#Demons

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frozen raven
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yeah of course! im glad we can help!

sleek crag
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You'll post in this channel,bcs it's the demon's one if I'm right?

frozen raven
sleek crag
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Ohhh

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Tysm

vagrant rose
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could lilith be reaching out to you if your ethnicity is jewish but not your religion?

hallow peak
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She's part of the Jewish religion so it's kind of a grey area since the religion comes with a lot of context that's required to really understand her mythology beyond what the new age movement and witchtok have turned her into

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Like there are a lot of people thay are ethnically Jewish that still celebrate some of the holidays from a historical/cultural standpoint, but that's not quite the same thing as participating in parts of the religion despite not believing in/taking part in it

vagrant rose
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ah okay

nova bronze
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I've been doing some research on Duke Aim, mainly in resources and the link. I'm slightly confused with the term of Solar demon being used does it just mean an association to the sun or does it mean something else?

frozen raven
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so hes associated with fire and destruction and therefore the sun! so yeah its an association with the sun

like how lucifer's title is Lord of Air

nova bronze
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Thank you so much, I've been considering asking him for help on a burn out. Any suggestions?

frozen raven
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like suggestions for how to ask?

nova bronze
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Yes, I haven't worked with spirits to much. And how to contact him? Sorry for all the questions.

frozen raven
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is this like the first time youll be reaching out to an entity at all?

nova bronze
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No, I've reached out to a few other entities. Just not demons.

frozen raven
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So demons work pretty much like any other entity

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you can invite him into your space with a message of welcome and maybe his sigil?
as a reminder any entity is allowed to reject you asking for help since like forcing them would be :/

nova bronze
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Ok, thank you for the clarification. Once again sorry for all the questions.

frozen raven
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no your fine! you cant know if you dont ask /gen

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i think also maybe lighting a candle with his sigil on it could help? at least that would let him know like "hey šŸ‘‹ i am asking for you"

nova bronze
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Sorry, thank you for all the help and suggestions.

frozen raven
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youre okay /gen
hope i was able to help!

patent gull
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Beelzebub is hot and attractive thanks šŸ™‚

frozen raven
patent gull
frozen raven
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ah

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I'm not one to like call my entites "hot and attractive" but that's me lol

patent gull
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lmao word šŸ˜„

upbeat shuttle
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Could I ask a quick question?

hallow peak
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What's up?

upbeat shuttle
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I tried to communicate with Vual, I've done this with a few other entities from the Goetia, but this time it felt different, like I had this overwhelming feeling of being cold then really warm, is this normal?

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I asked what I wanted to and the candles grew tall, and then I ended it and took notes, but that feeling was something I've not experienced before with them

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Unsure if it was the entity or if it was just me lol

hallow peak
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It can be. People experience the presence of entities differently, but a lot of people describe it as overwhelming

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Some people experience temperatures while others feel pressure or even strong smells

upbeat shuttle
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There was an odd smell but I thought it was just me šŸ˜‚

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But this is normal and I have nothing to worry about though?

hallow peak
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Yeah it should be fine. If you want to double check, you can ask if it was them via something like a coin flip, pendulum, tarot, or other divination method

upbeat shuttle
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Ok thank you (sorry for late response haha, really tired)

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How would I phrase the question to the tarot?

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Ok I found a way to phrase it and tarot said yes in my interpretation

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Ace of Cups

hallow peak
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Yeah I would call that a yes!

hallow peak
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I love when entities essentially do the Big Bird meme in my space lmao
Still working on confirming it though

hallow peak
upbeat shuttle
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Could I ask what entity would be best to communicate with about Love and Friends currently?

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nevermind, i just realised that i had not long spoke about one ahaha

olive tapir
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yaā€™ll i am SO excited i ordered 3 new books re demons and two come today catshake

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the resources i shall write w these dragonnod

frozen raven
olive tapir
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i want to eventually get around to a books i recc list but i fear i must read all these first šŸ˜­

winged skiff
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Not gonna lie, working with demons sure is straightforward...

frozen raven
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they work p much like most other entities dragonnod

winged skiff
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True to that, the first time i tried to contact them i was feeling like they are scary and will definitely be angry at me but over time, i realize they are just the same. Just try not to offend and avlid what they dislike

winged skiff
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Working with Beelzebub is amazing because it helps my business shoot up

frozen raven
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noice!!!

teal cairn
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hello ^^ just checking, does anyone have a compilation of names of demons that often present in a more feminine manner and/or are considered more feminine? i know that demons are capable of presenting however they wish but most of the demons listed in most resources are masc so i'm just wondering if anyone knows of feminine ones

hallow peak
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Most of the feminine ones are gonna be in the Dukante hierarchy- Rashoon, Unsere, Taroon, Sonnelion, and Asafoetida are ones I know for sure off the top of my head and a lot of people see Satanachia as feminine (though I am not one of them)

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However, demons and other entities can present as another gender than what's written in their sources if they think that's what you need or will help you be more comfortable

winged skiff
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Some say Duchess Astaroth is mostly feminine presenting :]

frozen raven
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ik some folks (like Em) view some demons as fem (like the duchess gremory)

I know that a really big issue when it comes to feminine demons is that in the Goetia very few of them are actually labeled with she her

hallow peak
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Yeah pretty much every demon in the goetia is described as masc so some people have upg with some of them gender swapped

frozen raven
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dragonnod ye some of that UPG has been shared to spg

for me I tend to view a few demons as gender neutral so like Beelzebub I use all pronouns for them

flint nova
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Hey all, I'm curious to know if anyone has worked with Vassago and how that went

winged skiff
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Did an offering today for Lord Lucifer after a great hard work and found out he likes rituals for him done when the light are off in a literally turning off the whole city's lights...

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Also found out his favourite instrumentals from my playlist :]

frozen raven
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OOO nice! he's the opposite in the rituals for me in that he needs šŸ§ every light in my house on šŸ˜”

winged skiff
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I actually confirmed the reason, he did it for me because i like fire magick and he thinks with lights off i became happier and the rituals goes smoother šŸ„¹

winged skiff
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Just wondering, do we have resources about demons that are closed to only a specific religion or group? The only one i have actually read is Lilith, so i am afraid of appropriation

frozen raven
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there are a few closed to Judaism like Lilith and Agrat bat Malath

basically if they only show up in Jewish lore they are closed to Judaism.

Djinn/Jinn some would say are very specific to Islam so you would need to join that religion to practi e

however there isn't going to be a complete list just because there is some religions that don't have the documentation needed to make a complete list

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I guess one of your best options is probably going to be researching each demon extensively before attempting to reach out or work with them

winged skiff
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Thank you so much for the insight Oli

timid canopy
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iā€™m back from the fires with furfurā€™s life story (probably very upg <3 heā€™s pretty niche in terms of getting actual information)

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Furfur Fun Stuff by me :p
ft. a lot of upg

 Count Furfur is the 34th demon in the Ars Goetia, the 33rd demon in the Dictionnaire Infernal, and the 30th demon in the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum. He is attributed to  Christian demonology as a fallen angel and may present differently depending upon who calls him. 
 Furfur can cause electrical disturbances, summon lightning and storms of various forms, teach of divine and secret things, and cause love (Across different texts, heā€™s said to either force or urge love between only a man and a woman. Through my own communication with him, Iā€™ve learned that this also applies to queer love). 
 In general, he is said to appear as a lying stag with the wings of an angel. Once compelled into a triangle of art, he changes form into an angel with a hoarse voice who will speak the truth. I did not follow this procedure in summoning him as I feel Solomonic magic is unethical and disrespectful. However, even without compelling him into a triangle of art, he still answered my vetting questions truthfully and was successfully vetted.  1/2
timid canopy
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Associations:
Animals: Deer
Elements: Fire
Enn: Ganen Menach Tasa Furfur
Planets: Mars, Saturn, Venus
Metals: Copper, Silver
Colors: Red, Silver, Pink, Black
Day: Friday
Rank: Earl

Offerings:

ā€¢ incense
ā€¢ things associated with love
ā€¢ depictions of deer
ā€¢ storm water
ā€¢ copper items

this list is really short bc his practice is private for the most part, heā€™ll tell you what heā€™s cool with

Sample Vetting Questions:

is your element water?
is your element earth?
correct: is your element fire?

is your metal aluminum?
is your metal gold?
correct: is your metal copper?

is your day monday?
is your day wednesday?
correct: is your day friday?

are you represented by an eagle?
are you represented by an insect?
correct: are you represented by a deer?

can you control the sea?
can you control trees?
correct: can you control lightning?

are you a president?
are you a king?
correct: are you an earl?

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Furfur hasnā€™t been demanding so far as Iā€™ve worked with him, but he has been extremely intense. Itā€™s only been a week that Iā€™ve been worshipping him and so far heā€™s efficiently picking things out of my life which shouldnā€™t have been in my life in the first place. Itā€™s a lot to tolerate at once, so if you plan on working with him I would truly think about whether you can emotionally handle it. Thereā€™s no shame in not being able to and heā€™s more than patient

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Heā€™s also not subtle. At all.

frozen raven
timid canopy
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oh yeah totally

short vector
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Oh, also what's a triangle of art?

timid canopy
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a triangle of art is a feature of solomonic magic, it contains archangel michaelā€™s name split up into three segments inside of the triangle. outside of the triangle are the three great names of god. demons are summoned within this triangle

timid canopy
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heā€™s not subtle, meaning heā€™s very obvious and upfront

teal cairn
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peeks. does anyone have resources on Lord (? i forgot his rank) Rosier

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trying to branch out fron the demonsanddemonolatry site

winged skiff
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Any books on demonology that youā€™d recommend to get started, or at least to know the demons? /gen
(sorry for any incorrect terms!) /gen

teal cairn
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s connolly's complete book of demonolatry is Not Bad i guess but it does appropriate some Jewish concepts like pathworking the Tree of Life
the lesser key of solomon has brief descriptions of each of the 72 Goetic demons

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i can dm you some more if you're fine with that ^^

winged skiff
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Please do! Send a friend request, my DMs are closed

harsh osprey
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I want to look into demonology, I'm far to new to do anything with it safely but I want to learn about it

void zinc
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this workshop may be a good starting point #1114061545916354560 message !

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i haven't checked it out but it sounds general enough

harsh osprey
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Thank you!

teal cairn
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peeks. has anyone here communicated with prince sitri before

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we just got off a tarot reading session with him (or at least we think it was him) and he kept being like "i can't tell you this" when we asked for details on some general statement he made

frozen raven
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I haven't and I don't believe we have anything on him

teal cairn
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hi chat i just woke up from a dream in which prince stolas's name popped up multiple times

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Hm

winged skiff
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Ooh, i'd say go for it. Who knows what'll you'll need from him in this period :3

winged skiff
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Did a food offering for Lord Beelzebub for thanking him for abundance i got and this afternoon got a free food as a bonus, what a great day

lean wren
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King Paimon took off today, I was happy to work with him and he wants me to celebrate the time we worked together (and I am) I'm just a bit sad as well

pallid summit
upbeat shuttle
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Just wondering, with the entities, do you need to have the incense for it or can it be done without?

frozen raven
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it may depend on what its being used for but most often you dont need it but if you wanna use it you can

upbeat shuttle
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Ok so I just did it and then said goodbye after I was finished, and I asked for something to be done tonight completely forgetting that I was told they don't tend to work in time frames when asked I believe was what I was told, but the candle grew quite tall upon asking and the Tarot deck when i asked if it would happen tonight gave me the 10 of Cups which seems to be really positive

frozen raven
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nice!

upbeat shuttle
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I did completely forget about the timing stuff until after I was done with it tho lol

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So wait it is a positive indicator then?

frozen raven
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well i mean if you feel the card and the flame are positive then i would say yes?
it might not be that it will happen right away but more so that they are working on it

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like you can still ask within specific timeframes for things to happen, whether or not they end up happening by that time frame is sorta up in the air but i would say that it may be postivie indicator that they are gonna try their best to do that

upbeat shuttle
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Ah alright, well fingers crossed then

upbeat shuttle
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Ok so it didn't happen last night, but the cards remained very positive throughout today as well

upbeat shuttle
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Do the positive cards indicate it will happen soon, or will the timing now just be up in the air as u say, or will it be soon do you think? Because the tarot is giving me cards such as Knight of Cups and Ace of Wands, which are very positive in terms of what I asked

frozen raven
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i think its less about exact timing and more like "yes we are working on it rn" type of thing

upbeat shuttle
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Would it be worth trying to get a time frame from the tarot or will it just be whenever?

