lungmen-city

[versed pine]

I'm never paid enuf to do increased workload

[lean storm]

He called the cops, we did some investigation (camera footage review) turns out they were offered two girls on the street near a bar by a dude

And they were drunk as shit

The girls stole his room card while they were asleep and gave it to some dude

And the dude did walk in and rob them

Cuz the other girl opened the door silently from inside

Bro kept denying the prostitution allegations until we showed them bringing a girl each into their room

And they went “damn I was so drunk I can’t remember then”

Took them 5 hours to talk to a conclusion on what to do

[gray mesa]

This reminds me of the time i worked at a supermarket and it was christmas and the butcher section of the shop calls my register saying "Bro can you check if someone has some lamb inside her bag, we lost some and we dunno where it went" and i was like "Are you expecting me to inspect every single bag on rush hour for lamb?"

"Right let me call security instead"

[lean storm]

Night shift adventures are crazy at hotels

Often times it’s just drunk ppl wanting a room to sleep the night thru and they’re just normal ppl from a drinking session with ppl or sth

And sometimes it’s some silly adventures

[past pier]

he's the rizzler

[storm igloo]

the most effective rizz is money

[upper vale]

5k+ atk on JL

and 276% cdmg

[lean storm]

That is true

[past pier]

but that's temporary rizz

not permanent

[lean storm]

I mean yeah

That’s how they always rizz

They can’t settle for one girl evidently

[storm igloo]

well yeah but

in the context of a dude with 3 girls at once

i don't think permanant is his goal

[lean storm]

He could also be a ringleader of some totally legal activity

And got a room for two new girls

While the Lithuanian girl is his co partner

Ok they definitely did snort something

Or at least some of the girls did

[upper vale]

Ngl I don't think robin was better than RM tbh but eh

JL is just slow since Geppy has ice res so 40% res stat instead of 20%

Midka u can just spam mono qua and take down 1 elite at a time

[twilit tiger]

mm maybe i should try mono quantuming her but then idk what to run side 1

because uh 40% ice res on geppy

[upper vale]

U just brute force it

alot

JL/TY/Pela/HH should be fine

idk if u have HH tho

[twilit tiger]

i do but ive been doing bronya instead of ty

[upper vale]

take advantage of the moc buff for energy recov

can help keep 100% uptime

granted u won't get it every cycle

but it should help

rather than have Boingya eat all your sp

[twilit tiger]

she gives jl so many more actions though

[upper vale]

idk if its worth it tbh

[twilit tiger]

gdi the dog explosion doesnt give jl kill energy in time

[upper vale]

mono qua is also pretty slow

less spawning adds so its better but 3 elites and 1 boss is alot

and Midka can still charm through the eres of FX at times

[twilit tiger]

jl ult just did 6% to geppy

[upper vale]

slow moving

u can try other stuff wanker but im just telling u what I did

I can't go and offer up the idea of using RM or Robin

[twilit tiger]

i am suffering

oh he just sniped bronya

[upper vale]

[twilit tiger]

tingyun feels significantly worse

[versed pine]

Tingyun is an automatic magnet

that just attracts all kinds of attacks

[twilit tiger]

she did in fact die to wave 1

[upper vale]

U are swapping LCs on TY ye?

[twilit tiger]

i dont even know what you mean by that

[upper vale]

Boingya LC if u have it

aside from cogs/motp

[twilit tiger]

why would i put bronya lc on her

[upper vale]

It still applies when u select JL

and extra sp

every other ult

[twilit tiger]

that assumes tingyun will go right before jl

[upper vale]

30% dmg is decent tbh

[twilit tiger]

again that

assumes shes going right before jingliu

[upper vale]

TY should have high spd stat already

same with every support

[twilit tiger]

i

shubs

[upper vale]

minus boingya

[twilit tiger]

hold on

im sure that 30% dmg will be very useful for pela

[upper vale]

change a relic

[twilit tiger]

and uh very useful for pela again

[upper vale]

so she's a couple spd behind everyone else and 1 ahead jl

[twilit tiger]

that is so beyond suboptimal

[upper vale]

wanker thats like the whole point is to spd tune the team for junk like this

U know FFs entire team is gonna be 160+ spd

[twilit tiger]

nuking 35 speed off her just so she can activate bronya lc

[upper vale]

raise JL spd

Or the other 2 supports

[twilit tiger]

am i awake right now

[twilit tiger]

ff team doesnt care about speed tuning

[upper vale]

It does

as in everyone needs 160+

[twilit tiger]

the most it does is that she needs 130

[upper vale]

She gets 50 during ult state

[twilit tiger]

ye

[upper vale]

she outspeeds everyone

your team needs high spd

so she can break

[twilit tiger]

she needs 130 to act 3 times per ult

[upper vale]

IMC/Gal support the break

Why do u think I said her whole team is 160+

[twilit tiger]

i dont see why her team's speed matters at all

[upper vale]

IMC and Gal contribute a ton to break

[twilit tiger]

yeah and they'll all naturally outspeed her t1

[upper vale]

and FF in most cases will only deal 1 instance of break/superbreak during an ult state

u want extra break sources and super break hits

[twilit tiger]

i dont think we've been watching the same videos

[atomic rune]

[upper vale]

https://streamable.com/2ywox3

pain

[twilit tiger]

anyways uh idk why i humoured you

none of that has to do with speed tuning

[upper vale]

either way

rest of team needs high spd usually

don't need to drop TY down by 35 if the rest of the team isn't slow as shit

[twilit tiger]

theyll naturally build high speed because theyre supports thats not speed tuning

[twilit tiger]

wat

ty is at 169

jl is at 135

which actually i did math wrong because i was using bronya logic i'd drop her by 33

oh but she gets a 20% speed buff from a trace anyway so itll get all fucked anyway

[twilit tiger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nGt8lC0hEo

this build has firefly at 144 speed for some reason wtf

leakers try to make reasonable build challenge (impossible)

