Extreme, Ultimate & Challenge Battles

[snow spruce]

also I tried Leon with Arc Duo + SS Lear and keeping Lear alive from the fire sync was a pain even with the circle DR. You probably want to have 100+ HP on gear for him as well
Its definitely doable ofc, but having Lear at 2/5 doesnt help. Will try again after mine is at 3/5. Unless someone does it before then

[stable storm]

I wish I could give you my gears and temporarily give 5/5 Lear so you could help Lear finally achieve his birthright

[snow spruce]

did do Palmer at least

so only Leon left

[shrewd marten]

I thought u guys said u can’t do nita smh

[lone bramble]

Can you please elaborate why? PMUN stacking?

[snow spruce]

@fast pendant can you post the Nita clear video with SS lear too later?
Genuinely want to see how that was done

[uncut drum]

Is he even possible? No status, and Lear is fire weak

[slow sky]

luckily Leon's sync damage does not go up if there is no field eff I think

cos I made him hit 60% hp endure right before he syncs

unintentional but a clear is a clear

Lear and Arc Steven is really good tgt ngl

[wicked jacinth]

Whats the easiest ultimaye battle

[stable tundra]

Lucy is considered the easiest

[faint creek]

don't need arc suit characters when you all can just auto win with Will ecks dee

[fading walrus]

On the contrary, pmun itself is less valuable on a unit that has constantly +3 pmun

But multiplicative % effect like rebuff, team enhancing passives and circle on top of her own zone and pmun have crazy effects

[lone bramble]

So stacking multipliers other than the one's already on her kit?

[steady roost]

two ultimate battles i was finally able to beat thanks to the help of ss lear . both were super close cause it all came down to being able to tap the final move before the opponent.

[lone bramble]

what's the sync order vs Palmer?

[steady roost]

steven -> lear -> lillie.

[snow spruce]

absolutely yeah

[river prawn]

Lear can survive first sync

the rest is a matter of keeping up sandstorm/ground zone

[snow spruce]

yeah, only move dmg.
Leon:
Unaffected by Field Effect: Moves ↑ 5: Powers up the user's moves when it is not affected by a field effect
No Status Cond: P-Moves, S-Moves, & Max Moves ↑ 5: Powers up the user's moves, sync move and max move when it is not affected by a status condition

[river prawn]

Another sand Nita clear

This time with a 1/5 Oleana

[fast pendant]

https://youtu.be/rVIlbuB991A?si=A4pSuO7UwkxE4mRh

[novel fog]

Can anyone replace Geeta in a clear against Leon with 3/5 EXR SS Morty and 3/5 EXR NC Leaf?

[river prawn]

Even more impressive that it is not a perfect run

[river prawn]

And who is the third?

[stable tundra]

They are looking for the third pair that not named Geeta

[river prawn]

Well first that come to mind are electric pairs

SST Red, who the stage is intended for

[stable tundra]

Geeta is for guaranteed status condition, so you want to look for someone that inflicts status reliably

[river prawn]

But using 2 sun pairs is already risking it

Even more, Leaf and Morty are not reliable burners

[novel fog]

Yeah I guess, I do have 3/5 SS Hilda but that fire team clear is not looking very simple

[river prawn]

Morty would die very fast

[novel fog]

My electric roster is awful, I don't really have any other options

I have very few at a proper move level

[river prawn]

Chase is worth considering

[novel fog]

Even at 1/5?

I have 1 candy at the moment but reserving it for KriSS

[river prawn]

No idea, I think it depends on the other pairs

Irida NC Red?

[novel fog]

No Irida, I do have NC Red tho

[slow sky]

Can consider colress, but not sure how well can he survive tho for status infliction

But he has go viral and can grid his thunder wave to have 100% acc

[novel fog]

Is NC Rosa laughable for this?

Even when her accuracy is buffed?

[river prawn]

Accuracy?

Why that in particular

Leon is immune to sleep, flinch and such so it's not a good matchup for Rosa

[novel fog]

Sing is 45 acc

Oh

Makes sense then

[river prawn]

Usually Rosa runs troublemaker ls for when she uses sing

So accuracy is not a problem

[novel fog]

Ah I see

[river prawn]

Leon is weak to para, he only has resistance 7

So he gets parad quite frequently

[stable tundra]

How about Volkner? He has good self sustainability

[novel fog]

Base Volkner or NY?

[river prawn]

Volkner covers all the gimmicks for Leon

Base

But he is very rng

[novel fog]

Uh oh

[stable tundra]

Yeah 50% is annoying, not too bad but rng may fail you

[river prawn]

You would want ET mprs and frequent thunder frang paralyis procs

Well it depends what partners he has

Like with electric pairs the rng goes down

Because Leon is killed fast

[novel fog]

I have cElesa

if it helps?

[river prawn]

The longer it takes you, the more rng it becomes

[stable tundra]

What move level is she?

C Elesa is great

[novel fog]

1/5

[stable tundra]

But she 100% relies on sync nuke

Oops, but at least she can help NC Leaf

100% paralysis on demand is great

[river prawn]

I am afraid there is no side clear then

[stable tundra]

Now you only have to worry about the survivability of the whole team

[river prawn]

If you use C Elesa NC Leaf

[novel fog]

Hmmmm

[stable tundra]

Yeah, that's another concern

[novel fog]

SS Lear?

[stable tundra]

I don't think it's a good idea

[river prawn]

Fire weak is bad

[stable tundra]

He is Fire weak and Morty has sun

[slow sky]

SS Lear cannot survive a sun boosted sync

[novel fog]

Oh, right

[river prawn]

He can survive with Steven but that is another story

[slow sky]

Without sun he alrd took a considerable amt of dmg

[river prawn]

Leon is considered the 2nd hardest UB for a reason, it's annoying to cover all his gimmicks

And he is immune to any form of staggering

[novel fog]

Is a status condition a must? I've seen a couple clears without it

[slow sky]

Yes

[river prawn]

Wtz is more of a must

[slow sky]

He hits harder without status also iirc

[river prawn]

Status condition is not but you really have to have a broken team

[stable tundra]

Having a status condition makes Leon a lot easiler

[stable tundra]

Correct

[novel fog]

Does confusion count?

Or it is interference

[river prawn]

And piercing blows pairs hit through robust physique

[stable tundra]

It's a status change

[slow sky]

He is immune to crit without status also

[novel fog]

[slow sky]

Unless u have piercing blows

[novel fog]

I could try SS Mina/NC Serena/Mix Leaf

Or thats a bad idea as well?

[stable tundra]

No one has tried that team yet, so no clue

[river prawn]

Bruteforcing Leon without status takes some serious pairs and investments that you don't have I think, you struggle to make a normal team with status

[stable tundra]

But 3 non extended rain uses don't sound good

[river prawn]

The Dahlia version has done it iirc

Dahlia, NC Serena SS Mina

[paper mural]

Dahila extends rain.

[novel fog]

Don't have her sadly

[river prawn]

Fairy team has also bruteforced him

[novel fog]

My Wally is 1/5

[river prawn]

Flying too

[novel fog]

I wish I couldve refunded the candies I gave to SS Korrina

[river prawn]

But it relied on a confusion self hit I think

SS Mina, NC Cheren Anni Skyla

[novel fog]

Cheren is also 1/5, I just have way too many techs to candy

Been using omni candies as well to just blitz through them

[river prawn]

It's not an easy clear to replicate anyways

[paper mural]

Fairy team bruteforce seems not easy tho. I don't think you'll want to replicate it.

[novel fog]

Or at least the relevant ones

[river prawn]

None of these are easy to replicate

I am just pointing out the bruteforce teams

That did it

And of course Arc Cynthia

Can do multiple teams without status

[paper mural]

SS Mina + Mix Leaf + a constant staus maybe? Just no brute force.

[novel fog]

At what move level should c Elesa be able to clear this?

