dont need all of this, its all redundant

[quiet saddle]

I'm not a "sir", and no you haven't said anything of substance - you're just tossing around LLM-generated crypto jargon without any real understanding. If you had a spec, you could produce it in 10 seconds. You don't.

[tight mural]

yeah it stores everything that can be configured

[cunning plume]

No that's not redundant, sometimes it shows @unknown-user so the other fields make it possible to track it down. The display name can change, and the username is the source of truth

If you know how to make it always show the user with the mention, I'm all ears, but I've never been able to get it redundant, and this is an updating application to data truthiness is very important.

The discord ID is important in case someone wants to create a report/warning for a user that may have left the discord through another system, a record that can be trusted on member leaves.

[jade current]

But it's clickable though? The mention, that is

[daring wasp]

https://discord.com/users/1493074171083886634
works

plus yea the mention is clickable

[cunning plume]

The mention will not expose the underlying information if it's in "Unknown" status

[daring wasp]

^ the link would work

[polar thunder]

i’m not trying to hide behind jargon. here is the F-function logic directly from my source to clarify the design. It’s a work in progress, but the implementation of the MDS matrix and Arnold’s Cat Map is already functional

// Simplified look at the F-function logic
void f_function(uint8_t *half_block, uint8_t *subkey) {
// 1. Non-linear layer
sub_bytes(half_block);

// 2. Linear Diffusion 
mix_columns_mds(half_block); 

// 3. Bit-level Permutation 
apply_arnolds_cat_map(half_block);

// 4. Key Addition
xor_with_subkey(half_block, subkey);

}

i’m currently finalizing the LaTeX documentation for the full spec. I'll share the PDF/docx as soon as the Test Vectors are verified. I'm 15 and still learning, but the math behind the MDS and Feistel structure is what I'm focused on, not just "jargon".

[daring wasp]

im not sure if it works on the pc app though

[daring wasp]

I know it does work on the mobile

[solid wind]

there are tons of viable workarounds too. for the purpose of showing the outcome of a form (?) that sort of info is not important, and i assume you're storing the data elsewhere so you can retrieve later if needed. a view should contain the relevant information for its purpose, not everything for the sake of it

[jade current]

It opens Chrome lol

[cunning plume]

The link is a thought, I'm going to see if that's viable. On PC it's rendering as the full link, so from a display perspective, it'd be a terrible user experience.

[daring wasp]

😭 only a mobile feature then?

[daring wasp]

link buttons/hyperlink

[cunning plume]

HMMMMM...

Now you're talking, but it opens up the browser so link wont work.

[daring wasp]

yeah it prolly doesn't work on pc

ok mobile it opens up the user profile with no lag

[quiet saddle]

if you're genuinely interested in learning about cryptography, that's an endeavor that I can support, but please don't send LLM-generated content in this server and expect that people won't see right through it

[polar thunder]

i get why it looks that way, especially since I'm using english which isn't my first language to explain complex stuff. but the logic is mine.
for example, implementing the 8x8 MDS Matrix in C was a headache because i had to make sure the branch number was optimal for diffusion. or how i had to adapt Arnold's Cat Map (which is usually for image pixels) to work on 128-bit half-blocks for bit-shuffling. that’s not something i just "generated" i spent nights debugging why the avalanche effect wasn't hitting 50% in the first 2 rounds.
i’m genuinely trying to learn. if you want to support that, I'd appreciate a critique on the MDS multiplication logic or how i handle the Key entanglement once i post the snippet. no LLM, just me trying to build something cool

[cunning plume]

That's totally fair, but most of the information on those forms is hidden behind that "Info" button, this is just the quick access information to help staff onboard users safely. It's an onboarding system with manual approval processes. It also has information for when users are inactive, have been banned, and various other functions/features to help discord servers keep abreast of guilds, communities, etc.. Users have expressly asked for that information to always be front and center, and every attempt I've made to either reduce or move has resulted in backlash. So even if you're right, the user wins

[restive spoke]

is anyone here able to help me with official discord support

[quiet saddle]

Sure, I'd be happy to look it over

[jade current]

!support

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[polar thunder]

appreciate it. Here’s a snippet of the F-function where I integrate the MDS matrix and the bit-shuffling.

i'm specifically curious about the MDS transformation I used—I implemented it using a circulant matrix in GF(2^8). Do you think an 8x8 matrix is overkill for a 128-bit half-block, or does it provide a significantly better diffusion margin compared to the 4x4 used in AES?

pub fn lox_gf256_mul(
mut a: u8,
mut b: u8
) -> u8 {

let mut p = 0u8;

for _ in 0..8 {

    if (b & 1) != 0 {
        p ^= a;
    }

    let hi =
        a & 0x80;

    a <<= 1;

    if hi != 0 {
        a ^= 0x1B;
    }

    b >>= 1;
}

p

}

pub fn lox617_mds_apply(
block: &mut [u8; 8]
) {

let mds: [u8; 8] = [
    0x17, 0x31,
    0x59, 0x83,
    0xA7, 0xC1,
    0xD3, 0xEF
];

let mut temp =
    [0u8; 8];

for i in 0..8 {

    for j in 0..8 {

        temp[i] ^=
            lox_gf256_mul(
                block[j],
                mds[
                    (i + j) % 8
                ]
            );
    }
}

*block = temp;

}

Also, I’m still fine-tuning the Arnold's Cat Map implementation to ensure it doesn't introduce any unintended periodicities in the bit-shuffling. Any thoughts on that?

code snippet from rust

[forest pine]

How much storage capacity does a Discord server have?

[winged swan]

is this just Ai again

ah i c

[quiet saddle]

it does yield more diffusion, but the compute is higher - real tests would show if it's worth the tradeoff. how did you derive the 8 constants in mds?

[jade current]

Wrong server; no recruitment

[limpid nacelle]

This seever have somw good staffs i guss

[daring wasp]

no hiring/recruitment here

[jade current]

Not the server for that

[daring wasp]

this is a dev community not a staff community + recruitment not allowed here

[limpid nacelle]

Ok sorry

[charred laurel]

For everyone?

[polar thunder]

for the constants, i aimed for a circulant MDS Matrix to keep the implementation efficient while maximizing the branch number. i selected the coefficients in GF(2^8) to ensure the matrix is non-singular and provides an optimal differential and linear branch number.

to be honest, I'm still refining the search for the "perfect" constants using a script to verify the MDS property (ensuring every sub-square matrix is non-singular). currently, I'm testing with a set of constants that minimize the number of XORs/shifts in the multiplication to keep the performance hit from the 8x8 size manageable.

do you have a recommended method for verifying the branch number more formally, or perhaps a specific generator polynomial you'd suggest for an 8x8 over GF(2^8)?

[daring wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/tbh-creature-gif-25772842

just message more left

[last night]

H­i

What is that?

