Help with a drawing

[arctic belfry]

Foreshortening

[weary tree]

?

What’s that

[arctic belfry]

Research it or search on YouTube

[weary tree]

Thanks for nothing…

But ok

[arctic belfry]

It'll help a lot but it's also a lot of effort

[weary tree]

Dude I watched so many tutorials and I am still at this level

I am drawing since I was 13, now I am 19

This is my level, you understand?

This is my normal level

I can do this, nothing more

[tidal scarab]

Calm down buddy
You can always do better

I think the tip you need is don't give up, have fun, and learn to accept mistakes
Also just watching tutorials isn't gonna help
You have to draw

In your case, it looks like you just went at it
You should instead start with some direction
Maybe draw a few lines to get a general idea of the pose
Then draw in 3d shapes, break down your subject into simpler and simpler shapes which you understand
Then once you have the base structure
Start adding the details
You can go crazy
Also if you're really really struggling with visualising and getting proportions
Just trace
Draw the shapes there
Like boxes, spheres etc over the reference
Maybe if you are more confident there
Try to draw it without tracing
Also at all points
Remember that it's your drawing
And you're supposed to have fun with it

Also as 3crushedlemons said
You should research foreshortening
It is hard but worth it

Another thing I forgot to mention
draw larger

It gives you more space to draw
You can get more creative with it
And as you're doing digital
Zooming in won't pixelate or blur everything

[fervent quest]

acutally you can improve
just start drawing anything random, whenever you feel like it

no pressure

just get a sketchbook and don't forget to put the date on your drawings

draw for a week then compare the quality change between your first and latest drawing

that improvement is your motivation to continue

[weary tree]

I’ll try

Thank you

[fervent quest]

i'm still stupid at digital art but uh yea

just before commiting to the full thing, you need to draw in rough shapes and sketches

that has changed the way i draw completely

best of luck to ya mate :)

[weary tree]

@fervent quest Here it is. This time I tried with the image under the drawing for the shape tracing

Oh also @tidal scarab

And @arctic belfry

[tidal scarab]

Cool
Now try to break it into more understandable shapes which you can draw without tracing
Like the head
It can be broken into a sphere with a line and add the jaw over it (I think you get what I mean)
Try to understand the proportions and study what you did
Just copying the lines without thought won't do much help
Draw it without tracing now
Try to find how you mess up and where you struggle

[weary tree]

Okk

Here is something (sorry I did it too fast maybe). I understood that it could be better for me, in the case of the arms and the legs, to choose where to position the joints firs and then do the shape of the arm or he leg. Also, the head divided in the two shapes looks more useful. Oh and I can split the torso in two half, that are the same length as the head (so the torso is two heads long). Speaking about proportions, I understood better where I was doing wrong, also I think it’s better is I use tubes for things like arms and legs, they are more dynamic and easy to understand maybe…

Like this

[tidal scarab]

Try using this knowledge and draw this without reference

[arctic belfry]

👏👏

Give yourself a pat on the back

You've gotten a lot better at this

[weary tree]

Maybe for that I will need more practice😅

[tidal scarab]

Dw
It doesn't have to be perfect
You're still learning

[weary tree]

Oh ok

I’ll try right now

[tidal scarab]

Most important skill here is your ability to think in 3d

[weary tree]

Without any reference, only memory

I can tell that without the reference I forgot the inclination

[tidal scarab]

Using reference is fine
It's pretty good for drawing from memory

Drawing from reference is good practice

[weary tree]

I see, doing it like this makes it better

Still need to watch Draw like a sir for some things

[weary tree]

And here we are

For the clothes I still need to start practicing so… don’t expect that much

[fervent quest]

i can see the improvement

you're there

[fervent quest]

^^

[fervent quest]

much better honestly

but see, try to also look at it from a logical point

the hand is small compared to the body

the back of the knees are missing some volumehonestly one can't really see his mistakes, so you got choices

you can flip the drawing horizontally (this helps you tell mistakes you wouldn't have been able to tell)

or show the drawing to another person (like you just did)

