Extreme, Ultimate & Challenge Battles

[sonic bear]

Im doing misty vaporeon, red pikachu and NC blue

[paper mural]

You didn't save haze to clear his "just go die" TMs?

[fading walrus]

Yeah Blue should tank easily until he does his first TM

Even 1/5

[slow sky]

Need to save the haze to deal with both of his TMs

Unless the mpr proc after you used your first haze against his TM stat boosts, don't use it to reset his buff from syncs

[gentle wharf]

Dammit can’t get the NC Red Fall Roxanne KeiSS team to work against Nita

[agile wind]

Can Chase be replaced with someone else?

I don't have him

[snow spruce]

For that Ice team? yeah with SSA Cynthia or Grusha .. probably NC Blue as well
honestly even Lana might work well here, blocking EQ similar to how she did on Noland

[low coral]

You can replace them, but the strat is not the same

Only Chase goes for the pre-sync

The others try more so to manipulate the AI into spamming TMs after they sync

[snow spruce]

@low coral any chance you have screenshots (killshots like the one you gave me with Chase for Thorton) for your Ice team-Chase clears - for Darach and Leon too?
I'm missing those two, only have old screenshots of in-game viewer - and those clears arent even there anymore.
If not then fine

[low coral]

Later

[agile wind]

why I get nuked by the sync...

[low coral]

Darach is very easy, Leon I think takes some work

[low coral]

There's also this if that helps lol

[snow spruce]

I already have exactly that in my doc. Wanted to replace it with a better in-battle screenshot.
But if it needs reclearing then nvm. Not that important

The main one is - deathless Leon clear with Ice team-Cynthia. Thats the only one missing, I did deathless Thorton yesterday and compiled the 9 here - https://imgur.com/a/3HxAink
Too bad leon is fire damage, would be a breeze to do deathless if he wasnt

[low coral]

The problem is not even just the Fire damage, it's that sure crit Hyper Beam late into the battle too

[snow spruce]

oh yeah, Leon has sleep on his sidemons, you need status immunity? So cant run Vigilance cookie
=/

Was Leon immune to stuns?

[valid raft]

Yes

[snow spruce]

Maybe an option is to let Irida tank with her Vigilance + Winter Coat 2 and hope she can survive the non-crit hyperbeam

[wary hemlock]

whats the gimmick for giovanni

trying to access the pinned doc but it doesnt allow landscape format to access giovanni

[lunar sedge]

keep any form of WTZ up since he'll gain x3 defenses + attack multiplier

keep his offensive stats buffs under control, not even a +1

[wary hemlock]

ohh

[lunar sedge]

he also has his coop days omnibuffs

[wary hemlock]

akari 5/5 and sc zinnia 3/5 should work ig?

[lunar sedge]

yeah pretty much made for them

[wary hemlock]

any support haze unit

cos it seems like 1 isnt enough from b night slash

[lunar sedge]

Lodge Gladion but like you have NC Zinnia

[marble flume]

Probably don’t need one since SC Zinnia can have an extension on the buff prevention field from grid

[wary hemlock]

yea when do yall use b night slash?

[lunar sedge]

his omnibuffs are trigerred when you hit his enduraces checkpoint

[wary hemlock]

u mean 80% and 50%?

[lunar sedge]

40%

but yeah those enduraces

[wary hemlock]

oh

cos its hard to presync before 40%

to use b night slash

[lunar sedge]

i don't have Zinnia so i used LGladion as the hazer, 5/5 akari handles the sole DPS/nuke just fine

the thing abt his omnibuffs, if you hit the endurance checkpoint but the enemy already has a move queued it won't be used after that action is done, you should be able to hit the 80% just before his first sync

so you can pretty much remove not just his omnibuffs but the +2 after sync buffs as well

[wary hemlock]

ohhh i see

so i slot the b night slash right after his first sync?

[lunar sedge]

With zinnia I'm not sure of how to time her buff steals

[wary hemlock]

oh

[fossil fjord]

I sent in 2 clears for the sheet but forgot to add that it should use my discord username instead of the YT name 😭

Nvm I changed it there

[lunar sedge]

https://youtu.be/pAebXk3d5QM?si=K7xggRKDJmXmlAWq seems like if you're able to time his 40% endurance just 1 turn before his second sync, one b night slash should be good enough

btw does anyone knows if his sure crit all is prioritized over his omnibuff if you hit 40% before any action got queued?

[wary hemlock]

ok nvm that was an easy clear

thanks man

[lunar sedge]

nice

[wary hemlock]

i think this was really made for akari

they intentionally used DF 7 instead of 9

[lunar sedge]

i mean you need WTZ still or he'll just be one tanky mf

[wary hemlock]

yea

b night slashed was used right before his first sync

[lunar sedge]

but yeah akari alone should be fine as long as there's someone to help control his buffs

[wary hemlock]

cos i think omni buffs boosted his sync

[lunar sedge]

oh yeah 300% sync boost if you didn't do anything abt his buffs lol

[wary hemlock]

wait whot

[lunar sedge]

brawn/brain sync 9 + rising tide

[wary hemlock]

wth is his passive

oh damn

thats a tech right there

[lunar sedge]

another 50% if there's no WTZ active

[wary hemlock]

wait whot

no wonder

[low coral]

Well, it can be any field effect that works on the opponent

Not specifically WTZ

Akari's own Dark Damage Field also disables the passive even after her Dark Zone runs out

[snow spruce]

I tried doing my own Poison team-SS Mina clear (with 1/5 Mina) for Giovanni since it still hasnt been posted, but then I remembered I would need to roll 2 or 3 Acuity cookies just for this fight. Nah

[buoyant ice]

is the "easiest" 3/5 exr team for nita... NC Red, Irida, and NC Blue?

that fight has been the bane of my existence, yesterday decided to catch up with UB battles...

[snow spruce]

Cynthia or Chase are generally the best supports on the Ice team, but Blue is good too
3/5 NC Cheren + weathersetter pair is also good on Nita

[buoyant ice]

I got cynthia, you think her team is easier to accomplish than with NC Blue?

after resetting like 30x yesterday i took a break and deciding how to tackle it... found this boss ass team with Bede on the sheet that didn't seem to rely on RNG only to later realize that I needed 4/5 NC red after slowly following the vid 2 times, so F

[eternal yacht]

Okay finally defeated Gio using Marnie/2x Greninja

[buoyant ice]

tried to compensate said lack of damage (to reach the 80% threshold) using skill gears... but realized that is one big pain in the ass so just droppped the team.

[eternal yacht]

50 deluxe cookies down the drain for 3x super powered 3

[buoyant ice]

could be worse, i wasted like 50 cookies yesterday just for 1 HS1 , got vigilance at least 10x lol

[eternal yacht]

I literally had to do this

[buoyant ice]

i'll save this tyvm lol, assuming i beat nita after the hate and the next one after that i'll tackle giovanni xD

hope his rng isn't as horrible as nita.

[eternal yacht]

You need Marnie TM MPR + Flinch + Serena Flinch ~~ 4% chance of happening

If you have Zapdos/better units go use them imo

[buoyant ice]

damn, yeah i got zapdos.

[snow spruce]

I think both should be "easy" if you do it right.
Just maybe try copying this video exactly and you should get it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcuIGt7bB1Q

[eternal yacht]

btw do you guys save special skill bracelets or you assign them immediately to a bandana/pin/etc?

[snow spruce]

"Gameplay : Timing is important in Nita's Ultimate Battle during which you need to keep an eye on Pep Rally 1, Sandstorms and Team Fast Track 9 Cause its Triple Nita's Team Defenses!"

[buoyant ice]

will do!

tyvm

gonna try it rn

follow it on x1 speed to make sure i do it right..

[snow spruce]

btw in that video he is at +4 defences because Cynthias TM gives +4 (not +6) without the fighting zone which gets overwritten by the ice zone (Arctic Arrival)
you can just ignore it like in the video and stay at +4, or grid her for TM MPR and use it again to go from +4 to +6 quick

[buoyant ice]

ty

[true lagoon]

damnit

i saw other people win so im not sure what im doing wrong

[fading walrus]

Blue wasn't working out for me

I got him to 15-10%

But then I just lost every time

So I just used penny instead

For faster Spdef debuff and steal

[earnest panther]

day 2 of not being able to beat this UB

[fading walrus]

https://youtu.be/N4vq-_z8838?si=xOQSxri1jypzLu9r

Sick

Wicked even

https://tenor.com/view/undead-unluck-andy-anime-uu-gif-27257956

[buoyant ice]

nothing is working out for me lol, saw the shortest run was with NC Bianca, but can't reach threshold of 80% on time... i even overspeced and little compared to the grid shown (to add 2 more s.atk nodes lol) but no luck... ah nita is pain.

