Extreme, Ultimate & Challenge Battles

[fading walrus]

So -5 + RNG

Not sswally level ofc

[rich heron]

Redlax and colress are better for Gloria

[fading walrus]

Uhhhh què

[snow spruce]

so could any other team do sun Anabel?
-Arc Cynthia and Ice duo by definition cannot even really attempt a sun Anabel and I doubt NC Red without Irida could do it (?)
-full Electric cant
-Poison/Flying nah
-Adaman sun team ? I guess not, his non-sync dps is too low .. Would getting Strike or Field EXR allow him to do a sun Anabel?

we really gonna need that Fire Arc to replicate it

[warm haven]

fire arc will allow a lot of Sun Anabel clears

[snow spruce]

I guess

[warm haven]

UBs will be the easy content we will need UBs EX

[low coral]

Adaman could only attempt if Red wasn't Fire-weak in the first place

And even so, Acerola doesn't have a sturdy backbone

The possibility will be there maybe with a Grass Arc support

[paper mural]

I want a hard hail ub so NC Red + Irida can prove they're still strong when the opponents take advantage of hail as well.

[low coral]

Well, Thorton is not Hail, but he already comes close to being the anti-matchup

High Ice damage for Ice Zone, Ice doesn't have Attack or Def debuffs by default, and 60% of his HP has 3x Sp. Def

[snow spruce]

hail UB would be such a freebie breather for Cynthia .. after all the sweating with sand Nita
even the Ice sync is not a problem, with 260 both defences (after mega) and ~900 base HP

[low coral]

That really depends on how the UB even is

Since Cynthia already appreciates Nita being Ground

[snow spruce]

I cant imagine there being a major issue, Cynthia + Steven already cover so much:
-weather
-zone
-rebuffs
-Atk/Spatk/def/spdef/speed debuffs
-trap
-flinch
-plus the sheer bulkiness and heals, and endures
The 3-rd spot is free, you should be able to cover virtually anything with it (which is mostly status condition or extra debuffs), as long as the UB is reasonable-ish (aka no Terra Firma 10).
Not all of those 8-9 Arc Duo 11/11 teams will keep their streaks, but the stronger ones likely will for a while

[tulip jolt]

Any advice on if any of the ultimate battles left are doable with my units? Selected the more notable units, have most of the gen pool units with decent move levels

[lone bramble]

check the pins for the UB clear sheet, see if you can replicate any of those clears

[tulip jolt]

Giovanni seemed maybe doable if i got some more movel levels on Cynthia

[low coral]

Some cores already do that as well, like Electric, but it's always at the mercy of DeNA in general

The first UB with a clear focus on Terrains will probably filter a lot of full clears

Unless it's Argenta level or something like that

[tulip jolt]

had already looked through that, nothing seemed clearly replicable with what i had

[vernal sluice]

I think Dena obviously avoid terrain and zone as gimmick since they are not as widely accessable as weather. Which is why we always have either just weather or all WTZ.

[low coral]

I assume that's why weather has a focus as well, but then again, Speed debuffs are also quite limited

So sometimes they care more than others

[snow spruce]

yeah we have like 10-11 zones, yet there still hasnt been a zone version of Anabel/Argenta/Nita
and they made Argentas terrain very weak too

[paper mural]

It's wild they did Terra Firma 10 once.
What's the point of that passive anyway? Other Levitate units at best get "Ground Guard" and at worst don't get anything to represent it.

[low coral]

Yeah, Argenta already is weak for rain, and Terrain is literally just 30% for each side alive

The effects all go away when both sides go down

[low coral]

Just make it more gimmick, really

The only relevant Ground attacker at the time was Cynthia

Otherwise, you would be limiting Ingo's Mud Slap or stopping Clay from being your main damage dealer

[snow spruce]

there are so many Zone setters now, inc some free ones (new Lillie, DC units etc.)
they can probably make zone setting UBs just fine tbh

[vernal sluice]

We don't have spotlight zone setter right? The free ones are all events.

Shame on me.

[paper mural]

After AcrLance I think the Dragon ub will be Thorton 2.0 (need both phy and spe dmg) with some different second gimmick.

[vernal sluice]

phy + spe, rebuff and debuff .

[snow spruce]

they dont really make UBs just to shill specific 1% units .. but yeah I think Dragon UB gimmick could be mixed damage

[river prawn]

Lillie being ground weak is what stops the steel team from doing Noland I think

I am trying rn

And if you deny Poliwrath, Machamp just does eq then

[snow spruce]

why does that matter ? his sync is fighting, right ?

Thats what I said earlier - you DONT deny the side

[river prawn]

That is hard to do

[snow spruce]

you have to do it with losing Steven turn 1 AND without denying the side. Thats the catch

[river prawn]

I don't think you can clear by delaying the damage so late

Lear hits everyone

But I can try I guess

[snow spruce]

it was done twice, but both involved Cynthias insane damage and more importantly - her giving herself 4 PMUNs after sync

[river prawn]

Lear and Lillie cant do 50% in two moves

Precious Make it Rain with +4 smun does 65k

By denying the side at the start you could squeeze out a better rotation, but you cant do that

[snow spruce]

Machamp has 246,400 HP, so 50% = 123,200 dmg needs to be done in ~2 attacks

[river prawn]

Cynthia already does it tightly

[snow spruce]

true

[river prawn]

It is just too much to ask

She has -2 rebuff, steel only -1 if Steven is sacrificed

[snow spruce]

@fast pendant btw when you did the Cynthia-SS Lear Noland clear - did you kill steal the side or not ?
the Noland clear with NC Silver didnt do it, but idk how you did it. I assume no, because the crit EQ (which he does if you kill a side early) + Noland sync combo doesnt seem survivable in this case

[snow spruce]

Thx. Yeah, no kill steal. Just raw damage in 2 stacked attacks at the end

[warm haven]

what's that damage 😭

[snow spruce]

Its tech sync nuke with rebuff and terrain. I mean seems about right ?

[fading walrus]

Yeah

[mental jasper]

wtf did I just watch

[paper mural]

Yeah I don't think SS Lear + Anni Lillie can replicate it, considering Anni Lillie's bmove is not ArcCynthia tier strong.

[sour elk]

That +8 Precious Make it Rain did 55.7k zoneless, so with zone Lillie would only need to hit about 40K

Seems hard since she won't have Steven's help to stack PMUN, but it is worth a shot, it can probably be done with good enough gear

Maybe Goldhengo will need to attack more and not be able to stack up to +8 with Lillie though

[stable storm]

I have so many questions

[snow spruce]

I dont think he would have 8 SMUN in the Steel clear
in the Cynthia clear Lear doesnt attack at all except for that stacked attack at the very end, but he probably needs to attack earlier in the steel clear

[sour elk]

Yeah, he probably needs to take first sync too

Maybe with godly 30% steel damage gear

[snow spruce]

and even so, I'm not sure Lillie can hit 40K+ without any PMUN stacks and with only 2 sync buffs (and with 1 steel rebuff)

the 1 less rebuff for both dps hurts the overall damage

Noland has become a major 11/11 UB streak killer. On par or greater than Anabel and Nita

its just because of the Steven match-ups
steven is godly on Nita, good on Anabel and bad on Noland

[warm haven]

they would have to deny a side

[snow spruce]

Cant do that , you die (especially Lillie)

[warm haven]

how much damage does lear take?

[snow spruce]

NC Blue is the opposite. He is not great on Nita, but far better on Noland
on Anabel probably around same

so Lillie - weak to ground
Steven - to ghost
Lear - to fire
2 common weaknesses, 1 uncommon

[stable storm]

tbf he's meant to be a puzzle so makes sense

[paper mural]

Lear is weak to fire but stand almost the entire fight during that sun Anabel clear.