[fervent quest]

maaan go take some rest

you digged this

❤️‍🔥

[weary tree]

Tomorrow I’ll continue when I have time, since I will start school and I’ll go out with friends

[weary tree]

Thank youuu

[tidal scarab]

I think you can tell how much better this one is compared to your first

[fervent quest]

no prob bud :)

[weary tree]

I am starting color

[tidal scarab]

I don't really recommend coloring now
You should focus more on getting the sketch better then add color
Maybe if you really want add color only in some easy spots like eyes

Also Id like you to go back to your initial post and compare how far you've come in a few days

[weary tree]

Oh, ok

But this is the only one that I drew

I don’t have other drawings

So this is the line art for now

[tidal scarab]

Id say don't get stuck on 1 drawing
You'll not improve much that way (speaking from experience)

[cunning fossil]

The group that spends 30 days on 1 pot, vs the group that spends 30 days for 30 pots

[weary tree]

I am not willing to draw in these days I don’t know why I’m so lazy

[weary tree]

Well it’s a lot if I did that drawing

I need motivation, but I don’t have any

Like, I really could draw something else, but I won’t really improve just like this

I only have a few months to improve enough to be accepted in art university

But it’s been 5 years since I started drawing

[weary tree]

Ok I tried something. This is with tracing

This is the reference

[meager helm]

grid is the best way imo

but i guess it only works out for me cuz i draw portraits ony

[rocky solstice]

WHAT, grid is the absolute WORST WAY TO GET BETTER. you literally are just copying what's going down, not understanding. Just copying. You won't learn ANYTHING. I can't believe you would say that. It wouldn't help anyone get better at drawing heads. It only helps you get better at drawing with the grid, so if you ever try without it, you'll be stuck. The person is trying to get better at drawing, not trying to copy a picture 1 for 1

[meager helm]

yea thats why i said it works the best for ME and what I do

[rocky solstice]

Okay, then why say it?

[meager helm]

does anywhere state that i cant?

[rocky solstice]

I didn't say you couldn't, I asked why you said, because the person obviously isn't looking for advice about copying a photo exactly, they are trying to learn structure, and form, foreshorting, things like that, things you can't really learn when using the grid method

[meager helm]

if he doesnt think my message was relevant then he could have just ignored it? there was no need for u to say all that shit

[cunning fossil]

Give your suggestions

[weary tree]

…

I was only asking for suggestions jeez

This is not a chat for arguing

Well better call @tidal scarab

[weary tree]

@tidal scarab if you can read from this pls

Ignore the argument between those 2

[fervent quest]

that's some nice improvement

but smth bout it throws me off

i think shorts placement on the left leg

[meager helm]

the inner thigh should start lower

of the leg in the air

waitr actually

[fervent quest]

ooooh yea

[meager helm]

tyjhe whole torso should be shifted up

something like that

[fervent quest]

don't you think the left leg is a tad small

[meager helm]

yea i think the thigh is too skinny

aloso in the reference it looks like the thigh is a stretched egg shape wjhich means that the widest area should be at the middle

[fervent quest]

oooo yes yes

[cunning fossil]

Watching for where the “peaks” of the curves are can help

(The red lines)

[fervent quest]

^^

[fervent quest]

i'd say some upbeat music helps

especially mario music

like i'd feel so lazy and bored

when i hear mario music i can't stop doing what i'm doing xd

hope it'll work for you

[weary tree]

Dude this is okay if I trace the drawing, but I work with a scheme💀

[meager helm]

what scheme

[cunning fossil]

Wait what do you mean?

[weary tree]

I start with a scheme for the body

Shapes

Basic shapes

[meager helm]

oh

[weary tree]

Then I go with the drawing

[cunning fossil]

Good

[fervent quest]

but you evolve from that

[meager helm]

yea u can draw those curves around the shape

[fervent quest]

yup yup

^^

[weary tree]

That’s the point

[weary tree]

I did lol

[weary tree]

.

[cunning fossil]

Wait so what’s the problem?

[weary tree]

Idk

I am trying to understand

[cunning fossil]

Aight, what do you think could be improved with your drawings?