[upper vale]

Sustain

Galagher

the guy who contributes to alot of break

[twilit tiger]

technically not wrong either way

[lean storm]

Why is there a need for a uh

[upper vale]

its baity

[lean storm]

very specific speed amount

Like is there some kind of breakpoint or sth

[twilit tiger]

there isnt

[upper vale]

spd breakpoints exist

[lean storm]

Why specifically 144 is bad

[twilit tiger]

130 speed on firefly at most

[upper vale]

and 2 to tune a support

[twilit tiger]

oh

no

[upper vale]

to either be 1 ahead of a dps or 1 behind a dps

[twilit tiger]

i was talking about how thats an absurd amount of speed stats

[lean storm]

Why is 130 “at most”

[twilit tiger]

er

ok uh lemme start again

[upper vale]

she gains 50 in ult state

[lean storm]

Speed is the one thing I never understood in hsr

[upper vale]

which meets a breakpoint

swopey

[twilit tiger]

in terms of speed tuning, she needs at most 130 speed

[upper vale]

this is common in like every game like this

[twilit tiger]

ok that also doesnt sound right

the most speed tuning you need to do for her is getting her to 130

[lean storm]

Bro most of the jrpgs I played are rpgmaker

[twilit tiger]

thats what i meant

[lean storm]

And they’re usually very simplified because the games focus isn’t the gameplay but the lewd

[upper vale]

Swopey

U just play pron games

[lean storm]

Yes I do

[gray mesa]

The more you have of a stat the less useful said numbers are, law of deminishing returns

[lean storm]

The only non-nsfw jrpg I played are uhh

neptunia

And

There was one rpgmaker on steam

[twilit tiger]

well not in this case

[lean storm]

That was extremely fun to play

But I can’t remember the name of it

I need to go do some digging to find it

[twilit tiger]

its simply that the way speed works most values in between breakpoints aren't useful

[upper vale]

Lemme get the point right

U want the team to be fast for the AS mode wanker

Bosses have much higher toughness stat than what FF can output in a single ult state

IMC and Gal contribute a lot to this

So 160+

[lean storm]

I found it

Hero and Daughter

The only other jrpg I played besides neptunia

That wasn’t nsfw

[twilit tiger]

qq not critting with 85% hahahahahahahaha

[lean storm]

Gambler failing at gambling

[lean storm]

Also like

What’s the breakpoint even

What is it based off

[upper vale]

What

[twilit tiger]

generally 134 is the lowest

because it gets 2 turns in first cycle of moc

[lean storm]

Oh

So it’s optimization based off of moc

[twilit tiger]

swopey do you know how action value works

[upper vale]

Every mode swopey

[lean storm]

Yes and no

[upper vale]

134 maybe baseline for x actions

But u still want higher spd

[twilit tiger]

theres a certain amount of action value per cycle, speed breakpoints are the values you need to get x turns in y cycles

[gray mesa]

Wait HSR actions all have the same delay?

[twilit tiger]

theres probably a chart somewhere

[lean storm]

Roger getting some kind of tales vietnam flashback

Trails*

[twilit tiger]

ok this is first result on google

[lean storm]

182 speed damn

[gray mesa]

Well kinda because to me doesn't make a lot of sense since in trails crafts and arts have different delays based on what they are

Granted Trails also has "Advance turn" as a more common mechanic

[twilit tiger]

i mean roger hsr has 3 buttons

[lean storm]

Isn’t trails also basically 3 buttons

[gray mesa]

Yeah that game sucks

[lean storm]

Hence why “this game is just copypasted trails”

(I never played trails)

[gray mesa]

HSR is considerably dumbed down

[twilit tiger]

wtf i cant believe roger would say this

[lean storm]

Lmfao

[gray mesa]

I mean there's lots of things about trails that suck so not even wrong

Number 1 - Dating mechanic

[lean storm]

Whats wrong with dating

[storm igloo]

gachas are dumbed down by a lot so you're forced to pull more

the only flaw in trails combat is the fact that arts are so broken

[gray mesa]

The bonding system in trails has some of the best character building scenes for each of the characters in it which is atrocious

Since it's optional

And you can't see them all in one playthrough

Thankfully you can see most of them

[storm igloo]

you simply play a second playthrough

[gray mesa]

The games are 100 hours long

That's not a copout i'm afraid

[twilit tiger]

ok but roger have you considered that i dont care about all of the characters

[storm igloo]

don't let @hallow bough hear that

[lean storm]

They’re shorter if u skip everything you’ve seen

[gray mesa]

Neither do i but locking character building behind a mechanic like this is inherently bad

[twilit tiger]

god damn it qq keeps missing crits

[gray mesa]

Regardless if i start talking about bad things about trails i'll be here all day

[lean storm]

Dw roger I too hate nsfw games with multiple endings/routes that don’t allow you to see what would happen on other routes unless you restart from scratch

[upper vale]

Maybe just get 15 more crit wanker

[storm igloo]

why do you think these games have so many save slots?

you have no excuse

[twilit tiger]

well when fu xuan rerun gets here i can mald about her missing 97% crits so

[lean storm]

So you can use them all

[twilit tiger]

well if i can get a better orb she'll hit 100

[gray mesa]

I used 800+ save slots on my cold steel 4 run

[lean storm]

Ever since I played MGQ (my first proper h game anyways) I learned the joy of saving every certain amount of times

In different slot every time

Because corrupted saves suck massive balls

[storm igloo]

whenever i get bonding opportunity i just do all the guys first

then load the game

[versed pine]

I sure love seeing Joshua and Estelle date all game

[lean storm]

And i’d rather lose an hour or two of progress than 10 hours

[storm igloo]

and do the rest

[twilit tiger]

whatever im taking a break from moc

[gray mesa]

Xuan

That's

[versed pine]

ik

you're talking about cold steel

[gray mesa]

Not what i'm talking about

[twilit tiger]

off to farm talia

[gray mesa]

Speaking of sky tho

[versed pine]

but I wanted to make it a joke

[gray mesa]

Number 2

A certain ship

That ruins 2 characters

God above

[storm igloo]

is it || agate and tita ||

[versed pine]

besides Estelle and Joshua, who are you referring to

like

[gray mesa]

Yes nana

It is

FUCK

MY

LIFE

[versed pine]

will I see it in the 2nd game

or 3rd

[storm igloo]

ok cause i agree

[gray mesa]

||I LOVED AGATE||

[versed pine]

perhaps maybe the first near the end?