[stable storm]

Lear is HIM

[tacit hatch]

oh wow the steven / ss lear / anni lillie anabel clear is insane

[stable storm]

anabel in Sun

[river prawn]

I have 20% steel gear and still the damage isnt enough

[stable storm]

btw what do we think about regular Lear now

[river prawn]

Lillie either dies too quickly if you deny side(SS Lear survives the crit eq) or you delay damage too much

To clear in time

[stable storm]

get 45%

[river prawn]

Even then it would be questionable

It's so far off

[river prawn]

There was a discussion earlier in this chat

Mainly compared to SS Steven

[tacit hatch]

this is wild

pure damage

steven just there to setup the symc moves up and die

well that and a lot of head start

[snow spruce]

SS lear survives the crit EQ, but does he survive the follow-up sync dmg ? I dont think any dps survives the crit EQ + Noland sync combo, even if they take neutral damage

[river prawn]

No he can't

[low coral]

You can survive, but the team has to be built around that

[river prawn]

Not without defense buffs

[low coral]

Like using Bianca

[snow spruce]

well yeah .. I mean in this team without any extra DR besides circle

[stable storm]

he's more on ss lys level imo

[river prawn]

If Steven had guard entry in grid it would be a no brainer

But alas

[paper mural]

Lear + Avery is a cool core imo.

[novel fog]

No longer mad about spending nearly 200$ for 1/5 SS Lear

[snow spruce]

should have swapped Lance and Stevens custom cookies

[river prawn]

Forcing them on Noland doesn't prove anything to me, what they have done already is waaay beyond expectations

[stable storm]

Noland isn't a traditional ub

[river prawn]

Since SS Lear released there has been a constant upload of overperforming clears

[snow spruce]

Noland is the most niche UB and probably the most unique fight in Masters

[stable storm]

he has easy to access counters but demands them and wants precise plays

[stable storm]

best ub imo

Noland clears often are rngless

[tacit hatch]

dang. maybe i should 4/5 steven lol (i dont want to make the jump hastily but all these ridiculous lear clears are tempting me)

[stable storm]

and focus on timing

[river prawn]

Steven is the hardest carry among supports

Not just for SS Lear

[tacit hatch]

true its just 3 omni candies

steep investment

esp. for f2p

[shrewd marten]

interesting

[stable storm]

is lear the best circle unit now

[shrewd marten]

so we really just need a sstr

[earnest panther]

more or less, yes.

[shrewd marten]

lucas aint cuttin it

[snow spruce]

every type needs an SST Red and an Arc steven/NC Blue

[shrewd marten]

well

not ground

and ice would like it but doesnt need it

[snow spruce]

tbh I kidna want a broken ground type partner for AS Cynthia .. all her best clears have 0 other ground dps, feels wrong
and our only ground MF is very old and powercrept, its time for a new one. Make it have the best synergy with Cynthia

[low coral]

We do have a broken Ground in Adaman

[snow spruce]

liek a ground SSTR or ground SS Lear or ground NC silver

[low coral]

It's just not worth it to focus just on damage with her

[tacit hatch]

ground team would become ridiculously insane then 😅

[shrewd marten]

thats the hilarious part

cynthia has monopolized ground types to be all about her

[tacit hatch]

tbf the steel team appeared out of nowhere in a single month

[shrewd marten]

its not a steel team

[tacit hatch]

so DeNA can do what they want

[shrewd marten]

its just steven

[paper mural]

The circle of a region that has least unit (excluding all the eggmons) is actually the best circle user lol.

[shrewd marten]

i mean lears really good

[low coral]

Wdym Steven / Lear / Lillie isn't a Steel team lol

[shrewd marten]

but what i mean is steven alone makes a steel team

[dim lance]

Cynthia has monopolized any team she's slotted in to be about her

that's more accurate lol

[shrewd marten]

das true

[stoic lake]

Beat my last UB (Nita)!

[shrewd marten]

those 2 arc units create archetypes

[snow spruce]

its definitely all 3 of them, not just steven

[dim lance]

they don't create archetypes, they're just so strong on their own they just

[shrewd marten]

wut makes u say that

[dim lance]

define their own brute indiscrimate archetype

[stoic lake]

surprised a ss lear, arc cynthia, and arc steven clear wasnt done yet

[stable storm]

SS Lear is number 3 hybrid imo

[dim lance]

you don't put bugsy on Steven/Cynthia and call it the best bug team

lol

[novel fog]

Move levels?

[dim lance]

i thought it already was no

[shrewd marten]

i dont deny ss lear is incredibly awesome amazing

[stoic lake]

not on the doc

[stable storm]

does arc cyn arc Steven SS Lear count as steel team

[shrewd marten]

but i feel like arc steven just like

doe sthe thing

[stable storm]

it was but not posted on doc

[shrewd marten]

with anybody

[stoic lake]

pretty much max invest (4/5 cynthia, 5/5 steven, 3/5 lear)

[snow spruce]

it was .. Arc Duo + SS lear are at 10/11 UBs, only missing Leon

[stoic lake]

oh cool

i guess i'll upload mine to the doc if no one else was though 💀

[stable storm]

does this count as steel

[snow spruce]

it is on this doc 😉
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1unwNqwt18yroGqlEpdcnvYBhpn7KdX-ZCD53vqiufzg/edit?gid=1190611733#gid=1190611733

[novel fog]

Ah

[dim lance]

if a team has cynthia in it, don't call it anything by a cynthia comp

steven at least has anchored non-steel things like Noland bug against Eve

people also probably don't care about using anything substandard over Lear/Lillie

Haven't seen Poppy or Rose variants

[stable storm]

is Lear above nc leaf now

[stoic lake]

lmao i have the exact same lucky skills 💀 wish i couldve had adrenaline on lear but no cookies

[stable storm]

or nc silver

[low coral]

I think Lear was already better than Silver regardless, but I think it's near unanymous now

[formal matrix]

So the full steel team is at 10/11 now?

[snow spruce]

yes

-NOland

[stable storm]

what about hu tao

noland blocking more clears than Nita

[formal matrix]

One day, if they ever update lucky cookies and put initial guard in it

[shrewd marten]

so he giga worth candy? he that gud?

[snow spruce]

tbh what else is there to spend Sprint candies on ? Rei ?
i guess maybe SS Gladion

[shrewd marten]

ss gladion is a strike innit

but yeah i spent it on rei already

so lear it is

[snow spruce]

Oh yeah
so its basically just Lear, realistically

[stoic lake]

yeah lear is the first sprint MF

and i immediately spent my candies on lear cause the only option for me was archer 💀

[shrewd marten]

hell yeah

[stoic lake]

even if lear wasnt as good as he was, i still spent my 2 sprint candies as soon as i pulled him lmao

[shrewd marten]

he got the okabe voice i gonna do it

[warm haven]

me with paulo

i wanted that extra HS1

[shrewd marten]

oh yeah thats a unit

[stoic lake]

i wouldve spent candies on paulo

[warm haven]

rei and him ate all my sprint candies

[stoic lake]

if he ever was reran or put into a select

[shrewd marten]

crap

im one coin off

[stoic lake]

im like 30 away from pitying on mix and next months datamine determines if i pull paulo or not lmao

[snow spruce]

Speaking of - Does Arc Duo + SC Adaman have a chance of doing Noland or Nita ?
or lack of sync accel hurts too much on Noland?

Danger Damage Guard
Applies the Damage Guard Next effect to the user the first time its HP drops to half or below each battle.
this wont save him from Nolands t1 fissure, right ?

[fast pendant]

Nop

[warm haven]

nope but it could save him from the 10 PMUN EQ

[fast pendant]

Unless they're able to drop before being hit by it

[snow spruce]

hmmm

[warm haven]

also has nobody tried arc trio vs all ubs?

[snow spruce]

No one really tried and Nita would be VERY hard. But aside from Nita the rest should be easy

[warm haven]

yeah but if arc duo + lear could with lance it could be posible

[snow spruce]

could be, but harder than with Lear

[river prawn]

Since you can instaqueue iron heads into each other Nita may be possible

you just dont sync with Steven first

[snow spruce]

why not?

