You can but they didn’t pretend to not be a casino
#beta-discussion
blazing sail
tawny prairie
so because they need support single items can be priced at the price for many items?
blazing sail
Sky is pretending to be different
vapid drum
Guys , sky is just a game , like in real life you’ll always have things you want but can’t always get
tawny prairie
I don’t even want the swing
orchid nexus
Every product out there is the same. some things you want and can't have. we wouldn't have a gucci meme without this
tawny prairie
I’m asking for a standpoint on why they price the way they do
livid ice
The problem is not the swing
Is the price
For a single item
Catch everything going up in 3 months
dire rover
They clearly are listening to mobile game consultants who do this for a living, with Sky being TGC’s first mobile game they’re doing alright with the passes and value for money, but again items like the swing with valentines coming up and pricing it for $20-$25 dollars is ludicrous.
We could pull in the “most people spend that on star bucks anyways” and I don’t think that’s a fair comparison, as addiction and aggressive overpricing isn’t an excuse for lowering your own company’s standards
blazing sail
There’s a price tag, but until the holiday items started, there was still a sense of giving. Friends with more money could gift the seasonal passes to those who couldn’t afford it
livid ice
Catch a lot of people deleting the game for the high prices
tawny prairie
it’s a repeated issue with most holiday single items
blazing sail
And $10 for a whole slew of items is very different from one item available only for a few days for $20-25
It feeds off FOMO
You can’t be a responsible adult and weigh whether you can spare the $20 because it’ll be gone in a few days
You can’t save up for it
You can’t wait until you have a better week/month
dire rover
If we didn’t say anything here it would likely still be $25. Then again they’re baiting it so it’s 5x the price anyways
vapid drum
It’s just the opinion of a few people I read now , where’s the rest of the players ???
orchid nexus
We're all speaking in generalizations, and that makes the whole discussion political. How about specifics: who here has bought every one-off item in the live game?
blazing sail
I only bought the Santa hat because I couldn’t justify $25 for a Halloween costume
livid ice
Every constellation?
vapid drum
Me 🤗and I don’t even wear them 🤣
orchid nexus
lol rob
livid ice
Or every from seasonal?
orchid nexus
no, the one-offs. the expensive ones
livid ice
I have almost every seasonal and every constellation
orchid nexus
I haven't because I don't want them
tawny prairie
bought the Santa hat but don’t wear it because it lacks hair lol
livid ice
And I don’t wear the regular ones
I wear only seasonal
I have all seasons except 6 items from gratitude
orchid nexus
I don't feel bad about not buying the bat cape, the santa hat, or the pumpkin
blazing sail
Ok, Alex. But not everyone has the same willpower and again, I don’t think the game’s message gels with this monetization scheme
vapid drum
Santa hat has no hair ???
orchid nexus
I feel I paid a fair price for the seasons
tawny prairie
it’s bald ):
dire rover
I got the Santa hat and the winter piano pack as I didn’t get that when I was playing in limited live from being unable to play enough
tawny prairie
seasons I think are a good price
vapid drum
Poor Santa
orchid nexus
I feel happy about paying a larger price for the founders cape
blazing sail
You can’t pretend the message of the game is the same as some gacha freemium game about fighting monsters.
tawny prairie
but I just dislike the other prices , I didn’t buy the hat or cape because they price was nuts
vapid drum
The message of the game is while playing , not how it handles the purchases
dire rover
Not wanting them is also a similar concern tbh, did you not want them because of the extraordinary price or just that you didn’t like it?
Would you buy them if they were more reasonably priced?
tawny prairie
I would have bought the bat cape if it was under 10$
blazing sail
You can’t separate the game from its monetization
dire rover
At least you get candles with the founders
tawny prairie
I didn’t agree with the price of them so I didn’t buy them
blazing sail
They don’t exist in separate dimensions
orchid nexus
So the other arguments I'm reading sound like stirring up resentment over what individuals presume a large group of people might feel, that's why I jumped in. The discussion seemed slanted and unfair. Talk about what your spending habits are, and that's fine.
tawny prairie
I bought the founders cape to give them money
dry pivot
I won't buy the swing not because it's expensive but because I don't need/want it as it is
I may buy the invisible cape for $50
livid ice
Alex isn’t Right for anyone to pay 20 dollars for some pixels
tawny prairie
So people are okay with single items for larger prices?
orchid nexus
Dae, that's entirely subjective what people get value from
that's why we can only talk about our own individual experience
blazing sail
Look, I don’t spend money on abusive F2P games. That doesn’t mean I can’t be bothered about what those games do to people and (mobile) gaming as a whole
livid ice
Well they can feed TGC I’m tired ,they can make stuff 100 dollars
orchid nexus
with any reasonable assurance of being correct
tawny prairie
honestly I just want a company standpoint on price reasoning - if they need this money then okay
blazing sail
If I don’t buy the swing, that doesn’t mean I don’t have FOMO. It means I didn’t let my FOMO get the better of me this time
It would still bother me if I don’t have the swing
orchid nexus
these discussions come up regularly when new one-offs are introduced and the price is high
dire rover
Tbh Alex this is what most games do. The issue is that TGC has been preachy about the way this game is designed to be a very empathic game they wouldn’t want to be predatory in their monetization of, while on the flip side do a 180 and do exactly that.
We are the 0.01% of players criticizing and talking about it on the official beta channel.
Generalizations are needed as long as they’re understood. Whale players will no doubt buy at these prices hence why they’ve set it so high
orchid nexus
Generalizations don't help if you don't understand the model or have the data to back up claims of player behavior
blazing sail
Whether I get the swing or not, I can be upset about the way it changes the whole dynamic of the game.
tawny prairie
The discussion comes up regularly yet nothing official has ever been said yet?
blazing sail
There’s years of player behavior backing it up from other games
orchid nexus
I'm not telling people not to be upset, but to be constructive and circumspect in how you criticize
blazing sail
You don’t need a degree in F2P monetization to understand what’s happening
orchid nexus
I admit to being upset by high prices of some of the items. I wonder about rationale and analytics too
but I don't have the data to make any assumptions
tawny prairie
I think more communication would be nice
We are testing their items, telling them what we think
dire rover
I don’t need the model or data of a game like sky to tell me how mobile game monetization works when I’ve sit through courses from other developers both irl and online on how the best ways to monetize a game like this is
tawny prairie
Yet everything we say could be meaningless since we can’t see their media
livid ice
Isn’t about data ,I’m not here because of me because even if the swing is 1 dollar I won’t get it ,I’m here because of the younger players that are the ones that will want it the most and will not have money to pay it
Isn’t about how many players
Is about the ones that will not get it
orchid nexus
One thing I honestly wonder: is a $20 item actually better for people with impulse-control problems? like does that pass the threshold for impulsive spending that microtransactions are so vile at exploiting?
dire rover
This is no different than clash of clans or saint seiya awakening
vapid drum
Even when counting in the fact that they developed this whole game from scratch in a period of several years @dire rover
tawny prairie
It’s better for dolphins
livid ice
Some see sum pricey not everyone can have and they’re like oh yes whatever I make 10 times that in one week
tawny prairie
But not for the whales
livid ice
Some will not care if it’s 100 dollars
That’s the problem about beta , there’s not much people here to talk about it and there’s not enough people to argue ,but believe me
The most percentage will not be happy
dire rover
That’s the precedent and insult to the players sadly, price item high, the percent of people buying at all is fairly low but the real money maker are the people who will buy anyways and setting the price higher to accommodate for those buying anyways to bring in a little more is a carefully curated work of marketing and price setting tactics well developed and researched in the mobile gaming world
livid ice
They’re basically making players get an extra pass for someone
orchid nexus
you're speaking for others. I could say the opposite and be just as wrong.
livid ice
What if they don’t want another pass
blazing sail
I thought with the move towards extra giftable passes they were trying to make it more F2P-friendly, as those with more money could support the game more and help people out
blazing sail
But then they go and add a $20-25 exclusive item
orchid nexus
it's said every time a new item hits. the same speculations. I think if TGC finds their prices not working, they'll change things
blazing sail
So I start to wonder whether they’re listening or not
livid ice
Every sky server I am in 70+ people ,non of them are happy with it isn’t only me
dire rover
You can pay for a great consultant to do research on your game and it’s economy and player base to choose what to price your items at.
Saying we can’t generalize due to no numbers is like saying TGC doesn’t track every single statistic in the game relating to ingame, “core items” and items they put in the shop
blazing sail
Again, it’s not just about whether the prices work or not
Whether they sell or not
It’s how it affects the whole dynamic of the game
Creates haves and have nots
orchid nexus
There's literally no choice but to charge money or be bankrupt
blazing sail
Creates a wider gap between paying players and non paying
No one told them to work for free
Seriously tired of repeating myself over and over
orchid nexus
Every model for getting players to pay will be criticized on the same terms
blazing sail
We’re complaining about specific monetization practices, not the fact that they’re charging money at all
vapid drum
How can there be a gap between paying players and non paying players ??? I always wear the brown cape and no one has ever said to me ‘ oh your poor I don’t wanna play with you ‘
blazing sail
And dismissing our complaints like we’re begging for the whole game to be free is insulting
dire rover
TGC also can’t monitor many complaints as a lot of active players use discord and other chats to talk about the game instead of twitter or this discord
dry pivot
is it better if they just raise the price for the seasonal passes? i don't think so but the model won't be affected that way
tired relic
isnt that the same with other exclusive items? like the bat cape or pumpkin hat?
dire rover
For me Alex, the issue is that a company with the talent of TGC is retorting to pushing out single times when they have all their creative talent. It’s insulting to pay so much for so little
blazing sail
I wanted it but couldn’t justify spending $25 on it
orchid nexus
I'm not dismissing complaints. Just reminding you to be respectful in how you criticize. I was annoyed with some prices, so I didn't buy them. That's one of the most direct ways for me to register my feelings with the company
blazing sail
I have fairly good self control when it comes to money. I’m frugal
dire rover
They could have made a swing quest and a cute walk through a new section of the forest stage
tired relic
yeah same
blazing sail
But that doesn’t mean I’m ok with it
tired relic
but i don't feel bad for not having them
orchid nexus
me too
tired relic
i barely see anyone wearing them in live
blazing sail
Not buying something only works as a protest if everyone does it
orchid nexus
I don't entirely agree
blazing sail
Sometimes you need to protest louder to get your voice heard
If TGC only cares about whether or not it sells, then I guess there’s nothing we can do if lots of people buy it
The question is whether they care about how the perception of the game and the company changes
dire rover
If they really wanted their items to sell wel and not be ridiculed by their more coherent fan base for their overpriced items they could have added more value to it by being more creative with the items.
