we don't know if they'll increase the 7k cap to a higher amount
#beta-discussion
spark lance
hollow compass
it's entirely possible not that many people will be as interested as they were back when the game wasn't live yet
spark lance
yep
i think there are a total of around 10k in this discord + fb group
they wouldn't kick everyone out now because we just had two updates
which we're testing
hollow compass
we had two? I only saw one.
oh, I must have missed the 139750 build, I only saw the 139798 one that came after
what do you think they mean by "cape upgrades"?
lusty light
Nope :/
hollow compass
what a mystery!
spark lance
meant a kick specifically on "Tuesday, August 27"
arctic pecan
finally and i thought downloading TestFlight gonna be a nightmare for me
considering how i spent stuffs without checking which country i’m in
which is odd considering how i never change the setting
woooo!! that means i’ll be up for the beta!
spark lance
steep crystal
oof thats hefty
frigid shadow
D: does that mean getting cosmetics will take even longer now
haughty vigil
oh yikes ,,, kinda not into the updates tht r gonna be in beta
lusty light
you had to upgrade to hug to begin with to send hearts
limber granite
jeepers
lusty light
they're just making it consistent
why should it be different sending hearts via constellation than in person?
rich wolf
I normally only send ♥ to my ⭐ friends anyways
shut aurora
So why do they want to stop heart trading? Some things cost 30 hearts and I hardly trade hearts because it's hard.
frigid shadow
oH wait so you need to unlock hug to send one through their constellation too? D:
lusty light
no one is preventing you from sending hearts to your friends?
shut aurora
Yep, and your first heart will cost 6 candles not 3
rich wolf
pls keep the heart send cost to 3
lusty light
it still costs 3.
frigid shadow
oh xD I completely forgot that sending hearts in person comes after the hug orz massive facepalm
hybrid wedge
The cost of hearts isn’t changing.
It is still going to be possible to unlock everything in the spirit constellations without spending any money if you choose.
dry jetty
paying for wing upgrades is p2w
lusty light
where did you hear that you have to pay for wing upgrades
rich summit
Possible.. will just take about a year
hybrid wedge
Wing upgrades don’t cost anything.
lusty light
last i heard shop meant constellation shop
and you can't access the iap shop in beta, so whoever said that is wrong
hybrid wedge
You can read the patch notes someone posted earlier.
Trust that and not rumor or speculation.
lusty light
the constellation shop is also very buggy in beta as of now
rich wolf
how to stop heart trading....
❎ make hearts harder to get
✅ make hearts easier to get
lusty light
they're not making hearts harder to get
lusty light
you do in person
you've always had to unlock hug to send hearts
i've been playing for over a year now
hybrid wedge
Yep. Even before the constellations were a thing.
rich wolf
in person, you can use 3 to send it not in person
lusty light
it still costs 3 to send it not in person
haughty vigil
so,,,, does the shop thing mean like
spark lance
But you need hug now.
haughty vigil
more spirits will have 2 wing buffs ?
rich wolf
so that just means people will stop sending hearts in person
and just use 3 candles
spark lance
So yes, it makes it ultimately harder
shut aurora
Now you need a hug normally? Or are they still meaning just in person?
lusty light
@haughty vigil that's what should happen yes
calm bloom
I don’t understand why companies do things that kill their products
Anti consumer changes
wraith yacht
Prodcuts
potent torrent
This isn’t killing it???
rich wolf
I think 2nd tier wing buffs should have a heart
haughty vigil
aaa okay !!
potent torrent
This is gettin’ a little outta hand y’all
lusty light
you guys are really blowing this way out of proportion
this isn't "killing the game"
calm bloom
Well not killing it
spark lance
Selling wing buffs for IAP.
rich wolf
its not explained well
calm bloom
But like hurting it.
wraith yacht
People don't like the changes, that's what's happening
calm bloom
Yea
wraith yacht
Im curious what'll happen
weak garnet
farming in this game is already time consuming. in no way is it killing it but its becoming a serious grind if this is implemented.
wraith yacht
Gotta try it myself before I get upset
lusty light
they are not selling wing buffs for real money
calm bloom
That is why the changes can hurt the game.
potent torrent
A reminder this game’s free, and they’re being extremely generous with not making pay walls or crap
hybrid wedge
The changes haven’t even happened yet, it’s pretty hyperbolic to claim the game is ruined 
lusty light
the constellation shop.
calm bloom
It’s not ruined
spark lance
How on Earth has it been posted as that?
weak garnet
i mean they kind of have pay walls already
calm bloom
But the way they are driving the game could hurt it
rich wolf
can someone just explain what is going on?
weak garnet
you cant even buy some of the SoG items without the adventure pass
shut aurora
It might not be ruined but they don't seem to be taking into account any suggestions from users 🤷🏻♀️
calm bloom
Because people will be less motivated to grind as it takes much more time
Getting elder hairs is now harder.
spark lance
"Shop" is very indicative of the IAP shop. No indication of "wing buffs" w/ regards to constellation in the slightest.
lusty light
they referred to the constellation shop as just "shop" multiple times in the past
calm bloom
But we have to see what happens
lusty light
in fact the last update referred to constellation shop as just "shop"
rich wolf
Now, if they mean "wing buffs" from seasonal spirits... I'm okay with that
shut aurora
I appreciate hard games, but having to constantly grind the same thing every day is tough and gets boring
potent torrent
Well yes, the cosmetics, that’s their way of asking us to help out while getting a reward, you don’t see them asking us to pay a toll into Eden do you??
lusty light
- Fixed all shop arrangements
spark lance
The wing buffs are a small issue.
Having Hug unlocked to send hearts is a bigger issue.
potent torrent
They aren’t asking us to pay for required things
spark lance
Probably better explain the patch notes next time.
potent torrent
Y’all should be grateful
rich wolf
- Switch Hug and High-Five
weak garnet
having a game free to play isnt exactly groundbreaking. im appreciative but with the price the seasonal items already are and some people taking the whole season to save up for certain items only to find there is a paywall is kind of dumb.
barren tree
WAIT ARE HEARTS GONNA COST MORE NOW???
spark lance
Yes, I am grateful that my candle costs for unlocking cosmetics is going from 2.2k -> 3.9k if I have to unlock hug per new person.
DEFINITELY grateful.
weak garnet
pointing out things being overpriced AND behind a paywall isnt being unappreciative of the game. i dont think you understand critisism.
potent torrent
No Mouser they aren’t, that was an accidental rumor
barren tree
Thank u so much
spark lance
It's not a rumour, hold up.
weak garnet
it might be implemented. thats all we know.
barren tree
Stop playing with me
lusty light
hearts still cost 3 candles to send.
rich wolf
@barren tree if they make hug mandatory to send hearts, hearts 100% more expensive
hybrid wedge
If a player only ever gives one heart to a person ever, sure. If a player plays with the same people regularly, they’re gonna unlock hug anyway.
spark lance
potent torrent
Ok I need to mute this, I’m gonna get angry sjajama
weak garnet
lol ok.
spark lance
Basically; you pay 3 candles to unlock Hug now - apparently, it was like this if you sent hearts "in person".