[river prawn]

syncing with him is an opportunity cost

you dont get to flinch Hippowdon

[hearty cedar]

I have 3/5 lear but cant do it till 28th. If we have to break noland, we need to figure out the turn rotation first

[river prawn]

I'm calling it impossible

[warm haven]

you can flinch hippo with lance actually

[river prawn]

forgot about that

well optimally that would be the way

then you have a chance of presync

and can keep up with the rest of speed buffs

[stoic lake]

i saw the steel team beat anabel that was insane

i didnt think anabel was beatable in sun lmao

[river prawn]

especially because Lear is fire weak

[hearty cedar]

And they could have pre sync'd if they had focused on entei instead of arcanine

[stoic lake]

lmao

[hearty cedar]

Only noland left

[river prawn]

Noland is not realistic

[hearty cedar]

The only monotype theme to ever conquer almost all ubs without any regard for the gimmicks

[river prawn]

as I said before when I tried, you cant do 128k with 2 attacks

[hearty cedar]

Ye its too damn restrictive but hey, he said there's a chance

[hearty cedar]

You can but not when they are endured twice

Those endures makes it unbeatable

[stoic lake]

if only noland didnt have piercing gaze

or blows

or whatever

[hearty cedar]

All ubs have them

[stoic lake]

then steven could endure twice

[hearty cedar]

P.blows when we have it:- this is useless
P.blows when opponents has it:- oh shit we are in trouble

P.blows is underrated

Lillie's p.blows dps helped a lot against anabel

[stoic lake]

is anni lillie considered better than sc selene yet

[river prawn]

always was

[stoic lake]

poor sc selene

[hearty cedar]

Always will be

[stoic lake]

at least i didnt candy her lmao

[hearty cedar]

New tier list has new lillie way lower than mix red....

[stoic lake]

if units are determined by their teammates too then anni lillie should be like s minimum lmao

[river prawn]

well she is in a high tier

in the most competitive list

[stoic lake]

i havent checked, is she hybrid?

[river prawn]

yes

[hearty cedar]

Pretty sure they ranked nc.cheren lower than nc.red back then thanks to nc.red having a better team comp

[river prawn]

after all it's a team based game

it makes sense

[warm haven]

her performance was excelent but it's clear that the other two did the heavy work

[stoic lake]

yeah, anni lillie in ubers when though

[hearty cedar]

I mean common, that lower than mix red?

[hearty cedar]

While its true that the other 2 did more work than her, her contributions were very necessary tbh. She bypassed anabel's and leon's dmg reducing passives and it helped a lot

[tawdry bone]

With my units which of these could I take quite easily ?

[stoic lake]

still crazy that the solgaleo sync moves dont also have piercing blows

[tawdry bone]

Ridiculously big image I'm sorry

Oh my god that quality is embarrassingly bad

[stoic lake]

rats + nc blue spotted

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-masters-pokemon-pokemon-rats-pokemon-masters-rats-pokemon-masters-ash-gif-14100132396804486972

[warm haven]

yeah, it was necessary

but it's like, there's no other options

It's like irida, she makes NC Red who he is but take her away from him and she disintegrates.

[hearty cedar]

Who disintegrates again?

Msg says she but it implies he

[warm haven]

she

how many clears have her that's not against nita

[stoic lake]

i thought they were comparing irida to lillie

[hearty cedar]

I mean yeah, those 2 are perfect together. As perfect as steven with lear

[stoic lake]

imagine if lear was phys 💀

[hearty cedar]

I wasnt even comparing irida with lillie. I was comparing lillie with mix red. I think you got confused between mix red and nc.red lol

[stoic lake]

mix red is prob ranked higher because more debuffs, healing and poison

[shrewd marten]

That would break the game

[hearty cedar]

I kinda like this. Steven and lillie takes care of physical while lear takes care of special

[shrewd marten]

Frfr

[warm haven]

we i made the comparison

[shrewd marten]

Is solillie actually the second best steel dps

[warm haven]

But with mix red, look how he's a very valid option despise competing with a MF that was once the best unit in the game

[snow spruce]

Lillie is the one who provides zone and Piercing Blows extend range move (with 500 Atk), I'd say she is very nearly as important as Lear himself

[shrewd marten]

Daym

[hearty cedar]

Lillie literally has potions tho. While I agree that red has more debuffs, why are we not considering team comp's abilities to debuff while discussing this topic? Since we take team comps into consideration while judging other units

[shrewd marten]

The fact that a f2p unit is that good

Actually wild

She’s like sycamore all over again

[stoic lake]

imo i think anni lillie should be placed way higher lmao

[hearty cedar]

Lunana crying on the moon

[shrewd marten]

The true anni lillie

[hearty cedar]

True anni steven when

[stoic lake]

telling my kids this was anni lillie

[hearty cedar]

Oh wait

[shrewd marten]

When arc suit rayquaza

:3

[hearty cedar]

We got redemption for anni steven and anni lillie

[stoic lake]

zinnia wishes

[shrewd marten]

Exactly

Steven’s getting all of it

That would be so fucking evil though

If Steven gets BOTH of them

Like it could be blue I guess but like

Rayquaza

Dascent

[warm haven]

just wait for Anni Steven (2025) & Jirachi to complete the ultimate steel team

[formal matrix]

I actually think anni N reskin with a better kyurem (compared to Ghetsis) is possible next lol

[warm haven]

honestly i would put lillie in S+ at least if she had steel wish instead of potions

[formal matrix]

“Hello I’m N. And btw this is the Kyurem Hilbert gave me from his pocket.” N probably

[shrewd marten]

There’s actually 3 kyurems I caught it on my travels

[shrewd marten]

That’s borderline masterfair unit, if she had extension that WOULD be

[hearty cedar]

N:- hello I'm N. As one of the heroes of unova, my mission is to bring together all the legendary dragons of the unova

[shrewd marten]

Like at base she’s a pokefair already

Add steel wish she teeters on high pokefair

[hearty cedar]

I like the fact that her zone only ran out in 1 ub so far, that too, she was heavily weak against to

Was it on leon ub or nita ub?

If lillie has steel zone extension that would have been absolute bonkers

[low coral]

At no point she was really compared to the Mix units

[hearty cedar]

I'm only referring to the list

[low coral]

While I prefered her to start higher, the aggregate voting left her lower

[hearty cedar]

I'm pretty sure our views match on her placement needing to be higher

And ye its the aggregate vote that doesnt make sense

[low coral]

I think the overall views went up already anyway

She's probably going up next update

[hearty cedar]

Hope so

As a nc.nate spammer, I'm conflicted about placing her above him but I cant deny that she could be better than him

[snow spruce]

her sync is obv worse, but otherwise Lillie is > NC Nate IMO

[hearty cedar]

If we include team comps then her sync gets boosted significantly but nate also has lance

Imo they are both equal or nate is a bit better than her. The issue is the dragon comp still needs a better support

[warm haven]

a dragon zone support would skyrocket nate

[hearty cedar]

IF its also bulky

[fast pendant]

That's way more credit than she deserves imo

[hearty cedar]

Part of me wants to agree but that would be me being biased. I'm truly conflicted with that comparison lol

[warm haven]

yeah people are forgetting than the steel team already was a top tier team without steel zone

[hearty cedar]

Its like reliable and medium speed clear vs reliabe and fast af clear

Steel team can do both. Lillie provides the speed clear while gimmick checkers provides the medium speed clear

[snow spruce]

wouldnt a dragon zone support potentially just replace Nate ?
you would run that support + Lance + any dragon dps with consistent/every turn AoE .. and you would give syncs to Lance, so he can nuke + build SMUN stacks

[rigid hare]

please yes

[hearty cedar]

But lillie contributing for leon and anabel with her p.blows effects, clearing nita(despite dying in the end) deserves a lot of credit

[hearty cedar]

Yes and no, it depends on the stage. Even with that support, there's a very high chance that nate will still be there

[warm haven]

where's your circle

and you would need an AoE dragon to complement lance

[hearty cedar]

Bcuz nate's burst dps is aoe which lance appreciates and his nuke is OP so it helps clear the sides even faster. Also, nate's circle boosts lance's insane nuke even more

[snow spruce]

circles are totally skippable IMO, Lears is only good because of his 60% team passives (and team-wide immunity sometimes)
otherwise they are a lot worse than rebuffs and WZT

[hearty cedar]

Um, that 60% is additive btw

[snow spruce]

I know

[hearty cedar]

Circle stacking is multiplicative

[warm haven]

It's a minimum 20% multiplicative. They are mostly skippables if you can't slot them

[hearty cedar]

Circle stacking is insanely busted

[low coral]