[river prawn]

Power play unlocked

[novel fog]

so 5/5

[river prawn]

Which is 5/5

[slow sky]

Oof

[stable tundra]

She needs a dps partner more tbh

Who also handles sides pretty well

[novel fog]

I will be able to get my Cynthia to 3/5 in 21 days from now

If she's viable

I might just leave Leon for now and go back to Nita

Its just those two that I haven't beaten yet

[paper mural]

If you're gonna get Cynthia just waif for her ig. No need to rush to clear ubs anyway.

[novel fog]

I don't really rush them, just asking out of curiosity if I have the units to clear, cause I couldn't replicate any of the teams on the doc

But yeah I guess it comes down to electric units at the end of the day

[snow spruce]

3/5 RKS Cynthia is viable for everything.
just pair her with something that can do AoE status (ideally more than once) and you're good
but also they or the support should some extra WZT to compliment Cynthias WZT
OG volkner + 3/5 Arc Cynthia should work tbh, just hope for good para rng. I think its even fine if the sides arent paralyzed at all times, just Leon is the main one

[river prawn]

C Elesa 1/5 would suffice

In that comp

[snow spruce]

oh yeah

SS Mina as the tank then maybe ? if no steven/blue

[novel fog]

1/5 Steven

[river prawn]

I mean SS Morty would be fine too, you overwrite sun quickly

[novel fog]

Should have his EXR by the time Cynthia will be 3/5

[snow spruce]

1/5 steven is good yeah, c.elesa provides the debuffs. Although Mina does have the extra WZT, there IS a chance you might run out towards the end without Cynthias Dustkicker.

[novel fog]

Then it comes down to SS Morty/SS Mina/AS Steven

And probably Mina over Morty

[snow spruce]

Yeah. Try steven, if not then Mina
is mina 3/5 or 1/5 ?

[novel fog]

3/5

[boreal abyss]

[river prawn]

Time for more steel propaganda. With Irida they can do 9 out of 11, left are Noland and Leon

[warm haven]

really nice

cant wait to get a proper steel zone setter

[river prawn]

I am afraid however good the steel setter is, they will lack weather, so some of these will stay unclearable

[fast pendant]

One really nice thing about Steven and Lear is that you can use Steven double hs pretty comfortably

[river prawn]

same

[warm haven]

yess

[river prawn]

except when you need healing entry

but that is clear specific

[fast pendant]

I don't even have that LS on Steven

[snow spruce]

healing entry feels almost mandatory on leon to keep lear HP up

unless you get it on lears grid

[warm haven]

my steven is locked up in that LS , HS1 and AD1

[lone bramble]

Do you think I can beat Noland with SST, 1/5 Grusha and a Fly pair (none of mine are EXd or 3/5)?

[river prawn]

and if the enemy is flinchable, you can instaqueue b bullet punch after iron head

[stable tundra]

Lana works better

Lana + Falkner can work

Afaik you need at least an EX support

[lone bramble]

Neither are 3/5 or EXd for me

[stable tundra]

iirc you have 3/5 EXR Cerena?

Oh oops

What move level does Lana unlock Wide Guard MPR hmm

[lone bramble]

3/5

I only have 1/5 still

I guess its a no go

[stable tundra]

Yeah you should wait for her dupes

[lone bramble]

I bring mid down to about 60% with this setup. Everyone dies soon after.

[snow spruce]

9/11 is pretty good, I can add that team to my doc.
Noland is undoable, right ? (with this team)
Is Leon also undoable or just very very hard? Perhaps he can be doable after Irida gets Field EXR

[river prawn]

Noland is undoable 100%

But Leon with field Irida is a maybe yeah

[snow spruce]

I will put Noland at red and Leon at yellow then

[lone bramble]

This is best I'm able to do

[hearty cedar]

You mean morty, leaf and ss lear?

[hearty cedar]

Replace falkner with lana, this match would be easy

[lone bramble]

Mines only 1/5. That's the issue. Even Falkner here is 2/5 not EXd.

[hearty cedar]

Her grid is only for wide guard mpr

If you can finish the battle fast then you dont need it

Fissure = grusha's bmove
Eq = lana's wide guard

[lone bramble]

Alright let me try

[hearty cedar]

Totally, there will be 3 moves from noland that you can survive without issues

If that's not enough, then use sstr's max guard on turn 1 to shield lana from fissure

Then you should be able to survive 4 moves from noland

[lone bramble]

I'm gonna try the max guard strat with Falkner once. Seems like an surviving 1-2 more moves might be enough.

If not I'll try the Roxanne strat

[hearty cedar]

Ok

Better to try lana strat first

[lone bramble]

Got almost the same result

And for some reason Noland KOd Lana through Grusha's bmove

Or maybe I timed it wrong and it wasn't active

[hearty cedar]

Probably a timing issue

[lone bramble]

Fissure goes through wide guard?

[small basin]

Fissure isnt aoe

It's single target

So only damage guard/grusha’s b move can protect it

[lone bramble]

Wait I'm gonna record this. Cause this time I'm pretty sure Lana got KOd with Grusha bmove active.

At the start I go:

max guard, Dire Hit +, lana tm quad SST TM

Dire, water pulse, e terrain

[river prawn]

but Grusha is not the target

therefore the fissure isnt nullified

[fading walrus]

Grusha buddy isn't team wide

[river prawn]

It is teamwide if the attack is AoE

but if it is single target like fissure, Grusha must be the target of the attack

[fading walrus]

The user takes up a defensive posture. Using this move again will make the user leave this defensive posture, then attack. No other actions can be taken when in this defensive posture. Nullifies an attack move that targets the user or all allies while in this defensive posture, then the user leaves the defensive posture and attacks the target with double the power of this attack. Lowers the Attack and Sp. Atk of this attack’s target by 3 stat ranks.

user
OR ALL ALLIES

[lone bramble]

Gonna switch to Grusha tank

Gotcha thanks guys

Maybe a clear if I make it to this sync

[river prawn]

I don't see an active electric terrain

is your SST Red caked

[lone bramble]

Yeah Caked, all syncs were under terrain. I had lost this one anyway so

Roxanne can't survive more than 1 sync unfortunately. Fighting weak

Tried her as well

[river prawn]

yes Roxanne is worse than Lana

[lone bramble]

I needed her for wide guard mpr

[small vault]

I procrastinated doing Gio's and Evelyn's UBs for weeks, got it done quickly thanks to the pinned doc featuring which units that could counter them well
still in awe that 1/5 Akari is enough while my 3/5 Sc Zinnia carried

[fading walrus]

Why not use Lana?

[lone bramble]

She's 1/5, no mpr

[fading walrus]

Ah

F

[hearty cedar]

@lone bramble do you have ash?

[lone bramble]

Nope :((

So close yet so far

If only I could get Red's nuke multipliers

Any way I can get the damage up just a little? It's only 15% smh...

grid is haymaker, sync nodes, and all atk + volt tackle power up nodes

[rotund oasis]

careful on those uh endurances they have .-.;

[marble flume]

Those Poliwraths just ready to level a small town

[lone bramble]

doesnt volt tackle ignore Endurance?

[marble flume]

It does

[lone bramble]

maybe switching to a +80 atk bracelet will make the difference?

[fading walrus]

That 60 has +4% DPS and +2% sync tho

[lone bramble]

Enemy has lithe so +4 dps is wasted

[fading walrus]

Ah true

[lone bramble]

+20 atk for both dps and nuke should be better than 2% nuke maybe?

[fading walrus]

Yea

Definitely

[lone bramble]

Alright I'm gonna roll the bracelet and try again after a break

Hopeful

[spark isle]

Where do i see the pins again?

Found it

[shrewd marten]

Rei is talking about the damage benchmarks that are unavoidable

[marble flume]

Ah, my bad then

[stable tundra]

https://youtu.be/PYMDze_4_-8

[snow spruce]

wat

[hearty cedar]

? Your red is not 3/5?

