Streams

[grizzled plume]

About a year and a half ago got banned on reddit for expressing that theres not even a slight moderation of people who are very vocal about their favorite twin.

Kept watching for a while by trying to ignore even chat messages on stream, but still kept being mad and upset about how much there were of them that just straight up disrespecting a thing enjoy watching and growing, so i stopped watching streams all together.

Last week started watching a bit of clips again and it seems the situation is still the same as it was 2 years ago.

Is this still keep happening or people just started not giving a fuck?

[jade nacelle]

Unfortunately it hasn't really improved at all. In fact, I'd say it's even worse now. It annoys me to no end too but vedal doesn't seem interested in stomping out that kind of behavior at all. Tribalism is at an all time high and the lack of voice upgrades definitely isn't doing Neuro any favors. I do hope you'll stick around and support Neuro because lord knows she needs it

[unique frost]

this thread gonna cause a flame war 100%

[grand flume]

Is this even allowed

I thought threads were supposed to be aimed at Vedal or something similar

[unique frost]

is that why the pixel placing threads are always at the top

[grand flume]

I don't know about that one but this one is marked as question

[unique frost]

I mean it is a question

[grand flume]

Question threads are supposed to be aimed towards Veebs

Because if it's aimed at the community then it could be asked on NN

[unique frost]

why can't it be aimed at vedal, it's his community

[grand flume]

I don't think it's aimed at Vedal

[unique frost]

how do you determine that though

[pastel ridge]

With a question like that he will just get dogpiled in NN let's be real
Anyways this is still directed at vedal cause it's his community

[astral knot]

why did you guys migrate into here?

[burnt shard]

discussion isnt just for vedal. its for community things too. ARG, Melba, Pixels.

i dont see why this wouldnt be something vedal can see tbf. theres quite a few things which are concerning about the community which have been spoken about in discussion threads in the past

[chilly dawn]

Seems more like a mod issue

[burnt shard]

mods dont moderate something vedal doesnt tell them to

cant blame mods for a rule which doesnt exist tbf

[pastel ridge]

Mods dont do anything without his permission

[viral yoke]

I wouldn't say the tribalism is much worse than what it was in 2023/2024

[fallow coral]

community projects go here #1336777692070023271

[unique frost]

he doesn't seem very involved in mod decisions tbh

[burnt shard]

thats why theres those things i mentioned in discussion

[fallow coral]

these threads were made before #1336777692070023271 was made

[burnt shard]

no they werent

either way this thread isnt a project? its a discussion

[pastel ridge]

Anyways to answer the question it's still the same and won't ever change 👍

[viral yoke]

Topic people. topic.

[burnt shard]

and i dont see why people shading community concerns wouldnt be something vedal can look at

[unique frost]

neither the mods nor vedal have really done anything about this stuff and I don't see why they would tbh

[burnt shard]

there have been some really parasocial people etc and i think it can stem from there being "this twins better" discussion being so normalised and such

[azure niche]

really don't think it is that big of a problem right now, youtube comments and reddit will always be stupid

[unique frost]

tribalism sucks but it's just something that's gonna happen

[burnt shard]

its not really just there tbf. its in streams too. if a twin calls the other twin on their day chat often spam to hang up

i do get the concern tbf, i think it is not really a vibe if you enjoy both of the twins and people are talking about how they really like one more than the other etc. it just ruins the mood

[azure niche]

I also dislike when people discourage twin content, but then again, vedal himself said he thinks it's not great right now

[idle walrus]

Imo it's just the parasocial that's fucking arguing like their life depends on it on who twin is better

[idle walrus]

True, I don't think I've seen that much

[burnt shard]

but theres no rule saying that counts as being parasocial, cuz by definition its not to say one is better than the other, but its a real huge mood ruiner imo

[grand flume]

ARG, Melba and Pixels precede #1336777692070023271 so those are fine I think

[idle walrus]

I hate it too but I just complain one time and my anger is gone

[burnt shard]

and it always comes back around to the "they are not real" at the end of the day. they do not care if you think one is better than the other cuz theyre not real.... but people who are a fan of both really dont wanna hear that kind of thing and people forget the viewers do in fact have feelings and are real, unlike the twins

main issue

[fallow coral]

yep

[idle walrus]