It was a bug that you could send hearts off the bat.
lusty light
It's been like this for over a year
rich wolf
solution: make hug NOT cost 3 candles
spark lance
No one trades like this normally.
spark lance
It's a disgusting change and laughable daily quests giving 4 extra candles isn't going to alleviate that issue.
barren tree
😳
spark lance
Hug costs 3 candles, not hearts.
rich wolf
@spark lance daily quests (not relating to seasonal quests) actually might alleviate some of the burden
spark lance
So, following the trend; you want to now heart trade with people you meet in-game. Your price point goes up from 2.2k candles for all cosmetics to 3.9k. This is not including candles you spend on hearts for seasonal items.
haughty vigil
i think with this ,,,, i honestly think we have to try out this new change for like a week then determine from there if we actually hate it or if we dont hate it
weak garnet
i feel like if all of these changes are added people are going to buy all of the hearts from the spirits then be demotivated.
lusty light
hug doesn't cost 3 candles
spark lance
@rich wolf It will be 4 normal candles per day.
rich wolf
@lusty light +1 candle to friend a person, +1 candle to unlock high five , +2 candles to unlock hug
shut aurora
How does a hug not cost candles?
spark lance
Assumptions.
orchid nexus
The cost of friend upgrades also doesn't apply to every heart. It's once per friend, so that math is hugely flawed
haughty vigil
4 normal candles just by daily quests is already ,,,,,,, one heart
weak garnet
it MIGHT be. lets not recognize these changes as planned.
barren tree
Ok then keep them as assumptions plz
potent torrent
You guys realize you can get up to 16 candles in a day right?
barren tree
How
haughty vigil
yeah so now thats bumped to 20
potent torrent
Without helps from friends
spark lance
Look at wording before talking about it.
shut aurora
For people who can spend all day grinding every area
orchid nexus
Nobody would play that way, and you've inflated it you make your point
weak garnet
i havent ever gotten more than five candles a day grinding. i guess if you wanna spend half your dat looking for them.
spark lance
nobody would play that way
spark lance
I have a community nearly as popular and more active than this one
potent torrent
I literally play it that way everyday
potent torrent
I wouldn’t say it otherwise
barren tree
Woah chill
weak garnet
well im glad you have that much time
shut aurora
I wanna see it in game before getting mad, but right now it seems silly to implement a harder way to trade hearts when so many people have asked for other ways to earn them
haughty vigil
^^
haughty vigil
def wanna see it ingame before have a final opinion
weak garnet
i dont know what your point is do you want us to just shut up and stop critisizing the game totally?
haughty vigil
thats two hearts a day^
limber granite
could add a daily heart
wraith cedar
Dang I didn’t know people would get mad over a simple change like this
barren tree
Yeah
spark lance
"simple"
limber granite
simple?
spark lance
😂
barren tree
It hasn’t happened tho
wraith cedar
Yeah it’s like one change
limber granite
but it could
weak garnet
a daily heart would be so helpful because with some people hearts are never a promise.
orchid nexus
There's a lot of speculation going on here that isn't advancing anyone's understanding. Dakota, you have every right to feel proud off your server if it runs the way you like.
haughty vigil
so already you get two hearts/ possibly three if you run through hidden forest to do a quick candle collection
limber granite
i only get 2 candles through hidden forest though
potent torrent
I do agree with daily heart though, if they’re doing this
rich wolf
like the daily seasonal candle, if they gave use 1 guarantee heart per day, a lot of people would probably be great
haughty vigil
if youre lazy, with the new changes you can get about 3 hearts everyday
wraith cedar
3 hearts a day doesn’t sound that bad
weak garnet
i havent managed to get one heart out of hidden forest in a day how much time does it take yall to comb every candle like this
rich wolf
the more I think about it, a daily heart sounds better and better
shut aurora
How do you get a heart from forest?
haughty vigil
i usually get around 3 candles from forest
spark lance
Daily hearts or increased forge exp are things I talked about with my community a lot.
haughty vigil
so that makes 1 heart
subtle tendon
make login rewards lol there
potent torrent
Or maybe, at least 1 heart every two days?
spark lance
But, a simple daily extra candles is absurd with this new change.
potent torrent
At the very least
shut aurora
Well that's relying on someone sending one or still having spirits to trade with
subtle tendon
people will be inclined to tune in everyday
potent torrent
Maybe get it at the end of Eden?
rich wolf
login reward = daily heart @subtle tendon
rich summit
If you stick with the same friends. I’ve made a lot of friends with complete strangers but this update makes it cliquey.. I’m not as likely to trade with more people if it’s less expensive to stick with like the three people I have.
wraith cedar
Also this only affects the people who you haven’t unlocked hug with yet, so if you want to heart trade so much why don’t you just do daily heart trades with your best friends? (Assuming you’ve unlocked hug with your best friends, like you naturally would)
potent torrent
Because if it was everyday, people wouldn’t need to help from others anymore
limber granite
i was like the third wheel
weak garnet
if we got a heart everytime we completed eden id be over the moon
subtle tendon
literally all MMOs have this implement and it works so
spark lance
Mobile gaming friends are mostly always temporary and everchanging, TGC know this and is why they are pushing this update for Live because it will corner people into buying more candles.
It's as simple as that.
weak garnet
a lot for incentive to help others on eden too
haughty vigil
every day you can get 2/3 hearts // 7 days a week so thats already . 14-21 hearts a week
proven trout
i feel like you make too many assumptions
spark lance
Just 3-4 weeks for 1 item.
limber granite
i dont even play sky that often anymore cause of lack of rewards
spark lance
poggers
haughty vigil
im lucky if i get 7 hearts a week
shut aurora
Same ^
weak garnet
you kind of just negated your own point.
rich wolf
I think they could limit hearts to favorite friends and it would be better (then add a cooldown to unfavoriting/refavoriting a friend)
weak garnet
favorite friends system would be pointless as itd just be heart based then
rich wolf
because I only really send/get hearts from my favorite friends anyways
weak garnet
its for categorizing not farming
haughty vigil
^
spark lance
maybe only hearts from friends with qr? thatd be difficult too though
rich wolf
higher level friends = friends that send hearts
potent torrent
What does favorite friends even do actually?
haughty vigil
thatd b bad
weak garnet
just for sorting
rich wolf
favoriting friends puts them in a special constellation
spark lance
ok ok scratch that
haughty vigil
i have a friend i met in the game n we play almost always together/do daily heart trades
spark lance
ok ok errr
potent torrent
Ah ok just checking
potent torrent
I have one too
rich wolf
@haughty vigil a friend like that I would favorite
haughty vigil
so qr codes dont work
spark lance
yeah
haughty vigil
mhms !! theyre favourited
spark lance
I get hearts from more than fav friends; also, only fav hearts means only 13 possible people, which a cool-down to change who makes worse.
weak garnet
idea. maybe 2-3 ascended candles for a heart system? but it doesnt run out like the hearts from spirits do
rich wolf
maybe favorite friend hug cost -1?
wraith cedar
I’m pretty sure this change was made to make sending hearts more personal and more of a sign of appreciation, because you’ll probably only have hug unlocked with friends you actually play with more regularly which means if they send you a heart that means you’re good friends
mortal crown
^^^
rich wolf
I have friends I see everyday and they never send me a heart
weak garnet
i have yet to get a heart back from regular friends but once
limber granite
i dont play with anyone
spark lance
@wraith cedar Yes, but I think primarily it was against shell accounts (aka "alts" or "subs") where people register several IDs and send themselves hearts.