But they keep choosing the most easy way for them and that doesn’t make me want to buy from them
vapid drum
Next time when I see someone with a swing , I’ll refuse to sit on it
brittle sparrow
blazing sail
We’re voicing our concerns assuming there still IS some interest in being different from other games. If not, I guess those of us who don’t like what Sky is turning into will eventually move on
orchid nexus
starflame, you're implicitly insulting players who disagree with you, so please be careful with how you voice your concerns
dire rover
Again we are the most minuscule voice here but if you can’t tell, most players who come by here mention that the swing and all other single piece items have been overpriced
vapid drum
Yes , it’s still a rather one sided conversation
dire rover
What? If anything I’m insulting TGC’s price tactics
orchid nexus
I don't even disagree with you that the one-offs are overpriced.
but when you say "ridiculed by the more coherent fanbase" you make it sound like I'm incoherent for not ridiculing TGC
dire rover
I’m not saying you are haha. You do give me the impression that you want more variety in the discussion though and adding I’m that we don’t have data and so shouldn’t talk about doesn’t add up
orchid nexus
respect is all i'm here to say. not to not be upset, but to say these things like you're saying them to your friends, who work hard to make something good for you
dire rover
I see what you mean, yes I can see that
orchid nexus
it's a hugely complex calculus even though it looks simple from where we sit
dire rover
I’m merely saying that a lot of players aren’t aware of a rip off when it hits them, I’m not necessarily addressing you and if you are feeling targeted maybe there’s something there to look into
That in itself isn’t an insult nor a thinly veiled one
orchid nexus
For my own part, having been here a while I believe that the company is trying hard to make decisions that support the players, support healthy habits, and encourage friendship while still making a living. I know that people in the company take this feedback to heart too
orchid nexus
And that includes when feedback is overly cutting, it can hurt to read it.
dire rover
There’s been done countless articles, papers and studies on mobile games and how easy and unregulated they allow for price gauging and gambling tendencies. It’s not impolite to say a company held in a high general standard for making beautiful games and who has said they will be wary, that they are overstepping the line with every cash shop item they put out
livid ice
200 days of grinding for F2P players
tawny prairie
honestly if the back item of the swing was more vday themed I’d be okay 
orchid nexus
Dae, that argument has sides. I'm actually ok with that price. I know that's not a popular opinion
blazing sail
Feeding off FOMO and encouraging endless grinding are not healthy habits
livid ice
Wow
Of course u been here
For a long time
U surely have more than enough hearts
It would take me half a year and 60 more days of grinding
And trading because there’s no way do receiving free hearts cuz everyone needs candles and hearts
orchid nexus
App, you're asserting some assumptions when you say they're "feeding." I think that's an unfair characterization. It's a danger, but not necessarily a reality
lunar zealot
I’m actually kinda excited for the potential 999 hearts cape. For me that’s a nice end goal. Even though it will take a long time to get.
orchid nexus
And no Dae, I don't have enough hearts. not close
vapid drum
That price isn’t settled yet is it , for the no cape
And if it is , hey , it’s free 🤣
orchid nexus
lol
dire rover
The 999 heart cape is actually really cool as an ultimate endgame item. In particular because it’s hard work unlocking it not your wallet. There are more creative ways to make money and we’re sadly not seeing TGC jump on that.
Yes making a quest with a coherent story, music and textures along with items that don’t bug out and damage other parts of the game is difficult, but that’s what a game development studio does and that’s something we pay for
blazing sail
Offering limited time items for only a few days that doesn’t give people a chance to weigh whether or not they can afford it does feed off FOMO
pallid badger
I’d say I’m a reasonably “responsible” adult. I buy candle packs quite frequently, and I bought the founder’s cape. I haven’t, however, even entertained the idea of purchasing the bat cape or pumpkin hat, or the Santa hat... and I won’t be buying the swing. Partly because yes, the price is too high for what it is, but mostly because I’ve had a good honest think about whether I’ll actually use said items more than the one or two times for novelty sake. My answer is no. I won’t use them. So no pain in not purchasing them. It’s not like someone can nose through my inventory and see what I do and don’t have. 🤷♀️
lunar zealot
Time 
blazing sail
I’m going by their actions. Actions speak louder than words.
livid ice
Players like me would be obsessed with grinding everyday for really a year lol
orchid nexus
I'm right there with you not wanting people to have unhealthy habits tho
blazing sail
I’m less bothered by things like the founders cape bc it’s not going anywhere
orchid nexus
But would you agree that a $20 item is a better deterrent against unhealthy spending than 20 $1 items?
vapid drum
I play the game everyday and receive hearts too , so if it comes in a year or 2 years , I don’t mind
blazing sail
People can decide a year down the line they want it
blazing sail
They don’t have to impulsively choose right now whether to get it or not
livid ice
And they put the pass as a pack with the swing
Just take the pack away
And is done
Most players have passes already and their friends too
Why would we need another pass
If they want another pass
They could buy it
blazing sail
These holiday items feed off FOMO. I don’t know how else you want me to put that.
orchid nexus
I'm glad there isn't a glut of $1 or lower price items. that would feel predatory
blazing sail
If they weren’t hoping for impulsive purchases, they would have them stick around a lot longer.
dire rover
Personally I’d like it if the 999 heart cape was rainbow colored or transparent, as I feel that works better for the game instead of “no cape” which for me looks incredibly odd when you’re flying around
vapid drum
I often find new friends without pass @livid ice and I gladly gift one
livid ice
Buy it separately
Lol
Is the same thing
And yeah Alex no we are aware of tgc needing money
orchid nexus
For comparison's sake: roblox sells currency that's used for purchasing cosmetics. there's an endless supply of cheap cosmetics. predatory.
livid ice
We want them to succeed and be able to make stuff they do
But
Is more fair to make it be separated
tawny prairie
I wouldn’t let my kid on that game anyways, not safe >_>
orchid nexus
yeah, that's a whole otehr topic 😄
vapid drum
In the end I hope that tgc finishes the game for android and gets a chance to focus on the game itself with introducing new areas and quests.
vapid drum
See where the effort goes into
livid ice
With a survey
They were like would I pay 15 dollars for a personal pass if it included new areas
I hope they don’t make us pay for new areas
tawny prairie
honestly if we get more quests in the future or like missions (do this, run here, etc), I’m pretty cool with how the games going
dire rover
Predatory gambling and monetization tactics are as of yet an unregulated part of gaming in most countries. With more cases of huge sums being spent by individuals and how lootboxes have been reviewed by courts around the world to be gambling for kids(and adults) it’s not a valid response in my eyes to compare Sky to other games.
Just because your friend beats up people for money doesn’t mean you should do it too
vapid drum
Oh yeah , I full hearted pressed yes on that question
blazing sail
Have the Roblox devs been outspoken about the state of mobile/F2P games?
livid ice
@vapid drum what
See u were thinking only about it personal experience that’s the issue with the game
People don’t think compelled about the other half
Completely*
vapid drum
On the survey question if you would pay more for a season pass when it comes with new areas @livid ice
blazing sail
If TGC have abandoned their vision as a company, then let us know so we can abandon ship before the game becomes just like every other F2P game.
tired relic
i didnt see that question.. that would be terrible
livid ice
Exactly
vapid drum
No it’s not , if it’s a resource they need to expand to excist
orchid nexus
Dae, I read the question as "if we can work to include new areas for all players, would the pass be worth more," not as exclusive areas
tawny prairie
I can’t even remember the survey, that feels so long ago
dire rover
The reason I state my opinions is because I like the games TGC makes and Sky has been a nice one that was filling the gap after Journey and the wonderful experience that was.
The idea of the white cape being able to be collected in the game is very much present in Sky with their constellation capes, so when I am presented with items that offer little value but simply look cool, and cost a kidney I’m more for being vocal about that
orchid nexus
even though the secret level is exclusive-ish, I don't think the season intent is for pass-holder exclusive zones. but that's only a guess
livid ice
The secret level should be open for players who have been around for 6 months lol
And have everything
tawny prairie
ahem I would like some secret area updates
dire rover
It felt very “more content > more money?” To me honestly.
tawny prairie
freshen it up a bit, add some scenery
orchid nexus
anyway, nice chatting with y'all. keep it honest, and just remember that TGC are friends, not monsters. I really do think they have the same fears we all have expressed and are working hard at these problems.
vapid drum
Yes , I never said it to be for an pass exclusive area
tawny prairie
hey if they add more dogs, they can’t do anything wrong in my eyes
livid ice
I didn’t understand it as quick at first ,I had to look for translator ,it literally asked to pay for new areas .. but well
tawny prairie
dire rover
There isn’t any ways to access areas where you have to finish eden to go to the specific area, for me that’s a big opportunity loss.
