r-i-i-c

[fluid pollen]

It’s not the worst.

You can speedrun robot pots

[silent nova]

This is true btw

[uncut dome]

I need to restock yea

[pale yoke]

definitely not worse than clue 7

[silent nova]

This is a correct statement coming from one of the original ncd e2 calculator guys

[winged hollow]

in these days I need clue 7 so bad

[fluid pollen]

But why does it get better

[pale yoke]

add NotZyf

[uncut dome]

[fluid pollen]

Artificially generating extra 7s.

[silent nova]

If you don't use it its always at 10% since itnever procs its guarantees

[pale yoke]

that's why we all collectively hate that individual NotZyf

we dk who that is but definitely NotZyf

[silent nova]

It tends to 19% as your number of crafts goes to infinity but it's never 19%

At 10k crafts you're at like 18.995% or some shit

[pale yoke]

idk about those odds chief

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

Me irl LOL

[silent nova]

You guys should believe me for all things ncd I got shouted out by Peter video

https://youtu.be/CoJ18PEjSjs?t=6m30s

That's ME

ME, Jiramkde

In the peteryr ncd video

[pale yoke]

reported for self promotion

[arctic prism]

Like I think I get it but cant tell if im getting gaslit or not after that long ass talk with scholar

[winged hollow]

if I start to build exodia from ground how many pull do I need to guarantee CY Ling Dusk and Ros?

[arctic prism]

Too tired for this i need sleep

[silent nova]

Its real did you see the video

I would share the code but last time I remember it was kinda ass lol

[arctic prism]

I remember watching ages ago but forgot all the contents lol

[silent nova]

Its real technically

Like it does increase from 10% to 19% as you use it

Its just that like

By the 20the craft kr something its already at 18.5%

[arctic prism]

Considering our previous discussion about how the real end game is in mats

It's like slowly making sense why he fia ncd

It's just like a

Idk how much you actually gain

[silent nova]

Wait no it's dogshit

[arctic prism]

??????

[silent nova]

I don't. Believe these numbers this must be from a wrong revision

[stoic spoke]

weed in lv1 FAC :roswao:

[fluid pollen]

💀

[silent nova]

This seems more correct

[fluid pollen]

Wow

[stoic spoke]

numbers

[fluid pollen]

Too many. Can’t comprehend.

[stoic spoke]

[rigid plume]

Is this Minecraft?

[silent nova]

After crafting 10 t5s with ncd you can expect an effective 13% ish byproduct rate

[stoic spoke]

arkcraft

[silent nova]

At 100 this goes up to 18.5%

And it slowly goes up to 19% but never equal

So ncd e2 sucks

Worse than +90%

[arctic prism]

At the same time though
Why not just fia arene or stainless or nian even smth at that point
I guess benefit is having an extra theoretical 20% op?

[silent nova]

K fia ncd for NOT t5!!!!

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

Lmao

[fluid pollen]

I just craft stuff with Lessing now

[stoic spoke]

can we have a neural network learn this automatically instead of us modelling functions manually

[fluid pollen]

Lazy

[arctic prism]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Idk why but using ncd is too much of a hassle for me when im literally cursing

Which feels like it should be higher effort

[stoic spoke]

or lower

[silent nova]

O hope that's the right food

File

Imvl dozing off i have finals tomorrow

[arctic prism]

Glgl
Im also head to bed is 4am

[silent nova]

West coaster spotted

[silent nova]

IH this is wrong but o can't find the right file so sucks

[arctic prism]

was thinking about this again and uh

this might sound blasphemous (bc it is) but uh

going by this logic, is this the true advantage 3pp has over 252...???

higher dorm lvs to restore ncd faster

like if we're saying that material requirements vastly outweigh any xp and lmd requirements we have in the long run

technically the most efficient usage of the base is to

generate mats through ncd

what is this cursed knowledge you have imparted onto me

going deeper down that train of thought
this also means that your highest level dorm + best st and aoe dorm workers are your best "production facility" and "workers"

[arctic prism]

jk 3pp is still trash
you could just downgrade one more fac bc you only need a single lv 5 dorm

unless we consider lumen value...
the secret 5pp + dead lancet to maximize lumen strat (?????)

135 new meta

[wind otter]

but Arene is better than NCD at t5 and Exu2 recovers Arene morale faster which makes Exu2 the best worker then

[arctic prism]

is the value of the mats arene generates by crafting t5s > the amount of guaranteed mats ncd pulls basically out of thin air? thats what it would come down to right?

[wind otter]

https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/s3csur/ninecolored_deer_the_new_workshop_meta/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[arctic prism]

in terms of who gets to live in the best dorm + get the best dorm workers/fia procs

i guess im thinking in terms of like

how much sanity value (in mats) per morale arene makes vs ncd

who is the better efficiency "worker" bc that's who you'd want to maximize usage of right

at the same time though i feel like you need to convert way more T4 and below mats than T5 ones so i think the answer is just ncd anyway

[wind otter]

then both, that looks like a tag team

[arctic prism]

like it sounds like it is crazy person talk but it's also lowkey true if the objective is to max lv m9 max mod everything

[arctic prism]

yea but only one gets the best dorm workers, the other will have to live with 2nd best dorm workers was the differentiation I was trying to make lol

[wind otter]

yeah, in that case the one that has more work to do makes sense, one has to finish first

[arctic prism]

oh wait game doesnt let you build more than 3pp???

secret tech ruined

i assumed it would be 5 for all facilities

[wind otter]

you should have guessed, you know too much pp doesn't sell gacha

[arctic prism]

[wind otter]

[arctic prism]

this is driving me insane
or maybe ive already passed that point

the true endgame is to farm 1-7 enough to generate enough ncd food to keep up with your dorm workers
do everything possible to make ncd recover morale as fast as possible then use her up the instant she's full

everything else you do with the base is just extra stuff as long as you maintain some sort of income

the base is too good at producing lmd and exp compared to the material income most players get by playing the game

[wind otter]

your depot full of concentrations

it's all fun and games until Polymerization Preparation joins Bipolar Nanoflake in the bazaar of useless t5s

[arctic prism]

[arctic prism]

unironically has anyone calculated "%prod" of ncd

probably not bc it sounds like a mostly useless stat

not to mention wildly inaccurate due to how much it fluctuates (msv fluctuation based on available stages, comparing msv of mats to lmd or xp, etc) + its dependencies on recharge speed

[pale yoke]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/586588921614303233/1118203518449360896/lv_0_20230603164315.gif

mat's is the ultimate bottleneck line of thought only applies if your goal is to M9 mod 9 everyone

just stahp, wake up

fia 9cd is schizo

one would argue in that case the module data would be the hardest thing you want, and it's actually unobtainable goal

[arctic prism]

lmao thats true

[pale yoke]

welcome back cho

[arctic prism]

lol tyty the anti schizo pills worked

[summer kernel]

mod blocks are catching up i think. The real bottleneck is once again pulls to P6 everyone

[pale yoke]

💳

final boss

[summer kernel]

AO farming is the real final form of base. Like Simon,the real post-game boss in E33

[pale yoke]

i need to go back playing e33, i stopped few days ago to catch up with arknight event & SSS and other game event lol

[summer kernel]

I heard theres new DLC? I it was a great game, didnt overstay its welcome

[pale yoke]

yea realeased during the games award

[summer kernel]

as a non-ncd-haver, why is farming 1-7 better than farming for the T3 mats you need? Are you assuming that there's inf demand for T3+ rock products so they get used too?

