Bilibili integrations

[worldly hedge]

Oi one of you guys here who are behind the great firewall

Drop your vpn then try going to https://kick.com

[waxen viper]

I live in china, and i just found out, it is true

[drowsy vale]

I thought you have realized this months ago.

[worldly hedge]

NO FUCKING WAY

[warm moat]

all this time you could have used to work on the skyrim mod...

[grand sparrow]

Anyway, I think we really did circle back around to the real problem not being pandering to one audience or the other, but just being a volume question. If that gets figured out (and vedal isn't banned) then honestly it's fine to have their seperate communities because the questions get fed to neuro and everyone gets their translations

[waxen viper]

holy shit, i dont even know

[worldly hedge]

KICK ACTUALLY WORKS IN CHINA

[wild turtle]

yeah but shitheads stream on kick lol

[main vale]

wait can they make purchases tho?

[worldly hedge]

True but that might actually be a solution

[safe drift]

What's the definition of personal use anyway? Since apperently 3rd party software is allowed for personal use.

[waxen viper]

i just turn off my vpn , i link in so fucking smooth

[worldly hedge]

I don't see why not

[glass rapids]

It isn't, I feel like Discord isn't too different from Twitter or other places when it comes to negativity

[quiet marsh]

yeah would be really icky to be grouped up with people on that platform

it also viewbots its own streamers to puff them up heavily

[safe token]

You need those people to provide cover for the ones that are slightly edgy but otherwise normal

[potent narwhal]

guys, kick doesn't solve anything. i highly doubt vedal wants to leave twitch by choice.

[worldly hedge]

It would I despise kick

But its an option

[main vale]

discord is twitter but instead of a 1v1 match it's a FFA match

[lean condor]

I assume as a viewer

[warm moat]

means only you can see the aggregated content, you don't show it to the viewers

[blazing barn]

you will not see 8000 people watching on kick

[cursive thunder]

Wont be able to raid friends anymore too

[lethal haven]

ooohhooohoho you sneaky sneaker you

[worldly hedge]

Could you signify you're doing CN friendly streams on kick via bili though xdx

[novel light]

like, not directly tied to the stream, but used for personal reference, or something like that

[quartz mantle]

you cant show to viewers
so third party on screen stuff donos and chats is in the red zone according to that

[worldly hedge]

Tbf that's a kick.com banned in China any%

[main vale]

that breaks their tos

[west solar]

personal use = not on stream,
for example having a personal chat with both twitch and bilibili open at the same time when you are watching a stream

[warm moat]

don't know which "Twitter" you're referring to, the one I know is called "X" and it's more like 1000 vs 1.

[main vale]

xitter

[worldly hedge]

Xitter

Twixter

[safe token]

Using X's disavowed name smh

[grim mauve]

Am I too late to the dumpster fire

[waxen viper]

how the heck kick is availabe in china

[main vale]

twix? tbh im hungry

[safe token]

unironically yes

[green crow]

yes vedal just gave up on discord

[wild turtle]

just start streaming on Mixer. problem solved

[worldly hedge]

Beats me but apparently Evil was

[obsidian magnet]

It's not big enough for them to care

[safe token]

The government does not have infinite resources to keep track of sites to ban

[west solar]

the chinese government will be quite sus then when a obscure streaming platform suddendly gets 500x more viewers from china

[main vale]

they do

[quartz mantle]

hey access to casinos without needing to fly to macau

[worldly hedge]

Maybe, but it would work as a temp measure I guess

Plus if its just the neur I doubt the numbers would be big enough to alert the censorship bureau

[main vale]

please don't stream on kick

[safe token]

Perhaps you are more familiar, but my understanding was that there is an art to maneuvering within/around their censorship regime

[worldly hedge]

Thing is I despise kick, but I like the idea of exclusive streams there more than on bili where 90% of the worlds population can't engage with them

[waxen viper]

i do believe china gov just banned everything outside, and let some website accessable(like github)

[main vale]

kick is on the verge of bankruptcy

[safe token]

See I thought they had to specifically turn stuff off

[main vale]

just let it fall

[worldly hedge]

Ripbozo if so

[quartz mantle]

arent they supported by their second gamba site?

[grim mauve]

I think whatever vedal decides to do, just set clear expectations for viewers on twitch and B2. Monthly B2 exclusive streams could work if done right. But the risk is, if done wrong, you get hololive style drama because you are collecting rent once a month

[main vale]

that's the thing

its their only supporter

[safe token]

I don't think the B2 exclusive streams are happening. Looks like B2 dono message integration

[worldly hedge]

Honestly dono message integration is fine in the first place imo

My bili superchat stream or CN time kick stream ideas were just floated to quell complaints on here

[grim mauve]

Yeah I think dono integration should be fine

[safe token]

I think it's fine in theory but how it's executed will really matter

[grim mauve]

My sub and donos on twitch already get donowalled so

[quartz mantle]

I still think the first thing he should do before anything is to talk with Twitch about it, get it straight if it is allowed and go all in, if it isnt start to thing of a plan B; like:
B2 chat and superchat reading with simulcast on Neuro youtube channel

[novel light]

if he does something to speed up the "thank you's" I won't mind either

[safe token]

"It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" is a phrase for a reason

[quartz mantle]

in a platform where you can get banned for absolutelly no reason and with a heavy bias against the Vtuber scene I wouldnt think that way

he could even be made an example

[worldly hedge]

I don't think that's all that likely

It'd probably be a temp ban at worst

[west solar]

my concerns are mostly for the volume of chats and the culture difference between twitch and B2
the worst case scenario that i can imagine is twitch being only like 1 / 4 of the messages being read and the 3/4 that come from bilibili will be spammier stuff / cringe (Neuro play Genshin Impact!!) / stuff that EN viewers dont understand like references to CN trends

[quartz mantle]

and get a WAY harsher punishment (and the whole party today might give some people on the twitch mod team a excuse to slap with an heavier hand)

[grand sparrow]

isn't kick literally just a loss leader for the gambling website

[potent narwhal]

it's better to just do it and fix it later if there is an issue, than be told no from the start (which is the likely outcome, especially if they don't fully understand what he wants to do, which is likely since nobody has done what he's proposing).

