dev-chat

[modest geyser]

11 scams in the last 3h

[tight mural]

i thought it would be more than 11

[modest geyser]

Also like 4 in the last 15 mins

[upbeat anchor]

maukkis, should i make a live updating site and smth where you can see every time a bot getts honeied?

[neat olive]

yeah modmail should not be considered official discord communication

[quiet saddle]

@balmy basin it's not really about one format being better or worse than the other. you should just use whichever format is used by the crypto lib you're using.

[modest geyser]

I have that for my bot except not public

[upbeat anchor]

w

[modest geyser]

Its literally same second data

[upbeat anchor]

well rn all i have is that image i sometimes make

[modest geyser]

MeowAtScam sends data to influxdb

[neat olive]

private grafana instance, eh?

[upbeat anchor]

but it could be cool to have a proper site with websocket

[modest geyser]

Yes!

[modest geyser]

These are just the servers my bot is in

[upbeat anchor]

watch some ai report a vinribility whereby you can see every time someone gets yeeted

[tight mural]

ok that makes more sense

[upbeat anchor]

maukkis has a bot thats only in a few big servers

i have a bot in more - but they target the same problem in a diff way

one is smart, the other is a landmine

[modest geyser]

The bot has big floofi ears

she hears scams from far away

[upbeat anchor]

discord when are u gonna accpet my intents applicationnnnn

[quiet saddle]

whatchu need intents for

[upbeat anchor]

everyone keeps on asking for me to forward the incriminating message

[quiet saddle]

NO

very bad idea

[upbeat anchor]

i had it working for one day (butttt #api-announcements message happend)

[upbeat anchor]

how so? im only going to use forward api sooo its not actually a msg by me

and wont be default enabled

[quiet saddle]

idk I would not be risking it if I were you

[upbeat anchor]

hmmm

[quiet saddle]

too many people getting falsely banned for this stuff

[upbeat anchor]

my bot has a higher chance of getting banned for "dm spam" tbh

[balmy basin]

[upbeat anchor]

and its not like i have seen much indication that discord actually is doing anything about these same 4 image spamz - like how can the basically same img be uploaded across heeps of channels at same time

[balmy basin]

Why riskyhm shouldn't risk tho

[quiet saddle]

I'm not really sure how Discord treats forwards vs. messages in terms of moderation but I absolutely would not send any content with scam images, and I would strongly discourage you from forwarding them

[upbeat anchor]

yeah

i mean which is worse: just text or also images?

like i dont know many mod bots who actually reupload the attachment

[neat olive]

I wouldn't upload any of this to discord

if you need to have this somewhere just keep it external

[granite meadow]

Hello,

Does anyone know how to obtain a specific username that has already been taken—one that I really want, even though it appears to be no longer in use? Is there any way to do that?

[upbeat anchor]

yeah no, im not going to deal with that can of worms

[quiet saddle]

I don't think any form of text would be an issue, since the scam isn't text? But the images, yes. Discord may not be doing much to address the problem as a whole, but at least a few friends-of-friends have had their accounts perm-banned while trying to combat the problem just like you are

[upbeat anchor]

damn

[modest geyser]

Damn they are just not stopping

Risky are you getting many events too

[upbeat anchor]

i do know early on they did abuse forwarding

[neat olive]

also if there are any delayed actions you'd be hit with those

just having these as external is easier and considerably less risky

assuming you need to store and access these for some reason

[quiet saddle]

no, not possible

[crude vortex]

How can I make money if I know how to make the best bots?

[polar viper]

not while following terms of use, no

[upbeat anchor]

nothing that i can see - but i dont have very good analytics for just recent

[polar viper]

the best bots?

[neat olive]

by monetizing those bots?

[polar viper]

^ lock some features behind premium

[crude vortex]

Yep

[modest geyser]

Grafana dashboard!!

[tight mural]

like what?

[modest geyser]

You should make one

[upbeat anchor]

see, thats effort

[balmy basin]

No it worth

[crude vortex]

I can do everything

[balmy basin]

I love grafana

[balmy basin]

Solve the problem of global warming

[tight mural]

name stuff cause saying everything doesnt really mean the best bots

[polar viper]

saying "everything" usually means the opposite

[modest geyser]

Why does the graph look like a cat is this because its MeowAtScam

[polar viper]

😽

[crude vortex]

First I do it, and if the client likes it, they pay.

[tight mural]

That is true

[polar viper]

that sounds like commissioning

[tight mural]

not close to how it works but sure

[crude vortex]

Do you have a server?

[compact patrol]

Define the best. In what ways is it the best?

[tight mural]

no i did but i didnt have ways to advritise

[crude vortex]

If you have a server, I'll do whatever you want, and if you like it, you pay me.

[patent carbon]

this is not a job board... dont advertise your services here

[polar viper]

is this another one of those "server designers"

[patent carbon]

server developers*

[polar viper]

ah, yes

[compact patrol]

Agreeing with Samtino here, still though, it sounds like a server designer than a bot developer

[jade current]

"Best" is subjective

[compact patrol]

That’s pretty much why I asked for his definition of “best”

[crude vortex]

I don't know how to make servers, only bots.

[compact patrol]

Alright this is not helping, I’ll just be direct, what is your best bot thus far?

[jade current]

Which isn't answered well lol. If that's what "best" means, then I guess everything is the "best"

[tired obsidian]

https://tenor.com/bo9MO.gif

[compact patrol]

Guess that’s true too 😅

[polar viper]

a question i like to ask to "developers" is "what languages do you know"

[tired obsidian]

Wow, missin' some pixels there lol

[crude vortex]

I don't know, I've done a lot.

[polar viper]

a lot

[tight mural]

how did you get the role thanks mason?

[polar viper]

a lot of bots that do everything

[compact patrol]

Python, JS and HTML is mine and slight CSS

[tired obsidian]

By doing what needed doing when it needed doing

[tight mural]

like?

[tired obsidian]

Doesn't matter, it's unavailable

[crude vortex]

Do you need one?

[polar viper]

neat
i ask that because they usually answer with "english"

sigh

[tired obsidian]

Offering to build a bot for people is against the server #rules , so let's not, ok?

[tight mural]

i know i just dont under stand why its made

[compact patrol]

No, this isn’t a job listing channel

[crude vortex]

Srry boss

[silver swan]

💀

[polar viper]

give him a break guys he's made "a lot" of bots that do "everything" /s

[jade current]

Would Mason get a "your welcome" role if they said "your welcome" to your "thanks mason"

[compact patrol]

What does “/s” mean?

[polar viper]

satire

[compact patrol]

Ohhh Kay

[polar viper]

wowza

[tight mural]

bruh

[compact patrol]

OH DAMN that was quick

[rough wharf]

do u guys if CONVERSATIONS_EXTRACTION_CONTROL is a new guild feature

[lethal pier]

the scammers getting shut down quick

but they keep trying

[compact patrol]

What deleted those scammer’s messages so quickly?

[modest geyser]

A bot

[tight mural]

thats why i love bots they can instatly delete those messages

[lethal pier]

devbot?

[modest geyser]

Yea

[lethal pier]

nice

I need to add that to my bot

[tired obsidian]

You'd have to ask Mason 🤷

[patent carbon]

dont ping mason

[tired obsidian]

Also, you're* welcome 😉

[tight mural]

who is mason and why is there a thanks mason role

[jade current]

Erm, yr'oue

[tired obsidian]

A dude and because

[compact patrol]

Yeah I know it was a bot, how did it know it was a scam message

[tight mural]

that doesnt anwser anything

[jade current]

Colour

[lethal pier]

hashing algo

[polar viper]

thank a mason in your community today!

[tired obsidian]

It actually answered both your questions so… 🤷

[tight mural]

Not at all

[modest geyser]

Pretty sure the bot here checks spam across channels

[tired obsidian]

You asked who is Mason. I said Mason is a dude.

You asked why there was a role. I said because.