[olive depot]

Yess, remove the ai generated part

🤷‍♂️

[daring wasp]

bluishpurple gradient moment

[olive depot]

Blurplish*

[balmy basin]

Remove the site

[tropic spade]

Faah

[olive depot]

The screenshot tells nothing what's its about

[daring wasp]

seems like a discord copy

[olive depot]

Ahhh the confidence

[daring wasp]

will do this after eating :3

[jade current]

:horror:

[daring wasp]

what's up with the horror 😭

i was just getting annoyed with writing if else everywhere there was an optional enum

[weary bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-tornado-help-sora-gif-6649348202545878265

What if you have taste of blue color

You can just say to bypass that words used on you

[loud fulcrum]

💔

[weary bluff]

Guys, also are you still counted as dev/coder when you paste codes as from snippets or tracing an AI art to draw it, is it making you artist too?

[olive depot]

Holy @daring wasp

[weary bluff]

I wish Sora was not deprecated

[olive depot]

🤦

[daring wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-plink-glasses-side-eye-smart-gif-11422187893182432522

[hot carbon]

这是咋回事啊？有遇到过的吗？

post https://discord.com/api/v9/applications
{"message": "缺少权限","code": 50001}

这是咋回事啊？有遇到过的吗？

[native pilot]

try a different name maybe? and this server is English only

[cunning plume]

This has to be the absolute cleanest onboarding experience ever xD

[bleak pond]

smooth

[lyric escarp]

it is, wow.

[neat olive]

I would not read all that

[cunning plume]

Only took me 2yr of coding to get it to this point lol.

[cunning plume]

You wouldn’t read 2 sentences, 3 at most? That’s crazy work

[neat olive]

(also most of that is literally just replicating onboarding but worse)

[lyric escarp]

Like how can you not love component v2?

it's just the greatest thing

[cunning plume]

You’re a troll clearly. Onboarding is ass, and any serious discord knows it.

Let’s auto-hide channels when no one asks for it. Let’s surface channels when staff accidentally moves a channel. Let’s hide all channels when a user has it enabled because a channel was created or deleted.

[lyric escarp]

would you read all this

[neat olive]

no

[cunning plume]

Also, this function has manual approval processes and moderation you don’t see going on behind the scenes.

[daring wasp]

not really, its good for a non programmer and offers enough customisability for an average discord server
bots are more customizable

^your hide channel point is very understandable i dont like it either

[lyric escarp]

it's like windows babysitting you

[neat olive]

outside of the third container?

[cunning plume]

The application flow is the only reason I built it.

[neat olive]

the third container does seem like it's not just onboarding, everything else seems like it very much is

[daring wasp]

i just looked at message object so scary 😭 i have to implement it (partially)

[cunning plume]

There an entire administration function that all of that links to

[lyric escarp]

uhm

why note the last sentence twice?

[jade current]

Holy text

[cunning plume]

One word… “Users”

[lyric escarp]

clearly havent seen this

[neat olive]

all or that is duplicate

[untold nova]

guys

@misty cipher

[jade current]

💀

[lyric escarp]

well true people tend to forget that discord ui exist when they read dev created content

like the "hello" automod for example

[neat olive]

I think most people understand ephemeral content just fine, esp. qhwn the message already says it

also the text literally just lists the buttons right below it for some reason

[cunning plume]

Hopefully that makes my point however. It puts discords onboarding to shame 😂

[neat olive]

it's all duplicate text

[neat olive]

it really doesn't

[cunning plume]

Ragebait much? Muted

[daring wasp]

theyre both equally viable

[neat olive]

most of it is actively worse and you have a single feature onboarding doesn't support in there to justify replacing an entire flow

[lyric escarp]

that's what we all do

[quiet saddle]

not me

[lyric escarp]

create a whole new thing to add 1 single feature to the existing one

[cunning plume]

I agree it has its place.

[lyric escarp]

like this totally isn't from risky's honeypot

(it isn't, it has a different filtering)

[neat olive]

most of what was created here could just be done using the native feature, and it'd be easier to just have this one bit as separate than reimplement the native feature

[lyric escarp]

because native re-implement what was missing, but only when we start doing it ourselves.

[viscid steppe]

Don't you love reinventing the wheel?

[quiet saddle]

to be fair, "honeypot" is not exactly an novel concept

[lyric escarp]

i mean it should be called flycatcher or something

[quiet saddle]

you realize risky didn't invent that design or the term right

[neat olive]

honeypot is a technical term :p

[lyric escarp]

i know...

[neat olive]

though tbh I'm not quite sure these things qualify

[lyric escarp]

I first seen this term when visiting RIT and looked it up.

[quiet saddle]

I've seen servers employ similar things with bots long before risky's honeypot was a thing

[neat olive]

they're not exactly trying to appear legitimate, at least not to normal users

and yeah it's been a thing for a while, inc. with onboarding roles

[pine galleon]

Hi guys I'm back

[cunning plume]

You are so ignorant it’s wild. Here is everything it does.

• Auto role assignments before and after application
• Manual application process with form collection.
• Application status DMs
• Inactivity Monitoring
• Reporting Monitoring
• Per app notes
• Application history and frequency
• Analytics tracking
• Data & Reporting
• Cross-server watchlist Notifications

Basically a whole bunch of stuff that onboarding doesn’t dream to do and certainly more than “One thing”.

It’s built with the express purpose of preventing people hoping discord to get a guild invite in a game or similar, and leaving making staff wonder where someone is or if they should or should not have access.

[lyric escarp]

whoa whoa whoa

[quiet saddle]

I don't think he will read all of that

[cunning plume]

Don’t assume, ask

He won’t, he’s dense

[neat olive]

I actually did

[lethal pier]

morning chat!

[quiet saddle]

morning

[pine galleon]

Morning

[neat olive]

but I'm grouping all of that as a single feature in my description nonetheless

[frigid harbor]

morning guys

[cunning plume]

Okay

[quiet saddle]

that's a little uncalled for I'd say, also I disagree

[neat olive]

and my comment was specifically referring to the third container in the non-native onboarding flow as the only unique feature

[cunning plume]

He’s attempting to rage bait and assuming with absolutely no context. It’s deserved

[neat olive]

I don't think it's a bad feature (though not like I've used it), my issue is with the rest of the containers, which I do think should be replaced by the native onboarding flow

[cunning plume]

That’s a much better way to state it. Be clear in your intention or other people will find you to be a problem.

