Bioluminescence Defense

[idle ether]

God no

[wise trench]

put it back in timeout!

[hard jolt]

aceofchains has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[dark spindle]

like, oh gosh. its in my nightmares. in the worst way

[lilac drift]

oop what did I say I don't even know

[bright bay]

Also side note the bio is poisonous to other dragons, the only thing i agree on is that they could increase it to be almost lethal, people will still kill you if they really want but at least they won't gain anything from it

[idle ether]

Maybe like it would also build up as they bite you

[stone jewel]

The issue isn't just dying. That's part of the game, but I should at least have a chance to survive

[modern crest]

Because animals are smart enough to avoid toxic ones. PvPers..... shrug
But we've established this.
Now if the AI critters knew to avoid bios due to them being toxic to eat unless said critter was very hungry......

[lilac drift]

Having sickness build up over bites wouldn't stop them from just flaming you to death

[bright bay]

That's something i agree on and it has SO MANY TEETH

[dark spindle]

its dead body is supposed to be poisonous, but with how little they give and how simply designed sickness is, it does literally nothing to a dragon except maybe a little fuzzy screen

[wise trench]

the metri in path of titans has a defense skin where if you attack them you get posioned which takes away your stam

[dark spindle]

i had a suggestion somewhere i think lost to the aether to redesign sickness to give you gradually worsening debuffs instead of just "oops, blurry screen at 50%"

[stone jewel]

The bio is free meals for everyone. That's not what I paid to be

[idle ether]

It would still help against dragons your size

[modern crest]

The bio has teeth?

[wise trench]

i paid to be a glowing zooming annoyance

[stone jewel]

It's hard to be annoying if you can't even nom the toes!

[dark spindle]

like making the bios body poisonous is a TERIFFIC idea. But with the current sickness mechanic it does nuffin

[bright bay]

I paid to be basically a lamp for the night and annoy bigger dragons

[dark spindle]

people are still going to hunt bios for sport but honestly as long as bio has the survivability i dont care what "defense" it gets

[bright bay]

You have a false bite xD you kinda can

[wise trench]

but no one cares if you don't lose like half a tick of health. a lot more fun when you can be annoying at only half a tick of health

[bright bay]

Maybe the mechanic can still change in the future

[dark spindle]

Heres a repost of a message i sent lost in the sea of messages here, of a small list id like to see for bio.

What id like to see for bio:
-Its glow shot takes all of its bile
-the glow shot is VERY short range/has a huge falloff arc
• Maintain its nerfed stamina

• Add the "Adrenaline" Buff. Every time a bio takes damage from full health give it about five to seven seconds of unlimited stamina and status immunity/pause
• Return its (very) tiny damage for the sake of nest defense

[lilac drift]

Alright, let me put it this way. I do not care one way or the other if the bio gets a defense.

HOWEVER. Even if it doesn't get one, I will play it all day, on PVP servers, just to prove you wrong. A dragon doesn't need to be "survivable" to be playable, you just need to be more adaptable to other play styles. Stop saying my favorite dragon is unplayable and should be changes just because you don't like it. That is why I'm so heated about this. Not because I care if it can survive or not, but because you are basically insisting that it's unplayable unless it's compatible with PVP.

[idle ether]

I like that idea, atom

[modern crest]

I like Watership Down. I got a bio because I want to "Be Cunning and Full of Tricks" with the zoomy glowly beauty. But if they nerf all the tricks, what do ya do?

[dark spindle]

so if you, as a bio, survive an attack, you can go FULL SPRINT away from the problem. other people like ss can still keep up with you if you're being scouty, but theyd have to burn stam while you have a short infinite period.
for anyone looking for a quick snack, the chase isnt worthwhile

[lilac drift]

I agree that I don't like how the stam was nerfed, but I don't think giving it infinite stam, even for a short while, is the way around it. Mostly because if a bio takes any damage, it's usually dead before it can get off the ground.

[dark spindle]

i want to fly and die. but i dont want people trying to exploit the bio and subsequently getting it nerfed to hinder my baby

[dark spindle]

yeah, thats why i added the status immunity/pause there.
plus, most dragons ranged attacks cant oneshot, save for a plasmas shot. if you, a bio, get melee'd, thats kind of your own fault

[stone jewel]

I value that you like the dragon and it's fine if you like it as it is. I'm just wanting the bare minimum for the dragon to be survivable in a survival game

[dark spindle]

bio can actually survive most ranged attacks save for the ss. and thats fine by me

[bright bay]

I will now sleep stay civil to one another and remember things CAN change in the future! This games it's the most transparent on dev i know, and really hears it's fan when they have time, be patient yall

[wise trench]

all i want is to be an annoying glowing terror and perch in the trees and scream my tiny head off. That means I need to survive to adult, be able to glow cuz like im not harming anyone being a flashlight, and be able to at least maybe escape to be annoying another night

[lilac drift]

I want to scream at people and see how fast they snipe me. I don't care about how "survivable" it is. I want to be annoying and die and renest as often as I can. If you don't like that, play a different dragon. That's what the bio was designed for.

[dark spindle]

yep, like always for me. i just like to talk a lot about this game, present and future both

[dark spindle]

no, i want to die, but id like to have at least a window to get away instead of being eventually outstammed by an ss or healer, because they keep toe to toe with the bio very well

[modern crest]

I joined this chat because I like worldbuilding and critters! They were discussing ways to use the bio flower

[fossil flare]

At this point I just want better stam, in any way, shape, or form

[wise trench]

I'm more disappointed in this game currently but it doesn't mean it can't change for the better. The dev team should honestly just take into consideration what a lot of the community is asking in regards to allowing the bio to actually survive in a dang survival game

[dark spindle]

ss actually stays basically on a bios tail for over half of its stamina bar
WHY IS THE COOLDOWN 1 MINUTE @bright bay PLEAS
we really dont need this long of a cooldown 30 secs was fine

[lilac drift]

Which is why I'm saying the stam shouldn't have gotten nerfed. It was only nerfed because people were complaining about it being p2w, and now that's it's less p2w, y'all are complaining that it's not going to be fun or fair anymore.

[fossil flare]

But it means they do indeed read these threads, at least theres that
Just give the stam back and I will be happy

[dark spindle]

im talking about the fact that bio simply havign the stamina bar it did was NOT p2w, and is a double standard. if the bio having some extra stam is p2w, why is the mimikors ability to dig up food not also p2w, as an example

[stone jewel]

We never wanted it to be nerfed to begin with. The people who thought bio was p2w is intimidated by a tiny fae dragon that can die in one shot.

[lilac drift]

Which I agree with. The bio stam should not have gotten nerfed.

[bright bay]

Fixed, now shleep time its 4 am-

[stone jewel]

Goodnight cynto

[wise trench]

thanks cynro

[dark spindle]

ty cynro

people scream the bios features are p2w but the fire drake literally exists. 1/100 opposite sex chance with one egg per day, thats not really a viable "you can just be nested" point for anti p2w that the asd went through initially.
im not upset about the bios change, I'm upset that p2w is so agressive on the bio but completely ignored with the mimikor and fire drake.
i DONT want the mimikor/fire drake to have changes. I just want the bio to not be skinned alive just because its existance is considered p2w

[idle ether]

Ngl it would be cool if bio fed off a special type of insect to give it it's toxins (or possibly the flowers nectar), kinda like a poison dart frog

[dark spindle]

you know it almost lost its ability to make people glow outside of group because of the same p2w reason?

[stone jewel]

I think Atomix nailed it. I'm just beating dead horses at this point

[dark spindle]

it does! the bios diet is what makes it poisonous and also gives it its glow 😄

[idle ether]

:0 Sorry I haven't really looked into development 😭

[wise trench]

yet i can't have my toe beans glowing none stop for some unholy reason anymore

[lilac drift]

People are just whiny because the bio can't be bought anymore but the mimikor and fire drake can. I 100% agree, the bio getting nerfed was just unfair and the devs were trying too hard to please people that can't be pleased.

[modern crest]

Wait what?!

[dark spindle]

dont apologize, its cool little details like that that you discover that you can now go flex on other people

[stone jewel]

I believe it was confirmed yoi can't glow dragons outside of group already

[idle ether]

That sucks

[wise trench]

yeah the whole kit for the bio is just literally gone and pointless which sucks

[dark spindle]

i remember jao talking about making it be the case in a discord stream, but i believe that got backpedaled
but yes, it was

[lilac drift]

Yeah, which is I think the most annoying change they made. Like how can I be a menace if I can't make random people glow in the middle of the night when they're trying to be sneaky 😭

[modern crest]

But making dragons glow is part of the fun!

[dark spindle]

you just make the bios range so short that if it tries to make people glow it can get meleed instantly. literal in-your-face range

[stone jewel]

This. Instead of nerfing bio into the ground, just don't listen to those who are going to whine about p2w regardless of what you do

[idle ether]

Honestly, bio isn't really a dragon I'm interested in playing but I don't like how it's been nerfed in these sort of ways

[wise trench]

but why did they make my bio glow based on stam!? just wanna glow

[idle ether]

Why not make the glow based on bile.. 😭

[modern crest]

They did that too? 😦

[dark spindle]

it was just theorized for balance, but the fact it was even considered for p2w reasons because it could make the bio "too useful" by basically killing half of its kit was part of why im very adamant on this point

[lilac drift]

Wait the glow is based on stam? Why?!

[stone jewel]

It's glow puts it at a disadvantage. It shouldn't also take it's stam and prevent it from recovering stam. I played on the test when they implemented that. You can't recover stam while you glow for whatever reason other than just because?

[dark spindle]

if memory serves - no idea.

[idle ether]

That's just.. weird...

[dark spindle]

i can only speculate the point was that the bio could just stand near someone hiding but like. if someones trying to hide theyll just kill you and move on

[wise trench]

yeah last time i heard the stam drained while you yourself were just a glowing bug...like why am i being punished more, for being obvious

[stone jewel]

This is true. This was implemented on the test server

[lilac drift]

Oh right I remember. I understand the disadvantage thing, but isn't being a giant beacon of light enough?? Why make it impossible to escape too? If you turn off your glow to run you're just gonna die anyway.

[dark spindle]

glow used to be an active stam drain but it got so much backlash that it got changed to "no longer regenerating stamina"

[lilac drift]

I remember. I was one of the ones backlashing it

[wise trench]

still bs, let me be a walking dumb dumb if i want

[dark spindle]

because p2w aggression against the bio - my entire point of existence of being in this forum

"bio defense" ideas are talked about over and over and over but the core issue is the constant p2w aggression. bio doesnt need more, it needs it back

[idle ether]

Kinda sad 😭
I hope they revert it during testing

[wise trench]

bio needs to be loved again

[lilac drift]

the p2w whiners are just people salty that they can't buy it for themselves. I think what bugs me is why the devs listened to them for the bio, but not any of the other things they constantly complain about.

Yeah no now that I understand what you guys are upset about I 100% agree, I just wasn't fully informed on the argument, I apologize.

[stone jewel]

This

It's not even an issue about it being exclusive. You can nest like rabbits

[dark spindle]

i have a mild, unconfirmed, purely speculative fear that patreon is being overfavored. Patreon is giving them money, yes, thats fine they should listen to patreon and favor them, but the voices are so many that i feel its also adding unintentional bias against KS.
Ive also had a lot of harassment from patreon due to me being a ks that its just not fun to even talk in anywhere but nesting, kickstarter chat and here

[wise trench]

if you can survive that is

[stone jewel]

Assuming your flowers you have to sit on aren't camped by an ASD

[dark spindle]

i do feel that kickstarters should simply be acknowledged and maintian what we have. we need nothing more. pay attention to patreon because they are the current income source. but i dont see any talk about the hybrids stats or the bio being p2w anywhere in this discord, but suddenly theres complaints and thus nerfs

[lilac drift]

I'm sorry if I ever made you feel that way. I think there is a little bit of jealousy aimed at kickstarters because you have access to things that the rest of us don't, and nesting can't get rid of the desire to want to spawn as a glowing butterfly dragon. I don't think you deserve it at all

[stone jewel]

Don't get me started on Hybrid 😅

[dark spindle]

i know theres that jealousy, sometimes i feel it towards bob backers, but some people let it get the better of them and it gets depressing

[modern crest]

This.
I just want my glowly dragon-rabbit to survive long enough to PLAY as a dragon-rabbit!

[stone jewel]

At this rate, the bio will be exclusive because they won't live long enough to nest anyone

[dark spindle]

ive had many people, patreon and non patreon, basically repeatedly DMing me to buy my account because i do own everything from KS on it. i tell them no but they keep "Reminding" till i block and purge from my dms

[stone jewel]

You can't bring bugs back to feed your mate either

[lilac drift]

That's so rude.

[dark spindle]

ive had a patreon tell me in game that kickstarters are "worthless now and their shimmer should be open for everyone now" before LT200s shimmer

[lilac drift]

I have to be honest and admit I'd buy a KS account if one was offered to me, but going out and repeatedly asking someone to just sell their account that they actively use? That's straight harrassment

[stone jewel]

Shimmer is open for everyone now btw

[lilac drift]

I'm so sorry I didn't realize what you guys have to deal with

[dark spindle]

i literally have to specifically say in my nesting advertisement that i am NOT selling my acocunts because i get asked so much

i think i have the ss somewhere but its in a uh. long long dm with my bf

[stone jewel]

Patreon can shimmer KS stuff and vise versa. Even the skins aren't exclusive anymore.

[lilac drift]

I can see how that would be upsetting I'm so sorry

[stone jewel]

Oh but the Patreon gold skin now is just an overlay. So the Patreon is exclusive

[dark spindle]

its a problem i handle, and i even find some contentment out of chewing them out when they pester. but man, the elitism sucks. Its not the devs fault, it just amplifies how i feel about this whole thing with the bio and hybrid

[stone jewel]

I own the gold skin and personally would rather have the ability to mix it with the other skins for those gorgeous obsidian golds, but you won't be able to do that in 1.0

[dark spindle]

i know not all patreon are like that and some are really kind. i do my best to nest in any server asked, but its the few rotten apples. and i dont have access to patreon chat, which i imagine most patreons talk there instead of gen chat kind of like us ksers

[modern crest]

I was afraid to even join the discord for YEARS (I joined a few days ago) due to a youtuber I follow who talked about the game getting death threats. Him and his DOG, during the big contriversy. Who DOES that? 😦 And I was a kickstarter backer so I didn't know what to think.