[weary tree]

It’s a lot if I know how to draw it with basics

[fervent quest]

it's right that drawing starts with simple shapes, like everything starts with shapes, but then there's stretching and all of these finiky concepts soo yeah

[weary tree]

Dude if I would know I wouldn’t be here asking for help😭

[cunning fossil]

Like vibe-wise what do you want it to feel like

[fervent quest]

lmaaao

[cunning fossil]

Do you want it more 3D, more dynamic

[weary tree]

Sounds too difficult

[fervent quest]

actually it's a pretty good question

[cunning fossil]

More designed, more like a certain artist

[fervent quest]

i swear it doesn't

just give it a shot

[weary tree]

I need to know muscles for this

[fervent quest]

.

btw

[fervent quest]

watch some tutos

[cunning fossil]

Basic muscles will help, but you dont need to know everything intricately

[weary tree]

I tried, I still don’t know how to draw muscles

[cunning fossil]

How come?

[weary tree]

As I said, I’m studying the same thing for 5 years

Still nothing

[weary tree]

How can I know

Maybe this is not for me

[cunning fossil]

Well only you know best

[weary tree]

But now it’s too late to change my path

I can’t do anything else

I can only draw

[cunning fossil]

Don’t worry I like to ask questions so you can ask in the future

[weary tree]

Well, can’t draw but it’s the best thing I can do

Its been 5 years and I am still watching the same videos

I’m tired of this

I just want to improve

[meager helm]

u taking any lessons?

[cunning fossil]

Hmm you might be going at studies the wrong way

[weary tree]

Ohhh I spent THOUSANDS on lessons with good teachers, even that didn’t help me…

[meager helm]

hm

[weary tree]

Definitely, I don’t have a plan, I just take references, I don’t know where to start and how and with what

I also took books but I hate reading and those are too difficult

[cunning fossil]

Alright, I will be your teacher

B)

[weary tree]

If great teachers that teach in UNIVERSITIES didn’t help me, idk if you can

[cunning fossil]

First question, do you have a goal with how good you want to get?

[weary tree]

I am just looking for advices here

[cunning fossil]

Do you want to draw anime, super realism, gestural, western

[weary tree]

Well I want to go work on CGI, videogame art, movie art and things like that

So animation, 3d art, illustration…

These things

[cunning fossil]

Oooh I see, that’s a wide range

[weary tree]

I have a few months, I need a portfolio for art university

[cunning fossil]

Like splash art? Concept artish

[weary tree]

Concept art something like that yeah

Just to know how to draw and then take the other steps while at university

[cunning fossil]

Alright 🤔

There’s a lot to get through tbh, but you have some drawing experience so that’s good

How are you with perspective?

[weary tree]

What’s perspective

[cunning fossil]

1 point, 2 point, 3 point perspective

[weary tree]

Oh that

No

Didn’t even start

Too many lines, too much time wasted

[cunning fossil]

That will be a foundational skill for you. If you can draw a cube in 3 point perspective that’s key

[weary tree]

If I want to draw professionally I must draw fast

Not take the time for little lines, big lines, etc, that are not needed

Fast is the key to be a good employee

[cunning fossil]

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

We want technique, not speed

When we study, we need a balance

[weary tree]

Well if I want to get a job I must be fast

If I don’t learn to be fast I am screwed

[cunning fossil]

That’s true, fast is very important

[weary tree]

People always refused me for this

I am so slow

[cunning fossil]

But what good is a fast ugly art

[weary tree]

And this got me bad

[cunning fossil]

What we really want is fast good art right?

[weary tree]

True

Now I have dinner, I will talk later

[cunning fossil]

But we can’t learn good art if we don’t draw slow

SO, you need a balance

When studying, go in depth. Learn until you understand. Then with what you learn you can TEST yourself, by drawing faster.

This is key, to understand means you get the good part down. Then fast means you are recalling it.

But fast is more than just make lines fast.

Watch Kim Jung Gi or any really good artist.

Before they make a line, you’ll see they take their time. Watch how slow they make the line. It’s because in a single line you can indicate 10 different principles of drawing.