[safe token]

I think for a channel as big as his a perma is exceedingly unlikely

[grim mauve]

Can't wait for more community drama

[blazing barn]

the odds of this leading to a perm ban is 0%

worrying about that is actual insanity

[quartz mantle]

not a perma but a 1 week vacation can be a good slap

[safe token]

I think the one counter to this is if you try it and it just doesn't work, and you have to turn it off, the CN viewers might see it as an insult. I'm not saying you don't do it, but it's not irrelevant

[safe token]

Part of the game

[drowsy vale]

Bro CN viewers are not ignorant to that point.

[novel light]

that was basically my point before, this is not something that can be easily reverted if it goes wrong

[lethal haven]

He can always make the mommy AI and then twitch wouldnt dare touch him

[drowsy vale]

They will understand that the hands are forced.

[worldly hedge]

Our CN community is chill

[strong thicket]

Vedal AI should just debut a shiny new CN talent there (someday). Then we’d be the ones wanting subtitles and simulcasts. They could have their own chat, filters, content.

[worldly hedge]

Its not a hololive situation

[blazing barn]

ngl the level of freakout that would happen here would be kind of fun

i can't even imagine the

[safe token]

But what if you wanted to dono to Chinese mommy AI?
Sorry the CN community is afraid of it so it won't happen

[rotund perch]

[grim mauve]

B2 neuro community is not too toxic yet

Might as well do it now

[drowsy vale]

[novel light]

that "yet" is so conforting

[rotund perch]

untainted

[quartz mantle]

Aethel collab to test the waters?

[quiet marsh]

dude just didnt see b2 chat when he was about to deny neuro last song on karaoke

[worldly hedge]

Its only so long before they catch our brainrot

[primal magnet]

don't worry
NN can fix that

[warm moat]

they already call Vedal coldfish987 so I think they are probably already talking shit about Vedal like us.

[fluid nimbus]

god no.

[safe drift]

Neuro's bilibili community is nice. I mean, everyone who wants to watch live is dedicated enough to watch at like 2am.

[quartz mantle]

just create a CN-NN so their insanity can be contained there

[grim mauve]

Yeah 2am already filters out a lot of haters

[worldly hedge]

One nn is already too many

[safe token]

NN should fix themselves first

[west solar]

you can't fix perfection

[grim mauve]

I think if vedal makes it clear on B2 that he is just trying things out with integration and what not, no one would be mad there

[safe drift]

Yeah.. . never happening

[quartz mantle]

nah it should get even more broken, might be easier to overflow the hatred into love

[wild turtle]

damn you guys can't even be on topic in here, its like a small private NN in the forum

I'm glad I don't have to spend time thinking about this kind of stuff like Vedal does, sounds like a whole headache

[lusty spade]

Honestly, if Twitch says no to on screen B2, Vedal could just not show the B2 messages on stream. Cause at that point, what is the difference between neuro reading a B2 message, and a human streamer reading a Youtube message. That solves the biggest issue. Though regardless, I am sure Twitch would just make an exception for Neuro, cause displaying the message just improves the viewer experience for all.

[safe token]

This implies a difference in how we define perfection that would take another three hour debate to untangle

[potent narwhal]

true, and if some kind of interaction for them can happen, that gives them another reason to stay awake instead of just watching the replay later.

[grim mauve]

Right now there are few MODS on B2 channel because no one is gonna be there everyday at 2am

[potent narwhal]

since i assume vedal makes basically nothing if people don't donate during stream on b2

[safe token]

To give up permanently is the ultimate defeat

[worldly hedge]

Okay Sisyphus

[green crow]

how is Vedal going to find people willing to moderate for free at 2 am every stream for free

[safe token]

I think it would be reasonable to say that B2 integration shouldn't be turned on until the chat is reasonably well sorted out. Though you could also say - Push B2 messages through both a Chinese filter and an American filter. But even then, there's the question of the chat culture

[tired patrol]

i don't think it's the fact that the donos are showed is the biggest nono for Twitch, it's the the fact that the streamer (aka Neuro) will read them despite not being from Twitch

[waxen viper]

you guys seem dont know, B2 viewers are going so wild due to today's stream

[safe token]

You either love the boulder or give up and it crushes you

[worldly hedge]

Just let it roll to the bottom and chill there

[grim mauve]

Also B2 integration doesn't have to happen right away?

[waxen viper]

i've translate some post actually, shall i post it?

[safe token]

I once thought this, but it is not an option

[lusty spade]

But doesn't simulcast streamers already do that?

[quiet marsh]

go for it

[safe token]

I think though, in a sense, the sooner the better. While it doesn't seem to involve a lot of development time, one of the main complaints was about it pulling Vedal in too many directions

[worldly hedge]

Based

[drowsy vale]

I think Vedal will unironically pander to B2 just because of the sheer positivity.

[safe drift]

Doesn't this part of the ToS imply that its fine as long as twitch is not ignored

[crude bolt]

this is pretty wholesome

[worldly hedge]

Ya know what fuck it, I like seeing the CN bros have fun with neuro

[tired patrol]

with Bilibili and Twitch ? i don't think so, and i don't think they read donos either they just re-broadcast it like Vedal is doing rn

[quartz mantle]

so /p are the brothers to the Evilists I see

[quiet marsh]

can you send me a full picture from this guys profile pic?

