Damage balancing

[feral loom]

Yesterday it came to my attention that an inferno Ravager gets two shot by a powered up shadowscale blast.

That.... Is kinda bs. If IR gets two shot the ASD is going to get one tpped by a normal shot at this point. And Blitz? probably tapped by a fully charged shot.

So do some damage balancing. I don't think it's very fair that something that takes so long to grow gets smashed into the ground with two measly shots

(I mean i heard something about them 3 shotting FS as elders so, yea... balancing needed. Though I didn't see this with my own eyes so I don't know)

[ivory mulch]

Full charge SS does 40% to FS, 70% to IR and 100% to ASD.

[feral loom]

In a time where it's so difficult to upstat I don't see why they would make it so easy to die as well

[strange nexus]

Plus with IR short fire range, its useless in the air imo. Gotta get close to your target .. but desync makes that pain.

On the ground, asds and ss can just not be near it lol IR is weak.

[timber stump]

Yes fights should take MUCH longer. Have it be 20 shots! Not 2 or 5. Quick deaths are just annoying when you have to regrow a dragon for hours.

Quick deaths only work in games that have fast respawns like shooters

[robust smelt]

it’s a 2 shot with a full charge, which you have to aim properly to actually hit

and you lose all your bile once it is shot

[ivory mulch]

@robust smelt yes or it is 2 charge shots not at full with quicker refill SS is taking hard counter to literally

[robust smelt]

i feel like the damage and everything else is fine, but bile recovery needs a slight nerf

i enjoy SS being able to actually defend itself honestly

and being a real threat to the fire breathers^

[blazing nacelle]

It just feels a bit jarring that the damage done to FS vs IR is such an insane difference. I know IR is supposed to be "squishier" but it feels a bit... Too much?

[abstract pasture]

Maybe it’s just me but I feel like absolutely 0 people should lose their dragon that takes hours to grow in 2 hits. That is absurd.

Fights should be fun not “I must shoot first to win”! That feels so counterintuitive and unbalanced. I would honestly suggest taking a look at the isle or PoT to get an idea of a fairly balanced system.

[robust smelt]

ehhh

the isle's combat isn't the best rn

esp with the recent re-introduction of the Dilo with the venom system

[abstract pasture]

Imo it’s better than what we have in DoD

[robust smelt]

i feel like IR could probably benefit from a health buff rather than nerfing the SS, as well as a higher plasma resist

[abstract pasture]

Honestly all dragons should have a “can take 10 shot or more” health buff. It’s just ridiculous that you grow a dragon for 3 hours and lose it in 3 seconds.

[abstract pasture]

Idk if you’ve played recently, but they have fixed a lot of issues with it. It doesn’t last long, and it’s easier to counter.
Imo there should be better ways to counter enemies in DoD, but only time will give us that with more creatures.

[edgy galleon]

slightly buff plasma res, extend fire breath range to a little shorter than fs (since ir is faster), and fix the jump off the ground. leave the ss alone

[robust smelt]

Yeaaahhhh

[robust smelt]

if you get snuck up on, yeah, that's why it's always good to play with other people if you can
(also another reason why i avoid pvp is cause i'm a solo)

tbh the isle is the same thing

[edgy galleon]

trying to land 10 shots on a moving flying target as an ss without the other person healing is just a bit much.

[robust smelt]

you get snuck up on and lose a dinosaur you've been growing for 8-9 hours

[robust smelt]

It's not just Dilo's venom being an unblanacing issue

other things too, like just...deino LOL

[abstract pasture]

Tbf all values would need to be adjusted for this to work. Like yes no dragon should be 2 shot, but you shouldn’t be able to heal to full health while being actively chased.

[abstract pasture]

Not really. In TI it’s mostly about decisions. You gotta make the smart call whether to fight or run. But sometimes there is inevitable unfairness, like a carno running down a single raptor. That’s life. But it shouldn’t be every encounter that you’re constantly getting shot down. In DoD it’s whoever attacks the other first. There’s not really a fairness to it because there’s no time to react. It’s just boom dead.

There has to be room for both is what I’m trying to say here. Yeah you can get the drop on someone and do a bunch of damage, but you shouldn’t outright kill them just because you bit first.

[robust smelt]

no, you'd be shocked

the isle's balance is completely out of wack rn

i feel like there's nothing wrong with SS's damage, esp considering it takes a full bile bar to do that kind of damage

2 full bile bars actually

[abstract pasture]

Like I said, values would need to be adjusted across the board for balancing to work.

Also I’m not just talking about SS. All the dragons need a balance adjustment.

[robust smelt]

everyone seems to be targeting SS specifically because it's actually able to kill the two firebreathers without having to use 10 full bars of bile

[blazing nacelle]

I'm more for buffing IR than nerfing SS atm but that's just me

[summer dune]

still combat is way to fast to be enjoyable. this is a game where you grow majestic powerful fantasy beings and hope for game of thrones dragon action. not some quick call of duty kill style fight.

[robust smelt]

combat speed really depends on the player,,, the current FPS issues kinda make fights seem prolonged honestly

[runic ore]

Considering that the devs have said it's supposed to take two class 4 dragons (SS) to take out one class 5 dragon (FS/IR) because of the difference in class, power, and size, an SS being able to two shot a fully grown IR on it's own without any help whatsoever is VERY out of whack of what's been stated combat balance wise. It's not supposed to have that much fire power, even if it takes two fully charged bile bar shots to do it. The SS is the fastest flying large dragon, and can easily run circles around an IR or FS until it regains it's bile and just repeat the process until dead. That's not fun at all to die that quickly and not being able to do anything in return, especially considering the IR is supposed to be a "in your face, burn and bite you to death" archetype playstyle. It's essentially a berserker versus a sniper rifle. It's a sitting duck for something it's size and strength.

That's not taking an elder SS into consideration. Once a dragon elders, it essentially bumps itself into the next tier and that would then make the SS class 5. At that point, it's fine for the power it has because it's now class 5 vs class 5

If they don't fix the power scaling on dragons like the SS now, when the brood watcher comes in, it's a literal free meal. It has virtually no range capability other than the spikes on it's tail, and once it uses that it has to wait a long time to regrow them so it can use it again. Against something fast and nimble like the SS, a class 7 brood watcher wouldn't stand a chance in a fight because it's bulkiness and inability to fight at range whatsoever for a prolonged time with the current power scaling.

[robust smelt]

with fully charged bile *

[still solar]

i just did some pvp testing today
SS is now really balanced in everything but in its plasma damage, its cloak is in its days ever, speed, resistances ETC
but 1 blast taking as much health as armor from IR?????
and, 1 FULL CHARGE can get an IR to 16% HP and 23 armor!!!!!!
2 charges KILLS IR, 2 charges KILL AN FS!!!!!!
2 charges kill an SS too!
this is really unbalanced, i think its shots are really good on asd/FS/SS for now, but IR is so horrible, it atleast needs more plasma resist also charged plasma gotta deal less damage

also, IR fire is useless lmao

i love how SS is an ambush attacker, FS is a bit of a nuke dragon/Tank/ASD is also a good one but IR is just in a really wierd spot with its horrible resistance to SS shots, plus its fire range, its land speed and its really low HP.... i love that it counters FS really really good but it would be horrible to ruin that since it cant run on land, and it cant fight off ASDs on land or SSs on land or even in the sky it just needs longer fire range with more HP thats it

[timber stump]

I really wish battles took longer, gives players more opportunities to turn the tide in battle or run away

[ivory mulch]

I like battle system but I wish class 5 felt like class 5 and 4 felt like class 4. Right now class 4 is better at everything except for HP which is pretty garbage for those who enjoy class 5 dragons.

[still solar]

for real! i wish class 5 was at least having more restances, or a bit more HP so it gotta be 4v1 by class 4
same goes for class 3 VS class 4

[ivory mulch]

ASD is 3 and feels like it. Has strengtha and currently is very balanced. But it does die to everything if cought, and unlike the SS It can be caught.

[robust smelt]

asd has needed a speed buff since legacy LOL

it’s the slowest creature in the game despite not being able to fly and having very few hiding places

[glossy relic]

blitz has around 80% plasma res, theres no combat balancing needed, we are talking about a dragon that is 100% imune to fire so its gotta be weak to something, its like having a level 100 charzard yk, fire does nothing but a single bubble blast might drop him by 40, it isnt bs the only difference is that the inferno is the only dragon right now to be fully invested into what its made to do, like if a guy that was at the gym and benching 400 pounds became a construction worker, hes made for it but maybe child care wouldnt be his best job, sumerize, its the only dragon to fully invest into 1 skill so its gonna have 1 LARGE weakness

[feral loom]

Let's be real I can say the sky is blue and you'd disagree with me

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Sorry to disagree but it does need some balance. 100% immune to fire so it can trail and kill FS while flying which is a fine trade because it has abysmal flame range. But it is a class higher than SS and blitz and currently it doesn't just lose to them it cannot do anything to really fight back.