@wraith cedar Sure, that might be true but people are acting like trading for the sake of trading isn't a large enough of an issue to warrant feedback about the change.
limber granite
so no hearts for me
spark lance
Immediately dismissing someone's maths that shows the cost increases.
agile badge
how about for now we agree to disagree about the released information on updates and simply wait. trial and error is the only way of figuring out what works and what doesn’t, not arguing over what hasn’t even been implemented. if we still don’t like it afterwards, the updates are then subject to criticism.
spark lance
Very dangerous.
limber granite
but if we dont argue now then they might implement it
weak garnet
thats a really long way to spell "shut up everyone"
limber granite
shut up in 300 languages
weak garnet
let people discuss things just mute the chat Lord lol
its literally CALLED beta-DISCUSSION
shut aurora
I think people should be allowed to discuss changes being brought up.
wraith cedar
Yeah the cost increases if you just trade with new random people
But if you have friends you can regularly trade with there shouldn’t be an issue
agile badge
y’all aren’t discussing lmao
lusty light
@spark lance you can have more than 13 favorite friends
agile badge
you’re arguing good and true
weak garnet
what are we doing then? everyones giving their feedback
you seem the only one upset.
limber granite
if you dont like what we're doing then leave
nova crystal
i'm still kinda confused, i trade daily hearts with 5 ppl i met through qr so i didn't have to unlock every tier first. is the update going to take that advantage away????
spark lance
Yes
weak garnet
there have been a ton of awesome suggestions i think its important to have fan opinions out there.
spark lance
You will to buy Hug with them.
nova crystal
aw man
shut aurora
looks like it, which is the update I most dislike right now
wraith cedar
You just need to spend 3 candles on each person to unlock heart gifting again
spark lance
@lusty light Oh? That's happy, I guess. But if hearts are easier from them like Heather suggested, you know what's gonna happen: favorite every friend 😕
lusty light
having a favorite friend is just what it's advertised as, a favorite friend
all you do is get notifications that they are online and a special spot for them
rich wolf
you only have enough room to favorite a select group of friends @spark lance
hybrid wedge
No, Heather, they just move to other areas in the sky.
wraith cedar
It would be strange you got perks for marking someone as favorite
hybrid wedge
They rotate in and out.
rich wolf
did not know that
spark lance
What do you think of my idea in #suggestions? Here it is:
I notice 10-candle hearts blowing up in #beta-discussion so my idea is: make each heart cost progressively more throughout the week from each person to each person. That way, it's not so "pay to win" while still encouraging 1 heart at least from good friends per week at a low cost. After Eden resets, we can all give our best friends 1 heart at 3 candles, then if we give any one we've already given one a 2nd heart, that costs 10 candles, a 3rd costs 20, etc. or whatever ramp-up in cost you pick, could be 3, 6, then 12 hearts, etc.
rich wolf
maybe sending hearts using ascended candles?
orchid nexus
I think there might be more that's planned with the economy than we collectively can identify. I'm sure that changes aren't intended to make the game harder for anyone though. I think once we all play the beta changes we'll be able to give more informed feedback.
potent torrent
Oh noooo Heather that’d break me X’D
hybrid wedge
Not sure what you mean by 10-candle hearts?
rich wolf
1 ascended candle to send a heart OR use 3 regular candles
shut aurora
I already think getting hearts is hard enough since I can't grind every spot each day 🤷🏻♀️
spark lance
@rich wolf The thing about that is it doesn't address the core issue of account bloat (alts/subs).
@orchid nexus I disagree, you can see from the wording choice in TGC's stream before this one that they want to curb people trading hearts so easily.
They want the grind to be long as it promotes growth for the company.
They're just not doing a very good job at conveying the game is interesting enough to warrant such a system.
Due to being indie, most likely.
orchid nexus
We will both see when we play the beta. But I know your server would not be the success it is if it were based on one-time trades
rich wolf
if you want to combat piracy the best thing to do (and rl has proven this) is to offer it yourself in a more safe and better way than pirates could ever do
spark lance
We've been a very stable and big community, even more so since we moved on from just "H4H", which lasted no more than a day.
rich wolf
heart trading
lusty light
trading hearts isn't piracy
shut aurora
People create multiple accounts and trade themselves hearts
spark lance
But, it is still indicative that people absolute abhor the current economy and the wording choice from TGC on streams indicate they care more about curbing H4H than actually fixing stuff.
wraith cedar
Personally I think that it’s a good change
rich wolf
if you want to curb H4H, you have to make it so people don't see it as a better option
lusty light
you shouldn't say that tgc isn't working on fixing stuff at all
chrome locust
i just want to put it out there that i'd buy the season pass every time if i know that i wouldn't have to grind every day to get the items i paid for. if hearts are harder to get i'm not sure it'll be worth it because i don't have the time to g et every single candle in the game every day and hope people send me back hearts
lusty light
this update fixed griefing with tables
shut aurora
I understand what they want to change and why but I don't think this is necessarily the right option. It could work tho, we won't know until it's in
orchid nexus
Speaking in absolutes doesn't give room for agreement. No individual is targeted by changes, and the company has a very different view than we do.
spark lance
TGC being about growth for themselves would mean less grind and more paywall; yet Sky's structure is the exact opposite.
lusty light
Yes, you shouldn't try speaking for tgc because you feel like you've been slighted
hybrid wedge
It could work tho, we won’t know until it’s in
Yep, pretty much.
That’s what beta is for. ^^
nova crystal
hm, it would be a damper to those whose only source of heart income come from trading hearts
shut aurora
^
rich wolf
I think it could work tied into other things, like daily quests, maybe daily reward, etc.
orchid nexus
Having played beta a long time I've seen economy experiments in Sky before. I'm not ready to panic yet.
haughty vigil
im gonna assume theres been conversations like this before, then
'the sky economy is ruined!!!'
spark lance
The Sky is falling! 🥁
lusty light
people have been complaining about every change that has happened in beta since beta started basically
orchid nexus
I get hearts from friend who don't have hug unlocked, so I wonder the same things. So let's give it a shot and be frank with feedback when we've seen it in action.
lunar dome
Ahh honestly it takes me over a week to even get a few heart trades
If they gonna up the costs of doing h4h then I hope to see the worth of wax shoot up too. Like how easy it is to get wax from gratitude, you get one whole candle that way just from four different wax
orchid nexus
Not at all. Give feedback while it's in beta.
lunar dome
Yeah, cause thats literally what beta is for— to give feedback on the changes that are upcoming
Not when it goes live
orchid nexus
There have been massive changes that were scrapped because they didn't work well in beta.
haughty vigil
can i ask,,, what were some of the old changes that didnt work out?
potent torrent
Its hard to change it if it’s already happening
orchid nexus
Everyone who has an opinion and wants to improve the game, I hope can participate in beta too. It's been a fabulous view into the thinking behind the game, and part of what gave me improved faith in TGC and what they are trying to build.
spark lance
But, it is a change that direct affects people on how they trade with strangers - a system which is solely relied upon because people quit all the time. I am telling you this will make it to live whilst keep the heart economy as hard as it is. It benefits them if people spend money to unlock quicker even if it means losing some players.
You don't see this behaviour as mods because you've banned every goddamn chance to promote that type of behaviour.
Acting like people trade in person is common, is simply not true.
Hence why most are annoyed that this change could potentially make things harder.
haughty vigil
for me personally, i almost always trade in person bc it feels more special skks,,,,,
wraith cedar
^ Yeah same here
dire rover
This is an interesting conversation.
Is the suggestion that they will change the heart cost to be 10 candles?
Because I think being able to unlock the friend tree higher to allow for the same cost hearts would mean you make better friends with someone instead of having a lot of friends to easily get hearts.
haughty vigil
^ and long term, you can get more hearts
lunar dome
I only trade to people I actually talk to in game because of the trust. If a random were to trade with me is what I feel wouldn’t work because half the time we don’t get the hearts back, yet we gave them one
wraith cedar
Where did the "10 candles for a heart" thing even come from? No one ever said that
haughty vigil
friendship upgrades
spark lance
Hearts will initially up to 10 candles, whilst the actual cost remains 3.
dire rover
Where did you get this information?
hybrid wedge
@dire rover no, there is nothing saying that hearts will cost 10 candles.
dire rover
Just curious here
spark lance
So building relationships with strangers will be more expensive.
lunar dome
I think to just better it would be to only trade hearts in game where you both put candles in at the same time, if one doesn’t put in candles then the heart wont go through
dire rover
Because dakota seems to be stating instead of suggesting
spark lance
Hearts are a commodity, it's as simple as that.
lusty light
well the point is that you eventually aren't strangers anymore and then you give a heart as a thanks to being a good friend
hybrid wedge
The only change in beta is to make hearts sendable in constellations after unlocking hug, same as doing it in person.
dire rover
Oh like that
I don't mind that change. It seemed like a cheap way around to trade hearts anyways.
spark lance
The only change in beta is to make hearts sendable in constellations after unlocking hug, same as doing it in person.