Sadly my penny is 1/5, and don't think i should use my 2 sup candies since anni is coming...

[fading walrus]

I think 2/5 penny can work

You kinda need the shielded tile

To not implode at first psyshock or whatever the M2 version is called

For the rest, 2/5 should work fine as long as you get a good rotation

Technically 1/5 can work too

You just need godly gear

[snow spruce]

is Giovanni UB really that bad ?
I mean SS Misty, Grimsley, Brycen are all "free". And haze really shuts down Gio

[fading walrus]

You still need

• consistent Wtz/DF
• a damage dealer that doesn't implode from EQ
• an anchor that can either wall second sync (like ssmina or belleba) or vig on striker

And by allotting a "free" hazer you're pushing these reqs on 2 units

Ofc it's not in the top 3 UBs imo but it's still harsh

[snow spruce]

if Giovanni is hazed right after TMs none of his attacks hit for that much, survival shouldnt be a problem
there are so many WTZ units
I guess if you have to survive second crit sync - then it colud get tricky, since you possibly need to choose between Acuity and Vigilance cookies

[earnest panther]

Love that i'm being punished for not having 3/5 SST Red.

[fading walrus]

You can't haze every time

And EQ still chips

So does sync

And duos of units that can DPS rush before second sync aren't THAT common offtype

Esp with enough wtz

Esp while having a good anchor

Poison would be a great option if poison had a support that enables solo Oleana

Or solo whatever

[earnest panther]

Og the misery

cool. can't do this UB because I just don't have enough move levels.

can't use candies yet because Anni

1/5 SST red
1/5 Akari
1/5 SC Zinnia
2/5 NC Calem
2/5 SS Morty
2/5 Chase
3/5 SS Mina
1/5 Penny. 🙃

[fossil fjord]

Well good thing it's permanent

[marble flume]

Me with like 90% of UBs

[paper mural]

I redo all the UBs recently and I figured I actually can't do most of them without NC Blue + SST Red lol.

[inner heath]

I know some people are sick of the rats and the birb but they deserve their candies for carrying so many contents from UB, EBE, HS, LG…
I am a candy hoarder but just recently decided to use them to actually have some fun, just a few, not using them all anyway. recent units all seem to have great longevity so using candies does not feel like a waste

[warm garnet]

Got it after some attempts 🙂 akari survived second sync with only like 2% hp

[mental jasper]

it's just more permanent than we are until we find a way to live another 976 years

[sour elk]

Wait why is Marnie's TM MPR needed? I think thats not necessary to clear, just the turn 1 flinch and the flinch before Gio's sync, with Fiery Wrath Agg 2 you have like 22% of getting both

[short gate]

This close to winning against argenta

1/5 exr Morty, 3/5 exr sst and 3/5 exr cerena btw

[slow sky]

Btw for those who have SS Korrina at 3/5, you can consider using her for stat stealing if you don't have SC Zinnia

Since she has hit reload at 3/5, u can use try to steal gio's buffs from sync passive without worrying too much about mp running out

[fossil fjord]

Or just use Grimsley if you have neither

[stable tundra]

Either using Korrina or Grimsley, the MPR rng will screw me over

[slow sky]

Korrina's MPR is nonstop as long as your shadow punch connect, 50% everytime it hits

and shadow punch never misses

unless you are spamming her stat snatching move every turn, I doubt you will run out of MP

(unless you are super unlucky and your move is missing every turn for 3 times consecutively)

[stable tundra]

That's me

[low coral]

Just run Acuity on her

[slow sky]

think she will die to sync if your battle lasts too long tho since gio will crit starting from 2nd sync

sucks that her impervious grid is locked behind 5/5

-_-

[valid raft]

Ah yes, Acuity on someone that has a move that never misses

I forget, does Spectral Thief have accuracy or nah?

[slow sky]

spectral thief will miss with accuracy debuffs yeah

only shadow punch is guaranteed hit

[true lagoon]

shadow punch aint doing shit and you’re there to leech stats which can miss anyway

[slow sky]

shadow punch is still needed to recharge spectral thief mp tho

[true lagoon]

yes i mean damage wise

[stable storm]

simply always get mpr fr fr

[eternal yacht]

1M gang where

oh wrong chat

[rigid hare]

Which is the correct one

?

[valid raft]

#1255888121648644197

[snow spruce]

Hmm, still no Poison-SS Mina clear from Tosakin for Gio. Maybe just busy

[fading walrus]

I really don't think that team can tank enough

And pre second sync without dying before then

[snow spruce]

if Flying-SS Mina could do it, it would be crazy to me if Poison-SS Mina cannot.
especially since Oleana debuffs >> anniSkyla debuffs
But a lack of flinch/freeze could be crucial too

[snow spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryT8BDFngmU
Tosakin just now posted his Gio clears. Most are repeats, were already done on day 1 (except Ice team-NC Blue)
his Fairy team is using Penny like everyone else, so I assume SS Gladion-SS Wally-SS Mina is impossible here as suspected
And indeed, he couldnt make Poison-Mina work - so far..

[warm haven]

Thats weird, the poison team seems to have the tools to beat him

[snow spruce]

So my UB doc is updated for now - only remains to see if Poison-Mina can make it on Gio
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1unwNqwt18yroGqlEpdcnvYBhpn7KdX-ZCD53vqiufzg/edit?gid=1190611733#gid=1190611733

IMO Poison-SS Mina is the most versatile of all the top UB teams - it has weather and terrain and zone all at once, and status and rebuff and all kinds of debuffs etc. Even has both Physical and Special dmg. Oleana has Support role, Roxie has Strike role. Everything.
However its also probably the weakest (vs Ice, Flying, Electric etc.) in terms of raw power (especially defensively - 0 master passives), and probably has the most rng with that 20% Oleana flinch. Its also the most vulnerable to EQ
But yeah I think it should be able to beat Gio still

[fading walrus]

not really imo

it kinda lacks the tools to avoid gio chipping with +3 offences EQ

and then second sync into eq wiping

because oleana loses dps by having to spam a lot of debuffs

[snow spruce]

I thought they can block first post-sync EQ with Minas move. And then kill before second sync (or right after second sync)

[warm haven]

well electric + silver team doesnt even get hit by that EQ

so i think it's more that mina gets killed earlier

[fading walrus]

^

that's the problem

you either have mina get hard chipped by psystrike

or get sides chipped by EQ

and syncs hurt a lot too even at neutral

[shut trellis]

What gear?

[humble gyro]

stil cant beat this shit

[snow spruce]

Checked my clear again and Cynthia survived - TM-boosted EQ + TM-boosted Psystrike back to back, with no heals.
Went from 100% to 2% hp. It was a lucky lower damage roll too though, probably

[low coral]

He mentioned why

He said the struggles were on Giovanni buffing too much rather than a limited amount of times

And also Poison struggling to deal with accuracy debuffs

As he has to save Mina's B

Ofc, keep in mind the problem with buffing is not just defensive - Oleana and Roxie are also debuff-based for their multipliers

[warm haven]

ah right

[low coral]

@snow spruce if you needed context

[low coral]

Why is Pika Duo + Blue with a red color on Argenta?

[snow spruce]

Because I couldnt find such a clear anywhere and when I asked here (just recently) - everyone said they cannot bruteforce Argenta through infinite rain.
If you do have a screenshot or video of them clearing it - link me, I'll add it

I can make it yellow instead of red, but it doesnt really matter, I need proof of clear either way

[low coral]

Huh, I'm fairly sure last time it was David who said he thinks they didn't do it, but I mentioned they did

Either way

https://youtu.be/WmmpcNOQOLc?si=Lkw5Mi4A64EoPzp4

It's a huge blessing that Argenta ended up being the rain UB, as that's what allows Mina to continue her streak

[snow spruce]

Wow, great. Added. How did I not find it myself

I hope the hail UB is as easy as Argenta, so Ice team can keep its streak .. but somehow i doubt it

[shrewd marten]

We already have an ice type ub

Doubt they’d double up so soon

[snow spruce]

but not a hail one

must have all 4 weathers

[stable tundra]

Ice has used all its weaknesses except Steel

But we don't have any Steel pair with weather change iirc?