[pine galleon]

Bro can we make bot from vibe coading

[cunning plume]

I wouldn’t disagree with that statement, if you’re okay with onboarding. Personally I am not

[cunning plume]

Sure, until it breaks 😂

[neat olive]

specifically the role selects here could easily be done natively, and the feature onboarding has for showcasing channels works great also

[pine galleon]

No it not brake it work

[jade current]

AI is bad at it

Why not learn how to code without using AI

[viscid steppe]

In my opinion, just use a public bot
Or actually pay someone to make an actual good bot without a thousand vulnerabilities

[pine galleon]

So vibe coding is not good

[daring wasp]

AI has like months old api reference unless you explicitly point it to the docs

[daring wasp]

no, its not for anything beyond prototyping

[cunning plume]

If you know what you’re doing AI can help, but if you expect to get away with no coding, you’re gonna burn some serious tokens over one little thing not working. It won’t happen early, only once you’re invested, and then you can be left with slop and nothing done at the end of the day.

[quiet saddle]

Criticism of someone's design, approach, or opinion is valid as long as it's delivered in a respectful way, but personal attacks are not welcome

[cunning plume]

It’s gonna be a “;” out of place and you’ll spend $200 and 4 days finding it xD

[daring wasp]

^ yep it can only help you if you already know what you're doing

[cunning plume]

Or it’ll DROP your database, if you can manage to connect it lol

[viscid steppe]

Actually things like missing semi colon would be solved by it reading the error from linter/lsp. Agents nowadays don't reread thru all the code to spot the error first

[jade current]

> "Fix this code"
> Comments all your code

[cunning plume]

I was making a funny

[quiet saddle]

Pure. No side-effects. Immutable. I approve.

[daring wasp]

# :rocket: Super Fast — Production Ready Version

[neat olive]

🤮

[quiet saddle]

In fact I think all code should just be commented out

[viscid steppe]

No code solution

The actual one

[quiet saddle]

Yes. This is the way.

[cunning plume]

Seriously, AI is really good at simple, repetitive things that are very well defined. Eg interfaces and typing support.

It’s also really good if you have a strong architectural pattern and coding standards.

If you have neither, your only hope is to tell it “One shot and make no mistakes

[quiet saddle]

I one shot a whole python library for Discord with Claude

[daring wasp]

Claude, gimme a million dollar app

[bleak pond]

and then 800 errors

[quiet saddle]

no idea if it works, I never tried it

it was over 10,000 lines off one prompt lmao

[daring wasp]

😭😭

[cunning plume]

How do you even get Claude to run that long without absolutely nuking your tokens? I’ve heard of people having long running sessions but no clue how they do that crap

[lyric escarp]

madeline is secretly anthropic ceo

[quiet saddle]

it failed a few times and I just clicked the button "keep trying"

by the end of the day it was done

[jade current]

That was peak

[cunning plume]

Yeh, you know it doesn’t work right?

[lyric escarp]

but it does

[cunning plume]

Tests not required lol

[daring wasp]

the JavaOrJavaScript language by claude was peak

[quiet saddle]

the point wasn't really to produce something useable

[quiet saddle]

that was brilliant

[jade current]

Matt did something similar too, I think

[quiet saddle]

I give myself a lot of credit though for the design decisions on JSoJ

[lyric escarp]

one time I timed my usage so perfectly it reset at the moment I hit full, retried once and I was back to 0%

by pure coincidence

[bleak pond]

what timing

[lyric escarp]

I had claude and codex do some flag hunting in a competition while I find another flag alongside.

[daring wasp]

Ive never really run out of Claude Usage even for the free plan even since i dont rely on it too much

[lyric escarp]

codex usage hit 100%, retried once, and it went back to 0%

[quiet saddle]

for the python lib I actually told it not to do any testing cuz I knew it would have no chance of completing if it tried to test

[bleak pond]

nowadays claude consumes more token if your prompt is big

[daring wasp]

i wanna use codex but id need to use vscode instead of code oss for that

[lyric escarp]

that is literally how tokens works

[lyric escarp]

you dont have to

you can modify the marketplace url at a risk of microslop possibly suing you

[daring wasp]

I should've frsmed it this way

codex doesnt work on native termux (where i use code oss)
id have to use proot to simulate glibc to run vscode and codex

although i havent tried the extension version, the cli just wouldn't load up

[lyric escarp]

makes sense, most things wont work without glibc except those that use musl

[daring wasp]

android uses Bionic not musl

so basically i can't run anything closed source without proot sim

[lyric escarp]

yeah, that's what I said, no?

[pine galleon]

Did anyone of you sell a bot and how much money you take

[daring wasp]

Bionic ≠ musl

[lyric escarp]

I did not realize the existence of bionic so I only knew musl and glibc. My bad then.

you should try ubuntu touch

[daring wasp]

its not common to know about it
Bionic is a specific lightweight one only used in android

[pine galleon]

So it was not used in other

[daring wasp]

open source stuff usually you can get to work
because you can compile/tweak it for android

[dense bone]

https://discord.com/channels/613425648685547541/1505074485177614436
sorry, i have trouble

[lyric escarp]

Don't crosspost it here

hi inbestigator

[wicked ravine]

you can use the push api to implement server events without a continuous connection

[dense bone]

sorry, i japanese , i don`t know

[pine galleon]

You are japines

[wicked ravine]

👋

[pine galleon]

Did you live in japan

[dense bone]

watashi ha nihon ni sunde imasu

[pine galleon]

Bro what are you typing

[quiet saddle]

Japanese. This is an English only server though @dense bone

[daring wasp]

#rules Only english is allowed here, you can use a translator to talk in english

[pine galleon]

Can you use translator to under stand@daring wasp

[daring wasp]

They said "I live in Japan" that's it

[pine galleon]

Ok

I'm learning language but I'm confused what I learn japines or korean

[daring wasp]

That's offtopic for this server

for general talks you should go in https://discord.gg/discord-townhall

[pine galleon]

@daring wasp what app did you use to code and make a bot and like use it to make a working bot

[daring wasp]

I use VSCode (GUI) for long sessions / fresh-editor (Terminal Based) for quick edits

[pine galleon]

So which is batter for big project and is it free

[daring wasp]

Both are free

VSCode is pretty beginner friendly

[pine galleon]

Ok thanks

😁👍

Did you know which is best coding language to make a bot and big project python or js

[jade current]

It's just a preference

Pick which programming language you want to use

[daring wasp]

Whatever you're more comfortable with

[jade current]

There is no "best"

[lyric escarp]

same.

[daring wasp]

do you know how to get autocomplete as i type rather than ctrl + space?

