**HOW DO WE ADDRESS GvG & also Skramblegg Set**

[sullen salmon]

@white lantern for their note taking & consideration from the community.

---

• What makes GvG difficult?

• What makes GvG enjoyable?

• What would help scale back Skramblegg's meta defining presence in GvG without removing it's use in PvE content

(including PvP as that is not a Guild Roster and no Familiars share the possible 1:1 build capabilities to mimic 5x Skramblegg.GvG)

^ Do we limit the Revive interaction (regardless of having 1-5 users)?
^ Similar to having the Torch Set restricted to prevent 4-5 stacked bonus (which was... essentially immortality)

DISCUSS

[ionic fulcrum]

i just had a random silly idea what about a special wb that only can do it with guildies

and you can only use the sets myths that drops from that WB for gvg

so we dont have to worry about current set meta from normal gameplay

if they make new sets for that they should make it balance or we gonna have skramble 2.0 again

[hot tendon]

Seems like that there is always 'one set' that works best. The difference in Skram is that its an alt set most of the time meant for PVP/GVG. It's miles ahead of 'everyone wear perk/witchum for all content'.

Once it is balanced it will just be another set to take it's place and that will need to be 'looked at' and the cycle will continue. I don't mind Skram being looked at, but to be honest, it's an end game set at least.

[silk remnant]

I like the idea of limiting 1 set in gvg a lot allowing more strat to be cooking instead of “just witchum or skram it bro”

Make it so that only 1 piece of gear can be used in each guild team. No need to make it 4x2 4x1 work just fine

by limiting that we can at least make sure that ancient isn’t dominating since the guild have to choose between an extort, a dps ancient spd or a tank or a spd bait

[ionic fulcrum]

ye thats why i have that idea no matter what they do with skramble if they make it useless another set gonna be used and be the broken meta one

so making new special sets that only can be used for gvg and ofc make not able to use the "old" sets only just the new ones ( if u use the new sets for another content stats , effects wont work)

so they can nerf /balance those new sets without affecting the meta game since would be only used for gvg

[silk remnant]

actually people use skram for wb too

Like a lot of peep who uses skram band together to bully wb

[white canyon]

The game mode GvG is fine, but the design is really really bad, too many bad elements in GvG,
Then most players hate that event, and this kind of hatred cannot be reversed easily.

[silk remnant]

I guess still I want it to be 1 set per team tho so skram x4 is not possible

[white canyon]

the matching mechanism, the TS balancing, the effect of multi set and effect, etc., all those topic the designer are unqualify/uncapable to solve anyone of those issues

[silk remnant]

I thought you would just slap some if else statment or make some function to handle them problem

[white canyon]

GvG battles are too uncertain and random (for example, 2 full Skram sets team, the win or loss is totally random, the players interaction in GvG are not definitive to the results, this is a very frustrate situation to players), and there are few opportunities for players to intervene to change the result/situation. Most of the time, automatic mode and manual mode have no correlation with winning or losing.

[silk remnant]

i was talking about the coding problem , you know limiting the amount of set each guild can use in their gvg such and such

what piece of gear can be used in gvg

unless they dont wanna do that

[white canyon]

of course the full Skram set team with revive,

[silk remnant]

yea i want em gone for gvg

make strategy the main point of gvg by allowing only 1 set and or 1 peice of ancient gear only

[white canyon]

This coding difficulty is much higher than the server 13% issue

[silk remnant]

Nah I call cap

[dusk radish]

I won’t say it’s random when my win rate is 95%. across 1b points.

I do not selectively pick between players, just the one with the highest points.

But I agree that skram is the default go to, because of the way it is utilized; for Better or for worse

The main thing I would say is, instead of nerf, why not have a counter? Isn’t that how games are supposed to work.

[silk remnant]

i agreed

a simple counter to skram would bring in a new meta and give that new set a use

and also bring in new tier

i think its kinda like witchum before no? before pomp become a thing

wasnt pomp made to counter witchum?

anti revive when hit by a certain set incoming

maybe

[white canyon]

Yes, that is the exactly the case i want to say,
you are 95% win guy and how about the rest playes. Let me express it in a narrow sense, it maybe a guy that played with you 100 times and lose 95 times. Or you have play 100 times with 100 people, and you got win 95 times and bring 95 players sad lose and 5 players happy win. In a broad sense, 95% players are always lose do you think it is a good experience to the general player basis ?