Anyways, there’s no actual practical steps here, but someone can link a perspective basics video.

Maybe ModernDayJames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAlCyQqEZSU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DmqFbgKWoao

I would recommend drawing cubes and cylinders. In different angles.

You won’t like this, but there’s a very good reason for this.

If you can’t draw an accurate cylinder in perspective, foreshortened or in a weird angle,

Then how do you expect to draw a thigh, which is just like a cylinder. Or the arm, which is two connected cylinders.

OR

You can get into gestures.

There’s too much for me to say in a single discord message. You seem lost, I can come back another time, but if you want to keep drawing and tracing from reference fine.

If you want to draw really solid art for concept and games and animation… then call me ;)

[tidal scarab]

@weary tree I ain't reading allat
Tldr when?

[tidal scarab]

Don't just draw over it
Break it into 3d shapes like you did with the previous one
Also first draw without tracing
Use it as reference
Doesn't have to be perfect
Just get the silhouette right
Practice more without tracing
Also you're using human bodies so it is highly recommended you learn basic anatomy

This is the shit I did on my day 1/2 drawing (followed draw like a sir for this)

Ignore the lines on the bottom right of the 1st
Those were just me testing erasers on a later date

It's super bad
I didn't know shit about anatomy or anything then

I just tried to comprehend the 3d geometry and attempted to make sense on paper

Then I just drew stuff from reference of whatever looked cool

[tidal scarab]

First thing I drew after drawing these

It has no attempt at shading and the fingers look a bit goofy
All I wanted was to get the proportions and silhouette

(I forgot what I was going to say, shit)

[weary tree]

Ok I can study but where tf do I start? One says “start from perspective” one says “start from basic shapes” one says “start from drawing lines” one says “start from the muscles”

It’s already enough that I know what drawing is, this is confusing me more than anything

“Draw random things in a sketchbook for a week and see how you improved”
“Don’t draw detailed muscles, it’s useless and takes a lot of time, just know the basic lines”
And then: “You should know how to draw muscles first of all”
And what about: “You should just draw, find references and just draw” and then “You should start by studying this (put anything you said)”

“Find out where you struggle” dude how the fuck do I know where I struggle if I don’t even know how to fucking draw a fucking human body?

If I could find out where I struggle would I be here asking people for help because I cannot even draw a fucking person?

After 5 fucking years?

You know what? Imma just search on Google

Bye

This just made me more confused

[tidal scarab]

Bro didn't search on google for 5 years

[cunning fossil]

All of the advice you mentioned are applicable that’s the thing.

But for different situations. In the end we really want to be able to do all of that.

“Don’t focus on anatomy” is good advice because getting a good gesture down first and getting the idea of the pose can be quicker and more practical.

But if you have to draw a more detailed piece or a muscular person, you’ll have to learn anatomy at some point

Find out what you struggle and pick one thing. This is how you improve without having to wait for others to tell you stuff.

“I always take a hundred tries to draw hands”, then that could be something you should practice.

You just do hand studies for a couple hours until you can do it comfortably. You watch tutorials, copy references, draw imagination, look at other artists.

[cunning fossil]

But now we find there are hundreds of things to improve and there’s no wrong answer and I could tell you to draw boxes all day and it WILL HELP, but you don’t want to do that, so you need to find out what you WANT to do

[weary tree]

I did, but at this point I lost all my hopes and Google it’s the only way

Even though I found nothing, again

[weary tree]

I didn’t say I don’t want to do that

[cunning fossil]

Oh okay

[tidal scarab]

Be real
Why do you want to draw?

[weary tree]

Because I really like it, it’s the only thing that makes me feel free and myself

And I really dream one day to work as a game artist or movie artist, like doing the art for video games or CGI and things like that for movies

Or even a comic, my comic

The only problem is that I am too much on my pc playing games and I lose the willing to do everything else

[tidal scarab]

Id say go outside and draw
Balcony or yard works
It feels a lot more calming there

[weary tree]

I’m not a calm person yk

[weary tree]

I would just be bored

Also, I can’t draw from reality

But anyways I think I’m cooked, it’s been 3 days since I drew something…

I just can’t find the will

My head says “I want to draw EVERYTHING” but my body says “Nah, just play Roblox or some shit like that and relax”

Like, am I even doing something?