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Sorry I'm not sure on timing and I don't want to interpret it wrong

frozen raven
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im not sure youll be able to get a clear answer as i think weve mentioned before that deadlines arent something that you can really set

upbeat shuttle
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Ye, I don't have the best memory so I might end up asking the same questions again if I am not sure lmao. If the cards are positive I will just take it as an indicator that they're working on it and that it could just be any time

upbeat shuttle
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Just wondering, can the entities alter the way I feel about a situation, as in like guiding me to do something which can get whatever I've ask for rolling?

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Idk if that makes sense?

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Lmao

frozen raven
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hm idk about altering how you feel but they could be sending you signals and signs to influence that

upbeat shuttle
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Ok so they can influence my actions via signs etc which could lead to what I've asked for?

frozen raven
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it's not so much that they are influencing your actions it's that they're giving you subconscious signs that you may or may not follow

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like seeing a for sale sign when looking for a house doesn't automatically leaving you're going to buy that house but it can give you an idea of what you may be looking for

upbeat shuttle
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So I am curious tho, because I've never had an issue with the way people treat me but suddenly last night I had an urge to confront someone about it and they're aware of whats happened, and I am wondering as to whether that could've been influenced as a way for them to get the ball rolling on what I'd asked for?

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Idk if it is anything to do with them but since I asked for something I've been having really weird waves of confidence and stuff and idk if its to do with them

upbeat shuttle
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I'm only curious lol as it would explain a lot

winged skiff
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Feeling like a genius because i incorporated a demon in my pantheon into my studying (basically making my study sessions as offering) since i am in the time where i had to study evrryday and sometimes too busy to do rituals

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
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I have a question about the entities themselves, just wondering if you can almost alter the request you asked for, or would that mess up the timing on when they might do it?

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Or would it just be better to ask another entity for the changes you wish to make/addon

frozen raven
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you can ask but they may not be able to fulfill it in the same timeline depending on how drastic the change is

upbeat shuttle
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Would it need to be the same one or can I just ask any entity?

frozen raven
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i mean you could ask any but like then you would get conflicting outcomes depending on how different

faint walrus
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imo itā€™s better to ask for the changes but not to put a strict timeline on when you want it done, more than likely based on your request both you and the spirit will have to work thru blockages in order for the request to fully come to fruition.

and Iā€™m not sure if im reading your question correctly, but adding onto what oli said, not every kind of entity will be able to fulfill your request and do it well. ex: a passed ancestor who was bad with money canā€™t fulfill your request of helping you manifest money

upbeat shuttle
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I mean its not too drastic of a change and it is kinda implied by what I originally asked, but I was also going to ask if it can be done asap or can I not ask that, I am wondering because ik you can't ask for specific timeframes but I am wondering about whether they would likely respond quickly to an asap request?

frozen raven
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all my ancstors: šŸ§ we were also poor bro

faint walrus
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you can try to ask if it can be done ASAP, I would do divination with the entity youā€™re asking to fulfill the request to see if that is feasible

upbeat shuttle
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I mean its been I think just over a week since I asked my original request, how long would you say to leave it before I call it quits on it and possibly ask again, or maybe ask for it asap

faint walrus
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and also to see what the consequences / if any would occur by asking for something to come asap

upbeat shuttle
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Right ok so if I ask for it ASAP then it might lead to some unintended concequences?

faint walrus
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I think you should just give it more time or do divination to see what is currently being worked through for your manifestation to come forward fruitfully. Unintended consequences can come in a lot of different ways which is why i advise to not put a strict timeline and additionally to be specific when outlining your manifestation. Like a big example could be asking to get a new car ASAP, but you donā€™t specify how and then current car tw || gets hit and the way you get a new car is thru insurance ||. Does that make sense?

upbeat shuttle
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Right yes ok, yeah that is somewhat of a dark way to put it but yes I understand šŸ˜‚

faint walrus
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yeah sorry im in a parking lot rn and it was the first thing that came to mind šŸ˜­

upbeat shuttle
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lmao its fine haha, but yeah I do completely understand and I can certainly think of a few unintended concequenced for the situation I've ask to be resolved if I ask for it ASAP

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anyway I am going to bed cuz I got a banging headache haha

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thanks for the help šŸ™‚

faint walrus
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no worries! hope you feel better soon!

upbeat shuttle
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One thing I am curious about is on this website: https://demonsanddemonolatry.com/

It has some form of dates on the demons, and I am wondering if you can only communicate with them during those dates or if you can do it any time?

Demon Encyclopedia
Demon Encyclopedia

Knowledge base of Demons and Working with Demons

winged skiff
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You can, but let's say it's some kind of prettier dates when the connection was higher! Kind of like a special date thingt

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It's not limited to those dates

frozen raven
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you can do it at any time, those dates are just ones of importance.

like my grandma doesn't contact me a lot but on my birthday she makes sure to at least send a message

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same concept

upbeat shuttle
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Ok so if I was to try and bring them now and it isn't the specific date, would I need to do anything differently? Because normally I put stones in the form of a pentagram with the point facing whichever direction the entity is so for example North for some, and then I use candles nearby to ask yes and no question and to ask if my request can be fufilled. Would I need to do it differently?

frozen raven
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no it's the same manner of communication

upbeat shuttle
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Ok so what about Day and Night, is there a difference there?

frozen raven
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again not really?

upbeat shuttle
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Ok, just wondering lol so I can take notes of this and then hopefully not forget again lmaooo

frozen raven
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it may depend on how that specific entity is feeling that day or something but you can communicate with them at anytime on any date

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now will you get a response? šŸ¤· up to the entity

upbeat shuttle
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Ok well how would I know if I am communicating with them? or if theyre just like nah not today

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Normally I ask for a sign using a candle

frozen raven
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well youll usually get a response if your communicating

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if you don't get a sign then you more than likely arent

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this is where things like being able to determine mundane from magic happen

upbeat shuttle
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im sorry, my brain is jelly rn, what?

frozen raven
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if you do not get a sign or response in the method you prefer then you may not be communicating with them

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however this is where things like mundane versus magical come into play. you have to be able to rule out if something is happening because you're causing it to or if it's happening because a demon is doing so

upbeat shuttle
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Right ok, so like if my candle moves is a draft or is it a demon? that kind of ruling out lol

frozen raven
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yes

upbeat shuttle
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Would it be easier to ask tarot if I am communicating with them?

frozen raven
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i wouldn't say that. use what works for you

even tarot can have human error when it comes to readings. no method is foolproof

shrewd mist
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Whats up demon gang

winged skiff
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Yo, good day!

shrewd mist
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Did not know this channel existed

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šŸ˜Ž

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Anyway I've been thinking for awhile about working with Dantalion

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Or Stolas

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Does anyone have any experience with them?

winged skiff
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Not me personally, but we do have resources on Stolas, i think the submitter does have experiences on Him

#1114061545916354560 message

shrewd mist
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Ooo thank

south reef
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Iā€™m finally back to this discord after cleaning stuff up irl, and I did a reading out of curiosity and it gave me naberius as one of the demons to work with
Which was interesting bc I know some basic facts about him(I tried to work with him when I was younger bc there were theories in the kuroshitsuji fandom abt what demon Sebastian was and I felt the most drawn to naberius?) but this time I wanna take the deeeep plunge, any help is appreciated šŸ‘šŸ½

frozen raven
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unfortunately noting on him specifically but we do have resources on demons as a whole in #1114061545916354560

however if you have never done entity work before it's probably best to get your basics down and maybe start off with other entities as demons tend not to be the most beginner friendly

royal anchor
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can? you guys physically see them

frozen raven
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depends on the person

royal anchor
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how do you make relationship with them?

frozen raven
royal anchor
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are demons evil or they're just like humans?

frozen raven
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well they're not just like humans but they're also not evil in the same way that gods can be hurtful and hateful and rude and the same way that any other entity can be that way so can demons

but just how like gods and spirits can be good and kind and loving so can demons

royal anchor
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what makes them "demons" & what makes angels "angels"?

frozen raven
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demons fairly often tend to not agree with the abrahamic g-d whereas angels in a lot of spaces tend to work for them (g-d)

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and sometimes demons are fallen Angels depending on the lore like Lucifer so he was once an angel and now he is a fallen angel

royal anchor
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what is hell real & if I die, do I go to hell for not beliveing in christian god? is the christian afterlife stuff real like how god judges where you go?

faint walrus
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that really just depends on personal beliefs, imo no. in my beliefs judgement exists but not in that kind of way

upbeat shuttle
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Can i ask, if you try to communicate with an entity, can animals feel/see that entity?

faint walrus
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imo yes!

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all animals to me kinda share a similar innocence to children, in which theyā€™re a lot more spiritually sensitive and can see entities

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cats especially

upbeat shuttle
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So lets say I try to communicate with an entity, and then suddenly my pets start to run around the cage trying to fight frantically, which is not out of the ordinary, I am wondering potential coincidence, but could that mean that this entity was indeed present?

faint walrus
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yes

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depending on the entity, it could significantly shift the energy within the space, especially if they are an infernal or malicious. it could be a coincidence if itā€™s not an out of the ordinary, but imo if the timing is convenient then signs point to it being a contributing factor

upbeat shuttle
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Would you say an entity like Barbatos can cause significant energy shifts?

frozen raven
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hm any demon or entity could have them imo

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barbatos is pretty lowkey imo tho?
hes like the demon of song (???)

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or arts? i forget which one specifcally

upbeat shuttle
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oh, I thought he helped with connections and stuff like that?

faint walrus
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yes he could

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honestly the only time a spirit wouldnā€™t cause large energy shifts is likely if theyā€™re an ancestor and/or guide whoā€™s in your space frequently. like a regular visitor vs a visitor who has never entered the space before

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the energy is different, one is familiar and the other isnā€™t. that change can cause a significant ripple that is noticeable (in this case, your pets)

peak furnace
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Let me go looking for her name

frozen raven
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also depending on how jumpy your animal is having new energy like that in your space could just be really triggering for their senses overall

frozen raven
peak furnace
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Thatā€™s one depictions

faint walrus
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yeah like my dog will bark like crazy if itā€™s a malicious entity, but when my ancestors are around heā€™s a lot more playful

frozen raven
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oh neat! im just not really sure where that came from in converstaion /lh/gen

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
faint walrus
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well ainā€™t he a chihuahua šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£

peak furnace
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Oh I just mentioned it, cause like if an animal sensed another demon fronting as a dog Iā€™m assuming theyā€™d react in some capacity

frozen raven
faint walrus
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youā€™d think so but genuinely I think it has more to do with their energy than how they present

frozen raven
faint walrus
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because when hekate was reaching out to me and I kept seeing a black dog everywhere, my dog did a whole lot of nothing except make me think I was hallucinating

frozen raven
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i thought it was a reference to my common werewolf antics šŸ˜­

peak furnace
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All is well

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Oh-

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I was not aware

frozen raven
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thats okay! again sorry i just got lost lmao

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yeah like my dog is cool with Micheal but when its hades yk god that famously is a big ole dog person, he steals his shit all the time šŸ˜­ so its more so about both the animal in question and the entity at hand

olive tapir
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not michael

frozen raven
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Hes a micheal apologist sadpensive

olive tapir
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not an apologist šŸ˜”

frozen raven
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do not ping people from conversations over a year ago

frozen raven
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because it was a conversation from almost a year ago and it has long since moved on

gaunt cliff
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The topics are extremely irrelevant by this point

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But if you have any specific questions I'm sure people here would feel free to help out

short vector
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she might have even forgotten writing that and what the conversation was about

#

maybe she doesnt use discord as much anymore

frozen raven
#

she might not even be active in this server anymore

#

like it was over a year ago that that comment was made

short vector
#

yeah and how are you gonna ask her questions about the beliefs she held a year ago when they might have changed in time

frozen raven
#

we aren't we're telling you to not ping people from a year and a half ago for that conversation

magic ember
#

Question: While summoning demons into a triangle do they know you are using solomonic knowledge? I read somewhere that you should not mention anything to do with solomon or show anything to do with solomon?

#

So how then do protect yourself once you surmmon them?

frozen raven
magic ember
#

should one use sigils for protection or what exactly

frozen raven
#

well you should know how to use protection before hopping into summoning demons. so i would start with learning that we have #1114060224924491907 but if you are planning to use Solomons methods just know those demons may not work with you because of that

magic ember
#

where can someone learn more about demons if i may ask in depth that is

gaunt cliff
#

There's a lot of different kinds of resources, the most popular being the Ars Goetia, but aside from offering knowledge about specific demons it also tells you how to summon them. But like Ves said, you probably want to learn stuff like your preferred method of protection and probably want to avoid solomonic methods and summonings

frozen raven
#

depends on which demons as well

#

the Ars has only 72 and most are referenced through an Abrahamic lens, not all demons belong to the abrahamics and im more than sure there are more than 72

gaunt cliff
#

I also think it's important to mention, too that genuine intentions are pretty important when working with all kinds of entities, especially demons. They'll probably ignore your efforts and wants if you don't know what you want or if what you want is something like "I just wanna be cool and summon demons"

#

Opinion^^

faint walrus
frozen raven
#

the demons that are referenced in the Goetia dont like solomon because of how he utilized his methods. So use of them, in an effort to get them to work with you isnt a great start at a relationship like that (IMO)

frozen raven
#

i think em has that book too and i need her to give me a review eyeBrow

magic ember
#

*one wants from them

frozen raven
magic ember
frozen raven
#

thats... not true?