Two questions, two answers

[jade current]

Where "thanks bitwisecat"

[tight mural]

I need real explainations

[compact patrol]

I mean I got my answer, it figured out it was a scam image via hashing

[polar viper]

i dont think it really matters

[tired obsidian]

That explanation is real. Not sure what else you want my guy

[modest geyser]

Thats one way to do it

But thats now how this servers bot does it

[tight mural]

https://klipy.com/gifs/bruh-meme-9--k01KRHN0R0P91N3GJQGS8TGT1T4

[compact patrol]

Oh! What are some others?

[neat olive]

me when I use a cryptographic hash to detect scam images

[modest geyser]

Lmao

[upbeat anchor]

when thx advaith role

[modest geyser]

Honeypot channels, analysing the image, spam between channels theres a lot of ways

[compact patrol]

Some scammer using a nightshade filter to bypass the scam filter lol

[neat olive]

cv2 is the best way but it's expensive

[upbeat anchor]

plz put comma's here

cv2.. what is this embed propganda

[jade current]

EmbedV2

[compact patrol]

Yeah those are true too

[upbeat anchor]

oh computor vision

[tired obsidian]

hashtag-cvXwhen

[lethal pier]

wtf is a honetpot channel?

[polar viper]

compromised account catcher

[upbeat anchor]

you msg in it -> ban/kick

its a landmine

avoidable by reading

[tight mural]

so cant they just make the scam check the server and any messages in it to detect that and prevent that

[lethal pier]

I dont get it

[neat olive]

yes

[upbeat anchor]

thats the other option

[tight mural]

if you type in a certain channel the bot detects it and bans you

[upbeat anchor]

maukkis's bot checks the image itself
my bot is honeypot land mine
this server does if its sent across channels

[tired obsidian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

[modest geyser]

#dev-chat message

[polar viper]

when a person has their account compromised, they sends those images or server invites in all channels they can message in, including the honeypot channel

and when you message in that channel, you get flung into the sun

[neat olive]

(some do, some don't)

[polar viper]

generally

[lethal pier]

but where are those channels?

[polar viper]

what

[upbeat anchor]

@modest geyser ok maybe it is high spam now... like i shouldnt be having this many still running at same time - i already filter the channel id to see if i want it before i proxy

[neat olive]

not in this guild

[tight mural]

God thats alot of logs

[modest geyser]

Yea i see a LOT of scam events

I can hear my servers fans fluctuate a lot

[upbeat anchor]

seriously, more than half my errors are just missing perms now

[upbeat anchor]

only "Cannot send messages to this user due to having no mutual guilds" kinda makes sense coz people may have dms disabled

[glass storm]

hi,everyone. I am new here.

[modest geyser]

She probably just doesnt like the temperature fluctuations in my room because i have windows open

[tight mural]

wait we are allowed to use extrenal bots in this server

[tight mural]

are you a bot

[pliant tartan]

i am a bot

[glass storm]

yes, I am a bot? who are you?

[pliant tartan]

beep boop beeep beep

[tight mural]

I am Deepseek-r1 im a reasoning model and thinking model how can i help you

[modest geyser]

Yes

Just dont abuse it or youll get bonked and dont test your bot here

[tight mural]

i think another person posted the mr beast scam

i just saw #api-chat and #social-sdk-dev-chat just have a message sent in it and i dont see a new message

[upbeat anchor]

prolly coz a spammer spammed in it and got instantly yeeted

[tight mural]

yeah

[modest geyser]

Last 3h have been wild

[versed creek]

I think my bot doesnt love me its been offline since 12hours

I dont feel productive

[modest geyser]

Then fix it

[versed creek]

Why am I awake at 4am

[versed creek]

I need some idea for a new thing to get into it before I restart the sv

[upbeat anchor]

im scared, i havent had this high ram usage before

[versed creek]

I forgot to try honeypot

Can honeypot kick rather than ban?

[tight mural]

yes i beleve you can set it to that

[modest geyser]

Mine is chilling at 1gb ram usage with the peak being 3.9gb dont even worry

[upbeat anchor]

lol

[versed creek]

Has everyone tried honeypot rather than me

[tight mural]

I have 4 AI's running and only using like 30% of my ram

[polar viper]

yeah

[versed creek]

How many pb ram do you got

[upbeat anchor]

i dont use kicks, i do bans or softban (ban and insta unban)... reasonaing being only way to effeciently clear users recent messages is to use ban endpoint

[versed creek]

-# I dont
Why do you sound like your bot speaking

[tight mural]

I have 16GB of ram

[jade current]

Rum

[tight mural]

another Mr Beast spammer

[versed creek]

I mean kind of yes but there are some people in my server sure tryna try how they will get banned i cant keep unbanning everyone so I wondered if this was like admin changeable would have been great

[versed creek]

I have 20gb
-# vram

[hardy arrow]

Well if it isnt Neitzsche. I always wanted to meet the man proclaiming God is dead

[versed creek]

Do you like my moustache

[hardy arrow]

Its extravagent

[versed creek]

:3

[hardy arrow]

So you guys are all developers?

New to the channel

[versed creek]

Devlarpers

[hardy arrow]

Haha gotcha

What are we runnin for setups? I got an I9 processor and 64gb ram

[upbeat anchor]

docker stop --time=10 honeypot_discord-ws
i think i stopped it before it oom'd

[hardy arrow]

pheww thats a serious setup. How did you manage to fill up 8 TiB!

[quiet saddle]

a lot of lossless anime

[hardy arrow]

😆

[upbeat anchor]

context being if i force it to restart myself it can cache the reconnect urls... but if it ooms then its just dead and needs to reconnect to all shards

[tight mural]

i belive i have full finished jarvis it has slash commands and custom prefix commands and all the AI's ive made should be finished

[versed creek]

How many shards it got😭

[mossy flare]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-okay-then-aight-gif-13383344606577294081

[upbeat anchor]

7 or 8 prolly

[modest geyser]

Missed the chance to say 6 or 7

[versed creek]

Whats lossless in anime its just 1080p in mkv

[versed creek]

Fr

[upbeat anchor]

im glad

but i did think that and how close

[modest geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/daitaku-helios-umamusume-67-brainrot-gif-4785550353554980182

[jade current]

67

No

[modest geyser]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[hardy arrow]

Can share on teamviewer lol

[versed creek]

I red crystal cat as cat alyst

[modest geyser]

Thanks purple people

[tight mural]

Never mind it’s not done it’s not supposed to do that is supposed to act human

[quiet saddle]

Usually the format is MPEG-2. It's the raw file from the Blu-ray disc, uncompressed

[fickle ivy]

Frank Zog is the actor who plays Superman in the film "Superman 2." His role as Jack Blackwood is a key part of the story, along with his other roles as Jimmy Lee Shannon (Bruce Banner) and Alan Moore (Lois Washington).

[upbeat anchor]

can people plz learn to not put animations everywhere

[tight mural]

What do you mean

[versed creek]

Where do you even get it

[versed creek]

Sometime the plain icons as emoji feel premium

[modest geyser]

That one persons embeds here that left the server i still see the embeds in my nightmares

[versed creek]

Do you even sleep brow

[upbeat anchor]

@olive depot how come your bot is in way too many screenshots here... idk if i should be congratulating orrr

[quiet saddle]

Well, it comes from Blu-ray discs originally

[versed creek]

Do you watch anime of discs wtf

[upbeat anchor]

2026-05-13 03:51:36 Unhandled Rejection at: [object Promise], reason: TypeError: null is not an object (evaluating 'this.rest') ║
discord.js what are you thinking

i thought you were meant to be the stable lib

[quiet saddle]

Almost 50 Mbps bitrate for 1080p!

[upbeat anchor]

[quiet saddle]

That's like a typical bitrate for 4K

[versed creek]

I get it!

