Folds look wierd

[viral idol]

I am talking about cell shading tho.I cant make clothing seem right when i try to apply cell shading

until i straight up copy the image

[reef phoenix]

What does your work look like? Kinda hard to give advice for this sort of thing when we cant really see it

[viral idol]

I made light lines of how i would make lighter color to look like.I think i already shown this to you tho

And it looks quite off

[reef phoenix]

Oh. I forgot your username for a sec. I remember you lol. Like i had said in your old post, use references. I promise it makes it look way better

[viral idol]

But references are not gonna give you all the anwsers

I mean.Cel shading probably follow some rules

Also i saw process how other artists do it and those references just made me much more confused compare to seeing actual process

So it happend as i thought and said that when concept is not understood references are not going to help

[reef phoenix]

It looks to me you just dont know how to find adapt and reference then. Cause i guarantee you it will give you the information you need

[viral idol]

Well,it didnt

But it took a while for me to see process and understand it better

It took hours for me to try to understand it from reference and try to just replicate it allthought you cant replicate normal shading to cell shading if there isnt strong light and it still isnt the same

And tbh exactly this is slowing me down.Its different if i would try to do realistic shading and cel shading too

[noble sleet]

Bros not beating the dont know how to ref properly allegations. Idk how to help if ure kinda against references here. All i can say is cell shading is just really simplified irl shading. Got ur 3 values, mid, light and dark. If u got the 3 u can create anything

[viral idol]

There is literally a difference between stylization and realistic art.Ok,go on than.Learn stylized art from real life photos.Or even from stylized ones.Good luck

[noble sleet]

Idc if u listen or not. Its up to u if u wanna listen to a strategy thats been working since the Renaissance era. I said what i said and i dont retract my statements

[obtuse leaf]

To break the rules you need to somehow know them

.

[noble sleet]

Kami be dropping facts since i keep noticing u in the server

[viral idol]

Well,thats exactly my point too

I know them but cell shading is something else

[noble sleet]

No it isnt dude. Cell shading is just a really simplified version of irl shading.

Its posterization down into 3 values

[viral idol]

Of course it works since renasissance......they drew in realism or more simplified

So how is that that when i seen few seconds of actual break down i learnt more?

Or you want to tell me that thats my stupidity?

[obtuse leaf]

Not stupidity, inexperience

[noble sleet]

Yeah but that movement brought out all movements post renassicance. Those in cubism were inspired by the renassiance. Ppl whl did cubism brought art to its simplist form and they still could do other things becuz of their knowledge in what theyre drawing

[obtuse leaf]

You just don’t understand yet how to process the reference data

[noble sleet]

Bro no ones saying ur stupid. Theres a process that were trying to explain and ur not listening whilst pushing back at every point

[obtuse leaf]

And also, since you are a beginner, don’t expect the results to be good at first try

Just keep drawing

Even if when end you don’t like the result

It made you learn something

Do it over and over again

And sometime you’ll be able to draw this something the way you like it

Also it’s important to keep in mind how to efficiently learn, watch videos, examine other artist’s works, you can even trace them

[noble sleet]

Im not trying to be mean to u. Its just that for numerous posts now, you push back against every advice people have been giving you regarding references and stylization and how to break down art theories and concepts to be most efficient and benficial to you.

References are never there for 1:1. You should use references as a stepping block instead of the entire building. If u studied a cube long enough u can rotate it in ur head with a single ref of a cube.

And i agree with kami, u gotta keep doing things over and over. U gotta problem solve. Thats a big emphasis on provlem solving.

Youre wanting an equation for art but in reality art isnt about solving for y only. Its about solving all variables at all points

[viral idol]

Bro. I draw around three years and more

[obtuse leaf]

It doesn’t even have a right solution

It’s very flexible

[noble sleet]

Time doesnt matter in art. Its about active drawing rather than passive drawing.

