#Does a sexless marriage justify infidelity ?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lethal wagon
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My brother cheated on his first and second wife.
I told him that was crap and he took it poorly.
He claims his marriages have been sexless, they have violated an unwritten marriage contract by withholding intimacy and he is therefore justified in seeking it elsewhere.

The first wife caught him cheating and divorced him.
The second wife caught him and they negotiated an open marriage.
She changed her mind therefore breaking another contract and he can sleep around again.

He says the rift that has now developed between him and I is my fault because of my judgement and criticism.
He says I am a sociopath for not being able to show empathy for his situation and the pain I've caused him.

Is he right ?

hardy nova
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Sounds like this is something you need to discuss with a couples therapist

brisk trout
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You are not a sociopath based on this. You might be, but this data does not lean that way IMO.

I am poly, and that means that 'cheating' means lying, and not about sex. If I am clear and following safe sex agreements, I am staying in my commitments.

The standard monogamy contract needs to have options clauses for these contingencies, and few people are willing to negotiate that in at the start, and often find themselves re-negotiating later, like in this case.

If one side breaches a contract (they did IMO by cheating by doing the deed without telling first) then a re-negotiation is forced, and often breaks because the loss of trust is too much to bear.

Whether this is fair is up to them, and the emotional impact of the lying becomes the biggest barrier, even if they could both be okay with the new normal if they had come to it without cheating first.

dull quail
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A marriage being sexless doesn't automatically mean that the other person is "withholding" intimacy. That framing implies that one person is entitled to sex from the other, which isn't the case morally or legally. My ex-husband used a similar framing and while he never cheated on me (that I know of), he did use it to coerce me into having sex that he knew I didn't want or enjoy. According to him, my once-high sex drive had (for some reason) plummeted over time and if I just forced myself to have sex on a regular basis then I would just start to enjoy it after awhile. In reality my body had just shut down sexually because his chronic disrespect for my boundaries made it impossible for me to relax around him. I would express that this made me uncomfortable, or that I would like to be touched like that, and he would ignore what I said and get angry that I had these kinds of preferences at all. When we finally split, my libido came back roaring in less than a week. "Withholding" intimacy also implies that this is something the wives are doing intentionally as punishment for something else he did or didn't do. That wasn't the case for me and I would doubt it's the case for them either.

If you are in a sexless marriage, your first option is to talk about why the sex has gone, ideally from the perspective of two partners working together to try to solve a shared problem. If that doesn't work, split up. There are actual contracts involved in marriage and most don't say anything about regular sex, but if you want to end it, that process is called divorce. Not cheating.

As for lobbing around armchair diagnoses. I'm guessing the entire reason you think his behavior is shit is that you empathize with the wives. That's not a sociopath. But a guy who chronically harms others and then paints himself as the victim could be a narcissist. It's a tactic they use to evade accountability, and it looks like it's working. You're really out here wondering if you're a bad person for pointing out someone else's bad behavior.

echo spindle
# lethal wagon My brother cheated on his first and second wife. I told him that was crap and he...

Based on his behavior, your brother betrays people then tries to gaslight them into feeling responsible for his choices. Marriage is a contract of trust and everything else in a relationship which is contractual is that which has been addressed and agreed to. If someone does not want to be intimate with a partner then no contract has been broken and the underlying issues should be addressed so that both partners can heal whatever was fractured that lead up to them not feeling close. Nobody is entitled to sex; marriage is not sexual slavery. His wives withdrew or got turned off by him for a reason and he refuses to address what that is, even if he knows. Instead, he ignored their pain and used the wedge he created between them to justify betraying their trust without any remorse. Habitual cheaters often create an issue with a partner in order to feel justified in pursuing a new interest and I would doubt that he didn't already have other women in his sights before things soured with his wives because he never actually committed to them and just felt like trying new partners behind their backs. The second wife fell for his gaslighting enough to initially accept blame for his extramarital habits and agreed to let everything slide before coming to her senses. You voiced the only objective and rational position between you and him and he did not like having his behavior called out by a neutral party so he immediately tried to gaslight you, too, since that's how he weasels out of uncomfortable situations and avoids taking responsibility for his detrimental actions. Blaming you and accusing your empathy for the women he screwed over as being sociopathic antipathy for him doesn't make any sense but that's what popped into his head to manipulate you with. Does he usually manipulate, gaslight and guilt trip you or was this his first time?

viscid wasp
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Does he usually manipulate, gaslight and guilt trip you or was this his first time?
☝️ Once you see it, you see it everywhere.

ebon grail
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No, it doesn't.
If you're unhappy in your marriage, fix it or split off.
Don't be dishonest with your spouse just because you can somehow find a justification for doing so.