[upbeat anchor]

but are your treas ratcheting for this

[weary bluff]

If they are going to do, at least make it 1 loop gif bruh

It’s not kind of gif needs loop infinite

https://tenor.com/view/wires-cat-wires-wires-twitch-twitch-gif-4904131052786437239

[tight mural]

Just run a LLM

boom privacy and unsencored AI

[sudden yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[tight mural]

yah im meaning to make sure all responces are short but use ollama and then download chatGPT Claude or more all free and running on your computer offline

[sudden yoke]

I mean.. I run two LLM's on my server
I would know how to do it

[tight mural]

Nice im currently running 4 AI models i made

all on my computer

[daring wasp]

good mornin

[tight mural]

Good morning

[trim geode]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[tight mural]

?

[trim geode]

ty mods

[tight mural]

what was that for?

[daring wasp]

he was advertising

[trim geode]

it was a bot

[tight mural]

oh i used the TTS option cause i wasnt going to read it so i only heard like 1 sentence

hold up how do people make bots like that do they just make a script and give it a VM and a account

or what?

[trim geode]

They do it by violating TOS and that kinda conversation is a violation of the rules here no one is gonna teach anyone how to do it

[jade current]

Hi Matt

[tight mural]

So a VM, Script, and Account?

[trim geode]

Doesn't matter, it's all a violation of TOS

[tight mural]

couldnt discord just make a VM detecter in the app to prevent that so they have to use main account or main device

[jade current]

Gaining the abiity to use short, non-descriptive names to save time and characters to type :D

[tight mural]

huh?

[jade current]

Yes

[tight mural]

the fuh you mean yes

[jade current]

Indeed true

[tight mural]

the fuh

[jade current]

Me still learning Python ```py
def a(x: int, y: int) -> int:
return x + y
a(1, 2)

[dry gorge]

Yo guys morning

[tight mural]

Good Morning

[tight mural]

Speak english or in print("")

not some gibberish

[jade current]

print "What"

[tight mural]

you make no sense at all its not me still learning python its im still learning python

[jade current]

It's Python2

[tight mural]

Still is python

[jade current]

Yes

print "Hello, World!"

[tight mural]

print ("Hello, World")

[tranquil flower]

hi peeps, does anyone happen to know whats happening with the intent verification process? my bot has had a request pending for just under a month (28 days), and our bot is now capped at 100 servers due to the awful response time. has anyone else experienced this?

[jade current]

In Python2, print is a keyword and does not need the parentheses. In Python3, it's resolved into a python() function

[trim geode]

long wait times are normal according to many people here.

Could be from a couple weeks to a couple months

there's no guarantee on the timing

[tranquil flower]

we used to get a response within 2 weeks, its now 4+ weeks...

[trim geode]

nothing is guaranteed

[tight mural]

Id say make another bot and when the main one gets verifyed make the second bot auto add the main one then leave

[weary bluff]

Don’t use intents :l

[tight mural]

but you need intents

[tranquil flower]

we did that originally, but we cant just keep making bots to scale

[weary bluff]

My bot doesn’t but I got it still anyway

[jade current]

For what use-cases are your intents

[weary bluff]

Even before reaching to 70 (this is my 4. Bot)

[weary bluff]

AI chat, ticket systems back then

Now it is HTTP-interaction bot, so no need anymore

[jade current]

*That question also goes for primsxzx

[trim geode]

This is incredibly risky if not an outright violaiton that could lead to both bots being denied/removed.

[jade current]

AI chat 🤨

[tight mural]

how would they know

[trim geode]

They can literally see it

[weary bluff]

Yeah, I was thinking how can I make a Clyde-like version bot

[tight mural]

true i forgot about that

[weary bluff]

It worked though

[trim geode]

The approval process is there for a reason, purposely bypassing that is not advised and in many cases could be seen as a violation of the TOS

[weary bluff]

It was creating threads when there’s a new convo

[tight mural]

Clyde-like version bot?

[weary bluff]

Yeah

[tight mural]

I meant like what do you mean Clyde-like version bot

[weary bluff]

When you mention the bot, it was creating a thread and only answering to the threads that she created

[tight mural]

nice

[weary bluff]

And yeah, she had emotions

On the replies (they weren’t random)

[tight mural]

nice

[weary bluff]

But yeah, she is an app rather than bot now

Actually still bot tbh

Just no more stalking messages

[tight mural]

ok

[weary bluff]

Just saying, code the bot for your server purposes

Public bots seems like useless to me

But here I have with free stuffs so

[tall thunder]

Not everyone has a server to host it on

[weary bluff]

That’s why I say, currently developing public bots seem unnecessary

[grizzled remnant]

“Can anyone help me? How much time does it take to get intent verified?”

[weary bluff]

“4+ weeks”

[grizzled remnant]

“It’s been nearly 1 month. If May 19 comes, it’ll be a full month.”

But still no response

[weary bluff]

My dad was saying “back then when we were going to verify our bots to go to Discord, we used to wait 3 months in the winter”

Nowadays developers are wanting to things end quickly

Ahhh, these new dev kids…

[spring hollow]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[tight mural]

What was the bot doing now?

[fickle ivy]

Hello!

Yes, I can code in various programming languages such as Python, JavaScript, and Java.

[tight mural]

Ok good

[fickle ivy]

1. Python
2. Java
3. JavaScript
4. C++
5. Ruby

[tight mural]

alright seems to work good

[tranquil bobcat]

🔮 Magic 8-Ball

Question

will Bayern Munich get knocked out on semi finals?

Answer

Signs point to yes

May 14, 2026, 1:05 AM

[tight mural]

I forgot about this

In content: Must be 2000 or fewer in lengt

i just waitied for 2 minutes then checked logs and see that it cant give me the code

[floral rapids]

correct, content, embed description, embed field, 2000 characters,
a maximum of 6000 characters in embeds (title, footer, description, field title, field description)

[tight mural]

6000 in embeds i should switch it to embed then

i forgot about the message limits

[floral rapids]

embed description and embed fields are still 2k

[tight mural]

darn

[floral rapids]

just do a session if it's bigger than 2k and paginate it, make the session a maximum of 1 hour

[tight mural]

but i could make each section hold up to 2k to get 6k in total

make it send in sections instead of one message if its to big

[floral rapids]

well not exactly, as far as I know, title and footer do take part of them..
can't you just have a continue button which would reply to the message?

[tight mural]

true so it would also work if you just do user install

[tight mural]

Thanks for the help

god thats a while

[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:01:45 | 200 | 27.4916351s | 127.0.0.1 | POST "/api/generate"
[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:06:00 | 200 | 1m21s | 127.0.0.1 | POST "/api/generate"
[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:08:45 | 200 | 1m50s | 127.0.0.1 | POST "/api/generate"
[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:10:54 | 200 | 543µs | 127.0.0.1 | GET "/api/version"
[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:10:56 | 200 | 0s | 127.0.0.1 | GET "/api/version"
[GIN] 2026/05/13 - 21:10:56 | 200 | 227.1739ms | 127.0.0.1 | POST "/api/me"

227.1739ms

[odd violet]

Hey!
Admin here of a 700k server. We are having some issues with our server being age restricted due to what we think was a mass report done my bot attack.
Having no luck with support tickets. Do you know how else we can get help?

[runic field]

Not here nor anywhere else. Only through a support ticket.

[daring wasp]

there's no other way than support

[odd violet]

It keeps only giving us AI responses 😩

[runic field]

Either read the response since it should contain either information where to properly open a ticket or reply back.

[odd violet]

Okay thx we’ll keep trying

[tight mural]

Good luck

[tight mural]

500 lines already god

[jade current]

What do you use for music

[tight mural]

cause why not its jarvis

[jade current]

I mean how/where are you getting audio from:|

[tight mural]

FFMPEG, yt-dlp, and PyNaCl

[jade current]

Ah so basically YT violating, well copyright specifically

[tight mural]

no not really

[jade current]

Wdym "not really"

[tight mural]

there is no violating anything

[jade current]

There is

[tight mural]

it just downloads and plays the song

[inner portal]

Hi everyone, how are you?

[jade current]

Do you have license to stream audio content?

[jade current]

Scorched

[inner portal]

Like this?