[pine galleon]

Like I'm learning so which I learn

[daring wasp]

that's a big reason I'm still using vscode

[lyric escarp]

oh wait, as you type

[daring wasp]

Take a look at both
Python is more english-y like you can literally read it
JS is used in a lot of places like webdev

[daring wasp]

Ohh I hadn't seen this

[pine galleon]

So like js Is more good for development so I will learn J's and it is also used to make bot righy

Soory right not righy

[jade current]

Python is also the same. It's really up to you which language you're gonna learn and use

[daring wasp]

Python is also used a lot

[jade current]

You're also not limited to just JavaScript and Python

[daring wasp]

there's other languages too but I feel like a high level language like python, js is better to start

[pine galleon]

Yeah that's right

So I will learn J's than python because J's is like use more in web dev

[neat olive]

js isn't better for development

[pine galleon]

Why

So which is batter

[neat olive]

neither

[daring wasp]

neither

both have their uses and are good for their own points

[lethal pier]

there is no "better"

[pine galleon]

Bro like which is batter for web dev

[rocky dagger]

Hello I want to ask for an anti nuke bot

[quiet saddle]

no

[lethal pier]

both can do bots, both can do web, both can do backend

[neat olive]

js is used a lot in webdev for running client-side js, and it also has some popular backend frameworks, but so does e.g. python or c#

[rocky dagger]

Uhh i mean I want an antinuke bot to protect my server

[quiet saddle]

we can't help with that

[rocky dagger]

Why

[toxic violet]

https://tenor.com/view/mexico-flag-gif-north-america-gif-27452681

[quiet saddle]

"anti-nuke bots" are inherently dangerous; you're giving some random person admin privileges in order to provide the same "protection" for your server that you can have by simply not handing out high level permissions to people who aren't trusted or don't need it. if an anti-nuke bot actually did what it claimed to do, the first thing it would do would be to nuke itself.

[neat olive]

but isn't that what it's supposed to stop?

[quiet saddle]

using "nuke" loosely here

it's true that you've uncovered a bit of a paradox though @neat olive. if an anti-nuke bot is also a nuke bot, can the bot faithfully execute either of its roles without compromising the integrity of its identity?

[daring wasp]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[versed creek]

They can see logs bro

[jade current]

💀

[daring wasp]

Deleting message doesn't make you safe

[neat olive]

soviet air defense

[daring wasp]

😭?

[dark mortar]

Hu

[daring wasp]

hi samtino

[patent carbon]

Thx mods!
-# I didn't see what it was

[daring wasp]

server adv

[patent carbon]

Ahh

[versed creek]

Same Timor

[neat olive]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-35_anti-ballistic_missile_system for context (they really wanted to nuke the nukes mid-air)

(to be fair it's not an exact analogy since the idea was to nuke other nukes instead of yourself, but still)

[quiet saddle]

This adds complexity though, because in our scenario we are the soviets, a nuke is heading our way which was fired by the soviets, we have a nuke which we can use to nuke the nuke midair, and we are the soviets

[rapid jolt]

I am using railway to keep my bot online but it says that i have 17 days left(Until my free subscription expires). Do you guys know any free bot running website?

[neat olive]

[quiet saddle]

how should we act, if we are to act in the interests of the soviets?

[neat olive]

some hyperscalers have free tiers

[solid wind]

follow a guide to setup a free tier vm on any of the big cloud providers e.g. aws, azure, gcp, they each give you a year for free

[neat olive]

I think by historical standards... we break

maybe the paradox solves itself

[quiet saddle]

perhaps you're right. we CANNOT exist in both states simultaneously, therefore we MUST not

[rapid jolt]

I was going to check the website but i saw the comment

[verbal wraith]

I'm not even surprised at this point

[untold nova]

@misty cipher

[solid wind]

seems like they arent really in a position to be making educational content yet 😂

[upbeat anchor]

Failed to send DM to user: DiscordAPIError[40003]: You are opening direct messages too fast.
Failed to send DM to user: SyntaxError: Unexpected end of JSON input
@modest geyser it must have been a spammy night to get these errors

[glass silo]

Poor JSON

Didn't see that ending coming

[upbeat anchor]

ive gotten it way too many times i can't tell whats going on

like am i having too many paralell connections to discord and multipliexing gets confused?

or does it somehow end before actually receiving the last few chars

[glass silo]

[dark moth]

Please open a github issue about that. The error may be intentional but it shouldn't give you invalid json at least

[upbeat anchor]

oh they are 2 diff events

[floral rapids]

don't you have a 100ms queue

let me check if i have it uploaded on github sec

[upbeat anchor]

but im not sure if its due to me aborting it after 2.5s and maybe Bun just cahceling the reading of body or whats wrong

there are alot of possible things and i don't have enough of a repo or often enough to be able to definitely blame discord

[floral rapids]

something like this https://pastes.dev/lJ46KPPLlY

should do the trick most of the time

[upbeat anchor]

so my bot works indeed in a queue from redis list that WS pushes to, but not sure what has to do with this

the http sending is done by @discordjs/rest

[floral rapids]

queue the HTTP sending to prevent excessive dms in a short span

[upbeat anchor]

oh also docker for all we know could be funny - there are many layers of proxy to discord themself

[upbeat anchor]

oh, uh i only try for 2.5sec coz i dont want to delay the dm for too long

like once they are removed from server, there is a low chance i can dm again

[floral rapids]

i use the custom made queue for most stuff (i have it set as 100, not 1000)

i only try for 2.5sec
🤔 so if fail you try again and again? or am i misunderstanding something

[upbeat anchor]

i do cache the route for getting channel id incase i ban people in 2+ servers quickly

[upbeat anchor]

like i have an AbortSignal.timeout

which means that the fetch query will abort after that time if its not completed

[floral rapids]

aha, not what i mean

the design choice of mine is as following:

1. user does something, needs to be kicked (softbanned + message)
2. bot adds to queue that this exact user needs to be kicked
3. the queue pretty much runs one by one, prevents all of them to be ran at once
4. if message fails i abort, but still kick

does it make more sense now

[upbeat anchor]

i mean isnt that similar to what i do?

like whats a few ms differance of sending the event going to do

its prob a hourly ratelimit or smth

[floral rapids]

prevent spamming discord's api most likely

[floral rapids]

🤔 interesting

[upbeat anchor]

or at very least one that isn't counting paralell connections

[quiet saddle]

it's a token bucket algorithm, the frequency of the requests is irrelevant, it's about the number of requests made during a sliding time window

[upbeat anchor]

ya

[floral rapids]

i mean the way i handle it is, in a way, so that the number of requests made during a sliding time window decreases

e.g send message at 0, kick at 100, inform in specific channel at 200

[upbeat anchor]

I really doubt this would have any impact

[floral rapids]

i don't see any other solution for this to prevent exhausting the requests in that number of sliding time window

[upbeat anchor]

Btw how many events are you sending?

