#Looting keybind redesign

94 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fallen junco
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I see various problems with the current implementation of how are monsters looted, skinned, butchered etc and the key macros that can be set up for this.

  1. Having these actions on different buttons is very awkward and pressing these actions one after another as they are designed is slow and unhealthy (carpal tunnel syndrome). With the amount of enemies being killed in fast pace that especially groups offer is unfeasible.
  2. Binding all these buttons together to a single keybind is the natural outcome of this issue. Having 1 button for skinning and 1 for butchering and also burying.
  3. There are situations where looting a corpse isn't desirable but burying is (because garbage loot), or not wanting to bury instead because don't want enemies to respawn so quickly. As it is now key binds only offer 2 different macro keys and that's it.

I propose a different system where various corpse actions will be tied to a single hotkey and not one action - one key and ofc having the possibility to make more than 2 macros. This would be set in settings as previously but with the change that player chooses a keybind and attaches to it different corpse actions as they see fit.

The goal here is to avoid micro management which is inevitable during regular dungeon delving.

There are likely other ways to accomplish this so curious about the thoughts of people.

tight pasture
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Make a macro outside the game for corpse action?

fallen junco
# tight pasture Make a macro outside the game for corpse action?

that isn't as feasible because have to take into account lag, hiccups and stuff (this makes it unreliable) then also this would shrink pool of available hotkeys. If i for example bind space to do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 then i would in practicality lose this key because it would always do these key presses, while a context sensitive keybind avoids all these issues. Context sensitivity is only available in-game.

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With context sensitivity, player is able to choose anything from keyboard/mouse, which is the beauty of it.

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One last thing is that even if i was to ignore all the problems associated with using an external script. It would solve this only for me, and not for myriad of players playing this game. Telling players to make a script isn't very professional from a developer standpoint.

silent needle
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I'm not sure I take issue with this as it is. You're right that more granular control is necessary but that's already here and I, for one, don't feel there's any beneti to simply pressing more buttons per corpse. I'd rather just separate out the commands I want to more directly scrutinize the use of in the moment.

fallen junco
# silent needle I'm not sure I take issue with this as it is. You're right that more granular co...

I'm asking for a meaningful solution to this issue but if people don't see this as a problem then that's the major problem. I see people not burying their corpses cause they don't want to be bothered with having loot in their inventory that they don't want, cause it would require for them to manually drag and drop it after each such corpse. The reason for this is that mechanics don't allow for a dynamic system, unless going with the tediousness of pressing 3 buttons per each corpse. Which is understandably not something that people wanna do given the sheer amount of corpses and fast pace of dungeoneering.
I can see another solution to slow down the pace at which enemies die and this would solve many more problems, even with respawns but i'm not sure how popular that would be. Still soemthing to consider.
If fights were slower, this would allow employment of more tactics in combat, but that's a total redesign of soo many things related to combat.

silent needle
# fallen junco I'm asking for a meaningful solution to this issue but if people don't see this ...

Except they do not have to manually drag and drop anything. You can simply click it and that's if you only one or two things from the kill. Otherwise the loot all button still functions on its own.

As I mentioned, taking the loot all key out of the multi-bind setup solves this problem. That's exactly what I've done. You have to scrutinize your loot anyway but if you bury the corpse anything on the corpse is buried with it so you aren't actually forced to take everything. It's simply one extra button press at worst.

fallen junco
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Also i am not looking for help, this is a suggestion channel.

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Also not sure what you mean by dropping items with one click. There isn't such possibility.

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Everyone and their mother are using 'macros' that is setting corpse actions to a single key. Taking this out of equation isn't a possibility for good reasons.

fallen junco
uneven ermine
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So using the existing in game keybind settings, it is essentially possible to do all corpse actions in 2 buttons. (I have mine set to 3 so I can seperate loot all)

image.png
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And it's really one button

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because you either choose to skin or to butcher

fallen junco
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And this is even disregarding eating option completely. And ignoring analyze genes.

uneven ermine
# fallen junco You don't have an option to decide whether you want to bury or not since it's on...

If you don’t want to bury, just unbind the bury key to something else. Most of the time you want to bury your enemies for the convenience of other players unless you guys are struggling in a dungeon or something.

I didn’t set to bind my eating key because I’m not a werewolf and I don’t know what analyzing genes are yet :P. If it interferes with autopsy then I’ll put it on a separate keybind.

fallen junco
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Let's say you have half the enemies that you want to loot and half that you don't. There's no middle ground. Sure there are some areas but this is more of an exception than a rule.

uneven ermine
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Well what you want is a loot filter :P

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Which would be very nice, I agree

fallen junco
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Glad we are moving to the topic of this suggestion. A loot filter is also an option.

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Wouldn't solve the problem with burying, then eat/skin/butcher/analyze (afaik analyze isn't compatible with these 3 but i could be wrong).