[gray mesa]

AND I CAN'T ANYMORE

VIYERWVGUÇIEWWÇ8V

[lean storm]

Why can’t anymore

[versed pine]

at least give me a hint of the when

[lean storm]

Did she do smth bad

[gray mesa]

||Agate is 28, Tita is 16||

[lean storm]

What’s wrong with that

Isn’t that better for you

[storm igloo]

[gray mesa]

A lot

[versed pine]

well swopey

maybe u should learn about those characters first

whoever they are

[atomic rune]

[versed pine]

that I don't want to learn yet

[lean storm]

Also they live in like medieval era or smth

[versed pine]

uh

[lean storm]

They don’t know about society standards and norms yet

[storm igloo]

medieval lmao

[versed pine]

yeah lemme just

[storm igloo]

they have giant robots

[lean storm]

Huh

[versed pine]

call my airships in and trains

[lean storm]

[versed pine]

also

HEED MY CALL, VALIMAR, THE ASHEN KNIGHT

[gray mesa]

||Agate's relationship with Tita in the first games is presented as a sibling one, because Agate lost his sister and saw her in Tita so he wanted to protect her||

Fast forward a few years ||Literally everyone is pushing them to a romantical relationship||

It's so fucking grating

[versed pine]

Valimar, twist his balls

[lean storm]

Oh it’s a dude

I thought you loved a girl

Wtf roger

[versed pine]

listen

[gray mesa]

||I love Agate as a character bruh||

[twilit tiger]

roger loves men

[gray mesa]

My waifu is ||Laura||

[twilit tiger]

this is known

[lean storm]

Also what’s wrong with that

[versed pine]

we can like male characters, they can be pretty cool in ways that girls can't be

[lean storm]

I find it wholesome personally

[gray mesa]

Yeah i don't

[versed pine]

swopey, as someone who doesn't have full context

all I will say is

[gray mesa]

It ruins both of their character arcs tbh

[storm igloo]

dswopey seems to be ignoring some key information

[versed pine]

Roger's issue is that them dating or w/e ruins their characterization or something

[lean storm]

No it’s a lot simpler

[storm igloo]

|| they met when she was 12 ||

[gray mesa]

||Granted Tita having a crush is okay she's young that happens, but Agate reciprocating is just wrong, which granted also doesn't really happen?|| it's more the external cast pushing this

HEAVILY

[versed pine]

wild

if u excuse me

[gray mesa]

||And Erika is insanely annoying, so much so that i hate her as a mother more than Irina||

[lean storm]

Yeah and he ||didn’t do anything for 4 years|| so what

[versed pine]

I'm going to beat up liu association section 2

[storm igloo]

💀

[lean storm]

you guys behave like age gaps don’t exist irl

[versed pine]

[gray mesa]

Swopey ||This is a crime irl||

[versed pine]

age gap, hmm alright a clue

I'll probably figure it out

when it gets brought up

[lean storm]

Roger you would literally date a 40 y.o. woman if you could

[gray mesa]

Xuan ffs you can piece it together

I mean i'm 24 bruh

That's

[versed pine]

I mean

[gray mesa]

Okay

[lean storm]

Is it a crime if you’re 20 years younger

Okay so how is their situation any problematic

[versed pine]

actually

[storm igloo]

lithuanian society is built different i guess

[versed pine]

no wait I think I know who

[lean storm]

especially if they don’t do anything sexual

[versed pine]

I'm going to make a guess

[storm igloo]

xuan go play the game

[versed pine]

it's that one bracer dude Estelle and Joshua meet in ch 2 and he's going out with the girl the duo meets in ch 3 right?

[storm igloo]

stop being prone to spoilers

[gray mesa]

Yes

Gj

You got there

[versed pine]

in terms of story knowledge

yes I have at least the beginning of ch 3 under my belt

but in terms of my own progression years ago

I'm like half way thru ch 2

[lean storm]

Ok but roger how is 26 and 16 (they can literally wait 2 years or just do it in secret idfk)

Any different

From 40 and 24

[versed pine]

which doesn't matter cause I have to like

[gray mesa]

It's 28 and 16

[versed pine]

start over if I want to "100%"

[lean storm]

Point stands

[storm igloo]

dswopey please tell me you're trolling

[gray mesa]

And the problem is that one of them is underage

[storm igloo]

cause it's extremely different

[lean storm]

2 years it’s 30 and 18

And then it’s legal

And they can do segging

So what

[twilit tiger]

roger you have to remember that swopey is lithuanian

[gray mesa]

It's still very weird

[versed pine]

me missing a certain point in ch 1 concerning a tower or w/e be like

[lean storm]

I mean in a sense sure but like

If it’s just romance

Why not?

They can wait 2 years especially if the dude is normal

[storm igloo]

that's not how this works

[versed pine]

she was technically still underage when they started dating right? I guess that's the true crux of the issue here besides it being an age gap

[gray mesa]

That's kind of grooming

[twilit tiger]

swopey are you really calling a 30-year old who's dating a teenager 'normal'

[gray mesa]

Not kind of

It is

[lean storm]

If she loves him and he loves her

Why not?