[lilac drift]

To be perfectly honest, and to just have a Patreon's opinion out there, I have been rather jealous of you guys. The keys that no one can buy anymore and other exclusive stuff always seemed way more covetable to me than the patreon stuff, but now I see how you guys feel slighted. I feel like a bad person now

Also yes a lot of patreons prefer talking in the exclusive chat over general chat. That seems common lol

[dark spindle]

i swore to myself that id always nest where asked. i have a whole alt setup specifically for it. as long as im around, ill be always nesting something. leuc, grey, bio, etc. i do it with leuc and leum right now and im even trying to make a server so patreon can get more stuff out there. im glad its ours, but just because its ours doesnt mean i cant enjoy letting everyone else have some of it too

[stone jewel]

I can understand that too Ace. I didn't get the white skin and it's treated like some elitist skin that if yoi have it, you're suddenly better than everyone. I personally love having the ability to pass my stuff down to friends and the communtiy because that's what it means to be social in this game and make friends. KS and a lot of other people are getting annoyed at this game for the devs listening and taking advice from the wrong people

[dark spindle]

i got an account with everything on it out of chance - i bought everything nestable because i knew people would want to be nested, and i didnt want to leave them vying

on days where i take it easy, i plan to nest bio with leum/leuc.
and i also plan to get nest_ed_ as the mimikor, and spread that too. i cant pay the 300$ it takes to get the mimikor, so thats something ill be relying on you pt guys for. ^^

[stone jewel]

It's unfair for the devs to nerf KS stuff into the ground just because people are envious. Don't be envious. Just ask me and I'll nest you

[lilac drift]

That's very noble of you guys, still nesting and offering what you have freely even though people are so mean about it. if it was me, I'd be spiteful and refuse to nest someone if they were rude about it

[dark spindle]

i dont think its noble, its just common sense. im not going to withold something because "my precious" rules

[stone jewel]

I like feeling needed. But just like it is in current DoD, it's useless to be able to spawn with these things when others already have the max stats and don't gaf about your spawn stats

[dark spindle]

especially when its at no cost to me but time.
thats also why I'm building my server too, but im still not sure how I wanna run it I know what its FOR (PT/KS nesting stuff) but i want to keep it to strictly that

[lilac drift]

I agree. Honestly there's part of me hoping they would have changed the way stats and upstatting is done, just because I don't like how people only nest for stats, everything else be forgotten, but that's just me being non competitive lol

[stone jewel]

I feel rewards for KS and Patreon should both be respected. There is clear favoritism and it stinks that the backers are getting the butt end of it. Patreons should keep their patreon stuff and Ks should keep ks. Why nerf ks just because some didn't get it?

[dark spindle]

i personally hope they change it up so that you cant get all As, so once you get to 6A it becomes really difficult to get over that.
which would diversify breeding trees instead of being the jack of all stats "best" dragon

[stone jewel]

I agree with you there too Ace. It annoys me how much of this game is dependent on nesting and stats and nesting is the only way to get the stats. Not everyone wants to sit on a nest for hours. It stinks that pvp can't even be skill based. It's a game of who has 50 alts to nest and hoard all the stats

[dark spindle]

we're sidestepping the discussion topic, but id happily take this to gen chat

[stone jewel]

We already got booted from gen

[lilac drift]

I agree, it's unfair. Especially with so many kickstarters offering to nest, no questions. You guys were there first, and honestly y'all should get the sweeter side of the deal, not patreons. We can get better stuff later as the game progresses, but right now when KS exclusive stuff is still such a major part of the game, its unfair that you guys are already getting pushed to the sidelines of development.

I would understand a nerf to the bio in like 10 years when there's new dragons, but now? Before it's been even played in it's full glory for the first time? Kind of sad.

[stone jewel]

KS rewards was the whole reason Patreon was made. It gave players who arrived later the same chance to get 2 very very nice skin and their own dragon just like kickstarters

[lilac drift]

Yeah. Which is fair. But now with the whole shimmer thing plus dev updates which I don't think KS get the same amount Patreons do, it just seems unfair to me.

[dark spindle]

well thats bc that talk was for this thread i meant like if we talked about stat breeding instead of the bio

[stone jewel]

We'll probably tall about the bio again don't worry

[lilac drift]

I love how I came here to be mad at you guys and now I'm getting mad on your behalf love mood swings they're so fun ;n;

[dark spindle]

im okay with patreon getting more, since milestone rewards are stopping at 300$ (mostly worried for wallets on that front..) i just want some fairness on nerfs
the p2w aggressions and such

[lilac drift]

I'm sure the mimikor will get plenty of nerfs once it starts getting developed for real and people start whining about how $300 is too much for some people and it's p2w

[stone jewel]

I hope parrot took our words into consideration at least. I know how evil mood swings can be. I didn't take anything personal so it's fine to have differing opinions

[lilac drift]

I think the bio gets the worst of it rn because it's the only "p2w dragon" on display so far. People will likely start getting jealous of the others once they're open for testing and are getting shown in yt videos.

[modern crest]

Yes. This was the whole fuss. I'm sorry, but I'm a little clueless. What did you think we were fussing about???

[stone jewel]

The behemoth is the very definition of p2w. If that was their concern, then they wouldn't make it near impossible to get a fire behemoth without buying it

[lilac drift]

I don't remember tbh. I think I was just angry for the sake of being angry because people weren't listening to me and were talking about my favorite dragon in a bad way.

[stone jewel]

I absolutely love the bio's design. I don't need it to be super strong or kill dragons. But a dragon that can't even attack doesn't need to be nerfed

[dark spindle]

ace initially had the impression that we wanted the bio to live more than 30 seconds after adulthood (they presumed we wanted it to pvp/do more than die, when the concern was about fundemental p2w treatment)
not in this house!

[modern crest]

Oh. Thank you

[lilac drift]

Yeah I think that was it, sorry! I was just being irrationally angry and not listening to what the real problem was. I apologize!

[dark spindle]

you're fine, i assumed you were bursting out but after understanding your situation its all good

[modern crest]

It happens. Point is you're listening now.

And glad you seem to be feeling better

[stone jewel]

Yeah but this is why the topic needed to be brought up in public. I doubt it was even in their eyes how big of an issue it was if I'd never left this thread

[modern crest]

So I did a good by opening the can of worms?

[dark spindle]

im sure they at least skim it, what with this being a forum post with the most amount of messages the server has seen so far

[lilac drift]

Well you go at least one more ally

[stone jewel]

You definitely did. I've made peace that if I get banned on this server for voicing my concerns, then I'll die a legend

[lilac drift]

lmao

[stone jewel]

Ohhh I think white dragon was trying to get this thread to 2k comments. We're over halfway

[modern crest]

👀

[lilac drift]

We can also bring it up again when testing opens back up because I think they check those threads a lot more.

[stone jewel]

Lol there's another suggestion thread for bio at the top in the testing server

Right underneath the white skins

[dark spindle]

ill probably only bring it up once bio goes live AND jaos had enough time to be able to revisit the bio.
till then, as long as some nerfs are rolled back (reversed stat changes or buffed stats).
because 1.0 is a lot to tackle, especially with how much they added to the scope

[lilac drift]

I don't check threads often either 😅

[modern crest]

Bad Parrot did mention bios haven't been tested for survival yet. So still hope! Also, yay for flying bio hatchlings confirmed!

[dark spindle]

i remember when bio was initially in the testing server and someone went around as a plasma just mass killing all the bios. and the only way you didnt die was to switch off bio.
in totally unrelated news, i hate the desert map

[stone jewel]

Desert map is a free asset so no surprise. You'd think after the bios getting mass murdered, you'd give it more survivability. Not less

[lilac drift]

Yeah I think the stam nerf will definitely come up again in survival testing simply because it's so hard to survive if your only skill is equal to a predator

Also I remember that SS. That was what got nametags turned on in the test server so we could report and ban them

[modern crest]

Speaking of survival if bio hunger got spiked so high, how do nesting mothers not starve?

[stone jewel]

They probably joined to prove a point of what's going to happen at release

[lilac drift]

Maybe

[modern crest]

Can the father dragon sit on the nest?

[lilac drift]

Also yeah the hunger spike bugs me so much. Especially without the cooldown to stop you gaining hunger immediately after eating.

[dark spindle]

to be fair the bios had nowhere to run, since they needed water constantly

[stone jewel]

Tbh, I'm not sure much was taken into consideration when designing the bio's gameplay

[modern crest]

There's a cooldown?

[lilac drift]

No but it's been suggested

[dark spindle]

the map was the primary issue there. i just found it

[lilac drift]

Honestly the desert map just isn't made for survival or pvp. Too easy to find people

[dark spindle]

this is still being thought about i think. i think the idea was that bios could grab flowers to carry to the nesting mothers or being able to actually hold nectar but we're not sure. undecided

[dark spindle]

the desert map isnt good for anything but a map tbh. i would much prefer the testing servers gridbox in ue4

[lilac drift]

Imagine it's like bees and you just get yourself all covered in nectar or pollen then fly back to the mom and let them lick it off you

[modern crest]

Can male dragons egg brood too? Mom and dad can switch nest duty?

[stone jewel]

That would be an adorable idea I love it

[lilac drift]

That would be cool

[dark spindle]

nope in legacy, but nesting will be breath based in 1.0, so anyone with the same element as you can incubate the eggs.

in 1.0 you will no longer be glued to your nest, you just have to maintain the eggs within

[stone jewel]

It's amusing to me to see all the measures that the devs will have to do extra work for the bio to just live instead of just putting its stats back to normal

[lilac drift]

Does that mean you can just be a bachelor helping incubate eggs

[modern crest]

Yeah, but in real life, males will sometimes brood eggs too, so was curious if that was a thing in dod.

[lilac drift]

I like being a dad and helping people nest, usually by bringing moms and babies food, but I would love it if I could take turns on the nest too

[dark spindle]

the nurse will be a nanny in this regard, since her bile is a universal bile so a nurse can both defend eggs and babies and also incubate them while parents are out getting food

[lilac drift]

omg I forgot about that I love it

[dark spindle]

im most excited for that with nurse tbh. you just go around checking up on everyones eggs and they can come back just to lay them

[lilac drift]

desire to be smol and cute is warring with paternal instincts rn

[dark spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[lilac drift]

hehehe

[dark spindle]

zygovo nanny - chasing down the other harassing zygovos

[stone jewel]

I hope you can smack low flying dragons from the sky with that massive club. Don't tempt momma hippo

[lilac drift]

I'm still like 60% sure I heard once that zygovos will give a boost to egg growth speed or something but I haven't been able to find it again so I'm not sure anymore

[modern crest]

I heard something about nanny dragon having an egg pouch in her throat? So she swollows the eggs?

[dark spindle]

yeah nurse has an egg pouch to move eggs

[modern crest]

Cool

[lilac drift]

gasp I love it

[dark spindle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1082769676607701055/1082769676859347014/NurseDragon_KS_Grey_Skin.webp?ex=6578c9d7&is=656654d7&hm=322f759c5939ecf2ddfec81de498cad2d630e84c18267424a0be07c3bc0a6a1a&=&format=webp&width=960&height=540

[modern crest]

I like her design 🙂

[dark spindle]

i remember when we all genuinely thought the nurse was going to be a cute and cuddly dragon but we got this behemoth of a TANK and like. yeah that makes sense

[modern crest]

Oooooooo spiky thagamizor!

[dark spindle]

thagomizer ye, i dont know if that would be called a thagomizer but i could see it just being classified as one

[modern crest]

Brood rhino's a spiketail! I love it! 😄

[stone jewel]

Stompy mommy will hurt you. You should be scared

[modern crest]

Yeah that's what they call stegasaur tail spikes

[lilac drift]

flee from the angry mama

[modern crest]

Question about the feathered egg-eaters

If they eat eggs, what do they feed their babies? Bring back an egg? The pic has an egg in its tail, right?

[dark spindle]

yep. best part is that name was a total joke but it got adopted because scientists realized they didnt actually have a term for that bit of the business end yet XD

[modern crest]

I know, right? XD

[dark spindle]

when the micro is added, there will be eggs that the micro can eat

[modern crest]

I'm glad Bad Parrot said they would be making sure the micro can't just feast on bio eggs 🙂

[lilac drift]

I don't think anything's been confirmed but I think either parents can regurgitate for their babies like penguins, or break the egg for them. Not sure.

[modern crest]

Would make sense. They're giving dragons that regurgitate animation for the pearls, might as well multipurpose it.

[stone jewel]

I'm glad micros won't just free raid bio eggs for free meals. The micros will be able to eat ai eggs to make up for this too

I just want the bio to be loved. It's already bullied and it's not even in the game yet

[lilac drift]

Again, I still think the best defense is just laying on the eggs so the micro can't get to them until the babies hatch and can fly away or at least are no longer useful to the zygovo but yk that's just me

[stone jewel]

Yeah but then the micro could just kill you in 1 bite then take the rggs

[lilac drift]

I do hate how bullied the bio is for just vibing and glowing. I swear the people who bully it just know they can't fight anything else

[dark spindle]

whats stopping the micro from just killing the bio then to snatch the eggs (assuming theyll be persistent because theyre removable from the nest)

[lilac drift]

More bios jumping on the nest. Like by the time you get through five bios for the eggs, will it really be worth it? idk it's just a suggestion

[modern crest]

Eh......