[fluid nimbus]

lol

[safe token]

So they will also be sending "Neuro so cute" and "Evil so cute" messages

[worldly hedge]

I wouldn't care about a b2 exclusive stream once a month

If that's on the table

[grand sparrow]

Are we truly so different? Perhaps it is Evil who bridges us all together....

[safe token]

It's why I suggested that B2 messages should only be displayed if the Twitch queue is empty

[potent narwhal]

the time to try new things is now, when B2 is still fresh and the excitement is at maximum. and then it either works or it doesn't and everyone moves on.

[worldly hedge]

Hell even once a fortnight, just no more than that

[safe token]

Truly her abilities are without limits

[worldly hedge]

I can't be selfish when I see that kinda love for neuro

[waxen viper]

that guy changes his profile, unluck for you man

[quiet marsh]

...

[gleaming abyss]

well, thanks for taking in our feedback anyways

[tired patrol]

there's also this one

[lusty spade]

I can't say I have watched a lot of simulcast streamer (tbh I only watch Neuro streams), but the few I have, I have seen them mention other chats, I could be wrong though (And I mean specifcally between twitch and youtube, but idk why it being with B2 would change things)

[worldly hedge]

Neuro being an AI defo puts us in an unusual grey area

[grim mauve]

Or just turn on B2 integration on Tuesday and see what happens

[warm moat]

imagine, because of b2, Vedal being forced to bring Evil out of the basement more often

[grim mauve]

We have no data points to speculate on

[safe token]

Again, why B2 messages should only display if Twitch queue is empty IMO

[quartz mantle]

they can mention but they cant join Twitch and other chat together
dont know if you still can show them separated tho

[worldly hedge]

People will still complain about donowalling that way, but that's always gonna be a problem with sub merging

Its a tricky one

[green crow]

how will twitch even know if neuro is reading out a b2 dono ?

[tired patrol]

it would prioritize the donos from BiliBili over the regular twitch messages breaking the TOS again

[worldly hedge]

I mean I see sheer positivity and love for neuro coming from the b2 community, I don't wanna see them left out in the cold

[green crow]

again never seen this rule be enforced ever

[quiet marsh]

yeah I dont think that rule works in such a strict sense

[grim mauve]

While super chats will double, so will neuro art

[worldly hedge]

If the occasional exclusive stream is what it takes I wouldn't care

My cold heart has been warmed

[green crow]

also animations

[safe token]

if not twitchQueue.hasMessages() then
checkB2queue()
else
displayTwitchMessage

Do this after every message to make sure a Twitch message isnt' held up

[quiet marsh]

mars meant that twitch messages (normal ones) should prioritise over b2 superchats to not break TOS

[fluid nimbus]

no no no

it should be

if not twitchQueue.hasMessages() then
    checkB2queue()
    mockTheMessageToBeLikeFromTwitch()
else
    displayTwitchMessage

[potent narwhal]

realistically, how would twitch even know about this one way or the other?

[quartz mantle]

just put a big text saying:

IF THE DONATOR IS NOT IN CHAT THEN NEURO MADE HIM UP

[wild turtle]

maybe the CN viewers can ~~bully ~~ convince Vedal hard enough so we get more Evil collabs finally

[grim mauve]

How the heck will twitch know which message comes from B2

[worldly hedge]

The ol plausible deniability strat

[fluid nimbus]

the mockTheMessageToBeLikeFromTwitch() is very important

[worldly hedge]

That could actually work

[quiet marsh]

what if they send a person to check

[safe token]

The issue is the donator names

[grim mauve]

They just see neuro yap

Neuro makes things up all the time

[lusty spade]

I honestly think Vedal just needs to ask Twitch, cause what some people are arguing is against TOS in this thread, many people due without issue

[worldly hedge]

"We trained neuro on some of b2 chat so now she loves making up Chinese sounding names, gee what a coincidence"

[safe token]

If the B2 users are donating, they want to see their names

[wild turtle]

its usually not a good idea to try to test the limits of the one who is signing your checks.. its easy for us to say oh Vedal should do this and this to get around these.. but its his livelihood on the line not ours.

Like when Twitch made changes to the art and people took it extreme so Twitch just walked it back entirely

[potent narwhal]

perhaps the simple solution is to just not show the name? the old TTS dono system didn't say names either so it should be fine to just not show anyone's names from all platform dono sources.

[green crow]

they just suddenly decide to enforce the rule on neuros stream specifically

[worldly hedge]

Yeah and they can, we just pretend they're not real

[grim mauve]

Geez good luck filtering that

[quiet marsh]

history with her ban shows that "she just says random stuff all the time" is not a valid defense

[worldly hedge]

I doubt Twitch are gonna go full private eye on him

[fluid nimbus]

twitch side will show a random selected name from twitch chat, and b2 side will show the original name

i think that's a pretty easy workaround.

[worldly hedge]

That also works

[safe token]

Feels like removing an incentive to donate

[lusty spade]

That's what I'm saying

[safe drift]

Either way Vedal will probably be fine testing his current plan. Assuming twitch is following their own guidelines of.

[worldly hedge]

I think showing the name CN side but not EN side could also sidestep this issue yeah

[fluid nimbus]

it just evil/neuro will randomly say Chinese for some reason

[green crow]

we have had some close calls after that incident which went unnoticed

[wild turtle]

Neuro ends up saying something bad in Chinese 💀

[tired patrol]

you really think Twitch will not see these loopholes

[wild turtle]

no guys dont worry, rando discord chatters know all the loopholes that twitch never thought of

[quiet marsh]

im glad nobody snitched

[fluid nimbus]

if no one snitch Twitch won't notice

[worldly hedge]

Plausible deniability can take you far

[safe drift]

You think twitch will spend the time thoroughly investigating?