They could add “only an enlightened child of light can access this area” to give you the clue that there’s more the the game but right now there isn’t
I keep coming back to that they can be so much more creative but they just somehow choose not to be and it’s baffling
vapid drum
I’ve wanted an area that’s only accessible for 9 or 10 wedge players
orchid nexus
that's an interesting idea
tawny prairie
I was thinking the same thing
vapid drum
You can still take friends
orchid nexus
but starflame: it's not lack of creativity, it's resources. small team, big job!!!
tawny prairie
“One star only gate!”
vapid drum
And it’s a motivator for people to push forward
tired relic
yeah but then you have cosmetics, that you can only get if you finish the game with ascended candles
dire rover
It doesn’t take more manpower to decide to gatelock certain areas of the game to add a sense of progression
vapid drum
The area should only be a accessible by flying to it
radiant drum
I believe TGC has also said it’s hard to add entirely new areas because the current meaning and lore behind the ones we have now is very important, and worked on for years, so they don’t wanna throw that off
A whole new area would be a lot of work to go well with what we have
tired relic
yeah i don't think they should add a whole new map
vapid drum
No new gates 😭
radiant drum
I’d absolutely love one though, and I hope they can make it in an amazing way in the future
tired relic
just new areas to existing maps, like the new area they added in forest for the season of belonging
dire rover
That’s true Mirian, that is an aspect they want to stick to and makes it more complex to game-ify the ingame world of sky. It’s interesting, and is a good point of discusssion in terms of building games.
radiant drum
Yeah I’m hoping for more areas to the worlds we already have 
I don’t mind waiting a few months or more if we get something like the new forest cave
tired relic
hopefully they're going to expand that even more? since theres that one door that is not accessible
dire rover
That’s what stood out to me in a big way since the start and made me sad it’s a mobile release, there is a performance budget- however old games running on PS2 have been much larger than sky’s world and that’s decade old hardware. Adding grander worlds just means adding more loading zone transitions for me.
Now having it all make sense and add value to the world while presenting an appropriate amount of lore and just make sense fit together is another topic
near locust
In a game that emphasizes gratitude and giving, it seems sensible to have gift certificates for the in app store. A $10 gift certificate bundled with the swing allows the recipient to choose how to spend the money, whether it’s for candles or a cosmetic. I think gifting should be a more prominent aspect of the game in keeping with the ethos of the game’s narrative.
little saddle
I think paying 20 damn bucks for a single item that's useless in game goes very strongly against the game's narrative in the first place lol
I do understand they need to be paid for the work they do but this is seriously the wrong way
timber ridge
I won’t talk about the price because I don’t usually pay for cosmetics but I think it would be easily fixed if the things they sell were useful at least, adding new gameplay mechanics or letting you access otherwise unreachable areas.
I wouldn’t mind paying to have access to new experiences. But just to get a reskin of the table? No, thank you.
dire rover
Paying for expensive, useless items? 
Paying for access to premium areas? 
burnt finch
premium areas... that's gotta be a solid 
from me :p
kindred fossil
good one star, good one
burnt finch
speaking of entirely new areas, if TGC values the current areas for their story importance, they could just make it so the new areas open up after you've gotten the credits
that way they aren't necessarily tied to the main story of sky
open depot
burnt finch
near locust
So I’m trying to decide if my discomfort with the implied romanticism of the heart particles is a generational thing. I wish it were stars or butterflies or something so that it wouldn’t send a mixed message. There are so many miscommunications about romance in online venues. But I’m aware it might mean different things to different people and I may be in a small minority.
burnt finch
i am a bit uncomfy with the new hearts, yeah
lusty light
The whole point of sky is that every level is based on a stage of life, adding a level after eden would ruin that theme they have
quaint onyx
Wait till it gets closer to Valentine's Day, then you'll be in the heart-ing mood
lusty light
I don’t get what you mean? The credits are after eden
burnt finch
if you consider the credits to be the end of the story, anything after isn't necessarily canon, is what im saying o:
idk if that makes sense though 
arctic pecan
Hmm, you mean by as soon you get back Home from Eden, right?
burnt finch
yep!
arctic pecan
I see i see
quaint onyx
Woah woah, credits are canon now!
Like the simpsons logo, there's just these names floating out in space
arctic pecan
perhaps the only problem with adding new worlds after Eden 's credits was
where to place the gates at Home?
near locust
If I’m not the only one feeling discomfort about the hearts I may mention it in an official feedback.
lusty light
If you don’t like something about the swing you should write feedback on it regardless of what others think
near locust
Yeah ok. And I did just prove it’s not a one-off irrational reaction, anyway.
dire rover
The swing is such a boomer item
Boomer: $20 is nothing if you have a proper job
Millennials: We already bought the season pass and we work three jobs that pay under minimum wage to survive
Boomer: Lazy millennials
near locust
Home could be expanded in an outpouching leading to an entirely new home area that could lead to a completely different storyline. For the future of Sky and the creative lives of those who work on it, this sort of expansion needs to ultimately happen, preferably many times. I... actually feel compassion for the team in that they essentially feel inhibited by their past success. (And, the Eden narrative is past.) Creatively it is essential that they find a path forward to allow new narratives or else Sky will be strangled by its own history, beautiful and profound as it is. Having home space become modular so that many allegorical stories could be told would enrich the game immensely.
burnt finch
i definitely agree with you adar! sky has so much room for creating a profound story beyond what they've already written. i get that it's a story ultimately about life, but i would like to see more world-building related to sky's kingdom 
obtuse plinth
Is #beta-feedback broken for anyone else?
timber ridge
I can´t see the previous messages if that´s what you mean by it
orchid nexus
it's not broken @obtuse plinth it was changed to remove "history" access for members, to prevent commentary and reduce echo-chamber negativity.
obtuse plinth
Oh, I see
orchid nexus
Soon I'll be adding bot-run feedback so it's more clear that's intentional
lime timber
What is Beta exactly
empty river
Bot-run as in, how the bug channels work?
solar granite
@lime timber we test for bugs and feedback in the beta version of the game before changes are made in the live version
lime timber
Oh that’s firee
dire rover
It's imo a little sad they're not diving deep into the game worlds story or leaving more clues, because while the core part of that journey through "life, it's still an extreme and repeatable gameplay loop they've created, and when you go through those worlds over and over and over and over and over(add your appropriate number of days played) you get really bored of it.
While there is a empathic gameplay base and a visualized emotional storyline the lack of deeper substance just makes you yawn as a player
You don't really find many mysteries or clues spread around the levels that you can ponder and discuss. The most significant lore pieces are "what happened to eden" and "why did the world come to this", which is sort of explained.
To compare with journey the game had a much greater feeling of "there was something old here", at least for me. Maybe it's the polish that was a part of the game while Sky has been through a lot of change before landing here and it seems sort of fractured or stitched together.
Just the fact that you're meant to repeat the process to unlock all the stuff makes it so that you lose all sense of mystery and wonder about the game (world) as it sections itself off into "grind". The lack of large scale riddles, or hidden easter eggs -the easter eggs in forest don't count, makes for a mindless experience when you've repeated the game enough times, which you are required to if you want the stuff.
And because it's presented in this pseudo mmo-style, grindable gameplay the lack of anything "more" bums out the player after they figure out that the game is relatively small and closed off.
Especially for me is the fact that nothing changes once youve done eden. You got rebirthed. Great. Now do it again.
There's no real change or completion, no real reward or visual change for playing the game through. It's one of the biggest mmo curses but still is worth mentioning. The lack of a true "you're a reborn" area is gameplay wise a bummer.
- This is my own opinion of course I don't speak for others, but I feel others resonate with this a bit.
I think that's why I for one, react so strongly to the swing item.
Instead of more to do or explore, figure out in a game that's so endlessly repeatable and sorry to say- dull; it's just a good word to explain it once you're in the loop of getting items- we get more static items that serve little purpose.
It's difficult to ask "give me something to do" but imo it would bring more interest if there were something to figure out. That's what the game tells you to, something happened and you're helping. Once you try to figure out why the game stops giving answers because there isn't a system built in order to respond to it.
A good example could be a lonely child that is given toys by its divorced parents when really the thing that the child seeks is family and purpose. The few friends I've spoken with about stuff like this often respond with how experience is more valuable than "stuff". Like how a vacation with friends is way more rewarding than a new thing you just bought.
Idk, maybe I'm just rambling
Thanks for coming to my ted talk
long moon
Sorry for another ping @timber ridge ||Just wanted to start off by saying how much I appreciate the designs and concepts you bring to the community!
I have a few questions about the concept:
Do you think it would be best to make these mirrored worlds/expansions only available to players after they’ve completed Eden at least once? Perhaps a cinematic cutscene that pops up after a player’s first rebirth telling them there is more to explore?
You mentioned “div[ing] deeper and deeper into the ocean” I assume this would basically introduce a new playing mode to the game? Where the controls would allow you to sink as opposed to fly?
Some of your mirrored levels look like they would be hard to navigate (if the lighting in wasteland tells us anything) Do you think having a light orb (perhaps gifted after one’s first rebirth or added as a purchasable cosmetic) would help?||
||Your idea of a mirrored realms is one I would love to see happen even if the company does end up deciding to expand beyond the existing levels (I still would like to see a four seasons island as that does also reflect the theme of life in another way)||
Atlantean got me excited for this other direction lore could be going
finite pumice
@dire rover agree so much. The game had great depth and potential in the early day of beta. It has become a grind to collect stuff and trigger the fomo response in players. There used to be more hints if story. The new spirits that “visit” have no real connection to the history of the world and don’t really make any sense most of the time. Yes they look cute and have neat musical instruments and so on but they have no meaning. They are just artificial constructs there to deliver a reason to spend money. All that said the devs have done a masterful job of creating all this; it just lacks any substance or depth of story.
timber ridge
Maybe no new gameplay mode would be needed, I haven´t thought of it in depth. Maybe it is hard to go down at some point and you´re pushed back up? Or just fly in the water normally?
Plot twist @dire rover After 1000 reruns, you wake up to discover you´re a worker in a nuclear plant and you´re trying to prevent the core from melting. The whole game world is the result of your hallucinations caused by radiation. Tadaaaaaaa!
pulsar edge
Maybe we rethink the mirror. Maybe the mirror of isle is oasis, the mirror of prairie is desert, the mirror of forest is woodlands and so on
long moon
Oof, I don’t know why, but just imagining forcing myself deeper into the depths of water makes me anxious. I’ve thought about the other idea about “flying” in the water, and it makes the most sense to make navigation easier - and to keep the theme of flying that makes Sky what it is
I would love to see an updated suggestion in the future should you choose to expand the concept, Atlantean!
