Neuro Sama Survivors-like

[hard moth]

[cerulean bear]

Tbh, I kinda struggled with what to do for the swords too. The range is really good, except it's quite literally a double edged sword.

Slowing neuro down makes it harder for her to get close, and I have an idea on how to create distance between her and vedal so he can get out of the swords range. Anny has portal so she should be good with neuro taking longer to catch up.

The only other way I could think of is some kind of rework to the friendly fire system. I think I have a good idea for that, but it should probably be in a different update if it happens

I thinks it's a good place to start at least, seeing as she's faster than everyone else

[tired haven]

Requiring you to run away from Neuro to survive doesn't sound that good to me, with Evil there is no issue since Evil can't hit you unless you get close to her or get fireballs and stuff for her, but that stuff is very easy to dodge without affecting damage output, while for Neuro to be able to survive, you currently need to usually aim back, which causes a loss in damage from aiming, and I feel like even if you were able to outrun Neuro, not being able to stand still would become a disadvantage over Evil in the late game especially

It is also not very convenient for dodging enemies if Neuro runs slower than the collab partner, and dodging enemies is quite required with Neuro with Neuro having bad healing

[cerulean bear]

You can't really stand still with neuro because of the nukes and feathers as is

[tired haven]

But you can stop for a moment with either usually

Staggered movement is possible with Evil

I used it on my latest really good run

[cerulean bear]

Well honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how it is without friendly fire. It might be a bit strong, but I don't think it will be fireball levels of strong

[tired haven]

The main thing you would want that to apply to would be the swords, but the swords not doing damage kinda takes away from the unique thing the game has, so not sure about it

I guess the only way really would be to try and see what happens

Another possibility would be to make Neuro's swords have a "strong" and "weak" part, where the inner "strong" part does more damage and is the only part with friendly fire and is small enough that Vedal needs to actually move towards Neuro for it to deal damage

Something like that could be interesting

That way you could keep the range of the swords while keeping an element of friendly fire and you would also be adding a reason for it to exist in that way

(liiterally just came up with that idea)

[cerulean bear]

That's a pretty good idea. It's kinda like super smash bros where certain parts of attacks deal more damage

[hard moth]

[cerulean bear]

And yeah, I think the swords wouldn't be the best attack to remove friendly fire from. Would make more sense on the drones because they fly, and maybe feathers too

Also, having a couple of attacks without friendly fire is an indirect nerf to filtered, which is definitely one of the 3 best upgrades at the moment and is basically mandatory to have

I'm gonna do a couple anny + neuro runs, because I think it's my least played pairing

[hard moth]

I think yah someething along this idea can work.

[tired haven]

Yeah, you should definitely try that for next update

[tired haven]

No way

[cerulean bear]

I remembered you guys talking about not letting you have no upgrades that deal damage or something like that, so I tried it out lol. Almost survived 3 minutes like that

[tired haven]

Oh, that makes sense then

[hard moth]

I got a lot of 0 scores when I was doing testing cauz I wanted to end the game as fast as possible but they weren't uploaded. If they were the leaderboard will probably be full of 0 scores from me

[cold egret]

perhaps you should get a bit of score per time survived in endless mode, but not as much as you get for killing enemies, just so that you can attempt stuff like that no damage upgrades run and still get score for it :D

[tired haven]

Yeah, it would make sense for the next update to add some score for time survived

[hard moth]

I think I should yah. I already store recorded time so it shouldnt be too hard to somehow implement that into the score system

[upbeat edge]

Hi. I started playing this recently. Pretty fun! I haven’t played enough to feel very confident in suggesting many major changes, but I do have a few small nitpicks. Keep in mind this is from the perspective of someone who has not read the months worth of content in this forum, so, apologies if I say something that someone else already has/is already planned to be changed.

-There’s an inconsistency with effects referring exclusively to Neuro saying “AI” while effects referring exclusively to Evil say “Evil” (“The AI will chase after you closer” vs “Evil will stay further away from you”). It would be nice if it was consistent—so either Neuro’s effects should say Neuro, or Evil’s effects should say The AI.
-Vedal’s rum is very odd. It is thrown from his hand, until he throws one while you’re moving, where it will then begin to be thrown from the bottom left or bottom right of his hitbox. The direction it is thrown from is not based on which direction Vedal is facing, but rather the direction he was moving towards when he threw the last bottle (so if you turn around and stop moving, the bottle is thrown from behind him).
-There’s no visual indicator of how close you are to beating the stage. Which would be nice.
-Neuro’s Dual Strikes attacks where the cursor is pointing. Not that this is an issue or a bug, but it is the only case of you being able to control the AI’s attacks directly I think, and I don’t think it’s ever said in game, so it’s a bit odd. Might be nice to say that fact in the lv. 1 upgrade’s description.
-Evil’s Summon Circle slows collab partner. Makes sense with the friendly fire mechanics, but is inconsistent with the description “slow all enemies within range”.