It's just a stupid argument at the end of the day

Watch what you like, but if you keeps parading that the other is better then that's cringe imo (is talking to those people that keeps arguing who is better)

[unique frost]

tbh the arg and the pixels really should have their own channel but off topic

[azure niche]

the one thing they should ban is people telling one of the twins in highlights they like the other more

[idle walrus]

Imo just Timeout them for a day

[pastel ridge]

It's not a ban when the ones responsible for managing this community low-key agree with the "this twin is better than the other twin" statement

[idle walrus]

Or more if they kept doing it

[burnt shard]

it is but you wont ever win against them cuz the rules arent against it, if they allow for twinship and such, then they dont care to disallow you putting them against eachother. the argument always is "they arent real" in the end and so anything goes. the discord server is 13+ which imo is the only reason why not anything goes

[idle walrus]

At the end of the day I have something more to worry about than argue who is better people just have too much time in their hands

[viral yoke]

Again, I personally think the tribalism more or less balanced itself out throughout the years
And mind you I myself was an evil hater at a point

I would say the issues are appearing OUTSIDE of twins, but that's a whole another topic

[burnt shard]

sad times, i just remove all channels i can experience these things and dont bother reading twitch chat on chill streams

its kinda the only way you can avoid it and even then i still see it often. i doubt they would try and moderate anything new it seems like no new rules have been implemented over a long time and it gets harder to the longer its left

[grand flume]

Yeah, it certainly has died down imo

[light lichen]

tribalism was bound to happen as soon as two were introduced

[viral yoke]

It still happens, but nothing you can really do

[light lichen]

though the toxicity over it not being regulated is really surprising

one of the things that has bugged me minorly over the years

[grand flume]

If there was a point where it needed to be acted upon, we're past it as it has sorted itself out to some degree

[burnt shard]

i dont really think so theres the "evilists" who honestly i think got worse as a thing over time 😭 having a dedicated name for people who like 1 twin more than the other is just weird in its own sense tbf

cuz it encourages the behaviour

[viral yoke]

I mean we get that name for all 3 groups

[burnt shard]

i havent heard the others 💀

[late pollen]

4 groups.

[viral yoke]

With veedlets being the most looked down upon

[burnt shard]

im ngl i never heard that before 😭

[idle walrus]

The vedling

[light lichen]

maybe in the discord it has but I've seen some pretty... interesting comments, shall we say, in youtube & reddit sections still

[burnt shard]

prob cuz i avoid all these channels where people act like this but eh

[grand flume]

That's yt for you

[burnt shard]

even still, moderation on it would be nice

[grand flume]

They're meaningless and loud aka mosquitos

[azure niche]

when we give thought to what people on reddit say we can close down everything anyway

[grand flume]

Don't pay them any mind

[idle walrus]

I don't red YouTube and reddict comment that much so I guess that's why I don't have the same info as yall

[viral yoke]

Then you haven't been in NN enough

But yeah, as evilists came to be, so different name for other groups and stereotypes that go with it

[burnt shard]

yes i have that channel completely removed from my list cuz i refuse to read it. its just a toxic horrid chat tbf from what i know

[idle walrus]

I don't think so

[pastel ridge]

Because most of them left for the same reason you complain about

[grand flume]

Give it a try

[burnt shard]

no thanks

[idle walrus]

Just don't get ragebaited easy

[grand flume]

Just don't read it after streams, it gets hectic for some reason

[light lichen]

valid reaction

[burnt shard]

ragebait is just upsetting people for fun which is just bullying tbf

im good

either way moderation prob wont change but it should

putting people above eachother is messed up and creates awkward situations for people who dont agree. a split community causes more issues, snowball

[light lichen]

I think some light moderation should be in ordeer at the very least (i.e. not allowing flame wars to happen over "nuroists" vs "evilists")

[pastel ridge]

Anyways if you want to watch Neuro without any negativity or whatever the best thing you can do is ignore clips, ignore NN, ignore reddit and skip chill streams

[idle walrus]

NN is not really ragebaiting everyday though, well for me they just argue after every streams and after that it goes down

[burnt shard]

but as a fan of someone you shouldn't have to avoid so many things just to enjoy it, it should be moderated

[idle walrus]

Man I don't really understand NN hate

[burnt shard]

how fun

sounds exhausting

[idle walrus]

I love reading, (cuz I don't even know what the fuck they are talking 20% of the time)

