#RR14 - Ban cover aim glitches and boosts

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indigo dew
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not yet

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we don't know yet

willow warren
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if you want an analogy that includes boosts in question I think In4 vs Dein just today was a good one, in Dart In4 attempted the drop because he was behind and failed to incorrect execution, ended up losing because he failed it, could have forced pf if successful

quasi spoke
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i dont think we should ban on hypotheticals

indigo dew
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you don't need to argue for that, it's already allowed to be tested

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we decided to let it play out so we could see

twin dagger
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you should watch the match @indigo dew

indigo dew
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great map, shit for RR imo

quasi spoke
willow warren
twin dagger
median wedge
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Dartmoor is so fucking boring in rr

indigo dew
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but that specific example is really just a dartmoor issue

median wedge
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Only good thing about it is that it ends quickly

mellow terrace
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honestly just ban dartmoor entirely

median wedge
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But feels so cheap winning or loosing 2 points on that shitfest

indigo dew
median wedge
indigo dew
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it isn't fun to watch

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or play

median wedge
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Its only fun to watch if both players are rookies and dont know the strats

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So they just do improv

indigo dew
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^

median wedge
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Then its fun

dusky bluff
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true

mellow terrace
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every spin is stupidly optimized there's not even a question to the strat

dusky bluff
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I love watching rookies play because it's actual improv

mellow terrace
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we should ban all 1 target maps from rr it's just not very interesting i feel

willow warren
median wedge
twin dagger
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we should have forced starts on Dartmoor 🙂

dusky bluff
median wedge
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I just skill issue now on some little shit like alexa walking faster or slower than needed

willow warren
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rookies playing being actual improv

twin dagger
willow warren
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sure if they have never tried roulette before they play in matches but just because you're a rookie doesn't mean all you do in matches is improv

dusky bluff
willow warren
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yeah but not all rookies do that

dusky bluff
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by rookie I'm implying actually a rookie at the game

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not "roulette rookie" or whatever

twin dagger
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oh oki

median wedge
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Most rookies now know the strats and meta from what ive seen

dusky bluff
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obviously those titles are meaningless af lol

median wedge
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Its rare to see a rookie actually play a roulette spin for one of the first times on that map

twin dagger
willow warren
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going this way just strays again further from the actual argument of this thread but yeah

dusky bluff
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I've seen many that don't and many returning that just seem to have fun rather than coming in knowing every damn thing

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I can make it connect tbh

median wedge
dusky bluff
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I'd love to see more rookies coming in just for fun rather than being dead concerned about whether they can compete

willow warren
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but then if you come in to play and have fun and not care about knowing everything why do you insist on taking away something like cover aim tech from those who do know and are able to do it

dusky bluff
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glitches kind of add to that competitive disadvantage for any rookies

heady sky
dusky bluff
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and in a way that isn't just game knowledge

heady sky
willow warren
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if you want to be competitive I think at this point the expectation is you are knowledgeable about strategies and tech

median wedge
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@willow warren can we just play counter strike on map 3 instead of having to load up dartmoor

dusky bluff
median wedge
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Ill let you win the match if you let me do a live waterfall boost by getting to map 5

heady sky
indigo dew
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Nah he's making a good point

dusky bluff
indigo dew
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A game with no rules isn't a game

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It's just two people sitting

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You need rules to a game to actually have a goal

heady sky
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That's not what I'm saying SAD

dusky bluff
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I think the point is, unintentionally, you are

heady sky
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I see spin. I go fast. That's fun for me

dusky bluff
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okay, it's great for you to that then in your playtime

heady sky
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What?

dusky bluff
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you don't have to play roulette only by RR rules if you don't play in RR, but this discussion is about the mode that a large amount of people have to play together

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so what's fun for you is a very minor part of any discussion

heady sky
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Yeah and that's totally fair, but my voice is also valid in this conversation. And that's my 2 cents. The rules of roulette for me is to complete the spin. That's it. I like playing roulette and I play a fair bit and host my own tournaments without these restrictions. Because I find it more fun. And I don't think im alone with that belief

dusky bluff
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and you're right, that's the rules of roulette... RR has to have more rules though to make the tournament fair and fun for everyone participating

heady sky
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I do think that we should make an even playing field when it comes to pc v console. Sucks i can't use peacock but I get that it has some advantages.