[quiet saddle]

if you receive a rate limit warning you should just throw the request into your queue and have it retry the next req in the queue (or batch if API supports for that type of action), if successful, continue to next in queue, otherwise try again when the rate limit advises you to

[upbeat anchor]

Ya d.js already does this for me

[quiet saddle]

the queue should be allowed to accumulate as many backlogged requests as you can handle, and process them when possible, even if it's minutes or hours later

[floral rapids]

im also on djs with the queue included to prevent heavy amount of logs being sent at once/prevent any unfunny/unsafe non-queued (bypassed?) processes if there is one by mistake

[floral rapids]

hmm

[quiet saddle]

(in this specific scenario btw; there are other scenarios, not really bot related, where you want to avoid queueing requests)

[upbeat anchor]

Realistically in my case (the reason for max time spend for dm msg), its indeed only ban that i want to get this level of queueing if needed.... but i dont know if ive hit much ratelimits there

[floral rapids]

i don't think i see any scenarios where you'd want to avoid queuing requests to prevent 3rd party/your own servers from getting exhausted

[quiet saddle]

DM is the only one you're gona have trouble with

[floral rapids]

isn't DM considered as 2 requests sent in same time:

1. opening dm
2. sending msg

[quiet saddle]

wdym. there is no "open dm". it's just sending the message

[floral rapids]

huh

[quiet saddle]

I could be mistaken but afaik it's just a normal message send?

[upbeat anchor]

you need to get dm channel first

[quiet saddle]

wouldn't you have that cached

[upbeat anchor]

if its not cached

[floral rapids]

if it's first time, it's not cached

[quiet saddle]

oh ig not for this scenario

[upbeat anchor]

ie youve never dmd them before

i dont like how that event doesn't check if you can even dm them to begin with - like you can get a channel with anyone... but its only the send msg that will error if you dont have mutual

[floral rapids]

yeah pretty much each time he messages someone it's 2 requests being done

[quiet saddle]

anyways probably irrelevant as i doubt those are in the same token bucket to begin with

[upbeat anchor]

ya

i dont think that one has a very low ratelimit

[quiet saddle]

i mean everything is part of the global bucket, but you're not gonna hit that limit

[floral rapids]

i'm pretty much preventing myself from reaching both the global bucket limit and any weird limits that may suddenly show up but i'll consider what was previously mentioned

[upbeat anchor]

Failed to softban user: DiscordAPIError[10026]: Unknown Ban
im impressed by some servers tho... as either this is due to ratelimiting or a bot insta unbans before i can (?)

[quiet saddle]

the delayed requests strategy here doesn't really do anything though - because in the mean time you could just be receiving more events that require requests

[floral rapids]

i've honestly yet to have any issues with it, rather, it's been much more helpful, though my bot is mostly logging (messages, guild members, user profile, etc), it does have softban ability (message, ban, unban)

[quiet saddle]

i'm not saying it would cause issues, just that it has zero effect

[upbeat anchor]

so guys if i have a seperate script for proxying discord reqs for ratelimit (ie so i can have many procs of event handler)... should i transfer an abort or still send the request? like for context any update to code and such would restart the bot and thus nullifying in process stuff potentionally

[upbeat anchor]

yeah i agree

[serene wind]

why is this happening

when i ask copilot

[frank plinth]

[floral rapids]

mk, oh well, i mean i can still keep it for the log system i've done, but seems like i need to find solution for others (a bit of an example, for context, is that it sends attachments or long messages in separate messages, for easy reading + follow discord limitations)

thanks for letting me know of the issue(s)

[quiet saddle]

the lifetime of an abort signal should only be as long as the request takes to resolve (or timeout)... if you get a 429, the abort signal should be canceled just as you would with a 200 response. then you create a brand new copy of the request and pass it off to your queue, along with some kind of indicator to the queue about which bucket it's in, when the request should be retried, etc. then whatever part of your system is managing the queue makes sure queued requests get sent out in the order they came in as rate limit timeouts expire

[upbeat anchor]

why not upload the attachment in the cv2 msg?

[upbeat anchor]

oh ofc the proxy would handle retries, but i meant if the internal connection dies should i cancel the actual discord one?

as some stuff may have later dependents for all i know

the best idea is to try and let docker keep it for as alive as needed (not accepting any new events) and idealy by then not have any stuff left

[quiet saddle]

wdym by internal connection? between your main program and the proxy?

[upbeat anchor]

ya

[quiet saddle]

does the proxy ever receive responses, or are those directed back to the main program

ig my question is: the proxy receives data from your main process, but does it ever send data to your main process

[upbeat anchor]

yeah it would retry as much as it needs (idealy 0 coz good ratelimiting data) and then send data back

i mean logically i dont actualy often read the response, but sometimes i do

<@&1050493473033289778>

[quiet saddle]

hmm... that design feels shaky to me. if the proxy is a separate service, it should be capable of handling the request and response all the way through - no backwards communication

[upbeat anchor]

wdym? you are saying it should never get the actual response?

and for those i send directly?

[quiet saddle]

if it does, it should be able to handle it

i.e. sending a request to your proxy should mean "this is no longer my concern"

[upbeat anchor]

like the whole point is to avoid saving thate ratelimit data twice and potentionally having outdated info

i could try to make my own cursed setup and store that data in redis i guess, but i dont wana fork any ratelimiters

[upbeat anchor]

honestly rarely the case as i do at least check the status (ie if error code then i can send msg that i failed to do action)

[quiet saddle]

i would question the two-system setup first. it's unlikely that you actually need it

[dark moth]

up to a point, be careful you don't get into a situation where the proxy infinitely waits on timeouts of 24h+, keeping them queued up even after the requester gave up on a timeout. or it does retries, keeps getting 429s and then the downstream app their own retry logic kicks in to amplify the mess once the proxy finally gives up

[upbeat anchor]

i havent needed it yet, but im just thinking about it in future you know (like how do people handle clusters with ratelimits - or when restart pesist data to avoid making discord mad)

i do get for clusters its not needed as generally (not my setup tho) you'd be using sharding properly where each handler is for a specific range of servers

[quiet saddle]

oh for sure. there must always be an upper limit on the number of retries, and it's context-based too - for some cases, you'd wanna keep it very short. if a request is going to sit in the queue for awhile it should be side-effect free in relation to your whole system, basically

[upbeat anchor]

my setup is diff as i condence all shards into one event handler queue as i dont have really any shared state/cache i need

[waxen trellis]

any wone plss help me

[solid wind]

retries and awaiting the rate limit sounds convenient in theory but i dunno if id want to be dealing with the potential for requests to take unexpectedly long vs basic error handling

[upbeat anchor]

i wonder how many times d.js does it

if its unlimited or still has a cap

[jade current]

With what

[solid wind]

anyone got any idea if ip bans are a concern when only dealing with websocket connections, where no api requests are being sent from the same

e.g. if you have a bunch of bots all connecting off the same ip, is there a limit where discord decides nope

[neat olive]

probably not a major concern at least, I don't know if it's possible to get ip banned like that

[lusty cargo]

How to get the 🌱 badge

[verbal wraith]

You can't

[lusty cargo]

Not anymore?