[dark spindle]

well by then the micro will just have killed five bios and not be able to eat em (and thats assuming the micro isnt PURELY an ovivore and cant just eat the bios anyways)

[lilac drift]

What's stopping the zygovos from just killing the bios for existing? They can find more eggs elsewhere

[stone jewel]

Could give the bio a bite so it can fight the dragon trying to steal them. This instead of coding a whole new mechanic

[dark spindle]

pvp logic, and present hunger - "the bios nest is right there, might as well try"

i did suggest to give the bio their tiny bite back as well as making the bio eggs poisonous to zygovos, so the zygovos both don't get as much food and suffer poison, so they'll be discouraged unless they're hungry enough

[stone jewel]

Even hummingbirds will bite you cmon

[modern crest]

Yup

[dark spindle]

we will have to see if the bio gets its bite back. i hope at least, that they repurpose its smack to do damage to small things like the zygovo or AI, or make it an emote

[modern crest]

Something I learned while volunteering at the zoo. If critter has a mouth, it CAN bite you.

[dark spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/snake-hit-cat-batting-fight-gif-14788852

[lilac drift]

I will agree on that, but I still think it's not going to stop the bios from getting bullied 🤷

[modern crest]

This. Swat egg stealers on the snoot!

[dark spindle]

oh theyll totally still be bullied, the goal isnt to make them immune. just make them not actual sitting ducks to zygovos

[lilac drift]

Fair

[stone jewel]

Oh def not. It'll still get bullied. But if it can have SOMETHING to deter mass bio killing then what's the harm

[dark spindle]

if bio even has a tiny bite then a lone zygovo would think twice before approaching a bio group, since there is a chance of dying, rather than a guarentee of being able to walk up on them with zero personal danger to itself

[lilac drift]

True

[dark spindle]

im not saying bio should win against a zygovo 1v1, but it SHOULD win in a 1v5+ considering how big bio groups will probabaly be

[stone jewel]

Which micro is the only other dragon that was supposed to fit in it's cave. Makes sense it shouldn't have to pack up and leave because a dragon of a lower class showed up

[lilac drift]

lol I will say I don't think the bio needs a bite atm since it won't do much against larger dragons. So rn we should focus on fixing the stam nerf and then when the zygovo is closer, we can push harder for a bite.

[stone jewel]

Well logically the micro is class 1 while bio is class 2

[dark spindle]

its not supposed to do anything against the larger dragons - thats a good thing it cant do anything against big boys
but it SHOULD be able to do something to defend its nest

bios may breed like rabbits, but even rabbits will defend their babies if the threat is enough to handle

[stone jewel]

And then, rabbits breed in the ground out of reach. They also don't share zip codes with fire breathing dragons

[lilac drift]

I understand that, I'm not saying we don't deserve both. I'm saying pick your battles. Focusing on one at a time increases our chances of getting one, then the other.

Right now, focus on how the bio cant escape SS because their stam is basically the same and get our stam back. Then, later foxus on how they can't defend themselves from Zygovos and get a bite.

[stone jewel]

Those are valid points

[dark spindle]

i have a feeling live will solve the zygovo problem itself, but i agree yeah

https://youtu.be/yjekCuv6sZU
warning for nature being nature, obviously.
rabbits wont attack a wolf or a fox, but rabbits will attack birds

[lilac drift]

One rule of nature that school never taught you: no creature is ever purely a pacifist. Anything will defend its baby if the risk vs reward is good enough.

[stone jewel]

Go momma bunny go!

[lilac drift]

Also: true herbivores don't exist. Cows will eat and suck on snakes they killed for vitamins.

[stone jewel]

That is 100% true. Horses will eat chicks off the ground alive if they have the opportunity. Deer too

[lilac drift]

Donkeys will murder coyotes and play with the bodies.

[stone jewel]

Zebras will murder you cuz it's funny

[lilac drift]

Nature is wild and the bio has a mouth. Give us a bite. Zebras will murder their own children to breed with the mother.

[stone jewel]

What was really odd to me was the fact the ASD was made the "natural" predator for the bio being immune to it's only "defense". This doesn't work like this in nature. If an animal is defenseless, that's because it evolved on an island with no predators. If ASD is meant to be it's predator, it's more like an invasive species and will annihilate the bio from existence. Not to mention if an ASD gets any acid on you, you're doomed. You'll lose what stamina you have and be a sitting duck that can't fly away from the ASD or fend for yourself

[dark spindle]

bio came from a secluded biome iirc so technically bio, like ss, are invasive

[lilac drift]

That is true. I'm not opposed to the ASD being immune to the bio's toxicity because they have their own toxin, but not as like a "natural predator" situation. Bios live in caves where ASDs can't easily reach. That is not natural predation if they live in completely different biomes.

[stone jewel]

I don't read the comics so I can't confirm with the lore, but it seems to me that bios would be native to the caves that provide their only food source. If it's common for an ASD to go in caves to bio hunt, the bios would adapt a defense mechanism against them

[lilac drift]

Exactly

I think the defense is supposed to be nesting on the walls where the ASDs can't reach, but that does nothing to stop the parents from dying and the nest getting abandoned.

[stone jewel]

Being up high won't save you from bile attacks

[lilac drift]

Exactly

[stone jewel]

Not unless there were literal crevices up high in the caves that would protect you from the bile. Still, the bio needs to be able to come down to eat and face the ASD that's camping his flowers

[lilac drift]

I think it was said that some flowers will grow on the ceiling and walls but still it wojld be too easy to snipe a feeding bio and they can only leave or just die

[stone jewel]

Leaving your nest every few minutes when an ASD or micro shows up is not effective breeding lol. How would you incubate your own nest if you're constantly having to relocate with anothe dragon shows up or just feeding on the flowers because your metabolism is through the roof

These nerfs were redonkulous. I really hope they address this with 1.0 among my other problems I have with this game. In the meantime, I'll sit back and watch the poo show

[lilac drift]

I think it was said that their hunger is so high not because their metabolism is high but because "nectar isn't highly nutritional". Like how pandas are constantly eating because bamboo offers so little nutrition that they would die otherwise. But yes the nerfs are painful

[modern crest]

Wow, this is a full turn around from you eariler tonight! 👀

[stone jewel]

Then they should at least let bio supplement with bugs

[lilac drift]

I'm sleepy, hungry and too tired to fight lol.

[stone jewel]

I think it was a misunderstanding. Ace didn't have all the context and just saw us insulting the bio. Which wasn't the case at all

I love the bio dragon. I'm just concerned about its survivability

[lilac drift]

Yeahh that too. I was juat defending my glowy baby but i didn't realize how much of a problem the nerfs would be outside of controlled testing

[modern crest]

I meant going from "bio doesn't need a bite" to "let it bite"

[lilac drift]

Oh yeah that was just me being a problem for the sake of being angry. I have no excuse.

[dark spindle]

im just concerned about the bias first. i can understand if it was a true balancing issue but bios nerfs have a lot of that "its p2w, reduce that" behind it

[stone jewel]

We can all say things we don't mean out of emotions sometimes. Doesn't always make sense

[modern crest]

Oh. Yeah I know people like that. You're fine.

[lilac drift]

Sorry for yelling at all of you so much 😔

[modern crest]

Want a hug? Apology accepted.

[lilac drift]

I'm good, I just need food lol. Thank you tho

[modern crest]

Go get food. Maybe you were just hangry?

[stone jewel]

At the end of the day, people will be people and be toxic about things they think they can't have. It's just frustrating to see the devs listen to those who didn't even buy the dragon they're complaining about and not check with KS for suggestions

[lilac drift]

Yeah I understand that. I'm just sorry i was one of those people before I realized how much you guys suffer because of it. The bio doesn't deserve to be a sitting duck just because someone's salty they can't buy it themselves.

[stone jewel]

I greatly appreciate your understanding. I think you grew from this if I'm being honest

[lilac drift]

I was actually eating when the fighting started lol. It's more tiredness and behavior issues

[lilac drift]

I think so too. I at least am going to be a lot more forward about helping the bio get better instead of just accepting whatever I'm given

[echo sable]

Holy sheet i'm sleeping for 4 hours and the thread explodes XD (yes I read back everything)

[lilac drift]

Hehe yeah I got a little spicy 😅

[stone jewel]

I used to be someone myself who would just avoid conflict at all cost. I think it's a good learning experience for everyone to learn how to communicate through conflict. I'm still learning too. If I knew where you were coming from, I may have been able to communicate better

[stone jewel]

Oh yeah you should go check general. there's more

[lilac drift]

Thank you for forgiving me at least. When I first joined testing, I was juat happy to have a small, pretty dragon and didn't realize how much had changed for the worse or affected people who actually bought it. I'll try to be better about it from now on.

[echo sable]

Oh gosh XD
And it's Okay, i'm glad things settled down, and a few (dozen) messages up you mentioned hearing rumors about the zygovo giving nesting buff, I heard them too, that was the reason why nurses don't chase them away because they benefit the nest

[lilac drift]

I'm glad someone agrees with me xD I said it once before and people basically called me an idiot until I got spicy about it

There was a lot less anger but I'm not proud of it

[stone jewel]

It kinda started when I noticed BP was in general chat so my passionate personality was like Oh perfect. Time to voice my concerns

[lilac drift]

Yeah it was just a lot of miscommunication and me not understanding what the problem was. I get it now.

[modern crest]

@lilac drift Were you able to get your own bio?

[stone jewel]

I never once thought you were an idiot. Actually I thought you were trolling. Then you mentioned a few false rumors I couldn't help but explain. It's not your fault on that part. There's a lot of miscommunication here and I don't think a lot of people realize the underlying issues this game has. They just see the result of a year's worth of pent up frustration explode and want no part of it lol

[lilac drift]

No, I've only played it in testing.

[stone jewel]

If you ever need to be nested, hmu. I got you

[lilac drift]

Very fair. I've only been here a year and haven't seen what happened in like what, four years since the kickstarter? Also, thanks lol. Same with you, if you need a mimikor nest once it comes out, I gotchu.

Honestly I'm slightly worried that once the bio comes out live it will be locked to KS only on the testing server

[stone jewel]

There will be nesting in the test server

[lilac drift]

I hope so. I know sometimes they turn nesting off to test combat but its okay. Ive been keeping an eye out for giveaways.

[modern crest]

Hypothetically speaking, if a kickstarter had an extra bio key lying around, would you want it?

[lilac drift]

I mean 👀 I wouldn't say no

[stone jewel]

Noooo oml she's gonna do it. You're so kind Ark

[modern crest]

I am very much considering it.....

[lilac drift]

You don't have to. Im happy getting nested in

[stone jewel]

I have to admit I'm also considering, but I also had other friends I was gonna gift for Christmas

Now I wish we can have another sale lol

[lilac drift]

Noo give it to your friends first. I spent several hours screaming at you I dont deserve it 😭

[stone jewel]

You had the guts to do something most people wouldn't dream of doing and that's owning up to your mistakes. That's an admirable thing you did

[modern crest]

Can non-kickstarters see the kickstarter channels?

[stone jewel]

Not without the role

[lilac drift]

When you make mistakes as often as I do, you learn pretty quick that its best to just accept it and move on. Also no I cant see kickstarter channels

[stone jewel]

We all make mistakes all the time. I just wish more people would be understanding of that in society. Lets move back to general perhaps?

[lilac drift]

Yeah that's probably a good idea

[ebon vault]

my input on this topic is that Jao has said from the start that the bio wont have any defensive capability... its something he mentioned literally every time he brought the dragon up, so this really shouldnt be a huge deal

however, with the wording of the original post here as inspiration, I think there's a good middle ground we can come to, between the bio not having any defense so its not pay to win, and the bio having defense other than speed so its more engaging to play

[echo sable]

We never said IT needs to be on par with Helga for defense, we want just that, IT to be engaging and not just a boxing Bag what can't do anything

[ebon vault]

and this is quite simple; learning

make it so when you're born, you are practically defenseless outside of your speed

but with other dragons having a mutation skill tree to improve, make the bios mutation skill tree be more impactful... to prevent this from getting out of hand, the dragon can be nerfed overall by not having a breeding tree, and have it instead replaced with a category unique to it, so it will be much harder to get higher statted bios, but the dragons existence is much more diverse and tailored towards its player...

if you want some speed? then spec into speed, if you want some combat power, then spec into combat ability instead... but you wont be able to have both...

this would be my solution to the issue, which in my opinion is the best of both sides of the whole bio argument

[echo sable]

That's a good idea and I would love it, but knowing the devs "no unnecesery work" policy, I doubt they would code a new System just for bio...just how they turned the hybrid 's unique System into another cookie cutter nestwarming experience

[ebon vault]

[stone jewel]

Nope. I'm leaving this to Hazriel lol

I lit enough fires for one day

[lilac drift]

Pfffft I had the same thought

[echo sable]

We are all dragons here, arson is ín our blood

And someone (forgot who ín this tsunami of messages, but IT doesn't matter anyway, it's not against the person) brought up that "just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don't like it either so IT shouldn't be changed" ... it's funny how the table can turn, I brought up the same reason ín defense of the CvC mode and got called ignorant for "not understanding PvP" XD

[lilac drift]

I think that was me 😓

[stone jewel]

I really wish they'd let us react GO GET FOOD YOI HEATHEN

[lilac drift]

AHHHHH

[echo sable]

It doesn't matter who IT was, it's a valid point, I just pointed out how inconsistent the community is on their opinion depending on what suits their needs, this one isn't the only Example eithe

[lilac drift]

Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with you mostly. I literally changed my own mind one my own point once I was no longer arguing for the sake of it. I still think that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean no one else will, however that has changed more in favor of the bio not getting nerfed just because people think it's p2w when it's not.

[echo sable]

Ofc that's why I said it's a valid point, just As here As In the argument against CvC

[lilac drift]

I'm honestly surprised that someone argued against CVC. Like just play a different server type?

[echo sable]

They thought CvC Will replace the current PvP and not even a mod could convince them otherwise

[lilac drift]

Breh. Just because its under a different name doesn't mean its not there the heck?

[grand pewter]

Pinning BP's clarifications here for future reference
General reminder: the bio and many other features are still under development, adjustments can and will be made as the devs see fit

[echo sable]

Great

[modern crest]

Thank you!