[low coral]

Steel rarely has weather, with a weaknlink to sand

There's Raihan, if you wanna count it

[stable tundra]

Oh right, the 5/5 tile no one cares

[low coral]

Rose too

But Rose's sand setting is very weak

And they would rather use Steel DF if they wanted to promote Rose

[warm haven]

we have 2 fire UBs

[shrewd marten]

Well they brought up the weakness thing

Fire rock fighting already done

And unless they release an Uber broken steel unit that sets up weather

So what iron something

No wait

Erm

…

What past paradox is steel type kekw

[warm haven]

iron treads

[shrewd marten]

But yeah unless they release that and then follow it up with ub

[shrewd marten]

Past paradox

[warm haven]

ah future

but there's still dual type paris so things like abomasnow can have bug weakness

froslass ghost weak

and steel weak even

[shrewd marten]

Hmm

Das true

[snow spruce]

well Bug and Ghost types usually dont set weather either
its just fire (sun) and rock (Sandstorm) basically

[warm haven]

But Nita is ground

[snow spruce]

I'm talking weaknesses
Anabel sets sun - is weak to Water - many Water types set rain
Argenta sets rain - is weak to Grass - many Grass types set sun
Nita sets sand - is weak to Ice - many Ice types set hail

This doesnt work if you release an Ice UB with hail, thats weak to ghost/bug/steel/fighting .. none of those types are made for weather setting

its either an Ice UB without hail
or its Ice UB with hail, but its weakness is fire/rock again, a repeat

[warm haven]

True, they have been doing that. But I think they skipped sandstorm setting for darach to give it to nita, so they could have skipped hail to give it to another UB

Thorton would have been good setting hail because fire types set sun

[snow spruce]

Well giving hail to some UB thats not Ice type would be weird .. but not impossible
Thorton yeah, they didnt do it for some reason

[warm haven]

Who knows, maybe it's for the first weakness changing UB

[paper mural]

I think they can totally make steel weak summon hail just bc 2 steel types are sandstorm related, it's not rare an UB is tailor made for one unit and other unit that can do it is just a bonus.

[magic sundial]

Psychic. Avery style.

Avery's psychic but has hail stuff in his kit.

Always a possibility for a UB

[paper mural]

But I think steel weakness UB would on the easier side like Lucy, if they are based on the steel roaster now.

[true lagoon]

well thats playing into how slowbro/slowking gets used in modern competitive

[magic sundial]

exactly, you get it

...imagine we get a Tank-style UB slowbro fight.

a very fun stage.

it's weak but can tank a lot of hits

[final yacht]

Where's my 3 million HP UB

[magic sundial]

first three times its hp reaches 10% it gets back to 50% hp

funbro style.

bullshit stage

[true lagoon]

regenerator moment

[warm haven]

nah it's more that those are their signature moves

[true lagoon]

i dont think chilly reception is just on them

[stone scarab]

chilly reception is a move only the slowkings learn

[fading walrus]

It's a TM on all the other mons that have it right?

[stone scarab]

it isnt a tm

its only learned by slowking and galarian slowking

[fading walrus]

Uh

[magic sundial]

wait yeah its a slowking exclusive move

half the bulbapedia page is avery's b move because of how underutilized the move is lmaooo

[fading walrus]

Untrue actually

Chilly reception is a funny version of teleport

It has a good niche

[stone scarab]

its not underutilised as much as it just hasn't really had time for much to happen for it

[paper mural]

Or maybe fairy weak will summon hail? Now 2 fairy is related to weather already.

[snow spruce]

making UB just for 2 limited pairs is bad design

[warm haven]

ah right

all past paradox are weather related so they could go for that

[novel fog]

SS Mina shines even brighter

[earnest panther]

I'm looking at that ncblue/irida/ncred clear.... and debating how rng is that run

Because it honestly feels like this UB is unpredictable

[snow spruce]

not really. He just uses his TMs at 80% and 40%, thats it

play around that

[earnest panther]

Are the moves he has actually scripted?

Like it genuinely feels like its not

[paper mural]

Every moves in UB are scripted.
Gio will use his named TMs at 80% and 40%, but delay it to the next move if he already queue other move first.

[earnest panther]

I see.

I was under the impression the TM was random

[boreal abyss]

I'll let you laugh with this one, this battle is so weird i actually got two moves away from winning with NC Blue SST Red and yep, Anni Steven

i gave it a random try

but not gonna force it

cuz he has no use in there

[shrewd marten]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1084459674344095756.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

Noice

[paper mural]

He prevents his own acc being drop. Does that count a use? :3

[boreal abyss]

i guess hahaha

[shrewd marten]

Anything counts

Anni coming soon maybe we get mana spiral for

I said mana spiral jeezus lol

I meant power boost for old mf

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1084459674344095756.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[boreal abyss]

think that rn we did stuff with him without role and boosts and such

crossing fingers for good stuff

[shrewd marten]

I love buffs in gacha games

Always nice

[true lagoon]

lol i remember that

[shrewd marten]

[true lagoon]

story characters going from useless to really cracked

[shrewd marten]

We’re oldies

[true lagoon]

yep

but it was honestly insane

pretty sure that ranzal went to like 2400% skill multiplier

which was a shit ton

granted for the time it was really expensive but very worth it

[shrewd marten]

Erm at that time no

The only reason you used regular Randal was

Randal

But regular ranzal was only ever good when dispel was premium in wind

[true lagoon]

nah his damage was very solid

[shrewd marten]

Cuz cielas gimmick was perma buff

[true lagoon]

i mained him for a while

[shrewd marten]

It’s not that his damage was bad

[paper mural]

I want a NC Blue tier Hoenn Flying support.
Broken Hoenn Flying support = Anni Steven upgrade.

[shrewd marten]

It’s that wind was never left wanting

Gala Leif was always pretty good

[true lagoon]

just make downside up team wide

ez

[shrewd marten]

Hawk was really good for a good while

[true lagoon]

ranzal and hawk got their spirals around the same time

[shrewd marten]

I am forgetting another really good wind unit

[true lagoon]

iirc

[shrewd marten]

No?

Hawk got it much earlier

[true lagoon]

they didnt?

[shrewd marten]

MUCH earlier

Hawker was cheesing hjp

Ranzal came out around skill share

[true lagoon]

oh right thats why he was good

3 cost dispel that also did reasonable damage

[rigid hare]

Bruh i wanted to send a video about how i got deleted in a UB but the video is too heavy

[shrewd marten]

Told ya

Skill share killed the game

But that’s enough out of me about dragalia

[rigid hare]

I was trying to do Zapdos Slowking and Glaceon in the Nita UB to showcase 3/5 Slowking, but i struggled against the laterals and i got destroyed in the end. Idk how to fix the run, so i thought to send it here, but it's too heavy

😭

[low coral]

Gio is not random, but he has multiple scripts to follow depending on the situation

Not just the TMs, the attacks he uses can also change

So, if you're worried about Earthquake, there's ranges that he can use it and others that he can't

[snow spruce]

@low coral how many UBs did you pre-sync with Ice team-Chase - 7 or 8 ? And which werent ?

[low coral]

Everyone except Argenta and Noland

[rigid hare]

You mind if i send to you the video about the UB i was talking about? I see you have the Teacher role

So i'd be glad to clarify if there are some errors or not

[low coral]

You talked about a video?

If it was DMs, I rarely check them

[rigid hare]

I recorded a 6 minutes video about a failed attempt in a UB

I wanted to send it here but it's too heavy

[low coral]

But sure, go ahead, idm if people ping me here

[low coral]

Send it to youtube

[rigid hare]

I'd really prefer not to

Well if there aren't any more solutions, ill just try harder about the UB

[low coral]

Well, send it where you prefer, then

Which UB is it?

[rigid hare]

The Nita one

[shrewd marten]

What team are you using

[rigid hare]

Zapdos 3/5, Irida 3/5, Slowking 3/5

[shrewd marten]

You sure that can clear?

[silver spruce]

No way Irida has enough fire power to get through by herself

She's good, not that good

[rigid hare]

Well

This was like the last moments of life i had

So you may be right

[silver spruce]

ex role will make it doable for her no doubt

[shrewd marten]

Yeah that looks giga undoable look at that speed

[paper mural]

His bmove being only one use is really a crime.