Sure, but you guys are acting like MANY people are trading actively in person. Which simply isn't the case.
wraith cedar
Yeah exactly (in reply to Starflame)
hybrid wedge
Belpita wasn’t saying that to mean unlocking the whole constellation. They were referring to the hug thing.
haughty vigil
^^ from what im getting from this, you were supposed to only be able to send hearts in constellation after unlocking hug
hybrid wedge
Yeah, Finnegan, that’s what it sounds like to me too.
haughty vigil
so devs are just fixing it to what they wanted/how it was supposed to be
wraith cedar
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was an oversight
spark lance
A very big oversight, then. 
wraith cedar
How were we supposed to know it wasn’t intended? If we didn’t know then we couldn’t have reported it
spark lance
Dude
Please.
They're an indie business starving for funding for projects - it was obvious the easy trade over constellation was made easy because it encourages people to use that system.
Now that the honeymoon phase is over
it's time to make it just that little bit harder.
orchid nexus
You can still send hearts via constellation, after you unlock friendship tier.
nova crystal
i think overall it makes grinding a heavier more tedious task, since you only get about 16 a day (and that's if you go to EVERY plant and EVERY candle), to unlock hug in total costs 4 candles, and even then hearts cost 3 candles, so you'd only really be able to get 2 hearts a day, and that's being generous
dire rover
They likely have weekly meetings about this and especially now after a month of the global version being live they have made changes to better reflect the way forward and the way they feel the game should be played.
Assuming they're both thinking about balancing how players enjoy the game, versus how they want players to feel about playing it in regards to earning hearts, and potentially paying for hearts- as it is a MTX based mobile game, it's natural to see them carefully balance one of the most sought after currencies.
Ascended candles are nothing but weekly normal candles, the real "gold" is hearts.
mortal crown
Hearts? I thought it was candles
wraith cedar
I’m very sure this was not some business decision to incentivize people to buy more candles
haughty vigil
noO
yes
candles
im sorry
4 daily candles
thank u for pointing out my mistake
mortal crown
It’s fine !
spark lance
Jesus, if the dailies were hearts.
wraith cedar
Actually there’s only 2 daily quests right now when it’s off-season
spark lance
that'd be the dream.
dire rover
It's a balancing act for sure. You don't want players to earn candles too easily because then the shop is pointless, but you don't want it to be too hard because then it would be a cash grab. You also don't want it to be too expensive either because it's even more so
orchid nexus
I rarely get hearts from someone I haven't gotten one from before. Most, but not all, I get from friends I already have hug unlocked with.
lusty light
^ i usually only send hearts to friends i play with often and have a good time with
spark lance
me me me
dire rover
Considering the replayability of the game and how stale the grind gets, this isn't something they're lightly considering.
spark lance
It's so funny because I've actually gotten a lot of hearts from people I barely know, and many don't even speak English!
dire rover
People I have interacted with more both in unlocking friendships and playing ingame as well as talking in communities like this discord, have given me more hearts back than others who are new, or haven't unlocked any cosmetics and such.
Making good relationships is much more rewarding because you start to trust certain players and you don't even expect a heart back, you instinctively know you'll get one eventually
spark lance
@dire rover Generally speaking this is true; in my experience, though, long heart streaks can come from near strangers, too...but in a good way, not in a commodified, H4H way ✌️
wraith cedar
Now that I think about it, this change also gets rid of instances where you and another player sit down on a bench, you say hi and the other just says "wanna trade hearts?"
dire rover
There's a bit too much focus on getting cosmetics faster, which I totally understand. But the key will be to see how TGC ramps it up from getting some of the lower cost items, to the more expensive and sought after. Right now I feel it's pretty balanced. The White and Black capes are endgame items, it shouldn't be acquired in a few days
spark lance
I mean
lusty light
Yes, i like to talk to players at home sometimes and i would have people randomly come up and ask to trade hearts
spark lance
This change gets rid of a lot of people from the game, that's for sure.
lusty light
i decline of course but it ruins the mood
spark lance
Let's hope it doesn't make it to live.
A lot of people don't realise how important heart trading is if they only use this discord for exposure, it has been banned since the 3rd/4th day of the game launching to even talk about it here.
but
if they lose 150k players for an extra ££££
Easy loss, tbh.
frigid shadow
the friends that I get hearts from are usually ones I've unlocked hug with, so it isn't such a big problem now that I think about it 🤔 but there's also a player that I've just met that gives me hearts a lot so D:
wraith cedar
I’m pretty sure this change isn’t going to drive people away from playing the game
I think it’s actually going to incentivize longer lasting friendships
lusty light
You do realize it was banned because it has and literally still is leading to harassment
spark lance
I realise that was the excuse
dire rover
You're discounting the amount of actual players who use microtransactions in mobile games @spark lance
We are a small %, the average player will buy seasonal passes and candles to get what they want. This change will make some more cunning players dislike the curve of heart trading more, but ultimately that is such a small fraction of the others who would pay or play more.
spark lance
TGC get criticized both for cash-grab to focus on true friendship, and then supposed foolhardiness for losing money? slow clap
but after seeing 800 people join just to trade and had only 1 case of scamming / harassment
I find the excuse weak.
lusty light
it's not an excuse, multiple people have come forward to mods/admins with being harassed in dms over hearts
so we ultimately banned it
spark lance
People claim harassment if you look at them funny.
dire rover
800 players who join a place to trade hearts is a very small amount compared to the hundreds of thousands who have access to this game via the iOS appstore
it's not even 0.01% of players
like, at all
dire rover
Discord doesn't mean anything
There's hundreds of thousands of players playing
This is those who are more interested than the average kid playing on his phone
radiant drum
@spark lance this is a family friendly server so no cursing, please edit your message
spark lance
@dire rover Subjective, your next point?
opaque parrot
There's a bit too much focus on getting cosmetics faster
What else is there to do once you've gone through Eden and found all the spirits though? At that point you can either grind for cosmetics or use sky as a glorified chat room. The core feedback loop isn't incentivizing enough to want to play on it's own so people rely on the Skinner box to find the game fun
frigid shadow
a lot of players, including me, play it for the fact that it's fun with friends :0c
proven trout
dakota, your points can be argued as subjective as well
spark lance
Indeed.
honest rapids
what do you mean discord doesnt mean anything??? What. If anything, since we are more interested in the game, we're most likely be the ones to be playing far longer.
dire rover
What do you mean?
What we discuss here such a small percentage of actual players and those who spend money on the game. It's almost pointless due to how TGC can just add MTX items or make it more expensive to trade hearts, making it almost necessary to buy candles.
My point is that even if we discuss here it doesn't mean TGC already has a plan for how they want to balance hearts and MTX. They can get an idea if their players like it, but reddit and discord is an miniscule amount of players. The artist on stream mentioned that they didn't know people liked the cape designs until someone mentioned it on discord and such.
They can balance it as they want. Arguing that making hearts harder to get is detrimental to the game is a moot point, as that might be the intention.
my reply is to dakota*
dire rover
Also how are calling something "subjective" a point lol, everything here is subjective.
honest rapids
and how well or bad do
dire rover
Midori I just mean in terms of how many people actually play a game like this. The people who talk about Clash of Clans is so small versus those who just play it
vapid briar
While we welcome discussions about all parts of the game, criticism included, please keep those conversations civil.
We will not tolerate personal attacks against other members of this server. Differing opinions are not an invitation to mock one another. This includes twisting what others have said to fit your own personal agendas and opinions.
Consider this a warning to those taking part in this type of behavior. If you continue, we will take appropriate actions.