[lone bramble]

He is, but cant activate static shock and cakewalk cause Lithe

[snow spruce]

This CANNOT be legal

[hearty cedar]

If I had yellow candies,I'd make the nate version

[hearty cedar]

I dont see anything wrong with it

[snow spruce]

the worst part is that Skinny will need to to do all these teams every month for every new UB

(unless it can be duo'd)

[earnest panther]

Aw, that's cute, Greta completing UBs. Anyways.

[hearty cedar]

Tbh, if she completes all the existing stages now then its just cycling other teams for every single new ub per month

That's better imo

[hearty cedar]

Lmao

[warm haven]

I will tell my kids this is a duo clear

[formal matrix]

With Greta the dps is enough to destroy noland. Now I expect ny Wallace next

[fading walrus]

Yeah lo and behold, a stagger unit working to enhance a broken duo

And with sync cd

[snow spruce]

tbf its because of Gretas defence debuffs I'm sure .. her own dps is ~negligible

for Noland

for Nita Greta is actually good, big speed debuffs

but basically Cynthia doesnt even need the 3-rd pair to do any relevant damage at this point

[sour elk]

Time for Arc Duo + Ramos to sweep UB

[warm haven]

Use clay to beat nita

[earnest panther]

Ramos will need 20/20 tbh

[snow spruce]

Nita with Arc Duo + Clay should be easy tbh

[formal matrix]

So, arc duo + og Nemona. Nemona has damage guard next effect on her TM. Trip up 9 in grid. Paralysis. And sync rush.

[river prawn]

Eggmon Dugtrio

There are many pairs who they could do Nita with

5/5 Rei, 5/5 Raihan, any bulldozer or icy wind user

As long as you can make them survive a sand buffed sync

[snow spruce]

yeah should work

are there any more pairs that have damage guard on TM/grid instead of a Max guard move?

[river prawn]

Ny Wallace technically has AoE damage guard

All the protect pairs

Variety Lorelei has tripping strike 1

And Summer Acerola has initial guard + trip up 4

[formal matrix]

And people just ignore the actually OP third, like arc duo + ss Mina

[snow spruce]

I think if you are using SS Mina then it's better to use her as the main support and see if you can replace Steven
probably ~Oleana as 3-rd

[river prawn]

SS Mina on Nita

Pretty good guess actually

[formal matrix]

SS Mina + arc Cynthia + third for all UB?

What does the third need? Just status and debuff right?

[river prawn]

Oleana

[snow spruce]

with Evelyn now you NEED spAtk debuffs

[river prawn]

But Palmer and Noland become more of a problem without Arc Steven

[river prawn]

In the sense that you need some damage dealer

[snow spruce]

Palmer is not a problem at all
Steven is generally mid on Noland
Nita and Evelyn and maybe Gio would be the issues without Steven

but Oleana kinda solves them all

.. except she is weak to ground =/

huh Variety Lorelei actually looks great for the Arc Duo.

[deep drift]

In UB, for Arc Steven + Cynthia at both 1/5, what are the stages that CAN be cleared? (I cleared Lucy only so far xD)

I saw someone say Darach was manageable, but I couldn't do it with his damn heals...

[river prawn]

What was your third pair

[deep drift]

It's really up for open, but Cynthia I usually pair w Bertha (the extra dmgs for the stone needles are nice).

I also have... Lance or Lear also at 1/5.

And then a SS Steven but he does not go well w Cynthia.

[river prawn]

Did you beat Lucy

She is the easiest

[deep drift]

Yeah I beat her.

w Steven Cynthia and someone else (i dont remember)

[river prawn]

Darach is a matter of some good flinches and spacing out wtz/stealth rocks

But Argenta can be more comfortable

[deep drift]

arc cynthia ss lear and arc steven seem really good team for completing all(if not most) but with 1/5

it might be a stretch.

[snow spruce]

you should beat Darach with Arc Duo and Bertha, jsut space out the sandstorms

also maybe sync with Bertha later on

over Cynthia

[river prawn]

I don't think the Bertha in question would be invested

[deep drift]

Why would anyone do that? What does Bertha's sync do

[snow spruce]

if Bertha is 3/5 EX

[deep drift]

Oh don'thave her at 3/5 anyways so .. yeah

[river prawn]

Damage

[snow spruce]

3/5 EX Bertha will nuke Darach harder than 1/5 Cynthia

[deep drift]

ahh

yeah bertha i just recently got too so even having her at all was luck

I guess UBs really need 3/5 for most of them.

[snow spruce]

otherwise jsut use whatever best pair you have that has WZT + damage
for Darach

[deep drift]

wzt meaning?

[river prawn]

Weather zone terrain

[rigid hare]

i have 3/5 avery, i lack 3/5 on the others tho

otherwise i would've tried

[snow spruce]

Skinny already did 11 UBs with Arc Duo + Avery

[warm haven]

Me stuck with 2/5 lear

[rigid hare]

wow

[shrewd marten]

NO fucking way

Greta confirmed top tier weeeeeze

[spice swift]

Is 3/5 Arc Cynthia with EXR and Arc Steven clearable for any UBs except Latios and Arbok

[uncut drum]

If your Steven is 4/5 they can clear pretty much all of them if you have a good third pair to add for them

[spice swift]

I only have 1/5 Arc Steven unfortunately

[uncut drum]

You can probably do Argenta with a third as long as you don't sync with both Cynthia and Steven to keep rebuff

[spice swift]

I do have 3/5 NCB with EXR though

Perhaps that would help?

[uncut drum]

Yeah. Bianca should be helpful here

Just save her B-move to below half

I'm not sure if they clear but it might be possible

[spice swift]

Blue

[uncut drum]

Oh Blue

Even better

Just don't sync with Blue until below half

[spice swift]

Aight I'll try that out and see if I can clear anything

Maybe I should also 3/5 Adaman and see if that helps with any UBs

Somehting that's probably way overdue anyway

[rigid hare]

Once mine will be 5/5, ill try another battle against UB Argenta

[uncut drum]

3/5 Adaman directly counters Argenta so he's gonna be helpful

[snow spruce]

how about bullying Nita with Arc Duo + (20/20) Clay

[grand herald]

Why are these UBs so mind numbingly hard? I copy grids and videos to a T and still get smoked. Have not beaten a single one. Whar's the point of having these if not everyone can do them?

[earnest panther]

These battles are a combination of skill, Gears, and having the correct counters to take on the battles. Just because you copy another user's strat doesn't mean it will work consistently.

Ex. I could not use the NC red and Irida combo for Giovanni's UB because I was not understanding the gimmick with gio's battle and hitting the threshold too early. I had to use a completely different setup to beat it.

[lone bramble]

Mid was at -1 defense, a couple more DC2 procs is all I need

Checked on pomatools, and a legit just need -2 defense and it's done

[stable tundra]

just a little more

[lone bramble]

Yes! It's winnable!

[lone bramble]

YES YES YES FINALLY!!!

1/5 EXR Grusha (DC2), 3/5 EXR SST (CS2), 1/5 Lana (DC2)

Can't believe I actually cleared this!!

Ofc I couldn't have done it without all the help I got here. Thanks so much, everyone who helped!!

[stable tundra]

congrats!

if you are willing to, you can redo the clear, record and submit it to the UB doc

[lone bramble]

I recorded it first time around

Tysm, Gakon!!

I had so much fun trying to clear this UB. You were right, it's sort of like a puzzle you need to figure out.

[stable tundra]

yup, it's a well designed puzzle

[rich heron]

Replacement for grusha?

[lone bramble]

Did someone ping me?

[rich heron]

I was asking for video
But then I realised I don't have grusha

[lone bramble]

Oh it's okay

[stable tundra]

i believe the usual Falkner + Lana core works

but you need at least an EX support

and they are at least 3/5, ofc

[rich heron]

I have both 3/5
Falkner is exed

Lana not

[lone bramble]

Do you have Cerena?

SST would also work. Wide Guard (with some mprs) for Earthquake, Fly for Fissure.