I can’t just… think about it

I could just make AI draw something and then say that I made it, but where’s the effort then?

[meager helm]

i deleted and quit all my games last week so i could draw again, didnt draw for 6 months before thst 🤷‍♂️ i hope u find somethjing thast works for u

[weary tree]

If I delete all the games I can just reinstall them

[meager helm]

🤦‍♂️

[weary tree]

But even if I could stop with the games, I can find everything else

Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, YouTube, chatting…

I can find anything

I tried opening a drawing tutorial and I closed it after two minutes

[meager helm]

i mean... if u are trying that hard to avoid drawing then idk what to tell u

[weary tree]

My laziness just came to a point where I cannot go back

The only way is to make someone lock all my electronic devices, but then how do I study for drawing?

Books are not enough, I need a super wide and customizable source of references to draw

And the only device where I can have it all with one click is the same device that feeds my laziness

[meager helm]

u can just print wsome references and then p0ut ur devices away

[weary tree]

I don’t have a printer…

I always do everything on digital

[meager helm]

what about library?

[meager helm]

^

[weary tree]

I just uninstalled all the apps that made me get out of focus (games, instagram etc…)

[weary tree]

Yeah kinda sad

[weary tree]

Libraries in Italy have only reading books, nothing about drawing because “it’s not cultural” lol

[meager helm]

nice

[meager helm]

i mean a printer

[weary tree]

Ohhhh

They are poor, it’s already a lot if they have books

[meager helm]

:

💀

[weary tree]

I have never seen a printer in a library here

[meager helm]

damn really

[weary tree]

Also, in my city our library has a premium thing: the bathroom

[meager helm]

almost every library has a printer where i am

[meager helm]

i guess thats a good thing

[weary tree]

You are not in Italy I guess

And you didn’t see schools

[meager helm]

yea im canada

[weary tree]

Well you are in a good place

Here we only have suffering

And if you want to become an artist, well, just hope in a miracle

[meager helm]

im sure thats not true

[weary tree]

Well you don’t live Italy

But I understand

My parents are not that rich, so, I don’t have great chances

I need to find a job, but with my last year of high school I can’t lose the focus, I have an exam

[meager helm]

yea

[weary tree]

A really important exam. But I also need the money for university, and my parents won’t pay university for me

So… I have no choice but to find a job

But in Italy finding a job is like looking for water in Africa

“You are not good enough”
“We are looking for people with experience” (if I can’t have a job how can I get experience lol)
“You are too young”
“We need people that can be easily called in case of necessity”

If you want it in small words: bosses here need people with no social life, that just stay at home, that they can pay a little, that desperately need a job to live (so they literally enslave them) and ESPECIALLY these people must obey to the boss like a god

Oh and if you complain you can be easily fired

[maiden sluice]

Heyo, I know things can be frustrating but this isn't a venting server

Can we please stick to the art help theme of the forum?

Much appreciated

[weary tree]

…

Omg

Whatever

Bye

I was literally just talking on my personal thread

[maiden sluice]

Really?

You know that doesn't work on us, you can keep locking to prevent a reply but it won't change the fact that this is an art server and this is an art help thread, not a personal venting thread

If you wanna vent there's a #⚫・void

And if you need to talk to someone talk to some friends or family about your issues

A Discord art server is not the place for it!

[weary tree]

Whatever

[tidal scarab]

Bitching about how sad and tragic your life is
Won't get you anywhere

Also pls don't @ me here

[cunning fossil]

Oh I have a friend who’s going to italy

[weary tree]

Well leave the thread then thanks

[weary tree]

Good for him if he’s a tourist

[cunning fossil]

Yeah he on vacay

[weary tree]

Nice

[tidal scarab]

Literally does the thing I told bro not to do

If you pls don't @
Discord automatically adds you if you do so

[weary tree]

Omg ok