[versed pine]

Roger don't forget

[lean storm]

If it’s mutual and it happened over years what’s the problem

It’s not blood related

[twilit tiger]

good point xuan

[versed pine]

I'm pretty sure swopey plays BA as much as the next person in this room

[gray mesa]

Well thankfully i don't think he loves her, at least he keeps this issue at bay for most of the time, but everyone else treats him like a pedophile so

It's extremely disrespectful to Agate

[versed pine]

poor bro

[lean storm]

Idk I feel like people are just too quick to brush it off as “omg this is a crime he’s committing a crime”

[storm igloo]

if you want to learn why it's an issue you should read the extensive research done on the psychology of the developing mind

[versed pine]

nana

distort

[lean storm]

When in reality they’ve been friends for god knows how long and the girl developed feelings for the guy, she grew up to be someone she thinks the guy would want and the guy could reciprocate the feelings

[versed pine]

I am asking for your consent for you to distort

[storm igloo]

you distort i dont' wanna distort

[versed pine]

true

I don't want to distort either

[gray mesa]

Swopey there's another age gap relationship in the series but the context is wildly different and i'm way more okay with that one

[versed pine]

but I do wanna manifest my EGO

[gray mesa]

This one Xuan doesn't know

[lean storm]

Like if I meet a girl 10 years older than me and I start to change to her liking am I not also technically being groomed

Isn’t that what grooming is basically

[gray mesa]

The issue i have is that it makes 0 sense narratively, it ruins Agate's character and is extremely annoying hearing all characters being stupid about it

[versed pine]

is it in cold steel or crossbell duology

[gray mesa]

Cold steel

[versed pine]

ok

[gray mesa]

Later on

[versed pine]

I really won't know then

[gray mesa]

Even Nana doesn't have the full context

But he probably already sees it

[storm igloo]

it depends, are you 12?

[gray mesa]

Developing

[versed pine]

it's prob in 3 or 4

[gray mesa]

Yeah

[versed pine]

so that's off limits for me

[lean storm]

No but I’m 24 and the girl is 34

[versed pine]

till I get everything else done

[storm igloo]

then it's not the same situation

[lean storm]

I’m very frail mentally and can easily be swayed

[versed pine]

swopey

as I recall the development of the mind properly ends at age 20 or 22 or something

[storm igloo]

actual spoilers || i actually just played through the tita rescue mission, i'm seeing the brunt of it rn ||

[versed pine]

still not being right in the mind is an entirely different issue after that age point

[gray mesa]

I'm talking about the other relationship

[versed pine]

this is this

that's that

[storm igloo]

o

[lean storm]

Idk I guess I just see it differently

[gray mesa]

Well i guess

[lean storm]

I don’t see it as grooming at all

[gray mesa]

It's a bit different since technically one of the halves ||Died||

X D

[versed pine]

although speaking of age gap differences

I'm very annoyed when

[lean storm]

Girl had an older brother figure, as she grew up she started developing feelings for him

[gray mesa]

NANA ONLY ||But Millium and Jusis||

Was what i was talking about

[storm igloo]

oh

[storm igloo]

||that was a proper sibling style relationship...... the pain ||

[gray mesa]

||Jusis is 21 and Millium was technically 15, but humunculus mature differently and they technically did it together which is why i don't have much of an issue with this||

[versed pine]

man regressed to his teen years then looks at his future wife like he can't date her even tho he's at the same age where he dated her b4
like sure I get it, but at the same time, bro it's your fking wife that u dated since the year you regressed to

[gray mesa]

||Right... Sibling... as i said you don't have full context, but it's more than that||

[storm igloo]

xuan thatw as a bit out of left field

[versed pine]

and idr which manga or w/e it was

ik

my mind works in weird ways

I can't fathom it myself

[storm igloo]

|| i choose to live in ignrance don't ruin this ||

[versed pine]

if it has some tiniest resemblance to the subject, I will suddenly remember it out of no where

[storm igloo]

that's actually the definition of schizophrenia

[gray mesa]

||Please that one is fine, Millium's age is kind of irrelevant since she's not totally human||

||They went to school together and matured at the same time||

[storm igloo]

|| true, it's not weird, i just have a hard time imagining it ||

[gray mesa]

Well once you finish the game and learn a few things, and then play the next game

It'll probably click better

[storm igloo]

halfway through || act 2 ||

by my estimation

[versed pine]

nana, I may be schizo at times, but I refuse to accept that as being schizo

I just have a terrible habit of bouncing between topics

for someone to keep up with my pace of conversation, it gets tiring

for them I mean

[gray mesa]

Anyway Nana finish cold steel 4 for once, Reverie is the best game in the series and you're wasting your time on the worst game of the series

tsk

[twilit tiger]

reverie???

omg??? star rail reference???

??? can hoyo sue ¿¿¿

[versed pine]

Star?

[storm igloo]

I'm working on it

[versed pine]

omg PM reference?!

[storm igloo]

But man this game feels the longest

[gray mesa]

Pretty sure the game was released before HSR

[twilit tiger]

wait jingliu blinks

did she always do that

[gray mesa]

Where do you think they stole all of the ideas from

[twilit tiger]

did they add this

am i mandela effecting myself

[gray mesa]

I don't think it is, CS3 should be longer but

Act 1 of CS4 is slow and sucks so

Sure felt that way

For me too

[storm igloo]

That's probably why

Act 1 felt like an entire game on its own

[dusk bay]

I do not wish to know more of Mushoku lore

[lean storm]

Wdym

Mushoku tensei lore is fucking ass

I hate it

It started good

[dusk bay]

seeing all of the

fucking

[lean storm]

Continued well

And went to complete fucking shit

[dusk bay]

like the loli maid

[lean storm]

I will forever and ever think that mushoku tensei is severely overrated

[dusk bay]

wanting rudeus as sylphy does rudeus

is so fucking weird

cause isn't she

the child of the maid that Rudeus father

forced himself on

its just weird

also japan with their incest obsession again

[lean storm]