Nate's a decent offensive unit in general still

The only other Dragon that could probably enter the competition is Leon

The rest still would most likely fall before Nate and Serena

[hearty cedar]

Well leon enters the competition for a different reason, his debuffs

Pure unga bunga clear:- nate
Less unga bunga but more reliable:- ss serena
No unga bunga but very reliable:- leon

[snow spruce]

its still only x1.1-1.2 vs x1.5
I mean that if I have a busted dragon support with good dragon zone uptime and if I can find a better dragon AoE/dps (that can do good dmg every turn), then I can totally skip Nate and his circle wouldnt convince me otherwise
its just that hypothetical dragon dps doesnt exist yet 😛 (Serena is the closest)

[hearty cedar]

Nate has passion, not solidarity

Passion is a minimum of 1.2x

[low coral]

Leon is not what I would call more reliable than the other two

[snow spruce]

Leon is a very tech/anti-gimmick pair with some dps

[low coral]

More so has a gimmick check when needed

[hearty cedar]

Honestly speaking that's my opinion too but I felt like others will say that so I just went ahead and accepted it

[warm haven]

Wdym by vs 1.5

[hearty cedar]

Basically what he's saying is that dragon zone is 1.5x boost compared to nate's circle so zone is more worth it

If we get a dragon zone support then why use nate over another dmg dealer when lance can keep syncing

[warm haven]

We're talking about a dragon zone support, the team wouldn't have to chose. It would have - 3 rebuff zone and circle

[hearty cedar]

@snow spruce

[snow spruce]

1.5 is 2 rebuffs or zone. i was comparing them with circle (kind of similar purpose)

[hearty cedar]

I'm pretty sure that nate has an even higher nuke than ss lear. It helps lance get rid of sides faster

[warm haven]

Yeah why compare it, we're talking about no circle dps vs nate with circle

Ofc circle is inferior to zone but in this case you're just removing it not replacing it

[hearty cedar]

Ye unless you need a specific gimmick checker, there's no need to remove nate from the dragon core

He's a free boost tbh

[snow spruce]

I mean I would have to choose - Nate circle, but only doing big dmg once every 3 turns (and the rest is ~Scaling Shot)
vs some hypothetical high dmg dragon dps every turn (but maybe without a circle)
ofc it still depends on the rest of their kit too
but anyway a top dragon zone support gives more options for 3-rd slot (like the above mentioned BT leon as anti-gimmick slot)

[hearty cedar]

It kinda grinds my gears when I see yt vids with nc.nate with scale shot lol(i appreciate that they make them). I only use 1 scale shot that too on turn 1 to reduce sync count in my ub runs. If you time it right, you dont need scale shit

[snow spruce]

dragon generally lacks anti-gimmicks, so BT leon is kinda good for that

[warm haven]

yeah

[hearty cedar]

Well that dmg he does(once in 3 turns) is stronger than twice the usage of many well appreciated moves so that's helpful. Also his primary asset, his nuke, is a very solid contribution for lance's lack of aoe dealing

[warm haven]

still i dont see BT Leon that necesary, they would still have the problem of being too ST

lance doesnt really need ST dmg

[snow spruce]

well if the lack of anti-gimmick prevents you from doing the stage at all, then thats more important than having AoE

[hearty cedar]

I absolutely despise how ss nemona f's up her circle usage and still somehow placed higher than nc.nate. The sun is not appreciated by sun abusers but it did give her a chance to clear nita ub

[hearty cedar]

I mean, after witnessing the steel team, pretty much everything feels surreal tbh

[snow spruce]

most UBs and EBs require some sort of anti-gimmick, you cant really just go for only damage

[hearty cedar]

Eh, we are almost at the point where we can ignore EB's gimmicks for the most part

[snow spruce]

Steels teams "anti-gimmick" is Steven tbh

rebuff, flinch, debuffs

[hearty cedar]

We just need gimmick checkers for ubs at this point

[hearty cedar]

It is what it is lear silently bought off god and made steven that op so lear can have fun

[snow spruce]

60% single-target flinch is basically an anti-gimmick

of sorts
especially on the support

[warm haven]

it is, against nita

[hearty cedar]

Maybe this dragon wish support unit could be dragon type's arc steven. We can only cope

[snow spruce]

I think this dragon zone support can be a ~dragon Rika. Thats what you can realistically hope for
still good, but not steven level

[hearty cedar]

Then why cant nate's circle be the same 60% aoe is like critical strike 6 i.e. additive and lear buffs 1.1x aoe. Meanwhile nate buffs 1.2x aoe minimum which is probably the same as lear or higher than lear

[hearty cedar]

Drayden will be helpful thanks to unova circle

Oh wait, i finally understood your msg

[snow spruce]

He can, though i dont think x1.2 is better than x1.1 + 60%?
the main difference is that Lears B-move has extend range, Nates doesnt IIRC, and the other 2 turns Lear still has a 190+ BP normal move
...but realistically THE main difference is just that Lear has Steven and Nate doesnt

[hearty cedar]

I think you are confused about the roles in those teams

Ss lear is the main dmg dealer there

Nate isnt. Lance is the main dmg dealer of the dragon comp

While nate doesnt have extend range, he still has a better nuke than lear to help clear the sides. Lance is proficient enough to kill the mid

Nate as the sole dmg dealer will suck for sure

And yes, nate's bmove is stronger than 2x make it rain

[snow spruce]

yes. Nates main contribution is the zone (IMHO). AoE too. But the zone above all.
so if the support provides the dragon zone (with good uptime) - you can have more options for 3-rd slot.

[snow spruce]

But not stronger than 1x Precious Make It Rain + 2x Make It Rain

[hearty cedar]

Ye true

Like I said, nate is just an assist like how lillie is

True dmg dealer there is lance

[hearty cedar]

1. Absolutely agreed. Your point is 100% correct
2. What I'm saying is that there are many reasons why that potential option for the 3rd slot will still be nate
3. A great aoe nuke combined with extra dragon zone. I see no issues here(unless you need a very specific gimmick checker)

[snow spruce]

Dragon got an arc anni pair and it still kinda needs a lot it feels

[hearty cedar]

If steel can get fixed in a month then it always has hope

/cope

[fading walrus]

Thing is, dragon is far from "needing a fix"

[hearty cedar]

It's just gimmicks tbh

That too for ubs

[fading walrus]

No, it's just dragon being a type with a lot of shots fired already

[hearty cedar]

A simple nc.blue with dragon wish would solve dragon core

[hearty cedar]

?

[fading walrus]

"a simple NC blue with dragon zone"

Ah yes,

Very normal expectations

[snow spruce]

a simple NC blue with dragon zone, will that be all ?

[hearty cedar]

I mean....look at the stuff we are getting lol

[fading walrus]

Yeah, we just got lance

[hearty cedar]

Another arc dragon after 1.5yrs trust /s

[fading walrus]

Which means no dragon arc or MF support for another while

[fading walrus]

Ok, here's zerena 2.0, strike arc fair, with kalos analysis

[hearty cedar]

Lol, dragons are being busy one upping each other than helping each other. Lore accurate

[fading walrus]

Yea

That's my point

I don't rely on DeNa pushing out a dragon arc/MF support anytime soon because of their recent and historical bias

After all...

[hearty cedar]

Well, ss gladion and ss nemona happened 6 months apart so there's always hope...

[snow spruce]

Dragon definitely needs something like a top-tier unit that can (preferably AoE) debuff spatk/atk well, to start with. Ideally a support (aka the "dragon nc blue"), but a dps/tech would work too
not BT leon, he isnt that top-tier and he cant reliably debuff SpAtk .. obviously not C.Iris either, need way better than that

[hearty cedar]

This is enough to make a grown man cry

[fading walrus]

Strikers one upping each others is exactly what I expect

God arc ciris support with sameish kit and better passives and actual support stats and exr would go pretty hard...

[hearty cedar]

Maybe someone can see how far the dragon core go with arc steven. They are only missing a bit more zone

[warm haven]

tell that to flying MFs

[hearty cedar]

And make her support and she would be insane

[fading walrus]

Well flying got basically nothing for ages

[fading walrus]

That's what I said

[warm haven]

one flying MF powercreeping the last one each year

[hearty cedar]

Flying is having the same problem with their techs trying to one up each other

[fading walrus]

???