[dusk radish]

Why does everyone have to have a good experience if you choose to not build the set that gives you the same win rate?

By pure hypothetical efficiency, would you be better off since you technically have a choice?

[white canyon]

because this is a zero-sum game. The victory is concentrated in a few people, and the majority of people are losing.

The people always win then they have no reason to participat this event because of the bad experience, and more deeply, why they still play this game if their experience are 95% most lose.

[dusk radish]

My point is, meta(s) will always be a thing in games. Or life. Because they work. There is an oft quoted “best” way to do things, but you also have a way of going the “off the beaten track”.

All I suggest, is to not hate the set. Rather, direct it at the variety of gameplay available.

[silk remnant]

id definetly join the meta if i have access to skram that is

but no sophar is definetly right

it encourage people to go to the latest point of the game

[white canyon]

but the situation is exactly as Sophar mentioned, 95% win in GvG, then it is a few people always win and most of general players are lose, which is a really bad experience to the general player basis.

[dusk radish]

If based on this, then you could also be hating on the p2w concept.

Because this also results (in most games) a disparity between general players and the big spenders.

I feel that games are competitive. And in such light, you’d always have some who wins and some who loses - For whatever myriad of reasons.

And for those who have a higher probability (albeit not crazy high like 95%), you will almost always have a meta, an outperforming class, a must have item.

[white canyon]

I am discussing GvG design topic in this thread 'HOW DO WE ADDRESS GvG & also Skramblegg Set' , I didn't mention anything about P2W here.

[dusk radish]

I’m all for changing multiple aspects of gvg, sets etc, don’t get me wrong.

But I would differentiate between a “everyone should have a fair chance of winning” vs “having an optimal gameplay”

[dusk radish]

It was a proxy and a parallel.

Wherein the main gripe was “overpowered and sick win rate therefore most players have a bad experience”

[white canyon]

That is the reason why this game is not increasing, there are too few new players in this game compared to before, because they are many people who share similar ideas as you in game that believing that overall Meta is good.

To me it is a simple logic that I will not play a game with a 95% failure rate. In the end, only the one who always wins is playing.

[dusk radish]

Perhaps the easiest answer would be to insert a “dummy NPC” where the win rate drastically improves while affording no points

Just for the sake of farming regen

[dusk radish]

The last statement makes no sense, factually.

Theoretically if everyone who wins, continues to play, and everyone who loses, drops out, there would only be 1 person left lol

[white canyon]

Hahaha, nvm, let's see

[silk remnant]

I see the problem now

We need new player

[gentle lodge]

One thing that would be cool would be to have changing affixs/debuffs each gvg.

The issue is it really wouldnt work with how bh events are done.

[sullen salmon]

Some sensible feedback & some garble tossed in. Good stuff, everyone. (The sensible feedback*)

[hot tendon]

If we want true 50/50 win lose, just have a coin toss instead of gear? Though would be nice rather than have counter-counter. Instead make it more like "rock paper scissors spock" where if there is something to counter Skram, then have 3-4 setups that beat one certain type? Rock beats spock and scissors etc.

[white lantern]

Yes! My main gripe with Skram is that right now it has a niche that can't be beaten in the game, and the Meta that it ensues is "whoops, all Skramblegg", and there's basically no counter to it except bringing your own Skramblegg

That's just a bad game experience, even from a theorycrafting standpoint

[white lantern]

Fun fact, these metas have happened across BH in the past. Most players are not willing to go out of their way for 1 or 2 specific gamemodes, specially if it involves gutting the rest

[hot tendon]

Was the same with perk and witchem

[white lantern]

Such as...having a meatshield tank

Yeap

Or 3xtort

[hot tendon]

Hah 3xt was brutal

"what just happened"

[white lantern]

3xtort is actually increadibly easy to counter with just raw , I know I use the same example everytime it's brought up, but that's how we balanced the first raid when 3xt popped up