IR is too slow with low range, low resistance and low HP to fight both blitz and SS which both dragons are class 4. If IR is changed to class 4 it would make more sense with its current stat pool, except its exceptional bite power, which is why the dragon is fun atm.

Biggest problem I see is once the desync problem is mostly fixed and blitz is out the IR will not be a playable dragon. It will die to fast in air battles and it cannot defend itself with current flame range, at least the FS can flame things that get to close even if it is too slow to keep up. IR you have to fly into its mouth, not close but literally through it to take damage and damage is still to low because you leave its flame range before it does more than one tick of damage.

[glossy relic]

and i disagree with your disagreement, you just said that its imune to fire and still want to make it fight plasma dragons? thats the trade your getting, 100% fire immunity for crap plasma resistance which lightining is plasma so its weak to plasma

[ivory mulch]

It should lose to SS and possible blitz, at least 1 of them so it has counter play but losing to both and not just losing but dying in 2-3 shots is bad for gameplay. lower its pierce resist and give it hp so it can fight FS the same way it currently does in bite fights but has better HP vs SS and blitz. IR needs something it is currently really bad unless you are playing vs bad players and I really like the dragon but it does not have a real place in the game once desync is gone.

[glossy relic]

its bad since nothing can counter it, asd can demolish fs and ss can also easly outfly fs in turning but nothing is being changed about it, its dps with bad resistance, and gives mega bleed, having dragons from the same element aka plasma being a threat to a fire type dragon is plausable, as i said its pokemon plasma beats fire in this game so its weak to plasma, and yes lightning is plasma

[ivory mulch]

Question is what makes IR a class 5 dragon to you Toothless?

He is slower than class 4
He only does damage if he lands on you
He has less stamina than class 4
He has less range than class 4
He has even HP to class 4 except incase of fire which he is immune

If IR was a class 4 dragon that took 2 hours to grow instead of 3 he would be balanced since he is a melee flyer but as it stands the IR does not fill any prerequisites of a class except for BITE damage and fire resistance. with his extreme specialty in anti FS combat just make him a class 4 dragon or buff him to be worth 3 hours of growth.

[runic spoke]

The dmg is balanced...
Bc the fs is stronger then the ss. The ss is stronger then the ir and the ir is stronger then the fs bc of the fire dmg. Asd is just killing everything with bile but is also pretty dead to their fire

[languid quail]

Honestly all the dragons could benifit from a scaled up health bonus, the fights do need to be longer for skill to be a part of play, instead of “oh tehe i oneshot you because youre a slow goober” and they fly off happy abt killing you so quickly, and are instead encouraged to plan a fight strategically instead of a hit first

[runic spoke]

the hp boost are better stats
U need to work hard for it but get a benefit for ur work

[languid quail]

No offense, try out the dragonborne server and see how well “upstating” is viable there

[runic spoke]

had none of these fights in the last 2 weeks... Thats caused of the skill and ppl behind u

Yes u cant handle 5 really good ss behind ur fs when u dont know what to do. But its still balanced in 1v1s

[runic spoke]

Its terrible but its still the way to get the benefit

Its better then giving everyone more hp
Bc then stats will still be boosted

[languid quail]

If its just a health bonus to everyone its fine is my get-go, fights between giants shouldnt be finished so quicky if you got a cheeky ss just camping out around you that can two hit ya with a plasma bolt then run off xD

[rancid skiff]

take an fs with you? whats the problem

[ivory mulch]

@runic spoke FS/IR are class 5 dragons, SS and soon to be blitz are class 4, ASD is class 3.

ASD has the lowest damage hp and speed but makes up for it with a poison like effect to those who dont/cant wash. Weakest but has a catch

SS has low HP with highest burst damage and DPS

FS fills class 5, it is tanky slow and hits hard. It can win a 1v1 vs SS if depending on SS skill

IR only wins 1v1 vs ASD and only if the ASD doesnt use spit range to harrass it. The 1v1 with FS is 50/50 in a bite fight but FS has better turn radius

IR always losses to both class 4 ATM which makes it not really a class 5

[languid quail]

The problem is they can just run off and repeatedly camp out around you till they heal, then come back. Fs and ir can’t really go up to them in most scenarios

[runic spoke]

And if u play each dragon with a high skill u can make it really dangerous hehe. Every fs, ir and ss which is landing, needs to take care of asds. If ur out of stam and biled, ur just dead

The fs can burn the ss pretty easy but also the ss can shoot at the ss. Its all abt teamwork. Yes we have different classes but its all able to play in 1v1s :3
All dragons have their benefits and more hp would not be useful to be fair. Just upstat if u want more hp in my opinion

[runic spoke]

Not if u do it right. in a 4v4 u can take 2fs and 2ss
If one ss is running, ur ss can follow it and finish it. The fs will fly in the same direction

[languid quail]

Not everyone has a full fledged group off the get go, in most cases as well

[runic spoke]

IR is just useless tho xD
But I just can play it. It cant get up that easy and his flame range is useless for me. Still fs main

[runic spoke]

then let the ss run and get out too

But mostly u have a grp in pvp with u. But thats still no reason to get every dragon more hp. In the isle u also have a balancing like that. Idk if u played this game

[languid quail]

Ive played the isle but i wont lie its alot more balanced than being lets say if a herra vs a carno and a herra wins; comparing ss and ir as such xD

[runic spoke]

raptors vs stego

Raptor vs teno

[ivory mulch]

In a 4v4, 5v5 or 6v6 the IR does not have a place. The SS will/do kill it before bite fights happen on good players, the higher the skill of the players the less IR is useful with its current stat pool. FS can land and get stam if the IR lands the SS take 70% of its HP with 1 shot.

I do not thin the FS needs anychange except heatvision which is useless.

SS need some sort of invis change currently it is too strong, because they 1 shot ASD and almost 1 shot IR. They are too safe for their damage.

IR only have melee damage going for them they need changed to be a class 5 or just make them a class 4 which is the stat pool they fill.

ASD dont need change they are perfect right now.

[languid quail]

Usually the raptors no offense get clapped; think of it in a 1v1 and not a 20v1

[sonic skiff]

I'm honestly sad IR got such a weird combination of flaws, was so excited to actually be able to vibe with it but it just feels like a waste of time and energy to grow on pvp

[runic spoke]

to be fair I got safed last time bc of the fire of the inferno while I was healing my bleed

and this invis is good for the ss tho

u can still see it
But its finally able to play

[sonic skiff]

ppl have been saying they want the invis changed which is gonna be i n t e r e s t i n g

[languid quail]

Honestly in all seriousness ir does need a rebalance to a say so; its not really viable against ss, asd is dependent on skill diff, but maybe with fs depending on player

Just saying “oh well go upstat” against a fundamentally uneven platform doesnt fix all the problems

[runic spoke]

the fights on fs are way more interesting with the cloaked ss
Also when Im on ss its really good. Makes also the change that u can go in as a solo player, charge and go out invis and 10 ss cant swarm u that easy

[sonic skiff]

I mean tbf glass cannons aren't gonna be everyones cup of tea but this is a glass cannon getting messed over in the one aspect its supposed to be good at, which is the damaging. low range and stuff isn't doing it any favors

[sonic skiff]

ikr im loving ss now, but people really don't like that cloak isn't draining anymore

[runic spoke]

Train more
We attacked in legacy with 5 E spawn fs 1 elder fs and a ton of adult fs. All 18A of them

[languid quail]

Iirc ss has a further range than bith firebreathers

[languid quail]

I dont think you fundamentally understand the statement

Ill all terms; a ss shouldnt be able to one to two shot irs when theyre on even stats of one another

[rancid skiff]

but you are talking from "full charged" shots, not normal ones.
so there is a lot of time to get the bile back between this shots
also think about, how many energy is in this shot, the hole back is glowing etc.

[runic spoke]

I did but the fights are more then long enough. And if u hide ur asd, it cant get a charge that easy. Try to hit ur charge on a moving asd. Try to flame a ss in the air when he is getting out of the range.

And the ss was so weak... Finally more ppl can play it. Yes the ss can charge the asd. But when the asd is hiding or keep moving, u cant hit it. When the ss is crashing and the asd is biling it one or two times... rip
And dont forget ur talking abt a full charge. U need to load it up, aim and if u fair, u need to recover for ages

As higher the skill base if of the community on the server as longer will the fights be

[languid quail]

You make viable statements to anyone but the ir

Im on about irs just, uselessness in most cases

[rancid skiff]

you cant say this after 2 weeks. IR has to find his place in the game and people have to learn how to fight and get good on it
we already had some fights and he was a gamechanger

[runic spoke]

The ir is too weak but idk maybe we just need to learn it. At the start I also died on ss the whole time and now my ss is there since day1
Yesterday in the training someone did pretty good on ir

[languid quail]

Im waiting on ganorax’s statement before contactinuing; they make pretty good statements so im pausing to see it lmao

[ivory mulch]

I like the SS changes I just think they over did it. SS currently are the strongest dragon by a large amount on good players. They are too safe for the damage they provide. Yes large groups of FS still counter them but safe playing SS are nearly impossible to kill and can safely kill IR and ASD without counter play. Either hit the cloak so they are slightly less safe going into or out of fights, or their damage so they dont kill IR so easy with the class difference.

