Hmm. This is concerning. I just noticed that with MF running I get a very noticeable, entirely distracting stutter in the sim that hits every few seconds reliably. The moment I hit Stop the stutter goes away. Obviously something in my setup is doing this. Is this a known issue and is there a good way to track it down? My first thought is to just start disabling things until I isolate it.
#Curious Stutter
serene smelt
Gotta find this one as the sim is unplayable this way.
I tried unchecking each of my currently 61 entries during flight with Run on and that didn't impact it. Just hitting Stop instantly stops the stutters. Hit run and they're back.
serene smelt
More info. I created a new blank MCC file and if I Run that, no stutters so something in the "full" MCC for my CRJ is causing the stutters.
Interesting. I'm not seeing a stutter with the MCC running but the plane dark.
About to push back and I've now got a stutter. It's not as bad as before, but it's about every 6 seconds.
So I just hit Stop and, ask expected, it's like glass now. Smooth as can be. Run and 6 seconds.
Hardware here is decent. 3080ti, 32GB RAM, i7 8700K @4GHz.
gloomy cradle
With something weird as this, I would test by deleting first all outputs and see if the stutter disappears.
If it does, reload the file and delete the first half of outputs and check if stutters are still there, if so, reload and delete the second half.
Then reload the file and delete one fourth of the outputs and successively advance by deleting a smaller section until you can hopefully pinpoint which config is causing the problem.
Outputs are most likely the cause of problems, because their code executes with every sim cycle.
serene smelt
That helps. I assumed just unchecking them would do it, but apparently not somehow.
gloomy cradle
I am 90% sure that deactivated output configs keep running on the simulator side and Mobiflight simply ignores them while deactivated.
serene smelt
That would explain it.
serene smelt
I am a bit... shocked that the FS world has not come up with some tool to show you related processes and their hits on the sim.
gloomy cradle
I am a bit... shocked that the FS world has not come up with some tool to show y...
what are you referring to?
serene smelt
Some way to see what really is at the heart of stutters.
I just wiped the first half of the 11 Outputs and hopping into plane. I enjoyed a stuttering flight with all the stuff (well most anyway) working.
Now it's going to be strange to the the startup without any lights. hehe
Okay, so far zero stutters and I'm done programming the FMS which at this point prior I'd be having stutters. SO that leaves one of two options: The stutter is in the later 11 items or the stutter may not happen in the latter 11 and thus is some sort of more complex issues with number/combo of outputs.
serene smelt
And like all things FS, the easy path is out. No stutters with the latter 11 outputs.
That leaves me to wonder if I'm better off rebuilding the other 11 manually one at a time to see if it pops. MUST be an error or interaction that I'm not getting.
On a lark while in the cockpit I reloaded the full set and hit Run. Smooth.... Nothing. WTH.
serene smelt
New wrinkle. I walked away and came back and it's stuttering badly.
More testing to be done.
serene smelt
In the morning I'll back up and retest without MF (vanilla and with Lorby) and let it sit idle for a bit to see if it stutters. If not, then I'll load another empty MF setup, restart and go to the same checklist spot and then wait to see if that stutters. Need some sort of validation of data here.
serene smelt
Okay, Sanity Check. Ran a half-flight with NO entries in MF, but it's running. Zero issues. No studder. Yeah, I remember this feeling. This shows it's not JUST MF and something with my SIM or PC. At least not something obvious.
serene smelt
Sanity Check # 2. NO Output configs. Another half a flight and again, no stutters. So it sounds like it IS an Output config issue.
rapid thistle
you can first set up output vars for each of the gear vaiables but do nothing particular with them
that way you can see the values first
serene smelt
@rapid thistle I'm so new to this that I'm not sure I understand that completely. How will this help find the issue?