[viral idol]

I am not da vinci. I am just trying to learn new style without straight up copying someone

[noble sleet]

Ik someone whos been drawing for 10 yrs and they have no improved a single bit because they never strive for it nor worked towards anything

[obtuse leaf]

Still I call that inexperience, because it’s visible you don’t really understand how things work

[queen forge]

Do a light study or a folds study. Still life is great for that. Grab a cloth, scrunchie it up, and draw it. Folds itself isn’t that difficult. You’ll realize once you have a basic understanding of light sources, you can basically bs shadows that give the illusion of folds

[obtuse leaf]

Copy.

Don’t post it anywhere claiming it’s yours or anything

But copy

Really

Trace it if needed

[noble sleet]

Youre missing the point. Were not trying to make u into da vinci. Were trying to tell u a strategy that the masters used to improve. And all artists are using it no matter their skill. Its beneficial. Even in all forms of art. Even in the most simplist like cubism. Or cell shading. Or anime

[obtuse leaf]

It will help you

[noble sleet]

As said in previous posts and in thid thread, ur not supposed to copy refs 1:1

[obtuse leaf]

And yes

But there’s no shame In copying, if you do it for learning

[noble sleet]

Agreed

[upbeat yew]

Please at least give it a shot before shutting it down

Watch a video on how to properly use references

[obtuse leaf]

We all live by copying, our personalities, things we say, style are all at some point just mirroring others around us

[wispy brook]

Looking at reference images is also quite different to real life reference. Sometimes it can be hard to visualise the object in 3D and you need some practice first. Having real fabric you fold and draw will allow you to see it from different angles and change the light source angle so you can understand what you're seeing better. I find this a regular problem with people who learn to draw from digital images first before real life.

[queen forge]

I feel like your issue with not wanting to use references from the internet can be entirely solved if you just decide to go the still life route and do realism.

[viral idol]

Did,for hours and hours.Helped much less than few seconds of that video

[reef phoenix]

Allow me to show you this. This is a series of paintings done by Claude Monet. He was a highly influential artist in the impressionist movement. The concept behind this movement is capturing tiny colors within shadows and highlights rather than simply the overall and then blending it together to try and match things perfectly to real life. In this series he went to the same exact location and would paint the same building at different times of day. Just five minutes can pass and the lighting completely changes. Notice how none of the paintings look 100% true to how this cathedral would look irl. Cause guess what. He knew how to adapt the reference to his goal. References are not restricted to photorealism. They can be used by any and all styles. You can look at the shadows of a photo reference and simplify them. Look at the most important dominant shadows. If you think you can only use a reference if it is a drawing someone else has already made you are greatly restricting yourself. Youre not growing your visual library. Youre just copying someones art

[viral idol]

Thats a real life drawing with exact reference that artist can influence tho.Clothes is something different tho

[wispy brook]

clothes are the easiest thing to reference because you can look in a mirror at any point and see how fabric would fold or crease around a limb.

[noble sleet]

Dude. Ur not thinking like an artist

It applies

[wispy brook]

I feel like theres something you're not understanding about cell shading that is making you feel like it's not based on reality.

[noble sleet]

Real question. Can you imagine? Like if i ask u to imagine a red apple can u see an apple thats red?

Cuz if u cant imagine it would explain some things

[viral idol]

Its not like i said i am more technical

Sorry but well...no shit.I am not creative type of person.If i can understand something,i can replicate it even without a year of drawing

I already said i am more technical didnt I?

What is so hard to understand on that too? If i see breakdown i can understand how to think in a certain way and replicate it

Because i see the process of how it should be done rather than how its done

Build a house by looking at already made house,you can try that.You can do this with buildings,characters and so on but there are things you cant do it with.And dont even tell me i dont know what i am talking about or that i am unexperienced because i can easily draw realistically from picture or from just seeing your face for some time and than draw you without looking

[noble sleet]

Yeah u did. And yes ik. The problem is as said in a past post clothing folds arent all one thing. As said, in a past resource that theres categories of folds. From their you just use the folds learned and apply it. Theres nothing more to it.

Unless u reframe ur mindset and step off the pedestal of "ive been drawing for years im good i swear", youre not gonna resolve this clothing folds problem.