Like i posted in SS change make cloak have a heavy cost so they have to think before using it because nothing can catch them anyways until blitz comes out and they according to lore counter blitz.

[languid quail]

Yeah that sounds accurate

Honestly the cloak should be more costly, a high damage but also high stealth dragon can ahoot you and just go completely invisible and dip, unless you have an fs; but theres never a guarantee youll have a fs to accist you actually doing anything

Ss has prey eyes too of all things? Meaning theoretically theyre a prey style get outta there and only fight when cornered typa guy, instead of pred eyes which means they hunt; but thats not applicable here even to those physical traits

Theyre just kinda, weirdly buffed compared to the swuishy jellybean ir

[ivory mulch]

IR should be tanky like the FS because with how close range they are they cannot fight SS/blitz anyways why not just make them tanks like class 5 dragons should be lol

[wary ether]

imho opinion and hot take, but eldering and upstatting should be disabled on dragonborne. it should stay a leveled ground for solo players and new solo players

[sonic skiff]

where'd u come from- XD

[languid quail]

Honestly i do kinda agree, clans just bypass around into groups and absolutely destroy smaller groups I’ve noticed

[wary ether]

replying to this lmao forgot

[sonic skiff]

that does sound like a good idea tho

we need at least ONE server that can be more gentle on the solos and new people who flow in

[languid quail]

Drahonborne is just awful atm when it really is a clan disabled server

But theres still like

Clans? Like xd

[wary ether]

I’d call them discord friend groups lol

[languid quail]

Clan discords are that

Im in a few but refuse to participate in that stuff, it’s annoying

[runic spoke]

Ill answer later, we are fighting rn
Since 10min already

[languid quail]

Training ill do, just not going to a clanless and acting like a clan

Are you with a clan or are you solo caro

Is it a 1v1 or a 4v4

There’s differences lmao

[wary ether]

yea it can be annoying. fun to play against if they’re unable to hunt you down, but even that gets annoying when they chase you for 30+ minutes for killing one of their members because they’re being annoying lol

I was playing solo on dragonborne for a while but eventually stopped because it got repetitive and ASD was the only viable playable against said groups

[languid quail]

Asd in dragonborne is truly the only viable; and i like how i can speak abt my experience of how ss feels op in most situations other than to its own kind is seen as a skill issue when its, just not

[wary ether]

grow an ir? get killed nearly instantly by their ss they can quickly switch to. grow an ss? get chased down by their ss and ambushed by the asds

good luck growing fs

[languid quail]

This^

Only thing ive seen ss die to is OTHER SS

Rarely other dragons

[wary ether]

I’ve killed an ss with asd but only because they got confident on the ground with their group lol other than that they’re pretty much untouchable if they’re careful

[languid quail]

Pretty much if they get conf is when theyll die

Like ive plyed as ss alot, i can vouch its really viable vs pretty much everything by shooting running away, returning and shooting

Ir in comparison is just, pathetic ngl

[wary ether]

I couldn’t grow an ss for the life of me because every spawn was camped and checked regularly when I was trying to grow lol ir and asd were the only two I managed to grow

so I have a decent amount of experience fighting them but unfortunately not fighting as them

ir is very pathetic

[languid quail]

I just spawn as ss and full invis cloak till i need food water

Work’s usually

[wary ether]

I did but man

the water always had to be checked when I needed it the most

I eventually stopped trying because I figured I’d be chased down anyways by ss as an adult

[languid quail]

XD sounds accurate in db

I just live out at the borders and other random places

Is it annoying still? Yeah, i dont want a whole clan up in my buisness on a clanless server

But it happens

[wary ether]

I actually feel like dragonborne should take a little bit of The Isle inspiration and have more group limits, including species-only grouping (the limit to the group shouldn’t include hatchies)

maybe have it so you have to friendly call someone in order to invite them to the group

not being able to instantly change dragons would be a major QoL improvement too

it won’t solve every single issue, but it’ll help if even just a little

[languid quail]

Yeah that i can agree

[runic spoke]

depends on the time
When Im logging in without the clan Im also able to fight 3v1 on my E-Spawn fs. 2v1 most of the time. They die or run mostly. So if u know how it works, its pretty easy to kill ss

But Im also playing on a hardcore mega clan pvp server, so I want clans against me and also I want to fight with clans. But its not like Im just able to fight with a clan

[runic spoke]

I also got 4v1 sometimes and we turn it into a 4v2 and then they are just running

[runic spoke]

If u know how its no big deal tho

We have ppl in the clan who were growing 3fs per day without protection

[half epoch]

Brood mother was stated not to be a fighter, but a defender. It takes care of the children, and most people wouldn't nest in the open. They nest in a cave where that ranged spike tail attack would be very useful.

[runic spoke]

What Im reading here is - and dont take that personal pls - ppl who need to learn a lot in pvp and want to get boosted bc they dont want to train. Thats what I see. U have the possibility to upstat ur dragons. YES this is a ton of work. Im nesting 10h every day. But I want this benefit of 18A tho. They gave us the possibilty to get this boost. Atm it is balanced. U cant just put 2 asds in and win. Also not like 2 fs. In legacy the fs was the strongest dragon in the game and when u had 2 good fs players, u were able to kill 10ss.
Now u can get down to bite fight with the ir - if u can play it - to bite one of the fs to get him bleed or put IR in the air to flame the fs bc they can take fire dmg and ir cant take that. But then the IR would be too op. So the ss can go in and shoot at them. But they cant full charge the whole time and also need to wait for their bile. More then fs, ir or asd. When u play in groups u need a really good teamwork with nearly every species. Mostly we dont use the Ir, but sometimes we do. Bio can also be useful in bigger fights uk?

It is a skill based game. Also like the isle. If ur a good raptor, u can be scary. But if ur bad, u want more benefits or in this case less dmg of other dinos. Use the dragons with a different tactic. I like that more ppl try to get into the pvp. Its awesome! But when u dont play it that long, please try to learn it at least and then say something. I know that Ganorax was really active in ratz on US2. But for the new ppl, learn it. Start on the solo server or small clan. Step by step. Get into a clan, which can teach u, how to use each dragon. It can just help. And until u understand every dragons place in this game, u understand, why a ss needs to be able to kill an asd with one full charge but also why its risky to cloak on a pond to wait for asds.

Im out of it, bye :3

[strange nexus]

To be honest, IR should not have a continuous stream of flame. Instead, have fireballs that shoot out similar to ss shots. It would make IR a little more viable, and able to somewhat defend itself in the air to SS (as it stands now, IR cannot do anything to an ss...I was in a fight with 4 total ss attacking 6 fs with 2 Irs, and 2 ss. We almost killed the IR if they hadnt of gone into arch cave (desync made most hits not register, so it was pain trying to land hits/avoid all the flames) but they could barely touch us lol.

[sonic skiff]

I actually think thats quite a sick idea and it helps with the range issue

[ivory mulch]

@strange nexus This is a bad idea because it would allow the IR to counter every dragon to some extent. Ranged fireball is cool but giving the IR a way to take care of FS, SS, and ASD at a range is not good for the game. IR is meant to be mostly melee and it does that very well the only problem it has is SS just hit it too hard. Having a class 5 dragon get 2 shot by a class 4 is too much esp since that damage is 70% of its hp, it is just excessive atm

@runic spoke I am trying to use my pvp experience to put forth good ideas that will actually help the game as with you. Not that balance is easy or that anyone's idea will be used but we have to give it a try when we notice painfully big PVP problems, or think we do.

I also agree skill based game and IR is new so things still need figured out for sure, but with its lightning resist and plasma resist being so bad along with its 0 range IR just needs something, well see what next month brings.