[hearty cedar]

Damn, wish I had nc.blue to try out nate against giovanni

[plush gale]

Premise is Simple https://youtu.be/9v9a1vZv8Js?si=pqxrVsb6xicQQVgk

[stable storm]

any poison clear yet

[snow spruce]

nope

[fading walrus]

My face when I keep saying it's not feasible because of sheer numbers:

The indomitable doomthe sprit:

[stable storm]

I will always keep asking

[boreal abyss]

Meh, Gio's stage is so weird that I can't replicate consistently the same run but again, aside downside up there is no meaning to use him there so I just wait for an appropriate UB

[hearty cedar]

Ye gio's stage is annoying

Those acc debuffs work very well against us

[lunar sedge]

acc debuff my behated

[hearty cedar]

Acc debuff is disabling too many units

[lunar sedge]

Also i wonder how's the upcoming anni pairs EBE gonna be

last year's kantrio was plentiful of pain

[stable storm]

it's gonna require you to use the new mechanic, squares and triangles

trust

[hearty cedar]

Were they?

[hearty cedar]

Along with double sprint ex units or else they'll kill us like palmer

[fading walrus]

The worst EBE imo

Fuck that stage

[hearty cedar]

What did they have again?

I think I used nc.leaf on all of them so I never had an issue

[lunar sedge]

negative effect change or suffer

oh right the vileplume

it has sludge wave with guaranteed poison

[stable storm]

So beefed up alder ub?

[lunar sedge]

i'm not too sure if i would compare it to that

brock has towering force too iirc

[fading walrus]

all of them

[lunar sedge]

i remeber the period of time when it has no f2p clear lol

[fading walrus]

It's 1

Single

EBE

[hearty cedar]

Ooh

[fading walrus]

If it was 3 it would've been ez

But no

They bundled everything in 1

[lunar sedge]

yeah the issue was that they basically put out an EBE for 3 different pairs into one

[fading walrus]

Guaranteed status on aoe moves because of leaf

Needed rebuff/negative status change ofc

Had very very high bulk and good self buffing

The F2P clear was hellish

Needed M2 to proc confusion

And crit all syncs

[hearty cedar]

What did they buff?

Entire kanto?

[fading walrus]

Tanto

Kanto

Nothing else

[hearty cedar]

I probably used leaf with ss blue and someone else....probably ss red

[fading walrus]

It was just insanely annoying

[shrewd marten]

If u didn’t have

You needed to flinch it

[fading walrus]

You had to run blaine + antitoxin everyone

[shrewd marten]

If I’m being honest it wasn’t that hard

Like the unova one is way worse

[fading walrus]

I personally don't agree

[shrewd marten]

Because it forces rebuff

I did run anti toxin but I ended up not needing it

[fading walrus]

The unova one didn't have a sync wipe

[shrewd marten]

Turn denial is powerful

[stable storm]

is it the ace trainer very hard stage I keep seeing in br?

[fading walrus]

The damage of the unova ones in general was laughable

In comparison

[shrewd marten]

I don’t think br has ebes

[fading walrus]

That's the Gilbert BC iirc

[shrewd marten]

The unova one for nc bianca was quite damaging

[hearty cedar]

Oh I remember this one. Ss hilbert one was tricky

[stable storm]

ohhhh

[fading walrus]

Yeah but it had good alternatives

[shrewd marten]

Like what though

[stable storm]

it was easier f2p

[shrewd marten]

The alternatives are all paid

[stable storm]

lodge skyla and elesa

[shrewd marten]

You might be misremembering

[stable storm]

unova has some of the strongest f2p

[shrewd marten]

That one was physically impossible to f2p

[fading walrus]

And unova has a stacked accessible pool

[shrewd marten]

The one that f2p cleared I think was nc cheren

[stable storm]

was it the emboar one?

[hearty cedar]

Ss hilbert one was tough

[shrewd marten]

Unova has no trap or rebuff

[hearty cedar]

You need rebuffs + every opponent had different typing. I think we needed super effective too

[shrewd marten]

And the unova ebe said rebuff or screw you

We are talkin different things btw

[fading walrus]

You're not forced to run 3 unova

[stable storm]

Idt bianca ub said rebuff everyone

[shrewd marten]

You’re not but you said accessible

[stable storm]

because Bianca only rebuffs one enemy

[hearty cedar]

I'm talking about ss hilbert ebe

[stable storm]

I was talking to Kirby

[fading walrus]

Sure, but it's still a different story

[shrewd marten]

Wdym

[fading walrus]

Because the NC kanto ebe was hell because of RNG

[shrewd marten]

?

What rng r u taking about

Cuz cileplume is guaranteed poison

[fading walrus]

The Bianca one was annoying AF because of lack of unova coverage

[shrewd marten]

No way around that

[fading walrus]

Sure

But the kanto one was annoying AF because you either ran RNG denial to skip vileplume, run antitoxin sacking performance and risking dying to the super hard hitting sync or had to off region, and this when rebuff was INSANELY less common than it was 2 months ago

Even off region

Almost no units had rebuff last year

And no unit with rebuff had bulk to tank more than 1 move from onix

And the kanto ebe was 99% AoE

So yea

[shrewd marten]

You had to have exactly the kantrio to not deal with flinch rng yes, but at least it was doable with it, whereas there is truly no option for unova unless you summon for a rebuff unit

To be fair, it is very common these days to have one

But saying, have ncblue or ncrosa and ur fine

I don’t think that’s a good metric for if a ebe is more accessible

[fading walrus]

Was it doable?

We're comparing

[shrewd marten]

Yes

I did it f2p

[fading walrus]

• no f2p
  To
• insane RNG f2p

[shrewd marten]

Well I did it with less insane with ss red but I don’t think that’s a good comparison either

[fading walrus]

Gordie was an option Vs Bianca ebe

[shrewd marten]

I tried it

[fading walrus]

Not really Vs kantrio

[shrewd marten]

You cannot do it f2p with it

[fading walrus]

Sure

[shrewd marten]

You’d need another very strong unit with it and maybe it’ll work

[fading walrus]

But in kantrio Gordie legit couldn't survive 2 turns

[shrewd marten]

But at that point what’s the metric

But u didn’t need gordie

I don’t understand the comparison

[fading walrus]

The comparison is that unova has miles more usable units than kanto

[shrewd marten]

… no?

I did it with ssErika leaf blaine

[fading walrus]

When removing the featured units

[shrewd marten]

Where features there

[stable storm]

if kantrio was doable f2p then it's better than unova for f2p clears

[shrewd marten]

Ss red instead of erika as well very possible

If I had ss blue I would probably die less

Accessible but technically not f2p so I no use

[stable storm]

I do think unova ebe overall was easier

[shrewd marten]

Etc

[stable storm]

more people have rebuffers now and didn't require very specific limited units to f2p

[shrewd marten]

Yeah u just can’t f2p it

Brother what does that second sentence mean

[valid raft]

What is going on here?

[shrewd marten]

That’s definition not f2p

I’m saying the kantrio ebe wasn’t as hard as the unova nc bianca ebe

[fading walrus]

And I'm saying that the Bianca EBE still had more alternatives

Making it less obnoxious

[stable storm]

I was saying that if we aren't talking pure f2p then unova had more and better options

[shrewd marten]

I think so? But wasn’t the options literally ncblue and ncrosa?

[fading walrus]

And to offregion too

[stable storm]

because unova was more recent

[fading walrus]

Not really

You can run SS N + colress + skyla

And win still

[shrewd marten]

That is pretty neat

[fading walrus]

Another option I used was...

[stable storm]

Unova ebe had a lot more options but just wasn't doable f2p

[fading walrus]

Bellelba + Gordie + marshall?

Iirc

[stable storm]

I'd argue for f2p newer players unova ebe was harder and overall kanto ebe was harder

[fading walrus]

Yeah that's my complaint

Also

The thing that fucking sent me to the limit Vs kanto

Was getting crit nonstop

By AoE

Because you had to either denial or run antitoxin

That shit was absolutely aggravating

Also

Tbfh

We had a N ticket and there was a N + lodgelesa + skyla clear

So while not ofc "f2p friendly"

Hilbert P2 was clearable without scouting limiteds

I think the N in question was 4/5

So yeah ofc not very freebie friendly

[shrewd marten]

not even f2p newer player just f2p in general if you no get what they want u suffer

but i see ur point

there is more likely chance u can clear

[stable storm]

unova ebe was overall easier

just more pain for f2p

[fading walrus]

Ye

In general I find ebe which are bullshit for everyone more stupid than non f2p ones

[shrewd marten]

the reason i remember it is i think its the only ebe so far that has failed f2p

[hearty cedar]

Is this the ss N ebe?