We can explain tension points and how fabric works all day to u (as shown in past posts) but without you starting to use refs (properly), applying it to other forms of art, doing real life studies/still life, and reframing ur mindset then it is what it is

There is clearly a lack of understanding of ur fundamentals as theres actual structure to folds thay ur not seeming to get. But you keep on saying u can replicate irl people so well.

Im leaving the convo here. I dont think were getting thru to u. Ur problem lies heavily in ur fundamentals.

[viral idol]

You still dont got the point.I can do it realistically

And i know quite few types of folds

But nevermind

[noble sleet]

No, cuz if u can do it realistically the information should transfer

[viral idol]

Sure.....

[noble sleet]

It doesnt magically become a new thing if u change styles

[viral idol]

You know the best than

You are me

Sure

Well i bet you can draw i a loooot of styles than

I mean,the point is same isnt it?

[noble sleet]

Yeah i can. Cuz ik how to do it realistically to apply it to all forms of styles

[viral idol]

Ok.Try to do anime and than cartoon style and than realism and try it without studying how facial features are placed and how stuff around it is done.I bet it will go great

Facial features can be at least measured because of general knowledge

Try it with folds tho

Or with other things that cant be so easily seen as process on final picture

[noble sleet]

Lmao if u rlly wanna study folds then touch upon mass and how volume works in geometry. Thats the scientific version. But in art u cant just do calculations on surface area every time u wanna draw a shirt

[viral idol]

You still dont get the point.Explain than how i undertood it in few seconds much better from video where that style of shading is applied rather than from final works

[noble sleet]

Its all relative in art

[viral idol]

Explain this

If you will be able to explain it and still keep your point with references than sure

Why i even argue with you here if you dont really even know how i understand it better

[woeful delta]

If you’re asking for help at least try and take the advice given to you

[viral idol]

are you able to understand that not everyone learns in the same way with same effectivity?

[noble sleet]

Womp womp someones salty they dont know how to use multiple resources at once and mix matching strategies to apply best to them.

Idk what video ur talking about. Ur just using confirmation bias to be like haha u cant explain so im right

[viral idol]

Yes.Advice about shading not about how i should learn

[upbeat yew]

Can you explain it then? Tell us what you understand about fabric

[wispy brook]

I dont think anyone was saying the video didn't help you. Having visual explanation is transformative. But you need the practice of doing it, and the best way is to reference real things rather than images, so you can understand the 3D nature of it.
All. drawings. are based. off reality.

[viral idol]

I did from real things.Didnt helped i said that already

God i am just repeating myself

rather than recieving actual tip about what to do better i recieve tips about how yall think its good for me to learn althought i tested it already

This dosent have point than

[noble sleet]

Yeah cuz ur doing it wrong. And when ppl say how u should ur like "no i want shading help not how to learn"

Pick a struggle

[woeful delta]

The advice for shading is to use references, you’re not a pro yet you don’t know everything

[viral idol]

Again.I said i know how to shade realistically

I literally repeat myself

[upbeat yew]

Send proof, shade a sphere realistically

[noble sleet]

Bro i dont believe u atp. The works youve shown so far havent proven it

[woeful delta]

I just skimmed through everything I didn’t read through the conversation

[viral idol]

What? I already understood it from seeing the process so what struggle you talk about? I posted it here before seeing actual process too

[wispy brook]

you don't if you're struggling with cell shading.

If you'd like a hack, then shade realistically, and use the posterise layer effect to simplify your image.

[viral idol]

You dont.I did drew realistically for much more time than stylized tho

Yeah it dosent make sense to continue

[noble sleet]

Good hack. As explained ealier how cell shading is just realistic art but posterize to 3 shades

[viral idol]

Again.I said i know how to do it realistically

Its not that hard to understand like cmon

[noble sleet]

The math aint mathing with this one chat

[pure apex]

what the sus

[reef phoenix]

Like i had said before, look at the most important shadows. What so hard to understand about that

[noble sleet]

Knowledge is transferrable

[viral idol]

....