[burnt shard]

i read chats where that doesnt happen :Tf

[light lichen]

👆 especially when they supposedly pride themselves on being fans of the channel for the AIs

[idle walrus]

That's kinda... Cringe

[viral yoke]

I mean it can be a shithole at times
But it is probably most diverse and dedicated chunk of the community, for better or for worse

[burnt shard]

introducing people to this community is just "dont look in here or at this and avoid this and dont do that and -" its just you shouldnt have to do all that tbf

[idle walrus]

We need the evil if we want a balanced community

[pastel ridge]

I agree but sadly it's just the way it is

[idle walrus]

Being only a yes man is gonna lead to it's destruction

[burnt shard]

ive honestly never seen it as bad as in this community before

[idle walrus]

YouTube and reddit? If your talking about discord I think they do enough imo idk about the other though

[burnt shard]

i dont use reddit and i watch every stream so i dont use youtube but on the rare occasion ive looked at the stuff the comments are complete ass

[pastel ridge]

At some point you just get used to Neuro being the punching bag of this community

[idle walrus]

Ye I got to an argument once on a yt comment

[idle walrus]

My favorite clanker

[burnt shard]

i tried defending something before and got attacked so i just deleted my comment never again

[idle walrus]

Oh I saw people defending vedal on its okay to being ...(I forgot the word )

[broken gust]

Imo avoiding things YOU personally find take away from your enjoyment are NOT a moderation topic
thats a self control topic
if you cant handle them, you shouldnt be placing yourself in situations to see them
now things that are actual moderation issues, such as gratuitous aggression, slurs and personal attacks are very serious and are for the most part pretty solidly moderated, at least here on the discord
things like tribalism and such are (while extremely annoying, esp to me) not things Mods should need to bother with, unless the scenario has gone so far as to breach the actual mod issues

thats my two cents at least

TL;DR it sucks but its not a moderation topic

[grand flume]

British

[idle walrus]

Thanks umbrella you have the brain to say the things I do agree but can't put it in words

Same with the turtle guy I for got the name of

(not vedal)

[grand flume]

Czadmy?

[idle walrus]

I think so

I forgor

[grand flume]

Czadymny

[glacial python]

Rat

[grand flume]

No

[broken gust]

yeah I think we all just need to remember that you dont NEED to be part of the community forums and stuff to be a fan or to enjoy the streams

if the vibes here are off for you
just dont be here
its okay, nobody is gonna be mad (and even if they are, you cant see them!!!)

[viral yoke]

like again, nowadays it's nowhere that bad of an issue
Where meanwhile if im not wrong there is actually more moderation regarding neuroverse messages etc on stream
Cuz that one needed moderaion

[broken gust]

I wish everyone could always be around
but some things cross the line for some people
and if we tried to moderate on every issue like that
this would be a police state

[idle walrus]

Yea that's why I don't really mind cuz if it's goes too far the mods esp here will step up and put a stop to it, even purging the channel if it needs to

[broken gust]

but to clarify again
this was originally a reddit topic methinks?
and I have NO idea how the moderation works there so
idfk

[idle walrus]

Yea off topic but , this example : I can say I'm a fan of something but I don't really jell in their community so I just dont go there

[late pollen]

Well I agree with you don’t need to be a part of the community.
however some people do it on stream and that’s is something that is hard to avoid, since your more than likely going to watch that most of the time

[broken gust]

thats true
but I think its way more minor than OP presents it to be
tho that is my perspective

[idle walrus]

Unlucky is the only word my brain put together with that statement

[burnt shard]

but when it invades so many spaces in the communtiy it gets hard to avoid it when youre a big fan. having to avoid reddit and youtube as well as chill streams sometimes is just a lot of the community you have to avoid honestly. even a bit of moderation can make it a better experience

[idle walrus]

Highlight begging is annoying for sure for sure

I don't even watch that much chill too

[broken gust]

again, I dont mean to sound harsh
but just dont read reddit or youtube comments?

the stream is the stream
you dont need to go to these external communities if they are annoying you

[viral yoke]

basically every gacha game

[burnt shard]

i do avoid places but i still see it quite often, even in discord its present a lot of the time

[broken gust]

yeah highlight begging is an issue but IMO its not worth being that upset over
but the take is valid

[idle walrus]