#

i dont know where you heard that but if demons knew the present and future they would not have been ||enslaved|| by solomon to make his text

magic ember
#

thats from what i read from lesser key

frozen raven
#

oh so from solomon who as stated isnt exactly the best when it comes to 100% accurate info on demons because he yk... forced them to do things

#

there may be some that know the future. but the future isnt static and constantly changes.

even with things like Fates (from greek mythos) its not set in stone and can change

hallow peak
#

The biggest things with demons tends to be respect and consent- of which Solomon had neither so most folks who work with demons heavily denounce his methods

magic ember
frozen raven
#

and the future is not constant because even within greek lore there are instances where someones fate is changed against the will of the fates

hallow peak
#

There are a million things that can change in just a few seconds. When it comes to future stuff, what you get told is usually the most likely outcome based on the current trajectory so if you make no changes, then you'll probably see what you were told. But if you do make changes to that trajectory, then the outcome might be differenr

teal cairn
#

i'm curious - if anyone here communicates with Lucifer via clairsenses, has he ever gotten irritated by you using divination tools like pendulums to confirm your downloads / sensory inputs? for both a friend and me he gets a bit "why are you still confirming with tools i've told you yes just take my word for it" type annoyed

#

it's never serious anger though, in our experience it's just him trying to get us to trust our clairsenses more

pallid summit
#

yeah! he simply stops answering me if i keep asking to confirm the same thing over and over again

#

i use mostly claircognizance and its sometimes hard to trust it, so i annoy him a lot and he gets like "COME ON!!" lmao

upbeat shuttle
#

Just wondering if there are any like immediate obvious signs that an attempt to communicate with an entity is working?

gaunt cliff
#

When signs are that obvious, they're intended to be that obvious, so don't go searching out for them. But for me, it's like a lot of symbols randomly hitting me at once followed by certain kinds of feelings. Like the same kind of animal showing up in your life a bunch, or the same word you wouldn't hear that often before. Shapes, colors, music, symbols, all kinds of stuff! Of course, the most obvious of these answers are dreams and visions where entities approach you and literally say what they want from you

gaunt cliff
upbeat shuttle
#

I've worked with him in the past but I've never really felt a strong connection to him is the thing

frozen raven
#

have you worked with other entities that have given you stronger connections?

upbeat shuttle
#

I have felt other entities in the past, changes in smells and stuff like that

#

I think it was Vual I felt in the past

#

Like an undeniable feeling

frozen raven
#

could it be that the way that he decides to communicate is less impactful than the way that you have communicated with others.

no two entities will really interact with you the same way

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean i've never really felt Barbatos' presence, but he has fulfilled my requests in the past, whereas other entities haven't really, from what I remember at least

#

I normally do a Tarot reading not long after to see if the energy is shifting or not tho lol

upbeat shuttle
gaunt cliff
upbeat shuttle
#

Since I made a request to Barbatos, I have been having odd dreams about the person I am seeking connection with, although I don't know if its because I'm completely out of it on medication or whether its the entity

#

I've never been directly approched by an entity in my dreams before though, would I need to request that from the entity or is that something that they must decide to do

gaunt cliff
#

You should start keeping a dream journal and see if the dreams persist after the meds/after you adjust to them. Look for common keys between the dreams, but even just writing them down will help you remember and understand these dreams better

upbeat shuttle
#

Yeah, well my medication can influence my dreams a lot, but this person appearing in my dreams is a common theme, but I will start to keep note on what happens, should I pick my brain for what I remember in my last dream and go from there?

gaunt cliff
#

I think if you have these dreams over and over again, they'll change or stop once you get the meaning you're supposed to

#

That's assuming that they're a sign from some deity

upbeat shuttle
#

Could tarot shed some light on this?

gaunt cliff
#

Totally, I think divination can always help when you're looking for answers

#

That's how I think most communicatoin with spirits and deities is done

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair, alright thank you šŸ™‚

upbeat shuttle
#

Can I request that an entity show me in a dream the progress that has been made in my request?

#

Or would that be entirely up to the entityt?

frozen raven
#

I mean you can request but there's no guarantee they'll show you

pallid summit
#

i think you can! it's like asking for a sign, but it will of course be up to the entity if they do it or not /gen

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
#

Ah thank you, sorry fell asleep haha

#

I did ask the tarot if the entity influenced my dream and I got the VI of Pentacles so I'm gojng to take that as a yes

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok so I just communicated with him again, but this time the candle grew quite tall and I had this almost physical feeling that something was there, I am to take it that this is a good sign I communicated with him right?

#

Because normally I don't have any kind of reaction, I normally just go off the movements of the candle to determine if the entity is there, but like I said this time was really different

frozen raven
#

sure you could say so!

upbeat shuttle
#

Just wondering, I decided to step back from Tarot yesterday after making my request more clear to the entity and I was wondering if me stepping back from the readings will show the entity that I am trusting in the process or if it is making no difference other than keeping me in the dark?

#

Because I did tell the entity that I was going to put my trust in the process and in my mind trust is something that needs to be shown rather than said

frozen raven
#

well the issue is that if you're trusting a process then you need to be able to step back from the process in order to trust that it's going to work.

#

the main thing with a majority of the questions you ask is that your conversations with your entitƩs are going to be what you and them make of them not how we interpret them

#

we can't tell you how this entity is going to be taking the actions that you're making because we aren't them

#

if that makes sense

upbeat shuttle
#

I did kinda communicate to him that I have doubts but am willing to step back in hopes that being honest will lead to a better outcome

frozen raven
#

like for me I would say that's fine šŸ¤· trust the process by not checking in on it okay cool. but I'm not the entity so i can't say how they will react

upbeat shuttle
#

Thats fair, yeah I do understand that and to be honest I kinda thought that if I stepped back then it would show that despite my doubts, I am willing to put them aside to let him work and not in a way micromanage it all

#

I mean he did fulfil my request when I asked him to show me in a dream what was actually happening on the other end of my request so I know that something is moving, slowly but surely

upbeat shuttle
#

So I did a tarot reading in relation to the entity, would I ask for interpretations here or in #1114756273913741312 ?

#

Cuz it was a reading about a demon so kinda links to both chats and now im confused

hallow peak
#

Either one works!

upbeat shuttle
#

Well I asked how the entity Barbatos feels about me stepping back from Tarot for 2 days which I've just done and I got Temperance Reversed, which I was not expecting at all lmao

#

I'm a bit confused on what it might mean

hallow peak
#

You can always ask for clarifying cards, but also you're allowed to just take break from things without getting the opinions of the entities in your space

upbeat shuttle
#

Its more because I asked the entity for a request and I wonder how my actions affect the timing of the outcome

frozen raven
#

your actions may not at all effect the entity at all if the request is something that will not be impacted by your lack on involvement.

I understand neededing reassurance from your entity to feel confident but there are instances when you need to step back and trust the process as well

upbeat shuttle
#

So when it comes to asking for communication from someone who I'm not in contact with, would I step back for that?

frozen raven
#

are you actively taking steps to establish communication in that aspect on your own?

#

because much like with all things that have to do with spirituality and magic and deities they can't do all the work for you so if it's something like asking for communication you have to be able to establish that kind of thing as well

upbeat shuttle
#

ye, from what I gathered in my last request from Barbatos he did send a sign when it was time to communicate and it lead to a few conversations

#

The issue is it is far more complicated this time

#

I'll probably ask if the entity can give me almost like an epithany on what to do next tho

upbeat shuttle
#

Is that something I can ask the entity? For an epithany on what to do?

frozen raven
#

epiphany?

upbeat shuttle
#

yeah, like a clear, distinct sign of what to do

frozen raven
#

I mean you definitely could but you have to keep in mind that the way that this Epiphany might come to you may not be exactly what it is that you're expecting so it would be best to do so and then be hypervigilant about the signs and stuff like that

upbeat shuttle
#

So I would have no way of knowing how this might come about then?

frozen raven
#

a lot of the Times it my difficult to have to do with the that sometimes the things that you get from the people you work with are not easily identifiable.

sometimes things happen and you have to then interpret the things happening to you. it's not all clear cut answers and it will be hard to ask for specifics because there's no guarantee that the entity can do it for you in a way that matches what you want

#

asking for an epiphany can come in a lot of different ways you could ask further after having said Epiphany but there's no way for you to 100% see the trajectory of this event

upbeat shuttle
#

I was just more thinking asking for like a mental epiphany on what to do if that makes sense?

frozen raven
#

I mean you could definitely ask

#

we can't really tell you how you should go about doing these things because we're not you and we don't have the same relationship you do with who you're working with

#

we can tell you how we would go about things but if they're not what are comfortable for you then it won't necessarily work in your favor

#

personally if I'm telling my entity that I'm taking a break from worship I'm going to take a break and let them handle things

#

if im needed they'll let me know

upbeat shuttle
#

So would it be worth saying to Barbatos that I'm going to take a step back and leave him to handle it and to let me know when I am needed?

frozen raven
#

if that's the trajectory or plan that works best for you yes

upbeat shuttle
#

Well idk because theres not much I can do with what i've ask for until Barbatos does the first part of what is needed for the outcome, so idk, I mean I could ask him to show me the best course of action i can do from my end whether it be step back or take control again

frozen raven
#

yeah and that's a perfectly feasible kind of request to be asking because it is a situation that involves you and if he feels like you need to be more involved then that would work for you as well

#

again we can't make these decisions for you if you feel like that might be the best way for you to go about that definitely don't hesitate to ask that from him

upbeat shuttle
#

I just said his Enn and now my candle is really dancing, like properly dancing, this never happened before? Is it good sign he is here?

#

No draft or movement, just a vigorous dance

hallow peak
#

Could be!

upbeat shuttle
#

Yeah, ferrets went crazy not long after so I began communicating and as soon as I finished saying that I would step back unless instructed otherwise the candle grew quite tall so I'm taking that as a good sign

upbeat shuttle
#

So I did ask if Barbatos would fufil my request next week and got The Star, I got this after I communicated me stepping back and I am unsure on how to interpret it, but if it is positive then this will probably be my last reading for a while

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
#

So its positive in terms of my request being done next week then? With hope faither renewal etc...?

frozen raven
#

sorry I misread your question

upbeat shuttle
#

Because I asked him directly as well and my candle grew quite tall so i used tarot to check

frozen raven
#

I think in terms of it being fulfilled it's pretty much saying "hey if you trust me you'll let me handle it."