Now I’m not sure what u mean that might’ve not been in the manga yet

But all I can say is

Mushoku lore fuckin sucks

And having random out of left field plot twist is not “cinema” writing

[past pier]

you fucking suck

[lean storm]

Haha wow everyone suddenly got teleported absolutely randomly

Oh shit funny ball in sky

[past pier]

mushoku is by far one of the best isekais story wise

[lean storm]

It was good until

Eris randomly going

“I am too weak husband-sama”

[past pier]

it's consistently good

[lean storm]

“I shall leave you for no reason and take ur catgirl gf”

[past pier]

ur just nitpicking now

[dusk bay]

also yammy

[lean storm]

“I must train”

[dusk bay]

idk how I feel about

the loli maid thing

is first

[lean storm]

I’m not nitpicking I genuinely despise this kind of writing

[dusk bay]

then Norn getting pregnant

[lean storm]

It’s so random and makes 0 sense

[dusk bay]

by the

fucking guy

Rujerd or something

and she's like

12 in the anime

[past pier]

keep in mind

[lean storm]

Fucking shield hero felt better to read and that went to shit too

[past pier]

that is not a normal world

ppl get married there at fukken 15

[lean storm]

“Oh no my nakamas are in danger, time to activate my curse shield while raphtalia tells me not to but she actually saves me from the danger of curse shield”

[past pier]

bro is reading too much into it

[lean storm]

Shield hero was more fun to read than mushoku

[past pier]

like eris had her own complicated feelings about it

which makes damn sense considering how prideful she is

or well was

just writing it off as "whatever bullshit author cooked" just spits on the whole thing

[lean storm]

It doesn’t make sense to me that she just randomly decides she’s too weak for her danna sama and that she needs to cast herself out with ghyslaine

When she could’ve instead supported rudeus in becoming stronger

(Also I hate short hair eris its ugly as fuck, THAT i will nitpick)

[past pier]

with the same logic I can go all "boo hoo fukken Ace died who cares"

like you choosing to not immerse yourself into the world building and the lore itself doesn't automatically make the story bad

[dusk bay]

The LN stated that Rujerd knocked Norn up when she was 18-19

So

That's clearly a lie

[lean storm]

I also couldn’t handle the cringe of rudeus and sylph not recognizing each other just because sylph has shades on

Idk

I couldn’t immerse myself in the world anymore past eris leaving

Cuz it just felt so shit to read

It just made no sense

[gentle mauve]

Eh

I feel it made sense in world

[lean storm]

At least Eris’s teacher was cute and seghs af

Not eris

Rudeus

Rudeus teacher was gf material

[dusk bay]

You mean Roxy?

[past pier]

the LN or WN or the side story

[lean storm]

Ye

[dusk bay]

I read on the wiki and it says

LN

[past pier]

they're magical shades made to specifically not recognize the person, it was mentioned from the start

[past pier]

wiki

well that explains it

[lean storm]

either I missed that somehow or the manga didn’t mention that

[past pier]

manga

explains it 2x

the manga is cutting down a lot of shit

[gentle mauve]

Also the norn thing is a alternative timeline not what the anime showing

[past pier]

that for once the anime didn't

[gray mesa]

There's alternate timelines?

[gentle mauve]

Yeah manga skipped a arc to which is wild

Yes

[past pier]

exactly, that's LN plot that's from the whole orsted timeline shit

[gentle mauve]

Yeah there alternative timeline that happen if redueus didn't exist

So the ln shows that

[past pier]

it's probably gonna be mentioned soon

since it's about tine

labyrinth being close and all

[twilit tiger]

i mean hot take but i feel like people honestly do overblow his death

we knew him for all of about 10 minutes

[past pier]

but yes Roxy best waifu

[gentle mauve]

We knew him a bit longer in the manga but it more of how Luffy affected by it

Seeing a character you grew to like just break down hurts

[past pier]

I'm now waiting for the sequel to mushoku

[gentle mauve]

Oh the ones about the child

[gray mesa]

You stfu

[past pier]

yes

[twilit tiger]

[gentle mauve]

I'm hoping the manga gets there

[past pier]

or well after ||rudeus died||

in the big fight against the fuccboi

[gentle mauve]

I might have to start reading the ln at the rate the manga going

[gray mesa]

Ace might've been killed early on but even now 5 years later the other elite operators talk about him, his influence was obviously incredibly high

[past pier]

just read the LN

[twilit tiger]

roger his entire character was 'cool guy that sacrificed himself'

[past pier]

the manga cuts off too much detail

[twilit tiger]

yeah but we havent experienced that for ourselves

[gentle mauve]

Yeah I noticed

[gray mesa]

Do you need too?

[twilit tiger]

kind of yeah

[gray mesa]

Ace was important to the other characters not us

[gentle mauve]

Wonder if there physical copies I can buy

[past pier]

Roger these are fukken manga dents

[dusk bay]

Should be

Mushoku is popular after all

[past pier]

do you expect them to read more than once sentence without having a stroke?

[gentle mauve]

Yeah

[lean storm]

Idk I feel like to me Ace is irrelevant because we didn’t get to bond with him much

[twilit tiger]

then you're agreeing with me, ace isn't important to us the audience so people overblow his death

[gentle mauve]

I'll probably check my local manga store later

[dusk bay]

If it's Barnes and Noble

Yeah prolly they'll have it

[gray mesa]

Just because Ace isn't important to me specifically doesn't mean his death is meaningless and i can't feel sad about it

[past pier]

see, I rest my case

[gentle mauve]

It books a million

[dusk bay]

If not just check aniwalker or amazon

[gray mesa]

It's stupid saying it's overblown when character you hold dear constantly lament the way he died

[gentle mauve]

Barnes and noble like a hour away from me

[gray mesa]

Especially considering the character you play as probably didn't deserve it at the time

Ace died for essentially a warmonger sociopath

[past pier]

the mushoku LN I don't think it's fully translated yet so you'll need to wait for the last ones

[gray mesa]

Nobody knew if Doctor was a good person at the time

[gentle mauve]

Is the translation for it faithful or am I better off looking for fan translations?