I think the fun part for most is really just the random kill conditions aspect.

dusky bluff
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for sure, and I'd personally love to see more variants... Meme's improv is a cool alternative and RL... well it's just RR (but flexible) but it theoretically doesn't have to be... heck there they could have a couple of categories people could choose to match with other players who do/don't use glitches etc.

heady sky
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Well people host their own tournaments for that I think

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Like I do

dusky bluff
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if you like go fast then stuff like the dailies and some of the random roulette comps were great as everyone could just do spins how they wanted, optimise IGT and play in ways they wouldn't otherwise

wind ice
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stuff like the dailies
ModCheck

indigo dew
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I wish those were still around

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I missed all of them

dusky bluff
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I mean anyone can post one any day

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the dailies were inside us all along

delicate sky
# heady sky Well people host their own tournaments for that I think

You realize that all these particle boost you yapping about and most cover aim glitches are usable like in 10 or even 5% of spins like on few maps, and if you weren't speedrunning this game outside of roulette you wouldnt even care about it. And I do speedrun this game too and probably you know how much you need to restart to get a decent run with boosting and now you implement this knowledge to a given spin when you are racing another player. Not only you need to think of how you will isolate targets but also think of one of 10 possible particle boosts and if you will fail it your run is done. I think we should just to stick what are rules for now and make a public pole after this rr and collect data how players and viewers of rr feel about all these.

twin dagger
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quati is so based

median wedge
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I can live with both outcomes of that pole so long its just consistent

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As in you ban all of it or allow all of it

indigo dew
warm hamlet
glad jasper
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allow wemod

somber willow
dusky bluff
warm hamlet
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the wording can be refined but yeah this even allows boosting as long as that doesn't massively differ from the "normal" routing, it is completely up to the player if they want to learn boosting to save like 5s, but that is well within the range of possibility of losing the lead to a "normal" player if they somehow didn't get it first try

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risk/reward kinda thing

true palm
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sorry everyone for missing the grenade yesterday which prompted me to replan and try the drop

ionic nebula
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Yeah this is all your fault Madge

true palm
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i would also like to deny the "in4 didnt practice" allegations, i did get it yesterday like once in every 2-3 attempts LUL

honest axle
somber willow
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Apricope spitting straight facts

wispy nacelle
young helm
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Sounds reasonable

true palm
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I say aye

wispy nacelle
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all agreed? 🔨 you've been found guilty and will be promptly dealt with

median wedge
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take him out back.

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hes gonna go to a farm upstate

warped ocean
indigo dew
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didn't even know that data core drop existed tbh

wind ice
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and its really cool NM_peepoHappy

indigo dew
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it is definitely cool, that is for sure

next condor
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Is that the redfox one?

wind ice
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no

quasi spoke
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from game makers will hate me afaik

wispy nacelle
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ye

glad jasper
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95% of drop is from him lmao

next condor
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Game makers will hate me

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More like Koats Pigi and Gorg will Hate Me

median wedge
warped ocean
indigo dew
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Cover aim bad: discuss

dusky bluff
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well cover aim is rarely the best way to take a shot but in combat situations I guess it's nice to have

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good for getting 47 into consistent positions for other things tho

somber willow
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Use your admin power koats

indigo dew
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Lol I'm in the minority usually

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I usually have unpopular opinions

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I'd have banned cover aim immediately before the tourney started if it were up to me

warped ocean
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Id ban it cuz idk what it is

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Well ik what it is

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Just not how its done

somber willow
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Half of these people don’t even play rr bruh

IMG_6022.png
indigo dew
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Which is why the survey will be more accurate

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Will go to RR participants

dusky bluff
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speed runners surely can't mob that also

indigo dew
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Or at least have a spilt of RR participants vs not

heady sky
indigo dew
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I just don't want to see cover aim become required to be competitive on some maps because it creates such a crazy timesave

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Why learn the fastest ways through the map if you can skip it all

wind ice
earnest idol
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counterpoint, it makes chong so much more enjoyable

wind ice
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which puts it at 11-11

indigo dew
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If you can skip the learning and just cover aim, it becomes stale

somber willow
indigo dew
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And mirror matches are more likely

wind ice
somber willow
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Ah

wind ice
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besides can we really call what gorg does "playing roulette"

warped ocean
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Skrafi

warped ocean
somber willow
wind ice
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since the navigation is always easy

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this just splits the good players from the not as good players

indigo dew
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Without cover aim

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Lmao

dusky bluff
indigo dew
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I had someone tell me that the apartment smuggle is useless

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Literally the fastest way up from cook start is apartments

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And fastest way down to restaurant too

wind ice
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dont think so

indigo dew
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It is

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But ok

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And there's a big smuggle on the way

earnest idol
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It's the fastest for a large smuggle, but not the fastest normal way

indigo dew
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How so

honest axle
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ladder and roof is quicker

earnest idol
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^

indigo dew
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Which ladder?