[tight mural]

thats what yt-dlp is for

[jade current]

I say, as I put on a layer of winter clothing

[jade current]

???

[tight mural]

basicly youtube for python

[patent carbon]

so... that would be illegal

[inner portal]

I understood

[patent carbon]

you could be sued for damages by youtube (or the license holders of the music) for violating the copyright of the content

[jade current]

YTDL(P?) is just a Python package, it does not grant licenses/legal rights whatsoever

[tight mural]

wrong thing

[patent carbon]

<@&1050493473033289778> youtube tos violation

[tight mural]

wrong

[jade current]

AI slop

[patent carbon]

you should look up the youtube tos

[tight mural]

Not really i used jarvis which i made jarvis

meaning not really AI slop

[bleak pond]

Just buy Spotify api

[patent carbon]

spotify does not have a streaming api

[tight mural]

nah i want it free

[bleak pond]

Really I didn't know

[patent carbon]

they only have a metadata api

the rights to stream music would cost many many thousands of $

[bleak pond]

Then which api have streaming api

[pale hull]

They used to have a streaming API but it was for personal use only

[quiet saddle]

None, basically.

[patent carbon]

the only place on discord i know that follows the law is Rythm

[bleak pond]

Does other music bot pay that much

[patent carbon]

no... they just all violate the law

and if youtube starts caring again... theyll send out thousands of cease and desists like they did last time

[bleak pond]

Why aren't they ban yet then

[pale hull]

Costs money for YouTube to care

[patent carbon]

i dont know why discord and youtube dont enforce their tos for it... but they dont... probably more expensive to do the legal work than lost revenue

[wicked bane]

Why isn’t discord banning those bots?

That break the laws?

[pale hull]

But they did in the past

[patent carbon]

^

[wicked bane]

Did they?

[pale hull]

Rhythm is a good example

[bleak pond]

Groove

[pale hull]

Although I think they shutdown before being banned/sued

[wicked bane]

Oh yeah groove ty

[patent carbon]

the current version of rhythm became a thing many years after the original bot was taken down by youtube

[bleak pond]

No place for advertisement

[patent carbon]

<@&1050493473033289778> selling saas

[bleak pond]

I still miss those old bots

[pale hull]

Even worse AISAAS

[tight mural]

I have it wrong it
yt-dlp searches youtube then It extracts a direct media stream URL
then FFMPEG plays that stream in Discord voice

[jade current]

Hu birb

[patent carbon]

yes and extracting youtube videos... even non-music ones... is against the tos

[quiet saddle]

Yeah, you should really stop

[patent carbon]

youtube does not allow video download unless you have premium... and those files are encrypted thus cannot be reuploaded

[tight mural]

Nothing happend yet and ive been using this methed for months

[patent carbon]

doesnt make it less against the tos ... and risk you to legal liability

[quiet saddle]

I don't really care what you're doing but you can't discuss it here

[bleak pond]

Nobody cares now

[patent carbon]

what do you think happens when you verify your bot? why do you think discord does that? so if someone sends a cease and desist to discord, they can forward it to you

[daring wasp]

*it does on free (upto 360p) but doesn't change the fact that streaming to discord is still tos breaking

[patent carbon]

oh free users can do it now? neat!

[daring wasp]

upto 360p

720p and 1080p are premium only

[bleak pond]

Decent

[verbal wraith]

Enough for downloading meme videos

[bleak pond]

Yes

[daring wasp]

music videos and stuff like that can't be downloaded free though*

[pale hull]

I wonder if someone downloading a video counts as a view

[patent carbon]

ya i dont know how they handle that

[bleak pond]

There once used to be an app to download yt and other social media videos for free directly to phone

[quiet saddle]

and then it was probably yeeted because it violated the TOS like every other app that has done that

[blissful sequoia]

i didnt even know you could download without premium damn

[daring wasp]

i get yt premium trial every once in a while and then never pay for it again :p

[trail mist]

Hii how many days it take to Verify intents??

[blissful sequoia]

its gonna be closer to months than days

[bleak pond]

Nah that app is still around

[trail mist]

I have applied 19 days ago (13 bussiness days)

[bleak pond]

If only that app had an api for streaming

[pale hull]

Some users have reported over 6 weeks

[patent carbon]

^

[trail mist]

Huh?

[patent carbon]

keep waiting

[trail mist]

Aah

[pale hull]

Before they got their intents approved

[bleak pond]

Might take months

Or few weeks or days

[olive depot]

🤷‍♂️

[trail mist]

As per dc it's maybe only 15 Bussiness days

[bleak pond]

Nah

[trail mist]

Huh

[quiet saddle]

As per reality it's 1 or 2 months

[patent carbon]

i dont know where you saw that but that's no longer true

[bleak pond]

It can be more

[trail mist]

Hm

[viscid steppe]

i love neovim 😔

[jade current]

Why not vsc

[patent carbon]

jetbrains ftw

[bleak pond]

Integrated ai slop in it

That's why

[patent carbon]

that's everything other than terminal based editors

pretty much every IDE and Code Editor have AI tools built in now

[bleak pond]

Just need to disable ai simple

[quiet saddle]

you can very easily disable all AI tools in VS Code

[patent carbon]

ya, it's like 3 clicks iirc

[bleak pond]

Ctrl+shift+p

[quiet saddle]

I asked AI how to do it

[bleak pond]

Then enter disableai

[patent carbon]

lol... based

"ai... how do i delete you"

[bleak pond]

Just tick that and done

[serene wind]

GPT-5.2-Codex is being deprecated on June 1st from the github student pack

this is it ? we are left with nothing

[pale hull]

🧠

[viscid steppe]

i don't need more electron apps

[patent carbon]

what about webview apps?

still browser based... but using shared resources rather than each having their own browser engine

[quiet saddle]

<@&1050493473033289778>

[jade current]

Why not Notepad/++

[serene wind]

scammer, wallets are linked, he wants to steal all ur wallets

[patent carbon]

<@&1050493473033289778> still need cleanup on isle: here

❤️

<@&1050493473033289778> anotha one

[radiant bough]

whats sdk and gdk😭

[patent carbon]

Couldn't tell you what GDK is. But SDK means Software Development Kit. And in the context of this server, meaning tools to integrate into Discord

[trim geode]

Game Development Kit?

[olive depot]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-notebook-gif-20708336

Oh i just discovered its drake, by gif name

[vestal fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-laptop-duh-gif-8033838636860661307

[lyric escarp]

what am I supposed to do with this

or just... let it be

[quiet saddle]

looks like you had a hard-coded auth token in your code and some part of your toolchain removed it before it actually got pushed

gg

[lyric escarp]

that was me censoring it for screenshot

[quiet saddle]

oh lmao

so you actually committed it to main though

[lyric escarp]

well

[patent carbon]

Who would so something silly like that

[lyric escarp]

it takes a lot of direct database manipulation to get a new one :/

[quiet saddle]

better start manipulating

[lyric escarp]

• login as root on server
• go to service dir
• bun repl
• import required functions and the database
• db.c.keys = []
• gen new key and push that key in

[trim geode]

Sounds like a good oppurtunity to build a way to make it easier :)

or just force push and wipe history if you can

but won't prevent it if people already have it locally

[quiet saddle]

why are you sending such a sensitive secret via such an insecure method anyways

[lyric escarp]

there's a frontend for that API but unfortunately I haven't made the API management

[trim geode]

whatcha mean?

[lyric escarp]

I was sending it in bearer token wdym

[trim geode]

I'm also confused since that's a common pattern, unless there's something else? like the fact that it's basically permanent keys?

[quiet saddle]

I mean that's not great for something that's meant to be like, a master key for example

[trim geode]

It's a common pattern, but I'm curious what you'd do

[lyric escarp]

there's 2 acceptable auth in that API

Cloudflare Access and Bearer token

which the only place cf access is passed to that API is via the frontend

[quiet saddle]

Not send something over network if it's meant to be a permanent or semi-permanent key

[lyric escarp]

I was sending it over localhost

[trim geode]

Still curious what you'd do because I see it a lot as the standard approach for cross service communication. Like having API key pattern that's rotated on demand.