[past pier]

it's decent

the fan TLs are the ones you stay away from

[gentle mauve]

[twilit tiger]

im not saying his death is meaningless, like youve said narratively we've seen the impact of it on the characters, but emotionally theres no impact because we dont know this guy

[dusk bay]

That might change soon

Cause all of that

Kengan Ashura debacle

[gray mesa]

But now you do

Slightly more

Through everyone else

[twilit tiger]

well no unless he shows up in the vignette events i never read teehee

[gray mesa]

Bruh

[twilit tiger]

does he?

[past pier]

what debacle

[twilit tiger]

either way people were going nuts for him from the start and i never got it

[dusk bay]

There was a tweet going around about the author of Kengan Ashura or someone

Saying that

He considering not striking down fan translation

[gentle mauve]

[gray mesa]

Because even if you didn't know him you could see he was important and a kind soul

[dusk bay]

cause the actual translation from an official translator team is so fucking dog shit

That he prefers fan translation over the official translation

[past pier]

that can happen yes

[twilit tiger]

again roger thats more to do with the narrative significance than the emotional impact

[past pier]

Roger ur talking to a literal wall here

[lean storm]

I am gonna change the topic

Senko seghs jumpscare

[past pier]

there are outliers where the fansub was superior to official

[gray mesa]

Wanger Ace died for you (Doctor) faced a horrible death (Burned Alive) and even then saved Guard from being burnt alive aswell while facing the biggest threat in the series at that point

If that doesn't make you feel something

I dunno bro

[dusk bay]

It doesn't for me

[past pier]

wasn't in the manga so idk man, can't relate

[twilit tiger]

roger its like if ned stark died in chapter 2

[past pier]

[dusk bay]

NPCs are NPCs

[lean storm]

It’s more that you couldn’t connect with the charactee

Like

[dusk bay]

I usually prefer to kill the NPCs myself but

[lean storm]

Talulah’s loss made me fucked up in many ways

Because we witnessed the bondship building between them

[past pier]

implying you weren't already

[lean storm]

And we felt connected with that bond

Same for frostnova and patriot

[past pier]

but imma go sleep, you have fun talking sense into these manga skrubs

[twilit tiger]

exactly

ace shows up in the story and leaves faster than we can reasonably grow attached to him

its like if kamina died in episode 3

[gray mesa]

They're both different things

Okay you used Anime

So when Eren's mom died

You also felt nothing

[lean storm]

Not really no

[twilit tiger]

uh yeah kinda no

[lean storm]

There was no reason to feel anything

[twilit tiger]

maybe a 'damn shes dead'

[gray mesa]

Okay cool well then there's nothing to discuss i guess

[lean storm]

Roger

I think what you’re getting at is

Me and wanker lack empathy

[gray mesa]

Yeah so it seems

[lean storm]

There’s a difference between losing someone/something you care about and just being empathic for someone’s loss

[twilit tiger]

theres no emotional connection to the character roger, its like that hypothetical where you can push a button for a million dollars but a complete stranger somewhere in the world dies

yeah im pushing that

[gray mesa]

Okay yeah

You do lack empathy

Guess

That's all

Then

[lean storm]

Ye it’s that shrimple

[dusk bay]

None of you lack empathy as much as me

[twilit tiger]

i dont lack empathy i simply have no reason to be empathetic to total strangers

[lean storm]

If a random person dies I’m gonna go “damn that’s fucked up” but it’s not gonna make me feel much

[twilit tiger]

[gentle mauve]

Night

[twilit tiger]

how many people have died in the time we've had this conversation

are you going to mourn for all of them?

[dusk bay]

Roger I don't think you understand the fact that

[gray mesa]

Considering i literally don't know a single one of them at this point in time i can't

[dusk bay]

A lot of people don't have empathy

[lean storm]

Yeah exactly

[dusk bay]

Me being the prime example

[gray mesa]

But at the same time i won't feel good about a tragedy

[lean storm]

Roger remember how in Nikke

Yuni baited everyone to go outside

When ark was under attack

[dusk bay]

I felt nothing when my grandpa passed away

[lean storm]

And a lot of ppl died cuz of it

[gray mesa]

Yeah i fucking hate her because of that

[dusk bay]

Prolly cause I was too young

[lean storm]

To the Ark it was a massive impact

[dusk bay]

But I also felt nothing when my grandma did

[lean storm]

But to me it literally was “damn that’s fucked up”

[gray mesa]

Bruh...

[dusk bay]

And I lived with her for 20 years

[gentle mauve]

Damn

[lean storm]

Also I partly understand why Yuni did the evil shit she did

[dusk bay]

While my family was bawlin their eyes out

I felt nothing inside

[lean storm]

She hated everyone

Because she lost her friend

[gray mesa]

Okay bro there's 0 justification for what she did

She's legit worse than Crow in that arc

[lean storm]

It’s her way of getting revenge

She did it out of spite

Because she despised people

and especially syuen

[gray mesa]

Yeah your girlfriend lost her memories, that doesn't justify you borderline ending life on what remains of humanity

[lean storm]

The reason she hated people is because she basically lost all the time she spent with Mihara

[lean storm]

You lost your most important person in life

[twilit tiger]

roger none of us have said this, we're not cheering for the deaths of strangers but we're also not grieving for them

[lean storm]

The scariest people are those who have nothing else to lose in life

[gray mesa]

Bro that doesn't excuse her for anything, Commander was still good to her

And she also wanted to kill him

[lean storm]

Like if anything I think Yuni was more justifiable in a way than Crow

Crow is just a fucking angsty edgy teenager bitch

Yuni had a motive

And it was revenge for Mihara

[gentle mauve]