[wary ether]

this was before dragonborne died because of the hot mess it became. when I was playing, it was regularly at or near 100 players. now, it barely reaches 20 (at least all of the times I’ve gone to look at it. atm of writing this, only 12 people are on it lol)

it’s definitely not as bad as it was purely because of the fact that the server is now dead, so growing inevitably won’t be as hard

before it died, every spawn was camped. every spawn had at least 3+ other hatchlings all battling for food. you weren’t growing anything other than an asd easily unless you got very lucky to not get caught drinking or eating by the people who would regularly check the spawns (or by other hatchlings that happen to be faster than you because they spawned earlier than you), or if you got lucky enough to get caught by someone merciful

probably a hot take, but I’d also honestly argue only having one dragon save on dragonborne would’ve been best for balance to prevent quick switching and revenge killing (yes people have alt accounts, but that’s a different talk) with the only exception being biolum as a second save because it’s not a combat dragon.

pvp is vastly different than pve, so having multiple dragon saves that are easily and quickly able to be switched to messes with the balancing a lot

there’s genuinely a lot of changes that could’ve been made to outdated aspects of the game. an entire three page paper or longer could probably be made on what should change for the betterment of balance lol

[feral loom]

TBH if all dragons had a big HP buff it would fix the issues, because then the fights aren't based on who saw and shot who first, but who has more skill

It sucks to lose a dragon because you were getting stam and got 60% of ur health shot away instead of getting 10% shot away and giving you a CHANCE to live at least

[sonic skiff]

I think it would depend on if with the HP buff everything else got scaled with it too

[runic spoke]

Its already like that atm. Yes an asd can get a full charge but normally ur not staying around on ur asd

With more hp the fights would even take longer and at some point the fights turn into skill based

[feral loom]

Right now a ss two shots ir and 3 shots fs with full charges, that means it only takes 2 or 3 ss that hit in succession to kill something

With upstatting being so difficult idk why they made fights so short lived

Rn it's who saw who first that wins not "I got jumped but i got a chance to fight back" like it was on legacy

[runic spoke]

when the ir is turning the whole time, the ss cant do ANYTHING
Because the hitbox is broken. And one IR can kill one fs easily

That the ir is not that good is clear for most of us. But I still think that we need to learn it first. And in legacy as a ss u had nearly no chance to fight back. The ss gut FINALLY the buff he needed. Still, one bile bite, one really good flame and he is dead.

Before the ss was one of the weakest dragons. It was really hard to play, not enough dmg on fs and also no good bile regeneration. Stam was also a thing. The ir is loosing less stam when he is getting high then the ss. If u get a shot and start to skybox, the ss will have it pretty hard to follow at some point. It cant get that high with the same stam. Its finally not like the fire dragons are all stronger and u cant set every idiot on one of them anymore like in legacy bc they need to know how to use them now instead of just flaming around them

And fights are longer then before D:

and its not like who saw who first wins. The ss in the last days saw me before. I won

but the upstatting is terrible... Just random

[rancid skiff]

its the same damage output then you had in legacy.
fullcharged ss shot got nerfed . just the single shot got an buff.
Also dont forget this hitbox is broken. the ss is not able to show his power atm.
if you are little bit smart you can easy kill 10 ss with 2fs atm and you will still be at 100% because of this broken hitbox

even elder asd with A++ in plasma could get onecharged with an ADULT ss in legacy

[feral loom]

The ss never used to be able to 3 shot a fs with full bile charges?

[runic spoke]

I can show u videos

[rancid skiff]

it was in legacy lol

[runic spoke]

When we full charged smoke & ratz breeder on US in ravine whil they were nesting

[rancid skiff]

they died in 10seconds lol

[feral loom]

Mhm hm... if you say so
a full plasma charge barely did 10% to my fs on legacy

[runic spoke]

Nooo that was way more

[rancid skiff]

full charged ss did 30-40% dmg xd

[runic spoke]

with 18A on 18A

[feral loom]

Then y'all official servers got weird rates going on, I've never taken 40% damage from a ss in my life as a fs before genesis

[runic spoke]

idk how that changed with the mutation points. If an adult full charged on an elder ofc, that was less. But adult on adult?

[feral loom]

I'm meaning adults on adult or elder on elder

[runic spoke]

yes that was a lot dmg

When the ss elder came down to my elder fs whil I tried to log, I needed to move. Bc the dmg was terrible with a full charge. But after that full charge I had some time. And the full charge was skill to hit between the trees tho

Also when an other fs was flying over u to push it away. One bad flame of the elder fs and u were dead

And 2 adult fs were able to flame 2 elder ss without problems

[ivory mulch]

1 full charge has always been 40% to FS which is/was fine, but they did buff bile regen which is why SS is stronger ATM using it. IR should tank as much as FS vs SS though because the range of their flame is so short they cant hit SS that are any good. Even if SS did 45% it would help IR playability because they have less armor than FS and take more damage from bites, the 2 shotting is just a little excessive.

[dim otter]

Yeah I love playing asd but it feels pointless when a ss can one shot me from the sky and I can't even hear them 😦
The grow time is shorter than others but it's still an hour and half of my time down the drain specially when I try to nest in pvp.

[tepid delta]

SS is just so op it ruins enjoyment of other dragons because of it.
I don't want to fly at all anymore because who knows if an ss is flying invisibly nearby and is planning to kill me in minutes?
And asd got hit hard from it, because a baby-killing ss can just sit at the pond and 1 shot you when you were drinking, with no way to fight back or even react to it because it's arrival was unseeable.

[dim otter]

The dragons need better balance and tbh I wish breeding wasn't the main focus of the game. The breeding plays a part in creating an unbalanced gameplay and favor larger groups or people who can spend hours sitting waiting for eggs or bought 10 accounts. This creates a game gate kept by groups that mixpack and grid for max stats causing many to be forced into a certain type of gameplay instead of being able to enjoy the game their own way.
Also I don't know how it's gonna play out for drakes cause at this point getting around the map is a struggle without the ability to fly like the others.
Also I like the idea of increasing the health across the board so it actually turns fights into more than unfair ambushes with no room for fighting or fleeing.

[tepid delta]

Hopefully, HOPEFULLY, the pearls add something because right now its more linear than a visual novel.

[glass ridge]

This

Inferno is made to deal great damage at the cost of being vulnerable to damage

Inferno isn't easy to play because of its vulnerability to damage, so your job, as an inferno, isn't just deal damage, but also dodge attacks for your own survival

Currently, you're immune to fire, so your only threat from the sky, is plasma

[tepid delta]

How do you dodge if you're slow and can barely takeoff? Also asd can still result in your death.

[glass ridge]

Everyone is vulnerabile to acid, please don't bring this up

Anyways, I was able to survive as an inferno on deathmatch for a while by moving in the air and trying to follow an unpredictable path, and I'm not even that good at the game

The takeoff problem is the only actual problem I see here, that is something that MUST be fixed

[tepid delta]

A big issue is the breath being useless, they should definitely make it more fs breath

[glass ridge]

It does have a long delay, I'm getting used to it tho

[sonic skiff]

some might argue otherwise because its such a chonk of a dragon with stubby lil legs but i agree with you. For something adapted and designed for flight it sure does struggle

[glass ridge]

Agreed, a dragon with such big wings can't waste 50% of its stamina and 20% health while trying to take off as an adult

Had issues even with elders

[glossy relic]

sadly making one of the most powerful flames in the game double the length isnt a good idea, inferno is anti fs and its flame is double the power, main weakness is shadowscale, its also wider so making it easier to hit close targets

[glossy relic]

asd can kill you by suprise for sure

but ground movement isnt its strongest since its lacking what fs ss and asd have, 4 legs, dodge in the air not on the ground

[ivory mulch]

@glass ridge When you dragon is the size of IR dodging is more of your opponents missing than you dodging. This game does not have tight fast maneuvers to allow actual dodging, currently the reason the IR lives any amount of time is desync. Giving it flame length is probably a bad idea but making it tank SS like the FS does is fine, it cannot hit the SS unless the fly into its mouth, once again SS skill issue not really IR playing skill. It should at least act like a class 5 dragon.

[glossy relic]

so what im hearing is

u wanna make a fs fire proof and half plasma proof

to op sadly, the difference is that the ir is the only dragon specced into 1 main thing, fire, its like an mmo game if u got all ur stuff in 1 skill tree then your gonna be bad in all other places like the inferno

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic NO!
It has no fire range, like melee range. Even with plasma resist buff it would lose to any half baked player on SS, it just wouldn't die before getting a chance to bite. There are 0 players who actually play IR that think it is well balanced.

I like the play style, I like that it does not feel like the FS, I like that in a bite fight it goes even with FS. The low Pierce armor is good, the medium/low speed is good, size is good, I even like it take off mechanic(probably the only one). It is bad gameplay to make a creature with long grow time lose HARD to a creature with lesser grow time. Especially if skill cannot make up the difference.

[glossy relic]

@ivory mulch NO!
its low range is part of the trade, its damage is double an fs but u want it longer? growth time doesnt apply since anything can fight anything doesnt matter how long you grow, the ir needs something to kill it and plasma does the job, asds do well also but a decent inferno plater will just flame up while sitting, take the damage and fly off

its still debatable with asd i agree

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Yes keep its low range, keep its low speed, those are good.

I do not want another FS

[glass ridge]

The only thing I would do, for something that struggles to hit people with ranged attacks, is give it 100% chance to set you on fire when it manages to hit you

If there's something that I fear, as a ss player, is fire effect

[ivory mulch]

Give IR enough plasma resist to take 45% hp from full charge, not 70%

[glossy relic]

and make a high damage dealer tanky?

you cant make something that drops a fs to 75 with full bile on its own and also make it stronger against plasma

[glass ridge]

((sometimes you take fire damage, but you're not set on fire))

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic It doesn't need to tank, it just needs to not be worthless in real fights. It literally only lives currently because of desync

[glossy relic]

then sadly your not using it right, its 100% resistance to fire dont give it more tank for a completely different element

[glossy relic]

oh and ps if growth time was such a problem asds would be here 0_0

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic ASD got buffed and feel great to play right now, same with SS, and FS didn't need a change so they shouldn't be here. IR was released and it not good atm, I probably have double your play time on it because i know you like to play strong dragons. To be fair I bet you did try and and might even have an adult to play around on here and there so you do have some experience with it.