[rich heron]

I have 1/5 cerena

[lone bramble]

Both Cerena and SST need 3/5

[rich heron]

Sst is 3/5

[stable tundra]

i believe both need EXR too

[rich heron]

Both are ex roled

[lone bramble]

Give it a try. Falkner, Lana, SST could work. Give both supports DC2 and hope it procs often.

[grand herald]

Is there a ranking of how hard each UB like easist to hardest?

[paper mural]

Not really. You can use how many teams clear each stages for a reference.

Generally most ppl will agree Lucy is the easiest and Nita is the hardest, but every other ubs in between don't have clear ranking.

[rich heron]

Defense crush?

[lone bramble]

Yeah

[pearl pewter]

another one

[rotund oasis]

https://vxtwitter.com/sa5428821926077/status/1837544508235698417

4/5 ss lear, 3/5 arc steven and 5/5 steel anni lilie

[dim lance]

That's fast, wut

[rotund oasis]

3 syncs lulz

[warm haven]

isnt that NC red levels of sync?

[valid raft]

Is that with or without zone?

[fading walrus]

That's -2 rebuff -6 Spdef with innate and +60% passive stack on top of circle

[fading walrus]

That's with

[fading walrus]

Considering red is a striker sync...

[warm haven]

red still has one of the highest AoE syncs tho

[fading walrus]

Yeah and he's incredibly held back by his role

[warm haven]

nah, he's built around that. Dena gives the pairs the roles they want to get the desired range

[fading walrus]

Eh

The point is

Red has much lower BP but irida shoots him to the sky

But still, it's not surprising at all people can outnuke him

Iirc Ariana can outnuke him

Just saying

[low coral]

Red wouldn't have as many multipliers if he was a Tech or Sprint

[fast pendant]

He has as many multipliers due to thar

And it's not any essy for ppl to outnuke hi

But yeah, steel dmg and acceleration is quite insane

[warm haven]

yeah that's what i meant

red nuke is insane being a striker + tech

while brycen man has a 2020 striker sync while being a tech + striker

they have only what dena wants

[river prawn]

This was done a few hours after SS Lear released

[snow spruce]

Has the full steel team Steven-Lear-Lillie also done Nita? I forgot. Lillie has speed debuffs, so it should work?
Also can they do Noland?
obv not Anabel and I think this is also a case where Leon is harder than Nita/Noland, due to not enough WZT uptime

[river prawn]

Lillie is ground weak

[snow spruce]

doesnt mean its not doable. Fire-weak Lear can (barely) survive Leons HeatWaves and sync

[stable tundra]

The problem is that Lillie's bulk is not as good as Lear's

[snow spruce]

although I guess Nita has sand blaster 9 here, thats too much

[stable tundra]

And iirc Nita has higher atk stat than Leon's

[stable tundra]

Her sync alone is enough to send Lillie to shadow realm

[river prawn]

Her speed debuffs also aren't enough

[fast pendant]

Yeah 1 st is hell

[snow spruce]

so -Anabel -Nita -Leon, not sure about Noland (but I would guess no, you need that huge damage burst to take off the last 50% and do this while also losing Steven turn 1)
So like 7/11 UBs, still pretty good for a team with a freebie unit

[fast pendant]

I think Noland might be possible

[snow spruce]

(I'm assuming rain Argenta is doable too for them, Steven + high damage combo is enough)

[fast pendant]

They have hella lot of sync acceleration

[warm haven]

yeah

they will have to sync post 50% if they want to win

[snow spruce]

speaking of Steel team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXvz-NfujXQ

[neat needle]

Why was this so hard

Bertha was the hardest for no reason

Wasnt even max score

[stable tundra]

#1009554906568462476 is the right channel, although making a personal thread in #1010274591601598555 is better

[snow spruce]

btw if Arc Duo + SS Lear were able to clear Nita - what stops the full Arc Trio from doing the same ?

if they can do Nita then they should also reach 11/11 UBs

[fading walrus]

Well the fact lance doesn't particularly enhance Cynthia is definitely a factor

[low coral]

Well, the team is worse in almost every aspect

You both take more damage and deal less

[shrewd marten]

Lance is just a beat stick

Though it wouldn’t be impossible I suppose

The problem with it is Cynthia just wants a gimmick clearer

Lance does zero gimmick

[low coral]

They're comparing it specifically to SS Lear on Nita

Who doesn't check her gimmicks either

[snow spruce]

I guess Lance just spamming giga impacts is not that great.
And without syncing he can only get 1 SMUN from Let’s Get Serious!: Power Combo 9 .. 1 SMUN is nothing for his B-move
its pretty limiting that the only way to stack SMUNs by himself is by syncing. He basically wants a Dragon version of NC Blue (with zone instead of rebuffs) for his ideal support

[snow spruce]

Yes, for Nita. Lance actually has (30%) paralysis for Leon and a dmg guard for Noland

[peak mist]

good third for VS the new fairy weak UB?

[peak mist]

Prob best gear I can get this duo for rn

Incase gear effects what tank I get recommended

[shrewd marten]

he also has sync +2 muns

i think

thats what ropal said

[formal matrix]

After getting both Lance and SS Lear to their best power level, I think Lear is just a better unit. The arc suits are above master fairs argument is simply not going to work (probably even for future)

[low coral]

Lear is 100% better than Lance, yeah

I was feeling he would be even with a 20% passive, and then they gave him 40%

[formal matrix]

I feel when they design Lance they intentionally hold him back

Like design his multipliers in a way that when he reaches his max his damage level is slightly above other master fairs but not exceeding that much

[snow spruce]

Arc suits arent automatically above Masterfairs, only Cynthia and Steven are
its a kit by kit basis

[formal matrix]

Nah I would assume so based on the enhanced scout points before reading the kit 💀

[shrewd marten]

they probably didnt want another ash

ss lear they may have overtuned because pasio units are rare and usually suck

i dont know why they went to40% though thats so high

and by pasio i mean pasio solidarity

that shits hard to trigger with how sparse the units are

[warm haven]

they dont want another ash but they only release special electric units since then

[buoyant ice]

automatically no, grided yeah imo.

Having free OP grids tiles at 0 energy cost

is kinda bonkers

[stable tundra]

https://youtu.be/EZjbbz28D8A

This gotta be my favorite UB clear recently

2 1/5 limiteds + a 5/5 free event pair

[shrewd marten]

It has quick tempo

But also damn that’s an impressive clear

1/5 poppy slaps

[small vault]

omg now i'm tempted to select Poppy

[naive lotus]

cleared my first UB! 🥳

[paper mural]

Imo Arc Lance is just not built with the other 2 arcsuits so comparing him in that comp specifically seems unfair.
But yeah I agree for some reason they held back his kit too much.

[warm haven]

Maybe his damage was limited by his great debuffing profile

It's unlimited - 6 on each defense

[snow spruce]

@low coral have you ever tried clearing all UBs with Ice team + NC Rosa?
Would Leon/Noland be doable?

[low coral]

Never tried

Noland might be doable, Leon only looks doable with Field EXR Irida

And even in that case, idk if you can survive down tk the Max Move without confusion on Flare Blitz

[snow spruce]

can Leon generally be considered the worst UB for the Ice team? (not counting the support, just the Ice duo themselves)

[warm haven]

hm i wonder if nc rosa + ss steven + avery could clear anabel like lear did

[low coral]

SS Steven already clears Anabel anyway, no?

[low coral]

That would be Thorton

No innate Defense or Attack drops for the core, no physical damage, and Thorton hits extra hard under zone, it already is basically trying to counter the core

The only benefit is that Red himself is strong vs Thorton, but Irida is bad

[warm haven]

yeah

iirc he has one with rosa and kriss

[snow spruce]

oh right, Thorton does Ice dmg, so he benefits from Ice zone. Forgot that
Ice arc with positive Ice rebuff would be handy there

funny that he still takes the Hail chip dmg though (right ?)

