#Slight rework of WOPs??

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

timber ibex
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So idea was to have the option similar as it is now to write them to paper or not. HOWEVER we get to know what is on the scroll. Then to use it, it would be like a consumable so others can't take our work from us. On the flip side we have to store them.

To farther give ideas maybe having a wop book that can be leveled up to store say a max of 10 pages(WOPS) or something to counter balance SOME of the storage issues?

Personally I rarely use wops because of others using them before me in the past left a bad taste.

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Tried to edit to add: the non- written ones would remain the same as they are now. Store them how you see fit so they don't take up game storage but risk others having used them first

torn dome
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Yeah I just love the idea of crafting WOPs, and then the ones that you care about you spend additional resources and inv space in order to lock them to your character and make them easier to use

thin willow
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I think the WoP system is very creative. The main issue with the current system I have is that they expire / get overridden without you knowing that they did.

It sucks to be in the middle of a dragon run, die, and then sit there spamming the chat with expired resurrection words of power.

I'd be fine with them being account bound, even if they have an expiry date. As long as I can somewhat rely on them working or not.

hollow kite
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Great idea, I've always thought it was a bit strange the WOP get overwritten. Would feel 10x better if they have a clear expiration date, and this would also encourage players to actually use them more!

prime burrow
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i would certainly appreciate some way to know when they will expire, and the ability to "lock them in" even at some expense sounds quite nice.

balmy copper
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The heart of the WOP system is that you need to used them or lose them. They are extremely powerful, and the random time to use them is the balance to that.

prime burrow
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a deterministic expiry time would still be balanced

balmy copper
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Would it? The suggested changes make them much better and more dependable.

prime burrow
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the op didn't suggest a deterministic expiriy, multiple respondents did.

Knowing when they expire will make them more dependable, which makes them better, but that could be counterbalanced by making them not last as long (on average) as they currently do.

Depending on how long you set the expiry you could either keep them around as good as they are now, or make them near-useless (by making them expire a minute after they're generated, for instance), or much stronger, by having them not expire for a long time. The fact that the knob can be adjusted so much means it can be balanced.

timber ibex
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An expiration date is fine too. I think taking up storage helps balance it too while yes they are powerful storage space itself is also powerful and they would take up a slot each. The only real change would be to the written ones (which we can currently do, but we would be storing unknown WOPs). Honestly I should have asked the book idea as an after thought in a seperate post, but even with that I'm not asking for it for free we'd have to earn it someway aswell as being limited.

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Also something else to consider is the pure number you have to craft to even get ones you'd want - I helped someone craft 100 not to long ago and in the end only 4 were actually good ones they planned to use. Even though they had all intentions of using them over the next couple days (less than 72 hours after being made) one of them had already been used before they got to it. Some of those materials are NOT a dime a dozen.

civic zealot
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(WTS 45 flapskull and 40 slug buddy WOPs)

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I would like to be able to transcribe specific WOPs into scrolls, and allow for them to be tradable.

halcyon bloom
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Yeah I find wops to be a pain and really like the scrolls idea as a solution. Can have the cost to write it be fairly high even would still be very nice

civic zealot
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I think just some ink and parchment should be enough. The cost of the WOP is already a part of making it and the rng rarity of useful ones.

velvet flame
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The system is just... problematic from the ground up because of the compromises the game has to make in order to have them.

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Personally, i think half the cost should be in summoning them and the other half to be paid in transcribing them or bottleing them.

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What i personally, off the cuff idea, would do. Disclamer im not someone who is unable to see other ideas as being better.

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Add word bottling where you can create bottles and release them for their powers, at the cost of having them ocupy a non stackable bottle that gives glassmaking a bit more omph, and save the super valuable ones.

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But i would also probably 1. add specific recipes for each wop that are like the brewing recipes maybe, to get each effect specifically. serbule tp might only be to add a portion of sugar to the normal wop recipe, but for the wop 6 it could be a demon heart or antimagic sand to get the . (to be clear i would also possibly tie this mechanic to specific alters or something inworld and add crafting cooldowns so you can't make and bottle 100 words)
-I might also clearly state the magic is always shifting so the recipes can change to make it clear to players that the devs will use this as an item sink/prohibition on specific words.