[grand pewter]

Also gentle reminder to stay on the thread topic and keep critique constructive.
The only version of the Bio anyone has played thus far has been in the testing server, where content is constantly undergoing development and balancing. Your concerns are understandable and have been heard, but the Bio is not out yet and no one has experienced it in a fully released setting so we don't necessarily know how everything will play out. Right now I see a lot of negativity surrounding the worst possible outcomes, and much of it speculation from the limited info available at the moment. Rest assured, if issues do arise with the bio's survivability after further testing or release, the devs will be able to address it.

[echo sable]

That's all we need, just a confurmation that we aren't talking for nothing and our concerns are heard, So thank you for it

[formal osprey]

Istg I'm reading through these messages and people are going back to arguing and calling dod a scam over a dragon that is ment to be COSMETIC, yes I 100% agree it should have a defence, maybe something that would prevent it from being one-shot or a toxin when bitten, but the fact people are going back to the state of calling dod an awful scam makes me so mad I need to stop reading these lol

[echo sable]

There were I think one person who called IT a scam here, and they weren't even a ks backer...most of us just says that the current state of the bio is not what we paid for, which is true

[formal osprey]

Yeah I may have exaggerated I was going on a rant lol mb

[echo sable]

It's Okay ^^

[modern crest]

Wait, so you could add emote reactions to messages in here this whole time? How?

[echo sable]

No, only mods can do it

[modern crest]

Oh. Darn it

But thanks

[echo sable]

I'm thinking on making a suggestion about my idea of making the bio unlockable, should I do IT or people already had enough bio talk for a while? XD

[modern crest]

But yes, just knowing that we're being heard is a big relief. 😌

[modern crest]

Oh? I didn't see that suggestion. I think I missed several posts in here.

Hey @ebon anvil Look! We were heard after all! 🙂

[echo sable]

The tldr version : everyone can nest everyone As it is right now but if you hatch and grow from a ks X ks egg you unlock the bio As a spawnable dragon

This Way ks still has some control over the bio but people can't claim it's p2w anymore because they can't Spawn As is

[stone jewel]

I like that idea Hazriel. There would probably still be some backlash with it being unlockable at all, but still leaving it in KS control is something that can be worked with

[echo sable]

Oh i'm sure they would complain that it's still "dependant on ks" but it's our dragon afterall, making the compromise to let IT be unlocked at all is more that should have been asked for

[modern crest]

I think it's a good idea.

As for making that its own suggestion though..... shrug don't know.

[stone jewel]

guys what if the bio could be your personal backpack dragon? By this I mean you could use a bio to store excess pearls and other inventory items for you to trade with players or something. It would give the bio a use at least

[modern crest]

How would that even work though?

[stone jewel]

it would just pick up the pearls and can regertitate them later when needed

[echo sable]

Now I can see a bio stuffed to a ball struggling to float like an oversized bumblebee XD

But I think you can already have multiple pears, but can equip only 2 at a Time (one stat pearl and one cosmetic)

[modern crest]

Yeah, that's what I heard

[stone jewel]

The bio will only be able to hold 2. Other dragons will be limited as well, but if they could use a bio like a personal backpack, they could give the bio it's spoils of war to trade and sort later with players if their own inventories were full. It would be risky since bio would be a walking loot bag, but it would give you a reason to bring a bio with you on a boss fight

[echo sable]

So the bio is even cheated ín this regard? What's the reason behind IT? If it's the Size I sure hope the micro and mimicor Will be restricted to 2 As well

[carmine crest]

From what I remember it has something to do with size, but I am not 100% sure knowing how my memory likes to trick me.

[echo sable]

I don't mind is As long As it's not a "bio exclusive" restriction

[carmine crest]

I mean, if it would be it'd make no sense with how much smaller Zygovo is. How could it carry any more pearls than the butterfly twice its size.

[pallid escarp]

The butterfly dragon is pretty big if you compare it to a human ngl.. Lol isnt the bio a class 2 dragon as well..?

I think the pearl is 2 pearls in the inventory not equiped.. Cosmetic pearls (ks or pt codes) do not count to the total..

[digital sun]

Do u know what they meant By replace PvP? Isn’t CvC pvp

[celest citrus]

You have anger issues yes, imagine growing the bio then dying, then yiiu respawn and do it again and again you die losing all your hard work, once zygovo enters the game, you will not only die as adult, you will die as baby and you will die again and agin and again. Agner issues means broken screen or rage quit. Have fun!

[digital sun]

Also good point lol

[digital sun]

Sounds like playing solo on pvp as any dragon, rip

[celest citrus]

true, but bio will e worse since no defense and no offense, oh and I forgot to add that if you try to nest as bio with zygovo in game, I wish you the best of luck, you're going to need it

[digital sun]

Very true, even parrot realizes that to some extent. I hope they do bio justice

[celest citrus]

probably won't, but hoping they do. I myself am not a KS but people work hard for the money they earn and to have that thrown down the drain, it's not right. Peoples hopes and dreams for this dragon came crashing to the ground because of the nerfs and changes. The devs went back on what they promised KS. It's not right and its why I'm angry about it even thoough I'm not ks

[stone jewel]

you don't have to be KS to play the dragon and want the best of it. Some feel it's only the KS upset, but that's just not the case

[echo sable]

They meant that official servers what are Now full PvP (everyone can kill everyone, you can nest to upstat ect) Will be replaced with CvC (only clans can fight each others, clanless dragons aren't attackable, and there's no upstatting (questionmark on this last one, I never heard of that)
Which is not True, CvC is just another gamemode besides the current full on PvP, but let's not talk about that here, IT has it's own thread

[celest citrus]

I know, I would like to be able to play it, the skin designs for it re incredible, but with it nerfed and changed, it's just not really playable

Plus I was looking forward to learning how to fly with the speed when it wasn't nerfed.... but it was nerfed.

[digital sun]

Yeah I see what you’re saying, I feel similar

[echo trail]

So I'll explain my reason for a Lethal Toxin Skin where biting the Bio dragon can get you killed

Let's say someone on a PvP or CvC server (CvC you can't nest eggs unless in a clan) is running around on their E Blood ASD looking for Hatchling and Juvi dragons to turn into a Squeaky Toy. Well they come upon a pond and there are 2 Hatchies and a Adult Bio just chilling. Well murder is afoot and they rush in and murder all 3 to mine those sweet sweet baby dragon tears. After all they should have a Flame Stalker Guarding them right? Or be in a Clan Nest somewhere safe?

Upon killing the Bio their HP starts falling, oh no!, sleep and try to outlast the Venom, hp goes lower and finally the E Blood dies

Now the player is screaming he died because he killed a harmless Bio Dragon and that's unfair!

PvP Community: Skill Issue! You don't bite Bios you Bile them! Why do you think they glow? Makes em an easier shot!

[modern crest]

Really wish I could 👍 that post.

[cyan burrow]

Honestly I would have paid knowing that the dragon was cosmetic only because I enjoy that play-style of being funny and whatever. You didn't just pay for the bio, you paid to help this game come to fruition and having this mentality you're talking about doesn't seem at all healthy. There's a bigger picture in what you contribute to.

I find it a bit bad that not only is it selfish to think you bought the KS stuff just for the bio but you're upset it wasn't exactly what you expected, but its shortsighted to sit there and be angry about something that still contributed to something that hopefully you will enjoy regardless of the little gift you get on the side when it comes out. Please try to just think more positively about what you did so you're not regretting making the decision you did prior.

[echo sable]

There is a difference between being pretty and being setup to be a defenseless punching Bag, I did purchase the bio to be pretty and make others pretty, but if I can't wander 10m away from my food source without Starving, I can't fly while glowing because I can't regain stamina, and I can't even bring bugs to hatchings what am I supposed to do? Sit and afk? That's not gameplay
And there is nothing wrong or selfish about feeling disappointed that something isn't how IT was promised...yes we funded the game with ks, but we funded the idea what was pitched to us, not something so dramaticaly different

[cyan burrow]

Like the entire point of the KS isn't just to give us funny little prizes for participating while it happened. It's to get the game made, funded. To pay the devs so they don't have to have a second job to survive. It's not just about getting a special dragon people didn't expect to be a cosmetic dragon.

[modern crest]

Wait what? How did that happen?! Sorry, was reading back through posts I missed.

[formal osprey]

Nvm

[dark spindle]

I should mention now that Ive gotten my point across (and the devs have seen it, which is a bonus), I wont be engaging in this thread as often, if at all, since i feel like we've gotten the point across to any willing to reread it.

Recap because this thread is insanely long:
KS want to see the most come out of the bio. It isnt selfish to ask for reasonable balancing other than "p2w" since as stated before, it is unfair that bio is getting such agressive p2w treatment but other dragons like the fire drake and mimikor are not(only looking for fairness of the bio here. mimikor and fire drake should remain unchanged). Regardless of whats been considered to be nerfed so far, a good portion of these considered nerfs have little (obvious) reasoning beyond "p2w." We paid to support the kickstarter and see the game happen, but we ALSO paid specifically for a dragon. Saying we should sit on our hands for a 30$ dragon that really needs to have its full glow, and run just doesn't make sense to me. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to see the most out of a dragon.
The fire drake is 10$. Due to how difficult it is to breed that thing (1/100 opposite sex chance, so you have to grind spawns after buying it: and also one egg per nest) Its safe to say that the "p2w" that the game classifies here, that it also changed for the acid spitter way back when, is basically impossible for you to get nested as one of these. Coupled with their sheer strength at adulthood, its apparent that their design makes them kings in combat, likely only to be countered either by overwhelming numbers or by another behemoth.
And yet the bio can't even get its bite.
The root problem here is NOT the fact the bio needs a defense; its poisonous body is more than enough(though, sickness needs a rework in order for it to be any actual risk other than a blurry screen). It needs what was taken from it, back to some degree - its survival is widely felt to be inadequate because of these nerfs that people don't understand why they happened other than it "can be abused"
This is where I bring up parrots replies in . The bio is actively worked on and will see balancing, especially as its testing is revisited, or its survival is best tested in live.
But i still feel like the p2w bias is too agressive against the bio; the root of these "bio defense" suggestions. Bio will likely be one of the most abundantly nested dragons due to its incubation buff.

[modern crest]

Is there a way to pin this post?

[lilac drift]

This is not news to me. I mentioned at least three or four times during this argument that I am aware of my temper problem and am actively going through therapy for it. If you had scrolled down a little farther you would have seen where I calmed down and changed my point of view because I was no longer arguing for the sake of being angry. I was already calming down when I sent this message. Don't judge someone when you don't know them. I am now friends with the people I was arguing with, and you look like a stuck up idiot. Have a good day.

[modern crest]

@lilac drift I have a gift for you. 🙂 But Discord won't let me send you a direct message. 😦

[lilac drift]

You should be able to. Let me send you a friend request.

[modern crest]

It worked, and gift given 🙂

[lilac drift]

[modern crest]

(Hug)

[pallid escarp]

If we are talking about p2w... Games already in the p2w pool now since more account means more advantages to end game.. Introducing stats was one of the worst things this game could have done xD

Nesting for skins and customize stuff should been the only thing..

Playing the game to get stats shoulda been the main way to get stats..

[echo sable]

That's out of the hands of the devs to solve, they can't feasibly prevent people to buy multiple accounts (they could do stuff to make IT less beneficial, but that's another topic) ín general things what the devs themselves release and can be bought with money for ingame power benefits is consideted p2w (like additional inventory space, gear with stats, buffs ect)

[digital sun]

I agree. I remember years ago when everyone literally had 3+ alts in my clan, someone even had 30+ alts. I myself was thinking about buying another account for DoD so I can keep my stats “saved” in case I die, but then I was like ehhh, if the nesting system is encouraging people to buy another account then that’s just stupid and bad game design, I’m not gonna waste my money on that lol

[stone jewel]

I believe this is a discussion for somewherr else. But I would agree you. I get annoyed at this game that nothing encourages you to actually play the game and I get so bored

[digital sun]

If it’s really out of the dev’s hands to solve, then that’s a huge indicator that they need to do some serious overhauls and changes in their nesting and stat system so that it doesn’t breed more p2w. Instead of the devs and community throwing up their hands and saying “whelp can’t be helped, it’s the players faults for reacting with my game in this way” and then just giving up on improvements and solutions

[digital sun]

I agree, I really wanna enjoy this game so badly since I love dragons and survival games but.. it’s just not fun now for a multitude of reasons that could easily be solved

[stone jewel]

This honestly my main reason of why I don't play anymore. If it was fun to play with more things to do, then a lot of it's other flaws could be overlooked. It focuses too much on the anesthetics and realism of the dragons and environment more than gameplay itself. There's a lot of games guilty of that nowadays too. That's why a lot of our childhood games could have the worst graphics on the planet, but keep you hooked for hours on end. Like Minecraft for example

[digital sun]

Lool this is so true actually. It’s crazy but lately, I haven’t been interested in any new games but somehow have been having fun playing older games from the early 2000s and 90s 😂 Graphics might be lacking but the game devs back then had a total different mindset and care for making fun & quality games. Now today it’s flopped, people think graphics are what makes a game great, but really it’s just a small part of it

So do you know if there will be any changes to how nesting stats works in the new update?

[stone jewel]

#general-chat

[digital sun]

Oh yeah oops, got it

[stone jewel]

I'll listen to you there lol

[echo sable]

Oh I absolutely agree that the stat System needs to change and they should adress the need of alts, but I wouldn't call that intentional p2w like the fire behemoth would be, it's just bad game design and the lack of understanding of how gamers (and the toxic kind of them) think and act

[digital sun]

Oh yes you’re right. It’s def not intentional p2w, sorry about that

[pallid escarp]

Made a topic for this.. So we can get back to just talking about the bio...

links here https://discord.com/channels/576933363672285186/1180209505099841636

[ebon anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/witness-rage-mad-max-gif-20022990

[stone jewel]

they should allow reacts in threads :u

[unreal robin]

The biolumen's spit should add a temporary filter to the affected dragon's sight, like a slight blurring of the screen or increased sensitivity to light causing things to look overly bright and slightly blinding for a short time. This would allow the biolumen to not only mark dragons with the glow effect, but also give the biolumen a chance to escape while the attacking dragon is disoriented

[snow plaza]

What if the Bio dragon was toxic to eat/bite? If bitten they slow and/or daze the enemy, and if they are eaten the dragon takes damage and/or looses hunger. Basically cannot do harm unless attacked or eaten. Which would make them undesirable targets. And they can outrun anyone. They should have larger stamina pools than the other dragons so that running away will work well for them.