[river prawn]

The Lear/Avery/C Rosa team has done Thorton seemingly

[uncut drum]

https://youtu.be/ifUq3at-NcM?si=8nlStJlzElvtK_kr

Were these known? They did both Nita and Leon as well as brute forcing Argenta

[river prawn]

wtf

well it was posted 7 minutes ago

[uncut drum]

I meant if someone else did it already before they posted

[river prawn]

very much doubt

[snow spruce]

Huh, Nita and Leon and Rain Argenta done

[river prawn]

oh wow you can instaqueue iron head into iron head when flicnhing

that explains the Nita clear

[fast pendant]

[snow spruce]

so thats 7/11 from that player for Steel team, but Darach & Lucy are both doable (actually I wonder if Lillie has enough WZT duration for Darach, but probably yeah)
Anabel not doable, Noland idk

[river prawn]

they do Darach presync

[fast pendant]

yeah if they basically pre-sync nita, darach isn't an issue

[river prawn]

I tried Nita with these 3 and quickly gave up thinking it was impossible, well glad to be wrong

[fast pendant]

nita in sand you need to deny the sides to move as much as possible

but yeah, it's quite impressive

[low coral]

Darach should be doable even when you run out of Steel Zone tbh

[low coral]

As long as the targets change, yeah

Nita has a lack of TMs that aren't fully scripted, so she basically always allows that

[snow spruce]

@river prawn Do you have screenshots/videos of Steel teams (Steven-Lear-Lillie) Darach & Lucy clears? I think they might have been posted already, but not sure
I will add them to the list then, at 9 UBs

[river prawn]

I am pretty sure I didnt even screenshot those

because they were so easy

but there is this

[snow spruce]

oh yeah I remember, Lillie has PB, so she deals full damage to Leon w/o status. That helped

[warm haven]

to argenta too

hm i wonder if they can beat noland

[dim lance]

Tosakinto claims that he's successfully full cleared every single UB with Lear Avery (albeit with different third members)

[warm haven]

nice

ah nvm i read it wrong

[dim lance]

The video probably goes out tmr

[earnest panther]

I could see it

[eternal yacht]

2nd ever UB done , I was dumb to realize I needed to save Arc Cyn Sync after 50% HP but it's done

[high harbor]

I wonder why my oleana roxie combo isnt enough to kill evelyn

3rd member is nc rosa

[snow spruce]

surprised there still hasnt been a sand Nita clear with NC Blue. Ofc Steven is better, but still. Should be doable.
Guess no one wants to deal with 30% flinch rng. Also lack of endure hurts

[river prawn]

AoE flinch is bad

On Nita specifically

[sour elk]

I genuinely don't think it's possible with AoE flinch, resilience triggers at the same time for everybody and that gives you less extra turns

Unless a strong speed debuffer like NC Cheren tags along

[river prawn]

Should still be possible

But the variety of teams is much less than with Steven as support

[snow spruce]

I would imagine NC Blue - NC Cheren - Arc Cynthia is the first choice, that shouldnt be too bad. Followed by SST Red (instead of Cheren), the main issue there is Red being weak to Ground
maybe Dragapult Leon also ?
its definitely not possible with all the 8-9 teams that Arc Duo did
but so far we had 0, not even with Cheren

[true lagoon]

trying to make someone that can compete with ash but they failed

[snow spruce]

Arc Lance surpassed Ash in Ash's niche
his teammates are worse though

[shrewd marten]

Yeah that’s what I ruminated about

He’s the single target of all time but zerena has been powercrept long ago

[true lagoon]

its not even zerena its lucas being relatively bad for modern standards

[sour elk]

Lance can't even cope for Arc Dragon fixing his problems

Dragon SS Morty or a better Dragon Avery would be nice for him

[paper mural]

I think the biggest issue is that the whole dragon roaster is too focus on dmg (including Lance himself). They don't pack much utility to counter as much as UBs as possible that well.
Both Zerena and Lucas doesn't pack utility other than restrain / zone, NC Nate has zone + circle + can debuff st atk but that's it, no real fantastic support for ub standard, etc

[formal matrix]

Supports are ok to not be their type. The thing I think Lance lacks the most is an OP dragon zone setter. Lucas and nc Nate both have problems unfortunately.

[shrewd marten]

He needs a dragon sstr

That just does a million things

Enhance aoe zone

[paper mural]

If the goal is to clear all ubs they still lack weather change.
Where is our broken defensive hail support?

[formal matrix]

For all UBs, rain support is enough in term of changing weather.

[low coral]

B Thunderbolt is better than B Hyper Beam

[spark idol]

I don't have NC nate but I thought Lucas and Dia were really good

With free move next and dragon zone I thought he was fine

[stone scarab]

he's not bad, but he's not what you really want for a team a lot of the time

[formal matrix]

Lucas’ dps is kinda mid nowadays. Also his main purpose is providing zone. So he lacks gimmick check in ultimate battles. The dragon team not doing too much in UB is saying a lot

[stone scarab]

his offensive pressure isn't incredible, his zone is really the only utility he brings to a team

unless you go out of your way on his grid for the debuffing tiles

[formal matrix]

Well, Lucas’ debuffing tile is 50% to drop sp def by 1, which arc Lance doesn’t need

[paper mural]

ArcLance can definately do all ubs considering his dmg output. The thing is it's not the same team or at least the same duo so ppl won't think it's impressive.

[snow spruce]

Because Ash's innate multiplier is easier to fulfill? idk, maybe
but well, Lance still has -6 debuffs and a ton of rebuff (and much higher ST sync damage), so he is > Ash overall IMO .. and I mean he IS higher than Ash on the tier list too

[low coral]

The tier list I'm one of the authors?

I do think he's a better unit than Ash, but he's not better than Ash at doing Ash stuff, which is the B nuke

[snow spruce]

well for me "Ash stuff" = doing big ST damage (his sync is AoE, but its pretty mid dmg, so mostly his job is the ST damage focus)
and Lance is definitely better than Ash at doing ST dmg overall, isnt he? (arguably better than anyone in the game at that). His sync contributes a lot to it too, not just the 1 time B-move
and also Lance can stack SMUNs himself, even if it cat get janky at times. Its still way better than Ash needing to get into a pinch just to get 2 SMUNs
Overall I consider Lance equal or better than Ash at nearly everything tbh .. except teammates

[sour elk]

I thought +10 B Hyper beam was more or less equal to +7 B Thunderbolt (both with zone/terrain and rebuff)

Except that Ash can't get +7 as easily as Lance gets +10

[low coral]

And Lance often won't have the -6 Sp. Def if he goes for +10 SMUN

Heck, if you're fighting someone like Evelyn or Giovanni, you might not even have a Sp. Def debuff at all

[sour elk]

Okay yeah, in a real UB situation Lance will have those issues

[snow spruce]

Thats fair, hyper buffing enemies can screw Lance just like they screw Oleana, Roxie etc.

[sour elk]

Even Palmer is annoying in that aspect with his slight omnibuffs

[low coral]

Lance can be a better unit, a better mid killer, etc. But B Thunderbolt is very easily a superior move to B Hyper Beam, it's basically the same BP for a far superior condition

[sour elk]

I think Lance's Beam would peak higher with Chase + zone, he can also keep spdef in check

[low coral]

It can only peak higher if you go for SMUN stacking as well

Because their power difference at base favours Ash

Due to the considerable SpA gap

[paper mural]

Lance can easier do SMUN stack than Ash tho, if the opponents don't buff their spdef easily.

[sour elk]

But Lance can compress circle + zone due to bringing rebuff himself, I think that is more valuable already than the SpAtk difference

[snow spruce]

Lance offense stats really didnt need to be that low

[paper mural]

He can og hyperbeam first turn and never use another special move until BHyperbeam.

[low coral]

Almost no opponent never buffs Sp. Def

[snow spruce]

yeah you can expect +2 or +4 SpDef buffs later in the fight

or more

thats what a 'dragon nc blue' and a 'dragon SST red' would fix tho

[paper mural]

Chase can debuff spdef as well, so -4 or less isn't an issue for this team, but it requires 5/5 only and -1 every turns like Anabel is still an issue.