[woeful delta]

Yep a little confuzzled

[noble sleet]

A + b = c
C - a = b

Yet somehow bro is getting
C - a = d instrad of b

[wide stirrup]

show us you can do it realistically and we can go from there

if we see a real example of how you shade we can break the process down much easier

[upbeat yew]

Realistic shading isn’t just going from light to dark. There’s reflective light, midtones, and other things to master

[viral idol]

I am not even gonna continue.As I said i did it with refference,studied various folds,tried it stylized with refferences and didnt helped althought i can do it realistically.No need to continue and trying to convince me that i dont know how to do it if i know that i can do it realistically.Last massage from me cause this is just annoying rather than helping.I asked for advice.Not for putting a nose into how i learn stuff in which i have already tested for myself how to learn and what works and what dont.Everyone learns in a different way and if its hard to understand than i dont know what than.

[noble sleet]

If ur so condifent you wouldnt have a problem showing a work

[pure apex]

i think bro is dodging

[upbeat yew]

Just send some realistic art examples we’re trying to help u 😭

[wide stirrup]

show us that you can do it instead of telling us

show, dont tell

[noble sleet]

My mans not beating the knowledge isnt transferrable allegations

[viral idol]

I surely had photos of my drawings in PC and i am surely gonna put the work in just to prove my point

[wide stirrup]

draw a sphere and shade it

[reef phoenix]

If you showed us what you do we would be more prone to believe you but youre completely dodging the question which leads us to believe that youre just making crap up

[wispy brook]

You're working in Krita.
shade it realistically.
Add a filter > artistic > posterize
Adjust until it looks good to you

[viral idol]

You really think i dont know how light works

[noble sleet]

Yes

[reef phoenix]

Yup

[upbeat yew]

Yes

[wispy brook]

stop defending . it's literally the worst trait in an artist, because you wont be able to receive help or critique.

[wide stirrup]

im just saying that if you show us that you CAN, your point becomes MUCH stronger

if you legitimately can do what you say, there is a much more legitimate point

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[viral idol]

Main light source,bounce light,terminator,reflected light,thrown color from bounce light to the object,half tone,shadow edge,cast shadow.If you still gonna think your stuff than you do you i guess

[wide stirrup]

show dont tell

[viral idol]

Anyway i dont need to proof anything

[upbeat yew]

Show us then

;-;

[wispy brook]

you have the most messages in these help posts. You have everyone trying to help you out. You have had very solid art fundamentals thrown your way.
If you "know" it all, then it means you have not practiced it.
Go and practice until it works.

[pure apex]

[viral idol]

Why the hell would i connect my tablet just to show

[wide stirrup]

that’s theoretical knowledge, put it into practice

[wispy brook]

because you're asking for help 🥲

[viral idol]

I went to art school lol.....

[wide stirrup]

to PROVE us wrong
so we can legitimately tell what your problem is and help you

[upbeat yew]

We’re trying to help you not beat you down

[viral idol]

One good reason

[noble sleet]

Me dodging all art help and sitting on my high horse and not showing proof cuz of my ego:

[wide stirrup]

then you should be able to draw and shade a sphere easily

[reef phoenix]

Show us you know. You may know in concept but we seriously dont think you know what the heck youre talking about. You obviously are inexperienced due to this whole interaction

[noble sleet]

Thay doesnt mean anything. Ik ppl who went and still are horrible at art cuz they didnt learn

[reef phoenix]

Uh youre in the minors age range. No way thats true

[pure apex]

middle school art class

[viral idol]

Nah i am just not gonna put effort to it just to proof my point.You need to know what ego is at first place tho

[noble sleet]

Bro i can stand behind my words cuz i can show my works

[wide stirrup]

look, im not here to tell you that you cant, im here to ask you to prove that you can.

the first step to getting the help you need with cel shading is to show everyone where you are at right now

[upbeat yew]

Then we can’t help you.