Off to work, see you all later! 
dire rover
I feel mirroring levels is a very low bar of making things interesting. With they way they've made the game it won't be happening either tbh
Works well for racing games tho
long moon
Randomly thinking of dark and spooky forest now @@ oo, but great place to put in new darkness creatures! Like dark owls etc
pulsar edge
Mirroring in theme, not in content @dire rover
dire rover
Oh like that
long moon
^ also would mean 6 “new” areas to explore! ❤️
pulsar edge
Brand new content
timber ridge
Yeah, that´s it, not putting them upside down, just the overall layout maybe.
dire rover
I think theyve spent too much time perfecting what they feel is the perfect gameplay loop though
pulsar edge
No I think they’ve spent too much time making seasonal content while not pushing forward the main narrative
timber ridge
I know, I know, my goal was to generate discussion, which I think is always interesting, particularly for the dev team to look at.
pulsar edge
Hopefully they’re spending the time they would’ve spent on this season on making non-seasonal content
Since most of this season isn’t new
dire rover
That's what I feel as well, the main narrative has been set in stone it seems and what we're served is what we get
pulsar edge
Hopefully that changes
long comet
If anything what if there were multiple islands in home?
so different islands has some diff places to go to
pulsar edge
@long comet being planned
long comet
ah whoops sorry
pulsar edge
Aviary will come back
timber ridge
I bet there will be a new level just at the beginning, behind us, on a new island or something
pulsar edge
It’s just a lot of work so it may take quite a bit of time and resources
This game has a lot of potential
But a lot of limitations
long comet
^^ thats true
timber ridge
Or an island accessible only by crossing the sea of solitude.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyGame/comments/dbcjfy/an_old_concept_i_never_fully_developped_the_sea/
pulsar edge
Oh I remember that one
long comet
ooo yeah i saw that once :o its an interesting idea
pulsar edge
All your concepts are so well drawn, atlan
My favorite is the sky home you made
Cause we got to see a reflection of you in it
dire rover
Personally I don't believe it. They've mentioned how they will expand on the game with the seasons but it's been a few now and while they added a few more areas, there is a lack of things to explore and interact with in them, no real feeling of substance or new/continued lore to be revealed.
Considering that and then feeling like the next season(s) will bring an entirely new area every few months.. I just can't say I'm hopeful
But the game is cool for what it is, it's very pretty.
I say atlantean's painting, it's great. That's something I would consider paying $30 to play.
Now that they're set the tone, the game engine seems to work on iOS and Android fairly well and they're polishing the android version for global release..
Maybe?
I mean they should be releasing up a lot of manpower to make actual content and not just hotfix their shader engines
timber ridge
I think there might be an expansion after this longer season, but I have no insider info so who knows.
I don´t want to add more pressure to the dev team though. I just thought it´s an indea that could be implemented by segments, starting with the connections to the upper levels.
The mirrored world could also be smaller. It doesn´t need to fully mirror every upper level.
Just ideas, anyway.
stoic badger
@radiant drum Sorry for jumping into this discussion late, but I think this is actually a core problem with the game - MMOs need to live with their players and they’ve painted themselves a design corner where all the levels have to conform to a very narrow set of expectations and provide a very narrow tunnel of an experience. It makes for a game that doesn’t offer much when repeated over a short period of time.
It’s a problem highlighted by the end of Wasteland where the camera pans to the krill that loom over you. First time - spooky, catches you off guard, nice moment. 100th time - Im just going to escape between the bars to skip the cutscene because this moment no longer offers anything. A lot of the game is built on moments like this that don’t hold up to repeated play.
It kind of reminds me when they said they initially made sure the character had warm colours and everything else had to have cool colors - it’s kind of a bizarre artistic restriction that causes so many problems for them down the line when you’re trying to build a living game that has to change and evolve with the people playing and experiencing it.
This kind of focus on specific set-pieces and experiences works for Journey but I don’t think they’ve grown out of that mindset. Journey works because it’s a movie you return to every year or more, so the set-pieces and linearity still has a sheen to it but this game demands daily play and their world design isn’t equipped to deal with that, they’re still designing as if every addition has to be a set-piece rather than a living place in a world. It all feels so... static.
timber ridge
Couldn´t agree more. 
dire rover
The gate skip I get frustrated when the skip doesn't hit first time or when I actually happen to server merge with someone who triggers the podium.
It's such mindless chore to collect candles that I'll literally put down the game just because of unneccesary stuff like that
stoic badger
When you play the game repeatedly it becomes a travelling/speed-run game, its about how you can skip cutscenes or optimize movement. Im sure this isn’t what they had in mind for their artistic vision but it’s whats happened....
What you expect isn’t necessarily what you get when people play your game
timber ridge
While I keep suggesting stuff, Im totally resigned at this point and do my dailies like a robot. I would love to get a camera toggle thoug so the chores are les painful to do.
stoic badger
I still have a bunch of notes for a lil essay I plan on writing just for my own interest, I dont expect any major changes in a while (maybe if ever) partly due to the production hell they find themselves in with the Android version, partly because of their design philosophy and if there’s any room for change.
vapid briar
We're working on this stuff but it takes time and engineering work to bring it to life and ensure it doesn't break the game in the process before presenting it to players to test, let alone push to Live.
stoic badger
Mhmm, I totally understand.
It can be frustrating when you or others see these things and want X, Y and Z and you dont see much movement from the game, but I do sympathize X)
vapid briar
It's a bizarre predicament because we're a small indie company working under AAA expectations without AAA resources. >_<
stoic badger
Yeah, I assumed most resources are currently being spent making sure the Android version works as thats taken a lot longer than expected :C
timber ridge
Yeah, don´t worry Ktjn. I´m just tired today. We all want the best game because we love the company and the games you make. Keep up the good work as usual ^^
vapid briar
Even growing the team takes many months to get folks onboarded and up to speed, which takes away from existing team members' ability to crank out content. It's a natural part of the process, but it does temporarily slow things down before ramping back up.
burnt finch
you guys do a great job at TGC ktjn, i think our criticism in this server is mostly because we care about this game's future
not all of it is feasible obviously
spark lance
@vapid briar Can TGC not implement some of the levels from light awaits into live? Struggling to find the video, but before home there was the beginning area where you had to light yourself and then take boats to isle or something
vapid briar
It also part of the long term goal with longer seasons, so we can be more ambitious with every major content update. We absolutely want to add new features, new areas, grow the story of the game, etc. I don't want to come off as making excuses, but more explain the situation and all we can hope is that we maintain your trust.
burnt finch
its not excuses! honestly, i think some people here would sound less frustrated if we knew why TGC isnt doing x, y, z
vapid briar
That content was removed from the game for various reasons, it doesn't exist anymore. We want to take the good bits from that content and bring it back better than ever, but again it takes time and careful planning.
lusty light
@spark lance that level was isle. Limited live has had every level changed and expanded, if you played old beta you would be disappointed as to how small the game was compared to now
tawny prairie
yes yes more communication I’m sure would ease people
burnt finch
i'd love to be able to ride some boats again 
stoic badger
@vapid briar You explain the situation well and to the best of your ability, I appreciate your frankness ^-^. I hope we here more information and details about the longer-term plan soon.
spark lance
I see. Figured it was archived or something like that if TGC ever decided to bring it back and expand upon it 😕
vapid briar
The files exist, but we've done so much under-the-hood work that we wouldn't be able to add those back at the push of a button. It would need a complete overhaul.
spark lance
makes sense. thanks for expanding
burnt finch
@vapid briar i definitely think we would benefit from some sort of beta channel that addresses some common complaints about the current build and what TGC's plan is in addressing said complaints, so we at least know we're being heard
even if the answer is something like "we dont have the resources to do this cool thing right now" or w/e
anything is better than silence, is what im saying 
tawny prairie
though I don’t think we’d ever stop people from asking about personal homes or pets hahaha
stoic badger
@tawny prairie Absolutely not <w<
vapid briar
Usually the answer to 'Why doesn't XYZ exist?" is something to the effect of: It takes a whole lot more work than you think it does to make happen.
Which would be incredibly exhausting for y'all to hear if that's what i responded with. >_>
burnt finch
fair enough :p
tawny prairie
I’m more curious about answers on price decisions and such, data, etc
burnt finch
thats more what people get frustrated about
stoic badger
I dont know if thats useful more than contentions things like the swing
dire rover
I'm about to log off for the night but just want to add that I like the avatar Ktjn
vapid briar
There are always answers to those questions, I'm not always at liberty to go into explicit detail.
burnt finch
thats what i figured
timber ridge
I´m actually not that mad with the way they are handling stuff. I totally understand the mess and delays the Android release must be causing.
vapid briar
haha, thank Pines for the new pfp, I was giggling about the many hats last night and she blessed the white board next to my desk with that doodle
stoic badger
Aw <3
timber ridge
lol
burnt finch
anything financial is probably under tighter wraps, which i understand. it's just that, if some people aren't really given an explanation for in-game prices, they're going to assume TGC is just greedy
spark lance
Yeah, there’s def been a lot of complaints about the swing price if it doesn’t include candles. I understand that Sky having a F2P model means there has to be a way to bring in revenue, but some items are questionable.
burnt finch
this is hopefully not the case, as i know you guys really care about us! but people can, uh, catastrophize
vapid briar
It is always very interesting to read the conversation going on about pricing to see how far off it tends to be from the reality of the situation.
burnt finch
if you guys arent meeting financial quotas or something i'd gladly donate to a patreon if TGC made one 
obvs you cant share that info, im just giving a suggestion :p
timber ridge
Yeah, that would be nice to know. I don´t usually complain about prices. At most, some of them might concern me regarding the reality of the situation. At the same time, I can´t compare because I don´t usually play F2P games.
stoic badger
I normally dont play F2P games because of the manipulations built into the game to drive sales. The only two F2P games i have on my iPad are Sky and Gwent X)
timber ridge
I think Ktjn had to finish sewing the 100th krill plushie so they could launch the store asap.
spark lance
😂
tawny prairie
Well from a communication major standpoint, the discussion lately has been veryyy interesting lol
I have many many games download on my iPhone, this is the only game that doesn’t have tho micro purchases
But it is the only game that has single items priced at amounts ive seen for packs in other f2p’s
ie ; 2k gold, 1k diamond , 50 energy like things
spark lance
I’d say Sky does a very good job of allowing players to play the game without paywalls, such as energy.