[worldly hedge]

But yeah its probs a bad idea

[safe token]

I feel like if you do this you make it worse if you get caught because it's an admission that you thought you were doing something you weren't supposed to do, vs. if you show the names and get caught you say "I wasn't holding up the Twitch donos." But I don't know what dealing with Twitch is like

[fluid nimbus]

ok how you approve it?

[worldly hedge]

Go to b2, line up names

Proven

Unlikely they'd do that but it would be hella risky

[green crow]

unless someone at twitch specifically hates neuro we should be fine

[fluid nimbus]

you won't see who sent it after stream

[rotund void]

ok i'm new to the convo and a bit lost. b2 is short for bilibili?

[worldly hedge]

All it takes is one guy in twitch chat with an axe to grind to connect the dots and snitch to Twitch and you're in trouble

[fluid nimbus]

and in order to see who sent it, you have to be logged in on b2

[proper crater]

Vedal, the arguments here can go on indefinitely. If you're hoping we'll come to some sort of consensus, you're hoping in vain (Go back to work)

[raven barn]

The way I see it, is that regardless of B2 donos implemented, Vedal should think about really shortening the time Neuros spend on thanking subs and gifteds

[green crow]

twitch is not putting in that much effort

[fluid nimbus]

you think twitch gonna make that much efforts to just prove Vedal found the loophole?

[worldly hedge]

In the grimdark future of 2024, there is only bwaa

[rotund void]

I imagine any chat neuro gets fed from the b2 side will be translated first, so to her she's seeing and replying in english

[proper crater]

Thanks for this thread by the way. People have forgotten about the Evil name debate

[quiet marsh]

deadpool talking to camera moment

[main sluice]

Twitch has never had any weird, illogical or unequal enforcement of it's policies. It'll be fine.

[tired patrol]

glad to help

[wild turtle]

I mean what is there to debate? Its Evilyn

[quartz mantle]

there is only a type of loopholes that Twitch doesnt fix
and if I say them I will get bonked

[safe token]

||Kayori||

[worldly hedge]

Pyrocynical

[green crow]

even if they did find the loophole they would have to change the tos first before they decide to ban (i think)

[fluid nimbus]

if message is translated, and username is shown as random name on Twitch, tbf you can't prove the chat is not from twitch dono.

[rotund void]

lmao nah they'll just ban you first and worry about it never. twitch sucks at both making and enforcing their policies and constantly plays favorites

[worldly hedge]

As much as I wanna try the loophole ideas for funsies, its probably flying too close to the sun given this is tutels actual livelihood

[quartz mantle]

it has been proven that you can be banned and then the ToS will be fixed to make it a actual reason for the ban

[quiet marsh]

you can just look at twitch donos (yes twitch can see their own platform donos) and see that it just wasnt true

[safe token]

I think too, if we're doing this, I'd be interested in what the B2 donations are from a curiosity standpoint, not left guessing because of fake info

[fluid nimbus]

pretty sure that's confidential information.

[green crow]

streamers already interact with their other chats so Neuro would be the first streamer to catch a ban over something like this

[quiet marsh]

bits people donate literally appear in plain chat, anyone can see them

[warm moat]

just setup streamlabs for the donation and pretend the b2 donation come from streamlabs

[quartz mantle]

and it isnt really confidential since twitch gets a cut of it

[fluid nimbus]

what about real money dono?

[grim mauve]

Pretend B2 donos are from discord

[safe token]

YEAH WAIT A SECOND STREAMLABS HAS BEEN FINE ON TWITCH FOREVER

[warm moat]

because streamlabs isn't a streaming platform

[fluid nimbus]

pretty sure that's confidential or highly confidential data

[quiet marsh]

tbh if twitch is fine with donos from 3rd party like stream labs I dont see whats wrong with donos from b2 at all

[wild turtle]

Vedal.. I mean not like you'll see this question I'm sure but with you expanding Neuro onto b2, are you making an official Neuro channel for CN? Or is that already handled?

like for videos and such

[quartz mantle]

doesnt B2 already work like Youtube?

[rotund perch]

ur not gonna believe this

[green crow]

[quartz mantle]

it has the Streams, Clips and Videos

[warm moat]

it's not so much the dono, they just don't want to directly promote competing streaming platforms

[safe drift]

I guess technically neuro needs a third(second?) party service that connects her to other platforms to see the other chat donos. I guess twitch could use that excuse. But they obviously won't make such a stupid excuse .

[tired patrol]

all i'm saying that all of this could be prevented by just making a Bilibili only stream every month instead of trying to find loopholes that might lead us to a ban

[wild turtle]

wait shit I don't know what to not believe now

[grim mauve]

Don't believe vedal

[wild turtle]

I actually don't know cause I've been busy and a little distant from neurcord.. so I was actually curious

[green crow]

again they wouldn't even know unless they specifically go after neuro for some reason

[wild turtle]

[quartz mantle]

just make it a weekly early saturday stream with B2 chat reading and simulcast on youtube

[rotund void]

haters mass-reporting is always a threat in this space. there's your 'reason'

[fluid nimbus]

so what if we pretend b2 dono are from stream labs? lol

[lusty spade]

From the exact language used is the TOS, yes, I can see the issue for Neuro specifically, cause she needs "third-party services" to do really anything, but considering she is the streamer, I think Vedal just needs to ask, and he will get an exception. Cause, from what I can see, nothing in the TOS stops a human streamer from just reading another chat. So this is just accounting for Neuro being an AI.