[arctic prism]

demand for rocks

and even if you have excess (somehow) you can technically still use it for AO i guess

so in theory none of it gets wasted

[summer kernel]

oh, like youre saying you'll still farm the other mats right? not just get rocks > feed rocks for ncd fuel > let T5 rock products sit in storage like spent nuclear fuel

[summer kernel]

well, you either feed the rocks or you spend the rocks for shards right? it's either or?

[arctic prism]

oh yea im saying you would in theory just farm 1-7 enough then use rest of sanity normally to feed ncd and that should be enough to cover your rock needs too

there wasnt like a significant amount of thought behind it

[summer kernel]

lmao, your fia ncd ramblings inspired me to schizo-ponder what would the AO farmer end game be. I think you end up feeding T3+ to NCD to then getting byproducts on your non-rock/devices T2 products lolol. T1 would be Arene I think.

That's so brutal that copium-ing for a T1/2 rock or device focused WS op like Ray would be a better use of my irl sanity

[arctic prism]

excess as in if you literally have no other uses for rock

[summer kernel]

you'd fia umiri and penance too. seems like a more elegant endgame than your 135 + fia NCD dystopia, Cho

[pale yoke]

here's a personal anecdote, 293 E2, 195 M3 (6star), 200m3 + overall

These are my latest ops

My mats cache

Can't afford to high LV newer ops but sure as hell I can M3 anyone I want

personally still find xp a bigger issue because im not going to m9 every skill, like crazy to m3 generic skill like what for if you never going to ever use it

[arctic prism]

ye my personal anecdote also aligns with that in I don't feel "gated" by mats at all, but I figured that's just due to how I dont really care to m3 or mod stuff unless I'm planning to use it at some point
it was just interesting to think of the point when xp becomes useless and lmd is just used for mats and i guess some for modules

because unless the pacing of new op releases changes that is a real point in time in the future, (barring EoS or quitting )

[pale yoke]

xp equilibrium sound so serene

[pale yoke]

you think is possible?

i don't think so when avemujika giving us 5 next and next limited +2 6star and 5 star

[fluid pollen]

I gots no mats or resources so.

[pale yoke]

then SA2 event 3 6star

i don't think with just base we are keeping up

[pale yoke]

you'll have enough once you played a few more month

trust me i've been playing for months

[arctic prism]

hmmm maybe
that was just anecdotal too bc I felt like we were getting closer but it might just be that there are more people that im ignoring

[pale yoke]

yea that's fair

im personally going to raise all ave

and haruka hoshi2 definitely

so im having a strain on my xp

[arctic prism]

lol yea there do be a lotta new units in the near future

[silent nova]

I'm gated by time-to-craft

[limpid spear]

@arctic prism Base is printing way more money today than yesterday, tysm for the help

[arctic prism]

good to hear, npnp

[fluid pollen]

Time to spend an indiscriminate amount of op farming mats

[pallid isle]

pretty much same

i have okish lmd and exp

but need a few more mats for random crap

i love raising random nonsense

[fluid pollen]

need to get all e2s done

[pallid isle]

i actually have quite a few paradox sims left

so also same

[silent nova]

do i buy dororo for base

its actually not that good

[fluid pollen]

Yep Doro is very marginal

Needs Silence2 to be raised too since Mizuki Highmore doesn’t make sense no more.

[silent nova]

no i have everyone except for doro

and i guess nasti

but im pulling for her

[fluid pollen]

Oh. surely you js buy her.

naught is worth other than base.

[silent nova]

https://tenor.com/qOqoGaYn5tk.gif

wait this team kinda sucks for now without nasti

its only +95%

[fluid pollen]

Yea it’s not good….

[silent nova]

wow this is not gonna be relevant for a hwile

[fluid pollen]

Can duo with Silence2 for 65%

That’s pretty much her current use case

[silent nova]

i guess i just gotta max out nothing and ros

oh thy're exclusive asl

[fluid pollen]

Yea I do love maxing out nothing too

[spare pivot]

[winged hollow]

$2 for furnirture sets wtf is this

[pallid isle]

i did figure out using dorothy on my off rotation is better but thats becuase i only use half of it dorothy + silence alt + any 35% instead

beats trying to use jessica alter and not having a spot for almond

but thats only applying to 2 gold factory set ups

[arctic prism]

I basically havent touched any of mine

I think I did like one or two total

got lazy and coped by calling them "rainy day funds"

[wind otter]

it's freaking theft, but I'll show them when the next time I don't buy it

[inner ocean]

Finally, an RR skin.

I didn't like the gray sterile default office design.

[wind otter]

https://tenor.com/view/humpback-whale-whale-onthe12thfloor-stan-twitter-gif-3446111347746334272

[inner ocean]

ah yes. Paying 2$ makes me a whale already.

I have been very conservative with my top ups for a long while now (mostly just the Monthly Card)

That's why it doesn't feel as heavy for me.

[wind otter]

[torn meteor]

i have a bunch to do but no operator trust so i cant do them anyway

i remember when i tried to do the specter one and lost because no trust stats

[wind otter]

you need to work on your trust issues

[silent nova]

Thank you

You made me realize something really funny

[pallid isle]

i said i have a ton left

well

i actually checked and now am remembering i have 34ish operators left total to e2

[pale yoke]

us f2p must come together and show them who's boss

[iron sedge]

what does tequila's base skill do?

[pale yoke]

make 4 gold trade into 2500 lmd ticket instead of normal 2000

[wind otter]

Yes! Next time!

makes good orders even better

[iron sedge]

can anyone explain what tequila skill does to me?

[pale yoke]

my shamare team make 1 fail 1 and make 1 fail one again

smh

[iron sedge]

wait shit i just repeated myself

ah so you can also get 3 or 4 gold orders

[arctic prism]

lv3 trading posts have a % chance to generate orders that have 2, 3, or 4 gold orders
for the 4 gold orders, he essentially gives you an extra 250/500 lmd (e0/e2) for free

the reason why you generally use him in tandem with someone with a tailoring skill (e.g. bibeak, kafka, etc) is because those ops increase the % chance that a 4 gold order will show up
but these ops and tequila all dont have any tp% which is where shamare comes in

[silent nova]

yeah

[pale yoke]

true

[wind otter]

these past days shamare team working flawlessly but today they are working like ass, may be shamare jealous she didn't get no taiko skin

[arctic prism]

i really like the skill effect on the taiko skin lol

[pale yoke]

what a lil bi-

[wind otter]

[rare galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/do-not-finish-that-sentence-jim-lake-jr-trollhunters-tales-of-arcadia-never-ever-finish-that-sentence-dont-ever-end-that-sentence-gif-3237844697502841026

[arctic prism]

tbf tho is it even shamare's fault

it's your tailor's fault

[jaunty notch]

smh should have done double triple cursed

now you curse 1 miss 4

[fluid pollen]

Continue

Why stop at the precipice of greatness

[pale yoke]

bitter lil cu-

[inner ocean]

what a lil female dog

[wind otter]

omg how can u slander madam kirara and dr. eben like this

[arctic prism]

i mean those 2 do their jobs fine

it's just bibeak kafka diamonte paprika whoever

[wind otter]

watch out, I have a clue 7 and I'm not afraid to use it

[pale yoke]

shamare failed again so im going to full curse for the rest of the day now lol

failed 3 times out of 5

after 10hr ramp

is insane

never trust

[inner ocean]

I give 7s to those who gave me a clue/clues but they don't need anything I have

[pallid isle]

i suppose thats why i end up with over 20 of them weekly

maybe even more

[strange prawn]

is 14k lmd rate good for beginner base?