A large majority of the content is accessible without IAP. Then if you want seasonal items, then get the season pass if you want to unlock everything.
stoic badger
Theres other games with high-priced single items, they just aren’t the things you’ll see when you first play - thats the stuff they sell you later when you’re hooked <w<
tawny prairie
yes which I think sky has going for them, no energy walls
I haven’t seen many f2p games that have single games with a set price?
stoic badger
Energy waits are probably the single worst F2P idea
tawny prairie
curious if I have an example haha
burnt finch
this game is definitely inspired by fortnite's financial system, thats also on mobile i think
just with a lot more shop items
stoic badger
@tawny prairie I heard of one game that had a weird end-game $50 purchase that they kind of jumped on people, but I can’t remember the specific example
tawny prairie
honestly couldn’t tell you what game that is either
and I have downloaded some very expensive f2p games (cocoppa, line play, miracle nikki, etc)
so it’s interesting comparing sky to those
timber ridge
Welcome Lisa, I know you´re there.
stoic badger
@burnt finch Season passes are one of the better F2P ideas, although as their worst they make the game feel like work or a commitment for you in order to “”maximize the value”” of it. At their best they augment a good experience into a better one.
blazing sail
The difference with fortnite is that the gameplay loop works as something to be played over and over (if you like hunting down other players which I don’t)
tawny prairie
Honestly even if they have 20$ items in sky, it’s still like a 9.9/10 for me
blazing sail
With Sky, the cosmetics are the main attraction once you play through the game a few times and upgrade your wing power to the max. The cosmetics become the game.
vapid briar
This is a new type of game for the studio and we're still exploring what works for Sky and its players. We are always grateful for your feedback if/when we miss the mark, but we don't do these things with any kind of malicious or nefarious intent. We're human and try to make informed decisions and sometimes the data doesn't tell the whole story.
tawny prairie
it’s an a free open world on your phone, that has no toxic community found (easily) in game
stoic badger
While I might assume malice/cynicism with other game publishers, I definitely don’t with TGC :)
tawny prairie
(Aka i sure you could find a mean troll somewhere but ehh)
yes, other companies I could be like
“Oh they want me to spend my gold now! So for the next event I’ll have to buy some since my savings are gone”
spark lance
Considering Sky has a season pass and earns revenue through that, along with candle packages, that’s the only reason why I think the store items shouldn’t be priced as high. Though I don’t know TGC’s financial situation, so it’s possible the higher priced items are necessary. Referring to things like the swing set, mask/cape bundle. At most $15 without candles.
tawny prairie
sky doesn’t really have those issues
blazing sail
There doesn’t have to be malice behind the decisions for the decisions to have unwanted side effects.
stoic badger
Of course
@tawny prairie Sky gets a lot right in their monetization, but id also argue they’re working in a market where the bar has been set so low by a lot of successful, bad players. Sky still deserves critical discussion like any other game.
burnt finch
i'm never going to give my full, blind trust to a company. however, that being said, TGC has had a good track record so far and i hope it stays that way
tawny prairie
Never said I wouldn’t criticize but with what games I have played, I think they are doing well haha
stoic badger
^-^
lusty light
Ktjn didn’t say that the decisions they make aren’t going to upset people, just that don’t assume that tgc is doing this exploit people
tawny prairie
Like I’m still not happy with the look of the back item for the swing (way to close in colouring to the cape and doesn’t really read “swing seat”)
stoic badger
It’s a difficult item to visualize on someone’s back admittedly
tawny prairie
But I left that in my feedback and I’ll guess we’ll wait and see haha
I honestly still think it’s paper
stoic badger
They have to make a visual thats punchy and simple
burnt finch
i trying to think of what it could look like instead
tawny prairie
I said a red/pink/white/whatever envelope
timber ridge
Well, I don´t have any other swings attached to backs to compare so...
tawny prairie
since it’s vday
lusty light
I thought it was an envelope too until I used it and went Ohhhh
tawny prairie
With a red heart as the sticker to close said envelope
I think that would read love haha
blazing sail
If the decisions they’re making are creating the same kind of environment they hate so much in other F2P games, then they should take stock of that, even if that wasn’t their intention.
spark lance
@vapid briar Are you at liberty to discuss if TGC intends to actually expand upon the in-game lore? If not a journal or something we can read after completing levels and finding spirits, maybe just something simple like a lore page on the website we can read? Maybe respond in the lore channel if better to discuss there.
blazing sail
Or maybe especially if that wasn’t their intention.
stoic badger
@vapid briar You know, itd be cool if a data analyst was on a future stream and could talk about how that works, the interesting things that are observed, and the expectation vs reality of things.
timber ridge
Let her finish sewing the krill plushie.
stoic badger
timber ridge
My krill plushie, btw.
lusty light
I wouldn’t say having an item that’s expensive makes sky have the same environment as other f2p games because owning a swing does nothing but give you a swing
You’re not put at an advantage over others
Unlike other games where they want you to buy expensive packages to directly be better than others
burnt finch
when cosmetics are the gameplay, having cooler cosmetics is, in a way, an advantage
blazing sail
It still takes away from the overall message of the game.
spark lance
I think the main reason I will buy the swing is because it does have 1 advantage. It’s a reusable 2 player only bench. Sometimes I’m trying to just interact with one new person and tables allow multiple people to sit
blazing sail
It might not change the dynamic as drastically as selling some krill-killing sword, but it does change it.
timber ridge
Oh, I hadn´t seen that advantage
blazing sail
(Oh no I shouldn’t give them ideas)
burnt finch
lol
stoic badger
@lusty light Most games use cosmetics and it’s still bad social manipulation - theres plenty of talks by bad games business people about how powerful cosmetics are in changing the social fabric of a game and of how you use them to to create the expectation that paying is the way to play.
This isn’t a particularly holistic way of looking at it.
burnt finch
i'd definitely say cosmetics act as this game's rank system, which is obviously unintended but it happens anyway
stoic badger
Oh absolutely
burnt finch
the cooler you look, the better a player you are
timber ridge
I might be getting too old to care at all about those things. I just see newbies and people wearing randomly combined stuff.
burnt finch
im sure many people do think of it as a way to rank people anyways
timber ridge
I might have thought like that when I was a newbie, but I never associated it to them being better, but them having played more than me.
I guess it depends on how much importance you give to polygons on a screen.
burnt finch
obviously in this game all cooler cosmetics mean is that they've been around longer, but to some its a status thing
sand dawn
New players now though.. go from moth to full winter/rhythm gear.. look instantly super cool...
stoic badger
My brain sometimes thinks about wearing the beta cape because to some people it has social status, it works in real life very effectively so why wouldn’t it in a social online game,.
rustic imp
Omg ktjn love the pfp
vapid briar
Apologies if I'm slow to reply from time to time, I absolutely love coming in chatting with y'all (which is why you'll catch me in here late at night, off the clock) but sometimes I do have to abruptly dash off and put on a different hat, thankfully none of those hats are sewing krill plushies though I desperately wish those were a thing that existed, haha.
timber ridge
I will keep imagining you typing with one hand while sewing with the other lol
burnt finch
no worries ktjn 
blazing sail
Just thinking....
What if they offered a staff for $100 or so that controls the weather? Like could create an ice rink anywhere. Not saying that’s actually doable. But would offering that only for a few days for $100 create an imbalance or would you still see that as “optional item, not P2W so perfectly fine”?
burnt finch
definitely would cause controversy
blazing sail
I’m just trying to see where people draw the line
Because a swing set might not be p2w but it’s still a special item that does something unique and is only going to be available for a few days at a fairly steep price.
stoic badger
I dont have any juice for this conversation atm, ive said my piece X)
burnt finch
blazing sail
So even if you don’t want it or don’t think it’s worth $20, you must acknowledge there’s going to be a lot of jealousy from people who don’t get it?
burnt finch
the envy would be enormous :p
lusty light
But that isn’t the same because that’s an item that directly changes the game?
blazing sail
And that’s what I mean about changing the dynamic
timber ridge
I wouldn´t mind if someone paid $100 for a krill multiplying potion if all of us can suffer/ enjoy the result. It would bring change and a surprise element to the game.
lusty light
The swing doesn’t do anything to the game itself but be a swing
stoic badger
LOL
burnt finch
@timber ridge how long until trolls use that to grief people 
blazing sail
The staff I’m talking about wouldn’t be a permanent change either
timber ridge
Yeah, I can see that.
blazing sail
Just a temporary skating rink till you move it or leave
You have control over that skating rink. No one else
stoic badger
Metaphors like this tend to be a bad idea for a conversation like this IMO, they arent comparable directly
timber ridge
with enough cooldown it could work.
blazing sail
Or at least, only@people with that staff do
I mean, a staff like that would be awesome
burnt finch
with enough wide-open spaces it'd work
blazing sail
I doubt it would ever happen, but if it did and was offered for $100 I’d be crushed and probably just quit the game for good
Bc I don’t need a game making me feel like I have to empty my pockets on a regular basis to get the most out of it
timber ridge
Even without access to the swing, I will always enjoy the sculptures people create with it.
burnt finch
i thought they removed the swing's ability to stack? 
blazing sail
Did they?
timber ridge
Oh, that´s sad. Then I want a chainsaw to get rid of the swings.