[grim mauve]

Let's say vedal makes a CN channel, how many followers do you think he'll get

[wild turtle]

5

[main sluice]

Certainly that is the reasoning that can be used. Plenty of simulcast streamers read from both Twitch and Youtube but depending on how Vedal ends up implementing it, Twitch could be stupid and say it isn't the same.

[wild turtle]

[potent narwhal]

people worry too much. with what other streamers regularly get away with on twitch, it's not really a problem. it's 100% worth a try at least.

[green crow]

there have been multiple moments where neuro could have been banned for saying stuff on twitch before

[rotund void]

twitch is banned on the CN side altogether right? it physically can't compete with b2 so if twitch throws a hissy fit over that they're literally schizophernic (wouldn't be the first time)

[quiet marsh]

on the other hand, does it really take that many resourses to upload same stuff he already does on b2 for another youtube channel, esp if his cn partners take care of it too

[potent narwhal]

twitch has a whole category of streamers pushing the TOS looking for loopholes. I'm sure you can guess what I'm talking about. vedal will be fine.

[grim mauve]

Are you saying YouTube content to B2 or the other way?

[rotund void]

also, tutel man should 100% just go ahead and do it. the ban will be good content

[worldly hedge]

They can and will still do that

[quiet marsh]

other way, cn yt channel with stuff from b2 channel

just for more publicity

[safe token]

Catching a ban is always possible if you work in social media. People forget that Neuro's ban was for almost as bright a line issue as you can get. It's basically impossible to do anything and not theoretically be outside the TOS

[quartz mantle]

discord stream will be back on the menu boys

[safe token]

Evil said multiple "banworthy" things today. Likely nothing will come of any of them

[grim mauve]

Most because YouTube and B2 like different forms of content

[worldly hedge]

A ban actually over halves veds income temporarily

You don't wanna play too fast and loose with stakes like that

[safe token]

And if you were to find something that could succeed on both, well, then, best to dig the gold mine

[quartz mantle]

if it stays inside the channel bubble he wont get banned

if a lot of the bigger streamers react to it and some people report

he could be indanger

[worldly hedge]

Its just not worth the risk, you're talking about playing dice with a dudes livelihood

[quartz mantle]

thats why people dont like clips being dropped on LSF

[worldly hedge]

So yeah, bad idea

[rotund void]

doesn't LSF exist primarily on reddit?

[quartz mantle]

yes but the bigger streamers like cough xQc cough go to LSF and react to clips

[rotund perch]

okay but its funny

[grim mauve]

Neuro banned on twitch -> full corpa on B2

[worldly hedge]

There goes my take

[gleaming abyss]

Here you go https://space.bilibili.com/3546729368520811/

[drowsy vale]

[quartz mantle]

during the Kurosanji parody Vedal was afraid that xQc would react to the apology

[grand sparrow]

it do be funny

[drowsy vale]

That's the Vedal I trust.

[quiet marsh]

thats why defending vedal always looks so poor, he already knows the risk

[rotund void]

speaking of B2, can anyone clue me in what the -30 spam means over there? I'm literally

[safe token]

Which, almost more than anything, is why Vedal kinda has to do this. You need diversified platforms in case the worst happens

[worldly hedge]

I wasn't defending vedal

[green crow]

people donating to a wall there

[quartz mantle]

I dont think he was implying that you were defending Vedal tbh

[wild turtle]

oh cool, nice.. although I'm not sure why I opened the page I don't speak Chinese I can't read any of whats on the page lmao

[worldly hedge]

Fair, I'm bloody tired and only half following this

[warm moat]

iirc equivalent to our -20k or -500

[safe drift]

Basically the same thing as -500

[rotund void]

I see

[quiet marsh]

uh oh

[grim mauve]

Imagine if vedal gets banned for doing B2 integration, B2 fans will love him forever

[potent narwhal]

I think an important thing to remember also, is twitch and bilibili are not competitors. it's obvious that section of the twitch TOS was written with services like kick and youtube in mind, which directly compete with twitch. That will be a huge factor in twitch having a problem with this.

[grim mauve]

We must stop people loving vedal

[drowsy vale]

It's fine. Surely it won't blow up

[waxen viper]

48k followers and 300k views debut video, that's all u need to know

[worldly hedge]

Just make nn the only stream chat

[rotund void]

B2 can keep the tutel so long as we get Neuro and Evil in the divorce

[green crow]

ever lsf post is the same its completely normal comments followed by someone downvoted into oblivion because he brought up pdfs for some reason

[quiet marsh]

"grown men watching this..."

[wild turtle]

the numbers say so much and nothing at all

[safe drift]

Forgot a 0 its 480000 followers

[candid onyx]

And 3 million views

[rotund perch]

multiply those by 10

[safe token]

Helps that it was a cute/good video

[wild turtle]

China does have 1B+ people living in it, so high view counts arent surprising. I mean there's a reason movies and businesses try to have stuff in China too

[lone valve]

Vedal will translate the Bilibili donations to Twitch. If we imagine these donations came directly from Twitch, there shouldn't be a problem, right? Bilibili viewers could come to Twitch and donate there, but that would require extra steps. That's why I support Vedal's approach - it's essentially the same outcome. Viewers donate so Neuro can respond to their questions or interact with them, regardless of the platform. Translating these donations is the least Vedal can do for those who contribute. Let's help our fellow fans have an easier experience instead of forcing them to create new Twitch accounts when Vedal can simplify the process for them. Thanks, everyone.