[pallid isle]

14K average is pretty bad

how early are we talking

[strange prawn]

uhhh can I take a pic here?

[pallid isle]

yeah its fine

[strange prawn]

here's my base

[pallid isle]

ok we can save this

[strange prawn]

disclaimer I am just merely following guide and stuff and I kinda know things working

[pallid isle]

no its VERY good you came here first

for long term production your doing the right thing

[strange prawn]

I see

can I improve it furthermore?

well... beside getting necessary slav- operators for better efficient

[pallid isle]

leave that right side alone DONT upgrade it thats the most important rule. next i would check pin 4 noob tab

theres a good list of things that are cheep to promote to e1 and have a short roi listed in there and a lot of things for starter set ups

[strange prawn]

the problem is I have no idea how to obtain them beside pulling gacha

arknight works very strange for me

like lava alter?

I guess it's from gacha

[pallid isle]

some operators you can get from stories

lava alter is one of them from "who is real"

some you can get from recruitment

which also depends on tags

like purestream is to this day one of the best workers and you can get her in recruitment with healing + support tag

[strange prawn]

I see

1 question

is it really necessary for beginner to get those?

like I'm having shortage on lmd and stuff

I doubt if spending sanity on lmd stage is the right choice

[pallid isle]

generally what we recommend is usually cheeper operators or elite level 1

this + everything listed in noob tab generally

[strange prawn]

wow

wait how can I view it?

try to find the list but there're nothing like that on the noob tab

[pallid isle]

idt this specific image is in the sheet

you can click on it to view it

[pallid isle]

from here I would first focus on upgrading factories and trading post then power plants last keep dorms all level 1 as well that you build.

[strange prawn]

to level 3?

[pallid isle]

yeah eventually you will max out the left side

just take it slow as you go and slowly work on those operators listed they have good return on investment times so don't worry to much about expense. its all about gains over time

[strange prawn]

what's the expected lmd production for a completed base?

and exp

overall

[pallid isle]

i sadly don't have a lot of early game production reports to give estimates perhaps someone else here would have those. generally also though depends on what you have and pull. Its going to vary a bit

[strange prawn]

what about you?

I'm curious

[summer kernel]

55-60k LMD and 25-30k exp is a pretty good 252 base. usually a bit less gold bars than LMD but external sources make up the deficit

[pallid isle]

for me I have every operator in the game and all base ops at required e2 so my reports are quite high compared to most. i run 2 gold factories 3 exp and am averaging around 69-74K lmd 50K exp and 85 bars

[strange prawn]

damn

what do you spend most of your sanity in ?

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-virtuosa-arturia-headsmash-gif-17362817341933048710

[pallid isle]

[fluid pollen]

He’s also not even fully bricked

Office 1 right

[pallid isle]

yes

his base can be saved

[pallid isle]

yeah see here

[stoic spoke]

1323 propaganda

[strange prawn]

wdym

[pallid isle]

right side is not able to be downgraded and its also bad to do so

[fluid pollen]

Nope I’m a 1331 propagandist.

[strange prawn]

you can't downgrade it?

what

[stoic spoke]

but uh collecting full exodia is a long way for now, so ig 2313 is your way to go

[strange prawn]

I was considered upgrading office for more recruitment slot but I was too broke to do so

🙏

[pallid isle]

office is the worst thing to upgrade

[strange prawn]

dang

[stoic spoke]

remember, free texas is bait, don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise

use this sacred knowledge as you please

[strange prawn]

okay

what about reception room?

I've heard it's quite important

[fluid pollen]

Don’t upgrade that either

[pallid isle]

yeah dont upgrade it

[fluid pollen]

[strange prawn]

then I'll just focus on production and leave everything else

[summer kernel]

is 2313 considered soft bricking these days? RR levels dont even add meaningful friend slots and they removed the limitations in the new CN support system. 1311 can run max left with 3 dorms. Crazy shit

[strange prawn]

getting operators is another story...

[fluid pollen]

Well I think it’s okay.

Better than most

[pallid isle]

2313 is ideal

well

i mean 1313 is best but

actually idk where that power goes off the top of my head

[summer kernel]

1313 is probably better even if you dont max left for a lvl 3 dorm I think?

[fluid pollen]

1313 gets some dorm levels.

[stoic spoke]

max-1 slot left + 1323 right for 10% mulberry 252 exodia

[fluid pollen]

But honestly the most fun endgame base probs has to be 1333?

[pallid isle]

yeah ig that makes sense

i have 3313 and really wish it was 2313 so i could upgrade that factory slot

but for new person here just aim for max left for right now

your so early in

that trying to get things to mastery level 3 is a bit much

[summer kernel]

im a big -HR% hater. Im pretty sure HR% is undervalued. you mulberry users are deluded

[fluid pollen]

I’m a big HR hater

Refreshes seem to just not work

Am probs the worst of the lot too.

Don’t run Sail and perma 20%.

[stoic spoke]

top operator doesn't exist

[pallid isle]

actually ig this image isnt the ideal anymore either

you leave rr level 1

[fluid pollen]

Pretty much yea

[stoic spoke]

so i cope with 10% productivity

[pallid isle]

then later on in the game when your ready downgrade factory for training room

[fluid pollen]

4* refresh doesn’t exist.

So it’s perma Mul Whis

[fluid pollen]

1311

[pallid isle]

1311 is what i am telling them to do for right now

[stoic spoke]

225 5555 1311

[pallid isle]

i would not even bother with masteries right now at all

[fluid pollen]

Imagine if we took the current base knowledge back in time

[summer kernel]

we are sworn enemies

[fluid pollen]

351 > 252 ML 1311 om.

[stoic spoke]

supply extra power to rhodes island

[fluid pollen]

And camp there for years on end.

🥹

[stoic spoke]

I did 2313 in 2020 end

it was unknown back then

friend slots were valued more

[fluid pollen]

Tbf yea you cap out at like 15 at lvl 1 back then right

Then 25 at lvl 2?

[stoic spoke]

35

[fluid pollen]

Wow RR3 is worthless

[stoic spoke]

or was it 25

[pallid isle]

rr3 is pretty bad

[summer kernel]

I think it was +10, +15?

[stoic spoke]

currently its 85

[fluid pollen]

Buh

[stoic spoke]

was it increased by 60 or 50?

[fluid pollen]

It was increased by 50.