A lawnmover to run after skykids would be welcome as well.
timber ridge
I was totally thinking about that scene lmao
vapid briar
Balancing social dynamics is a lot different than balancing power dynamics.
Especially in a free to play game.
And while your thought process and feelings on those being one and the same are valid, that's not how everyone views them, and we have to take more than one or twenty players' views into consideration.
tawny prairie
so that means no corgi related content 😭
full sarcasm
other than the secret area
vapid briar
Which is why we hammer in that we want to know how you as individuals feel versus people who try to speak "for the playerbase as a whole" because it's literally impossible for one person to speak for everyone.
spark lance
Isn’t that what polls are for?
tawny prairie
tiny chibi - loud voice 
vapid briar
Even polls are skewed because it assumes a certain level of engagement to even reach players.
stoic badger
mmm
tawny prairie
this is very hard to read while balancing a safe ahahaha
spark lance
What about the surveys in game that offer a candle?
Everyone who’s active is seeing that at least
tawny prairie
but thank you ktjnii for all the talking
Answers?
ehh I can’t english right now
blazing sail
@tawny prairie I’m picturing you balancing a heavy safe on your head. Is that what you were going for?
vapid briar
For example, even just within this server of 27k people the weekly polls we do for fun only get maybe 10% response.
tawny prairie
vapid briar
My pleasure, corgi
blazing sail
Where did this safe come from?
blazing sail
Ahhh
burnt finch
@vapid briar these polls are being taken into consideration though, right? im assuming yes but just to make sure
spark lance
@vapid briar The response rate isn’t better when pushed through Sky surveys?
livid ice
I think it would be better if they kept going in game surveys
tawny prairie
I’m sure it doesn’t factor in the people who close the survey by mistake
or maybe they do
livid ice
Im game surveys are such a nice idea
Maybe even polls in game also
And they earn 1-2 candles everyone would do them
tawny prairie
I’m sure it’s a small percent that close by mistake vs the people who say no
vapid briar
the in-game survey is useful, but it requires a certain level of progression before seeing the survey, and willingness to answer it. Data and statistics is useful and fascinating but there is always a certain kind of bias when you do that kind of data sampling.
spark lance
Ah
burnt finch
omg, imagine a little sign post in the home area, you click on it and it brings up a poll
livid ice
I mean everyone would take a small survey for one candle
I think?
It takes 6 seconds
Lol
tawny prairie
data results are fun though 
especially after you put it into a slideshow and you can compare
livid ice
I love doing surveys even if I don’t get something in exchange because I know what I’m doing is being taken into consideration
tawny prairie
yup I love answering questions
livid ice
Same
vapid briar
We absolutely use data, but again, it only paints a certain picture.
spark lance
Yes Dae, but I think Ktjn is saying it’s unreliable due to bias and progression
livid ice
Yeah
tawny prairie
yup can’t rely on it so much ):
blazing sail
Thing is... you don’t need to hear from everyone to see that moves like this change the nature of the game?
livid ice
How would y’all make it then? Is there a way ? To reach everyone and every point of view?
burnt finch
there is no way for us to see everyone's opinion, no matter what they do
livid ice
Well of course
orchid nexus
There already are in-game surveys that offer a candle as payment, in case that wasn't clear
vapid briar
It's impossible, honestly. which is why you have to take multiple samples and compare. Make changes, see if things improve, adjust, test again, and so on.
rain token
The in game surveys are too vague and don’t give scope for response
tawny prairie
I think one after eden would be interesting
livid ice
I mean ,the players who are more into the game like the bigger amount would answer if y’all ask ? I’m guessing
burnt finch
i think there is one after eden?
livid ice
Yeah
tawny prairie
You also have to consider your demographic very much when doing one
I didn’t mean the heart one haha
stoic badger
@livid ice Not everyone is going to be willing to answer though, not interested, too busy, etc.
vapid briar
For example, how often do you stop to fill out an app store review on something you download? Or do you dismiss that popup?
tawny prairie
depends on the game
livid ice
There has to be some type of way to reaching more players opinions
near locust
Oh noes! I just checked. The swing is no longer stackable. That was one of the best aspects of it! 
tawny prairie
Though I think App Store reviews get removed after so long?
blazing sail
I mean, you don’t need to hear from all players to see that offering limited time items for cash only changes the game dramatically from what it was when it first started, where the only things that were available for cash could be gifted by generous friends.
tawny prairie
either after updates or something
spark lance
I generally fill out reviews after I’ve played the game long enough to be able to review it properly
rain token
The biggest issue I see is boredom from long term players and no amount of random cosmetics is gonna fix that. For me over priced items and no real expansion or things to do will lead to more player drop off or the game needing a regular supply of short term players
stoic badger
@livid ice They do have data analysts and people looking at stats of people playing the game, but there’s no one big picture
vapid briar
Less than you might think, App.
livid ice
@stoic badger i understand that I’m saying there has to be another way of reaching the bigger picture
:”/
spark lance
^
tawny prairie
But it won’t be 100%
livid ice
Whats the percentage of amount of players y’all would take more into consideration
More than 60% ?
70%?
stoic badger
@livid ice You make educated guesses by analysing them all
If there was they’d be doing it
tawny prairie
I wish I had my text books in my office
vapid briar
Let's talk about funneling, since I know that was talked about at the Gnomon presentation. Some of the terrain changes to Daylight Prairie were to guide new players to that first temple. People were getting lost or discouraged and stop playing the game and never pick it back up.
livid ice
Some people said they hated it
But now is more clear
I do like it
Is more organized
tawny prairie
I did encounter many moths confused before
livid ice
Right
tawny prairie
Without the walls, it does look more straight
Have the star at the end of the meadow helps
burnt finch
@vapid briar i know of some people that get lost and frustrated in the forest area
livid ice
Forest is huge though
tawny prairie
I found a moth unlit in the water under that star in the wall
livid ice
I mean anyways when u beep the game tells u where to go
tawny prairie
confused what direction to go
yes it does
But I think people get confused and think that’s a kid at first
rustic imp
It was very clear to me the first time through
burnt finch
its more like, people get frustrated about constantly losing light in forest when they only have two stars on their cape
rustic imp
No major mishaps and wrong turns. Just me going everywhere
blazing sail
I got hopelessly lost in the clouds at the end of Valley in beta and quit there
livid ice
:”0
stoic badger
Everyone has different levels of game literacy and everyone has different ways they like to play or that their brain approaches games though
desert badger
I think especially because the game attracts folks who dont play a lot of games, if they dont have that sort of "game logic" that allows them to guess how the maps going to go, that can be a struggle
blazing sail
Which was probably good bc if I saw the krill in beta I probably would have rage quit even harder
burnt finch
exactly takanu. a good friend of mine struggled with the controls so much that they stopped playing before finishing prairie
rustic imp
I remember approaching the gate to birds nest and trying a couple times then going oh well. ill be back
rain token
I liked the challenge of figuring stuff out and not being treated like an idiot and discovering things that I needed to remember and come back for
burnt finch
my mom tried playing it too, and she couldn't even manage to walk to the first gate in home i think thats a generational issue though, not one with the game
rain token
I spent ages getting up to the cave ledge over the water islands only to discover I couldn’t get in. It drive me nuts at the time but made to continue to find out what was up there
desert badger
Like I play a ton of games, and at this point have the knowledge of conventions to be like "thats something valuable, theres a secret here, thats dangerous" but I remember watching a friend play journey and like. Needing to explain stuff
lusty light
When I was a newbie I got lost in wasteland, and that was before they had the call to show you the way feature
desert badger
I think a good mix between clarity and secrets is nice
lusty light
I had to go online and ask for help on how to progress
desert badger
Yeah the call is a good feature!
stoic badger
@burnt finch It can be both though, especially if like Sky you want a broad audience to enjoy it, and have families playing together
desert badger
Theyve really polished it up
vapid briar
Personal anecdote about forest, i was completely ready to quit the game for good because of that experience, prior to working here of course. My poor mechanical skills with flight and trying to land on those jellies before running out of light and hemorrhaging stars was incredibly frustrating. Since then we've made it so you can turn off the rain when you raise the full bridge and that experience is a lot better for so many new players.
burnt finch
mobile games often attract people who dont normally play games, so some concepts that are simple to us can be confounding to others
rustic imp
I was so worried about that part ktjn
vapid briar
These days (and thanks to the umbrella) it's easily my favourite zone.
rustic imp
The first few times I did the jelly fish I was think don’t fall off don’t fall off
blazing sail
@vapid briar I despised the jellyfish jump, too. Something about the perspective made it hard for me to gauge exactly where they were in relation to me and I kept missing. Finally gave up and just hitched a ride with someone else, I think. Glad they shut the rain since.
desert badger
Mhm! I dunno if this is just me but did it use to feel darker lit to yall? It feels easier to see in now
burnt finch
@vapid briar there needs to be a non-seasonal umbrella. most players dont own it
livid ice
The spirit is coming back ... one day
burnt finch
or, possibly some sort of temporary umbrella for forest? like a bin, and you can "rent" one for a candle or two
livid ice
It was supposedly next week but they changed plans
desert badger
And im snatching it up then!
livid ice
There’s other one👀
desert badger
Oh thats a cute idea creation!