Additionally, using this server as a platform for another server—whether to recruit others, or to dismiss members of our community—is not acceptable behavior.
honest rapids
okay
spark lance
whether to recruit others, or to dismiss members of our community—is not acceptable behavior.
No one has done that?
so the ratio for hearts is now going to become 6:1 (in the beta)
honest rapids
Yeah I hadn't seen that. and I've caught up with over 200 msgs lol
wraith cedar
It’s just on the first trade if you haven’t unlocked hug yet
frigid shadow
I think it's just a reminder, not that necessarily anyone did it? 🤔
spark lance
time to spend money and trade before the update :,)
@spark lance @dire rover @honest rapids
honest rapids
I'm not fighting. I was confused
dire rover
I think it's very good to remember that this is a game to enjoy, and we don't really have more "power" over decisions than to say what we like or not.
I'm just saying that because certain users here seem to be very opinionated about what should and shouldn't be in the game
spark lance
Does anyone else agree that making it harder for people to own cosmetics brings up the demand for them, therefore in an attempt to make the game less focused on items, the devs would now have created a very high demand (vs making it so anyone could get any item which would make items not important)?
fluid gazelle
So wait, are you saying that you have to pay 6 candles to unlock the ability to pay 3 candles to send someone a heart or that the cost of sending hearts is 6 candles?
dire rover
Let's let them put in their heart system. See how it goes. TGC is still finding their groove for this. If players stop trading hearts because it's too hard they'll revert their changes.
wraith cedar
Sending hearts is still just 3 candles
spark lance
yah the only difference is you have to unlock hug
wraith cedar
You need to spend 3 more candles to unlock the ability that’s all
fluid gazelle
Oh ok. Thanks 😊
honest rapids
IF a heart will cost 10 candles, all I know is that I am going to be one of those players that will not be able to get 1 heart a week. And I'm not exaggerating (bc I am not relying on 10 candles on messages). Considering how my week was, I know it's gonna be worse from now on.
lusty light
just like how you need to unlock hug in person to send a heart, you must do the same to send it over the constellation
wraith cedar
Hearts aren’t gonna cost 10 candles
fluid gazelle
Query, does this require you to unlock it if you became friends with someone through sending a QR code?
haughty vigil
hot take: short term, this new change is bad/ long term, this new change is better
vapid briar
@spark lance you've been using the size/activity your discord community as a point of reference to justify that your opinions are more valuable or more valid than others' in here. Dismissing Starflame's comments as subjective, which when it comes to opinions, everything is subject.
honest rapids
well that's a way to look at it. not the way i saw it. oh well
haughty vigil
so short term: grinding for candles to get the 'hug' option is a little grindy and time consuming and tiring but long term: you can get up to 21 hearts a week if you have at least three active good friends
honest rapids
well anyways, i dont think they will cost 10 candles. just a big IF
haughty vigil
so if you want cosmetics and things, this change is better long term
frigid shadow
I agree with @haughty vigil , and it also makes me wanna upgrade friendships more 👀 even if it might make grinding for cosmetics harder
spark lance
shut aurora
How is it 10 candles? Just confused on the math
spark lance
@shut aurora initial cost.
honest rapids
finn
haughty vigil
because after just three friends youre getting more candles per day/up to 21 hearts a week so its better long term, imo
honest rapids
but isn't that talking about the ones who actually have the time to go to each section and get every single candle?
each day
all 7 days of the week
haughty vigil
three friends who consistently do heart trades with you
proven trout
i like how it wouod encourage us to upgrade friendships lol i looove the hug
honest rapids
so again, that applies to those who can get 9 each day for 7 days
correct?
minimun
haughty vigil
4 from daily quests. two from valley, three from running through hidden forest& maybe another
its not that hard to do.
winged jacinth
If they make the run for candles more bearable with skippable cut scenes and wax that dont glitch out. It would be perfect even with hug heart trading
haughty vigil
from what ive heard, its four candles for daily quests
honest rapids
it is hard actually. I just experienced it this week
honest rapids
oh yeah the cutscens
haughty vigil
its really not that hard to do ? if you know every place in hidden forest with wax you can get 2/3 candles, then another 2 from the races and then 4 from dailies
dire rover
It is a bit tedious to keep farming for light each day though. Then again it is a mtx loaded game. you're not supposed to farm super hard, "technically".
honest rapids
hard as in having the ttime
weak garnet
suggestion: option to mute or just remove fireworks from your game experience
haughty vigil
having the time, yeah
but it should really take only around 30 mins if youre quick
honest rapids
this week alone i could get 10. and I know there are a lot others that have less time than me. I wonder honestly who plays this more. kids or adults or in betweens xD
winged jacinth
Ive noticed if you spam your emotes, they gradually become quieter. If they do the same with fireworks. Would be fine
honest rapids
Many player are -not- quick :/
nova crystal
if it helps to anyone, i go to every single dark plant and candle that gives wax daily; i could post a map of my route and it gets me at least 17 candles, takes about 30 minutes
honest rapids
really? aww i like fireworks
dire rover
The fireworks is a bit much at times 
winged jacinth
Yeah, they cool. Not cool when a gang of chibees make you a seizure fest
weak garnet
theyre too loud for me sometimes as i have processing issues also they make the game lag a lot at leadst for me
honest rapids
same with glowing spell
haughty vigil
@nova crystal yeah ! could you share your route ? would be useful for many players here
including .. me
nova crystal
yea np!
spark lance
Ooh I’d like that as well, thank you!!
trim skiff
Glowing spell is so much. Especially considering the contrast on some levels is already really weird on iPhone. I get straight up blinded by the glow in Wasteland
honest rapids
i was blinded in hidden forest
dire rover
I hope they will add HDR lighting in the beta just for fun*
winged jacinth
Moments before getting blinded...
dire rover
That would be sick
opaque parrot
My only concern is increasing the effective cost of hearts correlates to an increase in micro-transaction sales. If the change allegedly is to resolve scamming I would like to see concrete proof that it would actually do so. It could potentially increasing the damage of scamming because now victims are out an additional 3 candles on top of a heart.
And I feel most people in the Beta are savvy enough for it not to be a very effective proving ground
spark lance
It's not just scamming, it's also account bloat and harrassment seeking trades.
frigid shadow
true 🤔 most of the problems caused by it is from players who abuse the system orz
opaque parrot
My argument doesn't change for harassment. Could you elaborate on account bloat?
spark lance
Registering multiple IDs and/or using multiple devices to send yourself hearts.
opaque parrot
Doesn't that encourage account bloat as now its even more expensive to "try out" a friend and see if they're trustworthy?
spark lance
Account bloat of the same player's ID's 😉
viscid dragon
The entire concept of trading hearts in the way your describing is not part of TGC’s intention. They’ve stated this many times, and further changes will be coming to bring the game more in line with it.
spark lance
Exactly. Scammed or not, it's still part of the H4H problem.
opaque parrot
Social economics are still economics, it's just heart trading with extra steps
spark lance
That doesn't mean the social has to be disjointed in the economics' favor, which is the whole point of this indie, socially focused game 🙂
opaque parrot
As long as things have a perceived cost it's economics. In a game funded by micro-transactions and takes efforts to unlock things you cannot avoid it
viscid dragon
@opaque parrot Seeing friends as currency machines is a big problem that TGC wants to address, is what I’m saying. If you look at the changes in light of that, I think it will make more sense. It’s not about making scamming easier or harder, because friends don’t scam each other. Do you feel scammed when you share something with a friend and they don’t reciprocate?
winged jacinth
If they balance this minor inconvenience by giving 1-2 extra candles from runs. Or set a statue somewhere that gives you a heart a day. Would be great. Or an npc which restocks daily on hearts
pale berry
About the heart trading, I mailed TGC by the beta feedback.
From what I know there should have not been made any change in the gifting a friend system. What happens when you try to gift your friend? I will mention that you need to offer 3 candles in order for them to transform into a heart, just want to make sure that you are aware of this.