Roger you forget that wanker is and dswopey has I could care less what happens just end now attitude

[gray mesa]

Crow wanted to end Nikke racism

Yuni lost her girlfriend

I dunno man

They both suck

But Yuni is worse because she just did the most for no reason

[lean storm]

Ok but you don’t kill the one person who’s actually trying to end nikke racism

“Damn this commander is doing something no other commander did before, he actually treats nikkes like people”

“Hey jackal can u kick me that plate into my guns trajectory so it hits commander? kthx”

Or was it viper who kicked that playe

Plate

Idk still

Yuni’s actions felt a lot more… “motivated”

Also commander was nice to her

But Yuni was mad at how unfair it was that Rapi got to keep her memories

(She didn’t know Rapi couldn’t lose her memories in the first place)

[storm igloo]

jackal would never do anything bad

there's no bad dogs only bad owners

[dusk bay]

Jackal is deaf

Dead

[lean storm]

Like yeah what they both did was stupid

But I partly could understand why Yuni did what she did

[gray mesa]

Yuni knew that there was nothing that could've been done about Mihara
Yuni knew that Rapi underwent the same procedure as Mihara
Yuni knew neither commander nor Syuen could've really prevented any of this because they were forced by the government

Yuni also probably knew Crow was a terrorist

And still decided to kill innocent people, try to kill Syuen and Commander without even understanding the why of Rapi having her memories

Sure she's not meant to be smart

But it's just insanely stupid

[lean storm]

“Fear the man who has nothing to lose” so to say

Because to Yuni she lost the only thing she could

Which is her girlfriend

The one person who could understand her and speak with her

[gray mesa]

Nah Jackal is fine she just got curbstomped by Guillotine

[lean storm]

But crow’s bullshittery to me kinda made no sense

Like

commander was literally known to be THE good guy, the guy to take a bullet for a nikke

haha what if we caused chaos to ark society by killing the one person who’s actually on my side indirectly

It’s so braindented

Kinda sad I’m gonna be missing any new lore now but I just cannot be bothered to play nikke lmao

[gray mesa]

Yeah Crow is stupid as shit

That whole arc was stupid as shit, probably the worst one in the game

[lean storm]

Nah

Modernia is worse

[gray mesa]

What that one was fine

[lean storm]

Idk I hated it

Disliked it so much I erased it out of my memory

Most of it felt so pointless

[gray mesa]

For me the worst ones are definitely crow and that stupid one where Syuen wants to attract nikkes to the arc to make Matis popular

I guess it's just before Crow

[lean storm]

Mmm

The matis popular arc wasn’t so bad imho

[gray mesa]

That shit was also just Braindead because commander decided to agree with a completely insane plan for literally no reason

[lean storm]

Isn’t that the one where Laplace shat her pants because she got tentacle PTSD

[gray mesa]

He could've lost his job, get arrested, get his whole squad killed or memory wiped

But still did it

For

Literally

No reason

Syuen really went "Oh but you like Matis don't you, if you don't do this highly illegal stunt they won't be popular"

And Commander went "Shit she's right"

Excuse me?

Are you braindead

[lean storm]

Istg there was more to it

I mostly maybe dislike not the modernia arc

But modernia’s writing itself

Her lore felt so dumb to me

Especially if I compare it to someone like Dorothy

Dorothy’s writing is fucking amazing

[dusk bay]

I missed Destiny Child writing

They had the balls to kill actual important character

[lean storm]

Modernia vs Dorothy is quite literally

Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb

Coughing baby in a literal sense even

[gray mesa]

Funny because i hate Dorothy

But i assume that's kind of the purpose

[lean storm]

I mean

In Fate I fucking despised Koyanskaya

But I grew to like her over the course of lostbelts

I think that’s good writing

Like

I don’t particularly hate Dorothy

I more uh

Sympathize with her

She was betrayed

Her whole squad was promised that they will come back to Ark once the procedures are done and be praised as goddesses of victory

But they sealed the Ark and betrayed her and her entire squad

So she basically built her own Ark on the surface

[dusk bay]

Idk maybe I'm just spoiled by DC writing early on

A lot of nikke moments where it have impact

I feel nothing

[gray mesa]

Nikke emotional impacts are considerably weak

[lean storm]

Mm

Kinda

I did sympathize a lot with Laplace

When she got hit with PTSD

Or Dorothy’s schizophrenia

[twilit tiger]

... you say this at the same time as saying that ace's wasnt?

[lean storm]

Sir

The only nikke moment impact I need is

https://vxtwitter.com/TopGyaru/status/1740072707293909009

Fuck I love this

[gray mesa]

You're crazy, i dunno how much you know about Nikke but to me

[twilit tiger]

i know nothing about nikke

[dusk bay]

Roger read some parts of DC story. The main character and his 3 supporters literally die

It's like if commander died and the entire counter squad died also

[twilit tiger]

but you saying that it has 'weak emotional impacts' while also saying that the guy we knew for 15 minutes was earthshattering is

[dusk bay]

And is in eternal limbo

[twilit tiger]

[dusk bay]

That hits harder for me than

Dorothy

[gray mesa]

I didn't say it was Earthshattering but it's beautiful how cruel of a death Ace had for how kind he was

It was a great way to set the stage

And tone

For the game

[twilit tiger]

roger i feel like if i respond to that the way i want to you'll just brush me off again

[gray mesa]

I know you'll say it's narratively good but emotionally weak you've said it already

But to me

It's both

I dunno what more you want me to say

[twilit tiger]

ok i guess you do know me

im glad

[gray mesa]

Since we spoke of Dorothy

[lean storm]

Idk I just can’t see it, the emotional impact

[gray mesa]

Pine's death is pretty much the same

[lean storm]

It’s just

Not the same

Also thing about Pinne’s death is that it was relevant to the whole lore as in

[gray mesa]