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok, so just kinda trust in the process then?

frozen raven
#

it's very much in my opinion a trust the process kind of card it's possible that he might finish it in the week but it's not guaranteed

#

ye

upbeat shuttle
#

I did communicate with him that I'm stepping back because I don't really want to mess up the timeline he has set out for it and that I would let him handle it unless he instructed otherwise

#

So I'll step back from Tarot then unless I get a clear sign to step in, thank you šŸ™‚

upbeat shuttle
#

I did do one more reading to get an understanding of how I can get the outcome I have been hoping for an I got 7 of Wands so I am seeing that as holding my ground, along with the star it could to me suggest hold my ground, trust the process and resist urges to get involved to get the outcome I want. Am I along the right lines? (I'm trying to interpret the cards myself but I still need a little help until I feel confident if thats ok :))

frozen raven
#

I would say that's a pretty solid interpretation

upbeat shuttle
#

Alright thanks, I'll probably wait until Sunday next week before I do another reading then if nothing has changed to see where the situation is at. Thank you šŸ™‚ (Also I do apologise if I ask too much, ik I come here a lot lmao)

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok sorry for this, I know I said I wouldn't do another reading but I ended up doing one yesterday, so in response I communicated with Barbatos and apologised but also asked that if I can go without doing a reading until this Sunday, can he get someone to communicate with me, now I seemed to get a positive response with a tall flame, and I said that if he didn't agree then to tell me in a vivid dream so there is no misunderstandings and I didn't have a vivid dream last night, so I am wondering what are the chances that if I continue to commit to no readings, that this person will contact me by Wednesday next week as agreed (Or at least think has been agreed)?

hallow peak
#

I mean the key thing with putting yourself on a reading break is that it's your decision. You don't necessarily need his approval if you feel like it will benefit you, but that also requires you sticking to it

To actually answer your question, possibly, but future stuff is so wibbly wobbly that it's hard to day for sure especially with exact days

upbeat shuttle
#

I did kinda say between Sunday and Wednesday for him to fulfil what I'd asked if I can show I trust the process through no readings, I am aware of the difficulty with timing and stuff which I why I thought a timeframe might be best

frozen raven
#

setting a timeframe and expecting it done within that when you told him that you would trust the process in this can make it be a contradictory responce from you /lh

#

i feel like being impatient and breaking your break to respond 3 (sorry since you said yesterday it was 2) 2 days into what you said you would be a true break isnt really trusting the process or trusting him to complete the task youve asked of him.

sometimes things like that can come off as micromanaging how they complete it.
its understandable that you want to see progress but you cant really force that progress to go faster than what it can through constant checking in. He (barbatos) has to still influence this other person to talk to you which depending on their will, can take time /gen

upbeat shuttle
#

I was honest with him and did say that it wasn't that I don't trust him/the process, its more I don't trust myself to react properly if what I've requested happens if that makes sense

#

To be honest he did seem to react well to everything, I had a dancing candle at first but when I started talking more it turned into a steady tall flame

#

In all honesty I'd like to hope that if he couldn't fulfil his end within the time then I'd hope he'd say that the agreement isn't possible

frozen raven
#

then you should make that known.
but you not trusting yourself could lead to micromanaging how the entity can work which can lead to them stepping back because you arent trusting the process as you said you were going to

upbeat shuttle
#

yeah, in all honesty the timeframe isn't impatience, its more me saying in a cryptic way that I'll show I can trust him but he needs to show that I can trust him, because trust for me is very hard to come by

#

trust goes both ways for me, if I show trust then it has to be shown back to me

frozen raven
#

but putting a timelimit on trust can be complicated when your asking for him to be able to influence someone elses actions in your favor

#

like your making something that even a normal person would have difficulty in doing within a specific timeframe and then putting all your trust in him based on this outcome.

which if thats how you plan to work with them by all means, but it can also be difficult for them to work with and the constant checking in can also make that harder/gen/nm

im not trying to speak on or for entites but just putting out there why you may be getting the responces you are.

hallow peak
#

Trust is built over time. Not in a matter of weeks /gen

#

I trust my husband and my best friend because that's something we've built together over the years
I trust my Patron and some of the other entities in my practice because I've known them for a while and they've consistently shown that I can trust them. Which they do because I am willing to trust them and they see that

frozen raven
#

some entities also need clear communication not cryptic types of responses/requests. if your boundaries are that you need tasks done in a timeframe for you to build trust then you should make that clear.
otherwise your expecting them to react like an all knowing and all powerful being who can change fate and will on a whim. which isnt the case for most entities

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair, I'll communicate with him soon and just clarify that it is more for me to build trust rather than needing everything rushed

frozen raven
#

i tend to reach and communicate with my deities in a sort of "im autstic and i need to over explain myself" manner which is what works for us. but just making your needs and requests clear can help with the responses you recieve in my experience

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair, I'll talk with him later and see how he responds, ilyk what happens if I can't understand it haha

#

I tend to be either really cryptic or overshare everything, there is no inbetween with me lmao

frozen raven
#

rip i feel that šŸ˜­

upbeat shuttle
#

can the entities form tests when an agreement is made? Because he reacted well to the clarification the other night but now it feels like im being tested with Tarot literally being put in my face by someone who had no clue I did tarot and an ad for something in relation to the person I want Barbatos to get to contact me. I feel like this is a test at this point but I'm still very unsure and now just stuck in a cycle of overthinking

frozen raven
#

you could ask him or this may be his way of getting you to your goal/agreement being fulfilled.

if you have this whole issue in the back of your subconscious it may feel like every interaction you have that even mildly relates to this issue is a sign

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean part of me thinks he is trying to see if I will break the deal when tempted but idk if im just paranoid rn haha

frozen raven
#

sometimes entities (and demons specifically) will test boundaries like that to make sure you are being strong willed

upbeat shuttle
#

trying to test my resu

#

trying to test my resolve in a way*

#

also bad wifi rn so sorry if im not making sense rn haha

upbeat shuttle
#

so would you say it seems more likely to be trying to push my boundaries to make sure I can be trusted to follow through on my side of the agreement

hallow peak
#

Yeah that's something demons do sometimes

upbeat shuttle
#

do they only do it if both sides, mine and theirs, can be fufilled?

frozen raven
#

hard to say

#

there is no set reason for why or if the outcome itself is guarenteed.

that goes for pretty much anything

hallow peak
#

I don't pretend to completely understand the motives of these beings. Mostly because I literally cannot /lh

upbeat shuttle
#

wdym?

#

ok, i still have bad wifi so me asking for clarification is still trying to send

#

but yeah I get the general idea haha

upbeat shuttle
#

Hey, I've completed my end of the agreement and I've not had any signs to suggest that the deal is off, I am planning on keeping away from tarot but I am to take it as a good sign that I've not had any kind of sign from Barbatos recently right?

tawny mist
upbeat shuttle
#

Essentially I said that I'd show my trust in him and that he can trust me by not doing a tarot reading for a week and he shows that I can trust him by getting someone to contact me within a 3 day period after my side had ended, I got a tall strong flame so I am to take it he agreed to the deal

tawny mist
#

hm, sometimes things take time though, it can be a process and the reality is things can't happen instantly

upbeat shuttle
#

Ye, from my understanding I know that it's a bit off to put his side into a timeframe but I explained that the thing is I have difficulty trusting those closest to me so something I can't see is an entirely different level which he seemed to understand

tawny mist
#

and with some entities it's not rlly like "if I do this then you do this," think of it as asking a friend to do a favor for you, it would probably take time and it wouldn't be something that you're able to demand from them as they are your friend

#

have you been working with this entity for a long time? because trust is something that takes a while to build

#

and with something like getting someone to contact you, it def takes time because if they don't want to talk to you that isn't going to change just overnight or even in 3 days

upbeat shuttle
#

I would imagine that he would communicate that with me though if it was impossible, rather than allow trust to be broken between me and him, I know these entities place a high value on trust, so I'd see no reason as to why he'd risk breaking that trust

tawny mist
#

also putting a time limit on something trust related based on an outcome is not really ideal, esp since this is a favor - it can be difficult for them to work with you on that and they might not want to

#

realistically this may not be something that can be done within a short time frame

#

and entities don't really think like we do, so trust may look different to them

#

the way it seems, you're approaching this like a contract but it doesn't really work like that

upbeat shuttle
#

I did explain that for me to trust I can't sit and wait for weeks to months, it's got to be something that happens in a relatively short time otherwise I can't trust, especially when I'm essentially communicating with what appears to be air

tawny mist
#

I understand, but entities don't work the same way we do, maybe you can do some divining and communicating with them to get some clarity on what's going on?

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean I got a positive response and no reason to believe that he won't come through, I made him aware that it doesn't have to be 3 days as long as I'm aware it might take longer as well.

#

As long as I'm aware that it's moving even behind the scenes then I can trust which is what I said to him

tawny mist
#

it may be helpful to ask for clarity anyway, or a confirmation

upbeat shuttle
#

Because I am aware that it might take longer than 3 days especially if unforseen circumstances arise

tawny mist
#

but this may very well be something that you just have to wait for

#

up to you how you do things but yea

upbeat shuttle
#

I just had a bit of an interesting communication with Barbatos, asked if everything was on track and had a short but dancing flame and then asked if he needed extra time and got just a short steady flame so am wondering what it means haha

frozen raven
#

tbh it sorta depends?

it might honestly be best to establish what certain types of flames mean what when it comes to flame reading but for now: #1114061678963855410 message those are our resources on candle divination

upbeat shuttle
#

wait so using candles to communicate with entities, is that an entirely different area?

#

I mean since his yes was dancing and his no was still and short, im gonna say that he is saying no he does not need extra time but that it might be later on tonight maybe pushing into early tomorrow morning

#

that sound about right?

#

if not then pls say haha

frozen raven
#

flame reading is called Pyromancy a lot of what we have is Ceromancy which is wax

#

i do not know nor can i say for certain on what he means /gen

if thats how your interpreting it then by all means but since flame reading is very intuitive it is largely based on your own personal interpretations

upbeat shuttle
#

I did a tarot reading for clarity and I got some really good cards for it

echo fog
# upbeat shuttle I mean since his yes was dancing and his no was still and short, im gonna say th...

I just wanted to make a suggestion in case you found it helpful, sometimes clarifying what yes means and what no means out loud can help make the communication a bit better. For me, I use my necklace/pendulum when reconfirming my answers with Beelzebub to make sure I understand our conversation. I always let him know that clockwise is yes, counterclockwise is no, and swinging it back and forth is maybe/idk. Maybe with your flame readings you can do something similar with Barbatos? I hope that helps a little bit

upbeat shuttle
upbeat shuttle
#

I mean right now I seem to be having really odd dreams every night, especially last night, and they seem to be increasingly unique since Wednesday passed (End of Barbatos agreement)

upbeat shuttle
upbeat shuttle
#

Can I ask for a one or the other request from an entity, because if he can do something tonight, then he will need to, if not I want him to focus elsewhere

frozen raven
#

i mean sure you can do what you want with your entities

#

however I do want to let you know that if you're going to be expecting entities to be able to give you exactly what you want within a very specific time frame without also being willing to look for alternative ways in which they could have completed their task then you might be setting yourself up for disappointment when it comes to entity interaction

#

because there is every chance that they could have completed their task in a way that they felt fit within the lines of what they were doing but you're not willing to look out for that so it's not something that you're willing to take into consideration.

ultimatums are fine if that's how you choose to practice but not a lot of entities are going to be open to working with somebody who gives them ultimatums in the first place, on tasks that are dependent on the free will of other people that aren't you.

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok that's sound, was just wondering, I'm gonna have to wait an hour or so on an update with something and then if it's not good I'll proceed to ask him to drop the reconnection and focus on that instead because it's more important

frozen raven
#

and depending on what the task is you may need to instead focus on working on that yourself things that are time sensitive or that you need to be done within a timely manner might need to be something that you don't leave up to divine intervention

#

and I would say that you may also need to take into consideration that the person you want to reconnect with may not want to reconnect with you.

at least not within the time frame that you're wanting them to

#

actually ignore what I was saying earlier about ultimatums I think I misread your first question incorrectly.

you can definitely ask them to switch tasks but it may mean that the task that they are switching to may need more time to complete it so I would just keep that in mind

upbeat shuttle
#

Yeah its not an ultimatum, its just I'd much rather Barbatos focus his energy entirely on another sitatuation unless this current one can be resolved tonight, thats the thing, if it can be done tonight then it'd be best, not because I want it rushed but because I'd rather Barbatos focus his full energy elsewhere in a situation that I am powerless in, I cannot do anything regarding this sudden situation so I want to turn to Barbatos for help on it

frozen raven
#

no your okay i misread the question!

upbeat shuttle
#

Ah fair, so I can ask that if the old situation can be resolved tonight, do it, if not I want him to focus entirely on something else which is more important right now?

#

So basically
Either

  • Resolve situation tonight.
    or
  • Focus entirely on another more pressing issue

I would rather his energy not be split between 2 situations given the importance of one

#

Ok I just had a realisation, in that Barbatos wants me to do this in the Queen of Cups I got earlier

#

He wants me to tell him to drop the old situation over this more pressing one

#

he is good, i will give him that

winged skiff
#

Working with demons are like having a transformation that, was supposed to be in five years, being condensed in a span of three months. Truly an experience.

upbeat shuttle
#

No idea what that means, sorry haha. I am however interested as to what would happen if I challenged Barbatos, challenge that faith, as I am someone who challenges blind faith and need tangeble results. I am wondering as to whether he'd appreciate my honesty?

