Tutorial island

[velvet kindle]

I am not sure if it has been brought up already or not but I would like to suggest overhauling the tutorial island experince. Based off the feed back of 5 diffrent friends that I convinced to try out the game every single one mentioned the game doesnt really entice them until after they got off the island at lv10+. For example all of them including my self, wasted time leveling skills that they didnt need, not understanding how the loot/gear system worked. We all agreed that the game doesnt start until you get into serbule and new players spend to much time on the island which in my opinion hurts the game. I love the no handle bars approach to the game, thats what makes it unique, but a few tweaks to get players to see the real potential the game offers could be made to retain more people. I love this game but I feel like the first few hours of a new players experince should be improved on so the game can grow even more.

[median skiff]

How would they improve it though, what would you add/remove? I guess that depends on a player to player basis, cus back when I tried out the demo I did play it for a few hours and loved it so much I just bought the game right away. And back then it wasn’t split into base game + dlc, so it was around 40$ 🙂

[velvet kindle]

I would watch and see how much an average player stays in the starter area and compare it too the data of how long a new player stays logged in on average for the first time and make changes from there. Adjust things like how far a player has to walk todo a quest, or the number of enemies/items collected needed to finish a quest, spawn timers.etc to shorten the amount of time they spend on the island. I my self spent 2 long play sessions trying to explore and see everything on the island. I think it would be a huge improvement if you can shorten that into 1 session so when they get to the serbule they will want to come back and explore the world more rather then feeling burnt out on the island over a few sessions.

[median skiff]

I do agree that there should be some way of letting players know that even better advantures are awaiting them once they are off the island and that they can always come back to it if they want (I still go back to that chest where I keep things I don’t use often)

[lament spruce]

every npc on the island talks about getting off the island, or how it's not possible. if that doesn't give people a clue, i wonder how they fare once they're in serb, building rep with the NPCs there etc

[spare snow]

Personally I found the tutorial island amazing and once I got off it, I was kinda lost trying to figure out what the hell am I supposed to do now? I feel like most people I've spoken to have enjoyed the tutorial island as well. Maybe it needs some slight tweaking but probably won't be a priority.

I do agree that they can put more emphasis on the fact that you can return to the island after you've left so people don't get FOMO going to the mainland.

[desert wave]

From what I've seen, the release is a mess, overpopulation, bugs everywhere. The only suggestions with any real chance of being implemented are ones that offer a simple fix for a major problem and are very easy to implement. Everything else just isn't realistic right now and for quite a while i think.

[median skiff]

there are two abilities you can use to point you in the right direction, and one cast an array of light you can follow to the goal

not sure if it works with every quest though

you get them when you level up foraging

[queen stag]

Getting better all the time. Things looking great on Sterikios today. No lag in serb

[pine lake]

Honestly, I didn't have much of a problem with tutorial island, but I also almost have 20 years playing mmos so I picked up on the systems almost instantly.

I did get rather lost as fuck at first though as it gives you that brief tutorial and just pretty much says, "here you go, figure it out"

[pine lake]

when a mmo gets a population spike, more bugs get discovered so I don't entirely blame them.

[pine lake]

I think there should be an obvious quest giver at the start to show you how the quest system works or something, as I was lost as fuck at the beginning as it was not clear to me at all how quests work, if quests were even a thing, nothing. Quests a bit different from even older mmos in the sense that it is not very clear what is a questgiver and not.

[pine lake]

that would be my biggest take for tutorial island, and keep everything else how it is.

[pine lake]

even if its a guy that is literally in front of the players that spawn, that exists for people to talk to and say, "Go kill 5 skeletons" and gives a bit of exp, I think it'd make a long way for being like, "OH yeah, quest givers are not hyper obvious and gives more of an example of how quests actually work in the game.

I wandered about 30 minutes before figuring out how quests work. And thats me being very experienced in the mmo genere.

This is coming in from just solo, having absolutely no one to help me get the fundamentals of the game though.

[velvet kindle]

I had a very similiar experince

[spare snow]

I agree with you on this. The start experience once you get off the island would be superior if you had to exit through the spider caves. Serbule I found extremely overwhelming once I got to the mainland whereas Serbule Hills was much more digestible. For a game and community that encourages avoiding searching for answers outside the game you kinda assume you would be dropped off in the noob area and it took me a long time before I realised Serbule Hills was a better area for me to start in.