Unlucky enough to see one person yapping on twitch chat and it made them upset is what I'm translating but I dunno

[broken gust]

nah its definitely a cumulative thing
but I just think the second you find yourself feeling that anger or annoyance

take a break
like I really hope Neuro is not the only entertainment you have in your life
a week off isnt gonna kill you
and you'll feel SOOOOO MUCH BETTER afterwards

a lot of people think they have to be IN THE LOOP all the time to be a fan

you really dont

[idle walrus]

I remember that one time I got genuinely angry and didn't get to enjoy the colorfull aray reveal when I read someone say it's not that good

[broken gust]

its okay to do whats best for your mind

[idle walrus]

I do have some sentiments

And I understand the anger

[viral yoke]

This one might be a little far-reaching
but I dare say i could draw comparison with twinship a little

It was already moderated a bunch, and now is nowhere as big as in back of 2023
So banning it now feels oppresive if anything, rather than solving any actual issues

[broken vapor]

i've been part of communities where it's so much worse than this

[burnt shard]

theres always going to be really big fans of things so there will always be people who have it as a lot of their free time and life, and AI vtubers arent really widespread and seen as positive in a lot of spaces so people who enjoy the twins want to speak to likeminded people

[idle walrus]

That's why I don't go to reddit that much anymore people there is something

[broken vapor]

but i do hate when people say one twin is better than the other

[idle walrus]

Twinship afaik is already super moderated there

[burnt shard]

its not really that moderated, its allowed

[idle walrus]

If people are not being obnoxious about it I don't really mind

I just laugh it off

[idle walrus]

My art got deleted so idk

[broken gust]

sure

but they should be ALLOWED to say that
thats flippin free speech baby

[broken vapor]

on reddit, no it's not, they banned it outright. there was a lot of pushback for it and when it got ignored, the reddit became way less active.

[pastel ridge]

I don't care what people in NN say about Neuro they just repeat the same shit everyday like NPCs
Same with clip comments
My problem is what happens on stream

[idle walrus]

See the subreddit got less active probably better imo

[broken gust]

agreed but thats a completely different issue outside this discussion post

beyond the scope here

[burnt shard]

surprising since its allowed in discord tbf

[broken vapor]

wasn't just by a small bit either, it became way less active and seemed to get more off-topic there too

[broken gust]

completely seperate moderation teams

the reddit is a police state compared to the discord

[idle walrus]

Good, let it die reddit is a cesspool

[burnt shard]

apart from posting AI art

[broken vapor]

it's like all the same mods except for one tbf

anyways this is getting off topic

[broken gust]

agreed

[viral yoke]

or nere

[burnt shard]

welp i doubt anything will be done with this issue sadly so

[broken gust]

again
I just dont think this is an issue ngl

apart from the content on streams

[viral yoke]

I could see maybe "Evil/Neuro is better than you" messages being banned off-stream, but only that and nothing more cuz

1. Why would you say that that
2. banning it anywhere else would just be going against free speech

[burnt shard]

making a space better for everyone is never a bad thing. if the twins were real people it would be really frowned upon and not allowed. you can be a fan of someone for being a certain personality but saying theyre better than the other person is just messed up. but again cuz twins are not real people i doubt they care. forgetting it effects people who witness it

[broken gust]

but its not making it better?
by banning what people can say they like is not making it more inclusive its just kicking out certain groups

[idle walrus]

I can't argue with you as I'm not linguistic enough but saying making a space for everyone is not really good in other spaces

[burnt shard]

its just negative. saying someone is better than the other isnt nice to see if you like both people. its awkward and uncomfortable. people wanting a neutral space isnt a bad idea to forward

[idle walrus]

So I disagree

[idle walrus]

Now that I agree

[viral yoke]

as they say "Appealing to everyone is appealing to no one"
Banning very specific topics for the sake of appeal to bigger majority more often than not has opposite effect

[idle walrus]

Yea

But this discuss is for the one for people saying the other twin is better

[burnt shard]

the thing is people made a fan server for evil so they can discuss all they want in that server about it, but they bring it to the main server too which is a server for both twins

[idle walrus]

And as for me I don't really mind it people saying that til they get too obnoxious and fight people who is better

And for me that's just cringe as fuck

[burnt shard]

it comes with a bunch of doomposting too which is just bleh

[broken gust]

counterpoint

I can say I think "linux is better than Windows and windows is a shit product no-one should use"
but because those OS's arent humanized, we dont find it negative

I dont think you are being entirely objective in your view on this issue

[pastel ridge]

Hypothetical go to someone else stream and tell them this other streamer is better than you
What do you think will happen?