When you put 95% of the power of your entire team into a giant nuke that hits only 1 target, you just need that first target to survive

Sadly, since stat distributions arent "armory-able", you'd need to have someone who runs all other content with 1-10-1 distribution

[dusk radish]

so T22 would have another set of gameplay yea? 🙃

[white lantern]

I mean, another reason why I think Skram needs a change (also bugfix incoming, ty Olivernoko) is that its niche is...pretty hard to counter

and any counter would be INCREDIBLY specific

Since most of the game doesn't use revives

So any anti-revive tech would be used exclusively against Skram

After the bugfix comes and you all have a GvG to try it out, we can take another pass in the future. Changing it from hitting the entire god damn team to hitting just 1 target would also bring it more in line in terms of counterplay

I doubt people would go out of their way to actually try to giga-meatshield it, but if you do, you'd be heavily rewarded in the matchup

[sullen salmon]

Soft locking a GvG match with all meat shields looking to counter play will be fun…

[silk remnant]

immortal tank confirm? ||im just kidding ||

[white lantern]

The fun part is that meatshield tanks are generally less tanky in the long run because heal is based off power, so I doubt that would even happen

They'd just be there to survive the burst coming from 3xtort/thisnewSkram

[gentle lodge]

Would it be possible to limit the amount of times you are able to revive in gvg?

• unsure if this would even “fix” it and not cause other problems elsewhere ontop of that but an idea that has popped up in my head none the less

[hot tendon]

I guess the question is, even if skram is fixed, does it mean a full guild of players who spent 2k+ on their accounts still wont win 95% of the time. (GG)

I don't know if there is a fix to that, nor not sure if there should be.. game needs money to keep the lights on.

It's part of the problem with being in 'wait and see' mode. A lot of the guilds collapsed into each other.

[gentle lodge]

Imo I dont think theres an issue with that, a full team of high end players with a good comp should be able to get very high win rate

I guess it comes down to what Lyme said with there being no counter at all to skram other than just more skram - Sure there are ways to make your team better vs skram but you still need alot of skram yourself

[hot tendon]

I've gotten owned pretty hard by that overheal build in full skram/perk

[gentle lodge]

Maybe even add some sort of set limit to gvg teams

then we cant just stack full skram

But even if these things happen we prob will just get pigeon holed into the next new meta

[white lantern]

I don't even think it's about money in this case. Part of the goal of an MMORPG is to be powerful, endgame players will always have an advantage, specially super elder players that have access to all of the tools in the game, money or no money.
The problem isn't GG's winrate, it's that Skram just lowers the quality of gameplay a bit too much imo.

[hot tendon]

If I die to someone over and over, I copy them lol. 🙂

[low basin]

Correct, where there is competition, there will be a meta, even more broadly, gaming in general will always have an "optimal path" for the most efficient/highest dps gameplay etc etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that though, but it does get tiring(as someone that doesn't care to min-max) but I get some people love it.

[gentle lodge]

Yeah I dont see any way around that either

[sullen salmon]

In a gaming industry where money > anything else …. I think we can all have a common sense agreement that that is how the industry is & it’s the reality you accept.

[static mirage]

Remove sets from GvG lets fist fight with legendary items like the good days

Remove revive mechanic from GvG as a useful suggestion

[gentle lodge]

When revived in GvG you now become Undead and deal reduced damage which stacks with each revive

[static mirage]

Skramble could trigger once per battle as well

[waxen dawn]

Add events to gvg one week combust is set to 0%, next evade is set to 0%, etc similar to d4's and old events of pvp where common and epics were better than mythics. Make it fun and force us to change up

[gentle lodge]

I thought of this but 1 week event isnt long enough for a system like that imo

Doesnt give enough time to theorycraft and go grind new stuff if needed

[static mirage]

Boosted mythics 3x power gvg would be funny would call for some cooking theorycrafting

[static mirage]

Can see that as well

The issue of thread is addressing gvg meta end of the day and tbh I haven’t played game for a while so will keep suggestions to myself as I am clueless in current meta

[waxen dawn]

Yeah, but theorycrafting leads to a meta and I think it would be more fun to remove that option and make it a chaotic race to find it in that week

[sullen salmon]

Yup - been suggested

[gentle lodge]

Hmm thats another way to look at it that i didnt think of

[rare gale]

Wanna remind people Skram was designed by Fyra who retired after the poor decision to end custom 1k cosmetics I’d like to see her memory still be honored. I use skram and it’s my fav set not surprised it’s too op.