Don’t ask for help if you’re not gonna take the advice and put in the work please

[wispy brook]

For the amount of pushback and defensiveness you have I would say you are not being a good student, nor should everyones energy go towards troll behaviour.
Other people are actually happy to receieve help. Goddamn

[reef phoenix]

Yeah youre very much defensive about this. You need to drop it and accept the fact that you dont know as much as you think you do

[viral idol]

That you already got in your PC or phone or whatever....

[wide stirrup]

pretty sure hes digital

[pure apex]

so its too much work to put it on your pc

[noble sleet]

Idk what this sentence means but ok. I can prove it whenever i want

I have the skills and proof to back up my claims on the advice ive been giving

[viral idol]

Thats a reason why i asked for god damn help about how to do cell shading maybe? But i dont think i mentioned that i want a help in type of yeah just use more refferences.

[noble sleet]

I can do it traditionally too

[reef phoenix]

Do you honestly think that its an impossible task? Its not like we are using flip phones lol

[noble sleet]

Cel. Shading. Is. Irl. Shading. But. Posterized. To. 3. Values. As. Said. Before. Whats. Not. To. Get.

[wispy brook]

art is from reality 🥲 im crying.

[pure apex]

bro left

[wide stirrup]

show me your attempt at cel shading and your attempt at realistic shading and I can point out the similarities and differences of both

[pure apex]

[wide stirrup]

they aren’t too different

[upbeat yew]

Just. Send. Something. We are trying to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[reef phoenix]

You asked for help, you got help “thats not help. I dont like it. Give me different help” meanwhile 6+ more people come in and say the same dang thing. Ig its not real help if you say its not

[wide stirrup]

well uh
lets all calm down here folks

[upbeat yew]

Do you think we’re trying to gaslight you or something? I understand if that’s not the way you learn, but then refusing to send art examples so we can take a different approach is just a little frustrating

[reef phoenix]

Yeah og post is deleted ig

Bro didnt want help then. Even tho we all gave it

[upbeat yew]

🤷‍♂️

[wide stirrup]

not gonna lie bro needed more anatomical practice before learning how to shade n render

but who am i to complain

[pure apex]

hes trying to defend his ego by not posting his art

[upbeat yew]

His loss ig

[wispy brook]

other people need help more, clearly. 200+ messages vs avg 10 on other posts in this channel. damn

[upbeat yew]

It’s mostly arguing to no avail unfortunately

[noble sleet]

Thanks yall for backing me up. Even if i did get a bit mean at times oml.

[austere aspen]

Cel shading mentioned?

[upbeat yew]

I’ve been in arguments like that too it’s really hard to keep your cool, no worries

[wide stirrup]

bro did NOT want to learn 😭

[wispy brook]

probably why art school didnt help 🥲

[queen forge]

There’s no point arguing with OP. They clearly don’t actually want any help and aren’t receptive to any sort of suggestions/ constructive criticism.

[noble sleet]

Bro was a minor. No way he was in art school

[reef phoenix]

Honestly tho we all were at a stage like that. As i like to say “peak of mount stupid” thinking youre an expert when you are definitely a beginner. Bro was literally in the 13-17 range. Either in middle or highschool and claimed to have been in art school. Bro must think art foundations 1 is art school

[wispy brook]

XDD

[wide stirrup]

im more of a “valley of despair” myself

[noble sleet]

Felt. I was like that in middle school. So glad i outgrew it

[queen forge]

They’re probably talking about an extracurricular art class on the weekends

[reef phoenix]

Fr man

[wispy brook]

when critique feels just like attack

should not have put critique welcome

[reef phoenix]

I took introductions to ceramics so obviously i am an expert

[noble sleet]

Me when i take bio 1 and think i can cure cancer

[upbeat yew]

😂😭

[reef phoenix]

Oo oo i got it i got it. I took highschool phycology 1 so i have to know as much as a therapist and psychiatrist right?