If the person you were with was expecting fidelity, you were expecting it from them, and either of them cheated, the FULL, ENTIRE fault is on the cheater, period.

If you solved the issue or split off, the cheating wouldn't have happened at all.

lethal wagon
echo spindle
brisk trout
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Once you recognise gas-lighting, you can't un-see it. That's a good thing.

heavy marten
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No, it's clear that there are balanced marriages which do not include sex. And therefore not having sex in a marriage does not dissolve it. People live together for a variety of reasons. If you'd like to end your marriage, talk to your partner about divorce.

blissful dome
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Why do you feel you can judge him? That's none of your business IMHO.

charred leafBOT
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GG @blissful dome, you just advanced to level 1!

feral lotus
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What do you mean .

If you want to be in a monogamous relationship, you remain monogamous.
If you don't then don't remain monogamous.

It is that simple.

You shouldn't be a liar perhaps

But it is that simple.

Adding the weight of a piece of paper and a ring doesn't change this at all .

I'm in a monogamous relationship.

I have been in many.

My current relationship isn't at all sexless.

Be with whom , you want to be with.

I don't see any reason in me cheating.

But he just gave you a reason for cheating

By definition he's justified.

Logically
He doesn't want to be with someone if they won't fuck him.

I would argue the illogical bullshit he has going on, is the partner he chose and the next one.

Choose better partners and you will be happier.

Simple.

Or don't figure it out

Where you went wrong or your partners or your choice in partners or their choice in you and why ..
You either do or don't .

Do people get their feelings hurt.
Yeah

All the time

Children too.

It's better to be the least nasty person to your partner and to your kids.

So it's perhaps more moral.

To be more faithful than not depending on the relationship.

I got like a key hole view of this.

And even if I judged him terribly.

How will that effect the outcome of all this. Vise versa anyone else and no matter gender or their own relationships they had

Because the ultimate fact is

Relationships are like people.
They are about as broad and different as they come.

viscid wasp
feral lotus
# viscid wasp Have you considered that you might be autisitic? Or are you just trying to be e...

I have a disorder related to autism, but that doesn't defeat what I said.
I'm not trying to be edgy.

Took a step back from society
So I can come back and say things as they are
Without trying to be offensive or biased or too nice.

Just as they are.
They sound edgy, because they are personal

But something like the truth is the personal observations translated into the societal language .

You're going to get mismatches .
Of intuition and real truth .

viscid wasp
feral lotus
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So what was I suppose to mean .

How can I come across more meaningful
When the meaning in the text says "it bothers me , that my brother cheated on this good(supposedly) good person

And I wrote an essay which includes why people good people should pick better partners.

Yes you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

If you need sex daily be with someone who is sexual daily .

That's an answer

If you don't like the answer
It's because you prefer the excuse.

The excuse is soothing.
Allows you to mourn with them.

I mourn for about a day or two.
Then years later maybe once

Cause sadness and crying and being a baby for me at least I'm beyond that.

Because I lived it.

Live it long enough
It doesn't become painful
It becomes painfully boring.

Painfully a waste of time
Painfully useless.
Painfully obvious that the thing you were taught to believe over and over
With even marriage and society is wrong
And made up and marked up that way

So you can point fingers.
For what?
Get over it. How is she supposed to get over it

If people even talking about her suppose to get over it .
Damn

heavy marten
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Why such a long post? If I were married to a woman, sex isn't the issue. I only know the question, "Is the Other known?"

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I will never swear such a vow, since I know that the Other is many.

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For the profane, marriage is a reversible contract.

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No woman is really Heaven.

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You don't even know a girl named Heaven.

hardy nova
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Janna means heaven

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So I do know a girl named heaven

heavy marten
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I value your false beliefs, as well, st. garfel.

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I want you to know that Hindus of the NY Vedanta school really believe that knowledge is heaven.

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God is Jealousy.

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@shrewd oriole , I told my boss at work today that she was angel.

shrewd oriole
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your boss at work is the enemy of all living things who are demonic intrinsically

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unless she can confess her sins to humanity and humbly accept her oppressive manner

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or perhaps one is only capable of projecting her own insecurities, however sincere they be or not

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@heavy marten \

heavy marten
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I love her. I've told her that. We have a good relationship.

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I told her she is angel, but she is not Heaven.

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I confess that if Heaven could be married, I would have her.

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But for angel, who can defeat the unreasonable?

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Now I must become the unfuckable for my cat, who clearly needs me once again and is crying.

heavy marten
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Bishma did refuse angel, and so she must search throughout the worlds until she can find a man who will defeat him. No one wants to destroy Bishma more than Shiva, and so Satan chooses him.

viscid wasp
viscid wasp
hardy nova
heavy marten
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I'm a virgin, but I'm still a big fake.

feral lotus
heavy marten
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Hate is the only thing that's real.