[lyric escarp]

you'd also have to keep track of the API key if it's rotated on demand?

[trim geode]

wait..unless you're referencing HTTP vs HTTPS?

I just noticed that, but it looks like it's on docker network so that's minimal issue

[lyric escarp]

astral, is this server's tailscale name, so it's localhost
8811, is the subdomain manager service port
http://astral:8811/subdomain/

[quiet saddle]

if it's just localhost then yeah not really a concern

as for cross-service communication @trim geode that really depends on the level of control you have over the other service - if it's a third party, then you kinda just have to deal with whatever the best security they offer is

[trim geode]

but what would you do if you had control of both ends. This is me just probing since I know you've been working in the encryption space a bit

[near crescent]

what in tarnation were those 9 (!) pings while i slept?

[patent carbon]

Just don't sleep. Problem solved

I say as I'm in bed

[full cobalt]

all in one bot vs one bot for one funcation

[trim geode]

bots are being bots tonight

[patent carbon]

One bot one function

[jade current]

All in one function

[near crescent]

all the same or different?

[patent carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-interview-james-franco-david-skylark-same-but-different-but-still-same-gif-4956158

[lyric escarp]

one bot related functions

[jade current]

Why do they feel muted 🥀

[trim geode]

All in ones tend to be a jack-of-all-trades master of none. So if you're okay with it doing a lot of things to a mediocre level at best then go for the all-in-ones (aka kitchen sink).

[full cobalt]

YEAAA

[olive depot]

All in one which actually does everything properly instead of doing everything mid

[full cobalt]

like how the quote bot is popular even tho every multi purpose bot like greed and bleed have quote command

[floral rapids]

thanks for reminding me that I need to do a table that disables keys (so in a way, even if it's generated and ends up as that specific key, I would need to re-generate, as that key is publicly shared by a used)

this will be a pain for the processor🥀

[full cobalt]

I feel like it was possible before with prefix commands, but all in one bot with only slash commands won't work

[olive depot]

Huh why? What difference possibly it even make

[full cobalt]

we can only have 100 slash commands

[jade current]

with only slash commands won't work
What

[olive depot]

100k+

[full cobalt]

wait what

wasn't there limit to only 100 slash commands ?

[jade current]

You can have groups and subgroup commands

[daring wasp]

heading to exam now :3

[jade current]

Good luck

[full cobalt]

Good luck !

[glass silo]

62,5k with groups and sub commands/groups

[quiet saddle]

@trim geode if I wanted to go absolutely over the top, I would derive a strong symmetric key using a Diffie-Hellman exchange, use the symmetric key to encrypt the actual secret (password) for authentication, and send an ephemeral, short-lived token (and refresh token) to use for subsequent requests, so that the actual password is never used outside of the initial exchange. I'd layer PKCE over the whole process to protect against a possible MITM attack.

[full cobalt]

This time I'm working with like slash commands + forms

its soo much easy to understand even for users

since the forms also have select funcations and other stuff

[floral rapids]

is that being added to the e2ee lib you're doing

[jade current]

You can also have selects in slash commands

At least as options

[trim geode]

That's damn near impossible to keep up with at scale. It's why bots like Mee6, YAGDB, ProBot, etc all steer like cruise ships instead of a fishing boat. They're all good to a point (depending on who you ask), but more modules means more work and there will always be modules falling behind...unless you literally throw money at more people to work on more modules but then you have to raise your prices which turns away potential customers.

[olive depot]

Adns even better than normal select menus

[olive depot]

You're saying its difficult to develop or maintain

[trim geode]

Okay but can you please actually turn this into an actual implementation if it doesn't already exist?

[floral rapids]

that and some old modules end up becoming more expensive, which in return you might get required to make them paid

imagine, a module that cost you $5/mo for example to suddenly double, triple or even quadruple

[full cobalt]

bleed.bot is one of the ebst bot which actually have all the features a server can need and well mentained

but its paid

[trim geode]

because it is. Tech debt, legacy code, the fact that Discord API changes and deprecates things. Hell just the other day Mee6 temp voice channels was down like the entire day and the auto role assignment...2 pretty "simple" features that basically have fallen by the wayside entirely from what it seems.

[olive depot]

That makes it worst, and its not "best", it's UX is shi asf

[floral rapids]

idk about that

[olive depot]

You have to literally write embed code etc to send embed in a channel

[trim geode]

bleedbot has it's own issues entirely.

[full cobalt]

the dashboard ?

[olive depot]

And its even more PAYWALLED

[floral rapids]

everything is expensive, processing, getting data, etc

[jade current]

Me when the bot goes down and all features go down

[full cobalt]

its 30$ for one time

[olive depot]

And?

[full cobalt]

for big servers, I think its not that expensive

its depends on the person if they need it

[floral rapids]

it depends on the server?

[trim geode]

for example, snipe commands in general are very very very very frowned upon if not outright violation of discord developer TOS...yet bleed has 3 of those commands for different things.

[olive depot]

Its just hyped by big servers, nothing premium in it tbh

[full cobalt]

yep

[floral rapids]

I think a lot of big servers aren't earning a cent

[olive depot]

As a normal user, ain't buying that bot without knowing how it even works

[trim geode]

If a services that provides on-going services offers a lifetime purchase..I'd be extremely wary of it's viability. Everything costs on a monthly basis including servers so either they will run out of customers and have to shut down or ask for more money. Funny enough Mee6 (I know I know) did this with their Web3 stuff, despite the server owner purchasing a lifetime license to Mee6 we can't even access some of the functions of Mee6 (unless that changed recently)

[floral rapids]

issue is that people would also question monthly services too

[bleak pond]

i would question free services as the user is the product for them

[olive depot]

I don't think alat will do, people more often recommend one-time, if pricing is decent

[floral rapids]

For example, you have a bot that utilizes apis from everywhere or makes their own, but even so, you're paying a heavy amount, and people are straight up not interested in helping out

[floral rapids]

but the servers, the apis, etc etc. all of these run monthly basis

[quiet saddle]

Haha, not exactly - the library itself doesn't interface directly with user authentication (that part would be handled by the front-end layer of an app) - it only "knows" who is who in a group by their digital signature key. But it will provide:

• uncompromising cryptographic protection, by encrypting every message with a distinct key and nonce
• forward secrecy and post-compromise security, by ensuring that a member who is removed from the group is literally unable to decipher any messages sent beyond that point (even if they managed to get their hands on the messages) - because their keys no longer work
• authentication and integrity: running hashes of the cryptographic state of the group that ensure all changes to group state are visible to all members. no member can be added without everyone being made aware

[floral rapids]

not one-time

[trim geode]

madeline jump scare

[trim geode]

I'm confused on the point you're trying to make here?

[olive depot]

I know, just replied to what you said "people would also question monthly"

[floral rapids]

let's say a bot that is mostly fully getting data from 3rd party services for what you ask (I think we can talk about chatbots for this case? I mean I'm not sure but they seem correct as an example, even translation bots) you give them first month for free, your bill might end up in the 3 digits, but they get it for free, for how long do you think you can maintain paying this out of your pocket?

• updates to the bot + keeping up with any breaking API changes

[trim geode]

I'm still confused...that's the point I was making entirely.

[olive depot]

Isn't its same for dedicated bots?

[floral rapids]

^ it was an example for what I was talking about

[floral rapids]

maybe not?
dedicated bots might be able to use cheaper plans

[olive depot]

they will have to pay for third party services too, then how this conclude dev dedicated bots is better than all in one

[full cobalt]

true but they have a pretty big community and have been known for years, so that makes it easier to trust compared to some random new bot. Also, they never really advertised it as “lifetime” from what I’ve seen, more like a one-time purchase

[olive depot]

How??