[waxen dawn]

All good things must come to an end ducky ❤️

[rare gale]

We would love an update on if there will ever be a new tier. You’re worried about Skram we’re worried about if the game is at its end and not been announced.

Not trying to beat a dead horse it would just be helpful to the community to have some announcements ❤️

[waxen walrus]

GvG has a long history of being unfair and often oppressive, as we've seen with old-school Perkwarden, Unholy Trinity (Witchum+Clover+Soul Escarium), Ancient/Selfhit Tank, Extort, Pre-nerf Skyent, and now Skramblegg. Part of the problem is that Bit Heroes is a PvE game at its core, so it's understandable if some gear naturally performs better in PvP scenarios than others, as most gear isn't designed for PvP.

Skramblegg is just another example of a set that's too efficient. It's easy to farm and requires little investment to be absurdly effective -- just like Witchum. Skramblegg shines in PvP/GvG but really struggles in PvE. The reality of the set has strayed too far from what it was originally designed to be: a bait set that redirects damage to tanks. Instead, it's a ticking time bomb.

While reading through this thread, I've seen some things I agreed with. There will always be a set or meta that dominates GvG. With the update to runes/enchants, players are able to stack Barrier on builds, so I believe players have everything they need to counter Skramblegg;there's just not a lot of incentive to pursue it. Barrier tanks (largely Perkunas or Skyent) can hard counter Skramblegg. If Skramblegg 4/4 was changed to a single target rather than the whole team, Barrier wouldn't be all that effective, and thus, nothing would be able to prevent it.

[static mirage]

Tier 21 was oct 2023 I think for reference credits to proteus for keeping track of it don’t want to sidetrack to much from main thread topic

[sullen salmon]

Cannot conflate personal affection with game design errors that need to be addressed. The set isn’t being gutted. It’s being balanced and corrected to not be insufferable across the board.

A long overdue fix that needed to be made weeks after it’s launch

[static mirage]

There was a time from dps was king in gvg with pumpkin offensive pet it changes a lot but it’s hard to rebalance for just GvG without affecting overall gameplay in other areas

[waxen walrus]

Very true

[rare gale]

At least it’s better than the years of witch 🤣🤣🤣

[static mirage]

Not sure how feasible development wise it would be to have GvG have its own balancing if this was possible would make balancing sets a lot easier

[sullen salmon]

Fix the set >>> trying to rebalance entire game modes

[static mirage]

Don’t forget perkunas solo 1v9

[gentle lodge]

We gon get resilience gear now 👀

[rare gale]

Sure right after t22 and my duck mount I’ve been promised for years 👀🤣

I love this game and the community and I’m hopeful for the future.

[sullen salmon]

• 1 wave GvG
• Limit total turns (chess rules: 1/2 move - 1/2 move = 1 sequence)
• global buff or debuff applied to the content that is not known until GvG reset week:

“healing reduced by x%”
“stacks stop at 3”
“Swords deal x% more damage”
“per turn pets gain increased Proc% for GvG”
||you clicked||

• old PvP content had special weeks & the comments earlier suggesting something similar for GvG might be doable! If it’s a relatively “easy to do” push it would shake up GvG a little, but who knows.

[rare gale]

I did it was me ;^;

[indigo latch]

Can we do en passant?

[vale current]

Yeah but now in T21 PVP Venturer would maul it to death easily. Skramblegg is the current day ultra outlier as we now have cheap answers to tanks like this in GvG as Barrier does nothing against Venturer (or self hit).

Skramblegg just simply does too much while taking away any formation of thought, while countered by Barrier not enough people are running it. GvG currently is just complete coinflip as to which Skram team wins. There's zero thought to teambuilding now.

Skram being changed to not be disgusting would incentivize other strategies since Venturer is a cheap counter to tank builds so that alone can keep them in check. Skram is just too gross atm.