[fading walrus]

No

The NC Bianca one

[lunar sedge]

SS N EBE was a joke among EBEs

Might as well be a BC instead

[eternal yacht]

Need help with these two challenges. Here's my Roster

[marble flume]

Who’s the Support with the glitched icon?

Also, are you certain this is your entire roster? Because iirc you mentioned having Emma previously when she’s not present here

[eternal yacht]

Oh yeah I keep forgetting to add her sorry , and the glitched character is Rachel , she keeps getting glitched everytime I take an image. Other than that , I'm certain this is my entire roster

[marble flume]

Ok, just making sure

For the 2 Rock mission you can probably do fine with SS Diantha + a filler Rock type + a solid Support to tank. For 2 Alola I’d recommend doing the Alola Villain Arc stuff in the Main Story tab for your 2 free Alola pairs (via the 5-star guaranteed Alola tickets), since right now it’d be pretty difficult to put together a well-functioning team with that restriction

[eternal yacht]

I was thinking SS diantha but they have an effect where they need to be statuse'd or you do no damage

[marble flume]

Ah, right

Is your Marley really only 1/5?

[valid raft]

SS Diantha + Kukui + Alola unit will fulfill both missions at once

[marble flume]

Where’s a Kukui in that roster, is the question

[valid raft]

Well, that I didn't see

I guess if they don't mind doing the missions one at a time, then I won't stop them

[marble flume]

Well unless they left some other pairs off their roster by mistake they don’t seem to have done all (if any) of Alola VA yet (their only Alola 5-star is a 1/5 Lusamine), so maybe they’ll snag a good couple of Sync Pairs to make it easier

[eternal yacht]

no shes 3/5

[marble flume]

Could grid her for Hostile Environment and use her as the Support then

And just reset if it takes more than 2 Flamethrowers (or Flame Wheels, if you’d prefer) to Burn

[eternal yacht]

alright thank you

and then i need a rock filler who helps with Gauge

Roxanne seems okay for that no?

[marble flume]

Marley can help with gauge too, but yeah, Roxanne should be fine for getting Speed buffs in earlier

• can buff Defense before SS Diantha starts doing that

[valid raft]

Do you have a BP Ticket?

[eternal yacht]

and wide guard for heat wave although seems very unlikely ill get that

[eternal yacht]

no sadly , i used mine on Erika already

[valid raft]

Well, I would've suggested BP Olivia so that you can do both missions at once while the 3rd unit is filler for countering the BC's gimmick

[eternal yacht]

rip

ill try to do the rock one first

[valid raft]

Doesn't matter

[eternal yacht]

as for alola ill have to do the villain arc im assuming

[valid raft]

It's just 1 BC anyways, while there are more in the future with missions like this

[marble flume]

It would make things easier

[valid raft]

For different regions

[marble flume]

You might be able to pull off 2 Alola with just what you have, but Villain Arc doesn’t have a stamina cost anyway, so no reason to not do it

[eternal yacht]

i guess these challenges are designed for the new units designated with them

[valid raft]

The same for extreme battles

[marble flume]

They’re designed to encourage pulling for the pairs, yes. But don’t scout them just for 1 Battle Challenge, you’re spending more than you gain

[eternal yacht]

like stakataka and nihelego , after reading their kits , they can easily just do them on their own

[valid raft]

Don't get them unless you're willing to use them in the long run

Like using it for content like CSMM and potentially UBs

[eternal yacht]

already spent 36.6k just for rei , i dont plan pulling until atleast anniversary

[paper mural]

Yes ppl never found out all f2p/genpool lineup for NC Bianca's EBE, but somehow found one for the NC Kantrio's EBE.

[eternal yacht]

thats why im trying to pull units i like to play with

honestly this is off-topic but i wish there were some trials or test battles you can use the units on before actually pulling

[valid raft]

Well, you know, powercreep

Doable with some F2P units, but require at least 1 limited unit. But clears in YT could surprise you

[eternal yacht]

for most things , i dont take advice or watch youtube or search on google , because ive done that once and was terribly misguided

[paper mural]

I watch yt for things like "how to do sing spam in DC" or "how is it possible for that team to beat UB/EBE".
I don't watch yt for the sync pair analysis videos.

[fossil fjord]

Sometimes I watch clear videos just to get a general idea of the stage and then use that knowledge when building my own team

[eternal yacht]

Ok I got Kukui and Lilie from the Alola VA , can I make something new with these?

[marble flume]

Probably still gonna need to do 2 separate clears, but for an Alola one you could potentially do…I guess Lillie + Hau + SS Diantha and reset until Hau gets a turn 1 Paralysis?

[eternal yacht]

With discharge?

And also can Kukui do anything to improve the rock team because I'm just not getting enough damage in , in time

[valid raft]

Spam Leer

Actually NVM

[eternal yacht]

Hmm?

[mental jasper]

someone thought they were in #1255888121648644197 I imagine

[paper mural]

Sophocle is a better Alola paralysis applicator and can flinch occasionally to help delay the opponents' sync.

[marble flume]

Unless they forgot to add him to their tracker they don’t have Sophocles

[eternal yacht]

Hmm is Sophocles a Story Pair?

If so I can get him I really need to do all the villain arc and story

[mental jasper]

nope Sophocles is from any banner's 4* pool

[eternal yacht]

Ahh rip

I don't want to pull just for a 4 star pair

[marble portal]

How good is SS Piers for the Leon UB?

Thinking he’s my best pick there.

[fading walrus]

He's fine if invested

Doubt 1/5 can do much without being paired with another strong abuser or two

[gentle wharf]

I hope future UBs don’t use accuracy debuffs or evasion buffs lol

[paper mural]

I think we're bound to see an UB about evasion gimmick one day.

[stone scarab]

i could see a dragon weak UB utilising evasion, a lot of the stronger dragon pairs have some way of neutralising it

[snow spruce]

Piecing Gaze is decently common, an evasion gimmick wouldnt be difficult

[stone scarab]

It would be more annoying that difficult

But it would be so incredibly obnoxious for some teams while being irrelevant for others, I really hope they don't do that sort of thing

[humble gyro]

same boat

cant beat thi shit

[clever widget]

Common UB moment

Good thing that you have 900 years to beat it

[snow spruce]

its good that PMEX has some difficult fights

[shrewd marten]

Isn’t that basically all ubs

[stone scarab]

not to the extent that evasion would be

[marble portal]

He’s 5/5 for me.

Idk ideal partners tho. SS Hau and SS Roxie are 1/5, and I don’t have NC Blue.

Nor do I have Ash or Thunderbolt.

[silver spruce]

I can tell you I did a ss piers clear and needed Roxie for the electric terrain MPR. Blue also hard carried that team

[distant estuary]

The Giovanni UB is so stupid

I might have to give up on it. The runs keeps getting scuffed

[stable storm]

any poison clears on gio yet

[low coral]

No

[stable storm]

Almost missed asking today

[paper mural]

Tbh it's rare to see ppl using them together especially in UB bc they have their own better teammates.

[silver spruce]

Yes but when the other option was red chu which isn’t invested I’d rather use roxie

[marble portal]

So are Roxie and Blue a must for Piers?

Or could I try something else

[fading walrus]

You can probably use something else too

Blue is definitely heavily recommended

[marble portal]

Maybe NC Rosa? Anyone got success with her?

[fading walrus]

NC Rosa team sustain ain't as good

Also no elec rebuff

And no status

[snow spruce]

NC Rosa doesnt do anything on leon UB and she isnt really a super amazing UB support in general

[marble portal]

Ah. Not sure who to use then for supports.

Best I can think of is HJasmine and I’m pretty sure she ain’t good for UBS

[hearty cedar]

I saw a clear with her, i think they used sc zinnia and akari with rosa

This is for gio ub ^

[marble portal]

I was referring to Leon.

[hearty cedar]

Ye rosa cleared leon ub

I used rosa + sstr + nate to clear

I think ppl used her with the ice core too

[marble portal]

Yeah don’t have the ice core

[hearty cedar]

Rosa works against leon

Sprint ex role + stacks are helpful

Let me find it

Nate killed leon and the right but sstr took the cooler pose by killing the left and only 1 scale shot was used that too in turn 1

[marble portal]

Don’t have Red. What’s Nate doing there?