[broken gust]

this isnt about on-stream

its in the community channels

reddit and discord

[burnt shard]

i mean people do it on stream its said in this convo

on chill streams if evil calls neuro randomly people spam "hang up" in chat so its not like its just discord

[viral yoke]

well the post is about both basically

[pastel ridge]

It's about both

[late pollen]

Well, technically this discussion post is called streams, so maybe it is considering it a little bit.

[broken gust]

sure
but I think we all agreed the stream part was an issue already
so I think its a moot point personally

[viral yoke]

cuz yeah

you cant avoid it on stream
YOU CAN avoid it everywhere else

[burnt shard]

if you moderate it in stream and not other spaces people will just move to them. like livestream chat in discord etc

[broken gust]

yes
and I think thats fine

[burnt shard]

its just negative stuff for no reason tbf

[broken gust]

its only negative cause you dont agree

[idle walrus]

Yea and moderators are there too and #livestream-chat is not that fast and mods can immediately stop jt

[viral yoke]

But it is an opinion that shouldn't be moderated

[broken gust]

saying "its negative" is not a valid reason to ban speech

[viral yoke]

if people start spiraling into pointless argument, maybe
But that goes for every NN argument

[idle walrus]

[broken gust]

then its a spam issue
so mods can nuke em if they like

[burnt shard]

i dont think spam is really moderated like other rules tbf

[broken gust]

what

wdym?

[viral yoke]

on-stream mabe, on discord very much is

[burnt shard]

spam get allowed quite often lol its not as serious a thing and usually has to be quite bad to get stopped

[broken gust]

where?

[idle walrus]

Livestream chat spam is normal though

[burnt shard]

idk ive seen floods of gifs and emotes and stickers in some chats in discord and its not had a warning or anything

[late pollen]

I mean true, but I feel like it can be a bit much sometimes, especially because not everyone will be able to live with seeing it.

[idle walrus]

Well, I've seen spam in NN but I know you don't go there

[broken gust]

sure
but again
thats where YOU use your personal values
and decide wether you wanna engage or not

[viral yoke]

i mean it can happen sometime, but again, nowhere as bad as back when we had entire floods

[burnt shard]

yeah discord is much more readable than twich chats tbf

[broken gust]

and I dont think there is EVERY any meaningful discussion in twitch chat anyways
so its not like that aspect needs to be moderated LMAO

[viral yoke]

thats why i find NN so great
Yes it can be negative, but channel does have a lot to provide if you look past it

criticism, sensitive topics, which are often taboo in rest of the community

it is a subculture

[broken gust]

yeah like dont get me wrong
the negativity of NN pisses me off a lot
im not a doomposter

but they SHOULD be allowed to doompost and complain
I just tend to leave when I find it unbearable
-# (or I get sucked into arguments cause im addicted but thats cause im stupid LMAO)

[idle walrus]

Fighting aswell, they can fight in NN not being scared of getting booted (being cordial ofc, if they go too far then that's when the mods comes in)

[idle walrus]

If you get sucked in imma just say,( go make a sandwich bro leave NN)

[broken gust]

tho I think some people need some lessons in internet etiquette in NN ngl
several people genuinely dont know HOW to be cordial
but its not a moderator issue imo still

they just need to grow up

[inner rose]

I go on the neuro subreddit often and notice it more too, very cringe

[viral yoke]

yeah, it is fighting where a positive feedback can form and be utilised
On yt comments for example that never happens because a critical view doesn't exist outright

besides, if you give NN a chance beyond argument you'll find alot of silly posting and such
It's not perfect, but it can grow on you
Even the endless arguments

there are probably few that want genuine answer

Curious which twin is perceived as better without knowing it's a whole years long debate

[idle walrus]

All I can see about that argument is people ragebaiting in NN on who is better and then they go offtopic like a factory sreset and be Normal again

[viral yoke]

there is probably some wisdon there that it's better to just wait for NN to reset on it' own rather than forcefully trying to change the topic