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By homeless?

dusky bluff
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by the cooks I'm guessing

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the one that goes straight up

honest axle
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yeah

indigo dew
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It most certainly is not

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That's doubling back hard

wind ice
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go test it

indigo dew
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I will when I get on a bit later

dusky bluff
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would it be faster to start riverside and grab cook then?

indigo dew
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^

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Would have to be

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If they are correct

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Which means everyone starting cook is wasting time

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Because riverside to cooks disguise is shorter than cook start to ladders

earnest idol
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not necessarily, as you'd be using a loadout slot or would need to spend time hiding the bodies

indigo dew
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Only would be bad if you had smg + sniper or something

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Even then it'd be fine

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Because smuggle

wind ice
indigo dew
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It's a shorter distance

wind ice
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get in the game and play it

indigo dew
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Bro I've spent more time in that map than most people you don't have to tell me

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Play a contract

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Like wdym

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You can't really think it's faster from cook to ladder than suit to ladder

dusky bluff
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well you'd have to stop a bit to actually grab the cook

indigo dew
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It's at minimum the same

earnest idol
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We aren't saying it's faster

indigo dew
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Scruffy just said it is same or suit is slower

wind ice
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its 2s faster if you choose to use 2 tranqs

indigo dew
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So yes, you are lmao

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So essentially the same

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2s is negligible

wind ice
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2 tranqs is not

indigo bison
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koats pls man drop your fkin ego

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"ive spent more time in game than anyone"

indigo dew
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Nice quotes

indigo bison
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you can forget things its ok

indigo dew
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Not what I said

spice plank
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Gentleman’s bet winner of rr13 decides scruffy

wind ice
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fair

indigo dew
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Which is exactly what was going on

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I should specify in a roulette context

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Not a speedrun context

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Because someone will jump on that in this channel

dusky bluff
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if going up from cook via the ladder, how do you deal with the locked doors into Hush's place?

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seems faster with crowbar/smg/etc. handy

indigo bison
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think its crowbar yeah

wind ice
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crowbar

dusky bluff
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if having to climb into the room then it'd be slower

indigo bison
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but chong isnt really as linear as A to B takes X long

wind ice
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if its a super loadout tight spin then apartment way is better

indigo dew
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@wind ice so i just tested it

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it's within 2s, and if you grab smuggle your way up they are identical

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so i don't wanna hear about an ego

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it's just factual

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@indigo bison

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if you're gonna be rude like that, at least be right

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is all im saying

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and like i said, apartments has a big smuggle, making it useful for more spins

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don't know why i had to get on and retest that to prove it since i did that in rr4

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literally 9 RRs ago

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like come on man

indigo bison
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scroll through this discord when youre not around, 90% less arguments go on

indigo dew
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but i wasn't trying to argue

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i stated something that was factually correct

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and you said i had an ego

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how is that not your fault

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i said apartments is the fastest way up

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and scruffy said it isn't

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and it's exactly the same as the other way up

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within 2s

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and that's with agility actions on the apartment side

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you can speed it up with explosives

wind ice
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maybe i'm doing something wrong but apartment was 10s slower for me

indigo dew
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and you were rude

dusky bluff
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actually indeed is within 2s even with crowbar

indigo dew
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ill admit i was rude as well @indigo bison and i did get heated

dusky bluff
indigo dew
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but you did too my man

indigo dew
wind ice
indigo dew
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because i tested it literally 2 years ago

wind ice
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i assume you did triple shot?

indigo dew
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i can record if we have to go there

dusky bluff
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yeah there's a nice spot you can do it from on the stairs up

indigo dew
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nah you can clibm

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climb

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you get to keypad at 1:02 with apartment

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at 1:00 with ladders

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ladder*

dusky bluff
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if you get within 2s with climbing then it should be even faster with triple shot?

indigo dew
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and if you grab smuggle on rooftop, you lose 2s

indigo dew
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if you can find one

dusky bluff
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I'll show my comparison, I found a good one pretty quick

wind ice
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although my keypad isnt that slow

dusky bluff
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will note with the non appts route I had some extra trouble with the researcher 🤔

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just sync'd them to the time of entering the keypad

median wedge
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dont ban them but dont keep them in either

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.....