[sour elk]

It's the same as NC Red, it's not that bad

[low coral]

Also, that doesn't make Hyper Beam stronger

[sour elk]

He can break 600 Sp.Atk with gear and themes

[sour elk]

Not really no, it's getting into the territory of Lance being better as a unit rather than his nuke by itself being better

[low coral]

Lance with Lucas + Chase under Circle and -3 Rebuff still has a weaker B Hyper Beam at base than Ash with Red + Blue

[snow spruce]

Chase has other issues, like surviving. He works with ice team who have superior overall damage (and especially AoE damage) to dragon teams
NC reds 100% freeze also consistently helps Chase avoid some dmg and save hp

[runic sundial]

as a random person joining this conversation, if it was for the b move i wouldnt have pulled for lance, the main appeal for me is that he does well in both offenses and seems harder to powercreep than pikachu since most of what pikachu brings to the table is the uber nuke on him, while arc lance has a nuke, one turn -6 def/spdef drop and a useable sync

[snow spruce]

"NC reds 100% freeze also consistently helps Chase avoid some dmg and save hp"
wait that may not be true, since guaranteed paralysis could block reds freeze

[low coral]

You can do stun extension with Red and Chase if he got Staggering

[formal matrix]

Also I feel the game is intentionally handicap Lance’s dps by giving him low stats and only 1 multiplier. Like.. I get why they eliminate his sync multiplier because he starts with an insane bp, but dps why?

[true lagoon]

i think ur being overly critical

cuz honestly his stats are fine for what his kit is

the difference is that cynthia and steven are way overtuned

as units

[formal matrix]

I would stop shitting on them if they aren’t 500 scout points

[true lagoon]

thats a separate issue not necessarily related to strength

[paper mural]

He needs SMUN stack to fix that.
Ash with Red + Blue is only +2 guaranteed or +4 with NC Blue's mpr and not easily stackable bc Ash other attack consumes it.
Lance with Chase is +5 guaranteed or +6 or more with Chase's mpr and easily stackable.

[formal matrix]

I feel if they take that much to pity, he better be the best single target damage dealer in the game

[true lagoon]

i mean he kinda is?

he has by far the best st sync and his dps moves are good

[formal matrix]

Nuke he is. Dps is debatable

[paper mural]

The issue is really that Chase + ArcLance + any dragon zone is not good in most ubs at all.
Only Palmer and Noland bc they don't need defense, weather change or massive debuff.

[formal matrix]

This input is from someone who pulls him to pity and get to 4/5 I really wish he is as good as the other two

[true lagoon]

yeah and again thats an issue with partners opposed to lance himself

[warm haven]

I think ash still performs better having as optimal parterns two of the best units in the game

If there was a dragon SST Red lance would def be better

or if lucas had gotten striker EXR

[paper mural]

I won't say "Ash performs better" when he was hard carried by his 2 teammates.
It's like saying Greta or Avery performs better than a lot of mfs just bc they were used in that ArcSteven + ArcCynthia team.

[warm haven]

Ash is carried as much as NC Red is by irida

Rats + blue can brute force argenta with rain and beat Palmer with only ash at 3/5

[fast pendant]

I think the best comparison is SS Gladion, but even then it's not accurate, for sure is not similar to NC Red and Irida since NC Red can be used aside from Irida and perform as standalone, while Ash has a much tougher time without the duo that packs terrain, master passive stack and rebuff for him.

[fading walrus]

Yeah red and irida are truly synergetic

[fast pendant]

But Ash is not just carried, he does have a lot of dmg and uses with guard, sync acceleration, aoe nuke, etc

[final yacht]

But Ash is not just carried, he does have a lot of dmg and uses with guard, sync acceleration, aoe nuke, etc

[fading walrus]

It's also different because ice duo has not a NC blue equivalent

[final yacht]

[fading walrus]

Ash brings the buddy nuke and some self sustain/heals
But if the stage isn't completely impervious to Phys, enhancing tbolt can net the sameish result

For ice, red can work without irida but she's the one that skyrockets him to hell and back, and they really do a lot that's not just damage

[low coral]

Wait, what happened there

[fading walrus]

Runner lagged out

[final yacht]

runner sent the messages 3 times and I felt like memeing

[low coral]

Oh lol

[dark dust]

Looks to be discord lol

I thought it's internet issue but one other got the same one in HSE lol

[boreal abyss]

It's giving problems all around

Sadly Mr Runner got the triple message thing too

[uncut drum]

https://youtu.be/cPys9kUyY7c?si=Z9pB3KYlIG_5Sd7m

They did Anabel in sun

[snow spruce]

wth

[river prawn]

history being made

[earnest panther]

THEY ALMOST PRESYNCED TOO

[stable tundra]

That's very impressive for Lillie

Best f2p confirmed?

[warm haven]

no WAY

that's it SS Lear > Arc Cynthia

[boreal abyss]

They better put the Lunala variant in the grave

That is indeed impressive

[fading walrus]

Wasn't doubted already

[earnest panther]

also, did i hear correctly, Lear said "Idiot" when he got KOed.

he called Gholdengho an idiot D:

[fading walrus]

They would've presynced imo if they didn't kill arcanine before flinching entei

[snow spruce]

Noland possible too?

[warm haven]

yeah and prob it was a low dmg roll too

very likely imo

also i never thought that you could flinch anabel with sun if you kill the sides

[boreal abyss]

Arc Stove moment

[fading walrus]

If they had better gear with like crit3%s or smith it would've been it too

[boreal abyss]

Did I just sent twice the same message?

Or is it bugged on my end only

[fading walrus]

Personally think this is a collective deal

• best support in the game
• best f2p in the game
• funny circle enhancer with lotta CD and amazing damage

[warm haven]

Best circle setter in the game actually

[boreal abyss]

Pasio circle >>> every other circle confirmed?

[low coral]

He wasn't even the tank lol

[boreal abyss]

A

Are you kidding

[low coral]

Lillie took the hits

[warm haven]

Also yeah lmao

[fading walrus]

Yeah no

[snow spruce]

yeah Lillei tanked it

[fading walrus]

Lillie tanks

[boreal abyss]

I have questions hahahaha

[snow spruce]

because of the passive heals ?

[boreal abyss]

What the actual

[low coral]

Yes

[fading walrus]

Yeah to avoid the procs

[snow spruce]

Lillie tanking
Lillie provides zone
Lillie carry!

[boreal abyss]

I am genuinely impressed

What a free unit

[snow spruce]

everyone here (me included) said that sun Anabel isnt doable

[fading walrus]

Yeah she's crazy

Also if ghold wasn't fire weak

It would be even easier

[low coral]

Kinda

[fading walrus]

Having to run fire guard makes a big difference

In damage

[low coral]

She's the one providing a ton of damage to the sides

Which need to be dropped early

[fading walrus]

Yeah she denialed so hard I didn't expect it

[boreal abyss]

With this update I imagine tier listing is gonna be spicy

So many good things

[fading walrus]

Do be

[warm haven]

The moment they release a tierlist update another incredible clear is released

[boreal abyss]

Lmao

Not that kind of timing

😭

[fading walrus]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qJdTVpR6R08jIeC8odpBBazsa8Fq03ELBppoKRPWyG4/edit?usp=drivesdk

Yep

[warm haven]

Moments before the disaster

[fading walrus]

Just a couple hours after it dropped?

[boreal abyss]

Lmfao

[river prawn]

Steel core performs better than Electric

[fading walrus]

Lear gonna go up again let's GOOOO

[low coral]

It wouldn't change regardless

Even if it was yesterday, the list was already finalized

[snow spruce]

honestly yeah ? Kinda true now

[warm haven]

Even before this tbh

Now it's prob the second best team because the first one already includes lear

[dim lance]

馬鹿な

[fading walrus]

It's just the combo of dropping an insane support with debuffs and ST flinch + an insane free unit with zone, some extend range and debuffs + a sync cd circle monster with some extend range and good AF damage all in 1 month

[dim lance]

What the hell lol

[fading walrus]

Insane

[uncut drum]

Steel team might be better than the rats now

[fast pendant]

Quite above I would say

[fading walrus]

And this is with a freebie...