[frail osprey]

On the other hand, the island is EXACTLY the same as the rest of the game. So, making it easier will just move that realization later on. And, since the island and demo are essentially equivalent, that would likely mislead demo players.

Also, I agree that teleport is vastly over emphasized. - Not sure why it’s a demo skill (other than to mention to demo players that the game has it), especially since the gem is so extremely limited as to make it unavailable for most for many levels.

[manic oasis]

One easy fix to the early game I see would be name plates. The fact everything start as white colored text, make the game look barren and make no sense when it come to what is a mob/NPC/loot/players etc. so I would go with a basic color pick of diffrent colors that the player can change as they see fit later anyways

that's what I personally use but something around those line would be great

or at least all different starting colors to make it easy to figure out your early environment

[pine lake]

yeah the fact that npcs and players by default are white nameplates am dislike.

[velvet kindle]

I agree

[spiral sorrel]

there needs to be a hard to ignore pointer to the "stuff to do" tab

[prisma arch]

It's really not, though. You don't need to do that many surveys to reach the Serbule blue mineral ones, and those will give you heaps of amethysts.

The issue isn't that the gems are limited, it's that it's not immediately obvious how to get more (i.e., learn Surveying).

[proper latch]

the tutorial island is what hooked me to the game. it is extremely well made for people who take the time to read and explore.

[frail osprey]

Same thing. you don’t know how to get them = cannot get more = limited.
True, it’s not limited once you know how, but until you know & can do it, it’s limited.
(It’s costly to a very low level & have you to do several to get a specific gem & it’s amongst higher level mobs than you (just leaving the island) - to that, there’s really no need to use it - so much to learn and do within runnable distance).
My point remains: it’s not needed at tutorial (or even for several levels) and so better introduced later.
-# Personally, I’d swap where you learn transmutation with learning teleport.

[haughty cave]

I would say there are several barriers.

• Need Surveying levels to start getting it
• If you teleported from the demo, you won't end up in the right zone to stumble on Surveying, anyway (although you do if you exit via the cave)
• Even if you do stumble on Surveying, you have no way to know that will get you what you want

Learning it exists in the tutorial directly contributes to you not knowing or training how to get amethysts, and therefore hampers your ability to do teleportation.

[prisma arch]

Okay, but removing it from the tutorial just means you don't have the knowledge or training to get amethysts later, while also removing the possibility of teleporting "back to base" at a time when travel is limited because the new player doesn't have a horse yet.

Though I'd certainly agree with introducing transmutation on the island. I'm prety sure that suggestion has been raised before, and it's still a good one.

[thin haven]

I really disagree with this. Cause this game is very much one of exploration. By introducing teleportation early you're

1. making sure new players know there's fast travel. I could EASILY see new players getting turned off by the idea of having to walk everywhere, even if thats inaccurate.
2. Training new players that they learn skills from NPCs
   and 3) pushing new players to engage with the community. If this was a single player game I would see the issue of teleporting not putting you near surveying. But its not. You depend on the community a LOT. Before this game, my attitude in MMOs was very much "this is a single player and eventually I'll run into content that requires groups, in which case I guess I'll deal with other people and maybe make some friends." But because I couldnt figure out a lot of things on my own, I had to ask, and as a result learned how helpful and lovely the community was and started to actually participate in it

[haughty cave]

Personally, I think that teleportation would be better taught at the inn in Serbule Hills, that way you still get it right after leaving the island, it's right by where you learn Surveying, and they can make the connection clear.
It still teaches new players that it exists and still teaches them they learn skills from NPCs.

I don't really think that having it on the island does #3 at all. New players in the tutorial can't even interact with other players if they are using the demo, which most will be. There's no trading, no global chat, no grouping. Even after they buy the game, buying gems from stalls is expensive, and they are more likely to use the wiki or Google to find where to get their own than they are to ask someone. Even if they do ask, it's one question with a one-sentence answer. That's not fostering a ton of engagement.

[thin haven]

that hasnt been my experience at all. Whenever I see someone ask about amethyst it's usually a pretty long explainer of like "you can do dailies in the ranalon den, you can survey, which you get in serbule inn, or you can buy from players" as the cliffs notes, but there's always follow up questions and further engagement

[haughty cave]

To be clear, I don't think it is in a bad spot right now, I just think it could be better.