Zero reason to think of a team comp anymore. Skram x4 is just nasty. Or Skram x3 and a Barrier Tank in front.

Also is the Armory gvg bug ever going to get fixed or?

[ionic fulcrum]

im pretty sure no matter wich set they buff or nerf theres always gonna be that set that makes gvg a nightmare gvg needs a whole rework but feels never gonna happend since its to hard to balance...

maybe they can try and test few things like : this week revive mechanic its disabled , next week evade/block/barrier set to 0 , ancients effect disabled

so each week can be diff and force players to swap builds and think new ideas with the random week gvg "debuff"

[silk remnant]

I like the idea of add “debuff” or condition to gvg. It forces player to kept multiple set and bring strategies back to the game. and maybe make the gvg reward better or have a unique ranking/reward system so that player are interested of course

No matter how cool/fun the gvg if the reward isn’t all that great or just like the other weekly reward. Player will just ignore it

[waxen dawn]

Coins are worth

[silk remnant]

They are but I’m thinking more of gem

rmber t2 gem system?

[waxen dawn]

Never happening again lol

[silk remnant]

bring that back but give it to gvg and have a special debuff every week. You’ll see how competitive gvg can get

Only for gvg

and of course if you think the gem is too much or anything we can always look for alt but the main point is have a reward that people may actually care able

or

A simple

1k gut or cream or the other thing but the reward rotates every week

Btw that 1k reward is an additional reward

You dont wanna touch the current reward

[ionic fulcrum]

more guts jelly cream and forgot the name of the mat for augments

those lacks so much

[hot tendon]

A good suggestion. Badges act as buffs during GVG, for each badge paid (up to 5) some bonus is applied to the players team. This will make it always in favor of the player running the content which is the problem that needs to be fixed.

More suits, random suits, changing suits only helps those few guilds who have everything and not the average player.

I could care less if someone schools my guild when they are running their regen, only time I care if I win is when I am running mine.

That actually has impact on the issue. Do the other suggestions have that same impact?

With NFT's all over the tiers (I purposely moved mine up to avoid this), you get average players running up against top guilds. That seems to be the problem we need to fix here, the bonus per badge could help that. Changing suits out, does not.

Another could be pulling random people from the other guild rather than the persons setup (including NFTs). As if GVG was just raiding another's guild hall. So the first 8 there defend are just picked at random, putting the 'enemy team' at a disadvantage as people and placement would be random.

^The real problem is people don't want to lose all the time, which has very little to do with the flavor of the day.

[sullen salmon]

Fixing gear that is improperly balanced helps long term. Changing a bandaid does not address the injury.

Same principle on running pvp - when I am running my I look for 100% win rate. But people who find me on defense when running their = I hope they also get 100% rate.

GvG is compounded due to an influx of "Same set that does X and then you get Y into Z results" because said set is the injury. But applying a bandaid and not addressing the injury is bad design.

"But what will happen when that set gets addressed, another set will take it's place and boohoo" - yeah welcome to how life works and especially in gaming where it's the Developers job to address said issues whenever their playerbase discovers concerns, pain points, and exploits that all too often go unchecked because players don't report them.

BUT, I know we can all agree ... GvG as an entire game mode needs an overhaul

[rose moon]

rework skram

make it so skram has nothing to do with revive anymore, it’s lowkey buggy

make it so skram 4/4 is like attack team for 15% of the dmg u take or something

[waxen walrus]

Skramblegg 4/4 should have never been revive based, and instead based off redirects. An offensive revive bait just isn’t good. You become a team wiper instead of an actual bait

[waxen walrus]

Proposed reworked Skramblegg:
2/4 - +25% Max Shield
3/4 - +20% Evade while shielded
4/4 - +25% chance to Redirect damage to the strongest ally when you get hit. Fire damage closest for 15%, 3 times when you proc Redirect

I think this idea really limits the amount of damage Skramblegg can deal by minimizing the damage to a single enemy, and separating the damage into multiple hits (x3) means it can still be countered by Barrier. A single frontline Barrier tank in PvP would really limit the damage output, but the damage output would be very noticeable in PvE.