[formal osprey]

exactly! i think if the bio had a defence that only dealt harm if harmed by other's first, that way they cant annoy others

[echo sable]

The bio is already toxic to eat, but only like a red mushroom, and unfortunately their stamina is the lowest of all dragons...
And this kind of defense worths nothing if you die by one attack, they won't even necceserily get poisoned if they used a bile shot

[snow plaza]

True. Being fast and small would hopefully make them a super difficult target if they’re moving. There should be a way to kill them still which would be just bile attacks. But if you bite or eat them it should be a dramatic effect to discourage biting. if you force pple to use bile attacks on a super fast small target it’ll make it a challenge.

[lilac drift]

Except with the hitboxes as wonky as they currently are, you don't have to be accurate to make a kill. You just have to be close enough and the game will be like "yeah sure, your fire didn't touch them, but they can die anyway"

[snow plaza]

Maybe that’s another issue to address too then XD If that’s fixed as well my idea works. Otherwise it’s only balanced if the biolumen can apply their toxic daze/slow effect from a distance like spit. Maybe it doesnt do damage but it disables the other dragon from dealing damage to u accurately and/or makes them unable to catch you. Just that this can be applied in group fights and might make it OP. So idk if it’ll be added as an attack type. Hopefully the targeting system is fine tuned then.

[echo sable]

And with the Range being so big you can snipe a fly from across the map that brightly colored easily spotted bio is dead by an ss or asd shot before it even realizes the danger

What about this: the bio spit (not the glow spit, an attack kind) aplies some sort of debuff...blurry screen, jumbled up controls, ect for a few seconds BUT if the dragon gets attacked by something they Don't get damaged from the first hit and the defuff ends prematurely, this Way IT can't be used to stall dragons ín clan battle

[snow plaza]

that could work. I just worry about it being used in group fights making the Bio into a crazy support fighter. it'll just have to be a delicate balance, if the effect is brief and is just long enough to let the bio make a run for it then i can see it working in a balanced way. it cant directly do damage to the dragon or make them overly vulnerable, just has to do enough to let the bio get away.

[echo sable]

That's why I said the spit on dragon gets a 1 Time immunity tó damage (so IT can't be ambushed while vulnerable) and the effect immediately ends if they are bein attacked

[calm tree]

Like maybe the spit is like coated and provides protection from the first attack?

And maybe the first attack removes the coating of toxin from them removing the rebuff but doesn’t cause harm to their foe

[echo sable]

Yeah something like that

[modern crest]

That sounds pretty cool

[calm tree]

I mean it sounds like a fair compromise so the biolumin isn’t completely defenseless

And maybe if it’s bitten the attacker automatically experiences the effects of poisoning? Like the blurry and weird screen stuff but it doesn’t do damage quite yet

[formal osprey]

Yeah with the bio's eating toxicity only being like a mushroom people will hunt them down regardless, I think it should be lethal if not dealt with quickly

[calm tree]

Eating them should definitely be lethal, in nature if a creature was that defenseless it would need something to discourage creatures from even touching it

[dark spindle]

Not lethal.
as ive stated many times in this thread, the bios current poison is fine. its the sickness system that needs work. sickness is nothing more than a blurry screen, and lethality at 100%

i actually like bios current defense, it doesnt need anything more, provided sickness gets the rework

[marble crater]

I actually really like the idea that attacking the bio with a bite will poison the attacker. Things in nature that are bright and seemingly defenseless, often are not. Similar to poison dart frogs

[calm tree]

Yeah the idea that the bio rn is just a free snack with roughly no backlash (as everyone eats the current mushrooms)

I feel like eating a bio should have punishments not just having to sleep for roughly 30 seconds

[lilac drift]

Yeah the fact that I've been actively encouraged to eat shrooms when I'm a hatchie really says something about how much of a non-threat they are

[calm tree]

Maybe not 100% lethal but it should mess you up until you heal it up

[calm tree]

Yeah the sickness is inconsequential at this point so saying that this will prevent bio hunting is kind of silly

Everyone will just eat bio, sleep for a bit, then do it again

[lilac drift]

Exactly. I don't mind the mushrooms being non lethal, they're small compared to giant dragons, but an entire dragon full of toxin should do some damage and weaken you significantly.

Someone actually tested and it took like 58 shrooms to kill a hatchie fs, so they don't even need to sleep it off before going after another one.

[calm tree]

Like in nature something as bright as a bio would be deadly to eat, or at least mess you up a good bit. I feel like if a hatchling eats a bio it should definitely be lethal and maybe as you grow it gets less but you definitely shouldn’t

[echo sable]

I think all It needs is to make more health dmg Than the Hunger IT gives back, so IT doesn't worth eating

[lilac drift]

Yeah. It doesn't have to be lethal, but if it did more damage than nutrition it would make a lot more sense

[calm tree]

Well with how little it would give with how small it is and how annoying it would be to have to sleep off every time if you wanted to do something like that

[lilac drift]

That's the point it's meant to be discouraging and a waste of time and energy to eat one.

Also you don't even need to sleep it off, it's just a recommendation. A single mushroom to tide you over before you get a bug will barely do any damage, whether you sleep it off or not.

[calm tree]

People would still kill it on sight but this would at least discourage doing physical damage to which gives bios time to run

[lilac drift]

Which is why I think the bio needs it's stam bar back, so it has enough stamina to get away. It's the fastest of all dragons, but it has the smallest stam pool, so no matter how quick it gets away, a predator can just catch up anyway once the stam runs out

[calm tree]

Yeah I don’t understand why it got nerfed, like it’s meant to be almost impossible to catch. I don’t think people on their ss should expect to catch it if it has a head start

[lilac drift]

It got nerfed because people were calling it p2w when it isn't. They want it to be a sitting duck so they can kill it out of jealousy without having to work for it

[calm tree]

Like if you wanna catch it you better have a really good ambush planned or you just won’t unless you’re using an almost equally fast though somewhat weak dragon

[calm tree]

It would be p2w if it was actually good in gameplay. It has no attack, no defense, and it’s ability is very dependent on the scenario. It would be p2w if it was very good at all of those things along with its speed. All it has is it’s speed and stamina so I feel like leave those stats alone

[lilac drift]

That's what I'm saying. People are just salty because you can't buy it anymore, as if there isn't an army of KS and key holders waiting and ready to nest in as many people as possible.

[calm tree]

Those things are like rabbits and can spew out 30 hatchlings in an hour lol

Doubt there’s gonna be much stopping you from getting instantly in like 5 nests

[lilac drift]

Yeah, exactly. But people overlook that for the fact that you can't buy it anymore, and cry p2w because they're jealous and salty

[calm tree]

At this point the bio is unplayable with how it’s been neglected for so long

[lilac drift]

I agree. It's really sad and I'm going to be pushing so hard for it to get stam back once testing opens

[calm tree]

I sympathize with all the kickstarter players because the dragon they’ve been waiting for for years is basically useless

I mean the speed and stamina is exciting but now with the pushback with everyone else who cries p2w they’re never gonna actually get that dragon

[lilac drift]

Yeah. I mean it was never meant to be a pvp dragon, but now it's like only feature has been taken away, so all it can do it sit there and glow, which is unfair to the KS

[calm tree]

Yeah it’s not supposed to be a great dragon for PvP but it should be a fun for your money to actually hunt it

And eating it should be a pain

[lilac drift]

I'm one of those people who's been saying like "I'm just here to live fast and die faster", but now that's not even going to be possible because I'll die before I grow up unless there are ASD-proof caves

[calm tree]

I thoroughly enjoy playing the tiny lifestyle and always look forward to zygovo because of that. I love fast growth and causing my bit of chaos before doing it again which is why I feel KS who paid for this dragon won’t be able to enjoy the one main mechanic of it

Now they’re merely sitting ducks waiting to get eaten over and over again

[lilac drift]

Yeah. I like the bio's speed, but now it's only good for short distances, which is useless

[echo sable]

To determine if The bio has enough stamina we need not only check how fast and how far IT can go, but the recovery rate As well, no matter if IT can outfly the 2nd fastest ín short distance, if by the Time IT recovers it's stamina the other dragon caught up, because your lead was so small

[calm tree]

The second fastest dragon even wouldn’t be a big threat to the bio, and even so the bio should tread cautiously around the places where it would be (this would be the ocean as the singe crest is a fishing dragon)

[echo sable]

Yeah, but SS is not much behind the singe ín speed

[calm tree]

The bio should realistically have more stamina than the ss

[echo sable]

IT should, but IT doesn't have right now, and probably won't have ever because the "pay to win" squad

[calm tree]

So unless the ss snipes the bio, realistically the bio would get away

[calm tree]

Lol even with stamina the bio is almost unplayable with how easy it is to just drop a baby asd into a bio cave and just kill any and all hatchies. It’s not even close to p2w because it’s not like it can hunt down and kill everything, something that would be p2w is the giant fire drake coming like late next year

[lilac drift]

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping we can nest a bunch of people in as the bio in pvp and then have everyone crying that they're killed before they can get away so that the devs will have a large group of people asking for better stam, not just a small one

[echo sable]

We agree on that, but IT seems we're not the ones being listened to

[calm tree]

Bio can’t do any damage intentionally so giving it more protection in defensive abilities such as high toxin and biting will hurt you if you get a bite onto a bio

If bio’s gonna be very fragile make it so it hurts whoever’s hunting them

Cause if the bio existed in nature it would go extinct almost instantly with how defenseless it is

[lilac drift]

I will say though that this thread has the most number of comments out of every feedback thread, so if the devs don't listen it's not for lack of trying

[calm tree]

If the devs don’t listen it’s definitely not our fault lol we tried our best

[echo sable]

And this is not the only bio thread either, I think bio has the most suggestions made ever XD and yet none were listened to

[modern crest]

I heard the devs at least know this is here and are waiting to properly test the Bio before editing it any further.

[formal osprey]

Yeah something like that

The bio as of now is way too safe to eat and will be hunted down

[calm tree]

Yeah in nature bio would instantly go extinct. I feel like bio should function like a poison dart frog, pretty but you definitely shouldn’t get too close

[modern crest]

Normally, I'd argue the Bio wouldn't really go extinct since they breed like rabbits--
--except that rabbits have speed (although they CAN'T outrun all predators) agility (they can turn on a dime to out-maneuver predators) and burrows (which CAN be dig out out or entered by predators but rabbits still have escape options due to the number of tunnels and exits) and claws and teeth as a last resort to defend themselves with.

If you're gonna make Bio the "rabbit" of dragonkind, don't make it "helpless". Make it a challenge to hunt, & being hunted fun! You want us to not fight? Fair enough, but we can't just be pretty glass dolls. Where's the fun in that?

I got a Bio partly for its beauty, partly for the cool glowing paint party trick, but also because it WASN'T a fighter. I actually WANT to play a dragon that needs cunning, speed and tricks to survive!

And yes, I know I keep comparing them to the rabbits of Watership Down, but I adore those books and see the Bio has a kindred spirit to Hazel and the other rabbits. That and I admire the TTRPG Bunnies & Burrows where the whole point is you play as a rabbit and need to outrun and outwit predators instead of straight up fighting them.

But B&B rabbits still have ways to defend themselves using herbalism, their environment, various dodging tactics while running, and fighting only with no other choice.

Even in Watership Down, after the rabbit's creator god Frith cursed rabbitkind with predators to cull their overpopulation, he still admired their determination to survive, and gave them the gifts of long, powerful legs to run and dig, a tail to flash bright as a warning to other rabbits, and keen ears to hear danger. "All the world will be your enemy, Prince-With-A-Thousand-Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you! Digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed."

.......Oops 😅 I meant to make a point there and ended up gushing about my favorite book.

[lilac drift]

... this. Just... all of this.

[modern crest]

So I did make a point after all?

[lilac drift]

Yes

[modern crest]

Yay!

[lilac drift]

Rabbits survive because they have extremely high endurance and speed, although they sacrifice armor and durability to achieve it. The most successful predators to hunt rabbits are either ambush predators, like snakes, or small and fast too, like stoats. It becomes a contest of endurance and perception.

Taking away they bio's large stam pool for "realism" makes it less realistic imo. Glowing prey is already at a massive disadvantage, punishing it's stam for that is just excessive.

I don't care if the bio's toxin is lethal or not, because it won't stop people from killing them for sport. What the bio needs, is cunning and wit to escape without getting caught, but that becomes infinitely harder if they run out of breath before they can even get ahead of their predators.

[modern crest]

Agreed. And yes, rabbits also have endurence, but I ran out of words. XD

And if the Bio is meant to be a "hummingbird" too, fine, but THEY also have endurance! Have you SEEN how far those birds fly in migration! 👀 It's insane! And that's somehow despite them needing to eat every 15 minutes or starve to death and go into actual torpor when they sleep during winter. Hummingbirds also eat insects. Why take that away from Bios?

[echo sable]

You made excellent points, I couldn't agree more with both of you, bio was "fine" being this defenseless until IT had it's own exclusive cave without predators, IT was inconvenient to be confined underground if you wanted to be safe, but IT was realistic and serviceable, but the moment they introduced asd As their natural predator and opened up their cave to others, IT needs more defense, or As you said, IT would die out instantly

[modern crest]

Btw, info on hummingbird migration for those curious:
https://www.birdsandblooms.com/birding/attracting-hummingbirds/five-fascinating-facts-about-fall-hummingbird-migration/#:~:text=Its main winter range is,the calendar and the map.

[lilac drift]

Exactly. I'm not to upset about it not eating bugs as long as there's ample flowers, but everything with a mouth can bite. Why take that away? A rabbit is no match for a fox, for example, but if a whole warren of rabbits is trapped with a fox in the way, they're going to fight back, and a large group of them could theoretically take down a fox if they were tenacious enough. They'd lose a ton of numbers, but hey there would be survivors

Well maybe not take it down, but at least hurt it enough that the hunt is no longer worth it and it leaves

[echo sable]

Like how honeybees ín japan take down giant hornets 10 times their size

[modern crest]

Personally, I'm not too upset about the acid spitter drakes getting into the caves, since rabbits need to deal with weasels and snakes that can get into their homes. What confuses me is why were ASD's made Bio's main predators at all? I thought ASD were immune to acid instead of poison.