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ignore if you agree

quasi spoke
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feel like syncing to load in would make more sense

dusky bluff
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not tracking real time

wind ice
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cool triple shot

quasi spoke
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yeah i did that triple shot in my match with obs, very nice

dusky bluff
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idk how consistent those researcher positions are when approaching from either side but the appts one feels much nicer... getting there is a bit more technical but having the smuggle on the way is great of course

quasi spoke
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so its settled? we are banning ladder route :D

dusky bluff
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idk what this has to do with cover aim thinking about it lol

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unless there's a cover aim to get up

quasi spoke
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not yet kappa

warm hamlet
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cover aim subdue hyperboost violin breacher

dusky bluff
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that's how you unlock the mars level

twin dagger
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survey's out, vote wisely SALUTEES

image.png
warped ocean
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Just bring back particle boosts

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And ban those cover aim shenanigans

twin dagger
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reject modernity, embrace tradition

dusky bluff
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violin hyperboosts only

indigo bison
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im sorry but even voting for option 4 is beyond a joke

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how is berlin and sapi the same

wind ice
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berlin drop and virus drop in the same category is crazy

indigo bison
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how is sapi OK

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its just idiocy

median wedge
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I voted to unban everything

twin dagger
dusky bluff
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I wouldn't lump Berlin and Sapi in together personally. Sapi is just one prompt whereas Berlin is a fucky process of multiple actions (similar to a cover aim) that is FPS dependent

twin dagger
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i just think the sapi drop is different

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oh its THIS berlin drop

median wedge
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Drops dependant on hardware are cringe

twin dagger
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yeah its not the same

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i only agree for sapi drop then, i'll write that down

indigo bison
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make sure you write t its ok cos its easy

twin dagger
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thats not why i think the sapi drop is okay

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but thanks moo

spice plank
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Moo with the fallacies again smh

dusky bluff
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now time to spend way too much of my time finding what I already know exists - the part of the Sapi brick which has a drop point explicitly created at that ledge

indigo bison
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its combining one action with another to create an unintended outcome. maybe im a moron, but thats the exact same as throwing a muffin and running on it, or taking cover and aiming in

dusky bluff
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as I just tried to hint, I believe it's actually an "intended" outcome

spice plank
dusky bluff
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like the drop point is literally designed to be there, it's just bugged by being in conflict with the drop to hang, and the conflict is resolved by aiming

spice plank
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And only "bad" players should want boosts banned, its an unfair thing to say

dusky bluff
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not that sapi drop being banned would be the end of the world anyway

twin dagger
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yeah, dont call phanium bad

dusky bluff
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weird hill to die on tbh, Sapi drop existing or not makes basically no difference

spice plank
twin dagger
indigo bison
median wedge
indigo bison
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im aware some think that they will take over the whole rr scene and want i banned out of fear

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but there is many who will vote ban cos they dont wanna learn it and wanna bring people down to their level in an easy cop out

dusky bluff
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one could say that about banned conditions

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but that's a bad faith argument IMO

median wedge
wind ice
spice plank
indigo bison
twin dagger
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im so glad i revived this thread PepePopcorn

dusky bluff
indigo bison
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nah youre right

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100% they could and will

dusky bluff
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maybe but it's not constructive to make that an argument for anything

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it's a bad faith argument IMO

indigo bison
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its not constructive to be honest?

ionic nebula
# indigo bison how is berlin and sapi the same

Of course they arent the same, but from a rules perspective its not about the impact of them, but how you trigger them. Both are done by pressing a prompt, I dont really see how you could distinguish these in a meaningful consistent way personally.