[stoic spoke]

then 35

[pallid isle]

i miscalcuated stuff way back and thought i could do it and have power

that and also wanting FREE SCAM

FREE TEXAS

[fluid pollen]

free brick

[pallid isle]

my pinboard missions though

[stoic spoke]

old

[summer kernel]

In the real endgame, when all ops are E2max, lvl3RR is meta

[pallid isle]

i mean i suppose so

[fluid pollen]

Despairge

[pallid isle]

i will do 243 when i max every operator

[summer kernel]

no way, you got less friend increase from 2 > 3 than 1 > 2?!? scam game

[stoic spoke]

still unfilled

[fluid pollen]

153 is optimal

Always has been

[pallid isle]

i mean true

[stoic spoke]

[fluid pollen]

Maxing every operator is still really far tho

🥹

[stoic spoke]

diminishing returns

[pallid isle]

its a few years off lmao

yeah its far

[stoic spoke]

[valid storm]

No, you need at least 2 trading posts - 1 for and 1 for

[pallid isle]

e2 every operator early into next year though

[fluid pollen]

Just toss irl money for pulls

[stoic spoke]

noo help said orumdum farming is bad

[valid storm]

Why not do both

[pallid isle]

i am google play status diamond due to this game

[fluid pollen]

Well if you do have everything maxed, ig there’s nth wrong

[valid storm]

#help doesn't know a thing about our farming

[stoic spoke]

we farmers

[fluid pollen]

Peasants actually

Real rich men are maxed out

With dead bases

[stoic spoke]

welcome to the rice r-i-i-c fields

makes sense why its called riic

[fluid pollen]

Close enough

Everyone has their dead Shu license right

[stoic spoke]

dead shu?

[summer kernel]

I think 153, 252, and 342 are the only optimal setups depending on your goals (and wallet), right?

[fluid pollen]

Yea so you can shove Kaze + dead Shu in RR when you need to train.

[stoic spoke]

I just put her in TR

[summer kernel]

i dont think thats the case for masteries though. M3 usually has a bigger powerspike than M2. power per cost, it is though

[fluid pollen]

Probably.

[stoic spoke]

not using exodia helps with dorm space

[fluid pollen]

Yea my issue is that I only use 2 Sui members at a time.

[pallid isle]

if everything is maxed i think 243 is valid for 1 tp for just enough money to fund orundum or is it not enough money

then again like

[pallid isle]

you could probably do something still different

[fluid pollen]

So TR has Yu Shu, WS has Nian, and when training with Yu I need some place to put Shu.

cho’s recommendation.

[summer kernel]

cant wait to shill 333 when you guys run out of ops to max level in a decade.

[stoic spoke]

where does upcoming sui go

[fluid pollen]

14j already shills 333.

33321 I mean

[fluid pollen]

If he’s anything better than Shu

[pallid isle]

hmmmmm

[fluid pollen]

She’s getting kicked

[summer kernel]

i was told 342 was better for big AO farmers. the math seemed to check out

[pallid isle]

yeah i mean

i agree with that for non maxed everything

i was thinking about meme scenario though

maxed out everything base pure orundum

[fluid pollen]

even RR skill would be pog

[pallid isle]

then again you ig still just make more money

[stoic spoke]

342 for the farmers farming more than just rice

[fluid pollen]

They’re disintegrating rocks too

[pallid isle]

its just rocks here theres no rice

theres no anything in fact

just rocks

[summer kernel]

pure meme AO? as in like you buy sanity with OP to farm more rocks to make AO lol? I think that would be 432, no?

[pallid isle]

ah even better

but no i mean

maxed out everything

all operators are e2 maxed

so its just something like 2 gold 1 tp for lmd 1 tp for orundumb 2 factory for orundumb but unsure

idt you can farm rocks fast enough to support 2 orundumb tps fairly sure

[summer kernel]

nope, unless you OP to sanity

[summer kernel]

with cursing + Pozy, i can see this. You'd have to do some wild swings from 4 gold to 4 AO probably? (dont check the math)

[pallid isle]

idk how helpful 2 orundum is

for factories

but yeah pretty much all thats left is gold lmd and rocks gate

[summer kernel]

how many OP can you spend per day on sanity?

[pallid isle]

i mean i wasn't actually gonna look for set up for that lol

just for using all sanity for rocks

[summer kernel]

oh, if you are just Monthly, and spend everything on 1-7, 1 AO fac should be enough

[pallid isle]

yeah so it doesnt really help

either set up is optimal most likely

ig it depends on how fast your burning gold?

1 AO tp 1 AO factory and then 1-2 other tp for lmd and 3-4 factory for gold

[summer kernel]

which two setups are you comparing? 342 and ?

[pallid isle]

252 ig

but

your never gonna burn all that gold so

342 is better

[summer kernel]

if you dont need XP, i think you move on to the Cho delulu scenario where you use the base to start maximizing materials after you make your daily AO so really inefficient stuff like 5555 dorms to get more friend credit / maximize MR for WS users / HR% for gold and green certs for mats lol

its some wild shit

[pallid isle]

yeah thats what i am thinking about

yeah your not burning even the lmd

your not burning up enough of either

wait does level 5 dorms help for credits?

i forgor

[summer kernel]

its pretty easy to do the math for how much EXP/LMD you need once you maxed the current roster. Its just the release costs of new mods and ops. Its probably under 20k daily for each?

[summer kernel]

yeah, 243 lost again when they gave the new RR board lol

[stoic spoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586588921614303233/1103717351444201612/caption-1.gif

[pallid isle]

not sure i understand why thats a problem?

or how it hurts 243 if we both have it

idk how much dorms help friend credits

[summer kernel]

im too lazy to plug this into krooster to see how much LMD/EXP the next 6mo of CN costs are and see what the avg monthly need is

[stoic spoke]

clearing shop is easier for non max dormers now

[pallid isle]

?

[stoic spoke]

300 extra shop currency weekly

[pallid isle]

idk why i am not understanding but i am not

[stoic spoke]

243 users argued 252 with level 1 dorms wasn't able to clear shop

hence 243 better

so hg buffed 252 yet again

by providing 300 more weekly credits

[pallid isle]

oh i see you can sometimes clear shop

[stoic spoke]

[pallid isle]

yeah this makes the most sense actuallly

because the amount of lmd and gold needed for orundum isnt actually as high as i was thinking

i am overestimating it like a lot of people do

hence how 342 does produce production

and doesnt stop progress entirely

[stoic spoke]

but why am I trying to build tomimi s1m3

https://tenor.com/view/paypal-30000-arknights-arknights-end-arknight-endfield-gif-8615212440352069827

[pallid isle]

10000 dollars for all the tomimi s1m3 skills in the world

lets gooooooooooo

[summer kernel]

theyre not wrong: you stop progress bc you dumped all your sanity on rocks

[pallid isle]

well not entirely though

you have some left over

but yeah

[summer kernel]

i feel like the minute you start skipping events for 1-7 is when theres no turning back That's what separates the AO boys from the men

[pallid isle]

well

you dont skip right

you just do bare minimum to clear shop

then do 1-7

because this is now mat optimizing

[summer kernel]

yeah, not a man

real™ AO farmers only 1-7

[pallid isle]

so true

i am e2 maxed every operator

but am no longer able to now

because all i do is 1-7

and have 0 mats for anything else

[stoic spoke]

so they lack mats?