[dim lance]

Do we want to consider Lear a better pair than SST tho

[low coral]

Idk if Arc Cyn + SS Lear is the option for either side tbh

[fading walrus]

[fast pendant]

Lear might unironically only be comparable to NC Red and Cynthia

[paper mural]

We dont need the presumbly fire arcsuit and alr get the sun Anabel clear, and with one unit weak to fire too.

[snow spruce]

how about Steel vs Ice team ? Steel has mixed damage there is that. Also Irida still needs to get her EXR

[warm haven]

[uncut drum]

Lear probably performs better in UBs than Red

[boreal abyss]

Anni Steven mention, we are so back

[uncut drum]

The REAL Anni Steven

[boreal abyss]

🐐

[warm haven]

i would consider lear more like the best DD now

sst red still cover a lot more gimmicks than lear

[uncut drum]

Ehhh no

SST is still much better for everything else pretty much

[low coral]

Lear still uses a lot of his hybrid tools

[snow spruce]

to be honest its just as much Lillie as it is Lear IMO .. after all she is the one with the zone (and Steven with the rebuff)
and also her Piercing Blows too, pretty relevant in some cases

I wouldnt really put Lear at SST Red or above level just from this .. but I would bump up Lillie probably

[uncut drum]

It's just that Lear benefits from this team so much

[river prawn]

Big part of all this is Steven doing damage equivalent to a third damage dealer

[warm haven]

just like NC Red imo

[uncut drum]

Lillie is easily best F2P unit

[low coral]

Yeah, but a lot more into the hybrid tools and less into damage

[uncut drum]

Still, SST Red is better

[paper mural]

Lear's circle is prob the determine factor tho.

[uncut drum]

It's really hard to top him

[low coral]

Or rather, his own damage

Since a lot of Lear's power is just how much he boosts others

[dim lance]

Cynthia tops him ish

[fading walrus]

Ice needs a S+ or higher support that actually caters to the type

[paper mural]

You can't change it to random circle and hope for the same performance.

[fading walrus]

Not a generalist

[dim lance]

But that's just Cynthia

[uncut drum]

They do different things

I wouldn't say she's necessarily better but she's up there with him

[fast pendant]

You can do different things and just be better the same

[uncut drum]

Steven is 100% better though

[fast pendant]

And she's absolutely better

[snow spruce]

and yeah Steven does kinda crazy damage on that team, wtf
its definitely an overall team effort and synergy, not just Lear

[fading walrus]

Yea

[warm haven]

it is

[dim lance]

Well, Red has better WTZ control but lacks rebuff weather

[fast pendant]

Well yea, it's for sure the team

[dim lance]

And is more frontloaded into nuke than DPS

[warm haven]

lillie is not an uber either but does what the team needs

[paper mural]

Also in some clear you really need Lear's aoe sync dmg.
Lillie's dmg alone is not gonna work without Lear.

[fading walrus]

Which is why ice getting a proper uber support would likely get ice to top again imo

[uncut drum]

Red has debuffs and flinches too

[dim lance]

Lillie is just all around overloaded lawl

[river prawn]

Yes Steven often is the last one standing and can take down mid

If it's an impossible matchup kinda thing

[warm haven]

i would prefer a stronger irida

[fast pendant]

Would be very hard even with a uber supp that ice achievesthe level of sync acceleration of steel

[snow spruce]

they kinda overtuned Cynthia, Steven, Lillie, Lear .. or they didnt realize the Steel synergy would be this good

[fast pendant]

Which is one of the biggest points

[uncut drum]

Arc Suit N with White Kyurem becoming top ice unit

[river prawn]

The new support meta will probably lean into doing actual damage

[low coral]

Idt it's a case of "they didn't realize"

It's an update very much focused on rebuilding Steel from the ground up

[warm haven]

between the safety of ssac/nc blue and the offensive power of chase they have the support covered

[uncut drum]

Like how 3rd anni did to electric pretty much?

[fading walrus]

I mean they could if they gave the support Sinnoh analysis and same CD tier as lear imo

[low coral]

Yeah, but even more

[fading walrus]

And some hail or zone set

Or extension

Or enhancement

Like "team invigorating & heavy hail 3"

[uncut drum]

Lillie being F2P sprint field is easily the best part of it, since at least we get an amazing unit for free

[fading walrus]

Or smth

[uncut drum]

No need to pay to get her

[fading walrus]

Yeah because lear and Steven aren't one dimensional damage buttons like ash

[snow spruce]

anything is possible, they can do an ice support/arc thats even better than Steven on the steel team
or just drop an Arc Cynthia, ice-version
only a matter or whether they want to

[low coral]

Well, no, not due to that

[fading walrus]

Well that too imo

[dim lance]

Nepotism and capitalism are powerful agents, that's why Lear is so OP

[low coral]

There's a 2 year gap, it's natural the unit would be stronger

[fading walrus]

Exactly

[dim lance]

Btw tosakinto is also gonna showcase the Lear Avery full UB clear tonight

@warm haven

So stay tuned for that

[low coral]

With Electric on 3rd being more powerful relative to the rest of the cast than Steel on 5th, but they just released more units for Steel, with a bigger increase in power compared to before, and even more focused on the type

[fading walrus]

Irida pace is imo fine for red, so a stronger ice centric support would be better than an irida 2

[snow spruce]

one of you 3/5 Lear havers needs to try doing Noland now

[warm haven]

i will, but not sure what timezone is that

[low coral]

Since even Electric on 3rd had some ok units

[dim lance]

It's already been done

[low coral]

Steel was almost at the bottom of the types

Probably only ahead of Bug

[dim lance]

The catch is he has to hop with different supports to do it

[snow spruce]

I mean with the full steel team ofc (Lear-Steven-Lillie). the new hotness

[dim lance]

Idt that comp can do it

It has no block

[fading walrus]

Worse than ghost?

I guess ...

[low coral]

Pre-5th anni? Yeah

[fading walrus]

I was counting lillie

[warm haven]

that comp has insane damage and sync accel i believe they can beat noland

[fast pendant]

I don't think they need any block

[fading walrus]

But not the 2 1%s

[fast pendant]

They have tons of acceleration

[fading walrus]

So my b

[low coral]

I think you need more Head Starts

[dim lance]

Perhaps

[low coral]

Which is why idt I can do it rn

[snow spruce]

block isnt required for Noland, only crazy damage and sync accel

[fast pendant]

Just gotta stack moves up for both Lillie and lear

[low coral]

But iirc you can Sync T1

[snow spruce]

but you basically need to take off the last 50% in ~2 attacks

[fast pendant]

You can sync t1

[low coral]

With LS on Steven and one other on either Lillie or Lear

Not sure what would net better overall damage

[paper mural]

Don't you need at least 1 block to survive the opening fissure?

The second or more is indeed not needed.