[glossy relic]

its simple, you cant have something be 100% resistant to 1 thing and not get domed by another

its balance

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic It is doomed if SS hit for 45% instead of 70% it cant fight back. IR literally have to just run and ask for back up if they see SS and with slight plasma buff that wouldn't change.

[glossy relic]

so thats why you have a clan, fs guide the ss off combat mechanics W and now with many caves if your smart ss is done

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Yeah you are right, SS should just 1 tap things because being the faster, stealthiest, and longest flying, dragon without a real counter is not enough.

Before you say FS counter, they literally cannot catch them unless the SS chooses that fight, they must choose to stay and fight FS to be countered by it.

[glossy relic]

fs counter 0_0, its a sniper so getting away is simple, so in clan fights fs push them away its simple, ss only 1 taps ir cuz its weak to plasma, like pokemon dont make charzard resistance to bubble blast bro

[ivory mulch]

In a skill based game. Movement is the strongest counter in the game, that is a universal rule unless range attacks have lock on. SS has the best movement in every single category of every dragon that does damage.

But it is okay, toothless is the strongest in berk why not be the strongest in DOD.

[glossy relic]

its also a sniper that gets 2 tapped on the ground

[ivory mulch]

IF YOU ARE COUGHT ON THE GROUND THAT IS YOUR FAULT!

at 10% stamina you can just fly away

[glossy relic]

so do we give ss more health to bite fight fs?

see what i mean you dont balance things just cause there bad for the player, you balance them on what there ment to do

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic SS can bite they are just bad at it yes so they don't because they have the advantage in the air. IR like to bite but cant because SS kill them too fast and they cannot stop it by any means, they need FS to be viable which is not productive to playing them.

IR v FS is good game play
IR in a 1v1 bite fight with FS is a 50/50 fight because FS has a lot of pierce armor and IR does not.
IR is close range with its flame so it cannot fight SS and its ability to flame FS is limited due to speed/turning, it requires skill and is good for the game

FS v SS is good game play
FS can fight SS if they can catch it which requires SS turning within FS damage area but because FS can tank shots and have fair flame range possible to win a fight

ASD v all is good game play
If the ASD gets the jump on FS or SS and you are not near water it has the advantage and can play around your slow hp/stamina decay
ASD can fight IR even with them having flame cloak because IR is so short range that they are not a threat unless you choose to enter their range.

IR v SS is bad game play
If the IR lands on the SS because they are AFK they can win as with FS/ASD
If they fight and are both aware of each other the
IR does not have the speed to catch the SS
IR does not have the range to hurt them in an air turn battle like the FS
IR does not have the stamina to stay in the air with them during the battle
IR does not have the sky box to stay with them during the battle
and to top it off SS does more damage than IR in their 1v1

the above listed items are in equal skill situation
Yes some of this is determined by players skill, a bad SS player will fly into an IRs mouth and get hurt usually not die due to fly speed and desync but take some damage.

In a 5v5 team fight you would want 2-3 FS and 2-3 SS with 1 ASD somewhere, the IR would not participate in a raid because it just dies to SS too fast. They are only used if it is your only dragon

[glossy relic]

ima tell you right now that u ddnt need any of that @ivory mulch, this is living proof that dod is pokemon, 1 dragon beats another and your explaining it for me right here, fs beats ss and before you say no theres only 1 dragon that heat sense is for, ss beats ir simple as that, ir beats fs easy clap in the air since ir is actually faster than fs if you didnt know and asd is the main support class atm with bile that can hurt all species in a viable manner

your trying to get charzard to easy 1v1 blastoise bro they are not the same

[ivory mulch]

Pokemon a turn based game built around counter balance system where it is a mental battle of choices with no interaction skill.

DOD skill intensive survival, pvp, rp game where interaction matters more the dragon you pick or is meant to.

These two games are completely different the fact there is a counter dragon system is not a primary factor in the game.

Example FS soft counters SS
ASD soft counters FS
IR soft counters ASD
SS extremely hard counters IR

Soft counters add good game play, extreme hard counters kill game play.

[glossy relic]

this is incorrect, the choice of the dragon matters more than the dragon you play im very sorry but asd vs ss isnt balanced if 1 can fly and wait for the others stam to die, and soft counters arnt a thing ether its just counter, fs would hard counter ss have you seen how fast they die? and + with heat vis being able to see the ss cloaked being a major advantage, asd hard counters fs since it fully wipes its armor and demolishes it health if it gets bile with no water around, ir is not the counter to asd.

• isnt it the same thing as earlyer? its invested 100% into fire, the more you invest into 1 stat or element the more 1 other element will WONK you

[red phoenix]

So you've never killed an fs with an ss? Pathetic. Plus ir aren't ment to go against ss, they are ment for fs. Same with fs ment for against ss. It's like rock, paper, scissors. But hey doesn't mean it's impossible for an ir to kill an ss if it's caught lacking, which at that point is a skill issue.

[glossy relic]

little aggressive lmao but its the gist of it

[red phoenix]

Also asd can kill ss easy. You just gotta get good at the game

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic So you are just saying choose SS or you are wrong, because SS counter ASD and IR and FS cannot kill them unless you engage on purpose into a long battle with low stamina.

[glossy relic]

you want ss to be slower now?

[ivory mulch]

Any dragon can kill any dragon under the correct circumstances I agree

[surreal shoal]

Honestly the charge against an ASD is good as it is - given how hard it is to hit them at times.

[glossy relic]

and those circumstances greatly highten with the right dragon

[glossy relic]

ye

[surreal shoal]

Against an FS it takes 3 fully charged shots, and it should take the same for IR. That's the only thing worth changing.

[ivory mulch]

@surreal shoal yes that is all i have really said

[glossy relic]

and why?

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Because it needs a chance to participate in combat as a class 5 dragon should.

As I stated multiple times, it has melee range abilitys it cannot fight SS anyways it shouldn't take 70% damage from 1 shot at full armor

[red phoenix]

To be more balanced duh

[surreal shoal]

Cause with the ability to ignite itself and better melee combat, it deserves a lil bit more survival ability

[glossy relic]

this aint balanced lmao

[glossy relic]

from long range?

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic It has no range

[mental adder]

its meant to combat fs not ss right?

[surreal shoal]

Yeah, basically this

[ivory mulch]

The IR is melee and its bile attack is almost melee

[glossy relic]

exactly

[glossy relic]

yeah a melee dragon

thats what it is lmao

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Making it live vs SS shots wouldn't improve it fighting SS it would just allow it to fight the FS

[glossy relic]

what? no

then why make it resistant to ss if you want to fight fs?

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic your critical thinking skill rolled a 1 didn't it

[silk mortar]

the IR is already good against FS/

[glossy relic]

no bro your tripping a melee dragon vs a long range dragon who u things gonna win? its just common sense

[mental adder]

just like how asd gets destroyed by fs, ir needs a downside, i feel like ir should be meant to fight fs, not ss, since if it stood a fair shot against ss it would be overpowered

[surreal shoal]

IR just needs a little bit of a fighting chance against an SS

[red phoenix]

Eh in most cases yes buuuuut doesn't mean an ir can't get the drop on an ss

[glossy relic]

no sadly since its the way the game works, ss beats ir

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic If IR takes 45% from a full charge it still losses to SS, you would still lose the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3.

[glossy relic]

yes, every dragon needs a downside, it defeats fs in bite and fire power so it needs anti ir

[ivory mulch]

Buffing IR plasma resist would not change the result of the fight because IR cant hit SS

[silk mortar]

@ivory mulch every dragon should have its pros and cons, if it was even across the board, strategy would basically be useless

[glossy relic]

it would drastically change clan fights, and if it doesnt change fights then dont change it 0_0

[ivory mulch]

@silk mortar IR has very low pierce armor in a bite fight with FS it is very close which

is good game play

[glossy relic]

flame cloak 0_0

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Yes is would change clan fights, the IR would be playble in them

Currently it is not used

[glossy relic]

they are now? i apologize for the skill issue but fs defends ir and ir focus fs its simple

[red phoenix]

But overall it's like this;
Asd = ground snipper
Fs = tank
Ir = mele expert
Ss = sneaky hit and run

[glossy relic]

EXACCCLTY

[mental adder]

thats why ir should fight fs in the air, its safe from the fs's fire

[glossy relic]

strong sniper

[ivory mulch]

SS is not sneaky hit and run, it is close to sneaky bomber because it takes out most dragons without counter play

[red phoenix]

That works to

[glossy relic]

cloak 0_0

[ivory mulch]

sorry getting off topic a little with that comment but 70 is excessive

[glossy relic]

if you spec into 100% fire you need to take 100% in somethng else

thats the trade for ir

[red phoenix]

But damn that cloak needs to get nerfed a bit. That cloak is too op as is

[glossy relic]

fr thats really it

make it the old cloak at least in the way it looks

[silk mortar]

the IR is balanced, just because the SS can 1v1 an IR doesn't mean the IR is bad, it just has a disadvantage towards a SS, the same with a SS has a disadvantage going against a FS

[red phoenix]

When fs can't even keep up with an ss and is the slowest playable dragon currently? Ya nah

[mental adder]

real

[glossy relic]

real

[glossy relic]

sadly thats the way it works, ss gets 2 tapped in a bite fight with fs and ir 1 taps it so speed is what it needs

[silk mortar]

whats the point of the heat vision then?