#

Also he seems to of chosen the 1st option but gave clear sign for more time than that night

#

He seems to be pushing me to challenge the situation and question stuff like what he can do

frozen raven
#

and I think sometimes we as people tend to push our wants on to entities in order to view them in a light that would make the most sense to us

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean he has given signs that he can do what I've asked but has given signs that he needs time, but I'm wondering why I am having dreams and thoughts that challenge him directly

frozen raven
#

like making it so you think that Barbados is up for being challenged when it may just be that he cannot/will not complete the task that you are setting him up for as it requires the challenging the will of other people

#

maybe because you subconsciously challenge him? by continuously checking in on him, asking him about how it's going, or being overtly worried about the outcome, that could manifest in your subconscious and extend outwards in your dreams

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean don't get me wrong, I think that challenging faith is good as I personally believe it can strengthen the faith. I can see how my worrys might influence my dreams. One of my main issues is that I need to constantly confirm with tarot about messages in my dreams because of the amount of meds I take and the fact that they severely impact my dreams and other stuff that I dont wanna go into

frozen raven
#

and you don't need to but dreams are also something that are influenced by your subconscious they're not entirely or inherently spiritual.

and reading on something continuously can cause you to get mixed answers depending on what it is that you're reading on.

and I'm not saying that challenging faith is a bad thing I am saying that challenging them by only explicitly asking for "tangible" results can be very hard when they aren't tangible beings themselves

tawny mist
#

to me entities are a lot like people, think about it like asking a friend for a favor

frozen raven
#

like if you're asking for them to change the will of others in order to get closer to a goal you want if they aren't comfortable with doing that and they don't have the means to then you may be setting them up for failure before they can even get started

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

interaction worship devotion

tawny mist
#

^

#

I'm no ping /lh

frozen raven
#

those are things that some entities find helpful or useful cuz otherwise what would be the point of existing if you aren't able to be acknowledged by others

tawny mist
#

but think about it like building a relationship with a friend, you don't ask them for a favor in exchange for your friendship, it's an relationship that comes from effort on both sides

upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

also entities don't work the same way as we do, demanding a time frame isn't really helpful and they might not want to do it

frozen raven
#

but it seems like you aren't because you still continue to push the issue of this being the only way that you are willing to work with them if that's the case.

does that make sense like you've set this up to be a sort of ultimatum in that if he cannot do this for you then the worship or working with or interactions you were giving him are no longer going to be something that you do

#

because as you stated before you need tangible results for your faith to work for him

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

which if that's the case for you that's entirely fine nobody's saying that it's wrong we're just saying that that may be why he hasn't or cannot get it done for you.

tawny mist
#

also entities do have their own autonomy and can choose whether or not to help you /lh

frozen raven
#

and another thing on top of this is that you also have to be willing to put in the effort and work to make that reconnection possible you cannot and should not just rely purely on Barbados doing the work for you.

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

because if you're relying purely on Barbados being the one to do it then you're not putting in the effort of making it happen which is not how things like this work.

tawny mist
#

it's kinda like manifesting where you also have to take action yourself to set it up so that it can happen

#

basically putting yourself in the position to recieve

#

and like a frienship it's not really realistic to ask a friend for a favor with an ultimanum yk?

upbeat shuttle
upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

it kind of feels like that though? you're ultimately saying that you need him to do something for you or you won't continue your working relationship with him

#

unless I'm misreading the situation

upbeat shuttle
#

If he clearly shows signs that he cannot do what I've asked then I'm not gonna completely stop working with him, but if he doesn't communicate with me then I won't with him; trust, communication etc... is a 2 way street with me, I give it with the expectation that its reciprocated.

tawny mist
#

I understand that, but they may not necesarily want to communicate with you in that way all the time

frozen raven
#

have you asked him out right if he is unable to do this task?

because you keep saying that he's showing you signs but you're not saying what those signs are unless they're the dreams

tawny mist
#

and some entities don't like working with continuous checkups like that

#

also maybe it's not that he's unable but that he doesn't want to /lh

upbeat shuttle
#

like a lot of positive signs

#

from those 2

frozen raven
#

and another thing is that you're saying that you want clear communication except when you offered to put away that communication you then went back on your word which may in their eyes be something like "oh okay so they're free to go back on their word"

tawny mist
#

signs can also be misinterpreted by personal bias so it may be helpful to ask for a yes/no

frozen raven
#

again have you explicitly asked him outright?

upbeat shuttle
upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

another thing is he might be reacting positively towards you but not saying outright that he will do it

frozen raven
#

you said that you would put away any forms of communication and checking in on him and then you immediately did so the next day.

tawny mist
#

tbh it does seem like you're taking without give, maybe it would also be better if you established a better relationship with the entity first? communicating more often, doing more worship, devotion, etc.

#

you can build trust that way instead of asking for something

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
tawny mist
#

I understand that you only started working with him recently?

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

yes you did stop communication for the rest of the week but you showed him in that action that you are a person that can and has gone back on what they have said

tawny mist
#

ah ok I see

upbeat shuttle
upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

but it is you like you did that action yes it may be something that you need to do because of situations like mental health but you did that.

and if your mental health is not in a situation where you can trust a process to be done while you are not constantly checking in on it then you may need to step back and reevaluate how you interact with or accept help from entities who may not be able to do that for you

#

perhaps a working relationship that you have with an entity can only be purely transactional and if that's the case then you may need to step back on what it is you're expecting of these entities.

and if you need clearer communication I would suggest having that communication rather than just taking signs as they are without giving follow-up like explicitly asking them for what it is that you need from them.

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean that is the first time in years I've gone back on my word, I don't do it unless I feel I need to and I don't want him to think of me as someone who does it whenever because it isn't me

#

In regards to anything lol not just Barbatos

#

I don't want him to think of me as someone who goes back on my word, now I am trying to think of how to rectify that

frozen raven
#

but the fact that you would break your word under something that you find stressful is something that is you.

the only way that you can do that is by proving it to him by not checking in on what he's doing constantly.

because you have come to the server to ask questions on this specific situation at about once every few days for almost 2 weeks

tawny mist
#

you need to trust the process he has

frozen raven
#

or asking him how he would want you to rectify that having a explicit and one to one conversation with you laying out all of your grievances and listening to any that he is willing to give you

upbeat shuttle
#

Tbh what I put on this server is only snippits of what is actually happening, it goes a lot deeper than what I put on this server lol

frozen raven
#

well we can only give you advice based on what we know of the situation and this is what it's coming across as

#

I'm not asking for a play by play nor do I need one but I'm just giving advice based on what I know what if I don't know something I can't give advice based on it

#

PLAY BY PLAY šŸ˜­

tawny mist
#

it's moreso the act of constantly checking, I understand there may be more to it but you have been constantly checking in

upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

it's not that~ you're more than welcome to tell us here but he may not be happy with the constant checkups

frozen raven
#

and I'm not saying it's too much but I am saying with how often and consistently you're checking in here, if you're doing more in person that could be something that he's not comfortable with

upbeat shuttle
#

I think at this point its more that I am just so use to constantly checking in that its just strange to me when I am not, like when you've watching a TV show that just ends suddenly, and u have no clue what to do

upbeat shuttle
#

ok i get all that, but one thing that is curious to me now though is that if he is uncomfortable with it, then how come he is pushing me towards looking at this situation in a deeper light, or could it be he wants me to focus on the other end of the rope, and not him whos holding it in the middle

#

terrible metaphor but conveys my question I hope haha

frozen raven
#

that would be something that you would need to ask him I think?

tawny mist
#

also he may be pushing you to look at it in a different light rather than deeper ^

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

and by different light it might be removing yourself and allowing things to happen while he takes care of things on his end like hey don't worry about what we're doing over here go fix your shit

#

yeah

tawny mist
#

he may be pushing you to look at things different because he is uncomfortable

frozen raven
#

but we can't speak for Barbados cuz we aren't him so you may need to have that conversation with him

tawny mist
#

but that's not really something we can answer

upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

I highly suggest reevaluating your intentions with entity work and working on ways to strengthen communication with him

#

yes you can absolutely use tarot

upbeat shuttle
#

what would I ask then, i am confused on how I'd phrase the question you want me to ask

frozen raven
#

so you could do this in a few different ways I would personally use yes no questions but that's just me

#

ones that don't leave room for error or interpretation might be best

tawny mist
#

you can also do pendulum communication as that may be easier to interpret than tarot

frozen raven
#

"are you pushing me to look at the situation on my end?"
"are you pushing me away from the situation?"
"do I need to step back to allow you to work better?"

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair alright I'll do some readings and see what they say. One thing I am now curious about is I noticed what you said I can offer Barbatos, as in worship and that, wondering if you got any resources for that?

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

"is my current actions making you uncomfortable with how you work?"
"are you unable to complete the task i set for you within the timeframe I've granted?"

frozen raven
#

or a string ?

tawny mist
#

you don't need money for a pendulum! it's super easy to make your own with spare items

upbeat shuttle
#

yes but nothing I can prop it up with lol

#

can't go out and get anything either cuz its nearly midnight lol

frozen raven
#

you might be able to hang it off of like a pencil taped to your desk

tawny mist
frozen raven
#

if that's something you have available

upbeat shuttle
#

I might do, i'll use tarot and if I can't gather a clear answer then I'll use a makeshift pendulum haha

upbeat shuttle
tawny mist
#

I'm no ping

upbeat shuttle
#

?

tawny mist
#

I'm no ping as it says in my roles which includes pinging in replies

frozen raven
#

we dont have any on him but we have lists with links on others which you could possibly use

upbeat shuttle
#

Alright, I'll have a look around, I've got some books on the entities so I'll quickly see if they go into it

#

Ok so from what I've gathered he isn't uncomfortable it seems he is more warning me about how fast I am trying to move this along and seems to be cautioning about moving too quickly. At least thats what I've gathered from my reading

#

But yeah I do get what you're saying though about micromanaging, its just like I said with the cryptic or oversharing, i am the same when it comes to me either micromanaging everything or being distant to a point I am not involved lmao

#

Anyways, thanks for the help tonight and I will follow through on the advice given. Thanks šŸ™‚

upbeat shuttle
#

So I had a look into a small way I can reaffirm my trust in Barbatos through prayer. Was wondering if I can dm someone and see if it would be alright to use because I am not entirely sure on it šŸ™‚

#

I have made like a small one and I just want to know if it would be alright haha

tawny mist
#

Iā€™m sure whatever it is is fine! prayer doesnā€™t have to be something polished

hallow peak
#

Sometimes prayer is "If you help me win this thing you can have it as an offering"

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean it's very formal but short, idk Ik it's not much but it's better than what I was doing before

hallow peak
#

The great thing about entity work is that you can do what works for you

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair fair, alright well I'll leave it as is for now, thank you šŸ™‚

gaunt cliff
#

Are there any demons that are associated with dreams/nightmares? If I Google "Dream demon" I get exactly what you'd imagine (Not what I'm looking for)

winged skiff
#

Sadly, i did a quick research and in one demonology book it's more of a neptune thing to rule over Sleep and Dreams

#

And most of the goetian listed demons are not exactly associated with Neptune

frozen raven
waxen raven
#

Hi Hi, I invoked Lucifer today and it was successful! Its the first time I did it where it felt right, the other times it just felt off. But after that struggle I feel more at peace and as if my mind is clearer! Anyways, onto why I'm here. Since this is my first reading with him I felt like it would be valuable to share the reading to get perspectives I may not have come to by myself (and I did ask for permission to share.) Anyways, if anyone gets a moment if someone took the time to read through this I would appreciate it so much. (yes I sent this before I sent the wrong file- whoops!)

šŸ“Ž Tarot_reading_with_Lord_Lucifer_11_30_-_Google_Docs.pdf
winged skiff
#

I'd say keep record of the session since it will come out differently once you learn divination fully

#

For example, the World that he sent might not be limited to self happiness but about self-sufficiency

#

Let it dip in and sink, come back to it once in a while to ensure the meanings

waxen raven
#

Yes yes, thank you I appreciate so much

magic ember
#

@frozen raven Question::::How do you innvock lucifer? as per your bio your lucifarian, demon worshiper

frozen raven
magic ember
#

your joking right?