If a bot is dedicated, in fact it will be more used for that purpose

[trim geode]

One time purchase implies lifetime (unless otherwise stated in their TOS), usually for the duration of the services you pay for...but that's unrealistic since no matter what, you as a customer take up compute monthly. So at some point your payment will turn from income to loss. If, for example, you pay $30 for a bot and your usage equates to $1 a month...after 2.5 years your usage will have to be subsidized by someone else, and so on and so forth.

Those one time purchases usually gamble on people buying then forgetting the bot exists or not using it's system entirely.

[full cobalt]

I also think It will be way cheaper than all in one bot

[full cobalt]

They did mention it in tos, infact if someone say lifetime, they always correct them and say its onetime

[lyric escarp]

dont know if this is bun being slower or npm being slower

[olive depot]

We're talking about third party api usgae, there will be no difference whether the bot is dedicated or all in one if its consumed by same users

[floral rapids]

ok let's say, you have 2 discord bots, one is private for a single server, another is public.
You use same service, same everything, the public bot needs to pay off a higher bill for the VPS/dedicated server compared to the private bot which might not need more than 1gb ram VPS
now for the 3rd party service, you have a single server bill compared to many servers bills, so the private one will end up buying a smaller plan (let's say the plans are: free, $5/mo, $10/mo, enterprise) yeah I think free sometimes end up being used for private bots, for dedicated (which aren't private) they might end up with the $10/mo or even go with a higher one if they are using way too many requests per month, that if they are using a 3rd party service, on the other hand if they aren't dedicated, they might end up missing out on a breaking change API, true that's where it can get expensive to get a developer to fix it, but you can just give bare-bone since you aren't dedicated to that/these specific service(s)

not sure if I explained correctly

[trim geode]

That doesn’t really make sense because the whole argument hinges on ongoing costs. With a monthly subscription, you’re inherently paying for those ongoing costs. From the customer’s perspective, the monthly fee is meant to cover your usage of the service, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make as it's already baked into the pricing structure.

[floral rapids]

but overall dedicated from my point of view is much more expensive cause you expect more features in it compared to one that isn't

[olive depot]

Huh? How the topic changed from all in one vs dedicated to public vs private bots??

[floral rapids]

continue reading

I'm showing you everything, private, public (non-dedicated and dedicated) in that message

[olive depot]

"might end up missing out"

[trim geode]

I'm still confused because you're just explaining how offering a SaaS works.

[olive depot]

And i did mentioned earlier IF all in one bot maintained properly, not like another yagpdb

[trim geode]

I'm just not sure the point you're trying to make here because everything you're saying is just how offering a service works.

Of course a private, single user service is going to cost exorbitantly less than a service that's hosted to the public.

[floral rapids]

you're half correct, it's how discord bots now work

[trim geode]

Pretty sure it's how they've always worked. Pretty sure that's how all major chatbots work these days.

Except stream bots, which seem to be a weird outlier...?

which has always fascinated me

[floral rapids]

pretty much, you'd be digging a hole in this one, chatbots are a bit of an "easier" (consider it as a trial?) way to do stream bots, well not entirely true but some stuff are just annoying to handle

[trim geode]

huh?

[olive depot]

What is even stream bots

[trim geode]

stream bots such as fossabot, nightbot, streamelement, sery, streamlabs, etc.

[cunning plume]

I am super friggin proud of this update. i've gone from a split panel message builder to a WYSIWYG editor that's super clean and much easier to build and work with. Friggin awesome!

[olive depot]

I mean what it does

[trim geode]

they're just, at their core, like older Discord bots with prefix commands

or straight up IRC bots (for Twitch)

but stream specific ones usually have responses to other events like follows, subscriptions, donations, etc...so they have specific functionality tailored to streams; but that's normal for a service specific thing

[olive depot]

intersting

-# and btw something is wrong with your pfp

it never stays same

[trim geode]

May just be me...but I absolutely despise WYSIWYG editors for Discord components. For blogs, or webpages, etc...fine...but for some reason I absolutely hate it with components in Discord.

I'd have an option to use the other version if I were you.

[trim geode]

likely a client bug. I have 2 profiles and the one with that face with white background is my server profile.

[patent carbon]

It's a minor bug. It doesn't really Matter

-# I'll go now

[olive depot]

it mostly shows that white face one, but sometime the green or smthng

[winged swan]

:kekw:

[trim geode]

https://tenor.com/view/david-duchovny-hank-moody-californication-gif-24573384

[winged swan]

u so funny

[cunning plume]

I'd consider you the exception not the rule. No way fortune 500 companies are doing it just like that, for no reason.

[trim geode]

What F500 companies are building Discord message component builders 😭

[cunning plume]

It's the underlying design principle xD

Gitbook, Linear, friggin tons of companies including Google and Microsoft

[trim geode]

and the problem is just changing spacing in lines render differently on Discord...so it's very very rare I've seen a component builder match 1 to 1, which is why I just prefer to not have it rather than design around something that's not the client itself

[cunning plume]

That much is true, I've been battling that exact problem. I'm close but it's still not 1:1 at all.

[glass silo]

Opal guy funny

[cunning plume]

Separators and selectors are great examples of where it kind of falls apart.

Either way, for a normal user, I think they're going to find it immensely better to work with.

[trim geode]

For example:

Call

hello world how are you?

Response

I am doing fine.

# Call
hello world how are you?
## Response
I am doing fine.

vs

Call

hello world how are you?

Response

I am doing fine.

# Call
hello world how are you?

## Response
I am doing fine.

Just a single line break changes the formatting...and that's only one line break...imagine if the entire component had random line breaks. It legit changes the entire size of the message to an annoying degree

[cunning plume]

OH lol yeh mine doesn't do that

[trim geode]

Which is my point...so it's not "what you see is what you get"
It's "what you see is maybe what you get depending on how we actually convert the markdown"

[cunning plume]

I'm converting the MD 1:1

But markdown is encapsulated inside of a TextBuilder so it's guaranteed to match exactly what a user would expect in discord. For example. One moment

[trim geode]

Except...it doesn't...because line breaks change how the content is displayed in Discord (for example)

-# which is my entire point

[cunning plume]

I guess I'm not following. I've never experienced a line break breaking the format.

[trim geode]

plus, and this is me being super pedantic, I wouldn't consider this s WYSIWYG because it's not actually displaying what they'd see

Talking about the markdown headers, not the resolving of tags and such

how do you not see the difference

[cunning plume]

Yes the one on the right has more space

[full cobalt]

within 4 hours

[trim geode]

Exactly...because of one line break

[cunning plume]

Okay and that's a problem for my editor how? If a user puts a linebreak I display that line break.

• Other serious nuisance behavior

• Some text after a line break

Yeh.. not connecting the dots here lol

I'm not saying your wrong to be clear, I'm just saying I'm not understanding.

[trim geode]

If your editor is intending to display exactly how it would be seen on Discord (which is the entire point of a WYSIWYG editor), then not accounting for all the variations where it can change the output of that display means that they're not seeing what they're getting

[cunning plume]

I mean different resolution devices could change that output, desktop vs mobile

[trim geode]

Different resolutions don't change that specific behavior

it's the same no matter the device

From the example I gave

And when building larger components, those gaps in the blocks mean a lot.

Especially when you start mixing in multiple headers, subtext, etc

a bigger example

The only thing different between the 2? Line breaks.

[cunning plume]

Is your statement basically "You're not pixel perfect, so it can't be WYSIWYG"

If that's your litmus, you win the argument xD

[trim geode]

All I'm saying is, I'd provide the old style for people who dislike those kind of editors.

[cunning plume]

That's a fair argument, but that old style, to me felt like cognitive overload. I can respect your position on it

[trim geode]

And programmatically it shouldn't be that hard since they both just text editors at the end of the day...you just sync the states between the blocks or you presumably have them in some different format in the background that is "discord format adjacent" anyway so just support the different inputs

[cunning plume]

They're not just text editors though, that's the scary part.

It's truly building components. And those components have the capability to create custom id's and such for interactions

[burnt anchor]

Hii guys anyone wana help me test an AI Platform?