Something maybe like the cannon in the office, maybe spend a candle and it eventually fizzles out?
blazing sail
Forest is my favorite place now that I can’t die from a couple of rain drops
rustic imp
gets a cardboard box to protect from rain. Crawls with it over head
blazing sail
But man was I miserable my first time
vapid briar
I was having some irritation with jumping puzzles in another of my favourite games and running into it in Sky was just a cascade of failure in my mind, haha. Most of us play games for fun, not frustration. Though a modicum of difficulty is good because once you overcome it, it makes you feel powerful.
rain token
Is there any indication of when there might be new areas/lands or at least mini games?
blazing sail
I was like...prairie was so relaxing. Why am I now being destroyed by rain?
desert badger
I think theyre prob tied up by android dev huh?
rain token
The learning curve gets rather extreme with forest, eases off with valley then turns into hell with wasteland, as a newbie
blazing sail
I’m not a fan of first-person platforming in general, so when I saw those jellyfish + the consequences for messing up...miserable.
timber ridge
Totally. You enter the forest looking forward to discover its secrets then you experience the rain and... well, crap.
desert badger
Yeah its a lil rough! I love it now but i got so turned around at first
burnt finch
i know it's supposed to mark the difficulties of teenage years and midlife crises, but the difficulty curve is a bit odd
timber ridge
Yeah, also because you fell in the middle of that gigantic pond with no cover at all.
exotic atlas
I thought forest was the most terrifying thing in game when I got there
vapid briar
Android dev is of course a focus, but we still have to simultaneously work on new content.
rain token
The learning curve is far from incremental
vapid briar
Y'all know I can't dish out spoilers 😛
lusty light
I thought forest was pretty but I thought I didn’t know how to fly because back then the rain crippled your air movement
blazing sail
I think they also added some assistance in the forest since I first played? I had trouble even jumping over gaps to follow spirits and now the wind just carries you with just one wing power
desert badger
Do you remember the lights on the wall at the beginning, i wonder if even having some of those on the trees might help differentiate
Yeah that too!
rain token
Making earlier levels easier just makes the tough levels even harder. I’m constantly rescuing newbies who are trying to race through the game with not enough wings or skill
desert badger
My first time i got so confused by the trees and where i was
stoic badger
@vapid briar shakes a pouch full of candles
👀
burnt finch
i need to hang out in forest more with my umbrella, honestly
desert badger
But its def a lot clearer now
I kinda wish i could reset my memory and reapproach it lol
burnt finch
@vapid briar speaking of funneling, by the way, a lot of players are confused about having to die in eden
thats always been the case, but i'm not really sure how to make it any clearer
stoic badger
I feel like the worst part of it is the looping bugs, i cant remember a time where I have completed it without bugs
vapid briar
spoilers, yo 😛
stoic badger
gets a second bag of candles
👀 👀 👀
Oh you’re talking about Eden, ha ha ha.
puts candles away
burnt finch
youve said too much ktjn
blazing sail
Takanu are you trying to bribe her with candles? Or are you planning to snack on them like popcorn?
gilded tree
mmm popcorn
stoic badger
I think candles would make for pretty bad popcorn
burnt finch
too waxy
stoic badger
Unless sky kids have really warm teeth,... oh wait they dont have teeth. Or mouths.
rustic imp
Well sky kids would probably love ‘em
burnt finch
you just gotta add some salt
blazing sail
I mean, sky kids probably eat them
rustic imp
They love wax already
stoic badger
Sky kids are definitely anthropomorphic plants
timber ridge
Weren' t they actual candles?
stoic badger
N O .
vapid briar
Speaking of Eden though, the lighting in there should be a little better now 
stoic badger
Oh neat, i can never tell if that place gets updated or not.
timber ridge
Regarding the lighting, my most dreaded place was the room on the left after the first krill. Thankfully it was fixed at some point lol
stoic badger
The wiiiind tunnel
spark lance
That will be nice. Have to crank my phone to max brightness to see in Eden well.
lusty light
Did you guys miss reikas 100% true lore
burnt finch
ktjn doesnt this mean the krill will see us better now too though 
lusty light
Sky kids have mouths in their chest
The mouth doesn’t have teeth but it has two tongues
gilded tree
Also, slykids hatch from eggs
stoic badger
oh no
burnt finch
whats a slykid ash?
stoic badger
vapid briar
If you ever read our 1 star reviews, many, many folks take issue with Eden 
burnt finch
timber ridge
Oh, thanks for the nightmares, @lusty light
burnt finch
ive seen them oh god
gilded tree
oh no secret tgc content..i meant SKYKID
lusty light
Don’t thank me thank reika
vapid briar
Ash coming in causing chaos again
gilded tree
you heard nothing about slykids....
stoic badger
The top review on the UK store is someone saying the game is amazing... followed by them talking about being stuck at Eden and spoiling the whole thing :D
burnt finch
i think the best 1 star review i saw for sky was something like "that black monster thing is nasty. remove it"
exotic atlas
that review is so funny
blazing sail
I mean it is pretty awful losing all your wings 😛
stoic badger
The last time i went I held a moths hand the entire time to direct them through... but the loop bug happened so it was all for nought
blazing sail
Loop bug?
spark lance
Eden was too dark before and almost unplayable, I remember around June 2019 in beta, it’s easy now
stoic badger
@blazing sail ||when you finally die but the game spawns you back in the middle, before you enter the infinite rock field||
blazing sail
Ahhh yes that happens like all the time
Not that I go to Eden that often these days 😬
stoic badger
stares at his 267 Ascended Candles
spark lance
There really should be a tip at least or something like when you honk telling new ppl where to go in eden (red diamond). Never fails when I go with a new person they’re just standing behind a rock refusing to die while you hover there as a blue spirit waiting
blazing sail
But I did do twice in beta and once in live all within 8 days and that was.....quite enough
I just wanted those wing buffs in beta
The traveling ones
stoic badger
@spark lance They tried adding a camera-pan at the beginning to direct people to the kids but I assume that was too subtle
spark lance
yeah. I think ppl don’t understand giving the spirits wings and ultimately dying. I know I didn’t in my first play through
timber ridge
A krill coming from behind would surely make them move forward. Add a krill to the end portion of Eden ^^
stoic badger
I think thats another case of a difference in people’s game literacy
lusty light
I remember when they first added that eden feature
I gave my stars to the statues and I was like hello I’m dying and I did not get a very big reward at the end
The second time I gave one to every statue and then I understood
spark lance
@stoic badger you spend all the levels collecting wings and in pretty much all games the objective is surviving. I think that’s why ppl get confused. at least the majority.
stoic badger
For sure, but I think people experienced with games also understand when developers try to subvert those expectations or when they hint at what the current state of the game is
gilded tree
You and your love of Krill, Atlantean 😂
spark lance
yes. and same for me seraph. second time around I figured it out and never had problems after
stoic badger
O _ O
vapid briar
I think when I try to explain it to irl friends without spoilers, I say it has a rogue-like element to it and it suddenly clicks, but I can't exactly do that in an official capacity.
timber ridge
Not in real life lol
stoic badger
I got the ending the first time, but the game had a lot of bugs on launch and that broke the game ending for me more than the change in goal
I really, really hope the Eden bugs get fixed for the wider Android release
blazing sail
I wish I could take this emoji with me to Twitter and whatnot 
timber ridge
lol
stoic badger
I wish custom emoji was a standard
blazing sail
Sign my petition to make it an official emoji
stoic badger
Some day...
near locust
Is there a wince emoji?
blazing sail
Grimace
But I use grimace for other purposes
That Oreo one just covers so much ground tho. So versatile
spark lance
still need a shrug and facepalm emoji in-game 😂
stoic badger
I had to put my face to the screen to read that emoji tbh
timber ridge
I was surprised when I encountered a krill for the first time. They´re way darker than the stone things from Journey.
stoic badger
The tongue and lack of contrast between the eyes and body kinda confuse the impression at smaller sizes x - x
blazing sail
But once you’ve seen it a few times you would just know
stoic badger
I guesssss....?
timber ridge
It works better when bigger
blazing sail
Don’t knock my favorite emoji
stoic badger
little saddle
so totally late to the game (as usual🥇) but I've read that part about having to die in Eden is too confusing for first timers, and I disagree
I WAS totally confused and horrified my first time around it, felt like I totally failed the whole thing and that it would be a total nightmare to have to redo it all just because of this
BUT this made what comes after, when you realise you were indeed supposed to die, all the more enjoyable, and suddenly all the tension and disappointment is lifted
timber ridge
It might be confusing for people not having played Journey before, I guess?
little saddle
I mean, isn't that one of the feelings games seek to achieve? I think it's one of the best part of Sky, that it can surprise players like this and provoke some emotional rollercoaster (though only for the first run)
rustic imp
Still tear up at one part often
dry pivot
I think so too but I totally missed that experience
I got Eden spoilers from my sister. she thought I'm not playing Sky anymore after I quit in the wasteland
little saddle
so yeah, I don't think the game should make it too obvious or give hints of what's to come^^
burnt finch
@little saddle i get that that is probably the feeling TGC is hoping to achieve, but i think some players will just get scared by eden and quit the game 
lusty light
I quit eden midway the first time I went lol
burnt finch
lol
lusty light
That’s why they tell you to get a group
glossy rain
If I could experience sky for the first time again... 
rustic imp
I was with a friend and didn’t want to abandon them even when we got krilled
little saddle
@glossy rain same haha
dry pivot
i need that flash thing MIB can use and wipe my memory
rustic imp
And I thought we fell and got stuck
burnt finch
in my first eden run i started with several people, by the end of it i was alone because everyone else disconnected from me
timber ridge
My only complaint about the ending is I felt it had to many phases compared to the simpler and more effective take of Journey.
little saddle
It's honestly one of Sky's most unique features to make the early and late parts of the game so different. I mean, at first you immerse yourself in a game that's powerful, sensory through images and sounds, you experience the atmosphere, starts munching on that sweet lore, and every new step is a brand new discovery, so much that you feel like you're never gonna get to the end of it and get lost all the time lol. so much to see, to explore.
finite pumice
when I 1st played Journey, I was horrified when I died, and then the burst of elation after that was wonderful. It felt natural. That (for me) is no the case in Sky. the death in Sky is far more brutal, and lacks the depth of meaning that Journey has. For sure, TGC went through a lot of iterations trying to get the balance right. Unfortunately, they ran out of time, and didn't get there (imo). I don't go to "Eden" at all anymore. I just don't see the point. I got to my 100 star kids, am content with the wing wedges I have, and live in hope that more will come to the game to give it some of the depth that was there at the start.