The one important gameplay thing I’ll say for now is that Neuro’s Gaslight ability doesn’t mesh well with the fact she wants to be extremely close to the collab partner, and thus is likely to deal friendly fire damage. So whenever she diverts damage to the collab partner, they’re likely already more hurt than she is. It also makes cookies less useful since the collab partner will be taking most of the damage, but cannot use cookies. I think it’d be better if she only deflected damage if her health is less than her collab partner’s. Maybe she could even take damage for her collab partner if her health is higher? I dunno.

Essaying indeed neurobot

[hard moth]

thank you for the detailed review!

yah the descriptions need a long awaited update

and gaslight is kinda funny but basically has no synergy with anything

will take into account in the Balancing & Achievements Update

[upbeat edge]

👍

[cerulean bear]

I never really caught any of those inconsistencies lol. Gaslight does have a bit of synergy with anny due to her HP regen.

I think once the changes are made to the swords, gaslight will become better due to not having so much of your health gone already.

If you're already good at dodging, I think gaslight is kind of worth getting. Neuro is more likely to die before you, and it's a 30% chance for her to negate incoming damage

Actually, one thing I have noticed is that Vedal is slightly faster than neuro when you run in a straight line. It takes a few seconds, but you can actually use the swords better if you do that

[tired haven]

Oh yeah, I forgot how gaslight is one of the upgrades that makes Neuro very bad in endless mode too at least with the current friendly fire system, especially with raise the timer

[tired haven]

Yeah, it kinda just is an update that doesn't work that well in endless mode if you are getting all the upgrades

[hard moth]

ok so I started making some ideas about the balancing.

My current idea to balance Neuro is to create a separate upgrade where if you are within a certain radius of Neuro, her attacks will not do any damage to you. Even if you leave this area you will still be immune for a couple seconds until it wears off

[tired haven]

You need to be close to Neuro? How close exactly?

My idea was to make it so being far enough away makes the swords specifically not do damage

But enemies that far away also take less damage

[hard moth]

didnt really think that far yet

[tired haven]

So that if you're within the normal distance Neuro and the collab partner keep, you will be safe to aim however you want, but going too much closer will make you get hit

And enemies within that smaller range will also take more damage

Making that part a "strong" part of the sword swing

[hard moth]

hmm

or oh mabe the first hit you don't get hit, but the second hit you get hit?

since she does two strikes

[tired haven]

No, that would still be too limiting and confusing for aiming

[hard moth]

true and it would be a nightmare to implement programming wise

[tired haven]

The two range idea is what I think would work as the best balance between keeping friendly fire for the swords and being able to aim

[hard moth]

Might try this idea

seems the most simple to implement

[tired haven]

Yeah, I would recommend that

Make sure the range where you start taking damage from Neuro's swords is small enough that it's smaller than the radius at which the collab partner is at their closest with all upgrades

I think that should work for balancing the swords and making Neuro much better to play with

Except for stuff like the gaslight + raise the timer combo which you're basically forced to get if you're on endless, maybe make the damage from raise the timer not be gaslight-able

Currently having all of the upgrades for Neuro is really not viable

Which is bad for endless mode

[hard moth]

ill probably just make gaslight not have that drawback of redirecting damage or redirect damage back to the enemy

[tired haven]

That would likely make it a lot more powerful, so you might have to adjust it somewhat in that case, just making it not count damage from raise the timer would be much simpler (AKA it does nothing with that damage and it gets applied to Neuro as normal)

Although making Neuro more powerful is the goal, so I guess you can try it

Since currently Neuro is not viable for high scores

[hard moth]

yah buffing Neuro is ultimately the goal since rn she is the weakest character to use

Ill probably dial back down gaslight numbers but want to try sending damage back to the enemy

[tired haven]

Yeah, you'll likely have to experiment with stuff

Also, let me know when you want me to implement the achievement storage serverside or something

Should be simple to do myself now that I have references for HTTP stuff

[cerulean bear]

Honestly I don't ever take raise the timer no matter what. It just kills you between waves unless you avoid picking up exp. It also just reduces your total bulk.