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could theoretically disregard extract skulls and simply turn it off in settings if need be

uneven ermine
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So the actions are done in order

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Burying is done last

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The order of operations usually goes Autopsy/Gene Analysis —> Skinning/Butchering—>Skull Extraction —>Bury/Eat

fallen junco
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ok, so you'd have to choose whether you want to autopsy or gene analyze in the first step, then more decision making in second step, skull extraction is issue when tough on inventory space (which can happen often), eating is important for werewolves

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you can probably see that there's many more options here than allowed currently, assuming that person doesn't want ot have each of these actions on separate keybind and press them one after another

uneven ermine
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The thing is that most enemies you fight don’t have all options available or you shouldn’t want to consider

fallen junco
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i am having issues already and there isn't any available solution for this

uneven ermine
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You can only extract the skull of humanoid enemies.

For animals you typically would only want to skin/butcher them and not extract their skulls

fallen junco
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animal skulls can be extracted as well, in some cases

uneven ermine
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Brain bugs can only be butchered, etc.

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Yes but like I said in the order of operations

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Extracting skulls takes precedent after skinning/butchering

fallen junco
uneven ermine
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No

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The game just shows you all of the available options

fallen junco
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ok, but you don't need to tell me obvious things

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if the corpse action system was dynamic and would adapt to enemy then that might work, but currently this isn't so

uneven ermine
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But isn’t it?

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I can’t do the same corpse actions on a skeleton as I can a pig

fallen junco
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it doesn't matter, your keybinds are set already and they aren't dynamic

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then obviously you have also have enemies that you can skin/butcher, loot/don't loot, this is 4 different possibilities

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unsure if this is what you mean but if you can't butcher an enemy and you choose to butcher it and then bury, it will simply skip the step

uneven ermine
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Under my keybind setup

fallen junco
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I don't know how to explain further that having an option to choose the combo of actions being done at a press of a button instead of having to press different buttons to get what you want is much superior.

uneven ermine
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If I fight a ghoul (which only has the option to extract a skull):

I will press my 2 key.

It will autopsy the ghoul —> it will attempt to butcher the ghoul but it can’t because the option is not available—> it will attempt to extract the skull of the ghoul because it is next on the order of operations and is successful—>it will bury the ghoul.

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I mean I understand your point Eskril

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I just think the current system can do what you want

fallen junco
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It can't do that.

uneven ermine
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You just have to individually tweak some things

fallen junco
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I want for example just bury a corpse without anything else to do with it and i can't do that without having bury action set to a separate keybind.

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Unless i go right now to settings and change it on the fly.

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and there is no time for that in group combat

uneven ermine
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Well, I guess the most straightforward solution would be to add a third column of alternate available keybinds

fallen junco
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But the thing with bury is just an example, there are countless other situations to which current system can't adapt, since it can't adapt at all.

fallen junco
uneven ermine
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You say context sensitive corpse actions which sounds like a much more daunting task

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Like individual settings for every ghoul or pig you fight? Or individual settings you take while you are a wolf?

fallen junco
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I can't say how difficult it would be to do that, but it would fit better in the existing window.

fallen junco
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like for example you press 1, do all action and butcher, press 2 - do skinning with all actions, press 3 - skip looting and butcher, 4 - skil looting and skin, 5 - bury

uneven ermine
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So for example…me pressing the 1 button and Autopsy/Skinning/Skull Extracting/Burying all at once?

fallen junco
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yes

uneven ermine
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Like what the existing system can do then but is limited to 2 columns

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Therefore just add more columns

fallen junco
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i mean, i don't care but but adding more columns isn't visually pleasing when you need it just for this

uneven ermine
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I’m just talking about more columns in the keybind settings

fallen junco
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ikr

uneven ermine
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You’re saying

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Adding two more columns of rectangles

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To the right here

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Is not gonna solve your problem?

fallen junco
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yes definitely, cause it would affect all keybinds, not just this one part

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it would sovle my problem but wouldn't look good

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can't look at it just from the point of view of having the thing done

uneven ermine
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The settings can look as ugly as they want if I only need to set the keybinds once.

fallen junco
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i already said that i don't care, but just imagine how it would look if you add 3 more rows?

uneven ermine
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Columns, not rows

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But add a scroll bar

fallen junco
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i meant columns

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Why add more columns when you can add more rows for just this thing specifically. Makes much more sense to me.

uneven ermine
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I guess Citan could add 20 extra rows for the combo actions you’re looking for

fallen junco
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I'm making the suggestion this way in order for it to be acceptable from developer standpoint as well.

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I can already see that there's no way in hell to add 3 more columns there.

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But ok, it's not my concern

uneven ermine
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Well sure, I’m just thinking through the practical implementation of what you want to have.

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Anyways at this point we’re just disagreeing with the minor minutia

fallen junco
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Ok, this is for Citan to decide what's easier to implement. The issue here is of getting any attention to this issue. Which is likely somewhere on the bottom of his current list.