[glossy relic]

fs is anti ss or at least made to be

[ivory mulch]

Dinner time

[red phoenix]

Still cloak needs to take more than 10% stam. Maybe 30% and gradually drain over time

[ivory mulch]

FS can kill SS its not good at it but it can do it.

[glossy relic]

30 and not drain or 10 and drain 1 or the other

[glossy relic]

cant chase

[red phoenix]

Finding stuff on the ground not in the air because it can't keep up with any dragon except maybe asd while flying

[glossy relic]

wouldnt you think a class 5 flame would be slower than a class 4 ss

[glossy relic]

its basically MADE for ss whats what hes saying

no other reason for the heat vis other than looking at shiny red people

[mental adder]

i mean if you know how to fight as an fs, you stand a good shot to kill and ss

[red phoenix]

So your earlier comment of saying 'just heat vision' on a cloaked flying ss is invalid if the fs is the slowest and ss is second fastest. Heat vision ain't gonna be very useful if it can't keep up with its target

[glossy relic]

when singe is out then you can easy chase an ss with it but for now class 5 is slower than class 4, big dragon slower than little dragon

[red phoenix]

So yee the ss cloak kinda needs to be nerfed a bit so people can't just infinitely be invisible with almost no consequences

Losing 10% stam ain't much of a consequence

[glossy relic]

i think like lose 10 and drain like it did before

[red phoenix]

25% with slow drain

[glossy relic]

hmmmm

15% slow drain

[red phoenix]

25, that way it has more risk, make it interesting. Or take 40% with no drain

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Did you know heat vision is really really bad

Cloak having 25-30% with no drain would be very fair

think before using it but still can get in and out of situations

[glossy relic]

yeah for finding a shadowscale, but how long are you gonna look for one?

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic So FS only kind of counter SS, which is called a SOFT COUNTER

Good for game play

[glossy relic]

will you die to an ss as an fs... no or at least not if your decent, all it does is just shot and leave then fs heals thats it

soft counter means actually kill it, its a nuisence

[ivory mulch]

Yes but you can fight, which is the point. Having a chance to fight is good for game play especially when you expect people to grow for 3 hours. Lower IR to class 4 since it just gets railed by both class 4 dragons and it fits perfectly.

2 hours grow time to lose 70% to a 2 hour grow time dragon, that makes sense sure.

[glossy relic]

class doesnt = gameplay, if that was the case asd would be class 4 or 5 with how hard it rocks fs

[ivory mulch]

ASD fits class 3 perfectly

It has the lowest base damage and HP in the game

[glossy relic]

and it domms fs

with its cracked bile ability

[ivory mulch]

FS kill it if you dont just land on it without water

[glossy relic]

but if theres no water and its suprises you

[ivory mulch]

Yes its bile ability is good but its not OP, it can be washed and it needs to be stacked

[glossy relic]

your dead simple as can be

[glossy relic]

doesnt need to be stacked, usually 1 bite does the trick, 1 asd with a good suprise can kill an fs same as ir, if the ir knows its there thats why CAVES exist

[ivory mulch]

ASD dies to someone farting in its direction and as a ground based dragon it is limited in what it can do

I think you grosely miscount how good mibility is

ASD surprises you and you go to water you get away on any dragon, in almost every case. SS surprises IR, you die... you just do.

[glossy relic]

u know its base health and armor is stronger than ss?

[glossy relic]

mobility is very good i understand that but without anything else your just a fancy dancer

[glossy relic]

ss suprises ir it drops to 40 then goes into a cave boom, still gotta be smart with things, and ive been biled before and sometimes you make it to the water with 0 stam so you die anyways its not a trump card

[tepid delta]

Damn your points are weaker than my grandmas kneecaps

[teal current]

I might like to chip in here and request something that might satisfy several thoughts on beefing the IR up or at least giving it something that might assist with survivability ... Why not give it the ability to climb rock faces?? Right now it's a bit ridiculous that the one dragon that has claws on it's wings and is, essentially, built like a long necked bat with a tail... Can't even hardly hop... It's jump ratio is even less than an SS and that seems vastly under powered for it's body style. It also makes it nearly impossible to take off unless you have a ridge, ledge, or slope. This adds to the issue of not being able to fight back since once your down on the ground it has a real problem getting back up off the ground again. Maybe the 'softness' against other dragons can be countered by giving it a bit more by way of maneuverability. Give it more jump height, allow it to climb rock faces, and give it fireballs with a bit more punch instead of copying the fs flame stream. Give the IR something other than pretty flames... Give it some umph in a different direction from the other dragons. ASD has speed, SS has invis, FS is a tank, bio is a spy, give the IR a skill... Other than a sitting duck. Make it an agile climber. This way, it retains an extreme weakness (weak to plasma), but also is playable in a unique way to any other dragon. It retains the defensive ability while gaining a measure of offense and not tampering with the system itself directly. It will also be more friendly to skills issues players without taking away from the challenge that skilled players enjoy, thereby catering to both types of players needs and satisfying the demand on both ends without cutting the dev expectations for the build and game play.

[tepid delta]

Im pretty sure Blitz has rock climbing, so I dont think its a good idea. Fire balls are an awesome concept, can give some ranged attack while preferring a close range to hit easily because its a slow moving blast.
I would like it to actually have more aerial options, like maybe a claw attack to grab things without grouping.

[teal current]

The claw attack isn't a bad idea at all. If Blitz has the cliffs, then give IR the ability to climb the walls in the caves. My point is, give them a nitch. Right now they are pretty but don't have their own unique purpose to maintain the players attention and need to be balanced in their gameplay capabilities. As it stands, the gameplay for the IR is heavily skewed to the negative. Giving them a skill set that's different from the other dragons keeps their gameplay interesting and helps maintain players interest in the IR as a solidly playable dragon.

[ivory mulch]

@teal current although that would be cool it would not help them to survive, there problem is not ground based. There problem would still be losing 70% of their hp without counter play. As a class 3-4 you counter play with dodging due to size+mobility as class 5 it is meant to take the hit with its large size. IR can't take a hit so it's size is just a giant target, putting that target on a wall wouldn't change it, it would still die to 1-2 SS shots depending on prio damage. 70% is just to high for a slow dragon that cannot defend itself.

[stuck dune]

Fix

[teal current]

@ivory mulch I see where your coming from, so, why can't they beef up the flames as a shield?? It shields against the ASD venom shots, why can't it shield against some of the damage from plasma? And your right, if the dragon is slow and unable to defend itself as well as a class 4 should, perhaps they can add the ability to pick up/throw burning rocks when lit up?? I'm kinda sitting in the dark with ideas here, my original thought was to give them speed and agility boosters when on the rocks if climbing which would make them a MUCH harder target for SS and ASD alike...

[ivory mulch]

@teal current Burning off acid makes sense realistically which is partly why JAO did it. Plasma is more force damage, fire would not really have an effect on it. It would make more sense if they lost plasma resist while on fire and had more while they were not on fire, because turning on first would be opening gaps in their scales to release the flames.

Also adding whole new mechanics to any dragon right now is a no go, it would take to much Dev time. The changes that can be made should be already in the game somehow so it is just a slight numbers tweak, that way we can get slight buffs/nerfs as needed and not wait 2 years for the change.

[teal current]

@ivory mulch that's fair on the new mechanics thing. My thought was that if the IR had the ability to jump and climb with speed boosters, it would make it a much more difficult target, use existing mechanics, and allow players to have a chance at countering the SS damage by being a way more unpredictable target. The only thing the devs would be modding would be the allowances for jump height, especially if the climbing mechanic is already useable with the Blitz. They gave the Bio the ASD'S speed boost ability while on the ground so I don't see why the IR having the same climbing ability as the Blitz would be an issue, especially if it's used in a whole different way. They would be recycling the same code with minor tweaks in the in game play. I see what you mean on the realism issue with the flames being a shield... Perhaps a tweak on the percentage of damage the SS does to the IR can be countered by giving the IR a stam boost?? That may also help with in flight maneuverability as well... I'm not adverse to the ideas presented, just trying to come at it from a different angle and think outside the box.