We don't know anything much about Pine and she dies extremely cruelly

[lean storm]

The lore was built around it

And not have random sidestories of characters going “damn i miss my senpai”

[gray mesa]

She's important to Dorothy because she's what keeps her sane

But to us

She's not important

[lean storm]

Dorothy literally developed schizophrenia because Pinne died

[gray mesa]

Okay what did you know about Pinne

[lean storm]

Like if we had a whole arc about how Rosmontis suddenly went schizo (or whoever cared about Ace idk) and she had Ace help her in times of need

[gray mesa]

She's literally a mass produced model precisely so she's not unique in any way

[lean storm]

Then the emotional impact would be a lot bigger

[gray mesa]

All we know is that she can skin Deer

[lean storm]

Yeah we didn’t know her, but we were shown what impact it had left

[dusk bay]

Yes we know you like meaningless death Roger

[lean storm]

And it was the main point of the half anni

[dusk bay]

Just like Fang

[gray mesa]

You are also shown the Impact of Ace's death

[lean storm]

Not as a main focus

[gray mesa]

And that's good

[lean storm]

It’s all in vignettes and random bits of side stories of characters

Yeah but it’s different

As I said if we had a whole chapter or event built around someone schizo’ing that Ace is still alive

[gray mesa]

I like that more personally

[twilit tiger]

i mean its not all in vignettes

[lean storm]

It would be 50 times different

[gray mesa]

When i literally just told you this in dms it's easy to parrot here

[lean storm]

Pinne comparison can be there, but it’s just not delivered in the same way

[twilit tiger]

blaze and ros bring it up when they show up in main story, and i think he gets mentioned by the elite ops in victoria arc too?

[lean storm]

One is a main focus and the other is just “btw this character misses Ace-senpai”

[gray mesa]

I mean in the grand scheme of things they are the same, Nikke just shows you on the nose the impact it had

When Ace's is more subtle about it

[lean storm]

Yeah Nikke makes us go through the impact

Which is good

We were given a reason to sympathize with dorothy

I don’t really have a reason to feel bad for Ace death besides “damn catgirl gfs sorry for ur losses”

[gray mesa]

Well i don't simpathize with Dorothy and i do with Rosmontis so

[lean storm]

Because we didn’t go thru the same emotional impact that they probably did

[gray mesa]

I'm not sure

What that makes me

[lean storm]

I sympathize with both, but with rosmontis for different reasons

Rosmontis is more just

Well idk her lore that well

But she seems like an outcast

That struggles to blend in with the others

Because she can’t control her powers or some shit

And everyone is scared of her or sth

And Ace was probably the one guy who would not care about it

You know how they could’ve made Ace a lot more emotional impact

If they had at least half a chapter of character development

Showing around Rhodes Island or something

How operations go

And Ace being a cool guy to everyone etc.

THEN we’d feel a strong emotional impact because we lost someone who was dear to us and everyone else

But most importantly us, the reader, made a connection with him and became his friend

Rather than losing someone we didn’t know it was losing a friend

Same reason why I sympathize with dorothy

She got betrayed by the people she protected

[gray mesa]

But that's the thing i wouldn't like that, i enjoy the fact that Doctor isn't Ace's friend

[lean storm]

Getting betrayed sucks so much

And I can fully understand her hatred towards the Ark

[twilit tiger]

we didn't need them to show ace being doctor's friend we just needed them to show him as a person rather than a plot device

[lean storm]

I mean he didn’t have to be doctor’s friend

We just needed to be shown Ace treating Rosmontis equally as others and whatnot

If they showed us what he is and how important he is to rhodes island

The impact would be a lot bigger

[twilit tiger]

honestly if chapter 1 were written today thats probably exactly what we wouldve gotten, like flashbacks of ace's time at RI before his death and it wouldve been so much better

[gray mesa]

You can see that, again it's done subtly. Rosmontis has her own thing, Blaze feels bad too. Even if Scout died too in the same place we know that he was a recluse but Ace made him his friend too. After Ace's death people like Misery and Sharp are also more reclusive, especially Misery where he directly says this. You feel that Ace was the glue to a lot of the Elite operators and why they interacted

[lean storm]

Like if we just randomly killed Patriot and then were shown the impact of his death

It would also be a shitty emotional impact

But because we were introduced to him way before that

[twilit tiger]

all of this is after the fact though roger, its like, trying to retroactively create emotional payoff

[lean storm]

And were shown all of the buildup that lead to the current day

[gray mesa]

I mean once again, i enjoy this

I dunno what to tell you

I enjoy the fact that Ace is just someone in the world but that he was someone special to others

That's how natural relationships are

I'm no one to most people

[twilit tiger]

i mean this is also straying from my initial statement, people were hyping ace's death up back at launch

[lean storm]

Ig I also probably don’t feel much from Ace because I didn’t know most of the impact

Since I only actively read like

Main story and events I liked

But didn’t bother reading each character’s separate lore, vignettes, etc.

If every event was made as well as Near Light, I would be still playing probably

[upper vale]

not the event itself right

[gray mesa]

I mean Break the ice was not long after and was better than NL to me

[upper vale]

the story surely

[lean storm]

Both

The event was fun to play

[upper vale]

[lean storm]

Stages were fun and the gimmick was simple yet challenging at times

[upper vale]

Define challenging

[lean storm]

The enemies were simple

[upper vale]

That isn't civ bs

[lean storm]

Yet hard if unsupervised

[upper vale]

or those stupid ass Dorothy mechs

[lean storm]

And the event lore was definitely my favorite from any event

[gray mesa]

Those mechs are really easy

[lean storm]

Shubs I don’t speak Ling abuse sorry

[gray mesa]

Especially since you don't have to deal with them

[upper vale]

I mean u do

[gray mesa]

The event is about not letting the mechs awaken

[upper vale]

By killing them before hand

[gray mesa]

You only face a few that actually come with the stage