[verbal wraith]

Nope, you had to play april fools game on discord

[solid wind]

i dont know if it being a thing, but i feel like it wouldnt be surprising if there was some sort of limit before things get flagged

[lusty cargo]

Ic ic

[solid wind]

e.g. if 1000 bots are all connecting from the same ip, surely discord would think that looks a bit sus

[neat olive]

I don't know if any of the events you need to send for websocket connections count against any relevant limits but if not there wouldn't be any limit except how many connections you can actually open at once from a single ip (presumably you need a port per connection)

[upbeat anchor]

i havent heard of any shared hosts having issues there, but they'd first get issues because of the get bot info would error

(ie to see how many shards and concurrent)

[solid wind]

even that, you'd be doing rarely, definitely not to the frequency that would cause too many requests from the single IP

[upbeat anchor]

yeah

but also why are you putting lota bots on same ip?

[modest geyser]

The only one that would is /gateway/bot

[solid wind]

protocol translating proxy

[upbeat anchor]

like the dev tos is pretty clear against the idea of hosting other peoples bots thing (if thats what you are doing)

[solid wind]

Mmm the wording is intentionally vague

is there precedence for that being the stance?

[upbeat anchor]

considering mee6 is alive and still offers it

but i heard they gave us per server bot profiles to minimise the reason to want

[solid wind]

mee6 being able to do something doesnt hold much weight tbf

[upbeat anchor]

yeah

[solid wind]

what was the end result with all the botghost stuff?

does it still exist

[upbeat anchor]

tbh i have a few times wonderd if i can make a service which translates gateway events into http events so people can do serverless to their hearts content

[solid wind]

exactly the thing im wondering. that or reversing the client/server ownership to properly support ws hibernation on cf workers DOs

[upbeat anchor]

ya

[upbeat anchor]

issue here is the events can get very spammy so like even if you can do serverless its prob a bad idea

[solid wind]

the thing with the IP bans was that it could support a free shared IP for some number of bots, and if there is any risk there, offer paid dedis to get around that risk

[floral rapids]

that wasn't a thing before, and, I kinda like it this way too

[upbeat anchor]

ws hibernation
you'd not last long because like every x infinitival you have to send heartbeat

[solid wind]

my intention is to do all the lifecycle stuff, just forward the meaningful events

[upbeat anchor]

and also you get alot more events than you care about so just waisting cpu time

[upbeat anchor]

ah

at very least you need to get them to select the events they want as otherwise itll get messy

[solid wind]

would abstract away sharding entirely, you'd just get events through your single point you can do all the easy load balancing on to your hearts content

[vast cradle]

I need someone who knows how to code a WhatsApp bot im having some problems

[upbeat anchor]

tbh any bot using this (and not their own system) prob doesn't need to deal with sharding

2.5k servers is alot

[solid wind]

i dont see any reason that'd necessarily be the case

[upbeat anchor]

well when you get to a state of geting heeps of events, the serverless cost would get high to make you question why

[floral rapids]

I'd honestly do anything to make it so I don't have to shard my bots ngl, but to be honest, that's the easiest part of all

[solid wind]

if it were trivial to make a (for all intents and purposes) infinitely scalable bot, that sounds like a pretty good value proposition, like any other serverless platform

[upbeat anchor]

my bot is effectively serverless idea (ws -> redis queue -> event handler)

[floral rapids]

clustering is what I'd struggle (multiple nodes) as I do not have a proper way to handle clustering

[upbeat anchor]

sooo basically you dont want a big bot

[trim geode]

imagine being serverless I could never

-# except if you look at me pushing serverless and writing an entire guide on it

[solid wind]

you could then switch over to containers and continue operating the exact same way

[floral rapids]

yes/no
there's a lot of pain in this

[upbeat anchor]

i use docker

the main benifit of my strat is i can restart my event handler often and not have to restart/resume the actual ws itself

as that stays steady, and then i use docker swarm like one could with http server and always having at least one alive at the moment

[trim geode]

yup, that's the beauty of decoupling

[upbeat anchor]

honestly i think only few bots can do that because most actually rely on caching

and when you cache, may as well just keep everything on same cluster

oh also whats a normal events per sec for a 9k server bot would you say

[floral rapids]

sharding between 2 nodes for me rn is a bit of a impossible to do, I don't know when the bot is supposed to start/what happened to it/etc
and having to handle cluster rn would mean I need to think of an effective system to easily broadcast data if necessary to another cluster (keyword: if; it doesn't mean I will, I don't think there is any day I will ever do that too)

[solid wind]

sharding is part of what makes clustering not so trivial for a bot, but if you only needed to load balance across webhooks, a message queue, etc, then you can do LB like any other service would

[upbeat anchor]

[solid wind]

basically the same idea, just that i think itd be cool to make it a managed multi-tenant service

[upbeat anchor]

ya

ive had to turn it into more fancy than i initially thought tho lol

[solid wind]

above all else, its an excuse for me to have fun with durable functions and getting in the weeds of some cloud architecture stuff 😂

[upbeat anchor]

-# arent you meant to be a aws fan

[solid wind]

i use aws stuff at work but azure stuff at home

[floral rapids]

is it me or are you using redis as an alternative to "websocket", in a way you're doing as if:
discord -> main service -> redis -> external service (handles events only) OR external service (handles commands only)

this does seem a bit like it (though, not fully correct)

[trim geode]

More like a message broker

[upbeat anchor]

if just commands only, just set http interaction url at that point

[floral rapids]

aren't websockets more efficient at being a message broker than redis or is that not true

[trim geode]

100% situational

and not always

[floral rapids]

I mean yes, fair enough, but I couldn't give another example currently lol

[floral rapids]

would it be possible to know WHEN to and WHEN NOT to?

[trim geode]

message brokers can provide reliability that websockets can't without extra work

[trim geode]

weirdly, it's one of those things that you'll know when you need it

there's definitely a "checklist" you could use...but it's just more instinct too...and architecture

[upbeat anchor]

ok so ill explain my goals

1. every time i update code, i don't want to have to deal with pain of downtime - whether that is directly needing to re-identify or still connect you still have some time where nothing can be processed
2. means i can filter my events before hitting event handler
3. they can scale interdependently depending on what uses more resources (tbh i thought WS was cheaper than event handler)

[floral rapids]

I mean I usually only rely on either socket or websocket

[upbeat anchor]

also it means that if event handler crashes, then i still have a queue of events to replay through on restart

(this was before i knew you could just save url and reconnect)

[upbeat anchor]

honestly i prob wouldnt have bothered as much if i knew this single fact

[floral rapids]

wdym by filter your events before hitting event handler

[upbeat anchor]

also somehow there is a substantial tls or something overhead that i dont know where - as its not fully json parse as when i proxied everything the cpu usage on WS was way higher

[floral rapids]