I got this reply
I sent them a screenshot and maybe I'll get an exact answer.
spark lance
The only change here is constellation-based Heart gifting now must have Hug unlocked to work, just like for in-person.
pale berry
yea I was talkin abt the constellation based gifting
spark lance
@viscid dragon Friends wouldn't be currency machines if they balanced the economy correctly with actual rewarding game mechanics and not treating this game like you would if you took your kid to the park.
Most gamers like gaming with a mixture of grind and social aspects.
This game is just grinding, with paid chatting.
and no reward, except faster cape recharge for social interaction.
We go from how can TGC do this to us, cosmetics cost so much now, to there's "no reward, except faster cape recharge for social interaction", this game is so boring? 🤔
I don't think anyone said the game was boring and no rewards.
Rewards are definitely there,.
They just take ages to get.
winged jacinth
Well this game may cultivate some patience
There are 3 heart capes and haicuts why not
opaque parrot
What you call patience is equivalent to more micro-transaction payments
winged jacinth
I haven’t paid a dime yet i have enough on myself to be happy
spark lance
Actually, no, because you can't buy hearts. Patience is required just to "micro-transact".
opaque parrot
But you can't get hearts without candles, and you can buy candles
winged jacinth
I think the purpose of “micro transactions” is for those who are inpatient and want everything here and now for a buck
spark lance
You can't make candles into hearts without patience, because it's a max of 1 per day, was my point.
opaque parrot
but when you can have 80+ friends the primary bottleneck becomes candles, not hearts
spark lance
That still doesn't make candles "equivalent" to microtransactions; patience is still required.
opaque parrot
No, it's a correlation between the cost of items and micro-transaction sales
spark lance
@winged jacinth 's point was that's only as true as each player makes it for themselves.
winged jacinth
I have got total randos which are fine to unlock things in friendship, carry me at benches for a chat, and give hearts for no reason or obligations. Isnt this the whole point of the game?
And friends still light your candles, thus contribute to your heart grind thingy
opaque parrot
The point of the game is what you make if it
celest sundial
My first time through I added tons of friends because I had no idea what else candles could be used for.
winged jacinth
And lets not forget the MVPs who take you by hand and do a full wax run while you just chill
spark lance
@opaque parrot What each player makes of it for themselves. I certainly don't make complaining and economics the point of it for myself.
winged jacinth
Would definitely open hug to those dudes. And here it is one loyal heart trading dude right here
opaque parrot
All I'm saying is this change will directly correlate into an increase in money that TGC makes, and that we as the player base should take any such change with a grain of salt to ensure they're making changes in the game's and the player's best interest, and not just for financial gain or with the guise of an anti-scam/harassment change or with no proof that it will fix the problem.
I would't be here I didn't love the game and all my friends I made along the way. I'm just here to foster discussion because I want game to be the best it can be.
stoic badger
@winged jacinth +1, a few days ago i met someone who made a table bridge for people in Eden and after hanging out with them for a while non-verbally they just unlocked a lot of the friendship tree and gifted me a heart right there. Later i repaid the favour by unlocking chat and we talked for a while at their bridge, was delightful :)
frigid shadow
awwwe that's sweet ;o;
stoic badger
@opaque parrot The creative director and other key staff have been pretty clear that the game’s micro-transactions like every other aspect of the game are driven by their core values and the values they want to imbue the game with, because like everything else the micro-transactions play a part in someone’s emotional response which is an aspect of design most developers do not treat holistically.
There’s a reason you can’t buy cosmetics with money, and there’s a reason they’re going to continuing developing their in-game economy - hearts were never designed to be transactional.
spark lance
I'm not sure that argument holds water because nothing stops anyone from simply grinding candles to unlock constellation heart gifting instead of paying to do that, anymore than anything else candles could ever buy. By your argumentation, you should be calling for an end to requiring Hug for in-person Heart gifting.
winged jacinth
@opaque parrot And you cannot accept the fact that we already told you that hearts have nothing to do with micro-transactions and how much money the studio makes.
You can sell your house and give all your friends hearts. Youll be great. But what the next day? No money. Not all friends gave you hearts in return, you cry cry
stoic badger
@frigid shadow One of my favourite moments so far, i’ve enjoyed moving from grinding candles to doing things socially with friends now that i’ve made a bunch of friends in various timezones.
winged jacinth
So me and @spark lance said that you need patience in any case. Is that right?
steep crystal
Only read bits and pieces of the discussion, but let’s let beta do what it does and we will see how the new changes are. Beta is made for testing and feedback, so let’s see how it effects peeps!!!
frigid shadow
@stoic badger now I wanna make table bridges 😤
stoic badger
@frigid shadow It made me want a table so bad, still putting hearts away for the last seasonal cosmetic </3
frigid shadow
good luck! :O
winged jacinth
Yep. And as i understand. Beta testers dont have access to in app purchases. So they will make the most objective point about it
stoic badger
If you open the shop in beta it’s just empty
opaque parrot
But beta testers are also more likely to be savvy experienced players. How can they test anti-scam/harassment changes when they're fully aware of the game's mechanics and less likely to fall for such trickery?
steep crystal
I don’t understand that questioning. You said they are more experienced and less likely to fall for trickery, but also asked how they can test anti-scam/harassment changes... could you explain?
lusty light
Well there are gonna be new beta testers in about a week
winged jacinth
We also are aware of game mechanics, 3candles equals a heart duh
You feel scammed and harassed ? I dont
steep crystal
Right, new and old so you could get a wide breadth of opinions and ideas
opaque parrot
Aren't all the beta testers sourced from discord and the testflight group @lusty light ? It's only the dedicated and experienced players that take the time to come here
Exactly @winged jacinth ! The change isn't designed for people like you and me, it's designed for the casual and new players who don't know a lot about the game and can be taken advantage of!
lusty light
There are a ton of new players in this discord server?
winged jacinth
I think i read something between the lines sounding like, “invite anyone who would want to participate in beta”
Doesnt sound like a wave of pros coming
Nope. I was wrong. Nvm
lusty light
No you are right
spark lance
@opaque parrot Even with that as your primary aim, better explanation would IMO be a better solution than disjointing the social aspects of the game in favor of economic priorities, particularly for an activity not germane to the game's intended use case anyway.
winged jacinth
I am not sure tho
lusty light
Anyone can join the beta if they want
I mean, the beta testers were newbies at one point too
opaque parrot
But compared to the hundreds of thousands of players who play sky only a tiny fraction end up here. And each of those people needs to be invested enough in the game to even take the effort to make the leap
lusty light
There’s a hard cap on the amount of beta testers there can be to begin with
They used to send out beta invites via newsletter
But there are over 60k people signed up
And only 7k slots
steep crystal
i mean i think just having this discussion right here and now shows how different the beta player’s experiences can be and what we can gain from that
we will figure out what works and doesnt work... trust the process haha
spark lance
@opaque parrot People getting scammed trying to abuse the game w/ H4H is awfully hard to feel sympathetic toward.
winged jacinth
I think they are just same dudes like us and will do their best to pass feedback of something working right or not really. We have to wait and end the theories when nothing really happened so far
opaque parrot
@spark lance I'm not sympathizing with them. I'm simply concerned that this may not be an adequate solution to the problem, nor an adequate means of testing the solution
spark lance
@opaque parrot I fully agree Hug for Constellation Hearts won't necessarily completely stop H4H/account bloat, but arguing against it on the basis of scammers' scamming those who are looking to abuse mechanics is pretty beyond the pale, in my book.
opaque parrot
I'm sorry, I think we've lost each other at some point @spark lance.
Can you define H4H?