And thanks for helping!
rapid thistle
outputs have two parts
there is the simvar
that can be configured without anything else
then MobiFlight Connector window will show the value of the simvar ("simulator value" column)
you can then do stuff to that value with either compare, or with the Transform input field
but if you first just add the simvars there, reading those should be pretty low overhead unless there is something weird going on
you should see that the values show something sensible and there are no stutters
adter that you can define the stuff to output into leds
this should let you see where the stutters happen in the setup
serene smelt
@rapid thistle Ah, I'm still just learning about doing compares and such with these. I'll try to implement this as I go along and get a bit closer. I am actually enjoying all the "forced" flying to get to the bottom of this. I will not forget the route from Philly to Boston likely for years as a result.
KPHL PHILLY2, DITCH, LUIGI, HNNAH, ROBUC3/JKF, KBOS.
rapid thistle
yeah its like test flying a in-progress airplane 🙂
but basically you set up simvars in outputs and can see the values, then if needed, you manipulate the values in Transform
like
$ is the simvar value variable, if it is larger than 98, set value to 1, else set it to 0
this can also be made in Compare
but this is another way to do it
then if you configure a "display" on the display tab
the led or 7 segment display or LCD screen shows the value
a led lights up if the result of Transform is 1, it is off when it is 0
serene smelt
(I'm going to get my son to help set this one up. He's a LUA guy so it should help.
Meanwhile I did verify that there's virtually no stutter in my first 11 Outputs (Parking Brake LED, Master Warning LED, 5 of the 6 Gear outputs for red and green , Low Oil Pressure, and Master Power (thanks @nocturne moon ). May have had a rare blip or two. Nothing more. Still blown away by how much immersion MF is giving me. (I'm now looking at the one thing different from the rest in the rest of the last 11 and it's the combo of the AP selector knob and encoder combo. If that's it, I have no idea how to get around that.)
serene smelt
Okay, Stutters. All I did was add two outputs. 1, the last gear entry for the Gear Nose red light and my APU Running light. I'll be shocked if it's that.
I also find it impossible to believe that it's some sort of "stacking weight" issue, ie, reaching a point of too much for the sim to handle as I'm at 61 total entries and others have hundreds.
opaque smelt
how many outputs do you have?
MF reads only 30 at a time... do you have anything complex as code for the outputs?
output sim vars are evaluated on every frame and if there is a change a message is sent to MF.
The routine itself is optimized but MF can't prevent you from putting in code that might be causing issues
serene smelt
@opaque smelt Literally just 22. It doesn't make sense. I'd say 80-90% of my code came with Neil and Jaime's help so I doubt it's a problem other than my somehow making a bad mistake with it, but they work. Is there some other way to track what code in my MF setup is causing longer delays (sorry, I really don't yet know how this all works).
Most of my outputs are extremely basic because I really don't yet know much in the way of syntax and power tricks, etc. The most complex code I have you'll easily grasp as it's the code to control the Bravo AP mode selector (on the left of the AP) and the encoder dial (on the right of the AP). Regardless of my bad luck, thank you so much for taking the time to ask. I greatly appreciate it.
One question on what you said. What happens if I go over 30 outputs? I still have at least about 6 LEDs to enable on the Bravo which puts me darned close.
It's just SO frustrating because it is unplayable when stuttering.
serene smelt
Also wondering if I might benefit from recreating all my ouputs (and inputs) over from scratch just in case some sort of conflict is happening that I can't see.
opaque smelt
One question on what you said. What happens if I go over 30 outputs? I still hav...
they are updated in groups of 30 on each frame, the first 30 first frame, next 30 next frame and so on
that keeps the processing load down but you would not notice a difference
opaque smelt
Also wondering if I might benefit from recreating all my ouputs (and inputs) ove...
that sounds complicated
try to pin it down by disabling parts of it like you did
are you using developer mode in MsFS2020?
close the console window there... just in case
serene smelt
No developer mode.