[lilac drift]

Mhm. Bee bubble of death. They literally cook the wasps alive it's amazing

[echo sable]

Yeah i'm not upset about them getting a predator, i'm upset about them getting a predator but not the neccesery toolkit to combat them, and I assume they choose asd because the poison Drake isn't done yet

[modern crest]

Rabbits can disembowel housecats if they can get their hind legs into proper position.

[lilac drift]

Yeah, exactly. It's rare, but not impossible. A completely defenseless dragon is more unrealistic than a dragon with low stamina because it glows

[modern crest]

Ok fair point. But yes, the venom drake would make more sense as a predator of Bios since their element is poison, heck maybe they eat the Bios to GET their venom. It wouldn't surprise me if venom drakes came from underground too, since they somehow managed to follow the shadow scales from over the sea.

[echo sable]

I think venom drakes are from the desert? At least I remember reading ín lore about them luring dragons into the sandslayer nest

[modern crest]

No, that was wyverns, and it was during the war between dragons and wyverns. That's how the dragon's first king got eaten by the queen sandslayer worm.

Vemon drakes are from the same islands as shadow scales, and the reason the shadow scales left to find the Forgotten Forest was due to venom drakes killing and eating their hatchlings.

[echo sable]

Oh I see, I could swear I read drakes allying with the wyverns, but my memory is bad XD

[modern crest]

Nope, it was acid drakes allying with dragons during the war. And then ice drakes allying with them during the first war against the elementals

[echo sable]

Then my memory is realy betraying me XD

[modern crest]

I read all the lore posts last week. XD

So it's still pretty fresh in my mind. It was pretty cool stuff

[calm tree]

To me I understand giving the bio minimal combat capabilities because that’s not how it’s meant to be but then taking away a significant portion of its main abilities of speed and agility by massively nerfing it’s stamina makes it so it’s basically a free snack that glows in the dark. I find the concept of asd’s hunting them fun but in execution the bios are completely helpless because they have no defenses (and no having the same poison output of one of the red mushrooms will NEVER prevent their hunting) and no offensive capabilities. Giving them the potential to have a strong defense to keep dragons from getting a free meal would ensure that even if it’s a heck of a show for your eyes you shouldn’t get too close or reap the consequences because that’s be one heck of a trip

If it’s gonna be helpless in combat at least ensure that player won’t want to even try to get at it

All of this will also make for more interesting interactions as predators will have to get more creative with how they approach and actually hunt down bios

[dark spindle]

i feel like this is just rehashing the entire conversation i summarized earlier

[modern crest]

Bio just got mentioned in Livestream as "one of the top 3 fastest". So maybe there's still some hope during the survival testing phase.

[echo sable]

That actualy concerns me not reassures me, it's "one of the fastest" not THE fastest

[modern crest]

............and somebody brought up the idea of bio defense that does debuff but Jao still thinks of it as an attack so he said no. >_<

[echo sable]

And again, being the fastest ín short distance isn't a benefit when everything else can beat you ín endurance

[modern crest]

edited my post about Jao's bio answer

[modern crest]

Agreed.

To be fair though, Jao admitted he hasn't be thinking clearly during the entire stream and it's been going 3 hours straight.....

So maybe he just didn't understand what the asker meant by "debuff".

[echo sable]

His opinion was Always the same about bio, so I wouldn't have hopes it's just a mistake

[modern crest]

But there's a difference between a debuff and an attack.

[echo sable]

We know IT, everyone knows IT, but IT seems Jao doesn't care

At this point the CC skin is Way rarer Than any ks perk, including the bio (Jao even confirmed there Will be bio giveaways ín the future) and they still cling to the "p2w" excuse XD

[modern crest]

At least Bad Parrot said the bio still has testing to do.

[echo sable]

No hope left on my part...

[modern crest]

Need a hug?

[echo sable]

I'm fine, there's other games I can be excited for XD

[dark spindle]

i did hear this and i got fairly sad. if it cant run andd dies before it can get out of ranged hitboxes then it really cant do much fleeing

[echo sable]

Yep exactly

IT can't flee, IT can't attack, IT can't sustain any damage and IT can't hide, It's just a scrab on wings

Oh wait, scrabs can hide -.-

[modern crest]

They can?

[echo sable]

Wait are Scrabs the little ant with the hill Or the bigger round ones?

[snow plaza]

round ones

[echo sable]

Then no they can't XD I always called the small ones scrabs

[modern crest]

No, the little ones are thornbacks

also...... I'm wondering.... How do songbirds escape predators? Besides, rabbits, the bio feels like a pretty songbird to me. Do the birds have any way to defend themselves?

[echo sable]

They hide ín thick bushes where bigger birds can't reach them

[modern crest]

Does the bio even have that as an option?

[echo sable]

Nope, since zygovo is smaller and can perch ehile bio can't

[calm tree]

Wasn’t it originally advertised as the fastest lol?

Basically all bios are are glass dolls that shatter if you breathe too hard on it

If it’s not the fastest, has no means of doing damage both defense and offense, and has minimal stamina then how is it supposed to survive in nature? I vaguely remember it getting advertised as the fastest dragon in game so like I feel like the now fastest dragon that will succeed bio will actually have an attack cause it’s not ‘p2w’ (massive air quotes on that)

[calm tree]

Songbirds are usually extremely fast and agile and usually very clever. Ex being they will mimic predators or lure it somewhere else so they’ll leave them alone

So songbirds have better odds than the bio cause these methods are quite effective

Like just look up mockingbirds mimicking predators (might be a different bird but you could probably just look up songbirds mimicking predators)

So the real world equivalent for bio is id say if you made pandas a lil faster and can fly and there ya go

[modern crest]

But pandas are BEARS. They can still kick your butt if you make them mad.

[calm tree]

Pandas as a species is pretty helpless though

[modern crest]

This one guy ticked off a panda and got his leg shredded cause it bit him.

[calm tree]

They’re so bad at living that humans have to keep them alive

[modern crest]

Ok fair point. I can't argue with that.

[calm tree]

What I’m trying to say is bio is basically helpless and has no defenses lol and on top of that it’s the brightest thing in existence so it’s not even good at hiding

Like maybe if a species had no defenses but excellent camouflage abilities I may understand but bio has nothing, it’s breath weapon is useless, it’s ability to glow has essentially no gameplay purpose outside of being able to see a lil bit better and being an easier meal, and it has no means to fend off predators

Like even pretty harmless creatures in nature have a last resort to defending itself

[modern crest]

YUP.

[calm tree]

My heart goes out to all the ks who paid for a creature and it has been neglected day after day until it’s basically useless

[modern crest]

The bio is apparently toxic to eat, but only as much as a mushroom and even hatchlings snack on those things like candy. And that toxin does the bio no good because it's dead.

[modern crest]

Oh yeah. I did a whole wall of text about the bio compared to rabbits from my favorite book Watership Down.

[calm tree]

I feel like it’s toxin is basically irrelevant as EVERYONE eats the mushrooms without penalty

[calm tree]

Yeah I really liked the idea of bios being like the rabbits of watership down, but alas

[modern crest]

The bio is so helpless it's not even a rabbit. It's a BABY rabbit. It's a rabbit KITTEN. A free snack with wings.

[calm tree]

To me the bios shouldn’t have anything crazy but being extremely toxic and or maybe a feeble attack that would be able to fend off younger asds, or in very big groups maybe take down an adult asd. An attack would also be able to fend off zygovos, and as someone who is thrilled for zygovo I want a good fight out of it man

[modern crest]

And even baby rabbits can HIDE.

[calm tree]

Imagine a baby rabbit covered in glow stick juice and you have bio

[modern crest]

I was reassured by one of the devs, can't remember which though, that the zygovo will NOT be able to just feast on bio eggs. But I have no idea how they plan to do that.

[modern crest]

Yup.

[calm tree]

Probably extreme toxin I guess

Though I don’t see why bio can’t function somewhat like a poison dart frog meaning people won’t want to eat or even bite the bio or they would get pretty nasty side affects. Yes bile attacks would still be nasty for bio but it would also mean they’d have to be pretty precise or they would give the bio time to get away

Preferably bio would get it’s stam back but seeing how little Jao is to listening to changes for bio that’s becoming less likely

[stone jewel]

Idk maybe once people realize how easy it is to get your hands on a bio and will only want top stats anyways, making spawns useless, there will be enough people complaining of its survivability instead of p2w to listen. At this rate no one will play bio because it's not fun to play

[echo sable]

Jao already confirmed another bio giveaway in the future, currently the CC skin is Way more exclusive Than any ks perk ever XD

[calm tree]

I’m sure there’s gonna be bio giveaways for years honestly so anyone who really wants one can get it easily enough

Cause about every DoD yter can give them away same with the CC skin and Jao gives them away enough that I mean it’s not like there’s gonna be a shortage ever since all those people are gonna be nesting in whole servers

There’s never truly gonna be a shortage of people nesting in but people might not want to just cause of how defenseless and how much people are gonna be hunting down bios just cause

[echo sable]

Oh Yeah, there wouldn't have been an issue finding a nest, but now? Now IT Will be, because nobody Will play IT after the first week's magic is over

[calm tree]

People will see that their money went to basically a helpless dragon that the only thing going for it is it’s looks

And probably demand a change which is what I’m hoping for but who knows

[echo sable]

We already demanded a change, not once, not twice, and nothing happened XD

[calm tree]

Cause Jao apparently thinks bio getting a defense is seen as it getting an attack so I guess we’re not getting one lol

[ionic patrol]

Maybe if it could burrow

or if it had a dodge ability idk. This gonna be the dryosaurus of dod innit

[modern crest]

Lusewing's video about the livestream mentioned that bios "do really well" at speed and running away from danger. And that apprently bios can't Elder.

[echo sable]

Yeah bios and zygovos can't get to Elder, and i'm not sure about that "do realy well", last Time I checked bios were mass murdered on the test server

[calm tree]

I can’t imagine they can, if they’re only top 3 regarding speed and generally speaking can get one shot very easily I don’t see them ‘getting away easily’ especially with their stamina along with them being a neon laser for your eyes

I mean it’s still pretty good speed but if speed is their only defense and they’re not even best at that how exactly are they supposed to get away from creatures only a little slower or with very long distance bile attacks (I’m referring to ss here)

We’re not asking for a game gaming defense we’re just asking for one that may deter people from mass slaughter of like colonies of bios

[ionic patrol]

Yea lol, they can outrun something but if it sees them first it can just aim its skill before it can get away without needing to catch up

I joked but i think this is literally gonna be the dryo of the dod (if anyone plays the isle you get this reference)

[modern crest]

Anthomnia testing a bio during the livestream. Thoughts?
#content-creator-videos message

[calm tree]

Yeah but at least dryo can camouflage and can do the dodge thing. Imagine dryo but extremely bright and shiny and you got bio lol

[grand pewter]

BP's comment is in the pins along with a few clarifications

[modern crest]

Thanks!

[modern crest]

And sorry for my rant about the rabbits. I know the bio is still being worked on, but I needed to get that off my chest.

[echo sable]

I think the issue isn't how the bio IS right now, but the systematic ignoring of the problem and the lack of official answer, if we could be sure that It's state isn't final and Will be adjusted, then that would give some reassurance, but unfortunately Jao's last stream answers contradicted of what Parrot said and even made the situstion more worrysome
As far as we know the bio is final and doomed

[calm tree]

The sheer lack of information and clarification is making everyone worried for what the bio will be, and I mean can you blame us? For all we know bio will be a completely helpless and generally very low utility dragon that will be hunted for sport and nothing that the bio has or can do will be able to stop them. Honestly I’m afraid that after a month of the update people will generally stop using bio once the magic of release is gone and players see how helpless they truly are

[echo trail]

That's my worry as well. Popular at the start because cute glowstick

After 573 deaths and being told go play PvE or Get a Clan and then logging off after the troll murders the Flower Areas for the day

3 people playing Bio

[echo sable]

Yep i'm pretty sure that's what Will happen

[lilac drift]

Well I think a few of us are hoping that once the bio does release, there's going to be an uptick in people saying it's unplayable, the devs will finally listen. Jao may not want the bio to be p2w, but I doubt he wants it to go extinct in half the servers either.

[echo trail]

If Jao reads this thread my suggestion is this

Don't use the first 2 weeks of data as a indicator. Take the MMO approach and wait for the META to develop in PvP / CvC servers. That will show what needs tweaking.

PvP is full of the Hardcore Gamers / Try Hards who min/max everything. If they use it 90% of the time then that's what is strongest guaranteed and if you see something with a 1% usage rate then it's obviously got issues

[echo sable]

IT needs to be a world changing miracle what makes hím do anything positive with ks stuff XD

[lilac drift]

oooof

[echo trail]

Honestly from what I've seen of the Bio it's not bad it just needs some tweaks/balancing and at least some way to defend or fight back

Does it need to be able to 1v1 a Flame Stalker? NO absolutely not. But conversely a Hatchling ASD or SS should not be an Avenger's level threat

[lilac drift]

Honestly, I love the bio, it's my favorite dragon. But with the amount of mistreatment it's getting, it might end up being my least favorite to play. I'm not much of a PVP player, but I do dabble. Having a fast, clever dragon was something I was really looking forward to in 1.0, but now I might not get it.

[echo trail]

I'm of the wait and see approach

[echo sable]

Yeah we all agree on that, nobody wants the bio to be a powerhouse, just be able to survive without being a neurotic ball of Stress what jumps át any noise and dies by cringe dmg XD

[echo trail]

I agree 100% a singular dragon landing near 10-20 Bios should not warrant the response of

OMG RUN! ABANDON EVERYTHING AND LOG OUT!!!

everybody died when the dragon hit Q

[lilac drift]

Yep

Tbh, I'm losing hope that Jao even reads this thread. I know the mods do, and Parrot probably does, but I don't think Jao cares. I don't mean to be rude, but I think it would pretty obvious how over-the-top worried about it we are, even if you were to just glance at this thread.