I see

[upbeat anchor]

like i dont care about MESSAGE_UPDATE or messages from a diff channel (to what i subscribed to) for instance

so why bother sending smth that'll just get dropped

[floral rapids]

yeah websocket is a bit of ? when it comes to CPU usage, though redis could end up worst if not handled properly

[upbeat anchor]

redis is just a lpush and blpop (resolve when there is smth to pop - and run this in a loop)

[floral rapids]

uhh, doesn't that also work the same way in websocket

[waxen chasm]

Am not from china

[upbeat anchor]

im just saying how im doing it (i store the channel ids i care about in redis and check before adding the event to the queue)

[solid wind]

the important distinction is that by abstracting away the websocket, you're free to use whatever tool best suits your priorities

rather than being locked into one architecture you can do things however makes most sense. and compute efficiency is only one metric, that often is not actually that important, especially when weighing up other priorities

[tiny bay]

H

[brisk needle]

robo's back online

[solid wind]

if that was the only thing that mattered we'd all be writing bots in C

[floral rapids]

I mean yeah but it's nice to know the advantages & disadvantages of using websocket vs redis as a message broker

[upbeat anchor]

you say this, but im literally making my ws thing in rust for better cpu usage (3% -> 0.5% and doing more)

3% local is 10% on vps

the main benifits are due to not fully parsing the json which is faster and has less GC cleanup requirements

[brisk needle]

why am i always that one unnoticed guy

[solid wind]

i havent personally looked at using redis in that way but there are countless other approaches

[upbeat anchor]

yeah

i just used redis as it seemed like an easy way to load balance events

[solid wind]

one downside is you've still got a bottleneck, you've just shifted it off to your redis instance 😂

[upbeat anchor]

haha true

i could make the redis myself tbh

just put direct socket connections and then choose randomly which to send events to

[neat olive]

to me this seems like a lot of effort to replace something that ought to just work fine already

[upbeat anchor]

idk this is fun to me to make it peak perf

idk about leymbda, but its intresting to work out what parts can be done to improve effeciency and what gains/downsides it yeilds

[neat olive]

in terms of performance this seems like it'd always just be worse than just sticking with websockets, no?

[upbeat anchor]

at my current rate of event spammsing, ill eventually need to do multicore or try and reduce the cpu buttlenecks earlier on

[neat olive]

all the possible benefits would be at the cost of perf in my eyes

[upbeat anchor]

i cant remember whats being argued here

but my method of ws and event handler being seperate has worked very well for me

[solid wind]

for me its about the convenience and flexibility of being able to host in ways not otherwise possible

[upbeat anchor]

ya

[solid wind]

if you wanna chuck all your bot code in a lambda and call it a day then you can

[upbeat anchor]

the idea behind https://pylon.bot is nice, so if you can easily just make a simple bot without needing an actual server its nice

[trim geode]

pylon...has its own issues

including the fact that you needed to use their libraries

from what I recall

[upbeat anchor]

i said the idea behind it 😭

[trim geode]

I know I was just saying :P

-# at some point I'll build a host fr fr

[solid wind]

looks abandoned too, which would be the biggest flaw of any sort of service like this

[upbeat anchor]

@solid wind's solution is just proxying the events and letting you handle however you see fit

but it does miss out on cache

[neat olive]

you'd still need an actual server proxying everything

[upbeat anchor]

unless you'll let you subscribe to added data with cache

[trim geode]

cache can also be in redis

[upbeat anchor]

thats what they are considering making 😭

[solid wind]

you'd be implementing caching on the bot's end not the proxy

[neat olive]

it just seems like there's just more and more complexity rather than an actually simplified workflow

[upbeat anchor]

but one can't simply cache well in serverless

[neat olive]

but maybe I'm just not seeing the vision

[solid wind]

redis 😂

[upbeat anchor]

like unless you want to get a bunch of waisted member update events to handle and send only to cache

honestly the serverless pricing on some things are insaine compared to what you can get on basic vps

[winged swan]

guys init_arena or arena_init

[neat olive]

(if using serverless we'd also now be paying for both regular hosting and all the serverless use)

[neat olive]

[jade current]

Former

Why not arena

[winged swan]

funciton name

[solid wind]

my idea is to make it a managed service rather than a self hosted one, which has its own pros and cons too, but at least means you arent managing your own VMs

[upbeat anchor]

new Arena

[winged swan]

huhhh

[upbeat anchor]

ya, i gathered this :)

and honestly its a way better idea than actually running peoplz code

[solid wind]

all you'd be doing is setting up an extra third party service then pointing it to your lambdas or whatever, so all you're managing in terms of infra is your lambda

[upbeat anchor]

id honestly ask discord support on if they'd condone this as the dev tos does kinda allude to it being a bad idea

[solid wind]

they dont answer policy questions like that

[upbeat anchor]

like if you store encrypted and handle ratelimits... you in theory aren't actually consuming any of their payloads yourself

[upbeat anchor]

wait really? i that everyone always says ask support for those cases here

[winged swan]

my naming convention is so inconsistent I just realised

Arena *
init_arena()

void
*arena_malloc(Arena *arena, const size_t size)

[jade current]

arena_init

[winged swan]

oke then

[solid wind]

i did some number crunching a while ago and figured that it'd be feasible to do a model like $1 per shard, and while thats certainly more at greater scale, it is predictive billing, and ends up cheaper for most when compared to non-free-tiers

[upbeat anchor]

thats alot of dolla just for being a proxy

like in theory an actual shard itself shouldnt really cost you that much

now if you can cache and send other data with it, that changes things (but ram can get really high so prob not a good idea)

[solid wind]

way i see it is thats $1 and effectively free serverless vs a few bucks on a vm

[turbid oxide]

what

omg

what speaking turks

[upbeat anchor]

at least have $1 give many shards

and have free teir with max events proxied per mo as trial

[solid wind]

not to get too into the weeds of businessy things as opposed to the actual technical viability, but that would also afford a single shard free tier

[winged swan]

i'm not using the ternary operator enough man

[solid wind]

dont go crazy with them, you're better off underusing than overusing

[winged swan]

what are the downsides?

[solid wind]

can be messy and unreadable

[winged swan]

fair

[upbeat anchor]

Ternary good

If its simple one line code

[solid wind]

i almost always split them across 3 for readability

var foo = condition
    ? bar
    : baz

[winged swan]

interesting

[silver carbon]

Y.

[winged swan]

in python we do something similar i think

[verbal wraith]

Looks pretty clear

[silver carbon]

How should this situation be resolved?

[verbal wraith]

!support

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[jade current]

I want to try making my own Discord API wrapper in Python ._.

[silver carbon]

How should this situation be resolved?

[jade current]

Read what the bot said above

[silver carbon]

OK

[silver carbon]

Does anyone know how to unblock this?

[lyric escarp]

by reading what the bot says and follow

this server cannot help you.