[quiet marsh]

why wouldnt dono spam be a problem? it was complained about in the past long before b2

[warm moat]

just append "from streamlabs" and be done with it

[quiet marsh]

many people didnt like that whole chill streams were only answering dono and disrupting any attempt of conversation with neuro

[green crow]

surely there is a way to stagger the donos so we don't get bombarded

[quiet marsh]

we will see

[wild turtle]

"my dono never got read wtf rip off scammer987"

[lone valve]

Spam it more money for vedal also neuro is known to donowall nothing will change

[worldly hedge]

A real concern, but it looks like basically every option will lead to people freaking out

[grim mauve]

For reference, 100k followers is a lot for vtubers on B2. Hololive at its peak there had 1.5M

[quiet marsh]

bad take, stream quality is an issue for watchers

[warm moat]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-wall-gif-5021467

[green crow]

meanwhile big streamers ignore like 90% of donos

[warm moat]

we've been dealing with donowalls forever, not a big deal if not everyone's message got read

[worldly hedge]

I think your concerns are overblown tbh but this is 100% right, worse stream quality means less viewers and less paying

[quiet marsh]

the other thing is that chill streams get a lot less viewers but those viewers are dedicated neuro fans, why would you scare your core audience that sticks with neuro no matter what with enshittening the stream

[lone valve]

How can you complain about quality when we didnt even tried it yet? Taste it first before you say something

[grim mauve]

Realistically how many B2 viewers are gonna donate at 2am

Once the hype goes down

[quiet marsh]

once again, we already had dono spam before, not a new thing, i can say it was shit

[potent narwhal]

that's a good point, if you interpret the twitch TOS harshly, alerts from streamlabs wouldn't be allowed either. so vedal making his own alerts that work in a similar manner should be 100% fine.

[green crow]

i think vedal is also expecting the b2 streams to have around 5k for regular streams just like twitch after they hype is gone

[grim mauve]

iirc B2 ccv on mini collab dropped to 3000 towards the end

Because it went on longer

[green crow]

^

[waxen viper]

i think now the hype is going down

[grim mauve]

1k of those probably fell asleep with the stream open

I imagine not many people will stay up for chill streams

[waxen viper]

today's viewer minimum was 5k

and it was 3.30 am, they all core fans

[green crow]

which is completely understandable because of the time

[lone valve]

No spam of donation in bilibili today maybe 10 or less i could be wrong

[warm moat]

simulcast guidelines don't apply to the streamlabs donation service though, because it isn't a streaming platform and is technically not a reflection of another platform's chat. If streamlabs provided a module to aggregate chats though, pretty sure that module would be considered one of those "third party" services to avoid.

[warm moat]

at this point most of them know Neuro won't read them so no incentive to donate

[potent narwhal]

true, aggregating the chat would be a problem, but a streamlabs priority message and a bilibili priority message vedal imports are functionally identical.

[quartz mantle]

it is hard to put streamlabs and bilibli on the same level ToS wise

[green crow]

i saw people spam that if they wanted their donations to be read they should use something else

catwalk or something

[quartz mantle]

since streamlabs is a tool that is used by the community it could be argued that it is the Twitch viewer who is using the streamlabs to donate money

and create content

whereas with b2 you cant say that the dono wasnt made for the twitch chat before being for b2

[potent narwhal]

that seems like a dubious argument to me. streamlabs is a 3rd party service, and the dono's for alerts do not go through twitch nor need to originate from a twitch viewer at all. twitch has zero visibility into streamlabs.

and streamlabs specifically advertises itself as for services that compete with twitch, such as youtube & facebook. plus streamers directly link to it and promote it through twitch publicly. this is all far beyond and pushes the TOS much further than what vedal wants to do.

[velvet crescent]

[thick coral]

People who simucast on youtube and twitch generally still read off the superchats from youtube. Why couldnt Neuro read them off since she is the streamer? Neuro could just say 'this question comes from bilibi' then readn and answer it.

the question could still be displayed on bilibili and neuro could answer it with the audience given context of where it was from without showing it on twitch itself.

Hell given Neuros nature she would probably be better at it than normal streamers since she could divide her attention better.

[gleaming abyss]

For those trying to read the initial post the link is here #1272663234675081246 message

[opaque bear]

this seems inevitable

[upbeat meadow]

what if vedal just starts his own streaming platform and have it be the only way to communicate with neuro

[leaden pasture]

wtf 1403 replys

[limpid basin]

I don't really see the issue with 5-10 payed for messages from bilibili being read by Neuro, oh well.

[hardy kraken]

Whole buncha yap

(I read it anyway)

[oak birch]

yea i read it all, good yapping yall

@waxen viper i would love to see a forum or something here for more translated bilibili comments and posts

[waxen viper]

sure, shall i start a new post?

[oak birch]

that would be awesome, i loved seeing their reactions. its pretty heartwarming to see

[waxen viper]

I'll get into it then. love to share all the enthusiasm and energy of china fans to you all !

[oak birch]

i dont think google translate got all this right but niu niu is a cute nickname

glory to the bee colony

[waxen viper]

bro google translate is so broken lmfao

[torpid swallow]

niu niu is actually translated as beef.

[oak birch]

neuro is beef and clippers are sliced men. it works out

[summer dome]

If you want to post translated comments please do it in #neurotic-neurons or #general-network , this channel is only for suggestions and questions

[waxen viper]

understood

[hushed pond]

I guess we have to separate the stream if we want to have bilibili integration and not to against the twitch tos.

Vedal could build a platform by himself, i guess it may be a 2nd-party platform and may not against the twitch tos?

[azure junco]

Yeah there will be many reoblems.The fan base of Bilibili is almost equal to that of Twitch, and in the foreseeable future, the growth rate of Bilibili's fan base will be much faster. It is almost impossible to digest these fans in a short time.So taking it slow would be a smarter approach.Last, no matter what will happen, Twitch fans should learn to gradually accept the existence of a large number of Chinese fans who have been ignored for a long time

[thick pelican]

I've been living in China for about seven years now, and I often watch live streams on Bilibili.