[hearty cedar]

Enhances dmg with circle and deals dmg

[marble portal]

Ah.

I’m thinking my best option if I ever beat Leon is SS Piers.

[hearty cedar]

Also helps for syncing. His aoe sync is helpful to get sides to a particular range

[hearty cedar]

Piers should work extremely well

[marble portal]

I just need the right partners.

[hearty cedar]

Roxie + piers is a tried and true combo for leon ub

Do you have nc.leaf, anni N and ss morty?

[marble portal]

No, yes, no.

Roxie is 1/5.

N is 3/5.

[hearty cedar]

N works but sstr will be needed. Or do you have geeta?

[marble portal]

Don’t have either.

[hearty cedar]

Sstr and geeta are the only units to my knowledge that can bypass all of leon's gimmicks by themselves

N can handle status with reapplying paralysis but we'll need a field effect

I dont recommend 5/5 ss diantha

[marble portal]

Zekrom is 1/5 for me

[hearty cedar]

Oh you said N is....aaah anni N

What notable units do you have?

[marble portal]

Electric as a whole

[hearty cedar]

Damn, piers at 5/5

Should be good enough as sstr substitute ig

[marble portal]

That’s def my main damage dealer.

[hearty cedar]

Any great nuker?

[marble portal]

Prob not, at least ontype.

[hearty cedar]

1/5 zekrom will not be enough bcuz you need a nuker. Piers's nuke is bad and zekrom is 1/5

[marble portal]

I can at least get these nodes.

[warm haven]

you would need another ET setter anyways

[marble portal]

How many more uses?

Like would I need someone like Volkner/SS Roxie, or would CElesa be enough?

[hearty cedar]

Imo, there are too many good tiles for piers that it'd be shame to lose them for nuke

[warm haven]

what level is your roxie?

you need ET for the whole battle so elesa wont be enough

[hearty cedar]

I'd prefer this

Do you have ss roxie?

[marble portal]

1. Been debating candying since I got her tho lol

wait why is discord making that look weird

[warm haven]

Caked?

Maybe piers + her could work

[paper mural]

Let Piers apply paralysis by himself would be not preferable imo. It's not efficient and you lose dmg too.

[warm haven]

But you need a very good support

[silver spruce]

Blue hard carries piers and Roxie is the issue

[marble portal]

Not caked.

Can’t cake her yet anyway.

[silver spruce]

1/5 red would be an easy spot over Roxie if you have him

[marble portal]

Don’t have that lol

[hearty cedar]

I dont recommend candying her before checking the datamine

But she's soooo good that it wouldn't be a problem to candy her

[marble portal]

I got 7 candies anyway.

I legit haven’t used one in a year, when Gloria2 came.

[hearty cedar]

Then 3/5 your ss roxie, she's just too good

5/5 ss roxie cleared all ubs except giovanni with oleana and ss mina

[marble portal]

I don’t have Mina, but I do have Oleana.

Who is also under consideration.

Oleana is caked at least. Again, Roxie isn’t.

[hearty cedar]

Try to cake roxie later

Absolutely worth it

If you can do selects then I highly recommend picking ss mina

[marble portal]

Is she returning soon or something

[fading walrus]

I agree on Rosa not being insane for Leon but I don't agree at all on the "not amazing for UB" part at all lol

[hearty cedar]

No idea

Rosa is only "not good" for gio ub imo. She has her use for all other ubs

[fading walrus]

Even Vs Gio i think she's nice if your gio counters aren't properly leveled

[hearty cedar]

Ye, she worked with akari and sc zinnia

[marble portal]

Gio I haven’t even bothered. Zinnia ain’t leveled and no Akari.

[hearty cedar]

I'm pretty sure she'd work with akari and marnie too

[warm haven]

She kinda needs broken partners. Unlike blue, Cynthia and Mina she can't protect everything

[hearty cedar]

Its more like she needs gimmick nullifying partners

[low coral]

Rosa is often used as the gimmick checker herself

Her deal is more so she's not as defensively resilient as the others

So you'll see more offensive clears with her

Unless you get her to 4/5 at least, as that will net you better Potions

[hearty cedar]

Wait, 4/5?

I'm having great results with her with just 60-66 energy

What grid are you referring to?

[final yacht]

that's +8e

dunno if it's what he's talking about

[shrewd marten]

Rosa is more offensive than defensive

Naturally her performance scales the better the unit she’s enhancing

Worse units just need to live longer for an extra sync or something like that to make up for their lack of damage

Which is why ncblue and his ilk are better for them

Besides if anything Mina is the one that needs more broken partners

She herself can live forever basically but otherwise she isn’t doing much

[snow spruce]

? SS Mina is probably the best UB support in terms of countering gimmicks (on top of being bulky)

• has weather (manual)
• has zone
• has crit shield (counters Palmer and all other UB crit buffs)
• has AoE protect (for Noland, for Gios EQ etc.)
  Thats why she is on so many top UB teams of different types - Flying Poison Fairy Water.. She is objectively great
  Though she also got a bit lucky to counter Anabel and Nita, wheras Argenta (the rain UB) was much weaker. But still
  For me its (in UB) Mina > Cynthia/Blue > rest

[stone scarab]

in terms of antigimmick, she's really good, but in terms of actually enabling partners she isn't doing a ton unless the partners are of specific types

half the teams you listed are those specific types, and the other half are comprised of strong duo cores that can use her as a defensive anchor

[snow spruce]

Antigimmicks is the most important part. And she does enable Water (rain) and Fairy (fairy zone)
I mean she cant do +6 SpAtk +3 crit with one TM, but in UBs this is far less important than having, say, weather

[warm haven]

i would put mina first too. She has a cheat code for both palmer and noland, as well as countering all (current) weather gimmicks.

[stone scarab]

i more mean she can't do stuff like MUN stacking to increase power further. So she's either on Water or Fairy teams, or she's complimenting a duo that mostly just needs a defensive anchor / antigimmick component to them

[snow spruce]

Beating the gimmick/surviving is ~infinitely more important than having a few more SMUN stacks

[stone scarab]

yes, but sometimes you do need the extra power to break through the enemy

like Mina isn't taking a duo like Lucas and Zerena to levels of beating every stage, the duos she's working with need to be powerful on their own

not saying thats shes bad at all, but that was kirby's point

[warm haven]

same thing happens to rosa

[slate light]

how foolish i was to write off mina for being a tanky support

[snow spruce]

"taking a duo like Lucas and Zerena to levels of beating every stage" - no support is doing that, even remotely. So I still see Mina as #1

[warm haven]

if the duo is no strong enough she cant keep them alive

But no other support can get the flying duo through all UBs like mina does, even when she's totally unrelated to them

[snow spruce]

yeah the fact that a team with ANNI SKYLA beat all 10 UBs is crazy to me .. ofc NC Cheren brings the damage, but it also wouldnt be possible w/o Mina

[fast pendant]

well Mina got some tools sure, but her most used teams are the ones that also fix her main issues, as a setter she's very mediocre, no debuffs, no rebuff nor condition, lacks team dmg increase, her team healing is very weak compared to any other top tier supp

[snow spruce]

She allows the team to live to do damage and win
like NC Blue cant bring the weather and he cant protect the whole team from a ~Noland/Gio EQ or from a big crit - Mina can. Slower and steadier is her play style
this doesnt mean Blue is bad. But it does mean Mina is good. She was already proven to be good

[fast pendant]

we know she's good

she's a defensive unit that does her job very well, but she lacks in other points, she's just more lucky to have partners that complement what she brings

[warm haven]

Well, blue needs someone who changes weather and not all types use weather so you end up more limited

and his team options for palmer and noland are way less

[low coral]

I would 100% put Blue overall 1st

Some of those arguments imo don't hold up

[fast pendant]

mina being praised for being a weather unit is just extremely lucky to just be a rain unit, if she was sun or sand she wouldn't clear one of the 2 strongest

[low coral]

Like "Mina got a cheat code vs Palmer"

Most teams with Mina do not tank hits even without crit

You specifically need to aid Mina at doing that

Like bringing a debuffer

There's many better supports than her for that battle, including Rosa herself

[fast pendant]

yep

mina has some of the best debuffers as her main teammates for a reason

she would be a sitting duck in most battles without them

[hearty cedar]

I wouldn't take those stacks lightly especially with the current endures ub's have. Gives us better planning on timing our dmg to hit those endures

[hearty cedar]

Blue is definitely the 1st. His bmove is too good for ubs

[low coral]

I think it's more so Blue's debuffs

Which is actually the biggest thing Mina lacks

[fast pendant]

agreed

[stone scarab]

consistent debuffing for both offenses is just really good

[hearty cedar]

My main problem with nc rosa is just that I need to spend time with potions if I need to heal everyone instead of spamming my bmove. Nc.blue doesnt have that issue

[fast pendant]

rosa is just more offensive focused

[low coral]

Like, for as praises Mina is defensively, none of her comps tend to actually not have anyone also aiding her defensively

[hearty cedar]

If it wasnt for this issue, I'd have said nc.blue = nc.rosa for ubs when they were new(gio didnt exist back then) but nope

[low coral]

Where Blue and Rosa more often afford fully offensive teammates

[hearty cedar]

Imo, she's the 2nd best support

[warm haven]

Blue makes UBs more easy, as long as his teammates get rid of the gimmick. But he's gatekeeped by palmer, noland and the weather UBs

[fast pendant]

he's not gatekeeped 'tho

[hearty cedar]

Didnt he beat those with rats?