#

your answer is way to much filtered

frozen raven
#

I mean... that's what I do šŸ§

frozen raven
# magic ember your answer is way to much filtered

I mean do you expect me to say a huge prayer and ask him to take my first born child or something šŸ˜­ I don't know what you want me to tell you I just ask him bc he deserves to have a say on if he helps or not?

he's my patron and I have a lot of respect for him but I just ask him if he wants to help. if he doesn't that's fine

magic ember
frozen raven
#

I use his enn when I preform prayer but that's it

#

so no

magic ember
#

what do you mean by you use his enn when performing prayers and no?

frozen raven
#

so I don't invoke him through his Enn

magic ember
#

understood

blazing dock
#

I think Stolas is going insane He just asked for ketchup catcry2

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok I have quick question, so Barbatos was signaling that he'd done all he can in terms of my request and that it would be best to continue with another entity and he gave the green light for me to work with Gaap. When I made the same request to Gaap, I told him directly to factor out my intentions and energy as due to recent events, they'll be fluctuating like mad, i did this last night and today I'm getting cards like X of Swords Reversed and The Tower which both seem to suggest imminent movement, is this normal considering I have gained insight from Barbatos and directly told Gaap to ignore my fluctuating intentions and energy?

frozen raven
#

I mean being honest what's "normal" is going to depend a lot on your specific situation.

if you feel like fast imminent movement is something that comes from them ignoring your fluctuating thought process then it could possibly be normal in your circumstances

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean I am fully aware that my emotions and intentions are all over the place right now due to some devastating news I got a few days ago, but weirdly enough Gaap seems to be sending signs, like literally a few moments ago I got a sign that was hard to ignore and Tarot confirmed it was a sign

frozen raven
#

I mean if you're getting clear answers that are clear enough for you then I would take that over anything that we have to say.

like I said whether or not this is normal depends a lot on you and your circumstances and whether or not you feel like this is an adequate answer for them ignoring you and your fluctuating emotions

upbeat shuttle
#

I told them directly to ignore my fluctuating emotions to clear the way for them lol

frozen raven
#

yes I know but I'm saying that if you feel like imminent change in the way of the tarot cards that you've been given are directly influenced by them ignoring your fluctuating emotions as you said then it may be normal in this case

#

because your question was is this normal if I asked them to ignore my fluctuating emotions and I said that might depend entirely on you and your situation if you feel like it is then it very well could be normal in your circumstances as I said earlier

upbeat shuttle
#

Ah alright, was unsure lol, I'm gonna take it as it is and just hope for the best lol

keen arrow
#

Is digging a hole to hell actually a thing

frozen raven
#

no hell is not a physical place

keen arrow
upbeat shuttle
#

Are entities known for a sort of calm before the storm when it comes to fulfilling requests? Like the mind goes quiet and everything feels right. This is not typical for me so I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this and what it could mean

frozen raven
#

personally no but it may be how they are to you bongocat

#

it could just mean that they are locking into the final stretch of what they are doing? but i cant say for certian

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair, I'm just wondering because it's just odd for my mind to completely shut off like this

winged skiff
#

Does anyone have rather modern book recommendations about demonolatry?

hallow peak
#

I don't think I do. A lot of the more modern sources I've seen have used Solomon's stuff as a major reference point because apparently only the worst people in a pagan, witchy, or occult field ever have their books published /salty /lh

#

That plus the rampant appropriation

winged skiff
#

Oh let's not even talk about the qlipoth usage sigh

short vector
faint walrus
#

#1114061112816717865 message

#

Thereā€™s no one solid book tho, unfortunately. They are a mixed bunch and itā€™s really important when going through them to cross-check information and use your own discernment

winged skiff
#

Thank you Mimi!

summer gorge
frozen raven
summer gorge
olive tapir
#

i wouldnā€™t recommend communicating w demons then

#

iā€™d learn basics first

frozen raven
#

through means of divination Clairsenses Dream work astral travel

however if you are just starting off I would suggest not jumping straight into demon work until you have your basics down you should not be jumping into work with any type of entity until you know how to protect yourself how to communicate and how to make sure that you and your space are safe

#

šŸ«¶ EM usagilove allmylove

olive tapir
#

HI grOLI

summer gorge
frozen raven
frozen raven
odd field
#

Anyone know of a good offering for belial? I know alcohol of course and earth based items.

frozen raven
# odd field Anyone know of a good offering for belial? I know alcohol of course and earth ba...

this list came from a tumblr post so just be aware of massive amounts of UPG and personal bias
foods:
beef liver, smoked salmon, lobster, caviar, truffle chocolates, veal, veal fillet, pigeon meat, ostrich meat, basmati rice, truffle mushrooms, ground black pepper, cinnamon
flowers:
Siberian ginseng, red roses, white roses, black roses
objects:
daggers, katanas, longswords, mahogany writing desks, expensive pens, expensive wristwatches, Italian leather menā€™s shoes, expensive menā€™s coats (high society), bonsai trees, fancy chess boards, black dice with white dots, fancy playing cards (preferably black and white), expensive colognes
crystals & metals:
black marble, black tourmaline, black star sapphires, snowflake obsidian, peridot, gold, gold foil in oil, silver

and ofc things he's associated with:
Tarot: 6 of Swords
Planet: Sun
Metal: Gold
Element: Fire (Earth) (Under Corson)
Color: Yellow
Plant: Mullein
Incense: Frankincense

if you would like some more things like acts of devotion:

  • looking into your local politics
  • study and vote on local laws
  • shadow work
#

actually I don't know if ginseng is like a flower so if it's not just ignore the placement of that

#

I'll prob make a proper list later šŸ«”

odd field
#

Thank you!

lean wren
#

I just did a massive clean up for Earl FurFur as an offering to him, I'm so tired lol

frozen raven
#

hope you get to rest!

upbeat shuttle
#

I've been working with Duke Dantalion for a few days properly and it has honestly been amazing, personally did not expect to see such quick changes around me. Has anyone else had great experiences with Dantalion?

#

I moved my request from Barbatos to Gaap and Dantalion and then just focused on working with Dantalion for internal alignment and the speed in which he has worked is incredibly amazing and something I did not expect

upbeat shuttle
#

I think the key was breaking it down in the smaller manageable steps, because after I did that I saw tangable results in 4 hours after, which was truely amazing

#

Is there anything I can do that can show my gratitude, because normally I take people out for drinks but I don't think I can do that with Dantalion

frozen raven
#

you can offer him something or pour out water for him

#

and by offer I mean like make him an offering of honor.

tardy raven
#

Hey is there a book with all demons lores?

frozen raven
#

hmmm not all of them but there are a few that have most of them. The issue with a lot of those books is their blantant appropriation of some figures and misinfo around them (particualrly when it comes to the religious roots of a lot of Islamic and Jewish based entites)

tardy raven
#

Oh I see because I wanna work with Stolas and Asmodeus and Androus

faint walrus
tardy raven
#

Ooo thank you I actually want to learn all of them to it's very interesting

frozen raven
#

we also have the #1114061545916354560 channel

tardy raven
#

šŸ‘šŸ½

upbeat shuttle
#

Just wondering what does Lord Lucifer expect when you communicating with him? I plan to ask him for something meaningful to me but I don't wanna overstep

frozen raven
#

gonna depend on you and him

upbeat shuttle
#

I mean we seem to be alright but I've never asked him for anything before lol

frozen raven
#

however from my experience: he's somebody that really dislikes when you insist on checking up on him every 5 minutes for updates on what it is that he's doing because he knows what he's doing and he doesn't need to be micromanaged.

he hates when I don't leave it to him and just butt out lol

upbeat shuttle
#

Nah fair, tbh I kinda think it'll be easier knowing that a lord is overseeing it, I want him to align Asmodeus and Paimon to work together and don't want any friction

frozen raven
#

hmmm so personally as somebody that is a sort of beacon of free will I don't know that he will be very fond of forcing demons to work well together with no friction.

that seems more like it's something you need to discuss with your spiritual team to make sure they're all on the same page rather than assigning it to a third party

upbeat shuttle
#

spiritual team? u mean like Asmodeus and Paimon and see their feelings on working together first and if they consent then just ask Lucifer to check in every now and again?

frozen raven
#

a spiritual team is essentially the entities that you work with

what I mean is you need to sit down and tell them that they need to work together on this. I don't necessarily think that you need somebody to check in on it šŸ¤·

because it seems like when you're telling them that they need Lucifer's supervision on something like this that you don't trust them to be able to do it on their own and are essentially assigning them a babysitter, which is again where that sort of micromanaging comes in

upbeat shuttle
#

Fair, alright I'll leave lucifer alone lol

frozen raven
#

like Lucifer isn't a babysitter and Paimon and Asmodeus are both demons who have been around for a long time and if you don't trust them to do this in a way that's compatible then why assign it to them at all? if that makes sense

upbeat shuttle
#

I do trust them, I just have had bad experiences in the past lol so my trust is kinda knocked in all demons rn lol

frozen raven
#

my thing is that you're working with demons right who are very anti authority and free will driven beings but you insist on micromanaging their every move with everything that you ask of them which kind of confuses me on why you would aim for demons of all beings to do this with

#

like if this is how you choose to practice that's fine you do you but like demons aren't known for responding well to being micromanaged through history. like they can work together they can communicate but expecting them to be watched over like children because you're afraid they're going to start fighting is rather weird? imo

upbeat shuttle
#

yeah ngl I've stepped back from micromanaging since just before christmas and really didn't have the emotional capasity to check in and I just want to make sure this is gonna go ok

frozen raven
#

and if I'm honest
if your trust is rather knocked in all beings that you end up working with you may need to work on that before jumping into entity work as a whole

#

because that seems like a barrier that you keep running into when you're interacting with these beings that causes you to become frustrated in a way that you need constant help with

upbeat shuttle
#

like i said, i stepped back from micromanaging just before christmas, all I'm gonna say is i'm really not in an emotional capacity to do this rn but all I really needed was the first few messages where you said about Lucifers supervision and that was it, but yet after that it just felt like you were attacking the way I use to work.

frozen raven
#

entities and specifically demons aren't children that you need to constantly watch over or have been monitored in order for them to fulfill your goals in the way that you want.

and I'm not attacking you but this is not the first time that you've had these kinds of questions about needing to monitor and get consistent and frequent feedback from your spiritual team

upbeat shuttle
#

While I appreciate input, I don't appreciate being critisied for the way I use to work

frozen raven
#

and the way that you use work is you coming into the server and constantly asking us to give you advice because you aren't communicating with your own team

upbeat shuttle
#

All I'm saying is it seems like an attack. I'm not dealing with this right now because like I said, I am not in an emotional headspace to. I asked about working with Lucifer since he is a powerful entity that I want to ensure I was working with correctly and now for some reason you bring in how I use to work

frozen raven
#

I'm giving you feedback because you've asked questions like this before and a tad constantly at that.

you can't treat them like kids who need your constant supervision. entities are autonomous beings they don't necessarily need you to hand hold them through what it is that you want from them.

#

no I'm bringing in how you're asking him to micromanage your own team because you're not going to communicate with them.

which is what I said in my first message about how he doesn't appreciate being micromanaged.

#

but I'm going to go ahead and leave this conversation for now feel free to take whatever advice you want or don't

tawny mist
#

i feel it may be useful for you to re evaluate entity work as a whole, these are beings with their own autonomy. i feel like thereā€™s a difference between stepping back because youā€™re emotionally drained and stepping back because itā€™s a good thing to do.

it isnā€™t our intention to attack, we genuinely want you to get the best results, it just seems like this issue is a repeated occurrence so weā€™re suggesting it may be time to step back and re evaluate.

I hope this comes across as /lh and /gen

#

at this point, the way this has been handled doesnā€™t seem very sustainable as you keep coming back with similar issues, weā€™re truly trying to help and wish the best for you

upbeat shuttle
#

Like I said, I'm very forgetful and just wanna get it right, even if I have to double check. Now I am taking notes and trying to understand the input but you gotta understand it takes a while to sink in with me because of my disabilities. I believe these are powerful entities that I want to work with and I just want to ensure I get it right šŸ™‚

faint walrus
#

working with demons is entirely different than working with other entities too, especially because of the fact that they are free-will and anti-authority like oli mentioned. because they work very closely in shadow work / darker energies, working with them will inevitably force you into a spot where youā€™ll need to confront that feeling of not trusting yourself / trusting them anyway. this is not to say that what youā€™re doing is wrong, but it is to say that you will have to eventually deal with it because working with demons also corresponds to working with your shadow work by triggering it

#

it can be a lot emotionally, but as someone who worked under Lucifer for a really long time, developing your own innate trust in yourself also means developing trust in your infernal team to do things. even if it takes time or shows up in a way that you were not expecting

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok one of the things I'm confused about now, is that my cards indicated that something had stalled at one point and I asked why and interpreted the response as emotional detachment from my end, so now my head is splitting on what to do cuz you say to detach and trust but they say detaching caused delays

faint walrus
#

what cards did you pull?

#

there are also different ways in how people detach

#

you can detach from an outcome but not the work itself

upbeat shuttle
#

hold up I've gtg find my book lol, I remember the interpretation but not the cards cuz it confused me then as well

faint walrus
#

okie

upbeat shuttle
#

The hanged man for progress and queen of swords for why delay, when asking if on my end I got 3 of swords which said yes due to context of the day

frozen raven
#

why do you believe that the hangman means that the progress was stalled? /genq

faint walrus
#

to me hanged man means to look at the situation from a different perspective, not necessarily being stagnant

upbeat shuttle
#

because i interpret it as delays in terms of progress

frozen raven
upbeat shuttle
#

thats what I was taught it means

frozen raven
#

whoops sorry mimi

faint walrus
#

queen of swords to me would indicate needing to be more logical instead of emotional which is why the three of swords popped up

#

es okie šŸ’ž

frozen raven
#

NO SORRY I MEAN YHE EMOTE

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

this is essentially how I would interpret that hanged man:

When The Hanged Man appears in a Tarot reading, your projects and activities may be coming to an unexpected and abrupt halt. Donā€™t keep pushing forward, hoping that more force will drive you to where you want to go. Instead, surrender to the opportunity to pause and view it as your chance to reassess and re-evaluate where you are on your path. Something new is emerging, and you wonā€™t be able to see it unless you allow the time and space for it to come through.