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  1. shift and change some of the wop to be multiusage, do players are more likely to use them.
    Example: Illusion wop grants dodge % chance to both animals and bipeds for its duration.
    Whiney voice also grants small psychic dmg to all attacks.
    Body odor grants small poison dmg to all attacks.
    Hp regen grants small % increase in exp thanks to the good mood you're in for feeling so healthy.
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  1. possibly remove/rehome the teleport words effects to other mechanic.
    Basically to remove the chance of someone overwriting a wop with a tp word so you have no risk of getting teleported outside a dungeon you're halfway through every time you use one. Either segregate the wop tp words to their own TP word of power recipe, or add another mechanic around teleporting or moving around the world to replace the effects.
tawdry ether
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I've had this exact same idea. There should be a way to take crafted WOPs and itemize them to save/sell. I think it would be fine if those items expired as well.

sudden sequoia
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But.. you can transcribe and store/sell WoPs. D:

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I've bought a bunch from players.

balmy copper
orchid meadow
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I love the system, I wouldn't mind it changing though. It sucks to have to give a refund to a dud....

errant bolt
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Many QOL features in PG are unlockable. Recently I did a feedback that there could be a UI feature that could be unlocked that tracks the WOPs. The best way to manage wops is with an app and I don't believe that should be the case.

sudden sequoia
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Like the ingame notepad? D:

balmy copper
errant maple
# orchid meadow I sell them currently on strekios I offer refunds for duds. I transcribe them to...

Yeah I think the main issue with duds is that the incidence rate is much higher with lower syllable count WoPs - adding more syllables to the base number would probably be the easiest fix programatically - since it means there's more possible WoPs and thus less chance of overwriting within a certain timeframe.

I do agree with the idea of a deterministic timer during which a WoP is "safe" though - it doesn't make them "save and forget" with people building a giant stockpile of good WoPs, but it gives you some information and risk/reward on how long you risk keeping a word rather than using it/selling it.

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Saving to a scroll WOULD make sales/storage easier but I feel like thats probably a bit TOO good even if it had an associated cost - at the very least I would expect that to be locked behind something like high level sigil scripting to make it a thing you have to invest into.

balmy copper
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WOP have more sylables/letters as for higher versions of the skill. The lower versions are easy to make and get used a lot, leading to higher turnover. If by 'adding more sylables' you mean 'create a larger pool of possible outcomes so a word will, on average, not be created for a longer time', then yes, that would help a bit in limiting duds.
And, that might be an easy thing to code that having a timer on each word created and not allowing it to be created again for some period.

And, frankly, it won't stop the mentality of "Need to save these for emergencies" like the people who save every potion in videogames for the end boss, and never use them. Each of us can limit duds, and whatever disappointment some people feel, by using WOP and not keeping them around.

I'm not saying we can't make them better, but that could also come with players slightly changing how they view them and their behavior in using resources. WOp aren't something to hoard. They are milk on the shelf, going stale.

errant maple
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Yeah, I just mean increasing the pool of possible outcomes.

Its obviously not a likely outcome but the way the system is set up right now, you could make a word and have it overwritten before you even write it down, much less say it - I think a known minimum time would just make it a bit more predictable, even if that's only a few hours.

orchid meadow
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Part of me really likes the current design, it does make them feel special, and I don't mind that level 0s are so easy to override. I basically assume a dud in 3 (way less than that in practice though) I don't know how common people use them though. The higher tier ones while they do get duds every once in a while, it's rarely within 3-5 days from generation.

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I am torn, obviously improving reliability would make selling them easier, but at the same time one reason they are so awesome is their rarity.

slender sigil
orchid meadow
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I think it's the only way to do it. I'ts only happened about 3- 4 times since I started in april

velvet flame
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Hmm, well the thing is WOP are needed for highest level play, and In my opinion they... hmm how to put it

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They need a couple of tweaks to make them not awful if you get super unlucky. and they need some words of power like the teleport ask you if you want to tele so you don't get screwed by a overwritten tele word in the gauntlet or nmc, or even the new dungeon when it comes out... its not likely but it has happened to me with the lower inventory expansion words.

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and like i said, it'd be nice if they added slight utility to other words so everyone can have a use for them even if they arn't an animal with the illusion wop.