[olive depot]

no

[trim geode]

ewww AI
-# Sent from Claude for Discord

[burnt anchor]

I literally use claude in my platform 😂

[olive depot]

just as i expected

[cunning plume]

Lol 10/10 would asdfjasd the history of discord is.

[trim geode]

https://tenor.com/view/you're-a-robot-superman-my-adventures-with-superman-you're-an-android-you-are-not-a-human-gif-11754081761166082954

[verbal wraith]

Thank god I can jump to ace's messages now

[olive depot]

you can't

[verbal wraith]

I just did

[olive depot]

HUH

[verbal wraith]

[olive depot]

clyde never dissapoints

i guess you are on mobile

if ticket status is marked as solved, does it mean i won't get a reply?

[verbal wraith]

That's the funny part, I'm not on mobile

[olive depot]

weird

oh it worked after refreshing

[near crescent]

got rid of the flag? grats!

[olive depot]

https://tenor.com/view/wednesday-wednesday-addams-netflix-jenna-jenna-ortega-gif-27224374

[lyric escarp]

bots can run slash commands? 🤨

[bleak pond]

interesting

[near crescent]

no

[trim geode]

ngl, I have zero clue what that permission even does or even tied to

[sudden yoke]

Morninggg

[cunning plume]

Isn't it basically the permission that allows your bot to recognize that a slash command was used on the server? It maps to USE_APPLICATION_COMMANDS which just allows members the ability to use the commands ye?

[neat olive]

I'm pretty sure they're just using the same perms for all users regardless of what those perms do

[neat olive]

recognizing that a command had been used would be an intent, not a perm, no?

[near crescent]

"Use Slash Commands" lets users with the permission use commands for any apps (including ones that are installed on the server level)

giving it to bots does nothing

[zealous gate]

it lets bots apply overrides granting that permission

[bleak pond]

it just let user use slash command thats it

[trim geode]

so basically it's a copy-paste permission from the standard permissions for roles? lol

cause that's what it sounds like there lolol

[vestal fractal]

Yeah that's what I thought, someone here previously said support can't do that

[vestal fractal]

They just show all user permissions, more than a few are meaningless for bots

[zealous gate]

they're not meaningless ^

you need perms when granting them to others, so you need to be able to request them

it's just niche for perms like these

[vestal fractal]

You'd need manage roles anyways

Or I don't get it

[zealous gate]

you need both manage roles and the perm you're trying to grant

and in certain cases admin

[vestal fractal]

Well manage server just bypasses that

I think?

[zealous gate]

no

[vestal fractal]

Haven't messed with permissions in a long time

[zealous gate]

that would be a security flaw if you could just grant permissions you don't have

[near crescent]

what? if that's the permission calculator, yes, that's all available documented bits, whether they make sense to apply to an app or not

[trim geode]

yeah just more of an oberservation

reminds me a bit of the HiRez API but much better

[vestal fractal]

I wonder when all scopes will be documented

[trim geode]

HiRez literally copy-pasted SMITE into Paladins data structures

it was actually kinda wild

[zealous gate]

probably never considering a lot of them aren't for public use

they should just remove them from the dev portal

[vestal fractal]

So why are they there

[zealous gate]

cuz it's discord

polishing is not their strong suit

[vestal fractal]

At least it's not a money thing this time

[olive depot]

#dev-chat message GET HIM /j

[vestal fractal]

((:

[glass silo]

Fr

[olive depot]

-# it wasn't about printer 🫤

[lyric escarp]

very interesting

[upbeat anchor]

but like have you tried turning off and on your printer (sometimes the only step u need to do is just on)

[bleak pond]

but bcz i am getting paid huh

[floral rapids]

question: considering i have a guild installed application, i have both global and per guild commands, if i change my global commands, do i need to register the per guild commands again

[grizzled remnant]

[potent surge]

[dark moth]

They are completely separate

[modest geyser]

My graph is a cat

[winged swan]

lmaoo

[glass silo]

Cute

[trim geode]

huh, the bun rust branch got merged

and just trying to load the PR gave me the unicorn a couple times...love that.

It can't even load the comments for it, holy hell

[dark moth]

Given how widely used js runtimes are, its good to see some improve their memory safety like that

[modest geyser]

How long till someone figures out an exploit in the rewrite

[upbeat anchor]

[winged swan]

even python is going to get rust too in 3.16

[upbeat anchor]

realistically there isn't that much that a runtime like this can do wrong surely... like maybe the sql driver not doing args properly or idk

[modest geyser]

Hopefully portage wont require python 3.16 atleast

[trim geode]

I've seen way more discourse around their use of unsafe (which seems weird since apparently in Rust you're supposed to use unsafe to make like I guess external lib calls work?), how quickly it is, if it works, use of AI, etc.

[modest geyser]

I dont wanna make my system start rusting :(

[upbeat anchor]

yeah bun rust is barely rusty rust, its still very ziggy

[winged swan]

oh bun uses zig?

[upbeat anchor]

well did up until a few hours ago

[winged swan]

i c

[upbeat anchor]

(latest release is zig tho)

[trim geode]

which is crazy because like...the tests are written in a completely different language so in theory if the tests past it should be pretty good to go?

-# *this is an assumption of course lol

[upbeat anchor]

you can use rust one with bun upgrade --canary rn

[upbeat anchor]

tests are all in bun

[trim geode]

I can't even get more comments...

[upbeat anchor]

which means it prob was the first thing to get working

[dark moth]

Unsafe is basically bypassing the safety checks of the compiler yes. Best to avoid but when crossing boundaries to external libs it is required caise yhere are no guarantees on what the external module will do to your memory

Same with low lvl hardware access

[upbeat anchor]

iirc zig has more checks than rusts unsafe, but in theory bun has more proper rust code than the "usafe zig", soo it balances out

[modest geyser]

Its also required to use the asm macro which is essential to writing fast rust code and make rust actually writeable

[trim geode]

So, genuine question as a non-rust user, wouldn't it make sense that it's using unsafe pretty heavily considering it's a JS runtime that uses JSCore?

[upbeat anchor]

also pretty sure bun actually doesn't use as much as some other apps, its just more visible as it has like no external deps

[dark moth]

It depends really on what hscore is and how soynd that is

[upbeat anchor]

yeah the bindings to jsc (c++) would have to be done via unsafe

[trim geode]

JSCore is WebKit's JS system. Written by Apple.

[dark moth]

Ideal situation would be just replacing that with a rust lub as well, a safer one

[trim geode]

and also opensource, fun fact

[dark moth]

But thats much easier said then done ofc

[trim geode]

https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/tree/main/Source/JavaScriptCore

[upbeat anchor]

like esp no async or other staple libs and stuff people are used to

[modest geyser]

I dislike rust because they dont provide binaries and the bootstrap process is really stupid also no platform support

[dark moth]

But as long as you know what it does exactly amd handle it right, unsafe doesn't need to be a problem

[trim geode]

As a complete outsider of that specific space, it seems reasonable to use unsafe a lot in a project like Bun, based on my limited knowledge of Rust and how Rust dislikes things that are non-Rust

[upbeat anchor]

i feel like bun windows is going to get a huge speed improvement as i doubt they made it use releasesafe there anymore (linux/macos used releasefast)

[modest geyser]

Rust still has no way to officially bootstrap it

They say that you use their binaries to

But they dont provide binaries

[trim geode]

So would you say that people are leaning on the side of fear-mongering with the dependence on using unsafe as the core of their entire argument?