#

it's a chance for you to step back reassess how your coming at this as a whole then move forward. I don't think there's like detachment there. the queen is there more on a "you need to step back to think about this from a logical rather than emotional stand point"

if your getting emotionally drained or are fustrated with the results that could be why the queen showed up

upbeat shuttle
#

I'm emotionally drained with other stuff, not demons but problem is I can't exactly detach from whats draining me right now so I'm just detaching from whatever I can right now

frozen raven
#

like the reason why your outcome could be delayed is because either the universe or your spiritual team is taking that sort of guiding hand to make it pause so you can reevaluate or you need to do so yourself before you burn out

#

yeah and detaching from just whatever may not be the result you need bc that's not addressing your issue, it's just pushing it aside.

if you're detaching yourself and then not addressing the reason why you need to detach from this specifically then you're not really addressing anything or reevaluating like what the hanged man seems to be saying you need to do

#

does that make sense

upbeat shuttle
#

I can't address why I need to detach, just understand that it is too heavy and happened to quickly for the 2nd time in 2024.

faint walrus
#

maybe itā€™s not necessarily that you need to detach but by looking at your practice with these demons more logically

#

queen of swords is someone who has been hurt in the past, but therefore uses that hurt to look at the future and present from a more objective lens

frozen raven
#

yes yes! Mimi said it simpler than I did šŸ™

faint walrus
#

youā€™re not negating your feelings by looking at it objectively, itā€™s simply just another perspective

frozen raven
#

I'd like three paragraphs

upbeat shuttle
faint walrus
#

also like - imo itā€™s kinda hindering if youā€™re not really broadening your lens on the cards themselves too. hanged man and all of that jazz is a lot more in depth than what it feels like youā€™re grasping and thatā€™s also leading to more confusion

upbeat shuttle
#

Alright, ngl I think I know what it was trying to say and it makes sense. Like a lot a lot of sense

#

cheers

frozen raven
#

I would say think of it like a long-term sort of fight:
if you've been in a fight for so long and you're not making progress you need to pull back reassess why you keep losing and then move forward with either a new plan or with that in mind? if that makes sense?

like a "time to regroup folks" type thing

stoic drift
#

Question for people who work with Goetic Demons: How can you tell when a spell you did with them pays off?

#

Wait thatā€™s not how I wanted to ask that but thatā€™s another thing
Uhh
Can you see/sense them

#

Like
Irl or in dreams for example

hallow peak
#

Well just like with any entity, the seeing or sensing them isn't done with physical senses like how I can see another person. It's more in the mind, but dreams are also very possible!

#

As for how to tell is a spell pays of or is successful, that's gonna depend on the spell

stoic drift
#

Also I saw notes about making an entire summoning circle (i found an Ars Goetia PDF online), is that something needed?

faint walrus
#

1.) depends on the spell, money can happen instantly or very soon, glamours work almost instantly, protections work as soon as you complete them, etc
2.) clairsenses
3.) no

frozen raven
#

sobs finally finished barbatos thing just 7 more to go šŸ˜­ #1114061545916354560 message

upbeat shuttle
#

Quick question, is it Lord Paimon or King Paimon because I've seen both used and now I am confused as I don't wanna get it wrong, I've been referring to him as Lord but just wanna check

hallow peak
#

His official title is King

upbeat shuttle
#

Ah ok thank you

frozen raven
#

some people refer to all entities as Lord or lady even if they have separate titles

upbeat shuttle
#

My curiousity is peaked, why?

frozen raven
#

I think this is mostly done because people don't understand how like titles pair with like royalty statuses so instead of highness it would be Lord

#

I don't call anybody Lord lady King queen, etc simply because I just don't care enough to

but it would be like using sir or ma'am for somebody who's older than you but you're not sure exactly how old

#

Lord and Lady tend to be the default ways of addressing as opposed to saying like King pylon

#

PAIMON šŸ˜­ who tf is pylon

upbeat shuttle
frozen raven
#

same šŸ˜­ it's my "grew up in TX" gene

#

I legit call my cats sir and ma'am 0handshake

#

but yeah I personally believe it's just like the go-to input instead of figuring out the title simply because a lot of these beings also tend to have a lot of different titles so like some have the title of Earl but other sources have their title as Duke etc etc so lord/lady is a good fall back if you aren't sure yk?

upbeat shuttle
#

Ah yeah fair thanks šŸ™‚

stoic drift
#

How would one initially start working with the Goetic demons

#

(Ik Iā€™ve asked this a million times, sorry)

frozen raven
#

kind of depends on the demon in question and if you ever done any work before

#

demons are pretty much just like any other entities so you start working with them the same way that you would with any other entity the only difference is that their demons

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok I'm finally gonna ask, how do I fully step back emotionally and mentally from my request, because I've been able to detach from tarot but I can't seem to stop overthinking what might be happening

#

I mean I'm able to put it aside mentally while busy or distracted but I wanna get to a point where my mind can roam without fixating on that specifically and I'm wondering what techniques you use?

faint walrus
#

itā€™s just one of those things where you literally have to convince yourself and continuously tell yourself that itā€™s fine and itā€™s being handled

#

talk to yourself, redirect your thoughts when it comes to that, give yourself reassurance

#

itā€™s weird but in a way you are rerouting your brain

#

in a mundane sense

upbeat shuttle
#

Ok yeah, that's similar to what I've been doing just saying "I'll check in later" and saying it every time I get the urge to do a reading

#

(No intention to check in btw)

faint walrus
#

yup! just keep doing that and eventually itā€™ll just fade out

#

helps to listen to other things too like podcasts so that it distracts your thoughts a bit

upbeat shuttle
#

Alright thank you šŸ™‚

wild imp
#

So i looked through the resource lists for Paimon (a friend wants to do some research before thinking about working with Paimon) and I wanted to know besides what is listed there, are there any other good sources you would recommend for working with Paimon or resources on what to know/about Paimon and his lore?

frozen raven
#

hmmm i would also rec some more generalized demonology books! idk where the list is actually but we have a massive one

#

oh is in satanism: #1114061112816717865 message
also via OG mimi: The dictionary of demons (idk if this is on the massive list) "Super general and short descriptions depending on the demon, may not be the most necessary to have if youā€™re just looking to work w specific demons"

wild imp
#

Thank you ā¤ļø

#

always coming in clutch i swear

frozen raven
#

yuhhhh

faint walrus
#

When im home later Iā€™ll try to remember to post the little excerpt about Paimon from the book!

wild imp
#

thank youuuu <4

#

ā¤ļø

faint walrus
#

okie im tired but pls ping me tomo ill do it tomo

frozen raven
#

-# idk if your home or not šŸ˜”

faint walrus
#

I AMMMM THANK U

#

@wild imp @frozen raven

wild imp
#

Thank you Mimi!šŸ’–šŸ’–šŸ’–

frozen raven
#

sobbing bc piamons compared to one above his šŸ˜­

#

ty Mimi usagilove usagilove

wild imp
wild imp
# faint walrus

I think i missed this earlier but what book is the passage on Paimon from?

faint walrus
#

Dictionary of demons!

wild imp
#

Thank you!!!

faint walrus
#

Youā€™re welcome šŸ¤—

fresh horizon
#

As a healer of addictions and 'bad' behaviors, I sincerely feel President BUER to be a champion of individuals with mental illness.

frozen raven
#

oh neat
with addiction being an actual mh issue I can see where that connection can be made

fresh horizon
frozen raven
#

not sure what the "bad" is referring to in this context (sorry the whole message is a bit vague for my 1am brain. not your fault I should def be asleep lol) but again yeah can see how it can be a connection that's made

fresh horizon
#

I serve to advocate for individuals with mental illness and was recently introduced to President Buer through an acquaintance for an urgent matter. In research through intuition, I put it together and found a champion for myself and my peers.

#

@frozen raven why can't I upload an image?

frozen raven
# fresh horizon <@697909837601833001> why can't I upload an image?

you currently don't have the proper level needed to do so we have our image permissions locked behind levels for moderation purposes.

you gain levels by interacting with the server and when you reach said level you'll be granted a role, and you will be notified in #šŸŒŸbots

fresh horizon
#

thank you ā˜ŗ

frozen raven
fresh horizon
frozen raven
#

Lucifer, Barbatos, Baphomet, and a few others I'm not willing to name as we havent gotten to the point of me being comfortable doing so

fresh horizon
#

I've found that doing the research and actually getting to know them is different .. lol

frozen raven
#

yup! there is a lot of werid info out there on a lot of them mainly due to demon led spaces being strife with ||Nazis|| and weird other bigots šŸ˜µā€šŸ’«

#

oh you gained pic perms! Hope you enjoy sending them

fresh horizon
#

thank you ā˜ŗ

frozen raven
#

oooooo that's so cool! I love entity beads bongocat

fresh horizon
frozen raven
#

OOO neat! these are ones I made for Lucifer forever ago and I need to remake

20220812_193855-1.jpg
fresh horizon
frozen raven
#

I love making my own since I have like a billion beads laying around anyway and crafting as devotional acts is fun

fresh horizon
#

gorgeous!

frozen raven
#

TY usagilove

#

Ive made other ones I've shown off for my deities and my mom's

fresh horizon
#

I envy you. Since my psychotic break in 2010, my fine motor skills have slipped and I struggle with stuff like crochet and bead work ...

#

I'll let you go though, get some rest and good night, friend.

upbeat shuttle
#

Hey, I've noticed an external test from Paimon, or what I believe to be an external test. I have never encountered this before and I am wondering if anyone else has and what it could mean for the work with the entity?

frozen raven
#

it might depend on the test tbh. but entites (and demons especially) can and will push limits to help you with growth. if you dont want that make it clear to them. if this lack of you going through with the test changes your relationship then it does but that might just be how that works.

upbeat shuttle
#

I've never had it before, I don't mind it but it just struck me as odd lol. I think he was testing my respect and adaptability

frozen raven
#

yup thats really common! they want you to grow so they test boundaries and limits.

upbeat shuttle
#

Ah alright thank you šŸ™‚

winged skiff
#

hello! i want to learn about demonology! though i must say i barely do spirit work so, is there any way i can dive into it or do i need to be proficient in spirit work?

void zinc
winged skiff
#

thank you so much, har ! you are the best ! i actually didn't knew the satanism resources had demon resources in it too, couldn't have found it without your help usagilove /pos

void zinc
#

in my phone i put "in" select the thingy that pops up and then resources cause otherwise it won't filter

winged skiff
#

ooo! i got it ! thank you so much, again! usagilove

frozen raven
faint walrus
#

agree! i think you should feel pretty comfortable in spirit work and your own clairsenses prior to working w demons esp. also having a strong foundational base within yourself emotionally before going into it because the infernal divine are notorious for their shadow work / spiritual awakenings that they embed in their practitioners and having a strong sense of self and your clairsenses is incredibly important in discerning thru those lessons / overall workship

winged skiff
#

i understand! that's what i was kind of skeptical about! thank you for letting me know y'all, i'll keep a mental note to strengthen my entity communication ! girlcomfy

south needle
#

Hello. I have started studying about demonolatry and have a question. Can entities and especially demons incarnate in human bodies? I've tried to find answer myself but there basically three opinions. Some people believe that they can and actively do, some people think they can but don't do it often because this dimension sucks and finally some people say it's impossible. I don't have any kind of mentors to discuss such topic and want someone to tell their opinion. It would be nice if you could add some arguments why you believe entities can\can't incarnate as humans

frozen raven
#

personally no. I believe that demons exists as another form of being entirely

south needle
#

But if we can contact them why can't they incarnate here?

frozen raven
#

bc they are different beings?
this is like implying that we can also turn into God's because we can communicate with them and that's also something that I don't believe we can do

#

communication does not equal ability to turn into

#

if you believe differently that's fine but like you asked for opinions on the matter

south needle
frozen raven
#

okay well then that's their opinion I don't believe that we were gods nor that we can become gods. so the same applies to demons

that's my opinion as in my experience they classify as entirely different beings many of them previously angels

south needle
#

Understandable. Thanks

frozen raven
#

I think the answer for that question is g_spark racism g_spark
bc that is fairly clearly a racist caricature of a black woman which based on the concept that black magic (which was predominantly practiced by black people) = evil that happened a lot back then isn't much of a jump to make

#

I think for the comfortability and respect towards black people in the server I'm going to go ahead and delete that image
you're not wrong to post and bring attention to it but I feel with it being unspoilered it's not necessarily the best thing for us to have in server/gen/nm

fresh horizon
#

It's just out there.

#

I was curious, if they could do that to Kali, what did they do to Beelzebub by associating him with poison?