[silver carbon]

I couldn't figure it out on the Discord website either; here's what you need to do

For some reason, a few accounts are experiencing this issue.

[lyric escarp]

but you can't do anything at all here. Are you using translator by any chance?

we're just people

not developers that work on discord, just normal people

[silver carbon]

I applied for two new accounts, and both have this issue. I'm not sure what's going on.

[frigid harbor]

morning guys

[lyric escarp]

please.. just stop.. we can't help you even if you continue to ask here.

[silver carbon]

Does anyone know the staff's contact information?

[lyric escarp]

!support

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[lyric escarp]

this ^^^^^

[winged swan]

Arena *
arena_init()
{
    Arena *arena = malloc(sizeof(Arena));
    if (arena == NULL) {
        return NULL;
    }
    arena->size = 0;

    for (int i = 0; i < DEFAULT_ARENA_SIZE; i++) {
        if (pool_init(arena) < 0) {
            arena_destroy(arena);
        }
    }

    return NULL;
}
``` so dumb

[modest geyser]

Why is there a return type if the only thing that can be returned is NULL

[winged swan]

exactly

i was wondering why it wasn't working

until I checked that function... so yeah

[ember pollen]

an iq

[ember pollen]

if it gonna return null everytime why all of this

fr lmao

[viscid steppe]

Is this a serious question or is this a funsy statement

[pale hull]

Is it clearing a space in memory? Not sure what the point of that would be tho

[lethal pier]

I just created my first python discord bot using discord.py coming from c# this wasn't to difficult

[jade current]

Python is cool

[lethal pier]

I have it running on my Ubuntu laptop server

[jade current]

I'm still newbie at it

[lethal pier]

so am I

was going to try js but I really don't like js so I choose python

[jade current]

Do you think you can teach me Python?

[lethal pier]

no because I dont know python

lol

[jade current]

That sucks

[ember pollen]

no body likes js

[viscid steppe]

Do you know how to exit the python repl

[jade current]

Anyways, iconic how these lines of codes worked on first try

[lethal pier]

import os
import discord
from dotenv import load_dotenv

load_dotenv()

intents = discord.Intents.default()
intents.message_content = True

class GamedayClient(discord.Client):

    async def on_ready(self):
        print(f'Logged in as {self.user}')

    async def on_message(self, message):
        if message.author == self.user:
            return

        if message.content.startswith('!hello'):
            await message.channel.send('Hello!')

client = GamedayClient(intents=intents)
client.run(os.getenv('TOKEN'))```

[jade current]

exit (or exit() on 3.12 below)

[lethal pier]

is my bot

[viscid steppe]

Why not using the commands extension

[ember pollen]

💯

[daring wasp]

very hd

[ember pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/high-quality-high-resolution-4k-144p-ultra-hd-gif-21054057

[lethal pier]

because I havent gotten that far yet

[pale hull]

Why using prefix command :/

[daring wasp]

I wanted the blurry ultra hd but it lasted like 2 milliseconds

[ember pollen]

lol

[jade current]

It's the file/code preview, not the actual codebase

[daring wasp]

I know that :p

[ember pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-soulja-boy-4k-gif-27284854

[fervent zenith]

@olive minnow

[lethal pier]

this was to get something running to make sure I could connect to the discord gateway

[daring wasp]

ext.commands is basically needed if you're using prefix :p

[jade current]

Nuh-uh >:(

[fervent zenith]

@olive minnow 👀👀👀👀

[daring wasp]

(or if you wanna use cogs)

which are really nice

[pale hull]

Cogs are a pain

[jade current]

Cogs are wheels

[haughty edge]

true

[jade current]

I've never had problems with cogs

[daring wasp]

hey i like cogs

[haughty edge]

cogs...i still don't know that...

[daring wasp]

they're nice

[pale hull]

Extensions are nice. But I have only used a cogs feature like twice

[daring wasp]

eh?
in dpy aren't they the same..?

[winged swan]

no

[jade current]

Extensions are cool too, 'cause they extend

[daring wasp]

what's the diff

[winged swan]

most of the time they are used together tho

Cog is just like any class

[queen lake]

Greetings

[daring wasp]

oh right like load_extension can be used for other stuff too right?

[jade current]

Extensions are modules

[pale hull]

Extension is the file with the setup function. It is what is loaded and reloaded. Cogs are the class that just has extra stuff like an error handler for all commands in a cog

[winged swan]

i believe so

[daring wasp]

yeah I get it now

I always jsut used them together

[viscid steppe]

Because it will organize your help commands (prefix jumpscare)

[pale hull]

In my newer bots I just don't use cogs.
https://github.com/Icebluewolf/Meowtivation/blob/main/src%2Fcommands%2Fview_goals.py#L112-L115

[jade current]

Ooo meowtivation

[pale hull]

Cogs also auto add all commands and listeners within the cog. But I actually prefer doing it manually

[daring wasp]

pycord:3

i go eat now my hands tired from codin

[pale hull]

Same concepts just different paths for where stuff is at

[sly crest]

I have a question. My server was breached for two days and they said it would be back online on the 16th, but it's still not online. Will it be online tonight?

[dark moth]

reply to your support ticket instead, discord does not have or do live chat support

[sly crest]

I just asked a question, I didn't say you solved my problem.

[dark moth]

it's an off topic question nobody here can even try to answer

[sly crest]

Will it only open tonight?

[dark moth]

nobody has any way of knowing

[sly crest]

The only question is yes or no?

[dark moth]

we are not involved

only discord support can answer that, and they are not here

[sly crest]

thank you again

[normal flax]

Hello, could you tell me how to add a photo to the voice channel like in the screenshot?

[dark moth]

!support

[strong seal]

This server is for help with Discord APIs, SDK and other various integrations. For general support, please contact Discord at https://dis.gd/contact, or send us a message on Twitter at @discord_support

[modest geyser]

AE have you seen the crypto scams with the msg content as OMGG

[dark moth]

not something i track

[verbal wraith]

Oh My, Good Game

[rough mural]

huh.. what am i supposed to do now

[dark moth]

ignore it, its a scam

[rough mural]

is this a scam copypasta

yea thought so

[radiant mantle]

does anyone know how to block some bots from interacting with my msgs because some bots do not have a user settings interface to do it

[jade current]

My lib be just: ```py
from disthon import Client

Client().start()

[dark moth]

what do you mean interfacing? you can just not use it

[jade current]

Hi, AE O/ How ya doin'

[verbal wraith]

:awesome:

[covert prawn]

Hello Guys Help me?

[jade current]

It requires the dev to configure their bot token as an environment variable, typically in a dotenv :D

[jade current]

With what?

[covert prawn]

Bot

[jade current]

Specifically

[covert prawn]

The discord

[whole nova]

hey everyone, is there a discord server for report any dc server?