Flying had pretty much nothing before cheren

[warm haven]

ethan erasure

[fading walrus]

Ethan sucks

Always did

Always will

[warm haven]

💀

[fading walrus]

I genuinely never understood what people saw in that kit lol

He's worse Anni N

[hearty cedar]

Ethan was so unfortunate. Cheren debuted on the same month ethan got his ex role on. Never even got the chance to shine

[fading walrus]

And that's saying a lot.

[snow spruce]

I still honestly have no clear idea how that team with Chren, Mina, anni SKYLA managed to clear 11/11 UBs

[fading walrus]

Skyla 5/5 is kinda goated

[warm haven]

thats mostly because of cheren

[hearty cedar]

I thought I was the only one that said this. Ppl were saying the opposite for quite some time

[fading walrus]

For antigimmick and stagger

[fading walrus]

Nah Ethan is just sad

[hearty cedar]

Ye

[fading walrus]

At least N has some numbers and some way to help team

[warm haven]

NC Leaf exists stealing all his jobs

[low coral]

What did Dragon even get post-Zerena?

[hearty cedar]

N with strike ex role can legit hang in 2024's power crept stage

[low coral]

Most of the stuff is either a sidegrade or worse

[fading walrus]

She just needed an amazing flying DPS and casually enough we got a unova one too to stack mp

[warm haven]

oh yeah dragon got frozen in time since Zerena

[hearty cedar]

Nate, lance, ny claire(we dont talk about lodge)

[fading walrus]

I guess bt Leon

[hearty cedar]

Oh ye bt leon too

Og lance update made him way better too but zerena was still better

[low coral]

Like, before Lance, you can still make a very solid case the best Dragon core was Zerena + Lucas

[fading walrus]

I don't think so but he'd definitely boost him up a big notch

[low coral]

Which was available 2.5 years ago

[warm haven]

post ethan flying got summer liza too

[hearty cedar]

I'd say nate + lucas/victini but ye pretty much the same. Dragon got nothing for meta

Till lance

[fading walrus]

Summ Liza has the struggle of not fitting at all with skyla

Sadly

As I love her a lot

[low coral]

Nate + Hilda is not better and is not a Dragon core either

Nate comps could dispute based on content at least, but it's still a type frozen in time in terms of power

[hearty cedar]

"Type frozen"?

[river prawn]

Flying had SLiza for a year

Before Cheren

[fading walrus]

.

[low coral]

Flying had also seen Ethan before Liza

[hearty cedar]

Rosa + sliza + askyla is still a great flying team. Cheren is just too busted

[low coral]

Do there were still clear upgrades seen over time, even if the type itself wasn't that strong

It kept getting stronger

[warm haven]

Blue got a really good expansion too

[low coral]

Dragon started as the best type on 2.5 anni but kept that power level

For years

[warm haven]

Even Ethan's cake was perfect to evade powercreep. The presync noland clear depends on that

[hearty cedar]

Ethan's update was wonderful but cheren happened

[formal matrix]

Theorizing moment: can arc duo and SS Steven defeat all UB? Assuming Deoxys can transform into any of the forms

[snow spruce]

Nita and Noland would still be really hard

[formal matrix]

Defense Deoxys has damage guard on entry tho

Probably still very difficult

[low coral]

Maybe not Nita, but Cynthia and Steven both have strong matchups against her

[snow spruce]

Noland is probably fine seeing as how it was already done with Avery (!) and Greta (!)
Nita tho..

[warm haven]

steven normal has good flinches against nita

[fast pendant]

I think Nita would be fine

I would likely use speed

[low coral]

I think you still turn to Attack, no?

[fast pendant]

And tank with it over Steven

[low coral]

Since you got Protect for Sync anyway

[formal matrix]

So it is in principle possible to have 11/11?

[snow spruce]

maybe

[low coral]

Well, it's worth trying

Arc Duo mainly needs a Max Guard in essence

[fast pendant]

I don't think attack would have issues, it's probably possible with more than one of the forms for nita

Specially with you being able to keep supp ex and not lose quad queue

[warm haven]

ah yeah, and speed form isnt a bad tank

[snow spruce]

for Noland you might need 5/5 SS Steven, because that HS1 on grid is pretty important there

[fast pendant]

For defense form maybe

Speed has -2 from tm

[snow spruce]

although defence form steven really offers nothing on Noland besides that 1 dmg guard .. even less than Greta/Avery probably. And his dmg is very bad (138 SpAtk)
and I dont think you can use Speed for Noland, since only Defence one has a turn 1 dmg guard

[fast pendant]

You don't really need to do anything other than be alive

[low coral]

Well, Defense being alive is only for countdown

So Speed might still outweight

[fast pendant]

That would likely allow Cynthia to survive eq since 3 targets

And you can potion to survive sync

[low coral]

+10 PMUN crit still?

[fast pendant]

Wouldn't be crit since he doesn't kill iirc

[low coral]

Can you enable Disarm at least?

Oh, you mean by skipping left, then?

[fast pendant]

Yeah

[low coral]

Since normally EQ is after sync

[snow spruce]

yeah if you survive fissure, its not a crit EQ before sync.
well maybe like that it works. Basically a copy of Avery/Greta clears

[fast pendant]

Double hs1 defense allows for turn 1 sync

[snow spruce]

so you need 5/5 sssteven and go Defence

[fast pendant]

Well that's one option

Speed has up to -6 sync acceleration is an option as well

Atk idk if works but it's a good dmg to add

Also being able to keep the -2 acceleration

[formal matrix]

If only defense form’s output is higher I could defeat noland. Now I end up with 5% noland health left and he earthquake

Defense Deoxys do be trash

[shrewd marten]

Quite

[formal matrix]

Anyway the clown works

[shrewd marten]

Shocker

[formal matrix]

NY Wallace with arc duo for Palmer done

[paper mural]

Just a random thought: if we had SS Lear equivalent circle unit for nc blue + sst red could they update to steel team strength?
Sst Red has wtz + piercing blow + good aoe attack & debuff so he does all anni Lillie do, and nc Blue is essentially special arc Steven (without insane dmg on a support tho).

[dim lance]

https://youtube.com/shorts/V0ARRZd2TiE?si=__Uif1MO_wdVjouK

For the dopamine lovers

[dark dust]

Is Steel Team the first team to brute force Anabel under the sun

[stable tundra]

yes, it's the first and only team capable of doing that

[dark dust]

Wild

[stable tundra]

it's even more wild when one of them is weak to Fire

[dark dust]

It's amazing

[shrewd marten]

Why does it do so much damage

[shrewd marten]

Wait steel team did it???

[dim lance]

Because tech with rising tide and tiles is balanced

[dark dust]

https://youtu.be/cPys9kUyY7c?si=upoLyDsS0mLkwdBm

Almost pre-sync too

[shrewd marten]

Truly amazing

Bro I remember there was a convo that said we were very far from brute forcing Annabel

Guess not

The power of steel

[paper mural]

No need the theoretical fire arc suit.
Waiting for a theoretical unit not always ends up good anyway, like Arcsuit Lance doesn't bump NC Nate into crazy tier like I wished.

[dim lance]

Wait for drayden Drayton Hassel benga or w/e

To come and save dragon

Even Kieran has a good shot at it

[snow spruce]

great! Have you tried Nita with Arc Duo + NY Wallace?

that team only needs Nita and leon now

[paper mural]

Btw can ArcSteven + SS Lear + another third (not aLillie) do all ubs?

[river prawn]

Arc Cynthia

[paper mural]

Not ArcCynthia either. That is more Arc duo core than ArcSteven + SS Lear core.

[river prawn]

It's both

SS Lear is one of the biggest boosts you can give Cynthia

[formal matrix]

Not yet. Unfortunately I have a deadline to work on something else now

[crude kite]

hi hello, what move level were all of they

[formal matrix]

Steven and Cynthia both 5/5. Wallace 3/5. you don’t need this high level for Steven and Wallace tho. I have Steven at 5/5 because I’m a simp Wallace just need 1/5.