[echo sable]

Well if that dragon is a hybrid, I would deffinitely run and hide, but I don't want to shiver by the Sound of rustling leaves every step and get a heart attack when a pixel moves 10km away Because it's maybe an asd preparing to snipe me

[lilac drift]

Yeah. I want there to be more to the bio than just hiding in a cave, shaking and hoping an asd doesn't sneak in and snipe me. I want to be able to get out there and have fun without being forcefully refined to PVE because every sound could be death lurking in the bushes.

[echo sable]

That's why the one shot immunity the zygovo has would be a great ability for the bio, it's not game breaking, but let's you survive the first hit of an ambush and give you a chance to flee

[lilac drift]

Idk, I'm just tired of it. The lack of answers, or any sort of interest at all from the devs is just irritating. I'm not even a kickstarter, I'm just upset to see my favorite dragon tossed in the dirt like this.

[echo sable]

Same, Ace, same

[echo trail]

Well you don't have to worry about bushes in PvP lol. Everyone sets all settings besides Textures and View Distance to minimum in PvP. Extra visual fluff is a hindrance! Unless the Official Servers pull a Eternal Darkness Ark server gimmick and lock certain graphical settings

[lilac drift]

If only bushes were in my top ten concerns.

[echo trail]

It's my 4th lol because the game is gorgeous on maxed settings but the most popular mode is PvP and that's never gonna be seen there unless you're a masochist

[echo sable]

Jao said they'll fix the disappearing bushes, but... we'll see if we see

[lilac drift]

At this point, I would be happy only with an indication that we're being heard. Right now, all we're getting is "Noo everything makes it p2w, it's not fair" and then giving out six keys in a giveaway with another coming soon so it's not even special to people who bought it in the first place.

Like bro. You'd better be making the bio as accessible as possible so that less people complain about it and you can actually make it playable, because any other excuse will just make me lose faith in you.

[echo sable]

Yeah same

At this point I wouldn't even mind if it's made unlockable, IF that means IT can get some survivability

[echo trail]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-care-futurama-no-feelings-gif-5488075

[calm tree]

I’m not a ks and probably won’t play it either way but seeing the unfair treatment to the poor ks players who have been waiting with bated breath for a creature that has been neglected and been tossed into nothing at this point. I don’t see how making the bio a viable creature to play makes it p2w when the game sells so many better creatures as dlc and when a mating pair can populate the whole map as a bio. I just want the bio to be able to survive and actually enjoy the experience as a bio, maybe not for myself but for other players

The players logic is “this dragon, that has no attack or defense is super p2w, but that game changing fire behemoth dragon that costs $10 and you probably won’t be able to play it unless you buy it because of the imbalance of male to female ratio is super fair and fun. But this one dragon that can’t do anything to me is p2w cause I missed the ks campaign”

[lilac drift]

Well, we've mentioned before that the behemoth is probably also going to get a ton of backlash once it's closer to getting released. But for now, the bio is the only dragon behind a paywall that most people don't already have (like the ASD), so it's the one that gets the focus of the hate.

[echo trail]

I don't think you will see Behemoths outside of Clan play since they apparently eat enough to cause other dragons in the area to starve to death and require a Clan to keep fed. I'm imagining it's something to the tune of yeeting adult dragons into it's mouth.

AFAIK based on what I've heard it will be virtually if not totally impossible to solo grow

But that's a different topic

[echo sable]

I Will try IT just for the lolz, but I play on a private server with pretty lenient mods who give out refills if needed

[lilac drift]

Just want to slide in and say that I'm on the test server rn. The bio has been given the ability to regain stam while glowing back. I haven't tested the amount of stam since there's only a few creatures, but at least one nerf was reversed.

[echo sable]

At least something, babysteps I guess

[dark spindle]

it also feels like bio was given its stamina back? hard to tell without racing an ss

[lilac drift]

Felt like that for me too but I was only on for a short time

[modern crest]

Guys! There's at least one big tree in the new map that bios can perch in. Call Me Pancake even landed a broodwatcher on a branch!
#content-creator-videos message

[glossy bobcat]

isn't that also why it's the fastest flyer in game? and primarly egg eaters

[echo sable]

Your speed worths nothing when an asd or ss can snipe you before they even render in on your screen, plus during the Christmas stream Jao said it's "one of the 3 fastest" so I have doubts now about being THE fastest

[glossy bobcat]

all the micros are going to be fast

but thats exactly it your micro, your teeth to small claws to small and they don't seem to actully have scales imo so no def anyway. give them hips'y spit puff of pollen like a octpopus ink blurr the view of anything near by - till people get sick of being trolled by it cuz bios want to be near nests as a pro con - pro arn't they making eggs hatch faster, con they also want to eat your eggs. your trying to give a humming birn teeth, it's a prey dragon by the looks of it, that is going to be the risk playing mico.

[echo sable]

I think you're mixing things up, bio and micro are 2 different dragons, bio has no bite or buff for eggs, bio can do nothing besides glowing

[glossy bobcat]

bio is a mirco/small type dragon if you look at it's stats page.

[echo sable]

But it's not the micro feathered dragon, the micro is smaller Than the bio and still has a bite, a one shot protection buff and provides buff for others for nesting

[glossy bobcat]

anything bigger then it is going to try and eat it, though don't see 5 dragons wateing the effort as it's not going to be worth the effort for a bite

what means primarly 3's aka the asd's

[echo sable]

Just like the bio, but IT still has nothing to it's name, besides being poisonous like a red mushroom, which deters nobody

[glossy bobcat]

when your straving everyone eats mushrooms

[echo sable]

Exactly

[spark mantle]

reminder that the bio is a cosmedic dragon NOT a pvp dragon at all. It was not made to be a pvp dragon at all

[glossy bobcat]

then have to sleep and your exposed to other players. ^ Exactly.

[echo sable]

We never said IT needs to be a PvP dragon, IT needs to SURVIVE, and saying "go play pve" is not an answer, it's like saying if you want to use your white skin you can do IT only ín pve

[glossy bobcat]

dragon survival game ?

everyone in a pvp setting is going to be on their toes eating anything they can to survive, could be wrong in the guess and assume anything class 1 or 2 is a 'prey' dragon hence their primary diet may consist of eggs - something that doesn't fight back. or like the broodkeeper strait up herbavores and only eat plant material, brood just offers a perk to other dragons not to kill it on sight xD

[echo sable]

And brood is a heckin tank XD T5 I think?

Bio was supposed to be a species evolved ín an isolated cave without predators explaining why it's so defenseless, but they changed that and made asd it's main predator which would necesitate IT to have some sort of defense against IT, because ín real life the bios would die out faster Than how pizza disappears ín a party
You can't put a "cosmetic" dragon into a PvP game and expect people to just leave IT alone, we don't want to take the bio into PvP, but PvPers want to and will harrass bios, and ignoring this fact is denying reality

[half shore]

The thing is, Bios -will- be used in PvP Anyways already, though only in very limited amounts.
The spittle will make it much easier to pinpoint your target for the rest of the clan for example, and their speed and smallness make them absolutely stellar scouts. Just as examples.
I am wondering how much you expect a bite from a Bio to actually hurt -anything- at all. Like, 0.1% to an FS/IR?

Or alternately, what sort of idea you have for them as a defense.

[echo sable]

We didn't talk about bite or any offensive ability, we talk about defense, and no speed isn't defense when their "main predator" can spit the from across the map what removes their small stamina if not kills them instantly, and said predator is even immune to their laughably weak poison
The one shot immunity the micro currently have would be an excellent defense for the bio, IT can't be exploited ín battle, but gives them at least a chance to escape if ambushed

[half shore]

...The ASD has way less range than "across the map", at least last I checked. And the main predator being able to catch you with no downside makes sense to me.
If they get the one shot immunity, what will the Micro get to actually make it a viable dragon for PvP and not be a copy-paste with different feeding?

The bite bit was something I've seen others complain about plenty, sorry if that came in from the side angle.

[echo sable]

But then you still have the fact that a bio can't defend it's own nest or food source, but that could be solved with clever map design
The micro still have it's nesting buff and the protection buff IT can apply to other dragons with grooming

And honestly why should a micro, what's smaller Than the bio be a "PvP" dragon anyway?

[half shore]

Going by what Parrot said in the sticky posts, the Bio is meant to be quick to die and grow anyways. 🤷
And I guess the Micro we will have to wait for until it actually releases.
Will say, giving it some sort of "Evade Danger, -once-" option seems a good idea to me, but then that makes it even more abusable as a scout in PvP which it is not meant to be used for by design.

[echo sable]

"Quick to die" is different Than being able to do anything about dieing, I don't mind dieing if it's because I lack the skills to escape, but not having a Way to escape is the problem... Even if you manage to outfly your chasers, everywhere a bio can go a micro can too and they opposed to BIOS have a bite, so they are free to attack a colony of bios and slowly chip away their health while the bios can do nothing but scream ín terror and flee...and knowing this community they Will be bullied out of areas with flowers instantly

[half shore]

I believe you overestimate the sheer malice of people on PvP servers. Which is a sentence even I am surprised to say, given I play on them and know the community there.
People there on average tend to have -way- better things to do than specifically camp flower spots to grief people that can't do anything to them, and the 1-2 that will try can't hunt everyone down at once either, so some will always get away and hide somewhere that isn't easy to reach.
Micros for example also have zero benefit of griefing Bio's, as it was specified that (somehow) they will be balanced to not benefit as much from stealing bio eggs and biting the parents to death gives them absolutely nothing given they don't eat meat.

One thought that came to me just now was making Bios highly acid resistant or not get the spittle-debuff that drains stam, to make it actually some level of work for ASDs to catch more than the careless.

[echo sable]

I read with my own eyes how people already plan to bring asd babies into bio nesting areas to harrasse them, so no, I don't think I overestimate them

[half shore]

Which would require there to be dedicated Bio nesting areas, which is not a thing I can imagine being. At the very least not in the current map.

[echo sable]

There were, the glowing caves were the dedicated bio nesting space with small enough entrances that only they (and ofc micros) can enter

[half shore]

And that prevents Bios from nesting anywhere else?

[echo sable]

With their Hunger and thirst being so fast to drain they need to nest next to flower and water sources which makes them easy to track

[half shore]

With their ridiculous speed, they can be pretty far away from both for anyone to track them, as well.

In my head at least, I have Bio's saved as the Dragon-world-equivalent of winged Mice or maybe Rabbits. They can't really do anything if a Wolf wants to eat them either, except run away and hide in spots the Wolf can't reach.
They can fight off a Fox in good circumstances, which I would compare to the Micro, but we will have to see how that turns out once the Micro is anywhere -near- coming out.

Though I get the concern, especially because of grandstanding idiots threatening ridiculous levels of griefing. I will still stay in the camp of "at best very minor adjustments -post- update to see how they behave in a living environment."

[echo sable]

If bios got their exclusive cave back I would be fine with that... don't bar off the whole glowing caves, just a part of it where they can be safe, and if you decide to go outside you take the risk
And IT can be done, even making IT safe from micros by making a "2 storie" cave where the lower floor is accessible to everyone and the upper floor's entrance is on the ceiling so the only Way of getting ín is hoovering upwards which only the bio can do

[half shore]

And in the scenario of hyperaggressive Micros coming to kill everything as you referenced above, they just camp the lower floor and starve the Bios out on the upper one then. Not really that much better. 😄

[echo sable]

I assume there would be flowers ín there just like how the rest of the caves do

[half shore]

Eeeeeh. That feels very much parallel society-ish, not like actual Multiplayer Survival. If they have a safe space with everything they need, then there's no real point to playing them at all.

Which is pretty much a point I also crusade against in the CvC Thread somewhere in this forum thingemabob too, parallel societies are a bane to me.

[echo sable]

That's the bio's literal backstory XD they evolved closed off from the world and only the arrival of the Elementals opened up their caves, if you want them to be part of the ecosystem they NEED defenseive and (very limited) offensive capabilities, because no truly helpless creatures would survive the food chain

[half shore]

In regular nature, speed and nimbleness and being-able-to-fit-in-spaces is legit defensive survival strategies, though. So it has defensive capabilities by that logic. That's all I am saying! 😄
Not gonna continue with it though, cause I'll be a broken record otherwise and it gets stale.

[echo sable]

Ín nature the creatures with speed As a defense have more endurance Than their predators (eg: antelope VS ceetah) and creatures small enough to fit ín spaces are smaller Than their predators and Will attack if said predator still manages to get ín their space (lemings are a great Example of the smallest thing being hyper agressive exactly because it's so small)

An a telope, or rabbit's brain is hardwired to notice the danger before it's too late, their reaction Time is faster Than humanly possible, and antelopes even have a 360 degree vision Range and excellent low light vision so they can't be surprised, while bio's vision is the same restricted one As every other dragons

[echo sable]

Imagine ín an FPS game they give founders a weapon what glows ín neon colors, makes your dash super fast, but ín exchange you have to stop for 10 sec after every dash, does no damage just makes the enemy you shoot from close Range glow, and when you complain they say "just go play against bots, lol" that's the bio now
And something we all overlooked is the fact that pve wasn't even a planned gamemode, it's just there because the community asked for it...what would happen if Jao decides not to do IT? What would you say to the bios where to play?

[echo trail]

Personally i think the whole "its a cosmetic dragon" argument is extremely stupid and wasnt very well thought out during the concept phase especially for a "Survival" game.

Again the arguement surrounding the Bio is not that it needs to be a PvP powerhouse but it needs to have something that prevents someone from just walking up and griefing the poor thing.