I'm also coming at this with a new player's perspective, not a vet. I've only been playing about a month.

[thin haven]

tbh i sort of assume anyone on the new servers are new players

unless I recognize the name

[jagged edge]

Could just have the teleportation trainer give you a quest to meet surveying lady before leaving tut island

[haughty cave]

Fair.

[thin haven]

that would be a pretty good solution lol

[old cosmos]

While I wouldn't argue that it could use maybe a little polish, I really like Tutorial Island, and it was enough to hook me that I bought the game VERY shortly after finishing it. I absolutely loved that they made you figure it out, and I never felt like any skills I was learning felt pointless, I was more in wonder of "There's so many skills, I wonder what THAT one is for!" Like I said, maybe it could use a little more polish, but overall I think it's a pretty solid intro that teaches you all the mechanics you actually need (skilling up, doing quests, reading the quests themselves to figure it out, using a vendor, teleporting).

[haughty cave]

I absolutely agree with that sentiment, and I bought the game as soon as I wandered out of that dungeon into Serbule Hills.
Like I said earlier, the tutorial isn't bad, and teleportation being there isn't, either. Things could be slightly better, though.
Does it need to be better? Maybe not. But it can't hurt if there's some time to polish things just a little here and there.
But only a little polish, it doesn't need to be sanitized and scrubbed down like so many MMOs have become.

[thin haven]

Honestly that idea of having the teleportaion guy on anagoge give you a quest to go see the surveying lady seems like the perfect little bit of polish

Its an incredibly small change but would go a long ways to making teleportation feel like a more connected part of the progression

Although maybe moving blue surveys from serbule to serbule hills would be necessary too, not sure how fast surveying levels when you first start out

[frail osprey]

You don’t get that knowledge on the island. Pretty much have to /ooc to get that knowledge. - Such a FAQ “Where can I find amethysts?” Pretty much tells the whole story.

[old cosmos]

I don't know, you say it pretty much tells the whole story, but any game in that I DON'T have to do a bunch of research, including OUT of game, doesn't hook me as much. I LOVE using the wikis in games. I love things being obscure and being needed to figure out, and I love your hand not being held. I don't know, maybe I'm in the minority, but the situation you describe is a PLUS to me.

[frail osprey]

I was talking about the knowledge of getting those gems. It’s not given on the island - only by players finding out themselves.

[old cosmos]

Yea, and that was a positive thing for me. When, after using teleport for like a week or so, I was finally down to my final gem, I (very happily) did a SMALL bit of research, found how to get them, and bam, I was off.

It was.... easy to figure out. They even have a /wiki feature in game.

That they tell you to use.

You don't really need an additional pop up for for how to find the gems imo, when they already tell you to use the /wiki command to find things. You already should have been doing that. If you don't, then you're ignoring one of the most important features of tutorial island.

[obtuse nimbus]

for what its worth, most of my friends that i tried to get into the game all seemed really impressed throughout the tutorial but then quit when they got to serbule and never played again

[haughty cave]

Being required to use out of game sources to learn how the game works is not a plus.
Having to figure things out is fine, fun, and good. But if the ways to figure it out are to go out of game or to have dumb luck stumbling on it, that's not good.
I very much like the vector quest idea.

[old cosmos]

We can certainly agree to disagree on this one. I 100% can see the arguments behind being able to have all the information available to you in game. For people with only 1 screen is a big one, for another it "breaks immersion" for those that are actually able to get totally immersed within a game (I can't). But even knowing all the counter arguments behind it, I still VASTLY enjoy games more when I have to do extra research outside of the game. So while I can see the plethora of arguments behind it, the more research I have to do on my other screen while playing the game is a HUGE extra source of enjoyment for me personally. I can't even begin to overstate just how much I enjoy it, and if I think about all my favorite games of all time - they all had me looking a ton of stuff up all the time. So yea, we'll have to agree to disagree, because I absolutely love it, with every fiber of my gamer being.

[obtuse nimbus]

i do like a nice in-game wiki, although i don't know how much of a boon it actually is

with that said, i prefer to play this game blind