[ivory mulch]

@teal current All we can do is give good ideas. In legacy the FS had sky box advantage so which was help make up for not having speed, because if SS wanted to chase they could but they couldn't hold position above them the whole fight. currently FS/IR sky box is really bad vs the SS because it just has better flight across the board, not sure what the fix should be but if they don't add armor IR will just end up not being played. Most people try it out and after getting removed from 2-3 fights go back to ASD/SS/FS so they can at least participate.

[glossy relic]

excuse me i was gone, if complaining about ss speed is the only thing then make it slower, and if that doesnt work you dont need to do anything, give the ir more health against ss and its op so you gotta figure out something else

[ivory mulch]

More plasma resist for IR would be a better balance, If SS lost speed it would be bad. I do not want SS to be trash, I just want IR to be usable in fights.

SS/FS/ASD are in a good spot, change cloak, and heat vision a little but outside of that they are what they should be.

I do think that FS/IR should lose less and SS should lose more stamina at higher altitude but than it would be hard to fly in the clouds so that is a problem for the future. Does not have as much effect on current combat most people don't skybox because it just doesn't work as well anymore.

[glossy relic]

so im ASKING again 100%, u want a fire proof fs...

[tepid delta]

Its already fire proof, he means plasma

[glossy relic]

nope thats what i mean, he is asking to make an inferno go to 70 hp instead of 45 hp with a ss supercharge, if you do that its just a fire proof fs, since they take the same plasma damage

[tepid delta]

Fs does more damage and has a direct counter to ss (even though its in dire need of a buff), also iirc fs tanks more hits than 3

[glossy relic]

fs flame damage is worse and so is bite, il agree it counters ss SINCE its fire is double the length of the inferno with also more bile so better for ss, and is iirc a misspell?

[tepid delta]

fs fire is much more reliable, and ir needs tweaking for that since its range isnt that good
iirc is an acronym for "If I Recall Correctly"

[glossy relic]

agreed with ir tweeking but no matter what its gotta be lower since its damage is actually double
fs i think tanks like 4 or 5 supers, 3 is from elders

lower range btw

[tepid delta]

I would like to have a damage dropoff mechanic to make ir hit as far as fs, but significantly weaker from that range

[glossy relic]

that would be legit, theoretically if the fire does more damage it means more hot so the farther you are the less hot it is, YOU SMART COOKIE

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Toothless you have missread what I wrote, I don't know why but you have.

I would like IR to take 45% damage from a full charge from SS instead of 70% because the IR is countered by SS in speed and range. Currently the IR cannot fight in any fights that an SS is in, because it losses too much health to one shot and there is no real way to stop it from happening, if two SS are in any given fight the IR will die before it can fight which is bad for gameplay.

If IR has plasma resist like FS it would still lose very hard to SS because its range is so short it cannot flame them, buffing IR range would make them too strong against FS because flame stacking would be easy, currently it is in a good spot because you have to be very close to do it and that is skill based.

[surreal shoal]

To be honest IR is a bit underpowered compared to the amount of food and time it requires to grow. Giving it a bit more resistance to ss bolts would give it a bit more fighting chance. And right now there is a load of SSes on pvp servers because they grow quicker and hide from adults easier

So imma just leave my vote and some of yall to live in denial, just like I do regarding the blitz update 👌

[glossy relic]

its also skill based to hit ss, idk if its just you but i have killed them since inferno is also FASTER than fs in the air, the ir is perfectly balanced atm its possible your just not using them right

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic I know you main SS.

IR is not balanced at the moment as a class 5 dragon, I can see your argument if it was a class 4 dragon but it is not. I know you think classes don't matter and the number is just made up for no reason. Unfortunately it does matter and dragon class is meant to represent something within the DOD world/lore. currently the IR is to weak to be a class 5 dragon, it is essentially a slow class 4 dragon with its power put in bite.

[glossy relic]

... i dont. main ss. ir is actually faster than fs so its not slow, but ive said this again and again goober, its 100% fire proof you have to have it 100% not proof to something and plasma was the choice, the thing that deals the most damage per second gets beaten by the thing that shoots from yards away, thats how games work, class doesnt matter if you have skill, if we want it realistic enough and think that class means like size which is what it is in dod then it still wouldnt work since creatures who are alot smaller can easy beat things that are bigger, its fire proof it has to be not proof to something

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Class is more than size, it also represents what things hunt other things. Class 4 dragons primary food source should not be class 5 dragons and with the damage SS do to IR it would be within the universe, because it is an extremely safe large amount of food.

Fire proof it countered by how short its range is, you can break check into bites on FS to air battle it just fine. IR have the advantage into FS but they don't just flat kill them in with two skilled players because they do equal damage in a bite fight which is good game play.

SS should and do win against IR. Currently they don't just win is the problem, as it stands SS make IR not playable in team fights. Multiple times we have had clan battles on 1.0. If we bring IR or our opponents bring IR the SS literally fly up and cloak let the FS on their team land for stamina and wait for IR to try and land (its purpose), if the IR tries it dies, even if FS cover for its landing 1 SS shot is all it takes for the IR to die before being useful.

70% HP is too much to lose, I said it would be when people told me how weak to plasma it would be before 1.0 and I gave it a chance. I like IR, I like the play style of IR it is fun and new, it is not worth 3 hours of growth unlike the FS. ASD getting 1 shot as the weakest dragon with lowest hp makes sense, I hate it for game play reasons but at least it makes sense. IR shouldn't get 1 shot by a dragon that grows faster than them.

Also IR is faster than FS but not enough for it too really change combat just enough to very slightly out stamina it in the air.

[glossy relic]

not equal damage btw, and the situation here is that complaining about skill, its natural to wait for any dragon to land and shoot at the landed target, its YOUR choice where to land, land in a cave and ss is useless literally, in the air fs covers ir, and class is literally just size lmao class 5 dont just hunt class 4, asds hunt fs and other dragons to technically so i dont see large issues

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Okay we have went in circles enough, you think IR are fine because they should fear SS and not participate in group battles. I think IR need a buff so they can still lose to SS but at least take part in team fights, until eldering/nesting is fixed not sure how much I will be playing anyways I have tried 1.0 and between no end game and not being able to play IR in fights kinda killed 70% of my interest.

[glossy relic]

i think personally that its possible your using ir wrong, its extreamly weak to ss since its extreamly strong to fire its as simple as simple can be

you use caves or cover incase you need to land

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic In caves you use ASD to bile and leave for FS to bite and it will have the same effect as IR, seen and and done it. SS do 70% IRs hp with 1 charge in a cave as well as not. If the IR in the cave is not full hp I have watch SS just merk and leave more than 1 time

[feral loom]

It isn'ty extremely weak to plasma tho, it's almost the same as FS in %

It's very weak to lightning

[glossy relic]

that is plasma lmao

[ivory mulch]

IR takes 70% from plasma, FS takes 40% it is weak to plasma

[feral loom]

Plasma is plasma, lighting is blitz

[glossy relic]

flame up for asd u can sit and flame, and fs land with it

[ivory mulch]

ASD bile from outside of flame range it does damage to HP and is safe, cant drain IR stamina though which is nice

[glossy relic]

and u fly out and leave the area

fs cover

[feral loom]

There isn't much use talking to them Gano, tbh it's just gonna keep going in circles

[feral loom]

I mean you're talking to someone who thought lightning was plasma resist

[ivory mulch]

Like i said you don't think they should be usable in combat and I do that is the big difference. If you have all 4 dragons in a 4v4 this is the outcome on equal skill teams. IRs both die to SS and than you have a 3v3

The amount of IR it takes to fend off 1 SS is extremely worrying. FS fend off SS, IR pray there is no SS, ASD hide to ambush SS 1 shots ASD, IR and just avoids FS. IR does not currently have a place and it is sad

[feral loom]

Plus tbh like i said way ealier, if all the dragons got a health buff it would fix most of it... just because fights are TOO quick these days, you don't have a chance to turn the tide like you did in legacy

[glossy relic]

u gonna insult me like you did before?

man no need in this chat

[feral loom]

I didn't, i just simply said if both sides don't budge i don't see a reason to continue with a conversation

[glossy relic]

its fun

i like having these, it opens my eyes

[ivory mulch]

If all dragons get HP buff ASD would become monsters because they care about stamina/armor drain and no other dragons do, it would also make SS feel really bad to play because they do need to hit hard. FS would because problematic because it would not die unless it got bile bitten. IR would survive longer but not sure that would help it if everything else also survived when it finaly did get in melee range

[feral loom]

In legacy it seemed pretty balanced

SS never did big damage to fs but it could take it out if it was skilled

Plus I just mean that if EVERYTHING for a health buff/damage nerf it would just simply make fights last longer

[ivory mulch]

Yes because all three dragons played there part well. ASD got buffed in 1.0 and are fun and fair to play. SS got overbuffed and are fun to play. FS were more or less left alone and are still fun and fair to play. IR is new and people are trying it but turns out it is fun to play and losses 9-10 fights.