The best idea I've had to save the upgrade would be to have it drain 1% of her health per second, giving her 100 seconds instead of 45. Buffing the healing would also help. Maybe 1/1.25/1.5 would be good? Lastly, adding a limit so it doesn't kill her. Having it not take her below 10% HP gives her 90 seconds instead of 100, but at least a healing upgrade won't kill her. It also emulates the last hour of the subathon

I had the idea for this one really quickly, but it also made me realize having an upgrade that heals you also damage you is kinda counter intuitive, but maybe it can be made to work. If it doesn't, it would make for a cool game mode tbh

[tired haven]

Last time I tried, it was perfectly fine to play with, but that was before endless mode, I assume that might have changed, so yeah, I feel like those changes could be good

[cerulean bear]

It always killed me even before endless lol. you have to pick up at least 2 gears a second to do any actual healing, and you also have something else to manage. you can't freely level up, and have to limit your movement to avoid picking them up when you dont want to

[hard moth]

hmm maybe I should uncap maximum health for that specific upgrade

[tired haven]

I was able to play with it just fine

[tired haven]

Interesting idea, maybe you should still make sure it can't kill you though

[hard moth]

that too

[tired haven]

That upgrade could definitely use some improvements, especially with endless mode added

[cerulean bear]

if you do uncap max health for it, maybe it has reduced healing past max health? just in case the healing ends up being too good and she has like 300 health somehow

[hard moth]

mabe yah that could be a way to balance the upgrade out

[cerulean bear]

i doubt it would reach quite that high, but it might be a tad op otherwise

[hard moth]

subathon timers tend to go above and beyond expectations

[cerulean bear]

somehow there's now a neuro score over 8.5k

[meager ember]

if i don't update the leaderboards it's not real

[cerulean bear]

it's not their highest score so it won't show there

[tired haven]

Yeah, maybe diminishing returns past max health

[tired haven]

It is in the in-game leaderboard

[cerulean bear]

btw, is it just me or am i hearing neuro say "heart" in the music for farm? i only noticed it a few days ago and forgot to ask lol

[tired haven]

Yeah, it is part of the track I think

[hard moth]

Erm I never heard it myself

[tired haven]

I hear it all the time

[cerulean bear]

so im not crazy, good to know lol

also, it kinda feels weird to see neuro running with her swords now that we can select the starting upgrades

[tired haven]

I assume the sprite was not designed with that feature in mind

[cerulean bear]

i can't imagine it was lol

[tired haven]

Anyone had login issues?

[hard moth]

or other issues like a popup saying a score sending failed or something like that?

[hard moth]

https://kotgedev.itch.io/neuro-adventures

Ok welp if you ever have such issues, please update to the newest client! Its been patched. It is recommended you use the latest client even if you haven't encountered an issue just in case.

[cerulean bear]

Oh, I did yesterday! I lost some good anny/neuro scores to that. Including a 7.5k one

[hard moth]

ohh sadge

Erm

hopefully with this patch it never happens again

but if it ever happens again please feel free to alert me

or super

[cerulean bear]

It's ok. I managed to beat it anyway, and get it on there

Will do

[cerulean bear]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-dragon-ball-z-unlimited-power-over9000-power-level-gif-12316102

I had to do the meme lol

[tired haven]

There seems to have been an issue with refreshing access tokens, and for some reason I guess your token expired and since it was unable to refresh it, it was unable to upload the score

Should be fixed in the latest pair of patches

[cerulean bear]

It was probably because my dad was downloading something, but yesterday was the first time this happened. He basically had all the internet speed which maybe caused it to timeout?

[tired haven]

I saw in the server logs there were issues with token refreshing

That was a serverside implementation error

[hard moth]

yah should be fixed in the latest

[cerulean bear]

Huh, yeah it did kinda persist afterwards, and it wanted me to log out and in again

[hard moth]

yup that kind of proves it

[tired haven]

That makes sense

Corresponds to what we had in the server logs

[hard moth]

In the scenario that there is an error like this, the solution is to log in and out again which manually refreshes the tokens, hence I put that pop up just in case I messed up the refresh token stuff, which apparently, I did mess up

but now, with the latest patch, the refresh should be automatic

[tired haven]

Yeah, it should hopefully work now

[hard moth]

[cerulean bear]

I'll probably download it later because I only woke up like 20 minutes ago

[hard moth]

yah, no worries

Basically the TLDR of the issue is that when you log in using discord after a certain amount of time the login needs to be kept alive by 'refreshing'. It is supposed to be automatic, but I messed something up and it didn't happen. With the fix this refresh should happen automatically when you send your score.

[tired haven]

Well, I guess what matters is that it should be fixed now, let me know whenever you decide it's a good time to implement the achievement backup stuff

[cerulean bear]

Meme time
https://youtu.be/ZhgP-hxGdGs

[hard moth]

btw if anyone finds a button that does not have a sfx attached to it please feel free to tell me and ill fix

[cerulean bear]

i just got done recording another meme idea, but after the setup and actually doing it, i realized i forgot to make sure obs was recording this version of the game

also, i made it so people can now see when i'm playing by checking my profile

i have to update that each update too tho

side note, my fps was higher than usual. i was getting around 33-34 at the start and like 28 to 30 around level 17-18

[hard moth]

hmm, so mabe my slight optimization worked

[cerulean bear]

i usually have about 23 to 24? i don't remember exactly, but its definitely higher

👍
https://youtu.be/U89274cgVas

[upbeat edge]

“Your scores only” toggle does not have a sound effect (but that’s also not really a button so idk if that counts).