If I'm understanding correctly, with how Skramblegg 4/4 is described, it seems like Skramblegg's 4/4 Redirect to the strongest ally adds another layer of Redirect. Meaning you could potentially proc the proposed Skramblegg 4/4 (and Heart Escarium) twice instead of just once.

Ex: Say you stack 50% Redirect (Sol Rune + Heart Escarium), that's a 50% chance to pull a hit to you. With Skramblegg's 4/4 Redirect, you have a 25% chance to send the hit to your team's tank. That gives 2 procs of the proposed 4/4.

[vale current]

I still wish Heart would get changed to "15% Redirect, 15% chance when you get hit to X" so it could be used in solo content as well. It's currently completely and utterly fucking worthless in both solo content and team content.

[hot tendon]

To reiterate, the gvg issue isn't as much about a set as the issue of having power concentrated in a few guilds who rightfully should win. But in the end the concern for the 'average joe' who plays is that its difficult to get a win. Fix that and the set complaints go away. Some advantage to the person who is starting the gvg fight.. Some bonus for them, some minus for the opponents or adding randomness to the defending team would fix it better than any set change.

no amount of set ideas fixes the gvg issue. There will always be a best suit, swapping that to something else fixes it until people figure it out and quickly grind it out. I only use scram for gvg and sometimes pvp. The change is a lot like hector. Just takes a set out of rotation and likely replaces it with a set that will be used for all content which in my mind is a step backwards. Doesn't effect any of my play.. I'll just copy once someone figures it out. Just seems like we are attacking a symptom instead of the problem for the normal player.

[dusk radish]

I absolutely agree.

If anyone plays enough games, you’ll see the same phenomenon - the best class, the best build, the best item etc.

The meta is always going to come up because nothing in life is perfectly balanced and countered. You kill perk, witchum comes, you kill extort, skram comes etc. the cycle of life continues.

You can rebalance the set for sure, but do not mistake that for the core gvg issue. Also, “fixing gvg” does not mean everyone has a 50/50 chance of winning lol.

[hot tendon]

Id rather the people paying the badges have some advantage. At least that way it isn't as much of an issue. If that gets fixed, I don't see people complaining about sets.

[silk remnant]

just make 1 set/ 1 ancient pieces per guild team

if one peep already use skram set then you can’t add another people who also uses that set and if there’s someone running ancient bait with bark jacket firium and clover then other people that you’re going to add in gvg def can’t uses that piece of gear either

[hot tendon]

Not sure you can coordinate that and still doesn't fix th issue.

If a player doesn't 'set a set' it comes up as whatever they are wearing.

Seems like swapping sets around takes a lot more work than just giving the attacker a bonus

With nft's litered throughout the tiers there are possibly a lot of fixes, but all take a lot of dev resources like "your opponent can only have people of same tier or lower than the attacker" sounds great but the code would be intense. What is the problem that people are trying to solve.. it isn't any set of bonuses from a single set, but rather "wanting to win when they play", maybe not every time but better than 50/50.

[dusk radish]

lol, actually to pull this example to an extreme.

Would people complain about skram, if they were given 100% PvP and gvg win rates? I doubt so.

[hot tendon]

I think all the other fixes are great ideas, just the dev time could be used towards new content.. bonuses seems like a super simple code fix.

If I had my dream, would be a monster that guilds could do dmg too and the guild who does the most dmg gets the throne.. the godzilla idea. That way at least people get a chance at the collars. Way too complex to code though.

[silk remnant]

^ this one too, I like that. The boss would have different skill, debuff, mechanic every gvg. No set vs set bs but it’s you vs the game again

[sullen salmon]

Because that's an idyllic world that doesn't exist.

The one thing that Bit Legends did right for 1 specific content:

• Total turn count (it has been suggested here plenty)
• visible counter above the team fight
• when it hits that it's over = tie (you get split points)
• or you win/lose = points results that way as we currently have it

We can defend and push back on fixing sets/gear all we want, but we end up with Oblit era gaming that turned into Witchum/Perkunas complaint gaming era, turned into Skramblegg in GvG era.