[crude kite]

1/5 wallace? perfect thanks for your insight 👹 (steven and cynthia are both 1/5 for me but one day…)

[formal matrix]

Yes, Wallace’s dmax move has 1/6 chance to open a damage guard effect for everyone in the team. Just have to reset for that for noland battle

[snow spruce]

no, so far only with Arc Cynthia
Noland is the biggest block there and so far only Cynthia has proven to have enough damage to bruteforce Noland if Steven dies turn 1 (doing so with either SS Lear or NC Silver)
you basically need to do 123K+ damage in 2 attacks to be able to clear Noland like that
and if you use some max guard pair instead for Noland, then you probably cannot do the other 10 UBs with same team (you could maybe try Steven + SS Lear + SST Red/NC Cheren, see if that works)

[formal matrix]

Well, now I’m curious if there is any arc Lance team that can do all UBs

[snow spruce]

Lances best bet to do all 11 UBs is also with the Arc Duo

11/11 UBs with one team is basically:
-Arc Duo + 3-rd
-Ice Duo with ~2/3 different supports
-Poison + SS Mina
-Flying + SS Mina

although at least a few options of Arc Cynthia + NC blue +3-rd should also be possible for 11/11. Most likely with NC Cheren & SST Red

[dark dust]

So it counts if the Duo is the same with the 3rd being dependent on gimmick?

[snow spruce]

no, those are all separate teams, and each one needs to do all 11 UBs with same team to "count".
-Ice team + Chase does all UBs
-then Ice team + SSA Cynthia also separately does all from scratch
-Ice team + NC Blue also
etc.
Of course this has no real meaning besides intentionally making things harder for yourself to flex teams/units. And to see how much a team can be pushed to do

[dark dust]

Oh I see

So OG Lear/Avery/NC Rosa is at 8/11. Good run

[paper mural]

I think it's 9/11. Only Leon and Noland cannot be done.

[dark dust]

Actually ye I rewatched. I saw that the short used NC Blue against Lucy

Idk why but I assume it should still be doable with Rosa

[snow spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V0ARRZd2TiE
here he is using Rosa in 8/11
NC blue for Lucy and Leon
SS Mina for Noland
but I assume Lucy can be done with Rosa, just with Antitoxin cookies

[dark dust]

Yep that's the one I saw

Good for Lear honestly

[paper mural]

Ig they just don't want to change ls. Using NC Blue's tm wisely they prob can clear Lucy without other two pairs rolling antitoxin.

[eternal yacht]

That's another UB done

[snow spruce]

I added Lear/Avery/NC Rosa at 9 UBs done

[rigid hare]

I finally did it

I just needed my good ol' pal Breloom 5/5 to end it

[winter narwhal]

So im currently trying to beat lucy and while she is easy i just cannot finish her because as cyn just dies to poison

[dark dust]

Give her antitoxin LS

[tacit hatch]

lucy is pretty easy as long as you have antitoxin yup that's her main gimmick shut down

[dull hill]

honestly i just used friend mend potion from nc Rosa to heal as cynthia

since friend mend removes status i believe

[limber fiber]

Can this team beat this? I also have these pairs to maybe replace leaf

[limpid egret]

Can i beat noland with my current units?

Best i managed is sides down and 50% on center

[grand herald]

How do I avoid Fissure against Noland?

[fading walrus]

Damage guard

Fly

Bounce

[grand herald]

I'm using Fly but not flinching..do I just keep resetting until it does?

[fading walrus]

?

Fly is to dodge fissure

Also Noland is stun immune

Can't flinch him

[grand herald]

Ohhh ok I had the target has the wrong pokemon lol my bad

[onyx cedar]

https://youtu.be/_tDoAKdpW0k

not so easy to do as you rely on getting -3 Def shred using Scale Shot lol

[warm haven]

bro just one shotted each bar

[low coral]

Nice

[snow spruce]

how relevant is taking Insult to Injury for 4/5 Arc Lance ?
its so far down in the grid

[onyx cedar]

in the past attempts, with Insult to Injury + 2 SMUN + Circle + Zone

it wasn't "strong enough" to put it on the threshold

[low coral]

In general? That would be one of the sections I would prioritize

Lance lacks multipliers otherwise besides his Arc Passive

[peak mist]

Which remaining boss of these four should be easiest with my box?

[fading walrus]

You have the NC blue tbolt NC silver combo

[peak mist]

Doesn’t that clear need hs1 on silver. I don’t have any hs1/generic deluxe left

[fading walrus]

No idea

But it's a very strong trio

[peak mist]

Tried to ontype Nita earlier and my teams either weren’t keeping up on speed debuffs (redcuno) or didn’t get past half (ghetsis)

Doesn’t help Nita resets debuffs on sync

[rigid hare]

i did it with zapdos irida and kyurem

the strategy was to sync with zapdos, then irida or kyurem both the laterals once, then always zapdos to survive with the heal he can provide with his sync at 3/5, then once all is good sync the center with irida, then b move until he dies, and lastly do all the aoe moves you can on the laterals that will have low HP because of the irida / kyurem syncs and all the aoe moves you did.

[formal matrix]

There are some general pool clear for noland. You can check the pinned UB document to see if you can get a team that’s working

[peak mist]

so noland is the easiest one remaining? good to know. ill look into that boss.

...i see a lot of lana in the doc immediately.

what makes Falkner so common for this boss? i get why lanas common, but that seems like an odd one to me

[lunar sedge]

Fly for fissure dodge

[peak mist]

there seems to be a LOT of dps options.

[snow spruce]

did anyone try to do Noland with Arc Duo + Arc Lance?
I thought it would be easy, but then I tried & realized that theres no way to get -6 sync accel (Lance has no native sync reduction) and so you cant sync Cynthia after 1 turn and without that I dont think its possible?
you have to give Cynthia HS1 + her passive + Propulsion9 = -3 total
Steven double HS1 = -2 total
and here you would give Lance HS1 to get -6 total, except you cant since his LS slot is taken by the custom Guard cookie
so only -5, not enough

Or maybe its just my skill issues

[neat needle]

Which one should I try tackling next?

Ik a lot of people say Darach but for the life of me I can’t keep FWT on the field for long enough even tho I have SS Silver, SS Diantha, and Alt Elio

[stable tundra]

You dont have to use Rock Zone exclusively

Check the pins for example clears that can be replicated and follow the builds and proofs

[neat needle]

Yes but wouldn’t it be best due to type weakness?

If u could name a zone that is better I could see if I can run it

[stable tundra]

If your Elio and Diantha lack investments to keep zone up for a long time you shouldn't use then

[neat needle]

Like I have Arc Cynth and Bertha

I have all arc suits

[stable tundra]

Yes, use them

[neat needle]

I also have 2/5 Irida and 3/5 NC Red

[stable tundra]

Arc Cynthia + Steven+ NC Silver is already an easy team

[neat needle]

Alr I’ll test it after I do something

[neat needle]

So like this?

I should use Steven first then spam Cynthia sync for the rest right?

[stable tundra]

Sync with Silver once to get access to mega and one more Sandstorm casting

[neat needle]

K and that’s after I run out of sandstorms with Cynthia correct?

[stable tundra]

I would save Cynthia's zone for later

Sync with Steven first -> Silver -> Cynthia. Basically you save Cynthia's zones after Silver setup 2 sands

[neat needle]

And that first sand is when he goes into battle correct?

[stable tundra]

You should read his passive

[formal matrix]

Did you actually give Cynthia hs1?

[neat needle]

2nd sync

[stable tundra]

give the other 2 Vigilance

[neat needle]

Kk

Also if they ever get burned I immediately reset?

[stable tundra]

yes

and no need to always ping me

[neat needle]

Oops sorry I thought it was turned off

[stable tundra]

all g

[stable storm]

has arc duo+ Lear done leon yet?

[spark idol]

Dude I'm so upset she sync crit my Cynthia and steven Lillie were unable to finish

[formal matrix]

@snow spruce it’s possible

Just have to give up on sync turn one idea, and turn denial left side

[neat needle]

Yo I did it thanks Gakon

Anything else I can do with my teams?