indigo bison
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yh i know, cos its trying to justify something impossible i think

dusky bluff
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I think points to that have already been raised here

indigo bison
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i dno how you can say sapi is OK and the rest arent tbh

spice plank
indigo bison
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nah its still an abritrary line you can literally "boost" on accident

twin dagger
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everything's arbitrary

indigo bison
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some are boosts and some are just walking up terrain

dusky bluff
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  1. it's not FPS dependent
  2. it's one action rather than multiple consecutive ones to get 47 in a glitched state
  3. the drop point is probably intended to be there, just bugged... I'll work on trying to find the proof if I really have to
spice plank
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"All intentional boosting or dropping to avoid traversal of the map is prohibited"

indigo bison
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i aimed in on accident i swear

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lol

dusky bluff
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tbh it's such muscle memory it'd be hard not to do by accident by now lol

young helm
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You'd need a really good lawyer to be able to claim you cover boosted on accident :P
yes, you referred to sapi drop, I know

twin dagger
wind ice
dusky bluff
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it's the only drop I'd say people would actually have to try hard to remember not to do

twin dagger
spice plank
mellow terrace
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Marra chair drop my beloved

dusky bluff
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there is another "skipped drop" in Berlin - I have no idea how it works but if you drop down from a higher point in the right way, you jump over a lower drop point, whereas if you get unlucky, you jump down and have to drop again
it's clearly not "glitching" though lol

mellow terrace
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Yes I'm not sure I think it's just dependent on your position

indigo bison
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id argue it is a glitch

dusky bluff
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yeah same, I've tried to do it intentionally and never could... maybe that's skill issue on my part but it feels more down to the game

indigo bison
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just cos its small doesnt mean its not an unintended outcome

dusky bluff
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I wouldn't be able to avoid it if I tried

indigo bison
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they put that box there to mantle on

mellow terrace
spice plank
dusky bluff
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it would help if people could establish the difference between a "glitch" and "glitching"

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glitches in the game can happen all the time... you could call GRB a glitch... you could have visual glitches whenever... none of these are "glitching" though which is purposeful intent on the player's part to exploit a glitch for benefit

indigo bison
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as per that drop tho i do intentionally stand back and walk before i drop to save them 3s

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so i am glitching it

dusky bluff
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you intentionally do a lot of things to save time, doesn't make everything we do in Hitman glitching though

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probably one of these, gonna be real fun trying to pin down which kappa

image.png
mellow terrace
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Idk any other drain pipe in the cave so I'd assume yeah

dusky bluff
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yeah it's the 9 different possible ledges that are the question... my guess is 2 of them will occupy the same space, one allowing drop to hang, one allowing a jump down

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it's the only explanation that makes sense to me, since no other drop anywhere in any level we know of works like it, thus the level designers must have added it to that one particular place

indigo bison
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isnt arguing the ledge drop is there the same as arguing particles can be walked on intentionally?

dusky bluff
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arguing that the level designers added a spot to drop down from there is not the same as arguing that the game designers added particles to get over railings, if that's what you're suggesting

wind ice
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isnt the prompt on sapi just "climb down" not drop?

ionic nebula
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Why would it even be relevant if its intended or not?

dusky bluff
dusky bluff
# ionic nebula Why would it even be relevant if its intended or not?

I honestly can't say what logic people want to base the decisions of whether they should be allowed or not on... I feel having more facts to work off could be more constructive than endless opinionated debating. Maybe not though... it would be great to know for sure because trying to get to the bottom of it will take some effort and I would be happy to not do it if it's not going to help at all.

ionic nebula
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I personally dont think what is intended is a factor at all, but I cant tell you if I speak for the majority there or not

dusky bluff
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If something in the game is intended, I'm not sure why anyone would want to ban it

wispy nacelle
median wedge
quasi spoke
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i dont really get why boosts with prompts would get separated out? they arent any breaking the game any less than cover aims. feels like its just to keep the boosts people are used to

dusky bluff
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just had to set a 'true' to 'false' to disable the hang

quasi spoke
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is this an argument to say its intended or just showing cause its cool?

dusky bluff
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no arguments, I'm sick of arguments... this is just proving my theory that the developers have explicitly ('intentionally' or not) added two ways to go down, and that aiming just prevents the 'hang' one from happening as that takes priority

quasi spoke
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okay, but i do agree with yannini that intention shouldnt be considered. especially given particle boosts are intended to be in the game

dusky bluff
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I don't necessarily agree that intention shouldn't be considered (what should we consider, anyway?)... I feel like the only reason we don't argue about every single feature in the game largely comes down to the fact most are clearly intended parts of the gameplay experience. I also think it's a massive oversimplification to say that particle boosts are intended to be in the game. As a developer, I can say from experience that something can make its way into software unintentionally often and be a "happy accident" or even just an acceptable quirk, so I also don't think "unintended" things should necessarily be automatically considered bad either.