Yes it grows in 30 minutes thats not the point if you can die from a twig snapping 50 feet away

And sadly based on the livestream its not even going to be embracing its original concept of being the Dragon equivalent of a Defenseless Speedster as its only going to be "Top 3 in speed" which means that other dragons and possibly Elders with speed speccing will simply outrun it anyways

[modern crest]

You're fine. I think we're all pretty much broken records in here at this point, but the conversation is still interesting. Please feel free to stay. 🙂

[echo trail]

See when the Bio was pitched i was extremely interested as it was stated to be the fastest and relied on that speed to survive. Well when you play on an offcial server you will quickly realise that speed matters very little for an E Blood when fighting even a C Blood as they have more stamina and can just chase you down. The amount of times i lost an Adult SS with 2 Agile investment to a singular FS that simply ran me down in the air is hilarious

[modern crest]

As for my thoughts, I've made several comparasions of bios to rabbits in here while gushing about Watership Down at the same time.

We don't want the bio to be a PvP critter, we want it to be PLAYABLE at all without it being a crippled rabbit with a glowing neon sign literally painted on saying "Free Lunch".

Anything in nature THAT brightly colored should be avoided due to it being posionous or venomous anyway.

[echo trail]

I think if the devs are absolutely adamant about it not having any attack or defense then they need to go all in.

Give the Bio a bigger Stamina Pool

Give the Bio a higher speed than any other dragon to the point that failing an ambush means its just gone

Make it so that the Bio is always Glowing unless they Suppress it costing them Stamina drain similar to the SS Cloak

This way everyone screaming that it would be too good a scout wouldnt have a leg to stand on cause you let the Neon Glowstick fly right into your group for Screenshots to the clan discord

[modern crest]

Huh...... Interesting work around. Although the constant glowing would cause player eyestrain after awhile wouldn't it?

[echo trail]

Reducing the Bloom effect so its not a near flashbang of light would likely help

[half shore]

See, I like Waffles suggestion. 😄

Though Speed does matter quite a lot, especially with a rabid difference as the Bio will have to basically anything else. (at least anything else that is playable at the given time)

Heck, it even makes sense with them predominantly living in Caves. They might use that light to get around.

[calm tree]

Honestly I was thinking like the fuller the bio is the more stamina it has. So think about this, the bio has an extremely large pool of stamina if it’s relatively full but you start to see a difference at the 50% marks and so on because bios use those flowers for like a quick boost of energy and need to eat a lot so I feel like this would give more incentive to stay full. What do you guys think

[glossy bobcat]

and that i have seen myself a 'sprint' flying dragon still out paces a sprinting asd

[glossy bobcat]

or make it brighter as a defence , twice as potent to the asd sensitive nightvison

[echo sable]

I'm afraid that would cause issues with epileptic or photo sensitive people

[modern crest]

Yup.

[calm tree]

And with that risk it would be toggable so people could just turn it off making the ability pointless if you could just shut it off

[dark spindle]

oh boy the cycle repeats once again and people have to reclarify bios issues and the same arguements repeat. i thought my last message was supposed to clarify that

i too am concerned that jao hesitated and said its "one of the fastest" and not THE fastest.

the hesitation took a long time and its really unfortunate that bio may be getting another nerf for a reason we dont understand.

[formal osprey]

yeah theres almost 2000 messages here its a lot

[calm tree]

I mean I think it’s new people entering the discussion so we have to repeat why this thread is important but yeah, bio will probably not be changed because Jao is adamant that giving it a defense will mean it has offense capabilities which isn’t even what we’re asking for. Bio will probably remain unchanged until probably a good bit after the update, IF it’s even changed, seeing how adamant the devs are it’s kind of doubtful it will be honestly

[lilac drift]

At least we seem to for now have stam and speed back, so that's something.

[calm tree]

I mean at least they changed something rather than turning the other way I guess

Better than nothing

[dark spindle]

#1177757879466475530 message
slaps this
bio doesnt need anything more, it doesnt need a "flashbang" it doesnt need a "defensive venom" it doesnt need really anything classified as a "defense" to """fix""" it. its a shallow fix to think thats all itll take to fix the bio.
my point was that bio was obsessived over to be "anti-p2w" and that severely hurt its survival. it didnt need things added, it needed things restored

[lilac drift]

👆

[lilac drift]

This.

It took me a while to first realize what people were asking for in here. But when I realized that the bio was originally not this flawed and had a lot of features removed under the pressure p2w hysteria, I was very, very upset.

We're not asking for the bio to have new features added that could be exploitable. We're asking for the bio to be returned to what it used to be, before it was turned into a glorified wall flower.

[modern crest]

👆Yes. That.

[grand pewter]

Ok, I'd like to see if I can clear some things up about this discussion, but first I have a few questions to make sure I understand the whole situation in here. Answers to these may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but WOW this thread has gotten long, so please bear with me.

1: What are the nerfs/features referred to when you say the bio dragon was nerfed and had features removed?

• In this thread I keep seeing mentions of bio getting nerfed because of others accusing it of being pay to win, however I don't recall this ever happening. The closest I've seen to this is general changes during testing. I've seen a lot of worry about bio's survivability but if further testing reveals the bio to be too slow or lacking enough stamina to have a chance at escape, it will be balanced accordingly - that is what testing is for and the bio is still in that phase. Since the kickstarter, the bio has been advertised as a fast-flying cosmetic dragon with no attack damage, and as this is still the case so I am unsure what is meant when it's said that features were removed.

2: When were the devs pressured into nerfing the bio due to accusations of the bio being pay to win?

• I've seen this rumor pop up a lot in this thread and I honestly do not know where it is coming from. The devs do take feedback from the community, but at the end of the day it is their decision on how to balance each creature - even if some disagree on the best way to handle that balancing. Was there a particular event that caused you to believe the devs were pressured into nerfing the bio?

[echo sable]

1. It was supposed to have a weak bite (even it's lore says so) so it can bring food to hatchies and still survive if there's no flowers around.
   It was also supposed to be a high stamina flyer what almost never lands, so you can zoom around the map
   It was supposed to have a cave for itself where nothing else can get into harrass it
   It's not even "the" fastest dragon anymore but "one of the three fastest"
   Let me know if I missed something XD
2. Every suggestion we give, every feedback we provide is shut down (even by Jao) with the reason of "no the bio can't be bought anymore so giving it any fighting potential is p2w", isn't this enough proof? But here are some more:
   People were concerned that the bio's speed and stamina will be used for scouting, so they took away the stamina
   People felt it unfair that only bios can enter parts of the caves so it was opened up for everyone (and even if not, zygovos would be able to enter anyway)
   People were concerned that the bio's weak bite and speed will make them a "hit n run" expendable fighting force, so the bite was removed
   People were concerned that bio's will use their glow to "mark target" in pvp so they changed it that you can only glow up friendly dragons (tho I think this was reversed)

[echo sable]

but can you answer a question as well? Since PvE wasn't a planned game mode and was added because people asked for it, would the bio get the same treatment if PvE mode doesn't exist? Would it be still fair to impair a dragon this much just because it's a (half) closed species and what would you say to people where to play if they complain about getting harrassed and pushed away from nesting areas because they can't defend themselves?

[dark spindle]

Haz hit it pretty much on the head. For some reason the bio was nerfed because it could be a scouter, and while sure, some nerfs would be warranted, completely removing its bite? Even in one of the dev qna there was an idea thrown out by a dev (i think it was jao) that had bio to not be able to spit on people outside of group, but we're not entirely sure the reason why that was even speculated.
Exculding things that happened in testing, bio has been pressured to be less and less capable of anything. I understand future changes can be implimented, but the fact bio had a balance nerf so heavy as to take away its bite entirely before it even existed, to the point where a bite animation hasnt even been shown to us; to potentially keep zygovos or other future teir 2/teir 1s off their nests. Bios bite is one of those things where we want to bring it back before bio becomes finalized and in game, since it would make asking for the team to instantly revisit the bio like that a bit difficult. Even a bite that only works up to teir 3 scales or something before it doesnt even illicit a pain noise could work, since anything above that bio shouldnt be attacking anyways

[echo sable]

Yep we are told not to worry about the changes made because if they don't fit they will be balanced, but the same changes were made BECAUSE people worried before the bio even hit the test server

[dark spindle]

we understand that things get changed and modified before they enter the game but bio had nothing but nerfs, some of which were only reversed after a large disapproval.
as for the p2w side of things, dod inherently has a "p2w" blaming issue with its dlc that have existed since the asd. its only natural that the bio, being completely inacessible without a nonpurchasable key or being nested, would also have similar backlash. I see a bit of it in game, and in conversations in other servers. People also generally have a lot of disapproval of the bio being able to do things (a very "if i cant have it neither can you" kind of attitude, intended or not, that i see frequently in other games exculsive stuff like BoB too)

You really don't have to clear up anything as Parrot already did so.

Bio has had significant pressure on it to reduce it to a "do nothing" dragon, to the point where it even nearly inhibited some of its originally backed traits (ex bio being described as "one of the fastest" after significant pause instead of "the fastest" like it was for its entire lifespan)

if the bio isnt the fastest, then theres a dragon that can run it down. And with every dragon save for the nurse dragon having a bile attack, it means it can be shot as well when caught up to.
The hover wont save it as the hover is very clunky presently (hard to manuver, cant turn in place, cant instantly resume flight and instead must fall some first)
Any potential agility bonus wont save it either as the sky-high nature of the faster dragons means theres nowhere to quickly hide once you outturn something

The reason why this thread keeps going is because the upteenth person comes in here and says "what if the bio got a blinding flash??" and the cycle starts all over again

[echo sable]

And it's also important to understand from the Dev's side that you can't put a "cosmetic only" dragon into a pvp game and expect people to leave them alone because they can't attack anyone...when people backed for the bio, they backed it for a pvp game, expecting to play it in a pvp situation (again, PvE was not planned at that time) so "go play PvE" isn't an excuse I can accept
We don't want it to be good in pvp, not even decent, we want it to have a chance to survive

[dark spindle]

its not expected to be a PvP dragon, but it IS expected to survive in PvP

i understand buffs will come to the bio where needed and thats why i really dont engage with this thread anymore, i only reiterate what i posted earlier + what parrot said

i dont wanna play pve. i only play pve now because pvp is literally too toxic for me to enjoy it.
Once the bio drops i can be a clanless bio and flutter around watching fights and definately die along the way, since i do greatly enjoy the risk of pvp. I dislike the nesting simulator/stat grind of PvE because theres no real downside, no risk outside of food and water, of which you can feed yourself easily so long as you know the spawns. And easy food is not planned and is expected to be expanded upon with the snapper being able to kill babies, and probabaly do a tough chunk of damage to a dragon + being hard to fight in the water

But i like the PvP, and not the predictive AI of PvE. I just hope toxicity goes down too with 1.0

[echo sable]

I do enjoy a good PvE bosfight, but I must admit the current PvE in DOD Is indeed boring XD I hope the sandslayer and elementals will spice it up a bit (hope they'll get a good AI to them)

[pallid escarp]

This games alt account system with nesting and dlc of blitz and fire behemoth and asd are far more p2w then the bio... Jaos logic is heavily flawed...

[grand pewter]

ok it's been a hot minute but I now have an approved response to post in regards to your concerns

[grand pewter]

I've confirmed with Midnight that a) bio was never planned to have a damage-dealing bite and b) will have the highest speed. The bio bite lore was mentioned in an early Patreon lore post, but I found no mentions of this being planned in-game. On the kickstarter and later in the bio's official concept reveal ⁠#social-media message, bio has been advertised as a cosmetic species, not good at combat by design, and that it has no defense other than speed and maneuverability. Bio not having attacks was also stated since 2021: #general-chat message. The concept reveal announcement clarified that the bio is the fastest flying dragon, and this was again confirmed by Bad Parrot just recently ⁠#general-chat message. The bio announcement also states bio can glow spit on dragons in pvp to keep track of potential predators, BP has confirmed that #kickstarters-kingdom message "it's always been planned for bio's to spit on anyone in PvP."

I recall many discussions regarding bio stam taking place early in development, but devs did state back in 2022 #kickstarters-kingdom message that bio "won't have good stamina" and instead be suited for "short burst of super speed," "just enough to get away." If there were any dev-confirmed plans with bio stamina mentioned prior to this, I did not find them. Shimmering Caverns is the natural habitat for bios and they spawn there, but I found no mention of plans for bios having caves all to themselves; Midnight confirmed other dragons can go into caves. If you do find any dev messages that confirm these features, please let me know! There's so much to search through so it's possible I missed something.

[grand pewter]

PvE was added extremely early in development, but whether the gamemode exists or not is irrelevant. As Bad Parrot stated previously, bios have a different pvp playstyle than other dragons since they're "meant to live fast, make lots of babies, and die young. They are quick growing, the fastest dragons in the game, and can fly from birth. They are more for players who want to be annoying without being dangerous in PvP." Bios are not impaired by the lack of an attack, but they do have a different playstyle which may not appeal to everyone. And again, if it's found that adjustments are needed to increase survivability and make sure bios are fun to play, the devs are completely capable of doing so - this is what testing is for after all.
The last part of your question about bios getting harassed is completely hypothetical at the moment as we don't yet know how the in-game dynamics will play out with the new map, new systems, etc. Since bio's only defense is speed and they cannot kill attackers, they'll need to make use of different tactics such as hiding their nests in obscure or hard to get locations. They can also attach nests to walls, and bio being the only dragon capable of hovering makes it very difficult for other dragons to get to those nests even in open areas. Obviously harassment is not ok, but bio needs tested live first to see if this will be an issue.

---

We welcome and encourage feedback, however not all suggestions will align with the dev's vision for the game. Even so, where has feedback about the bio been shut down and where have the devs been pressured into changing the bio? The bio has always been planned to be cosmetic - it's been said for years that cosmetic dragons will not have attacks, but this doesn't equate to devs not listening to feedback or being pressured into changing features. I can't stress enough that it's ok to disagree and have your own opinions on development! However, just because a feature is perceived as popular doesn't guarantee that the feature will be put into the game.

[modern crest]

Saw this video, was reminded of the Bio, wanted to share the cool video.
Also avoid this video if you have a bug phobia:
https://youtu.be/v-s714RNXHY?si=BYSyTPUqsYSe18dB

[thick knoll]

That was a fun watch XD

[tacit rivet]

Mate, thanks so much for sharing that. It’s brilliant.