[shrewd marten]

the arc duo has done all of them

[stable tundra]

The same advice still applies

[neat needle]

Kk

[gentle wharf]

Bloody Kukui

Wasn’t expecting that

[warm haven]

i believe we finally got the hail UB

there's no way alolan ninetales doesnt have it

[river prawn]

It must be steel or poison weak

Those types don't have weather setters

[warm haven]

raihan

[fringe stratus]

Probably steel weak and catered towards sandstorm

Esp coming off of anni’s broken steel types

[warm haven]

yeah, steven has sandstorm inmunity too

[paper mural]

Oh finally can see how NC Red + Irida perform in a hail ub!

Unless it's Argenta level and beat it under hail isn't actually hard.

[dim lance]

what mon does MR have anyway

idt hail itself punishes that much

unless it comes with a lot of DR for Red or something

in which case he risks exploding if MR is Ice also

[hearty cedar]

Its not the hail itself that could dmg red but also the zone that irida sets up

Ninetales will surely have hail related passives unlike thorton

If its bulk related then maybe it'd be safe. If its offense related then maybe ssac can save the run

[warm haven]

crit inmunity under hail + screens for aurora veil gaming

[hearty cedar]

You know what....this could actually happen

Bcuz lillie's sunsteel strike has p.blows effect

[warm haven]

well for red depends on how hard MR hits because his bmove has PBs too

[hearty cedar]

2 free solgaleos exists so they can actually pull that

[hearty cedar]

If crit immunity is with passives then its safe. If crit immunity is with crit shield then all teams will suffer

[warm haven]

yeah they could have all 3 screens

[hearty cedar]

Aurora veil is literally both screens combined so she doesnt need the other 2

Veil + crit shiled = unfair combo

[eternal yacht]

Can Noland be done with all three arc units? Mine are at Arc Cyn 3/5 and the other two 1/5. Sorry to disturb midst the convo

[hearty cedar]

Idk much about that comp

So I cant help

[warm haven]

it's very possible yeah

but lance would need initial guard LS

[eternal yacht]

Alright , what's the general gist of it if you don't mind ?

[formal matrix]

I did it at higher levels. For 3/5 Cynthia it is kinda risky

[lunar sedge]

Here

[eternal yacht]

Ah alright thanks! So I'm assuming I should put lance at tactics 1 and let him eat the fissure?

[formal matrix]

Yes if you want to do it with arc trio, that should work. But I don’t think 3/5 Cynthia is enough to pull it over with other 2 1/5 arc trio

[eternal yacht]

I'll try a couple times

Thanks for the help

[rich heron]

What's the weakness?
Steel?

[lunar sedge]

we don't know

Incin is iconic to MR but all the weaknesses are taken

[craggy wind]

Steel or Poison

But i think steel more likely

[lunar sedge]

Yeah a few of the pokemon here are weak to steel so it's likely

[paper mural]

#datamines message
He uses ANinetail according to this picture.

[snow spruce]

spicy UB

[rotund oasis]

fire or steel weak?

[dark dust]

Steel most probably

Thorton is already Fire weak

[lunar sedge]

Steel is more likely

[rotund oasis]

poison could be good too

[lunar sedge]

I hope not lol

[snow spruce]

steel-weak UB with hail ?
literally built and made for Arc Duo

[hearty cedar]

Steel team be like

[lunar sedge]

Wait hail?

[hearty cedar]

Its not "made" for arc duo when arc cynthia is ice weak lol

[hearty cedar]

We are expecting hail

[lunar sedge]

Fuck typo

Meant to say what

Rose is like the only steel pair that can change weather right?

Without grid stuff

[snow spruce]

Not a problem, just like it wasnt on Thorton.
Arc Cynthia is the strongest possible weather partner for Steven right now, and can also do sandstorm many times

[hearty cedar]

Ik they'll clear. Its just that it wouldn't be "made" for arc cynthia

[river prawn]

Having hail in steel weak is weird anyways

Only Raihan can set sandstorm

[snow spruce]

Would be funny though if it doesnt have hail .. after all steel doesnt really have many good sand options, would be kinda awkward
That would make it TWO Ice UBs without hail lmao

[gentle wharf]

Might just be Ice Zone haha

[hearty cedar]

Well they are rerunning raihan....

[river prawn]

I can see that

[snow spruce]

if its only ice zone then Anni Lillie makes more sense yeah

could also finally be a zone version of Anabel/Nita

[hearty cedar]

Ice zone + crit blocking passive imo

[snow spruce]

If its only ice zone and not hail, then at least SSA Cynthia can overwrite it for the Ice Duo. Maybe thats enough, maybe not

[hearty cedar]

Well dena loves their weathers

[river prawn]

Welp

Maybe poison

[snow spruce]

huh

[river prawn]

Pawmot is Nemona UB through new BR update

What weakness though?

[spiral hare]

psychic probably

[snow spruce]

so we are getting info on several new UBs ? neat

[hearty cedar]

Fire team stocks rising

[river prawn]

Oooh yeah psychic terrain

Electric terrain dead lol

[spiral hare]

terrain and rebuff

[river prawn]

SST Red counter

[lunar sedge]

SS Lana chilling

[spiral hare]

and then mr is poison weak for poison/venom drenching

probably

[snow spruce]

so finally an UB where status is 100% required and not ignorable like on Leon .. this will filter out some teams

[river prawn]

Hail teams safe again

[lunar sedge]

oh thank god it's not geeta based

that's my biggest concern for poison UB

[river prawn]

Pawmot UB is going to be rough for many teams if electric terrain is radical on it

Only psychic and grassy terrain are viable options

[stone scarab]

or the old defog

[snow spruce]

so Masked Royal UB is poison weak and needs status + debuffs
Nemona UB has permanent Electric terrain

[river prawn]

And wants rebuff

[snow spruce]

well everything has rebuff now. its so easy

[fading walrus]

Wait there's 2?

[stone scarab]

Rally update

[lunar sedge]

one for BR

[craggy wind]

Nemona Psychic weak

[lunar sedge]

Nemona certainly gonna stink if you get a role bonus that lacks terrain

[craggy wind]

Masked Royal seems cheese easy

I have Geeta

Oleana

Already problem solved

[snow spruce]

Arc Duo + Avery can still do Nemona UB even if terrain is mandatory to remove
but I feel maybe it wont be too bad, because REQUIRING psychic or grass terrain is really limiting

[low coral]

Idt there's anything Pawmot is Electric, is there?

[lunar sedge]

having just Olena is already a lifesaver for MR UB

[stone scarab]

They made nita, they have no problem making these obnoxiously limiting.

[low coral]

And yeah, it's better not to assume when we don't even know the battle yet

[river prawn]

Nemona says her field effect is permanent

And psychic weak is psychic terrain

[lunar sedge]

inb4 fighting zone

[river prawn]

There is no way for psychic to overwrite terrain*

It's 100% ET

[paper mural]

So Ninetail is poison weak after all.

[gentle wharf]

Wait, get rid of their permanent field effect AND inflict status effect?

[river prawn]

Seemingly so

[snow spruce]

is there any unit with a kit that can do both status condition and set grassy/psychic terrain ?

[gentle wharf]

Yeah really looking like Poison then

[river prawn]

NC Rosa

Has teeter dance

Scrap that

She has no terrain

[snow spruce]

teeter dance is not status condition

[river prawn]

Pawmot wants status change

Ninetales wants status condition

[snow spruce]

I'm trying to think of a unit that can counter both at once

😛

[river prawn]

SS Lyra

[snow spruce]

for the whole 13/13 UBs thing

SS Lyra doesnt have status condition, does she ?

[fading walrus]

Pawmot wants status change

[river prawn]

I mean as a Nemona counter

[dim lance]

Eventually whole ubs will be a dream... Ish

[spiral hare]

? isnt argentas rain/terrain also called "permanent"

[fading walrus]

So trap/confusion works

[paper mural]

I mean if she didn't hit hard you don't really need to worry.

[spiral hare]

or am i misreading the convo

[snow spruce]

anyway we kinda have to hope that Pawmot is still reasonably killable even with ignoring its E.T. . like rain Argenta and now sun Anabel
otherwise F

[paper mural]

Sun Anabel is NOT reasonably killable under sun without that one team.