Muffin boosts were clearly unintended, but enough players and content consumers have enjoyed it enough for IOI to presumably know that patching it out isn't in their best interest (or if they didn't, they certainly found out after they did exactly that). I don't think that magically makes it intended. It's still an exploit of the most obvious kind, and in being able to take you OOB fits the classic definition of 'glitching' in speed running terms. This drop is very likely also unintended, in the same way as the sinks that lure NPCs across the map. They both seem to be minor development errors (of which Hitman has many that we take advantage of like they're nothing, e.g. luring NPCs upstairs or down based on sound zones being weird). It's definitely in the category of things not above questioning, whereas I don't think intended things should ever be questioned.

spice plank
twin dagger
dusky bluff
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great, the tactic worked

twin dagger
#

roulette players notoriously can't read kappa

dusky bluff
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you can say anything you want so long as you pad it out enough kappa

spice plank
#

How can you address intent of ioi?

dusky bluff
#

what

spice plank
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“It's definitely in the category of things not above questioning, whereas I don't think intended things should ever be questioned.”

dusky bluff
#

do you think firing a weapon could ever possibly be considered unintended?

spice plank
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Yes but when referring to the sapi and Berlin boost which we are talking about the intent of ioi is a gray area

dusky bluff
#

I literally said that in the text you refused to read

quasi spoke
# dusky bluff I don't necessarily agree that intention shouldn't be considered (what _should_ ...

i will agree that intended things shouldnt be questioned, but i dont think there is any drop that is intended by ioi, so it doesnt really come into play here. “what should we consider” i think we should consider what it fair to all players. things that are known to be majorly fps related (i say majorly cause this whole game is fps/hardware affected lol) shouldnt be permitted. I also think we should consider what is fun for players and viewers, as thats why were do what we do. yes its subjective but thats why we do votes and talk abt this stuff

dusky bluff
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majorly fps related is probably as hard to quantify as intention lol, as well as at what point you consider it 'major', but I can get behind that too... I also happen to believe that all drops are at least a little FPS related, because you're usually trying to manipulate 47's position up or down while necessarily fighting gravity (or in some cases depending on it), and gravity is known to be FPS related... the only exception being the sapi drop 😛 (though maybe how fast you fall after initiating it, along with any jump down initiated by the drop button, is FPS related)

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players have reported completely different experiences in performing most drops, which could be due to FPS... it could also be due to "skill issue"... but if you're saying we should consider what is fair to all players, then surely it's most fair to not have anything that enters glitch territory that is literally reported to be more/less difficult from player to player

median wedge
quasi spoke
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i didnt mean to say fps related stuff had anything to do with intention, sorry if it sounded like that. and major stuff i consider things like hyper boosts, i believe subdue boosts too. if something is do to skill issue, which it seems cover aims mostly are as ive tried a few with 30fps vsync and done them fine, then it should be allowed. skill issue is not a reason to ban things, yeah it gives an advantage buts its because the person who can boost is better at it

heady sky
dusky bluff
# quasi spoke i didnt mean to say fps related stuff had anything to do with intention, sorry i...

See, I think that's where at least much of the issue lies... I don't think many players would consider it "fair" to be told "skill issue" over something that isn't even supposed to be part of the actual game (which is where we get back into intention sadly).
I think many players who enjoy the game want to be tested on their skill in the game, not in exploiting the game in unintended glitchy ways. This is why I find it hard to not talk about intention in this discussion...