[light lichen]

oh also the thread title should probably be made more specific than just "streams" ngl

[crystal pawn]

the streams suck, I hate vedal and the twins

[fringe sierra]

Ramen

[grim trellis]

not much can be done about this, it's inevitable that people would compare the two/prefer the other

it's just human nature

people are free to express their opinions and preferences, although it does start to get annoying when the intention is just to downplay or ragebait them on stream

[light lichen]

I don't think people here are complaining about people preferring one over the others (thought police, literally 1984), it's more about how that's expressed

[fringe sierra]

basically all was already said

Tribalism is a non issue outside of streams. They’re opinions and moderating them in the community would just lead to oppression. Because they’re opinions, you have the choice to simply just not engage.

Although, moderating these things during streams, especially chills, can improve the quality greatly

I do think what should remain moderated is the attacking, antagonizing, and dogpiling, as those are just always negative. Should also probably ban ragebait in this regard since it leads to further descension into chaos.

[north cliff]

still not a reason for mod action

[light lichen]

Yeah I don't think literal antagonization for preference should be moderated at all.

-# if this isn't clear, this is a joke.

[grim trellis]

[fringe sierra]

some people treating their opinions as facts

[grim trellis]

yt commenters

[grim trellis]

basically so.

[light lichen]

surprisingly idt I've come across too many yt comments on clips/reactions/videos where they are literally attacking people, but the ones I have seen are... bad

[grim trellis]

yeah, not too many negative comments on the yt side, mostly just too much positivity (which is bad) and the other people (you know who they are)

[balmy nova]

The reality is once you repeat opinions enough it turns into fact for all the unknowledgeable people . Eg* : evil is the nicer twin

[fringe sierra]

That’s a them problem though
You should have enough common sense to not trust strangers on the internet

In the case of this, having the integrity to form your own opinions

[undone thicket]

But that's just not plausible , that would be a utopia . The reality is the community creates their own canons and it's just getting obnoxious as time goes

[viral yoke]

Or Neuro is trained on twitch chat

[grim trellis]

[pastel ridge]

It's a them problem until enough people believe them with no questions asked 🥀

[viral yoke]

We could have vedal deny it and people would still repeat it like parrots

[pastel ridge]

This headcanon became popular because of him in the first place

[light lichen]

for sure for at least a few weeks, depending on the clip that spreads where vedal talks about it, might be over after that

[light lichen]

which one?

[pastel ridge]

Evil being the good twin
And Neuro being pure evil

[light lichen]

can't remember how that was popular because of him

[viral yoke]

With the turtle video? No chance.

[light lichen]

stop reminding me of that

[pastel ridge]

Second subathon after the Evil Amazon stream
Where he basically said evil would stab you in the front and Neuro in the back
Somehow people turned that into Neuro is evil and evil is good

[light lichen]

Aaaaaand how is that his fault that people twisted that?

[viral yoke]

Ans yeah like same goes for "neuro is not entertaining alone"

It's a very popular mindset

[pastel ridge]

Just saying that became really popular after he said that

[fringe sierra]

…then just ignore it?

[undone thicket]

... I am that's why I'm still here Einstein .. was just proving a point

[pastel ridge]

Like I said the only way to enjoy Neuro I guess is apparently to ignore everything that has to do with her

[light lichen]

To be fair, that likely used to be more "true" iykwim

just that over time this became "false"

[balmy nova]

Im dying of hunger here , just ignore it bro

[fringe sierra]

you don’t need to prove anything to me, that’s pointless
I already know the full picture

[viral yoke]

I mean back in 2023 we had a lot of chill streams, neuro was objectively worse technically, yet no one complained

And today people are proud to say they consider neuro alone boring despite her being more capable than ever

And this one could be technically harmful, because if that perception spreads nobody will be willing to watch neuro

But this is probably off-topic here

[undone thicket]

Wow ... You are not the only guy reading this , that wasn't directed at you (only) don't worry .

[balmy nova]

Some big protagonist syndrome out here ... Remember this thread is for everyone to read don't take anything seriously especially in this discord

[fringe sierra]

live orangerobot stroke

[viral yoke]

Dumb autocorrect

[fringe sierra]

anyways yeah, this headcanon bs is not the true focus of the thread so it’s best we concluded there

[viral yoke]

Yeah I think the topic is as exhausted as it can be