Usually, the concurrent viewer numbers and gift counts on Bilibili's live streams seem to be inflated, so what you see might not be real.

But that's not the case with Neuro's streams. Even at 2 a.m. in China, there are a ton of actual people (at least 6,000 on average) posting real comments and even sending gifts. I've checked this multiple times, and it's amazing to see. It's not just a one-time thing either; it looks like it will continue.

I completely agree that the current streaming time is ideal for European viewers, but I think it would be great to have an [early stream occasionally] maybe once a mouth?
I believe it would draw a lot of attention and is definitely an opportunity

Worth trying.

[ivory parrot]

WTF is this thread

[granite moon]

Holy shit, you people exceeded the "elephant in the room" and the "evil birthday" forum posts.

At last, a triumvirate of hot air 🥹 so many messages and so little significance. I am eagerly awaiting the next big, bad forum post. There have been some rumblings about Evil. Maybe we will have that as the next topic.

[hearty dove]

[grim mauve]

Whatever vedal ends up doing, I think it's refreshing to see how much thought he's putting into this. So many people open a bilibili account as a quick cash grab, hire some local manager and clipper and then forget about it. It's good to see that's not the case here. I'm sure bilibili fans would appreciate the effort

[flint musk]

boy was backreading this whole thing a rollercoaster ride, this is the kind of exclusive Neurocord content I came here for

[severe pewter]

do you care about taiwan

they can watch on twitch

[limpid basin]

Here's the full writing for those still confused about the guidlines. Idk if it's even allowed to have for example 1 stream a month only on bilibili https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/simulcasting-guidelines?language=en_US

[quasi trout]

from watching other streamers they just read out youtube donations to everyone so everyone is involved

[waxen spruce]

After reading the guidelines, it is obviously a yes. As restrictive as the Twitch simulcasting guidelines are, they only apply to simulcasting. A unique stream is an entirely different matter; Twitch does not punish people for making content on other platforms.

[civic dawn]

as an aussie viewer, a differently timed stream here and there would be cool. rn streams are always at like 4/5am lol

[tame jetty]

Yeah neuro isn’t automatic and breaks frequently but that would be the ideal scenario

why is this thread so long

[fading wedge]

my 2 cents here is that both options (B2 integration into EN stream, exclusive B2 stream) can have potential to seriously degrade the EN experience

[tame jetty]

I’d like to see it in practice for a few streams

[fading wedge]

Marswatch has already explained why B2 paid messages into twitch stream will degrade the EN experience but I would argue a B2 exclusive will also be degrading.

An extra B2 stream means Vedal has to stream one extra time which has two potential consequences:

• It will either take up a usual EN stream day, reducing EN content directly
• It will be an EXTRA stream on top of EN stream

This second point of an extra stream itself has an additional consequence:

• It will be done at the expense of Vedal's time, which as we know he has little of, and it could eat through usual Neuro development time, rest or other things
  -- (If this is NOT true, then why wasn't there this "extra" stream for EN to begin with and this would be an issue of the first point of replacing an EN stream with a B2 stream)

Restreaming b2 exclusive to Twitch has its own problems, but i won't go into TOS

[prime roost]

Someone post chat GPT's take on this situation here, it would be the wisest

[fading wedge]

There's also the option of neuro clone stream on B2 at the exact same time as EN stream

doesn't take extra time in terms of stream slot (but will take preparation time)

[tame jetty]

Idk how you can degrade the experience most of the time she’s just reading twitch chat brain rot or spam, more of chat won’t make solo streaming worse and nothing would be lost

[tired patrol]

You didn't watched solo streams since a long time to say that, the only cause of her looping and saying the same things is mostly because of the higlighted messages like "say Bwaa nyoom ten times".

Most of the good questions comes from regular twitch chat, she doesn't reads emotes spam as much as before, she only reads it when it's spammed really hard and when there's no questions/actual sentences in between them to pick

I'm sure @quiet marsh can agree with that

[mortal geyser]

konbo why are you here

[gleaming abyss]

In this extensive discussion, the community debates the implications of integrating Bilibili (B2) donations and messages into Neuro-sama’s Twitch streams, with some considering it a beneficial move to support Chinese fans, while others express concerns about potential negative impacts on the Twitch audience experience. Concerns include spam from B2 donations, the risk of degrading the quality of streams, and compliance with Twitch’s TOS. Some suggest alternative solutions, like exclusive B2 streams or staggered donations, but these too raise issues about Vedal's time management and the potential for alienating parts of the existing community. The overall sentiment reflects a mix of optimism about expanding the audience and apprehension about maintaining the stream's quality for the existing Twitch viewers.

[prime roost]

Should've asked neuro or evil instead smh

[mortal geyser]

honestly i would like to propose a grouped way for neuro to thank donos if the problem is just about the saturated dono thank messages, like
"thanks <user1>, <user2>, and <user3> for the gifted subs"

there should be many workarounds, its not like the world is ending anyway but yeah

[tame jetty]

I agree or the alternative is just make the stream longer

[mortal geyser]

its bound to happen unfortunately. when neuro gets so big its just not an easy task to please everyone

[tired patrol]

good resumé for people who don't want to read all the thread from the beginning

[quiet marsh]

ye

[waxen spruce]

1. Replacement of an "usual EN stream day" is incredibly unlikely, so as to even make it a point of argument is unreasonable.
2. Your point of an extra stream for bilibili reducing Vedal's time is valid. However, it does not reduce as much time as you may think.
   • Neuro streams can be automated, and have been done so before. The only reason Vedal would be needed is for the occasional Neuro failure; even then, a moderator restarting Neuro would be possible.
   • A good time slot for unique Bilibili streaming, at 20:00 China time, corresponds nicely to 13:00, so we know Vedal's rest time would not be bothered.
   • Vedal has Neuro on a separate computer, so he can still develop features while a stream is running.
   The reason why there isn't an "extra" stream for EN to begin with is because that would lead to too much content. For example, Vedal has already stated how 24hr AI streams would kill the channel. If you believe there aren't enough streams, that is a separate issue from unique stream on Bilibili. In any case, if Vedal does cook, you can go to Bilibili to view the stream if you want.