Compounding design issues that Developers are responsible for end of the day, and if they don't address those issues then the content that is around said sets/item design becomes warped and unappealling.

[sullen salmon]

The amount of "yes/no" statements you'd be asking a Dev to go write to produce that result would cause any sane person to cry. Especially in a game that was built on Flash almost a decade ago & "cleanly" ||/s|| ported to Unity...

(Would that be great in a game written that way, though? Yes!)

[sullen salmon]

That last part of that reply is where people get up in arms in a "pay to win" mobile gaming world "We all want to win fairly and easily"... okay, well..... in this world of mobile gaming industry standards: you pay = you have the advantage. If you don't accept that business model then don't play those types of games. If you do accept that business model then... well that's where we are.

also not allowing guilds to increase in member size has helped prevent further cannibalization of rosters and isolation of "power" ... Guilds have (up to) 30 members. Any mid-range guild should have that guild size perk maxed asap anyways.

older suggestion (from the way back land of 2019, even) for GvG was to code the game to see your mounts' tier & to assign opponents in GvG that were that same tier & it would compile their/your GvG roster line-up accordingly. If you had 5-5 that were all that same tier = great
If you didn't and you had 3 to their 5.... that was just the risk to take
[that suggestion got lost when Moki left]

But again - ignoring set design corrections/balances isn't a healthy approach either.

[sullen salmon]

• Autobattler/Madden Manager Mode style, yes
• You use your guild roster but the game just says "here is your 5/5" now fight
• No way to "pick and choose", you simply get what the game sets for you
  this could be a solution

^So if you're a 10 player new guild or even 15 or 21~ well that's just what you gotta work on to get a stable of players up to the guild cap so you have a more robust "duck duck goose" moment for the game to give you a better offense/defense start fight

[sullen salmon]

The Guild Boss game mode that Bit Legends took from our game-idea channel (literal 1:1 - with their scribblenaut art design) was an absolute blast. It had total turns then the boss enraged (WoW - anyone?) then you got your rewards.

GvG is flatter than diet soda left open...

[hot tendon]

I think badges equal bonus Is quick and solves same problem which is people want to win more

Is this the 'new content' we want them to work on is the question. I'd rather have a new event or new tier. Badge + Bonus means a method needs to be added rather than a complete rewrite.

Its not that other ideas aren't good, just thinking about time sink.

Guilds don't win the event because they have better gear (it does effect but not as much as consumes), its because they spend on running. so its about the individual winning more and having the content not be nulled for them

[hot tendon]

If you were level 200, what would make the experience better I think is the question. Maybe loot on losses, but no guild points would work too

[white lantern]

Losing GvG is not the issue at play, the problem is that you have little agency on that when you're running x8 Skram

Like any other game (and gamemode), losing is part of it

You already have an advantage by being able to actually play the game while the other team is just on auto (even if that advantage is just really irrelevant when playing against Skram, or 3xt, or other strategies that behave pretty much equally on auto or manual)

[hot tendon]

I do believe losing is why Kong hears complaints about suits (not just skram). But understood.

Just thinking about lower level or new players.

[white lantern]

Losing is always an outcome that generates frustration, that is okay.
A game with no chance of failure is...just a boring game. To drive the example to it's extreme, let's take Sophar's example:
-If we gave everyone 100% WinRate on PvP&GvG: Why only to those 2 gamemodes? You still need to grind and spend resources to play the other gamemodes.
-And after that, why have the battle at all? Just put a giant button there that gives you the reward immediately after clicking it.

Even the second one makes more sense on it's own.

[white lantern]

It aligns more with the experience of someone who's at the very very very end of the progression on an RPG, than someone who's at the beginning. For most games, losing is what drives you to improve under the game's rules (get better familiars, gears, runes, etc etc etc) its the driver to optimize

[hot tendon]

Understood.

[waxen dawn]

Speaking of familiars, can we increase the amount of augments even more? Would love to be able to get augments on every fusion

[hot tendon]

I didn't ask for 100% win rate.