Oh heat for heat, right?
opaque parrot
Whoops yeah 😜
I'm trying to make sure I've got my facts strait here. I was under the assumption that the hug-for-hearts change was primarily to create a greater barrier for scammers, harassers and bloat account users to overcome. Is that correct?
spark lance
I can't speculate on TGC's exact motives, but I think that's among its primary effects. In fact, it's likeliest to have been an oversight, since in-person gifting required a Hug all along.
opaque parrot
it's likeliest to have been an oversight, since in-person gifting required a Hug all along
Oh interesting I didn't think of that
spark lance
Many pounced on it as an opportunity to abuse the mechanics as an economic advantage, unfortunately. I won't mention further specifics as discussion of that subject matter is against this server's rules for obvious reasons.
opaque parrot
Understood
spark lance
The game fundamentals have never changed: friendship, generosity, empathy
violet arrow
Why make it easy to exclude ppl then
With this new update
Because then ppl will form small groups that have hug unlocked already because trading new people will be more expensive, resulting in small cliques that exclude trading with outsiders 🤷♂️
spark lance
yes, the game fundamentals haven't changed
^^
you're also just catering to people who only care about those aspects at this point
violet arrow
Also why not add new content instead of spending time on this “problem”
There’s no point in making friends if there is nothing fun to do
And if cosmetics are getting harder to reach
spark lance
i was thinking maybe randomized content
so they don't need to actually make new content everytime
they can just make the randomization do it for them
More than anything, I believe and will always believe in TGC's vision
violet arrow
Wdym by randomized
violet arrow
So does everyone Dune
spark lance
make variations of levels
violet arrow
But this ain’t tgc vision
spark lance
randomize them
the unfortunate thing about a social game is that a lot of people are antisocial
violet arrow
Looks to me like they trying to make more money
By making it harder to trade hearts
But in reality they screwing over their paying fan base
spark lance
imo season pass only viable iap
maybe it's because seasons give too many easy candles
violet arrow
True
placid kiln
you already can only receive one heart from a person per day, and the cheapest cosmetics are 3-5 hearts. so unless you have just tons of friends who wanna send you a heart every day its already difficult to get things so idk why they need to make it harder
spark lance
that sounds like making cliques to solve a problem
violet arrow
Exactly
Which is against tgc’s vision
Of an inclusive and friendly community
Just so they can make a few extra $
spark lance
i think their intentions were to remove heart trading
little did they know was that a lot of people do it and they're actually messing up with a culture
violet arrow
And then what you’re only able to have the 37ish candles from the spirits
placid kiln
i imagine this will leave new people out because people will only trade hearts with people theyve already unlocked hug with, instead of spending candles on new people
spark lance
^^
violet arrow
Yes
This will create established trading groups that won’t trade with new players or outsiders
placid kiln
unless people are very desperate theyll say hey these cosmetics arent going anywhere why do i need to rush and waste candles
spark lance
and for anyone saying that it'll force people to do it the old fashioned way
you forgot that that form of getting hearts is fairly unstable
sure there are scammers
placid kiln
what way? spending money?
strange patrol
I don't even see why someone else having more cosmetics than you is a bad thing lol, it has nothing to do with gameplay and especially your own gameplay
violet arrow
And I know for a fact that if someone new asks me to trade after the update I will say hell no im not wasting no candles, they’re hard enough to get anyways
spark lance
@strange patrol it's the principle that hearts are now harder to obtain
strange patrol
when I say you I am not meaning it towards anyone
violet arrow
It’s not about cosmetics
spark lance
it's the principle of it
strange patrol
no I know, I find it weird to make it so you have to hug to trade hearts
violet arrow
But the point of the game is simply to make friends and gain cosmetics over time
And this messes with the vision
placid kiln
heart trading leads to friendships, considering you have to add then to trade. make it more difficult and no one will care about making new friends
violet arrow
Yes there will be established cliques instead of people looking to expand their friends to trade
spark lance
mhmm
violet arrow
Nobody will want to make new friends if it costs currency that is becoming harder to gain
strange patrol
I think I suck at explaining things
placid kiln
🤑🤑🤑
spark lance
@strange patrol you think that cosmetics don't matter right
well technically
they don't
strange patrol
I didn't say that lol
spark lance
ah
placid kiln
whatre u tryin to say
wraith yacht
Cosmetics give no one an advantage over you
spark lance
well how about you give us your opinion
@wraith yacht they kinda get free clout lol
more respect
wraith yacht
Waah waah
spark lance
at least as what i have seen
wraith yacht
They spent money, so what
violet arrow
Huh
strange patrol
so idk why people are upset that people trade for hearts
placid kiln
its just the fact that they wanna make it even harder to get these cosmetics that they flaunt
strange patrol
when it doesn't effect them
placid kiln
wha
spark lance
Hmm
Imagine you apply for a job that's quite educational/degree heavy.
then someone who failed school, has no paper, gets the job.
So you're both working there
I believe people will be generous to their existing friends and also make new ones.
placid kiln
no one is upset that people trade for hearts people are upset that theyre tryin to make trading harder
spark lance
There would be some resentment in the fact how he got there.
strange patrol
I saw someone earlier say they have no sympathy for those who trade hearts
spark lance
generous when the grind is absolutely real
strange patrol
that's what im talking about
wraith yacht
Tbh i'm gonna keep trading with the same 4 friends daily till i need to make more friends
Lmfao
placid kiln
oh well thats kinda the point of hearts is to send them to people
spark lance
you're messing with heart trading in its core
you're forcing those heart traders to make cliques
opaque parrot
Organizing my thoughts is taking much longer than I originally anticipated. I'll have to take more time offline to better articulate my arguments. I would like to thank all of you for the great discussions so far though!
spark lance
i've done the math, and dang did the amount of candles needed for doing constellations increased
at least the range
wraith yacht
2,292 candles -> 3,948
spark lance
@wraith yacht i did that math lol
violet arrow
TGC has a vision for sky to be a game about gaining cosmetics and gaining friends to help you get those cosmetics, because what is the point of playing over and over and over again for no reason? The motivation is cosmetics and friends are a means to this goal. That is the reason that this game is so friendly, because many parts require help from friends, but this update will only be doing the opposite of what TGC’s visions of sky are. By making players require hug to do trades, there will be exclusionary groups within communities that will make it hard for new players to trade and make friends, because why spend currency that is already hard to get on a new friend when you can trade for cheaper with the old friends!? TGC is becoming money hungry and right now all I can see is that $ is their new incentive and not their proclaimed “vision” for sky
spark lance
you want the equation for it
wraith yacht
Card dealer ur the man
strange patrol
All I'm trying to say is in response to "People getting scammed trying to abuse the game w/ H4H is awfully hard to feel sympathetic toward." is that heart for heart is not abusing the game
spark lance
a too long; didn't read
violet arrow
F
spark lance
@strange patrol not everyone is a scammer
strange patrol
jghkjdghkedfa
placid kiln
no
spark lance
He was responding to that claim, benji
strange patrol
haha
placid kiln
shes saying its irrational to say thwyre scammers
spark lance
i small brain
strange patrol
big braaaain
spark lance
We have 800 people in our server that have done many, many trades - must be in the 1.5k+
Only had 1 case of scamming.
wraith yacht
🔻 
spark lance
And it was dealt with
violet arrow
Only 1 scam
placid kiln
we were confused bc we didnt realize u were replying to someone else from before
strange patrol
basically, i dont see trading hearts as abuse, and i dont see why people think that
because cosmetics doesn't impact gameplay
spark lance
One guy even has 390 karma
placid kiln
big dum
spark lance
😂
violet arrow
Milk u agree with everyone and everyone agrees with u
strange patrol
thank u
strange patrol
i dont want to be bad guy
violet arrow
Except for TGC
spark lance
yep
lusty light
@violet arrow no profanity
spark lance
i only have like 30 lol
dire escarp
My thoughts on it from the stream was "allow players actively in a world playing to trade hearts cheaper"
E. G. Allow players to trade a heart with others around for only 1 candle or maybe free if they both got a star/spirit together
spark lance
@strange patrol H4H by definition is not friendship-based but commodity-based trades. So although the term is just H4H, it refers specifically to abuse of that mechanic. Normal heart gifting is just that, not H4H, because there's not the motivation to get one back that drives it, it's given instead out of goodwill.