#

And obviously another aspect, skill aside, may be that some really just don't want it to be a part of the gameplay, thus don't want to feel 'forced' into it to compete.

indigo dew
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🍿

dusky bluff
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you came at a bad time, discussion feels relatively drama free right now which is nice

quasi spoke
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we will start insulting each other for you koats <3

wind ice
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your profile picture isnt even that cute luke

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sorry i cant do this

quasi spoke
#

you tried your best hugg

median wedge
#

Luke you kinda smell even tho i agree with you in this

mellow terrace
median wedge
mellow terrace
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I just wanted to show my favorite gif

quasi spoke
# dusky bluff See, I think that's where at least much of the issue lies... I don't think many ...

i think this is where we cant really change each others minds. i see rr as a speedrun comp, and to me speedruns are going to use exploits / glitches and stuff. i know you dont agree with that, and may not agree on rr being a speedrun comp as well. my main want is that we can see times and strats improve, while still staying fun for the viewer and player. and im sure thats what most people want too, but we just all might have different ways we would like to get there. feel like im rambling now lol so hopefully this makes sense

delicate sky
spice plank
dusky bluff
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And I've mentioned it before but... if some people see RR as a speed run comp, and some see it as more of a challenge run comp (I'd argue roulette at its core is a challenge run mode, I mean that's literally how it was originally conceived)... then maybe there ought to just be two different competitions or brackets or whatever.

quasi spoke
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yeah thats true

dusky bluff
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We used to have two brackets for console/PC... wouldn't be inconceivable to have two brackets with/without exploits/glitches, then the winners can even face each other at the end maybe (then the argument comes whether that match should have exploits/glitches lol).

But I will say that... surely having glitches basically be mandatory for competition will hurt people who dislike glitches a lot more than not having glitches allowed will hurt people who like them. Forcing people to play with glitches to compete may put them off of the competition completely (or discourage potential new players). I wouldn't say that not having a few toys to play with, in a mode where the majority of the gameplay doesn't revolve around them, would be as harmful to people who enjoy playing that way.

quasi spoke
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my yeah thats true was to your first message, not abt the brackets fyi. i think there are definitely solutions, but i dont think splitting brackets is a good one, its a small community as is and we dont need that kind of division

dusky bluff
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Well I believe that division will still happen if you force people to need to play with glitches or not compete... but instead of splitting the community down the middle, it will just see the community get at least a little smaller

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Maybe some players will leave if boosts are banned too? But I feel like that would be a move more out of pettiness to be honest. Plus given that RR is already established around less boost filled gameplay by pure fact of them not existing or at least being as prominent in the past, it may feel like it's really the people in favour of boosts asking existing players to change or move aside in order to accomodate them.

indigo bison
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not gonna say i do dip if cover aims are gone but its gonna be a really sour pill i gotta swallow of players in "my" community removing the fun out of the game for me

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definetely lowers my motivation for the game by a lot

quasi spoke
twin dagger
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it also feels like, at that point, pushing a ban will drive more people away than leaving them as is would

warped ocean
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Just unban all non hardware dependant boosts

ionic nebula
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I can already see that this is gonna be the one topic with a near 50:50 split. Its so problematic cause you cant find a good compromise for this imo. For consistency it should be either all or nothing.
And you can argue for either side, but in the end it comes down to the way of how you view the gamemode of Roulette. I personally dont think this question even matters too much, most maps dont use boosts anyway, so hopefully it doesnt divide us a lot, however the outcome.

spice plank
warped ocean
mellow terrace
indigo bison
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Would be interesting to see what position each player finished and how many cover aims they did

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Only memorable moment I have for them is quat doing Dartmoor one perfectly to win

glad jasper
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how dare you forget about luke Chong

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he lost anyways though oof

dusky bluff
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actual amount of matches realistically won by use of boosts vs. the prospect of spending weeks of your life fighting your way through an entire tournament and winning without them, only to be beaten in the GF by the opponent using a single one

indigo bison
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lukes drop was fun to see, but he didnt use it correctly, (not a shade at my boy luke) its just a point of no1 knows how to effectively use them yet

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dartmoor is easy to apply it cos the map is so fkin linear

arctic pagoda
warped ocean
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Its bs

quasi spoke
indigo bison
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think you did it on bridge instead of right before the drop

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if you do it late as possible then you can KO her in the core

quasi spoke
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yeah i did shoot early, was just too excited i had a spin to do the drop, wasnt really thinking abt timing fu5haGiggle

indigo bison
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lmao

mellow terrace
# arctic pagoda what is the berlin drop??