[snow spruce]

she would be, its jsut that Arc Cynthia and Ice team automatically remove her sun (and Argentas rain too)

But ofc its better if she is more like rain Argenta and not sun Anabel

[fast pendant]

We don't have evidence she would be, let's not act like this pls

[snow spruce]

So at mimimum (probably) all teams without status condition get filtered out by the Ice tails/Masked Royal. Unless this is gonna be the first instance of bruteforcing an x3 def/spdef UB
Pawmot is TBD

[stable tundra]

Oh we are getting 2 new UBs this time?

[paper mural]

BR update will have 2 new ubs but we're only getting one in the lifetime area next month.

[fast pendant]

This wouldn't be the first instance of brute forcing 3x 'tho

[rotund oasis]

which ubs are we getting? o.o

[river prawn]

Same case as datamined Lucy and Palmer UBs

[rotund oasis]

for br

[warm haven]

thorton has been bruteforced by several special teams

Still depends on inmunities/atk stats too see which pairs get filtered

[snow spruce]

Thorton doesnt have permanent x3 to both def & spdef (he wasnt cleared without disabling that passive). Thats not the same

I dont remember if Lucy had that x3 def/spdef passive and if she was bruteforced or not. But Lucy is a joke anyway

[warm haven]

60% of his hps is x3 spdef and fairy and flying team beat it with no problem

[river prawn]

40% of his hp is it not?

[snow spruce]

Thats still not the same as the entire fight from t1 being triple both defences

[river prawn]

He changes at 60%

[snow spruce]

not remotely

[river prawn]

But he starts at spdef weak right

I forgot

[snow spruce]

Yeah .. at first you deal full special damage, then later you deal full Physical dmg

[low coral]

Thorton essentially only has 392,700 HP when the reduced special damage starts

With sides not being affected by it

[warm haven]

that's more than lucy

[low coral]

But Lucy's a joke

Red's EBE had more HP than her

[warm haven]

it's more because of their atk stats, thats why argenta is a joke too

you can basically stall them

[snow spruce]

Its still weird that are now 2 UBs with Ice mons and neither has hail. Why does DeNA fear putting a hail UB ?

[warm haven]

MR doesnt have hail?

[paper mural]

It's poison weak most likely.

[river prawn]

No he is poison weak

[snow spruce]

we dont know but from the current passives its tailored for status condition, debuffs and likely for poison teams .. so unlikely to have hail

[river prawn]

Hail UB should have been a rock weak UB

The remaining types aren't weather heavy

So that is why

[paper mural]

Steel weak is reasonable too.

[low coral]

Unlikely

There's barely any Steel pairs that set sand

Besides what, Raihan and Rose?

And you would force Rose to not even use his Steel max

[warm haven]

many of them are immune to sand

[snow spruce]

Yeah, but they are the ones who made it like this. Thorton is fire weak and could have been the one with Hail, makes sense for fire pairs to overwrite him with sun
Instead now they "skipped" hail UB twice

[warm haven]

agrenta shouldnt have been weather related being grass weak

and terrain is basically irrelevant

[stable tundra]

Terrain was designed for Bulu

[paper mural]

I mean they have time to make a steel type favors sandstorm before steel ub comes lol.

[warm haven]

arc steven is prepared to be used with sandstorm too

MR is also asking for speed debuff that's mostly ground related

ground and electric

[stable tundra]

I can see MR is being poison weak

Wait nvm

I misunderstood your intention

[river prawn]

It's begging for Venom drench

[rotund oasis]

poison weak 😮

[dark dust]

So Oleana. Got it

[warm haven]

well that too

[paper mural]

Or EX Janine lol.

[stable storm]

do we know anything about the new ub

[gentle wharf]

Scroll up lol

[paper mural]

Currently only thing we saw is this:
#1009557516369281075 message

[lunar sedge]

Poison type
Oleana gaming

[gentle wharf]

Hmm wait does Oleana debuff speed? I forget

[snow spruce]

she does, -3 per turn

[snow spruce]

Did you make a video of this Arc Trio Noland clear? by any chance ?

[snow spruce]

Weakness: Poison
NPC Middle 1-1: 585200 HP (The Royal - pm0038_61_akyukon)
4032 Attack
83 Defense
4032 Sp. Atk
83 Sp. Def
67 Speed

        Passive 6: No Status Cond: Defense & Sp. Def ×3
        Passive 7: Robust Physique
        Passive 8: No Status Cond: P-Moves, S-Moves, & Max Moves ↑ 5
        Passive 9: T-Move: Team Remove Status Cond 9
        Passive 10: 1st Time 70% HP: Team Remove Status Cond
        Passive 11: Fainting Cleanse

NPC Right 2-1: 261800 HP
NPC Left 3-1: 261800 HP

https://pastebin.com/7z355K6Q

Seems not doable without status condition

[low coral]

Oof, 4k offenses again

[snow spruce]

Passive 13: 1st Time 70% HP: Team 5 Stats ↑2
Passive 14: Sharpened Body 5
Passive 15: Sharpened Mind 5
Passive 16: Speed ↑: Moves ↑ 5
Passive 17: Brawn Sync 5
Passive 18: Brain Sync 5
Passive 19: Speedster’s Sync 5

[low coral]

Opens with Triple Axel as well for those who wanted to use Initial Guard or even Endurance, to a lesser extent

[lunar sedge]

Team cleanse huh

[rotund oasis]

hrm. so basically... geeta?

[low coral]

And not stunnable?

[snow spruce]

Oleana and geeta

[rotund oasis]

geeta can 100% poison with one move

[snow spruce]

No resilience listed, so probably not stunnable

seems pretty easy with reapplicable statuses + debuffs
and a nightmare without

[low coral]

Sounds kinda wild

But he's not too bulky, at least

[rotund oasis]

4k offenses though orz.

i kinda want to bring ball guy in

[stable storm]

4k offense again huh

[low coral]

Also, both Meganium and Primarina buff Atk, SpA, and Spe when they hit

So not even just on the endurance

[stable storm]

@snow spruce how does the ub buff stats other than the endure

[stable storm]

oh

how bulky are the sides

[low coral]

X Speed All on move 2 for mid

[stable storm]

are they nightmares like Nita

[low coral]

261.8k

[rotund oasis]

wew. .

[low coral]

Robust Physique + no status condition x3

[stable storm]

geez

[rotund oasis]

do they have lessen poison 9?

or 5?

[stable storm]

do sides attack often

[low coral]

I think 8

Yes

Move 1 and 2 are both attacks on both sides

[stable storm]

...

seems a bit annoying

[rotund oasis]

so actual oleana required?

well that sucks.

[stable storm]

we got evelynn but status and speed drops huh

[rotund oasis]

i'm thinking of geeta and bll guy, but got nothing for the support.

[stable storm]

well at least it's not nitw

inb4 nemona ends up being worse than nita

[rich heron]

Any info on new UB?

[lunar sedge]

Starting here #1009557516369281075 message

[rich heron]

Geeta can poison every move

[river prawn]

That is very harsh on status conditions

[low coral]

I think we might've gotten to the big filter once we get the Nemona battle info

[warm haven]

[rich heron]

Rip my Geeta is just 1/5

[river prawn]

Even Oleana can't easily reapply poison

Geeta + Oleana

[low coral]

Not just the status, but having all debuffs too

[warm haven]

again with the endure cleanse

[river prawn]

Didn't expect Poison to be so rigid

[snow spruce]

a bunch of good status pairs can only do guaranteed AoE status ONCE .. =/

[lunar sedge]

The cleanse feels like a punch on the gut

[river prawn]

That is the thing

[boreal abyss]

Rough UB on its way it seems

[stable storm]

tbf it is a strong type

[warm haven]

ok but it's not that much hp, blue+red+silver should be able to do it

[stable storm]

What all ub clear comps will be dying

I assume ice will be fine

because Chase

will flying die

poison will thrive ofc

Water I think also dies?

[warm haven]

yeah the status gimmick is more serious here

[fast pendant]

I'm not sure ice will be fine, let's see how long they can survive if it's that offensive focused

if they're special dmg focused would help a lot

but physical would be without any dmg reduction

[snow spruce]

this look about right ?

[fast pendant]

why are you doing this rn

we have no idea

[snow spruce]

? we have the datamine and passives

its jsut an early guess

[dim lance]

UB details are out