[viral idol]

Nah its just funny that yall think i am gonna light up,grab my tablet,plug it in and draw just to proove my point

No need to do that if i am confident enough to say that i know if i know its true

I dont need no one to approve if i say the truth if I know i say the truth so no reason and logic behind it

And its not hard to understand that some people learn in different way.If someone never seen how cel shading works,try it and jump to it from realism.I will bet it will look bad because there are i dont know maybe no god damn half tones,mid tones etc?

But i guess somebody will argue over it again anyway

[wide stirrup]

you do the same process with no half and midtones

try it and come back later

👍

[upbeat yew]

Cell shading is so that you don’t have to worry about all the different variables of realistic lighting. That’s why it’s used for cartoons, you use minimal values :3

[viral idol]

Yes but you still gotta know how to use it in a way that it wont look idk wierd maybe?

[wide stirrup]

u dont know till ya try

like all the shadows and stuff go in the same places

[viral idol]

I can do it easily in realism or to draw asaro head to show planes of how light interact with a face.But i cant convert it so easily to cell shading because i still learn about it

[reef phoenix]

By using references and looking at the dominant shadows. How are you not getting this

[noble sleet]

Yall jusy leave chat

Its gonna go nowhere

Bros too delulu

[wide stirrup]

no bruh let him try

[upbeat yew]

Yeah this isn’t worth the time anymore I’m gonna go back to studying heads

Cya

[viral idol]

Buddy,i could send you my work but i am not gonna put effort just to prove you something so cut it allright?

[noble sleet]

Said they werent gonna post their work or try its ok

[noble sleet]

Yeah we said send ur work but u said no

[viral idol]

Reason?

And btw

[upbeat yew]

SO WE CAN CRITIQUE YOU

[noble sleet]

To pinpoint the problem and becuz the msth wasnt mathing

U declined the offer to send pre existing works

[viral idol]

U said i dodge so how is it that you still didnt replied to how few seconds from video helped me more than refferences? How is it if your theory is so great than.

[noble sleet]

Cuz ur doing it wrong lmao

[viral idol]

I literally just needed to see process

[noble sleet]

Jusy go waych some speedpaints of cell shaders then if u want process

[reef phoenix]

And so long as you dont show us we are just going to assume you dont know what youre talking about and only took middle school art foundations as “art school”

[viral idol]

If i know process i can adjust it and THAN use refferences btw

So

First understanding than refferences

my whole point

bye

[lyric river]

dont leave i just made popcorn

[reef phoenix]

Ok. Have fun not getting the help you are convinced you need when its very much is what you need

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-gif-14980450905264007240

[wide stirrup]

buddy we’re at end credits

[lyric river]

😭 but i just got here i need more drama

[noble sleet]

U mean post credits

[wide stirrup]

rip

[noble sleet]

This is like marvel teasing the next movie at the end of iron man

[noble sleet]

Thing is in art they go hand in hand. There isnt one without the other

So ok 👍

[reef phoenix]

Then multiverse of madness is what you watch next because you didnt watch anything in the mcu until then

[viral idol]

Well you finally at least understood what i meant all the time

Like it was this simple

Idk

[reef phoenix]

Uh… wut

Now you suddenly agree with us?

[viral idol]

Cause i didnt said refferences suck

I just said

Its bad when you dont know about how certain style works

Or

At least for me

[noble sleet]

The new dr strange movie i hated it. It didnt need to exist

[viral idol]

Althought i know realism

[noble sleet]

Im not agreeing

[viral idol]

I learnt realism because of refferences.Not so easy with other styles i need to see process for that idk

[reef phoenix]

You should learn both side by side tho. Not one completely then learn another. Learn it in one and adapt it as you go

[noble sleet]

I said ok to ur statement and said the opposite in the reply

[reef phoenix]

Also i guarantee you havnt actually learned realism

You just know what your middle school teacher taught or something

[viral idol]

I mean your opinion but u cant know anyway

[reef phoenix]

What

[noble sleet]

Ight cya ciborg. Gotta drive my grandma to her errands

[viral idol]

Yeah its not like i spent a lot of time on learning from other artists but u good

[reef phoenix]

Yeah youre clearly not getting it so imma just