how do they farm mats

[pallid isle]

i mean eventually your gonna need some mats

but thats where the funny

max dorms for certs

hr for refreshes

that is actually real in this scenario

[stoic spoke]

i guess it does make sense to skip mats that's excess

but uh

feels weird man

[pallid isle]

i suppose you dont always know what is excess

we have hindsight though so that point is partically moot

[stoic spoke]

skip all mats until they're there in event perma shop

ao farmers who skip events, avoid sudden reduction in sanity value of stockpiled mats that got added to perma shop

[pallid isle]

i kinda do see the point of how even mats drop off a lot

once i finish all e2's

the mat value for me drops a lot becuase there are skills i will never m3

[arctic prism]

🤝 same

[fluid pollen]

Is diamond the highest

My country doesn’t have Google play

[arctic prism]

yea lol

[pallid isle]

yes lmao

its stupidly expensive

[arctic prism]

I never checked how much in total I spent but I cope by telling myself that I only buy stuff when point multiplier is high

diamond is a pretty recent addition tho iirc
it used to only go up to plat before

i wanna say the max used to be gold before that too but it's been too long so i dont remember

[fluid pollen]

[queen flicker]

now that i understand it, the rotation is actually easy and makes sense. ty momos

formation 2 is two shifts

[frank cipher]

it's already burnt who let him cook? Nice

[orchid bane]

I myself don't want to set formation 3 there

That can mess up with aroma ramp by misclick

[fluid pollen]

Lowkey I just wanna say skill issue

[orchid bane]

Idk

The way this game choose the formation is kinda weird

Sometime

[queen flicker]

i'll be careful

[queen flicker]

[west tapir]

Some might say this 2 factory - 2 trading post (stage 3+3 and 3+2) is abysmal in terms of Gold-LMD ratio.
The goldbars keep on piling up each day

[summer kernel]

You're getting like one TP worth of LMD but the factories here seem reasonable for a 252 (3XP 2Gold). What is happening there? Are you running 153?

[orchid bane]

I think you don't have Proviso yet, maybe just keep piling gold is good idea for now

[summer kernel]

That's still less than running the base line 97% in each TP. I guess this makes sense if it's just the noob operators so you rotate in some 25% 😢

[stoic spoke]

abysmal ❌
defective ✅

[pale yoke]

when are they implementing the friend pin thing?

[wind otter]

With Yostar at the helm? Who knows man, who knows
||should come with Ato||

[pale yoke]

we still didn't get the pull history yet JP already got it

[wind otter]

lovely

[pale yoke]

you too

[wind otter]

[pale yoke]

[pallid isle]

[arctic prism]

[strange prawn]

omg I'm so broke 😭

my base barely make any money

should I put 3 production on gold to boost more lmd?

[silent nova]

are you bottlenecked by gold

[strange prawn]

what does it mean

[astral tiger]

2 reasons for lmd to be low:

• you're out of gold
• you aren't getting enough orders to use up the gold

which one is it

[strange prawn]

order

[astral tiger]

then increasing gold production won't help your case

[strange prawn]

my td is t2 btw

[astral tiger]

your proviso tp is lvl 2?

[strange prawn]

my trading post is level 2 yes

both 2

[astral tiger]

keep one at 3

[silent nova]

do you produce enough gold to always trade all your orders in your tp

[strange prawn]

I'm using 252 model

[astral tiger]

only your proviso tp should be lvl 2

are you spending your drones in the proviso tp?

[strange prawn]

what's proviso tp?

[astral tiger]

do you have a unit called proviso

supporter

[strange prawn]

let me check

[astral tiger]

[strange prawn]

uhhh no

I'm new so

[astral tiger]

I see

[strange prawn]

you know I can't have every base operators

[astral tiger]

then both your tps should be lvl 3

[strange prawn]

my base btw

I just upgrade power plant for more energy

converting to tier 3 boxes take tons of lmd

😔

[astral tiger]

well in this case it's just time gated stuff, keep progressing and upgrading base

[strange prawn]

I think the best lmd income for beginner is lmd stages

[hybrid turtle]

can you deconstruct your max level rooms in the base yet

tyy

[torn meteor]

left side yes right side no

[winged hollow]

Here is my cursed AO tp rotation 40+40+any with +4 order so I can 12h without check without cap

The resurt is 780 orundum/day

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/virtuosa-arknights-eyes-arturia-giallo-gif-18229549030890011132

[frank cipher]

who give +4? 80% Ao prob wouldn't need cap

tex/lap/chillchuk : 95% +5cap 12h+ overcap

[iron sedge]

how does overwork work in the workshop?

[valid storm]

no byproduct basically

[iron sedge]

How do ops get overworked?

[winged hollow]

when you craft it cost some numbers and generate byproduct and if you use all of this bar and still use it it get overworked

[orchid bane]

I think they still have 10% base, no OP is 0%

For every building in base, if there are OP there, it still does something more than no OP

[valid storm]

Zero morale is the same as no OP

[orchid bane]

[orchid bane]

Guess I am wrong

The second one is running I believe

[valid storm]

Yes

and this is for the workshop:

[orchid bane]

Yea, that one is 0%

[valid storm]

if your ops are dead, you gain 0 production

[orchid bane]

Is CC got whole base MD if the OP die ?

[valid storm]

it's possible since the game counts dead ops as empty space

[orchid bane]

Yes then

[winged hollow]

why lancet work lol

they obviously ignored that big "bug"

[pale yoke]

Because instead of lancet giving you productivity, eun do a check if lancet is in powerplant, if yes Eun give you +2 power plant count, weedy then turn it into productivity

[orchid bane]

We are talking about the dead one

Greyy 2 check if there are alive robot, +1 if no

[wind otter]

some days when I have a proper breakfast I can downgrade right side

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-アークナイツ-明日方舟-amiya-rosmontis-gif-21262442

[wind otter]

[pale yoke]

so it was your fault?

[wind otter]

vault no fault

[spark sapphire]

How many default recruitment slots are there?

(context) base skills that say "does not count default slots" for the Recruitment slots (ex. Mr. Nothing, Windscoot base skills)

[silent nova]

2

[rough basin]

Is it worth it to raise exu to e2 just for TP?

[orchid bane]

There are almost no worth op to raise

Exu lemu 80% TP

You might not use her in the future

[silent nova]

probably not

[dapper vortex]

is there a Google doc/pdf or something for gladiia cc

[pale yoke]

pin 4

[dapper vortex]

is spec alter not supposed to get gladiias productivity buff?

[silent nova]

they're WIMPS! just a few more ah and base is broken

[torn meteor]

alters dont have a faction in base they are just alters

this is usually not relevant but it hurts the viability of specter alt, exu alt, and silence alt in particular

[orchid bane]

Leizi2 module quest, the rewards looks so good,

[bright root]

Do you want to upgrade dorms in 252 setups

[rigid plume]

No, you don't.

[vital atlas]

got my 5 Lv3 FACs and Lv3 & 2 TP, how do you guys set to balance LMD and XP? 2 FACs for Gold Bars and 3 for XP?