[limpid basin]

Now explain it like I'm 10

[fading wedge]

Parroting discussion from Neurotic Neurons

With the recent copyright issues, Karaoke streams can be done on B2, which solves both the copyright issue and the b2 integration issue

I could expand on this idea like

• Restream to Twitch, but only acapella voices on Twitch or some other alternative
• All interaction is on Bilibili, Twitch chat is displayed on Twitch only
• No popup toasts for donations on EN side, only CN side so there's no display of interaction AT ALL on EN side for any ToS issues

I would normally argue against this on the basis of degrading EN experience, but in this case Twitch themselves as well as copyright law is degrading the EN experience

[drowsy vale]

At least next week karaoke is before the Sep 1st deadline and Vedal will have 2+ weeks to figure out his response.

Let's hope the Twitch + industry cut is not that big.

[tame jetty]

Or just wait it out and see how twitch responds to other creators

[drowsy vale]

I sure hope so.

[tame jetty]

The answer seems kinda shaky

[slender breach]

whats the bilibili handle?

[smoky saffron]

handle is Vedal和Neuro-sama
https://space.bilibili.com/3546729368520811 (for the profile link)

[severe pewter]

I feel so unconfortable

Vedal 和 Neuro-sama
should be better

[hushed pond]

I find a more detailed version about simulcasting :
https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/simulcasting-guidelines?language=en_US

It says for personal use it's okay to combine activities

And you may have an agreement with Twitch that requires exclusivity that may allow you to do this?

[limpid basin]

DougDoug does it with Youtube all the time too

[visual hill]

Would be interesting to do one BiliBili stream per week. Not Chinese but I think that having access to clips and seeing how that community interacts with Neuro would be interesting for the main channel. Though, that's my opinion as a lurker

To be precise, I meant that clips from BiliBili could be uploaded on the main channel as unique content which could offer some variety since I imagine that Chinese chatters may have their own vibe

[lyric yacht]

I never considered the perspective that bilibili exclusive streams could become entertainment for us too

[visual hill]

I mean tbh... Even beyond the potential for clips and new memes emerging from the Eastern community and stuff, personally, I really just wonder: wouldn't be interesting to have neuro learn Mandarin? And also how much interesting will her personality become with exposure to a Chinese chat?

So far, she's only exposed to primarly en/ western twitch chat for data but I wonder how she could developp with the influence of a Chinese audience

Also, Vedal could even perhaps host international chat competitions: BiliBili chat vs Twitch. To me, a BiliBili integration just presents so many more potential avenues of content for the community as a whole

[lyric yacht]

not sure about this one
DougDoug's rivalry between his twitch and youtube chats apparently got so bad he elected to stop simulcasting to youtube
https://www.reddit.com/r/DougDoug/comments/1bewvvq/dougdoug_antiyoutube_megathread/

But it would be neat seeing the communities work together for game jam stuff

[lyric yacht]

Perhaps we could look to multilingual streamers like Henya who try to cater to mutliple languages?

[warm moat]

Making each platform's communities compete against each other is probably not a good idea.
Bilibili's & Twitch chats are already isolated from each other (on stream) because of the platforms' policies, so an emphasize on the idea that they are not part of the same community and have to compete against each other is just a recipe to create conflictual factions within the community.

[visual hill]

True. Didn't necessarily think about it along those lines. That is indeed something that could happen. However, I think that it could still be interesting to find ways to have both chats interact with the streams, as it could bring more variety and fun interactions. The question however, is "how?", I guess

[warm moat]

Vedal will eventually ( ) have at least Bilibili interactions I think, though seeing how bad the queue was during the plane stream and some other streams, I still wonder how it's going to be if nothing is done and all the Twitch + Bilibili msg are all queued up together.

[tame jetty]

He could make the streams longer so more get read but the flight stream had a long queue cuz of tts

[warm moat]

if you just make the stream longer, you also allow more msg to be queued. unless he disables the queueing like 30 mins before the end of the stream, but then people need to be informed that their bits or channels points are going to be wasted after that point.

[main zinc]

Could raise min price of messages

[tame jetty]

He could implement something like that

[warm moat]

the prices already increased (for channel points at least)
if you keep increasing the price, even for bits, only the oilers will be able to send msg to Neuro. Although it may be the end goal 👏

[limpid basin]

That's already happening though. More and more of the messages are from the same people reducing variety

[visual hill]

hmmm... Maybe Vedal could introduce a news-style dono banner at the bottom of the stream. Basically, it will show the most recent donos on a rolling manner from left to right. Then, for higher value donos, ones q-rated by mods or Vedal himself, Neuro could read them. Though, I wouldn't really know how to that personally

Also, tbh, thinking about it more, this just seems like a pretty big problem that's not necessarily caused by the fact that Neuro has growing a bilibili presence, but mostly by the fact that her popularity is simply growing. I imagine that the problem would have probably still occurred with a larger mainly English-speaking fanbase. I'd argue that other human streamers may not have the same issue since some of them, don't always acknowledge every single donos or simply say "thank you" and move on. In comparison, from my limited understanding, it seems that Neuro currently, is set to read every single donos, sent to her. This method may have worked when she was a smaller streamer but now, it's probably not well suited. So I'd think that it would be more important to determine ways in which Neuro could better process and acknowledge donos in the future, as she continues growing. Just thoughts tho