The concerning part is that the latest stutter test didn't have that set of Outputs in the group I was testing. That's what's concerning. I had a flawless flight with the first half and then added just two more Outputs (one Gear indicator light and one APU ON light. Niether much of a big deal. I did mainly end up using moslly non-generic simvars. Wondering if I'd do a bit better relying on more generic simvars where possible. Not sure that would make a difference.
gloomy cradle
Just in case, don't ever leave Mobiflight running in logging mode. Activate logging only when needed.
opaque smelt
The concerning part is that the latest stutter test didn't have that set of Outp...
might not have to do anything with Mobiflight at all. Inputs are not constantly evaluated, if anything then it should be related to outputs
serene smelt
@gloomy cradle mentioned a "no-no" when using the Copy event feature and I'm wondering if I might have some issue there as well. I doubt it, but then again, still not clear on how all this works under the hood.
serene smelt
@opaque smelt Well, now THIS is oddly interesting. I kept considering the situation where I have zero stutters with the first 11 Outputs. I've now done 6 flights that way and they never show up. I have also done 4 flights with just the next two added (the last gear output and the APU light) and it always stutters. So, even though it seemed.... HIGHLY unlikely, I modified the APU Output from using the Aerosoft APU Preset to instead use the MS "APU GENERATOR ACTIVE" preset and I'm now flying with zero stutters with these 13 (again of 22) Outputs. Could it really be that simple???? Next up is adding back in the remaining 9 to see if things stay solid.
Still concerned this might just be some sort of coincidence, but I've tried it more than a few times.
serene smelt
I will point out that @nocturne moon and @gloomy cradle both mentioned trying to use generics where possible. Time to start transitioning to that approach.
opaque smelt
great you found something!
i wonder how the code looks like. Can you post it here or the link to hubhop?
serene smelt
@opaque smelt It was simple, and so far I'm doing another test flight with the FULL set of outputs and if there is a stutter at all, at least so far, it may be one every couple of minutes (so maybe another aerosoft lvar?).
That was it.
Remove that and seemingly all good here. Does that make ANY sense?
opaque smelt
I wonder why. No, it doesn't 😄
I would have not expected a single l-var to be the problem
serene smelt
While testing this. I rebooted after every test session, which reset everything to baseline.
I tested that lvar four different times and all four times I had stutters.
FWIW, I owned the largest game testing company in the industry for two decades (sold it back before the new millennium) so I've seen some screwy stuff, but this is UP there. My gut says it can't be the cause, but I also can't find anything else to explain the test outcomes.
opaque smelt
do the values vary much?
rapid thistle
@unkempt kelp has the CRJ, maybe he can share his experiences with it tomorrow, whether there are stutters for him
serene smelt
So glad to hear I'm not the only CRJ user.
unkempt kelp
<@711279614475108452> has the CRJ, maybe he can share his experiences with it to...
Hi @rapid thistle and @serene smelt i confirm i have the CRJ but is very long time i not "fly" with this plane.
I haven't used it since Fenix and PMDG came out but I can check the above tomorrow morning.
Ciao
serene smelt
@unkempt kelp Thanks for the reply.
Just a quick note that so far things are still holding with problems and I've since added more outputs.
Don't get too happy @nocturne moon I still have three or four outputs to get some help with as I'm still not quite grasping simvar syntax. The doc feels more like a programmer's doc than something for average mortals.
nocturne moon
well, it's an SDK so yes, it is for programmers 😄
serene smelt
Heheh. I used to be about ... a lifetime ago, but never much past the higher forms of BASIC.
80s mainly.
I was going to install Simvar Watcher, but don't really want to install the whole SDK for that one thing.,
nocturne moon
I've never used it
There's no need. The behaviours window in developer mode gives all the necessaryinfo
unkempt kelp
@serene smelt this thread is very long. Could you summarize what tests I could do with the CRJ and Mobiflight ?
I'm waiting. Ciao
gloomy cradle
<@317085849156190208> this thread is very long. Could you summarize what tests I...
Hello Eddi, can you please confirm if you have experienced any stuttering while flying the CRJ with Mobiflight? If so, how did you fix it.?
If you have not flown the CRJ in many months it would be good to fly it again to confirm if this might be an issue with more recent versions of Mobiflight.
serene smelt
@unkempt kelp I was fine with zero stutters for some time after starting to use MF. However, I had just started learning it so I had very few entries in my MCC. I kept adding new ones. Then I got hit with stutters about once every 3 to 6 seconds during running the checklist in the CRJ (usually about the time I finished programming the FMS). After doing a lot of tests where I eliminated half my Outputs and then adding some back in, the stutters returned when I added the APU Output that used the Aerosoft APU Preset. I flew several flights to verify this using standard testing practices to validate this finding. Several flights without it had no issues. Then as soon as I added it back in the stutters were there around midway through the checklist. I switched that output to instead use the MS "APU GENERATOR ACTIVE" preset and all the stutters have stopped and, so far, not returned.
unkempt kelp
<@711279614475108452> I was fine with zero stutters for some time after startin...