[vital atlas]

just left with Training Room to Lv3, CC to Lv5 and 4th Dorm according to the imgur

[little saffron]

Hello @valid storm Will I ever say I've had enough of this?

...guess I'm just cursed at this point

[queen flicker]

enough gold facs to maintain tps

so it depends on your tp. maybe 2 gold is enough, if not go 3

[queen flicker]

or even 4 if you are doing pozy tuye things

[fleet wolf]

fiad the wrong op

[high gull]

Is there a decent way to have 2 24/36 hour shifts set up for 243? I am extraordinarily lazy

[wind otter]

I bet you didn't even get loxic kohl

[orchid bane]

I got something better

[wind otter]

[frank cipher]

too lazy to collect or too rotate base? set preset and click whenever morale low.

[high gull]

to rotate lol. I see all these 12 hour shift things and my ass is not going to remember to do that when I get up

also looking at the spreadsheet with all the optimal combos with worldly plight and stuff is making my head spin I just want to set a team for the day and forget it

[frank cipher]

special bit complicated prob involve cc, could be learn, if not just set 2 best team in every preset

[silent nova]

if you can collect every 12 hours you can just look at the base sheet for your highest % goons and set them up and never thinkg about rotations outside of just pressing the rotate button ever agai n and that'd get you a decent bit

[high gull]

I honestly think it's mainly the CC that messes with me; should 1 day be suiblings in the CC with WP/PI ops in the base, and the other be some concoction with Młynar?

[silent nova]

if you wanna b elazy you can just run r6s if you have them or smileys

[orchid bane]

24hr you have to look for every cap OP you have

Best team for Fac is vermeil and bubble team

For TP is Gnosis team, not sure but I think Shamere team can last 24hr, maybe

Other than those team, you should find every Cap op you have and rotate them

[limpid spear]

whats the single best base you could have in the game

Theres gotta be a best base setup thats the most efficient over the longest period of time

[jaunty notch]

252 max left

lol

[orchid bane]

Your screenshot doesn't prove anything

The timer for TP only count for Op morale run out

Unlike Fac

What Idk is if we leave Shamere team alone for 24hr, will they get cap

Oh wait, simple math. 2h 17 min per best order

So even in best case scenario , they only work for 22hr 50 min

Not gonna last 24hr then

Bubble skin. Just when we absolutely need it the most

[wind otter]

that picture proves a lot of things, it proves that shamare can last more than 24 hrs and that red just did an oopsie

[fluid pollen]

I mean it’s straight up 36.9

or you guys mean till cap?

Shit’s slow

[silent nova]

they mean until cap

they literally do the math there

[orchid bane]

[orchid bane]

Ofc I mean till cap

Only Factory show it

Cap is even worse than out of morale since your building stop working completely

[fluid pollen]

well then everything’s capping by that time then.

No need to calc anything

Just eat the loss

[orchid bane]

Um no ?

There are Gnosis team ?

There are some other cap members

[frank cipher]

22h 50h pretty good before cap, only lose 5% make shamteq prod 134% par with gnosis team.

[orchid bane]

22h50 is best case

You are at the start of that 4 gold order and assume all the order will be 4 gold

[silent nova]

howd you calc this

[frank cipher]

cap at 20 probably

[orchid bane]

2hr 17 min per 97% Shamere team 4 gold order

[silent nova]

i mean the "only lose 5%"

[frank cipher]

actually that's average on shamateq tp

it's 4,5,6% lose in shama 24h

25,500 average lmd

almost 1k hour

losing 1-2k from cap make less 5% lose

[silent nova]

howd you get these numbers

[orchid bane]

Still not recommend Shamere team for 24hr login

You are losing 30min to 1 hr every fail order

5hr ramp up tho

[orchid bane]

1hr10min/24hr is around 5%

[frank cipher]

it's average mean already count every fail order it's still 5%, literally best team for 24h

you can run another with 130% but low order hit more frequently than high order

[orchid bane]

[orchid bane]

Gnosis Jaye SA + proviso surely better tho

[frank cipher]

miss that combo but if count gold prod probably close enough

[orchid bane]

[pale yoke]

[winged hollow]

best team should be pozy+proviso

[orchid bane]

the topic we are on here is 24hr login

[winged hollow]

24h? I let it cap and collect 20k lmd everyday

[orchid bane]

That is where you should ask yourself, would changing 1 OP into cap OP make your daily income better

There are good change, since cap mean stop working completely

[winged hollow]

i'm eating good

[orchid bane]

Am eating bad

There are 2 important farming event up ahead

I need to stack up my rock

Now

[winged hollow]

when the number go 100k I will stop AO and go full lmd

[karmic flower]

With 252, what is the optimal production setup? 3 favorites for gold and 2 for XP?

[fleet wolf]

2exp/gold and 1 flex

[strange prawn]

which factory should I level? gold or exp?

[arctic prism]

depends on what workers you have and whether you're making too much/not enough gold

e.g. if you have workers that really want to be in lv3 factories for combos (e.g. bryophyta for gold, vermeil combo which is usually used for xp) you'd want to give whatever resource they are tied to a lv3 factory

endgame it usually ends up looking like 1 lv3 xp and 1 lv3 gold (for max right setups), although I'm sure there are some people who run different ones

[queen flicker]

realistically what big upgrades can I get from this point? sui siblings is out of question, im missing everyone and i'm f2p. abyssal hunters is achivable but i don't like 6hr rotations. missing every pinus too and now most of them are in kernel anyway. so i think its automation (only missing weedy) and pozy tuye kirara team. i think pozy team would be a really big tp improvement. can do proviso pozy tuye in one tp1 and shamare tequila kirara in tp2. aside from that i'll try to get hoshi alter soon and finally replace pudding. bryophyta coming soon too. what do you think?

[arctic prism]

I generally wouldnt recommend pozy team being your main tp team, due to the 4 gold factory requirement to reach their maximum potential
At 2/3 gold factories you're looking at 105%/110% from pozy + tuye, compared to the 95% you're getting from glaslow

after factoring in proviso/tequila buffs, this ends up netting you roughly:
+15%/23% tp in tp1 (depending on 2 or 3 gold fac)
-12% tp in tp2, -13% gold prod in tp2 (due to replacing primary tailor with kirara)

whether this is a trade off you consider worth taking is up to you but in a general case I would say it's not

you also have to remember that using this will eat up a decent amount of space in your dorms as well, unless you plan on throwing them in workshop/training room and leaving them in there

[queen flicker]

good points. with only 3 dorms space is tight

[arctic prism]

to answer your question about immediate upgrades, I'd be looking for bryophyta to throw into fac 1, then ideally picking up conviction at some point for an extra 35% exp worker

mlynar can also be considered a pretty good (albeit harder to notice) upgrade to your control center, since it'll help your best teams work longer, helps that he's great for gameplay as well

in terms of big upgrades you're probably right in looking toward weedy, with the caveat that you also ideally want to get snegurochka whenever she releases. Should be pretty easy to get, since she's a 4*. Ideally you'd also want to pick up a eunectes too but it's not as important (if you have snegurochka), especially considering you'd need to e2 but probably wont use her outside of base