little saddle
And then when you finish Eden for the first time, you start to understand the actual goal of the long term game, you start grinding for candles, unlock cool capes and pants you like in constellations, visit Elders... It becomes a social space where the main goal is to interact with friends, play with bugs and unlock every possible cosmetic^^
burnt finch
i have to say though, my experience with dying in eden was a bit different from other people. my thought process was something like "i need to keep going and save as many stars as i can, even if it kills me" maybe because i get a little too emotionally invested in games
vapid briar
When folks rage about the shock in tone from the later levels, I always get a kick out of it because we have this in the App Store description, but that would require folks to read
dry pivot
mild horror
burnt finch
people reading game warnings?? ktjn what kind of world do you live in
tame musk
lots of people don’t read the description
little saddle
@burnt finch too emotionally invested is the way to play! o/ this way you'll get the most out of it haha
dry pivot
didn't know that lol
tame musk
Lol I didn’t read it! When I found sky I was like “oh pretty game, multiplayer too? I’m down”
vapid briar
I know, I know I live in a world of delusions where people read and check pins, haha.
burnt finch
oh i didnt read anything about the game, i just picked it up lol
little saddle
@burnt finch you should play undertale if you've never tried it before btw
burnt finch
the scary themes just appealed to me though because i love games that start out nice and dive into horror later
@little saddle im in the backer credits for undertale
little saddle
wait what
burnt finch
as in, undertale is like my favorite game for similar reasons :p
little saddle
also doki doki literature club for games starting out nice and then... lol
oooh I see haha
yeah undertale gave me a shot for my money, like it was ridiculous how invested in it I was
burnt finch
ive followed toby's stuff since back when he just did music lol, but anyways off-topic
i like that sky gets scary, but i can see why others dont expect it
little saddle
||when Toriel bakes you a cake in the beginning I almost gave up right there, I didn't want to leave her x)||
oops yeah forgot where I was :p
rustic imp
Journey really set the mood of sky for me
stoic badger
@little saddle
I didn’t sleep properly for two weeks after finishing it, that game truly haunted me
worn field
i wonder how many of us played journey before sky
blazing sail
Coming to Journey after Sky was rough. I still haven’t completed it
timber ridge
Really? Loved Journey.
blazing sail
I stopped at the ||dragon|| bc I figured I’d lose all my cape power.
stoic badger
When i first played Journey i did it on a friends save, so i accidentally skipped most of the game by walking into the last level select gate they made.... whoops
blazing sail
Nah I was stumbling through it
livid ice
Lol
blazing sail
It’s really awkward going from skipping around to just walking
livid ice
It was super weird my first time ...
rustic imp
From journey I was already familiar with throwing myself out into spotlights cause I don’t know where else to go
timber ridge
The ending level in Journey is totally awesome ^^
blazing sail
I get why Journey is so beloved but I wish I played it before Sky
worn field
journey is really quite a different game to sky||, though there are some strong similarities obviously||, so i can understand someone who played sky first not enjoying journey.
livid ice
True ^
timber ridge
And the Valley equivalent level has a sunset scene that si breathtaking (plus Austin Wintory's soundtrack)
livid ice
I enjoy Journey a lot
high copper
Coming from many MMOs i loved the changes in tone from 2-6 the first time, I would be relaxed and in wonder and then boom im struggling to move around in forest, a "challenging" area where i need to be smart moving around from one light source to another. Then relaxed then the fear factor from the first krill blew me away. I was like completely engaged
blazing sail
Journey also gave me the worst case of motion sickness when it first came to iOS
Thankfully they improved the camera but I still get some
timber ridge
Yeah, the art direction is unbelievable
blazing sail
Unlike Sky which I’ve never had an issue with (until the swing lol)
rustic imp
This is turning into #other-tgc-games
timber ridge
Well, time for me to go to bed. You can stop writing until I come back tomorrow.
worn field
it’s much better on ps3/4 i hear
burnt finch
you know what sky needs to hammer it in to people that the game has horror aspects? a krill spotting a kid in the promo images on the app page, but maybe it'd be too spoilery?
worn field
yeah you’re right we’re off topic
dry pivot
I got frustrated in Journey because I couldn't fly like a skykid but I got the same frustration when i first played Sky. I was already getting frustrated in the isle, even more frustrated in the prairie
Forest was rather okay because that level was obviously difficult and I just walked from a lantern to a lantern. (The jellyfish bridge was difficult tho)
blazing sail
I think since Sky is free it doesn’t really need to warn you so much
If you get to that point and you don’t like it anymore you can quit and you didn’t lose any money (unless you spent already which would be weird)
burnt finch
but people drop the game because they expect it to be all happy like on the app page
worn field
besides, the krill levels aren’t necessary to enjoy the game, you can just hang out in the first few levels
blazing sail
Yeah but that’s fine
They don’t like it
I don’t like the krill but I work around them
burnt finch
i guess im more talking about the unwarranted 1 star reviews
burnt finch
oh of course, im just saying there would be less
blazing sail
Like “I love this game so much but after the first world it wanted me to pay to keep playing so 1 star”
burnt finch
lol
blazing sail
That’s like 90% of the reviews for games that have free demos
high copper
Sky caters to many types of players which is also why its so great imo. I know people who like the challenging bits, but i also know others who like the relaxing bits and others who only like the social foundation
blazing sail
Free to try + one-time IAP to unlock the rest should be the best option for everyone, but they get review bombed for not being 100% free
high copper
I love every gamestyle in Sky tho, even if losing stars is so so painful 😥
burnt finch
those types of games should be more common, but instead they're punished for it
tawny prairie
though if I was out right paying for a game, I’d want it on a bigger console (like my switch) but I’m sure ipad is nice for sky
blazing sail
Most iOS games are dirt cheap, tho, compared to Switch
A lot of the same games are available on both but Switch is like 3-5x the price
And you have it in your pocket
stoic badger
@vapid briar The conversation didn’t have an obvious end so I just wanted to say thanks for talking about various things here, the frank responses and insights offered were great :)
Also useful to help better adjust my perspectives on things. Im still skeptical of things like the swing but I feel better about where it’s coming from and where it will go
timber ridge
Yeah, thanks for the chat, @vapid briar it was nice getting some insight from a proper source instead of rumours, for a change.
vapid briar
Sorry once again for dropping out suddenly, the many hats sing their siren song. It's truly one of my favorite things to be able to come in and chat, and I'm glad you're able to find value and gain some insight around the things I am able to talk about. Y'all are wonderful and make being a part of this community so special. Thank you, truly, for granting us the chance to hear us out, especially when we can't tell the entire story.
timber ridge
Don´t work too hard.
little saddle
... unless it's on this sweet sweet lore, then drink more coffee;)
vapid briar
It's an honor and a pleasure to be that bridge between the community and the dev team.
little saddle
jk jk thanks for the talk lol
dry pivot
We are so lucky to have you and devs too are so lucky to have you Ktjn!
vapid briar
Haha, lore is not my story to tell 😛 though it is truly fascinating to see when y'all hit the nail on the head or completely shoot for the moon in your theories.
arctic pecan
Theories!!
blazing sail
How does anyone keep up with general chat? I usually bounce right out bc it moves so fast.
arctic pecan
that’s how the way general channel is, gotta go fast!
blazing sail
This is more my speed
pure stag
Does the gift card in the swing package give 20 candles？🤔
lusty light
All gift passes come with 20 candles
pure stag
Thank you
floral root
After yesterday's update in beta，My umbrella（the big one） is gone. And my caps from Season of Lightseekers are gone too. Has anyone been in this situation? Or is it really just normal in beta?
turbid summit
Can anyone see the #beta-feedback chat? I don’t see anything so I don’t know if I’m repeating what other people say
torn gust
@turbid summit #beta-feedback is only visible to TGC staff! And honestly even if you are unknowingly repeating someone, thats totally ok, because you are offering your own individual take and opinion!
dry pivot
@floral root I don't think it's normal, so the best thing you can do is to report it as a bug. I think most people in beta do not have the big umbrella and cannot tell you if they still have it or not. I still have 4 Lightseeker hairstyles including the oriental hat, and also have the oriental umbrella. I don't have the wasteland spirit's wide brim hat which I never had in beta.
floral root
@dry pivot Thank you very much for your reply. I will compile a document and submit it.
dire rover
You know, one of the things that leads me to view the game more as a developing project made by a group of people where they’re trying their best to make things work is that Ktjn has been talking.
I just noticed how I was reading the conversation now and reconsidering some of my replies here as I know I’m often very brash, and just the activity and mentions of for example the prairie change- that made sense and is a great example of how it can take time for TGC to realize that an area needs rework
Now the question remains
Why can’t we stack hats ingame
brave saddle
Omg imagine
Also what was the suggested change to Prairie? I just started playing less than a week ago so I’m curious
near locust
Things should just stack. Hats. Masks. Swings. Sky kids. Stacking toys is fun. Even babies know dat.
Prairie used to have a tall cliff at the entrance to caves and a ramp and high ledge to get to birds nest area. And the large globular rock was a cul de sac not a pass through.
floral root
I agree that this game is a new model, and many players have made excellent proposals to improve the game. Then I also hope they pay some attention to the feelings of the players, such as the 999 rule; The developer is sure not to launch, so please fix it as soon as possible；if the season cannot be finished, please give an announcement.
lusty light
Seasons aren’t meant to be finished in beta since the only purpose is to test the main features
floral root
if that's all, I hope they give the player a hint.
dire rover
Imo Prarie first plain didn't visually suggest where to go, it was more of an open area with a dome you could enter and then a gate after it, but it was sort of hidden and there was the cliff entrance on the left side that was hard to reach with few wing power, and on the right side there was an opening gate that seemed to make more sense.
Looking at concept art it felt like the prarie starter area was meant to be larger/wider initially. Maybe that created a mismatch in ease of access
Now it gives you options and the spirit gates show you that you're not ready to go to the various areas yet, and the holes in the dome with the snaking pathway makes it easier to understand the progression of the level
You don't have to fly high to go anywhere as you lack wing power and that makes sense