#

De Plancy was supposedly an enthusiastic Roman Catholic ...

winged skiff
#

Hello! I have a question about Prince Stolas. Iā€™ve read the resources about him but I didnā€™t see anything related to stones. Do any of you know if he has a preference for any kind of stone or gem?

winged skiff
#

Ok I found it lol thanks anyway! usagilove

winged skiff
#

hi! any recommendations on vetting questions for Prince Stolas? tried to make my own but ended up being confused

frozen raven
#

if anything let me see if I can scrounge something up based off of other entries

winged skiff
#

i saw the ones for Paimon, theres none for Stolas :(

winged skiff
#

i've been tricked by a spirit before, i dont wanna go through that again catscream

frozen raven
#

okay so these are some for another demon:

Sample Vetting Questions:
elements

  • is your element water?
  • is your element earth?
    correct: ||is your element fire?||
    metal
  • is your metal aluminum?
  • is your metal gold?
    correct: ||is your metal copper?||
    day
  • is your day monday?
  • is your day wednesday?
    correct: ||is your day friday?||
    animals
  • are you represented by an eagle?
  • are you represented by an insect?
    correct: ||are you represented by a deer?||
    domain
  • can you control the sea?
  • can you control trees?
    correct: ||can you control lightning?||
    title
  • are you a president?
  • are you a king?
    correct: ||are you an earl?||
#

with this I would go through and look at what types of questions you can be asking things like their domain, their title, their animals, any days or specific months that they are associated with, if they have an element, etc

#

the reason why these are framed this way is because what you're doing is asking them these questions based on yes or no answers and then if they get one of these wrong that would be a fail

#

for paimon tho lemme look at his stuff really quick!

winged skiff
#

okay! so i'd have to check Stolas' associated stuff and make up the questions about those, no?

frozen raven
#

Sample Vetting Questions:
elements

  • is your element fire?
  • is your element earth?
    correct: ||is your element air?||
    metal
  • is your metal aluminum?
  • is your metal titanium?
    correct: ||is your metal tin?||
    animal
  • are you associated with snails?
  • are you associated with eels?
    correct: ||are you associated with ravens?||
    domain
  • do you rule over fine arts?
  • do you rule over the law?
    correct: ||do you rule over herbalism?||
    title
  • are you an earl?
  • are you a knight?
    correct: ||are you a prince?||
frozen raven
#

if you want you can also add more to these. change any of the first ones that I've had and then just keep the same "correct" answer!

#

NGL I went through all of those with the answers for Paimon šŸ˜­ had to redo it that's why it took so long šŸ™šŸ™ sorry about that

winged skiff
#

okay perfect

#

thank you so much!!! usagilove

#

whenever I have my own vetting questions for Stolas clear i will post them here if anyone needs them

#

and dont be sorry i appreciate your help so so much as you're far more experienced! /gen

stoic drift
#

I do wanna work with a Goetic demon but Iā€™ve seen people say you need a circle to summon them

Is that true? How will I know if they hear me?

hallow peak
#

The circle thing us something from Solomons stuff and I would uhhh
Not Recommend his methods. They're generally seen as super rude among people who work with demons

#

If this is your first time working with entities, I would highly suggest making sure you understand and have a good grasp of the basics- cleansing, banishing, protections, etc- before getting into it

Other than that, working with demons is very similar to working with any other entities

winged skiff
#

I used divination methods to make sure itā€™s them, and communicated with them that way. Very important to use protective stuff when communicating with any kind of entity as thereā€™s spirits roaming around ready to trick you (Iā€™ve been there and it isnā€™t fun)

#

Make sure you get the basics as Pidge said, but thereā€™s no need for circles at all. Respect them and their boundaries and youā€™re good to go

winged skiff
#

does anyone here have the Occult Tarot by Travis McHenry? if yes, what do we think of it?

frozen raven
#

OMG I want that deck so bad catshake

winged skiff
#

i have it on my cart........... its so pretty........

frozen raven
#

it unfortunately does have a lot of appropriated demons in it from the Kabalah and such but šŸ„ŗ it's so nice

#

there is also a corresponding angel deck (which has the same problem) but I want them both so bad

winged skiff
#

yeah when i saw 78 cards i was like... there's not that many Goetian demons...?

#

makes sense now that you mentioned the appropriation

frozen raven
#

yeah! I think they also have ones that aren't closed but are also not Goetic, like Baphomet

tho with that said some goetic demons are appropriated as well so tis the cycle šŸ˜”

winged skiff
#

fucking hell catscream

frozen raven
#

yeahhh unfortunately it's a lot of having to research on it but šŸ’ŖšŸ’Ŗ we do

winged skiff
#

WE TRY

frozen raven
#

we do try šŸ¤šŸ¼

winged skiff
#

but we do appreciate a demon based deck usagilove

frozen raven
#

yessss

winged skiff
#

the angel one iS GORGEOUS TOO LIKE

#

im a sucker for golden edges

#

and the back of the cardsssssssss

frozen raven
#

YES!

#

ugh I love them both

#

they are on my to-buy list

winged skiff
#

me: in february i'll controol my finances
me now: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

winged skiff
frozen raven
#

oh yeah!!

winged skiff
#

they will be now on my to-buy list

#

apart from being a very cool deck, it will help me learn

frozen raven
#

dragonnod
the only thing I will say is that I personally don't agree with some of where the demons are placed like yes they have some demons in line with cards they are associated with but some aren't?
it's maybe me being just like a little nitpicky and shoving my personal bias on there tho LMAO

#

cuz like only one of them is going to be able to fit on the Devil card šŸ˜­

winged skiff
#

yeah i understand that

#

i guess it was kinda difficult to associate? /genq

frozen raven
#

it might have been I know a lot of the goetic demons have a tarot card associated but I know a fair few don't because they only have like a single line

#

like "was maybe cool?"

faint walrus
frozen raven
#

I always forget about Solomon because I hate him šŸ˜­ I forget he's like prevalent

faint walrus
#

Lucifer is the death card in the deck which I donā€™t agree w but šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø

frozen raven
#

no yeah! like some I'm like alr this was prob aesthetics šŸ˜” but you got the spirit

winged skiff
frozen raven
#

information in there could be helpful just like on long-term even to just see what Solomon type of rhetoric looks like and how you can avoid it in the future

winged skiff
#

i haven't read Solomon's book yet, its so weirdly written i struggle

winged skiff
frozen raven
#

to be fair it is from like almost a hundred years or something ago so a lot of it's old timey language and then it's translated into English which like doubly so

winged skiff
#

yeah i understand why its so "weird" but as a non native every time i try to read it im like floofsobbing

#

now question: why is Solomon "icky"?

frozen raven
#

Solomon and his methods utilized binding demons in ways that they could not consent to and forced them to do things that they didn't want to under the guise of him "gaining information"

almost every single demon you're going to meet is probably going to hate Solomon in some kind of form and will probably stop working with you if you attempt to utilize his methods. Most practitioners agree that him and his methods are not something that we want to keep perpetuating in the demon working community but ofc there are outliers who do it anyway

#

essentially a bunch of what we know about demons tends to come from them being taken advantage of by Solomon

winged skiff
#

thats so sad though

#

we have knowledge about them because they were forced to give information

#

"but demons are evil blabla"

faint walrus
#

I personally like the deck for identification purposes! Less about the info itself, if you enjoy the aesthetic and eventually want to work with more demons itā€™s nice to have. The deck itself is pretty straight forward in how it communicates

winged skiff
#

with the identification, do you know which demon it is because they pull their own card?

faint walrus
#

If itā€™s actually them, then yes but also additional vetting is involved like having them answer questions about their associations, what they rule over, etc

winged skiff
#

yeah, i always use vetting when communicating with any entity

#

thank you mimi for the info usagilove

#

and you too oli! usagilove

winged skiff
#

Do we have any info on Andrealphus around here? Anyone familiar with him?

frozen raven
#

we do not no

tho knowing about him would have been real nice my freshman year of highschool wdym he teaches geometry šŸ˜­

#

what kinda info are you looking for?

winged skiff
#

I got a reading done and I got told Andrealphus was interested in working with me, and although the reading resonated with me, I was a bit suspicious comparing what the reader told me and the info I found about him

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Not that I donā€™t want him to work with me but I wanted to see if anyone had info or experience to see if I just got scammed

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They described him as someone who wants to help me find my true self and face who I really am

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So I looked into him and I was a bit confused? I know working with demons is more deep than the info we have about them, but I was curious

frozen raven
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hm well if im honest that is usually what most demons wanna help you with?

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like most entities are here to help you in your goals and become a better "you" in my experience

winged skiff
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Yeah thatā€™s what Iā€™ve felt too

frozen raven
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I hate vizi pop for making searching anything demon related so fucking hard šŸ˜­ i dont want helluva boss bro

winged skiff
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I searched for Andrealphus and I was like

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Are you fucking kidding me

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I donā€™t wanna know about this asshole give me the actual demon

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šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­

frozen raven
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NO YEAH šŸ˜­

winged skiff
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I mean I can always ask Andrealphus myselfā€¦ but i thought about asking here first

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Especially because the reader said ā€œthe Goetia demon Adrammelech wants to help youā€ and I had to find myself that isnā€™t his name in the Goetia hierarchy

frozen raven
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interesting....

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yeah in the goetia hes not Adrammelech but he is called that in other demonology sources

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and before that he was a god (similar to Baal i reckon)

winged skiff
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In a book I have, I have this little thing about him:

Andrealphus - Air, measurement, foresight, and transformation

winged skiff
frozen raven
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"supervisor of satan's wardrobe" šŸ˜­

winged skiff
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He wants him to be stylish /jk

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I cackled when I saw that LOL

frozen raven
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well.. he is associated heavily with peacocks.... and those are the most stylish of birds

winged skiff
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That is true

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If someone has to know about style thatā€™s him

frozen raven
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lmao but yeah i would suggest asking him! if youd like i can make a list like how we have for other demons but it is going to heavily be based on untested upg

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(aka shit i think he would like but i dont work w him so i cant test for sure)

winged skiff
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Yeah I will do that! If he wants to work with me Iā€™m happy to invite him to the team! I wanted to ask first here just in case anyone had experience

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Iā€™ll share my experience here when Iā€™m done

frozen raven
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ah gotcha! maybe someone else does bongocat

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but either way gl!

winged skiff
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Thank you!

teal cairn
winged skiff
winged skiff
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Just asked Andrealphus

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He isnā€™t interested in working with me at the moment, and he told me that I indeed got scammed by that reader catscream

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I appreciate the sincerity but MAN

wild imp
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Im so sorry you got scammed šŸ˜¦ šŸ«‚ that sucks so much

winged skiff
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It happens :_ and it does suck

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I had a feeling

rancid robin
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sorry you got caught by our automod @fresh horizon But HELL YEAH. i know iā€™m a stranger on the internet but i wanna say im proud of you and youā€™ve got this

fresh horizon
winged skiff
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Quick question, can a Christian Witch be working with Lucifer?

winged skiff
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in my opinion, your practice is yours and you can work with whoever you want as long as they don't belong to a closed practice (which Lucifer isnt)

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if it aligns with your beliefs and morals, go for it

teal cairn
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i don't work with prince stolas but have briefly contacted him to ask stuff for a friend - does anyone else find that he's quite straight to the point in communication and his energy is like. tired parent who works 3 jobs to feed the kids (his devotees)

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like you can tell he cares and he wants the best for you! but also he hasn't much grace to spare

frozen raven
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hm personally not really? i can see how it may seem like that if you arent like actively around him but i think its more that hes just less communicative as a whole personally. Like he could yap but like minimal word yapping? idk if that even makes sense šŸ˜­

winged skiff
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for me he's like the quietest entity i've ever communicated with

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he'd rather send you a sign than communicating with you straight ahead

frozen raven
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dragonnod like not a lot to say but when there is he is sending messages like

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this

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is

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not

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your

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best

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idea

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:/

teal cairn
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ooh, interesting

winged skiff
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when i do communicate with him he's very straight to the point, but more in the way of "i dont want this convo to be long"

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with my pendulum he also makes like the smallest circles (yes) or lines (no), like sometimes straight up i cannot tell what he's saying to me

teal cairn
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yeagh i dont work with him myself it was for a friend who was too frazzled to connect with him for a message

winged skiff
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i do understand the "overworked dad" energy, like, an overworked dad is also like "yes my love yes, can you let me rest now"

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so in that way YES, he's got that vibe

frozen raven
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ye minimal words not as like fluffy in terms of how hes phrasing things. i use a few different methods of communication and like the only other person i get this sorta vibe with is Hel (from norse stuff) who is v calm and collected and minimal words

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i dont view any of my entites as parental as like a personal thing but he can be a lot like "i am the only one working on 5 group projects and you are the only one helping me w this one ily/p"

winged skiff
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i communicate a lot with Diana and she's super energetic; Vesta is very caring and loving; Prince Stolas is the shy, introvert friend who just wants to be in their room