[queen flicker]

yeah i have eunectes already. i'll probably e2 og exu soon as a sub for glasgow

[arctic prism]

btw for the using shamare team in 24hr rot argument, it's kind of complicated due to the existence of ramp
The way you would need to calculate this is by separating out the calculation into pre and post 5hr.
The way you get this is kind of complicated but essentially what you'd need to do is calculate the number of combinations of generated orders that result in 3 orders generated before 5 hrs, 4 orders generated before 5 hrs, and 5 before 5 hrs, then calculate the probability of getting each of those outcomes. Then you use the remaining slots (out of the 10 order slots you have possible) to get how many actually get affected by tailoring

e.g. if your first 3 orders are 4 gold, 4 gold, 2 gold, this will end up taking 348 minutes, making the 4th order affected by ramp. on the other hand, if you rolled 2 gold orders 4 times in a row for your first 4 orders, you would need to wait until the 6th order to have the ramped order generation rates

Long story short, assuming I did the math correctly you end up with final order generation rates of (with 10 cap):
2 gold - 10.68%
3 gold - 25.14%
4 gold - 64.18%
this gives you an average of 20883.85 lmd/day, + 6.418 gold bars/day generated through tequila

someone else can calc whether a diff team beats this, that calculation should be super straightforward

Actually one minor correction, the 1st order likely will have ramp already applied to it (assuming you collect the orders before rotating).
This brings the total to:
2 gold - 9.18%
3 gold - 21.14%
4 gold - 69.68%
bringing it up to an average of 21508.85 lmd + 6.968 gold bars per day

[arctic prism]

Interestingly, removing amiya from your cc actually IMPROVES your daily lmd in this case because it makes less orders be generated before ramp finishes
21838.5 lmd + 7.259 gold without +7% from cc

[orchid bane]

[orchid bane]

Hey, how about using cap OP (Stewart Myrtle iirc) instead of bibeak ?

[arctic prism]

this one is actually way more complicated to calc bc now we arent guaranteed to be limited to exactly 10 orders and instead are time limited

I don't wanna bother thinking about that one so I just threw it at chatgpt
Assuming it understood everything I was saying and ran the calculations properly, it's telling me (using amiya this time since it should be better once cap is removed from equation)

Order Count Percentage
2 gold 2.0475 15.85%
3 gold 4.3137 33.38%
4 gold 6.5599 50.77%

Which brings us to a total of:
24917.8 lmd + 6.5599 gold

even this is just a simplified version of that calc- the actual calc is even more complicated than this because we now also have to consider how much time is left over in the current order from the previous day and that's smth i dont wanna think about

[fluid pollen]

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-note-gif-2226882417685008872

[arctic prism]

wait

i messed up all the calcs

did 20% for 2gold and 30% for 4 gold pre ramp

im not doing it again

[frank cipher]

well those number i take from Optima in-depth sheet, if it's say that's a day average I take those regardless count on ramp or not( probably count)

[fluid pollen]

ff’d

[arctic prism]

can you link the sheet
im fairly certain you're interpreting them incorrectly or there's something else wrong there

because those numbers make no sense in context

even if i used the correct %s it won't make that drastic of a change in the results, + using the correct values would make the avg decrease, rather than increase

to explain how ridiculous the numbers are, even if you hit 4 gold orders every single time out of the 10 cap, your absolute maximum is 25000 lmd

with a total of 23 hrs of working time

no complex math required here, just 2500 x 10

[frank cipher]

it's in tp section

[arctic prism]

tp section of which sheet

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

and I also have the same question as jira, where'd the 4, 5, 6% thing come from
those just came out of nowhere

also for reference gnosis jaye sa swirealt + amiya is 24534.5 lmd/day

shamare team with pre-ramped, 100% ramp uptime +amiya in 24 hours makes 25479.45205 lmd, if you don't let tp reach cap
this is probably where your 25500 lmd came from

[orchid bane]

Iirc 20% for 4 gold, 30% for 2 gold

[arctic prism]

yeah, hence my "I did all my calcs wrong" statement lol

[frank cipher]

i calc overcap 1h loss less than 5% between 4-5%, just 456 in case wrong

if collect when overcap, ramp only apply 3h as next order likely to high order

[orchid bane]

Look at how a simple question hurt our brains

[fluid pollen]

sometimes simple questions have simple solutions.

You guys just over engineered.

[arctic prism]

see but the issue with this calculation is that it completely disregards ramp, which has a pretty massive effect esp since you hit cap
24 hr shift implies only logging in to base once a day

if we're saying they can collect over cap, the correct answer is just to pump as many high%s in as possible ignoring cap

[arctic prism]

yeah but what happens when you need to replace your ramp worker

in 24 hr rot you're going to replace them each rotation

= all your ramp is completely gone

ramp will only apply on the first order after collecting before rotating ops

[arctic prism]

agreed

[arctic prism]

also this calculation straight up just doesnt work this way; way too big of an oversimplification

[arctic prism]

in reality as you can see here
you lose way more than just 5% if you leave it to cap
mind you these numbers are also inflated higher than they're supposed to be- the real numbers are even lower than this

[jaunty notch]

Me when I'm in an overthinking and jobless competition and my opponent is an RIIC member

[orchid bane]

So I still dunno in 24hr I should use myrtle or Bibeak in sham team

[arctic prism]

if you're not planning to log in

myrtle no question

[orchid bane]

[pale yoke]

So true. 100% I totally agree with noods here

[frank cipher]

yes tho it's 3h ramp instead of 5h ramp , it's matter when
ramp start
well already got have 24h average formulated,
25,500÷24h : 1062
25,500÷100% : 255
1% : 255
1062 ÷255 : 4.1%
wouldn't go further than elementary meth

[arctic prism]

I already accounted for the first order keeping ramp in my calculations

and your 24 hour average is only accurate IF and ONLY IF the tailoring is already ramped up AND the player logs in to collect between rotations

neither of which are true in our scenario

stop making generalizations that make it seem like what you're saying is better than what it really is

[arctic prism]

with this you're also claiming that shamare team is working 23 hours out of the 24

which is the literal BEST case scenario assuming you allow cap

in other words you have to hit 4 gold orders 10 out of 10 times

which even if we use post ramp numbers, will only happen 19.7% of the time

none of this math checks out

not only are we completely ignoring ramp up time, we're also using the best possible case scenario in calculating the team's working uptime due to cap restraints, then claiming that this is the average that the team produces

[orchid bane]

[frank cipher]

luckily I'm not one who calculate 24h average, but it's what it's until someone make out new calc it's 4% lose at 23h cap

[arctic prism]

my guy I already told you where the 25500 came from, and it doesn't account for ramp

[frank cipher]

so 24h average actually doesn't count ramp?

[arctic prism]

yes that value you are using isnt accounting for ramp

and as I said many times you cant use 23 hours as your cap

in order to make that team work 23 hours you have to get 10/10 4 gold orders

all other scenarios they work significantly less

[frank cipher]

mean ideally they cap at 23h?

[arctic prism]

??? what do you mean ideally they cap at 23h
we're talking about averages no?

if you're not talking about averages theres no point in even having this conversation

[fluid pollen]

we’re still on this?