[fast pendant]

you just beat with other teams than usual

[hearty cedar]

Yeah

[low coral]

Blue's gatekept by Palmer in the same sense Mina is

They aren't hard carries for that stage

But they can still aid their usual good teammates

[warm haven]

There's only 1 clear in the doc with blue vs palmer that doesnt use Ash

[snow spruce]

debuffs are far more common on good dps than weather. Minas crit shield is also fairy unique, as is her AoE protect
they are also somewhat optional - you can tank the regular damage without them too and when it comes to the super boss damage (max move, 10 PMUN EQ, Gios buffs etc.) - blues -1 per turn debuffs wont save you at all

[fast pendant]

neither will mina if you take more than once

[warm haven]

And Ash is almost perfect for palmer, as well as having great synergy with blue

[true lagoon]

does it use chase instead

[hearty cedar]

Offensive and Defensive supports cannot be valued with same parameters

Offensive ones shine with offense with a bit of gimmick check while the Defensive ones lets their partners spam all the offense while they check the gimmick

[true lagoon]

did sst beat nita

im assuming no cuz she spams the shit out of ground moves

[hearty cedar]

Palmer:- i have 550k hp
Ash:- I'll take 350k of your hp with my btbolt

[hearty cedar]

I think the rats team did beat nita

[true lagoon]

what the hell

[paper mural]

SSBlue + SST Red + Irida cleared it.

[warm haven]

nah rats no, red + irida

[true lagoon]

oh

irida

yeah that checks but is there someone besides irida

[fast pendant]

well there's barely any clears without irida and/or chase

[warm haven]

But the point is, blue IS a better support overal, but in the context of UBs mina carries more variety of teams

[low coral]

I think carry is a very strong word

[fast pendant]

mina doesn't carry against any ub specifically

[paper mural]

No afaik. Weather + more speed debuff is actually super restricting.

[true lagoon]

well i do have chase but who would be the third

[low coral]

Like, a lot of those are also extremely RNG that you actively need someone grinding for it because it's not an usual clear

[hearty cedar]

Mina is awesome but she's definitely not THE best support for ubs. I truly admire her ability to make a lot of team comps clear ubs tho

[warm haven]

i mean, if you remove mina, you remove the fairy team from most UBs

as well as the flying team

[fast pendant]

sorry not chase meant cheren

[low coral]

Plenty of Mina clears with Flying involve the enemy self hitting with confusion on key turns

[true lagoon]

oh

welp gg

nita is fucking impossible

(fun)

[low coral]

Or Oleana having to get a Gunk Shot Staggering hit 4 Syncs in

[true lagoon]

(who designed this shit)

[hearty cedar]

Thats not even the worst part. Its the debuffs reset part nita has on her sync and her tm

[true lagoon]

ewwwww

does she cleanse status too

[hearty cedar]

I hate nita ub with a passion for halting my nc.nate clears

[true lagoon]

i wouldnt be surprised if she did

[fast pendant]

not most 'tho, you'll have trouble with some, but I'm sure they can do most without mina

[true lagoon]

cuz this just seems like a giant fuck you to sst

[boreal abyss]

[hearty cedar]

Not to my knowledge

[low coral]

It's not purely allowing the tankiness for the team, it's praying RNG makes you not get hit if you wanna do solo team comps full clears

[true lagoon]

tbh i dont know how you would do nita without irida

it just seems so overwhelmingly unfun without her

[hearty cedar]

I'm willing to bet that both ss gladion and ss wally would still find success. Maybe not together but they will

Like bro, I cleared almost all ubs with nate. Gladion and wally have their perks so they should be fine

[warm haven]

there's eggmon lapras clears v nita

[fast pendant]

irida doesn't directly carry vs nita as well

[true lagoon]

with who

[snow spruce]

Blue is obviously better than Mina everywhere outside UBs, but in UBs I have her as #1 support right now (with the current selection), no question. Personal opinion
Blue also benefits from having SST Red, he would have quite a lot less UB clears if that rat didnt exist. And he didnt get Sprint/Field role, that hurts a bit

[warm haven]

red and grusha/nc blue

[paper mural]

That's why you need more speed debuff units. In general -1 spe per turn is not gonna make it unless the main dd is NC Red. Most team need -2 per turn.

[true lagoon]

joy

[low coral]

Blue still slots in more teams in UBs than Mina

The only time he supposedly loses is in full clears with a specific team

But he does have more overall clears

[warm haven]

but the option exists because of her, the rng is because yeah she's not that great by herself

[low coral]

It's just that he swaps one slot more often

[hearty cedar]

Even then I need a turn denial. I simulated hs2 with rosa's sing and nc.red's tm gave me -1 to hit the sync after turn 2. That turn denial let me lower the speed more. Nita's speed was never at neutral thanks to that

[boreal abyss]

wherever you put blue he delivers

[true lagoon]

also i saw that they changed passive names like recuperation and synchro healing, was that this update

[boreal abyss]

no way in hell he isn't better than ss mina

case closed

[true lagoon]

i feel stupid for not being able to clear giovanni’s ub

[boreal abyss]

oh yeah i hate those new passives names

[true lagoon]

i know sst + ss misty and nc blue can clear

but i got to 11% first try then never got close again

[warm haven]

But how could cheren beat anabel without mina for example?

[true lagoon]

i think i got fucked by early flinch rng messing me up

[snow spruce]

except when its weather UB .. and Palmer .. and Noland

[hearty cedar]

The thing with ss mina is that she offers units the flexibility of clearing ubs with the same team for multiple types

It's all nice but pls remember that the units mina lets do all of this are the same units that can do the very same thing with different team comps if necessary

[boreal abyss]

don't ask me to do nc blue cheren anni steven

[low coral]

With KriSS

[boreal abyss]

please don't

i was considering it

[low coral]

And yeah, unironically, Anni Steven + Blue

[boreal abyss]

but i don't wanna go through anabel again

i just feel lazy

lmao

i blame lg

[warm haven]

ah right, but that souds hell

[boreal abyss]

moltres in particular

[fast pendant]

a lot of mina clears are hell with extreme rng

[low coral]

Yeah, but a lot of clears involving Mina + Cheren are hell and are done solely for the sake of being a full clear

[boreal abyss]

i think tho with some optimizations and turn denials nc blue cheren anni steven can pull it through

[hearty cedar]

Ss kris for anabel
Could use rosa for thorton
Darach is whatever
Morty for argenta
Rosa for palmer
Probably rosa for lucy

I can keep going

[snow spruce]

Flying Posion Fairy and Water teams all owe their 8-10 UB clears (with the same team) to SS Mina. No other support could replace her there

[true lagoon]

lucy’s ub really does feel like a joke ngl

like compared to everyone else its not even close

[marble portal]

Lucy is stupid easy

[true lagoon]

i know

thats what im getting at

[marble portal]

and if it’s any bigger joke, SS Gio has Antitoxin ON HIS GRID

[true lagoon]

its so ridiculously undertuned relative to other ubs

[marble portal]

so you don’t have to sacrifice lucky skill

then again I have +10 energy so….