The open window on the club roof goes down to an area with a ladder and when you vault on the side of the metal grate you just came down you can walk off the edge and fall to the bottom floor

next condor
#

the real question is why is phanium tenzin walter white

spice plank
indigo dew
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I know I'm being hindsight man, but you can shoot the wall to stop them both

quasi spoke
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yeah ik, but i was scared abt getting caught from behind or some dumb shit lol, was down in the match so did not want to risk anything

indigo dew
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i hate that feeling

viscid cliff
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paris is not mentioned, maybe some are still in the game

indigo bison
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only chong is relevant

viscid cliff
#

well, someone said this might not be about coveraims but we'll see what happens

earnest idol
#

As far as I see, boosts still work on newest update

indigo bison
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arcade and wrench drop on chong remain

wind ice
#

are servers still down

viscid cliff
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this says down

twin dagger
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they usually come back up at around 2 or 3

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CET

mellow terrace
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Maybe they're talking about the one by the free sniper?

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Doesn't seem like they're talking about cover aim specifically

indigo bison
indigo dew
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lmao did they fix like a visual aspect of the cover aim, but not the actual collision

indigo bison
#

wait maybe

#

the arcade drop felt differnt

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but still worked

indigo dew
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luhmao

indigo bison
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W company

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even theyre OK with it

indigo dew
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couldn't be incompetence

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must be a signature of approval Buffhey

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as an admin, i take this as IO endorsing cover aim as intended behavior

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will surely be in RR forever

indigo bison
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easy to chuck death zones where players are doing it if all you wanna do is stop it

indigo dew
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true

twin dagger
wispy nacelle
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ban it right now or else frote7Angry

glad jasper
wispy nacelle
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ban them

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and boosts

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NOW

earnest idol
green hawk
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RR13 is over btw, can't ban them here

somber willow
#

Channel Reindeer shall magically fix his xbox if they are removed and banned forever for an epic return to roulette rivaling.

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Now everyone who voted thumbsdown on this thread shall change to thumbsup because of my statement

median wedge
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Holy yappings

wispy nacelle
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RR14 - Ban cover aim glitches and boosts

vivid cradle
#

Here we go again

twin dagger
#

no

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the rules finally make sense 🙏🏼

wispy nacelle
somber willow
#

Get owned pigi

delicate sky
twin dagger
#

@heady sky do you feel betrayed ?

heady sky
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Boost awesome, cover aim awesome, mudshots awesome

twin dagger
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thanks @heady sky

heady sky
#

always

somber willow
#

Chandelier kum bukchoy

spice plank
median wedge
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Can we ban haven island and dartmoor

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Ignore if you agree

spice plank
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We should ban waterfall boost just for gorg

median wedge
#

Mods, stomp on his t4 vertibrae

somber willow
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We should just ban rocky

wispy nacelle
wispy nacelle
somber willow
#

Up’d my thumbs son

warped ocean
somber willow
#

Kum Boychuk

green hawk
#

False

warped ocean
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Ban

heady sky
somber willow
arctic pagoda
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I think the rules should be randomly generated just like how the spins are

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Ban cover aim glitches and boosts if fate says so

dusky bluff
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unban weapon fetch and bump lures on the same basis 😈

wind ice
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yes

spice plank
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No

indigo dew
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Ban everything

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👿

heady sky
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Ban Dartmoor

earnest idol
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I can get behind a full dartmoor ban

wispy nacelle
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ban joker yep hard agree

green hawk
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What maps are affected the most by the unban? Chongqing, Dartmoor, Paris?

wispy nacelle
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sapi maybe a bit

dusky bluff
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cover aims weren't previously banned not Chong or Dartmoor really

wind ice
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they might be talking about the particle boost unban

dusky bluff
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exactly

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Chong and Dart doesn't need (m)any particle boosts

warm hamlet
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ban boosts in rr15 and I'll join smugjoats

green hawk
# dusky bluff cover aims weren't previously banned not Chong or Dartmoor really

Yeah don't know why I phrased it that way, I think I was talking about boosts in general. I feel like coveraims have become more prominent this RR which sort of coincided with particles unban.
After all, pretty much everybody here seems to agree that rules regarding boosts should be consistent so that both particle and coveraim boosts are treated the same way (banned or unbanned).

dusky bluff
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The rules should be consistent, so if lures are unbanned, bump lures should be kappa

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actually not kappa, that is a good point ¯_(ツ)_/¯

median wedge