[low coral]

Depends on the comp, some can just afford losing the unit

The big filter is actually Earthquake

[snow spruce]

sync immediately or AFTER turn 1 ?
syncing immediately requires 9x HS1, I dont think they have that
after turn 1 sure, np

[warm haven]

lillie has -2 on her tm

[low coral]

Since Earthquake is guaranteed to take out the team

[dim lance]

It can, no

Lillie has -3, Steven has -2

[low coral]

-1 Steven, -2 Lillie, -1 Lear, just need two HS1

[warm haven]

with the denial and sprint sync they can get another sync

[low coral]

HS1 on Steven is free since he's gonna get KOed anyway

[dim lance]

And yeah, Lear can just cover bases

[low coral]

So just one more on Lillie or Lear

[dim lance]

What do y'all think of base Lear, just to stir the pot a bit

[low coral]

Good, but not as good as SS Steven still

[warm haven]

at this point i would put him with ss steven

[fading walrus]

Showcases that bad EXroles updates are pretty much ways to tell DeNas character preference

[fading walrus]

They fight for sync then I feel

[warm haven]

steven has no excuse for not performing well in UBs

[warm haven]

i mean in powerlevel

[fading walrus]

Oh yeah then

[snow spruce]

there is 1 issue - if your steven dies turn 1 (Noland gets crit from that) and you take out the sides - that forces Noland to do a crit EQ b efore sync .. that + sync will wipe you out
thats precisely why the Cynthia-Steven-Silver/Lear teams do NOT kill the sides before sync. You can only do that if you 3-rd pair survived the fissure

[low coral]

I think there's a lot more luck involved with using Lear + Avery

[fading walrus]

But Steven is better still

Because downside up + protect

Is really great

[low coral]

Steven doesn't particularly perform bad either

[warm haven]

idk he has a full team of rebuff and basically permanent PT

lear is doing more with limited PT

[fast pendant]

Not really, if I can not kill sides with Cynthia, I surely can not kill the sides with those 2

[low coral]

I think that's really into more "single comp clearing UBs"

Rather than Steven not clearing UBs

[boreal abyss]

I am in need of another weather UB here

Chop chop dena

Lemme have fun

[snow spruce]

I mean they deliberately have to avoid killing the sides (which also means not getting the turn steal), if the support died turn 1
If you kill the sides and get the turn steal - Noland crit EQ + sync will wipe you out
so you have to do it without the turn steal

[fading walrus]

Been almost one year since Anabel btw

Crazy

[boreal abyss]

Not the Argenta Nita erasure

Dogwow

[fading walrus]

Can't wait for Nita in BR

[warm haven]

well his clear on anabel is too safe

[boreal abyss]

Lmao

[river prawn]

I can try the steel comp on Noland later

I have the investments and hs1

[warm haven]

But what would be lear's problems then? he isnt struggling to debuff the enemy anymore

sure he has a mid dps but with a sync way way higher than steven's

[paper mural]

It's said that OG Lear + Avery + a third cleared all ubs. Cannot use the same third tho.

[fading walrus]

Not NC Rosa?

[low coral]

Well, it's not really about problems

SS Steven is not a problematic unit either

A lot of those things are into synergy, which was already complained about to Steven, rather than his individual kit

While Lear does have good synergy with Avery specifically and vice-versa

[warm haven]

isnt that synergy also part of a unit's value?

[low coral]

It is

But again, Steven doesn't struggle to beat UBs, he struggles to do so with a single team

The unit itself still beats them, but swaps partners

[snow spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8LKnzuCXE

[warm haven]

Did he beat nita? If it's with irida idt it's steven achivement

[warm haven]

oh nice

[fast pendant]

I mean, he has nothing for Nita

[low coral]

Lear has a direct counter move for Nita

[warm haven]

and that's part of his value, stat reset is one of the best tools for UBs

steven debuffs are tied to an interference that's not always available

[fast pendant]

Fairy team is one of the best teams but cannot beat Nita the same

[low coral]

Idt it's the stat reset, it's actually the shield

But still, it does make Lear better as a unit, idt it's a detriment to Steven that he doesn't counter Nita

[warm haven]

but we're talking about steven individually, not about a team

[low coral]

It goes back into sun units having weather, but UBs abusing sun more than other weathers

So it becomes a disadvantage rather than a advantage if you only take into account current matchups

It's much better to have nothing for Darach than to have nothing for Nita

[fast pendant]

Stat reset and stopping them from buffing is grear

But I would much rather have actual debuffs

They take more time but they will increase your dmg and reduce opponents

[fading walrus]

Well stat raise block counters fluid fortification heavy buffing stages much harder than having just extra debuffs

Imo

[warm haven]

i guess, but steven only has reliable spdef debuff, and he's slow at it

[fading walrus]

As it's a much rarer niche to cover

[warm haven]

and ST

[earnest panther]

Hummuna hummuna hummuna

[fading walrus]

Yeah lear nukes hard

DPS is middling tho

[earnest panther]

i need his 4/5 badly

[warm haven]

So again, what puts steven ahead of lear? it's not damage, nor gimmick coverage

[fading walrus]

Mine will be 2/5 barring any extra mix copies

[dim lance]

Gimmick coverage is about the same

different breed

being debuffless is separate from providing debuffs in itself

[earnest panther]

DPS is middling,
40K Hyperspace hole

[dim lance]

Lear has a more "universal" tactic because it crucically tackles speed and removes crits

so that's important ofc

[fading walrus]

I hit that with Lana Vs Argenta on average without much PMUN

Not really an achievement

[dim lance]

You would mostly justify Lear being ahead by the "performance" basis, namely with the notion that Lear's done things that Steven itself can't replicate

[fast pendant]

If you place a center that has one stat that cannot be debuffed and they start with it

Lear is done for

[earnest panther]

That is true, any type of unbending/Stalwart gimmick on the mid leaves him with a mediocre nuke

he won't be able to steal it

[fading walrus]

Yep

[fast pendant]

He has great gimmick check, but there are limits

[warm haven]

ok that's valid

[low coral]

The gimmick check is also a shared role with Avery

[fading walrus]

He also needs to keep that shield on so you lose on DPS turns

[dim lance]

Yeah, as it so happens we don't really have a stage where we can't debuff/remove buffs of anything yet

[low coral]

Since both provide buff block

[dim lance]

but when we do have it

Lear just gets blocked

and it doesn't have to be a full stat block

[low coral]

Rather than just Avery or just Lear

[dim lance]

it can be just one stat, even something like Dauntless

[fading walrus]

Just +1 speed with haste is enough

[dim lance]

and all of his value is just gone

ironically, this is more common in CS and LG

rather than UB or HS fsr

probably because they know debuffs are necessary?

[low coral]

EBEs have them often too

HS probably doesn't because the stages are mostly blankets and then buffed by the param

[dim lance]

lear mostly corresponds better to Nita but Steven should, in theory, be able to replicate the rest?

like, I'd like for someone to do that at least

[low coral]

Giving them actual gimmicks on top of the stage param could be overkill

[snow spruce]

I would definitely now place OG lear and SS Steven as equal or at least very close together on a tier list.
but then I would also never have SS Steven (or SS Serena either, even after Lance came out) in the Uber tier on the current list to begin with .
So both S+ probably, if I were doing it

[fast pendant]

I haven't seen the other things, would need need check

[low coral]

UBs, idk, the time just hasn't come yet ig

[dim lance]

well, Uber is relative, unless you want the size to be super small fsr

or if you think serena/steven should be split from Marnie

the main argument for Lear would be if he crosses the Lysandre/Irida check first

which he probably does

I would want to Uber him behind Steven personally, but S+ leader seems like a more plausible position

[fading walrus]

Another thing
Lear has 689/176/237 + strike cake
Steven has 796/204/204 + Support cake

Keeping Steven alive requires less tinkering around ranges and splitting heals on him and support

[dim lance]

yes and no, since Lear also has distributed regen, lol

[fading walrus]

Plus the advantage of supp ex stack

[snow spruce]

thats true, Lear is on the frail side

[dim lance]

But yes, Protect is good

[low coral]

Considering Avery often has to time his second Hail as well

[fading walrus]

Regen isn't hard to get anyway, and dedicated protect is also a thing

[low coral]

You often need to have previous knowledge of the rotation to manipulate it

[warm haven]

In favor of lear there's also really good sync accel, the level of a sprint unit

Something that the team with Steven lacks

[dim lance]

Which is valid ofc

[fast pendant]

It doesn't lack, Rosa has good acceleration

It does get more of it

[fading walrus]

Again, we're talking
749/176/237 with regen and sync cd
Vs
896/244/244 with protect and supp ex on a spread tech nuke (with lower range but still)

[warm haven]

Well it's way less

[fast pendant]

Yes, but there are teams without any

[fading walrus]

It's still -4
Lear has... -4 + propulsion 1 RNG?

Oh and TM

[warm haven]

He has - 1 on his tm too

[fading walrus]

My bad