[true lagoon]

i mean half of her gimmick is literally stopped by a gen pool (courtney)

just need half decent luck for trip up and she should never be above neutral speed

[low coral]

And like Runner mentioned before, a lot of those praises are also structered based on the stages released

Mina isn't praised for being a weather support, she's praised for removing weather without being sun

[true lagoon]

ngl the real cancerous shit about lucy is the fact she has potent toxin 2

just lose 40% of your hp if you are poisoned

[low coral]

Swap Morty's and Mina's weather and the praises would most likely be reversed for UBs

[true lagoon]

and again it shouldnt be an issue but im lazy and im not about to roll for antitoxin on 29 different units

[warm haven]

i mean yeah

[hearty cedar]

Yes. With the condition of "same team" no one could replace her

But without that self imposed condition, you can observe that all the units that mina lets do that are the same units that can still succeed in different comps

Mina's greatest strength is allowing ppl to clear ubs with just 1 specific team but that can also be said about blue and rosa who can let ppl theory craft a strategy to beat those stages

Its about quantity vs quality

You want 1 specific team? Get mina(tho blue's electric comp does beat most)

You can have a bit of flexibility with your dmg choices? Then blue and rosa are the best ways to go

[warm haven]

Rain end up being the second best weather for UBs

but nobody talks about kriss

[true lagoon]

is hail the best then cuz it doesnt directly benefit anyone

[fast pendant]

well kriss is not considered that good in general

[paper mural]

Funnily Lucy still doesn't have any all genpool lineup clear purely bc her sides are too fat.
Even Courtney can take the center down before the 2nd sync, the sides becomes the problem.

[true lagoon]

they have like 250k hp right

[warm haven]

currently yes, but more because there's not a Hail UB

[stone scarab]

200k

[low coral]

Well, KriSS is a big reason on why Mina isn't as talked about on Water as much as other types, but KriSS herself is not that strong of a support compared to the true big guys

[warm haven]

rain has basically a 2nd place secured because argenta is a joke

[boreal abyss]

the best weather is weather wipe 9

[snow spruce]

yeah its true, Mina got lucky so far with some weather UBs. But thats what we have to work with. Her contributions are pretty hard to replace
Compared to debuffs and rebuff that Blue has - there's a million dps that can do that nowadays
And SS Morty doesnt have crit shield or AoE protect, so he wouldnt fully replace Mina even if he had rain

[low coral]

And that's despite Cerena being one of the top UB units of all time

[hearty cedar]

Bcuz we never try her. Her bulk is not good compared to mina especially on the physical side and we are all used to being in awe of mina letting team comps clear all ubs that we cheer for her to keep doing the same.

Ss kris is an offensive buffer and if we truly wanted that role, we always pick nc.rosa

[fast pendant]

you say that bc Blue shows up way more vs nita than mina

'cause his debuffs are extremely valuable

[snow spruce]

But its not just one specific team. its at least FOUR very different teams - all hinging on Mina

[fast pendant]

while mina rains are not enough

[low coral]

Flying hinges much more on Cheren

[snow spruce]

Blue is great, I just think Mina is better with the the current 10 UBs. And blue contributions are easier to get from the dps than hers
also having SST Red helps a lot^^

[low coral]

He's the one who carries both on all of the clears

The team that hinges the most on Mina specifically there is the Fairy one

[warm haven]

what about poison

[snow spruce]

Flying would not have 10 clears without Mina. Take her out and those 10 fall apart

[hearty cedar]

Yes, thats why I want to get and max out mina. She anchors multiple teams for all ubs and I love her for it

Like I said, its really a preference issue. Quantity vs quality like I mentioned above.

I wouldnt play the "she got lucky with the weather" card bcuz that'd be like saying "nc.red got lucky with the ex role" which changes nothing but it feels like ppl are either highballing or lowballing ss mina

"Ss mina allows multiple comps to beat all ubs in the same team, she's the best" but the units she supports can all find success in different team comps too

"Ss mina got lucky with rain, otherwise she wouldn't be as good" and? It's not like she's gonna lose rain dance from the kit so lets focus on the performance alone

[low coral]

Poison uses Mina more so for gimmick check and because there's no actual Poison support

[hearty cedar]

Imo, for the flying clears, I feel like the importance rating is

Cheren > anni skyla(for her debuffs) > ss mina

[fast pendant]

depending on what a poison supp brings you could change the current poison duo

considering they have very strong dmg/enablers

[low coral]

Idk about Skyla or Mina, but either of those are easily replaceable if you go on individual clears

Cheren just isn't, you most likely have to change the entire core

[hearty cedar]

A small correction. "Flying would not have 10 clears without mina IF we wanted the same team"

Flying core would still win with something else and if it cant then cheren can always ditch anni skyla too

[hearty cedar]

True. Cheren hard carries flying clears

[snow spruce]

Sure. but when Mina is objectively the best support for 4 teams - Flying Poison Water Fairy
doesnt that make her really amazing?

[warm haven]

Well if mina makes the comp so versatil that makes them beat all UBs that has its merit

[fast pendant]

she's not objectivly best support for 4 teams

she's not the best supp for all clears

you're just keeping the same team

[low coral]

Well, an EX role is a kit quality, having which weather matter against the enemy is more so related to matchup luck

[hearty cedar]

I'm not saying you are wrong. You are absolutely correct IF we wanted those units to clear all ubs with the same team

[low coral]

It doesn't change the team synergy or anything

[hearty cedar]

Not the point I was trying to make

[snow spruce]

But how is doing these clears with different teams/support more impressive than with 1 ?

[fast pendant]

what does impressive have to do with anything

[low coral]

It can be impressive, but it can also be not efficient

[hearty cedar]

I was trying to make a point of "why bother about talking about a unit theoretically not getting what they already got"

[warm haven]

i guess it depends if you value more versatility or power

[fast pendant]

there's a better supp for each clear and mina is not the best for all the cases

[low coral]

Like, in theory, a team that has confusion on it can be far more versatile if the enemy always hit themselves

But it won't be efficient

[snow spruce]

It makes Mina very impressive in UBs. l Which is why I have her at #1 . What other factor trumps this?

[stone scarab]

Mina's the one that let's the team remain the same for all of them, but for the fights there are supports that will work better individually

[fast pendant]

you're dealing with extreme rng to prove a point instead of just choosing to actual deal with the gimmicks by using other supps

[low coral]

Tbolt Red + NC Blue core is used because it's extremely efficient while the third is very easily adapted

There's no Mina core that can compare to that

[snow spruce]

"there's a better supp for each clear" thats definitely not remotely true. She is a must on some of those (though not on all)

[hearty cedar]

It truly is impressive and all of us without a doubt want this feat to keep continuing. But remember one thing

Impressive =/= Best. It could be close to the best but not the best. I'd rate mina as one of the most important supports for ubs but not above blue and rosa

[fast pendant]

she's a must in very few

in which she actual deals with the gimmick

fairy doesn't need mina to beat Palmer for instance

[hearty cedar]

Um...ss kris is definitely better for anabel than mina

Blue or rosa with rebuffs are better for thorton

Darach is whatever. Even bulu can fill in for wtz

Morty for argenta or heck, ss kris again for her bcuz most of argenta's attacks are special

Rosa for palmer

Anyone for lucy(i prefer rosa's offensive boost)

Blue for leon

Blue or rosa for nita

Grusha for noland is definitely better than ss mina

Penny imo is better than ss mina for giovanni

This is coming from someone who wants to get and 5/5 mina btw

[fast pendant]

I think Fairy only has Mina as a must vs Leon

which iirc is extremely rng

[warm haven]

all of them are true except for lucy, give her credit for having team whimsical inmunity

[hearty cedar]

I think fairy almost always prefer ss mina

[fast pendant]

prefer sure

but he said must

which is not really the case

[hearty cedar]

Oh yeah true, I forgot she has that

[hearty cedar]

Fair

[fast pendant]

and fairy is the ones where mina shines the most since she plays into master passive and zone time

[hearty cedar]

If poison gets poison type ss mina then ss mina will be dropped by the poison core. Like poison zone + hail(damn you avery, you had one job)

[snow spruce]

I get all that, just dont fully agree. I think Mina has been the best SO FAR. Those 4 teams are super impressive in part thanks to her
and I have Blue on par with Cynthia (the only reason she might seem less impressive is because Blue has SST Red and she doesnt have an equivalent OP fighting unit for UBs .. that and I dont really value atk/spatk debuff as high as some do - they are great, but not essential + many dps provide them anyway .. if he had Sprint I would have him above Cynthia probably)
Rosa I probably dont even have in the top 3 (in UBs) .. maybe top 4-5ish.

[hearty cedar]

Ss mina has the best synergy with the fairy team