Great news at the end of your post.
For my part, today I resumed the CRJ after more than a year and I had to recreate the MF configuration from scratch as I have since changed Mega boards and various physical devices.
I did a quick test with the AVAILABLE APU LVAR and didn't notice any stuttering issues; i taxi the CRJ on Venice Airport taxiways (is a complex and heavy scenery).
Then I was busy by the hockey final for 4 and a half hours.
Tomorrow morning I will add other devices in the Mobiflight config and check if I have fluency problems.
My system has an i7-9700 cpu, an RTX3080 gpu, 64GB DDR4 and the main drive is a 2 Tera samsung m2 nvme 990.
serene smelt
You're a bit beefier than my system (i7-8700k), 3080TI, 32GB DDR4.
Thanks for doing this.
serene smelt
@unkempt kelp For reference, I have about 70 entries in my MCC file with just under 30 outputs (22 when I noticed the issue).
unkempt kelp
<@711279614475108452> For reference, I have about 70 entries in my MCC file with...
Hi @serene smelt
finally i completed the tests: i created a new Mobiflight configuration for the Aerosoft CRJ with 38 Outputs and 51 Inputs,
New because the ones I had date back over a year ago when I switched to the Airbus A320 Fenix and the 737 PMDG.
In the Outputs and Inputs I used the CRJ's own presets present in Hubhop including the Output of the AVAIABILITY APU LED which you have found generating stuttering.
I flew from Venice (complex scenario) and I can confirm that I did not encounter any kind of stuttering.
The FPS value remained constant around 50 with HIGH in the graphics settings.
(With Fenix and PMDG the average is 30-35 in flight and 23-28 on ground with custom scenery).
Even closing and reopening Mobiflight during the flight, I verified that it doesn't impact fluidity (in task manager, usage remains just over 0% with rare peaks of 2%).
As you can see in the images, the Outputs include:
Parking brake status
APU status LED
Warning buttons
Flight parameters display (SPEED, HDG, ALTITUDE, VS) and Flaps and Spoilers position
Status lights, signs, engines, deice
Autopilot status
If there is any other proof I can do please feel free to let me know.
Ciao
serene smelt
@unkempt kelp That seems like a very solid test so much appreciated (did you enjoy getting back in the CRJ?) so now it comes back to either my having done something terrible wrong with that output, or some strange anomaly that was persistent.
I'm just glad it's not the program as, to be honest, I was getting very worried that I'd be forced back to AAO.
On a flight right now from KDEN (Denver) to KDFW (Dallas) and it's pretty darned impressive and stutter-free. DEN was a bit ... slow with all the traffic there, but not bad.
unkempt kelp
<@711279614475108452> That seems like a very solid test so much appreciated (did...
Well, the CRJ is a basic aircraft that teaches many things but it is another level compared to Airbus or 737.
Of course when the Aerosoft CRJ came out it was the spearhead for MSFS, there was nothing on that level. Too bad it seems to me that it has been abandoned a bit by Aerosoft but it is the normal trend.
In particular I was no longer used to flying with throttle corrections after using the auto-throttles.
Otherwise very funny.
I point out that I used Mobiflight to configure the flap and spoiler levers, the Engines Start Stop switches, the Parking Brake and the Gear Lever of my Thrustmaster TCAQuadrant; I find Mobiflight much more efficient for configuring these devices.
Also, for the first time I really enjoyed using the "Scan For Input" button in Inputs configs.
(It's been a while since I "played with MF")
How did we live until today without Scan we who have generic panels?
Great @opaque smelt
Ciao
serene smelt
@unkempt kelp I'm hearing the CRJ is soon to get a major update. We'll see.