[dark moth]

Very likely

[modest geyser]

The actual way to bootstrap it is compile mrustc (a rust compiler in C++) then use that to compile rustc and then use minicargo (cargo in C++) to compile cargo because you cant compile cargo without cargo

[dark moth]

Unsafe just means less checking on that codeblock

Everything outside it is still checked

So unless they where lazy and wrapped more then strictly needed in unsafe, its a nothing burger

And the places that are now unsafe where just as unsafe in the old version because of that crossing boundries

[floral rapids]

ok so, how exactly am i supposed to trust this is an actual update from axios lol

[dark moth]

Now its just explicit about it

[modest geyser]

And you cant even cross compile because they disable that for all the targets that they dont provide binaries for

[floral rapids]

welp time to stay on 1.16.0 for safety reasons

[trim geode]

yeah, what I've seen mainly comes from theo...so I take it with a massive lump of salt lmao

[dark moth]

Also its a massive rewrite

[trim geode]

https://socket.dev/npm/package/axios

[modest geyser]

If rust had a proper way to bootstrap it i would be fine with stuff like this

[floral rapids]

oh right it was 1.14.1 not 1.16.1

[dark moth]

Skipping some things just to get v1 working and leaving stuff for later cleanup is fine, as long as its actually cleaned up later

[trim geode]

I think that's the major intent..I think they'll benefit more. Especially because of this:

It passes Bun's pre-existing test suite on all platforms (and fixes several memory leaks and flaky tests), the binary size shrinks by 3 MB - 8 MB, the benchmarks are between neutral and faster - and most importantly, we now have compiler-assisted tools for catching & preventing memory bugs, which have costed the team an enormous amount of development & debugging time over the years.

[modest geyser]

Just do it like zig did and compile a stage 1 rust compiler to wasm and have C code to turn that into C

[dark moth]

Like even if they only got 50% of code outside of unsafe blocks, thats atill 50% more then before

[trim geode]

I wish GitHub had better tools to deal with trolls and such besides locking

[dark moth]

So give em a year, see how it looks then. And how critical the paths left then are

[dark moth]

Feel free to go do it

Also benchmark all being neutral or faster is a big deal

[trim geode]

yeah I feel like a JS runtime is a perfect example of using Rust to make everyone's lives better. I am not a part of the bandwagon of "rust-ify everything" because tbh I don't think I'll ever ever ever use Rust and I don't think many projects absolutely need it either (besides if you want). I don't think I'll ever need anything lower than Go tbh.

But it makes complete sense for something like Bun to switch to Rust. I think even Deno uses Rust too?

[bold elk]

gh barely has the tooling to keep itself maintained

[dark moth]

It has to make sense, but js is everywhere now, and often in use cases that are publicly exposed to the internet, and with loads where a few % improvements makes a massive difference

[trim geode]

although speaking of Deno...I found this one funny.

[olive depot]

just ask if you have any question related to the topic, its not hanging our or making friends place

[dark moth]

This isn't a general hangout server, go to townhall for that

[trim geode]

Hell even a 3MB smaller binary at global scale can save terabytes of bandwidth alone

[modest geyser]

They wouldnt accept something like that as they have said they dont care about the bootstrap process and i dont want to wait 24h to get a rust toolchain

[dark moth]

Yup

[trim geode]

Smaller docker images too, which is nice.

[dark moth]

Not everything needs to be upstream, community toolinf is a thing

[modest geyser]

I mean yea but see the latter reason

[dark moth]

The one thing that is missing is enterprise support though

[trim geode]

For Bun?

[dark moth]

Most companies remain on node cause vendor lts support

[neat olive]

support really matters more than anything else

[trim geode]

huh, I never really thought about that. I wonder if bun has LTS plans

[dark moth]

It needs to be more then bun itself

For example red hat provides support for spring and jboss versions quite ling after their official eol

To enterprise customers paying a heft sum ofc

[trim geode]

Lets not forget node's early days and iojs...

I don't think we should cut bun a lot of slack, but that was also the wild west lmao

[dark moth]

Sure, and im sure bun can get to that eventually

But until it was bought, it was still fairly niche, you could argue it still is really

[trim geode]

not as niche as Deno though

but yah, still pretty niche in the global sense of Node vs others

[dark moth]

Its moving in the right way, but still long way to go

[trim geode]

I could definitely see it in the next 5 years shifting to a more "enterprise friendly" platform

[upbeat anchor]

the biggest thing that Bun has going for it is more long term viability... like before there was no actual path to making money

[teal orbit]

Hello, every one

[daring wasp]

bacj from exam and tired

still have a car ride back :<

[trim geode]

BunPackageManager...bpmjs.com

[upbeat anchor]

Lol

See bun isnt deno, it isnt trying to redo everything... but rather build upon existing stuff and make it better

[trim geode]

🥚 actly

[wind nymph]

@fossil sigil

[daring wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-plink-glasses-side-eye-smart-gif-11422187893182432522

[trim geode]

My biggest issue with Deno/JSR is that it tries to like reinvent the car when it just needs to reinvent some components to build a more efficient and effective car

[upbeat anchor]

Ya

[vestal fractal]

almost finished with my components logic

500 lines of doom

[daring wasp]

idk when I do that if I should go the dpy way or allow the devs themselves to parse the interaction create event

I'll prolly do somewhat similar to dpy

[strong prawn]

is there any bot that records the voice channel?

[trim geode]

Craig does

but that's off topic for this server

[daring wasp]

matt what do you think about this

[vestal fractal]

u can start by letting them parae but at the end of the day it's laziness (:

providing access to raw events separately is also a thing

[daring wasp]

i still have channels left
im tired from today's exam tho might not do stuff today

[daring wasp]

well yes I'm gonna allow them to manually listen to events

[vestal fractal]

ffs windows driver error now

[vestal fractal]

already a thing on dpy

[daring wasp]

I know that

[vestal fractal]

however they dont give u a to_dict method for interaction

to_dicts are mostly for internal usage

[daring wasp]

eh then?

[vestal fractal]

so no parsing

[daring wasp]

I haven't manually listened to event like that in discord.py

oh like it doesn't parse to objects or?

[vestal fractal]

i do in one bot to determine whether a button has an active callback

too lazy to switch to dynamicitem for that specific thing

[vestal fractal]

it's not raw, it gives you a parsed interaction object

[daring wasp]

Ah Okk I get It now

[lyric escarp]

bun.

really hope the rewrite comes with minimal tech debts and bugs

[trim geode]

I'm pretty confident in it being relatively stable as it's being ran against it's own tests which are runtime language agnostic

[upbeat anchor]

Yeah

And also the fact its a port, not rewrite

[ripe canyon]

Hello

[balmy basin]

i never spent too much time with ed22519 as i do now lol

[upbeat anchor]

#github-notifications message lollll

[lunar root]

https://tenor.com/view/dramaindio-gif-22575789

[vestal fractal]

Lovely 🥀

Some can be removed since they're used just in one place, but there's still a benefit of grouping

I don't think this would be any overhead

[upbeat anchor]

nice

[supple tartan]

Indian drama be like lol 😂

[scarlet wagon]

hwy

[ember pollen]

this shi is magical

it making me cry

[remote otter]

this the support server?

[zealous gate]

there's no support server
go to https://dis.gd/contact for general help

[remote otter]

Well I'm having trouble with my account and supports not helping me

[zealous gate]

reply to their email

[remote otter]

?

[zealous gate]

no one here can help you with account issues, make a support ticket and wait for their response or reply to their email if you aren't satisfied with their answer

[remote otter]

They said my account can't be recovered, I have to make a new account, sorry for your frustration, fyi please don't ban me I'm just seeking help and I can't change my email because it's deleted

[olive depot]

No one can help you here

[zealous gate]

then you have your answer, even if it's not the one you wanted

[remote otter]

alr mb just passing thru then, I'll leave

[olive depot]

I wonder how they even find "discord developers" server as a support server

[trim geode]

Common misconception. They see it as "Discord's Developers" adjacent

It's an understandable mistake.

[zealous gate]

not really, it happens in pretty much any official server. it has discord in the name and it's verified so it must be a place to get help

[trim geode]

It's completely reasonable for someone with zero experience in the space to assume a server named "Discord Developers" is a support server. annoying? yes...but still reasonable.

[zealous gate]

if only people read

[trim geode]

plus, you gotta remember...people are likely just googling basic stuff. in which the first results link these two.