[white lantern]

And its also the natural wall of progress. You hit a difficult thing you can't beat, you go back and improve. Same applies to PvP and GvG on a conceptual level, but the meta is:
-A) Too stale (has been the same since Skram's release)
-B) Too rigid (you don't have options around it, a meta will always always rise up in any competitive setting, but 80% of a battle being the exact same setup and THAT being the meta is...a bit too much).
-C) Bad. The set that's meta in particular has very little agency or counterplay aside from more of itself, so it's not even interesting to think or engage with it on a game level.

And smart and powerful players/guilds should have an outlet for their power, crafting super strong teamcomps that require a lot of power and game knowledge to beat is the fantasy behind endgame GvG

That's the "versus Player" aspect of these gamemodes, other players are setting up the wall for you to overcome

[dusk radish]

This assumes two sufficiently strong guilds

[hot tendon]

Doesn't mean those powerful guilds wouldn't still win their fights.

[dusk radish]

Anyhow, I guess t22 would address this 🤓

[white lantern]

And that's perfectly okay, same as when you get a powerful enough setup to just auto heroic raids

or solo wb

[waxen dawn]

I found that even with witchum as meta, I would lose to people with the right composition. Skram has made it to where whoever has more skram is more likely to win

[silk remnant]

I’m not going to miss skram meta

[blissful egret]

1. RNG with 5 Skrambleggs vs 5 Skrambleggs
2. nothing
   Every time the GVG comes, it means a week without extra. Experience, money and items, just a boring trash mode that you never expect. 6 times a day you participate in a survival game (5 Skramblegg vs 5 Skramblegg) and you either lose because RNG. not on your side, or you win and get almost nothing. If in other modes (battle or expedition) you get at least a few coins and experience, and sometimes items, then GVG will not give you anything. Mythical material with GVG does not pay for it, playing for a YEAR without donating, I received 1 mythical material with GVG.

Sorry for the crooked text, I used a translator.

I see only 1 option for improving GVG: complete replacement or removal. One pvp mode is enough for me.

[silk remnant]

PvP/GvG mode is how you can earn collar

tho I do agree to most of what you said compare to other stuff gvg is meh week

[blissful egret]

1 collar in year from gvg.

That's NOT worth it

[silk remnant]

Hey the option is there if you want to go nut and farm is all

[low basin]

gvg makes my regen on 3 accs fast(er) so i like gvg week personally

[silk remnant]

This give off the same vibe as “lets get this shoes over with”

[static mirage]

I never lose lyme you know this I occasionally let enemies win sometimes to be fair

[woven rose]

[silk remnant]

End to skram

[low basin]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-coffin-coffin-dance-funeral-funny-farewell-gif-16737844

[upper whale]

Big W from Kong

[ionic fulcrum]

this set needs rework make it viable for pve bcs atm its total garbo

[willow hedge]

Fr

[hidden meadow]

I mean yeah why gut another set

When all it takes is a new set that blocks enemies from reviving when a certain debuff is applied

And that set applies that debuff on hit with a certain chance lol

[hidden meadow]

Exactly why those modes are irrelevant. Only reason you care for it is if you care about the thrones

All else can be done in pvp as well

[hidden meadow]

Be creative here. Post might be older. But gutting another set like this under that reasoning seems strange. Just create the counter set and let people decide what they gonna run.

[steady silo]

holy read lmfao cheers to the end of skram onto root meta

[hidden meadow]

And Back to all exort haha

[ionic fulcrum]

next update : now xtort deals normal dmg

[silk remnant]

i no longer lose as much in gvg

https://tenor.com/view/ugryy-gif-22147341

[ionic fulcrum]

im doing it pretty fine with ancient and vent users

[silk remnant]

ya so long skram ya cheeky set!

[ionic fulcrum]

i wish they make it a pve set

[silk remnant]

maybe? is skram completely unuseable now?

i thought maybe you can still 3x skram in wb and get 100% clear inteir

would give skram a unique purpose

instead of crushing player hope and dream in gvg it crushes mobster hope and dream in wb instead

[ionic fulcrum]

skram garbo atm its useless

[silk remnant]

maybe a rewrok is in it way but pls dontmakr it skram 2.0 in gvg

[ionic fulcrum]

nah prob they gonna make it for pve

[silk remnant]

finger cross