strange patrol
i probably should have mentioned what i was responding to in the first place, im dumb dumb
spark lance
@spark lance Both can form and aren't mutually exclusive or ensured.
strange patrol
but you have to become friends to trade
dire escarp
Maybe a "busking trade" if someone is playing an instrument, others can gift hearts to them more cheaply etc.
spark lance
Friendly trades can be exclusive trades once and then never play again, just like exclusive trades can become friendships.
wraith yacht
Actually H4H got me more actual friends than just adding randoms
strange patrol
same
spark lance
my first heart trader sent hearts at me by random
wraith yacht
Greg is an angel
strange patrol
o yes greg
spark lance
greg too op
wraith yacht
Greg 
violet arrow
I’ve blocked all my friends that I don’t trade with
placid kiln
when adding random people i would never spend my candles to send a rando a heart unless i really got to know them
violet arrow
My friends are to gain hearts or people that I actually enjoy playing with
strange patrol
i wish that you could defriend without blocking, there's no friendliness in having to block
violet arrow
Yes true
wraith yacht
If u add someone with qr to trade, you already are able to talk without spending candles, so it's fantastic to get to know people
Our points are godly
strange patrol
yeah you'll have to spend more candles to be able to speak to them
and sometimes it ends up they speak another language
spark lance
People acting like H4H is the black market and selling organs or something.
strange patrol
omg
spark lance
Some great friendships can be made, trust me.
placid kiln
its so difficult to discuss heart trading with friends unless one of you is rich and has a table
violet arrow
My best friends I met thru heart trade communities
Friends I made thru other means all quit the game or I blocked
Also I would like an unfriend option to be included because permanent block is a little aggressive
spark lance
lol
strange patrol
when u see them grey and still haven't collected your wax in a while 💔
spark lance
a perma block is definitely how tgc rolls man
we don't like heart trading
but we really like them perma blocks
placid kiln
why is it a bad thing that people use h4h anyways? even if its purely to gain hearts? people will do this no matter what, people want to gain cosmetics and will do whatever they can to get them if they realy want em
strange patrol
ye
violet arrow
I would like someone who has actual insight into TGC to explain to me the mindset behind this update
spark lance
have i mentioned that messing up the heart ratio also screws up the amount of candles needed for constellations
placid kiln
this 100% sounds like just a plan to get people to spend more money
violet arrow
Facts
spark lance
@violet arrow they don't like scammers. they don't like heart trading. therefore, we nerf heart trading.
ez
placid kiln
either buy more candles to unlock hug ior skip the process and just buy hearts
violet arrow
The thousands of trades that have been made in a certain discord server with only a SINGLE case of scamming?
AND
spark lance
*as far as we know
violet arrow
if they think it’s a scam
placid kiln
this would leave out people who dont have the money to spend, making the fun of cosmetics seem impossible to reach
spark lance
also before someone says cosmetics =/= gameplay
violet arrow
If TGC has a vision of hearts being s gift rather than a trade, why call it a scam? They’re contradicting themselves!!
spark lance
technically yes
but actually no
without a goal
there's no point in playing the game
cosmetics give this goal
violet arrow
Yes
placid kiln
obviously you can play the game entirely without cosmetics but it adds to the entire vibe
violet arrow
Friends are a means to get to this goal
Ok
If there were no cosmetics
How many times would u run thru sky
spark lance
none
violet arrow
For me, maximum of 1 time
strange patrol
multiple bc thats how journey was haha
violet arrow
I’ve never heard of journey
strange patrol
whaat
spark lance
you've never played tuber sim
wraith yacht
lol
dire escarp
Or flower
violet arrow
Huh
strange patrol
lmao
wraith yacht
Found the pewdiepie fan
violet arrow
??
wraith yacht
easiest way to weed 'em out
strange patrol
it a joke
spark lance
and that's a great price biscuit
placid kiln
i wouldve stopped playing a long time ago if there werent things to unlock, i mean the game is aesthetically pleasing but without any goals it would run dry
i think people would keep the app for about a month tops
spark lance
might i also add that the candle grind takes a lil over an hour
violet arrow
True
strange patrol
journey is the other game they made that inspired sky
spark lance
@wraith yacht it's part of the pewdiepie ad w/ the tuber sim thing
strange patrol
and it was fantastic
wraith yacht
Oooh
spark lance
speaking of journey
placid kiln
u played urself
spark lance
speedrunning wasn't in the core of the game
speedrunning is also frowned upon by some
violet arrow
Currently 1 hour = maybe 3-4 hearts, after the update 1 hour = 1 heart with a new friend, or 3-4 with the same group of friends. What would you choose?
spark lance
yet
strange patrol
i loved its story
spark lance
nothing hurt that community
placid kiln
if sky has a story its hard to understand
spark lance
competitive smash bros was never in its core originally
was it discouraged
no
in fact if anything it became better
this seems like it's discouraging competitive sky players
and heart trading is one of those aspects that can be used competitively
spark lance
Making changes to your game based on how you think they should play is what causes a game to plummet into nothingness.
Last Year..
Anthem...
No Mans
frigid shadow
It's also supposed to represent the 7 stages of life
dire escarp
Very similar with cloud, flower and journey story wise
spark lance
Even ESO had extreme policies against adding an LFG tool or fixing their busted group finder
fricked itself up by ruining the lore community
however, they changed that attitude after a year and a bit
and queues were popping at like 5am my time
1 simple tool, an LFG.
violet arrow
Yes why not listen to the community and make 1) candles easier 2) more content and 3) less bugs and glitches instead of trying to screw over your income source
dire escarp
Worked so well for no man sky...
violet arrow
Yesss
shut aurora
I don't think candles should be easier to get, but maybe more variety or ability to get more each day. I get bored going to the same places day in and day out
spark lance
^^
shut aurora
Yeah true
violet arrow
I don’t care if it’s made easier or not but they SHOULDNT be made harder
spark lance
although personaly
i would like an easier way to grind candles
since it takes like 2h
or smth
maybe a harder map but with lots of candles
that takes shorter time
shut aurora
Yeah I would like a challenge but the output of candles being more
Cause right now there isn't really a challenge to getting most candles, it's just time consuming
spark lance
mhmm
you have god players who know how to grind candles and move quickly
yet the margin of time needed to get the amount is only a gap by few minutes
it doesn't matter if you're good
it only matters how much time you have
shut aurora
Yeah if I can sit for a good amount of time I have memorized all the places of wax. Still takes forever. But I work full time so I rarely can do every area
spark lance
i have school and the internet sucks here
i can only go on about 30 mins
and i only have time for a few candles
if i'm quick with the seasonals
lone olive
lol so TGC's response to people complaining about how screwed the heart economy is, is to make them harder to get?
I've already been demotivated to play this game but if these changes go through it'll be very easy to step away entirely.
spark lance
@placid kiln demonstrates things well:
^
when adding random people i would never spend my candles to send a rando a heart unless i really got to know them
^
This, I think, is TGC's vision. Hearts failing to reward faster trades is not their aim to avoid, and it doesn't need to be for their game to succeed. Not every game has to be AAA or dominate anything. More importantly is that it may need to avoid rewarding shorter-term trades in order for the community it seeks to build to develop.
spark lance
We differ in our definitions of "almost impossible", I would imagine.
placid kiln
unless one of you owns a table or you happen to find a bench you cant communicate
lone olive
This game's starting to unravel by the week, especially with TGC's awful decisions lmao