[feral loom]

Which is preferable over it lasting 4 seconds and you having no chance to defend yourelf or fight

[stuck dune]

frfr

[wintry juniper]

I think 20 is a bit overkill, especially when you’re forced into a fight you don’t want to be in. Most often times I prefer shorter fights because being in long drawn out ones I don’t want to be in, isn’t very fun. I agree it should take more shots. Maybe 3 - 4 fully charged shots to kill an IR, but probably not more than that since fully charged shots also use an SS’s entire bile meter. ASD’s should take 2 so that if the ASD is caught off guard, it at least has the chance to flee or fight back instead of instantly dying

[tepid delta]

Make ss do 95%, so it can bite to do a finisher

[ivory mulch]

Full charge does take time and expend SS entire Bile bar so it doing 35%-49% on a class 5 makes sense that way 2 SS can kill a class 5 with little struggle. 70% is just stupid though.

[robust smelt]

Ok

I've done quite a bit of PVP and I can say for sure that SS isn't the problem, IR just needs a serious buff in health, defense, or both

SS vs FS feels really balanced still, but IR dies way too quickly

and it's definitely not SS's damage

fire is really powerful still in all honesty, it's just a matter of actually making contact
(Desync really needs to be worked on)

[robust smelt]

for context, i can down an IR (elder) as a SS (elder) in just one full bile bar (or a little extra)

It takes at least 2 and a half full bile bars (or more) for a SS(elder) to down a IR(elder), which is a lot more reasonable

[tepid delta]

I think the issue is actually how the IR **GETS **to the SS, because it doesn't really have a consistent way of doing that.

[robust smelt]

it’s actually not, honestly…a lot of IR players just kinda flap around in circles and inevitably allow the SS to get behind them (weak spot)

IR definitely needs a buff in defense

The only good firebreathers i’ve seen are the ones who know how to stop flying at top speed to whip around and spit flames behind them

[tepid delta]

I think the issue is that the mechanics such as camera, movement, and how long it takes to breath fire, as well as the limited angle of shooting, makes IR painfully difficult to do air battles with. Also I cant answer because I was inexplicably slow moded for 2 hours. Edit: Holy Guacamole they timed the threads 🤣

[robust smelt]

I agree
while fire IS extremely power (still killing SS within like 3 seconds) it definitely shouldn't take as long as it does to start shooting flames
I do think they have a bit more leniency with "range" though, as in the camera angle needed to breathe fire

[empty slate]

Lol when deino fights are literally first bite wins…

What in the slow mode… anyway, yea that is crazy that ss will 2 shot, fs fire does crazy damage too dont it? Not to fr, ik theres some immunity there. But i think balancing needs to be done in a few areas of things really

@tepid delta i was referring to deino v deino mate. Ig for water fights you can have a chance to turn it around if you dont get the first bite, but on land the first biter wins. Not one shot. FIRST bite.

[tepid delta]

That's the exception, not the rule. Deino are *intended * to jump out of the water and 1 shot things, that's their unique playstyle. What about Carno vs Cerato? Or Pachy vs Cerato? Is *that * 1 shot?

Or in dod situation, 5 shot the supposed """"tanky character"""""

@empty slate Because of the brilliant idea to make the timer 2 hours, I have to make massive edits.

Deino vs Deino is kind of what you are supposed to do, since its diet has Deino parts. Although from my limited Deino vs Deino memory you are intended to watch out for aggressive Deino so that doesn't happen. And again, only Deino really have this.

Also I worded the first statement badly, I do mean 1st shot.

[frank finch]

#1216491835866742976 message
Please read before posting

[empty slate]

Not sure if you understood my point here. The person I originally replied to said “fights should not be I must shoot first to win, maybe take a look at the isle for a balanced system” which is why i mentioned deino vs deino in the isle as that is literally exactly a “bite first to win” fight.

[glossy relic]

alright we gotta fix the ss claok whos with me

[surreal shoal]

Its working good to me. Its the IR that needs a buff

[ivory mulch]

SS cloak works great, cheap cost, indefinite duration, very hard to see in flight, all upsides ni downsides on the world's best dragon. 👌

[deft field]

I'm personally of the opinion that ss should have its charge taken away. I think its cloak is okay and even pretty cool, but it needs various things to happen to it:
second wind nerf (second wind doesnt even work right now, i think? but ss probably has a lot or all dragons generally have the same and needs to not have that much

slow stam regen, or a delayed regen when uncloaking in an near or full exhausted state. That way, if you've tracked a ss and have an ASD running up on it, it cant take off after three ticks of sitting and just fly off again and recloak.

I think any debuff should slow flight speed. this would naturally nerf the SS, and make chases easier against fast dragons while also making proccing dragons more viable in less direct-damage ways.

i should note not all needs to happen, only that many things could happen to balance it.
in a state of the game where your hp is so extremely volatile and one-two shots are abundant despite 3 hour growth times on said dragon, it makes ambushing a meta. I've always been very against dragons doing such huge variations of damage, and the tiny hp ui makes it hard to even tell if you've taken damage.

[glossy relic]

didnt we have like 7 hours of a conversation saying ether ir needs buff or ss needs nerf?? since im sayng that with a cloak 1 ss can take down a clan and make them move, just a long long time

[minor isle]

40%?? Wow none of my shots register at all then haha

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic Yes we had a very long and productive conversation. SS cloak is the only thing that should be adjusted on the SS was almost universally approved.

Debate on if IR needing a buff was never agreed on. Most people think it dies too fast and needs plasma resist to be useful but Toothless does not agree with most IR players.

Many people are getting off topic at this point, i believe this thread needs to be remade and turned into something more condensed to be useful again.

[glossy relic]

No need to rename lmao irs called damage balance so all damage counts not just ir, and If you think a dysinc ir with even more plasma res is better go for it

[red phoenix]

I feel the ir needs a buff in its armor because well its poop. Its armor is I'd say similar to an asd armor and having a class 5 dragon basically have the same armor as a class 3 is kinda bull. An ss charge shot should do 45 or 50% rather than 70% as it would actually give it a chance to fight back but still take 5-10% more damage than the fs as it would still be weaker in armor. Not only that i dont think it makes much sense for a class 4 dragon to give one charge and 1 or 2 regular shots to kill a class 5 dragon. As for ss, I was thinking it over and 30% stamina drain for cloak would be much more reasonable.

[tepid delta]

Also also, they 100% need to fix the pvp. Its so trash its embarrassing, especially how legacy did it so much better.

It takes about three seconds to use IR breath, THREE! That's enough to do a full turn in a dogfight! You have to predict the future to hit it!

And the flight camera is so bad, sniping as an airborne SS is simply painful, you cant even see the ground because the aiming camera doesn't do anything to stop the dragon covering your view.

And of course, the desync and hitboxes, honestly the most broken and required things to fix to make pvp bearable.

[ivory mulch]

@tepid delta Turn your (In flight low target behavior) to hide self, that will allow you to see below your dragon while flying, hard to get used to but it helps.

@red phoenix I agree with what you posted about IR as I have previously explained, but might want to have SS cloak start at 20% cost not 30% and see if that is weak or strong.
But IR doesn't need more armor just up its plasma resist, this way when it losses its lower armor it takes more damage since FS is meant to have more armor to be a tank this is a huge way to separate them along with flame range(which sucks but is fair).

[deft field]

when IR uses its bite theres a whole second delay before the damage bite actually shows, so you have to press bite long before something comes in front of you
you have to press bite as youre walking up to a bug in order to kill it without stopping

[robust smelt]

kinda wild how broken things are

[glossy relic]

personally i still believe ss needs a nerf to its cloak XD 1 ss can kill a clan just by doing drive bies

[ivory mulch]

@glossy relic But heatvision counters SS

[strange cedar]

Heat vision is exceedingly short range and costs a chunk of stamina to use. Given that SS can fly out of the range of a flame stalker relatively easily, it makes its usage effectively pointless in flight.

[deft field]

it also completely nukes your long range vision, and lasts for only a couple seconds
fs needs a buff if ss has such a buff so fs can counter ss
orrr nerf SS to avoid power creep of both species

[feral loom]

Bio also counters SS

[glossy relic]

No it doesn't, cloaking gets rid of spray and tree flying makes it impossible to follow

[deft field]

bio does not counter ss, and if anything ss is the least countered by bio. youd think bio spray would force the ss out of cloak but it doesnt

[glass ridge]

it will in the future, uncloaking a ss makes it so they need to use more stamina to cloak again, in this way a ss would need some skills to actually escape, right now it's just fly straight and phase through the broken trees at br so your opponent can't track you anymore

[deft field]

where was this said? im curious

[glass ridge]

@glossy relic Is the one who told me about it, tooth, go and explain yourself 😂 💜

[glossy relic]

its said nowhere @glass ridge ur trippin

[glass ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-gif-21852548

[deft field]

and this is why you ask for source for information unless its from patreon chat and yall just leaking