[arctic prism]

lol he responded and theres nothing else going on in the chat so

[frank cipher]

oh ok

[arctic prism]

like if we're talking ideals then bibeak is a worthless op

just hit the 4 gold without it

[frank cipher]

should be average 24h already count low order high order calc?

instead of all high order 10/10?

[arctic prism]

yes?
like think about it
if you hit 10/10 2 gold orders
that team works for a total of 12 hours

[frank cipher]

if not that not average and probably my mistake count those as average

if yes m point still valid

[arctic prism]

even using your generalized calculation method, this ends up resulting in a 50% reduction

[silent nova]

Holy moley

This is why I left it alone

[arctic prism]

i dont think you understand
im also saying your calculation method is wrong entirely
lets say someone gives you an accurate daily lmd average that takes ramp into account (without cap)
in this average, they would be using ~12 orders instead of the 10 you would get if you add an order cap

what you're doing is multiplying 10/12 to that daily average and saying this is correct

instead what you need to be doing is calculating the average lmd per order pre-ramp, as well as the average lmd per order post ramp. separately.
then you need to calculate on average how many orders don't get affected by ramp
calculate the amount of lmd you get from pre and post ramp orders separately then add it up

for a simplified representation of why these are different:
lets say pre ramp orders have an average lmd of 1000, and post ramp have an average of 2000, and on average, you make 12 orders per day + of those, 3 orders will not be affected by ramp
you're saying (1000 * 3 + 2000 * 9) * 10/12 = 17500 is the correct answer
I'm saying it should be 1000 * 3 + 2000 * 7 = 17000
you can see how these are different, yes?

[arctic prism]

yea i shouldnt have touched it

just felt like it was the blind leading the blind so i wanted to clarify but here we are

[orchid bane]

[frank cipher]

ik i take face value, what if day average already count those long ass calc, and how is 1h overcap reduce prod by 50%. if too complicated it's fine

[summer kernel]

couple of questions that im too lazy to dig through the wiki,

1. do all facilities stop working when all their slots die? i think RR continues even when empty right?
2. does shamare ramp work like every other ramp, where it updates every hour in slot linearly? Like it goes from default 20% to the 85% 4gold in 5hrs in 13% steps?

[orchid bane]

1. no, they keep working at 100% base

[summer kernel]

Office definitely stops

[orchid bane]

What ?

[summer kernel]

Office halts when my Penance dies

[orchid bane]

I mean

Ofc I let them die sometime

I think they just really slow ?

Not stop completely?

Or my brain stop working?

Gonna try putting dead op there, just 1 sec

[summer kernel]

unless i missed something, office straight up halts when dead or empty but i dont really remember any of the other facilities. Im assuming CC stops giving the -0.05MD per dead op but nothing special if completely dead
RR i think is the only one that continues running? Factory and TP im not sure but probably completely stop too but not sure if the +0.01 production and -0.05MD per slot over level1 is tied to the slot or the operator in the slot.

[summer kernel]

thanks for doing the science lol. my internet is too laggy right now, afraid id get locked out lol

[orchid bane]

Dead nian there

Still running ofc

[summer kernel]

oh maybe i was completely capped?

[orchid bane]

We just have kinda that convo here

You know what building don't work with dead op ?

[summer kernel]

PP definitely lol. thanks lancet

[orchid bane]

Wait. I was gonna talk about workshop

Dead OP don't trigger the 10% base

Need alive and enough morale OP

PP , maybe

[arctic prism]

(1000 x 3 + 2000 x 9) x 10/12
Vs
1000 x 3 + 2000 x 7
Does the difference between these 2 make sense to you

[orchid bane]

But Idts

Like

Kk let me test this

So PP still running 100% base even if I take out 3 OP

So probably dead OP is completely useless there

[summer kernel]

oh i was talking about the innate 5%, I think its still 6min/drone like sanity if dead or missing?

[arctic prism]

And the 50% reduction is just using your logic
Where did you get 23 hours / 24 hours from
It's from 176 minutes (time it takes to make a 4 gold order) * 10 just converted to hours no?
So my question is why don't you do the same but with 2 gold orders
2 gold order = 72 min
72 * 10 = 720 min = 12 hrs work time
12 /24 =50%

[orchid bane]

Ye I think there should be 5% base for alive OP

What I want to test is do I need OP there for drone to run but seem no

About the number Idk

[summer kernel]

tested all slots for science. rip my base.
Had to kill my Ines ramp

[summer kernel]

does anyone know the shamare ramp part of this question?

does shamare ramp work like every other ramp, where it updates every hour in slot linearly? Like does "Increase" go from default 20% to the 85% 4gold order in 5hrs in 13% steps?

I watched Peter's video on it but it seems outdated since his numbers are 70% for tailoring beta.
He sketched a graph of the ramp time and he thinks its linear but thats probably just a convenient abstraction since we know most other ramp effects are stepwise.

[orchid bane]

Tbh I don't even trust those "85%" number unless I know where it is from

[summer kernel]

true, but we stand on the shoulders of giants. I'm too late to the party to have seen the knowledge be discovered.
Hoping you ancients were there to have datamined/done the experimental analysis

[orchid bane]

This is prts

[summer kernel]

my chinese isnt that great but point 5 says that they arent really sure about the ramp, right?

[jaunty notch]

aside from prts, i also went through manual datalogging from jp and the ratio was almost the same

[frank cipher]

1hour overcap : -50% : 10* 2gold order at 95% 3/4 gold order for 21h? we'll bring this back when i decide to run 1 lmd tp (can't prove/disapprove)

[summer kernel]

so its the normal linear hourly-stepwise ramp behavior? After 1hr, increase should be 20+13%?

Or are you talking about the final 85/10/5% ratio?

[jaunty notch]

final ratio

[arctic prism]

what are you saying man, how did we get here after everything I've told you
regardless, I think it's been pretty clear that you can't understand anything I'm saying anyways so I'm not gonna bother trying to explain anymore, just know that whatever you're doing is completely inaccurate

[jaunty notch]

you can't exactly measure linear ramp anyway

it's almost the same thing about clue bias essentially

you'd have to only ramp until a certain time then only log that ratio in

which is in itself unreliable and a pain in the bum

[summer kernel]

i mean we can experimentally: its just that we dont have a clean and large enough collection of data since we dont care that much.

is your guess that its just 0 to 100 after 5hrs then?

[jaunty notch]

so you're better off just collecting things altogether and calc that

@scarlet lion also made a survey on it, maybe he can help you more with it

[orchid bane]

To begin with, you shouldn't care that much. Best thing you can do is start ramping at the begin of 4 gold order

Cursed few 1st orders if you want

[jaunty notch]

. jfc i got sucked into the clown fiesta

[arctic prism]

lmao

genuinely curious though to anyone that was lurking/reading along, did any part of what I said not make sense or was hard to follow

cant tell if i was just shit at explaining or what

[orchid bane]

Tbh. I can't read

[fluid pollen]

Math is my worst subject.

[summer kernel]

oh i didnt realize yall spent hours talking about shamare already

[silent nova]

Tailoring ramp has been largely unknown in en for like 4 years

Maybe try this

[scarlet lion]

what have i been summoned into

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

[fluid pollen]

Raised someone from dead.