Hovering over scores does not have a sound effect. If that counts as a button.

Exit button in Characters tab does not have a sound effect. Exit button from each character’s upgrades also do not have sound effects.

Upgrades in each character’s upgrades do not have sound effects.

Difficulty select does not have a sound effect.

Exit button for map select does not have a sound effect. Exit button for character select also does not have a sound effect.

Hovering over characters, both in the Characters tab and before starting a game, does not have a sound effect. If those count as buttons.

Nothing in the pause menu has a sound effect. Not even the settings menu, which does have sound effects normally.

Upgrade selection/reroll button has no sound effects. NTX 4090 also has no sound effects.

Quit button when finishing a map does not have a sound effect.

[upbeat edge]

So anyways while I was busy throwing my runs, I noticed a bug. In the first screenshot you can see my level is 65, but on the leaderboard, it says my level was 56. The other two stats are consistent so I'm not sure why that one's wrong.

[hard moth]

hmm, noted, ill try looking into it. The levels has caused some issues before.

[tired haven]

Just booted up the latest version and for some reason the menu music sounds pitched up, could just be me though, or somehow it was sped up or something, I have no idea (I haven't touched the game in a bit)

Yeah, I feel like all music is sped up in the latest version by a major amount

Might even extend to all audio

[viral talon]

Audio doesnt seem pitch up to me

[hard moth]

things also seem fine for me

[tired haven]

Well, for some reason it sounded sped up to me, and I usually notice small things like that with audio, although in this case it could also easily just be the long break I have taken from the game or something, who knows

[cerulean bear]

so about that doc I had mentioned... I may have forgotten about it . I wound up losing the motivation, but it was something I was doing on a whim anyways

also, music sounds normal to me

[hard moth]

yah dw about it

[tulip frost]

Probably been asked before but this is all in GDScript right?

[hard moth]

Yah

[tulip frost]

Studying programming right now, figured I might learn a thing or two if I experiment with godot in the future

I still have the link to the github so I can check that if need be

[tired haven]

Yeah, the Godot client is all GDScript, with the server in Kotlin

[tulip frost]

There is a C# version as well you can get

[tired haven]

Well, Godot is designed for GDScript, so that is what Neuro adventures uses
Kotge wrote the client anyway, I did most of the serverside

[tulip frost]

Oh sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant Godot as a program is GDscript only, my bad

[tired haven]

Yeah, no, that is not what I was saying, I know it supports other languages

[hard moth]

Btw with GDExtension you can also use C++ with Godot

[tired haven]

I wonder if it's compiled as C++-like native code or something else

I assume Godot usually compiles to something like .NET, since it's so easy to decompile losslessly

[hard moth]

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/scripting/gdextension/what_is_gdextension.html

[tired haven]

Seems like just linking in DLLs or something

[hard moth]

Yah, so no need to compile the entire engine every time you change something, only the extension

[tired haven]

Yeah, makes sense to me

Pretty interesting

I assume that would make it possible to link in a thing using LibTorch or something to use AI in Godot

[hard moth]

Theres apparently even Kotlin bindings, so if you really want for whatever reason you can use Kotlin with Godot.

[tired haven]

Interesting

Very interesting

Well, I can probably manage GDScript and I want to learn C++ anyway (already kinda started)

[hard moth]

Im gonna hav to learn C++ if I want to pass my midterms

[tired haven]

Well, it doesn't seem too complex to me, at least so far, it's gonna take some learning though, it's definitely a bit more complex than Kotlin

[hard moth]

Once im familiar enough w c++ i might attempt to move some of the heavy stuff over to c++ and see if that improves performance

I.e. enemy movement and detection

[tired haven]

Makes sense to me, just make sure that in case it makes additional DLLs, you include those in the uploaded package

I can try to help with it if you want, I understand at least something about C++ and stuff like avoiding memory leaks

[upbeat edge]

I was one level away from reaching level 69 in endless mode before I died this is awful

Anyways hehehe

[tired haven]

Oh wow, I haven't even managed a 30K range score yet and people are already getting 40K range scores

[upbeat edge]

Simply pick anny + eliv get all the upgrades and then run around in a circle for an hour mhm

[tired haven]

That is what I have been trying to do I guess

I guess I need to get better at dodging or something, not sure

We'll see whenever I next attempt this game again

[upbeat edge]

Yea

Dodging becomes very important later on when enemies will wipe out a third of your health by grazing them. Portal gun can be useful to escape as well

[tired haven]

Will have to try to get better I guess

[upbeat edge]

gl

[tired haven]

We'll see once I play this game again, I've been playing Satisfactory for a while now on my server since 1.0 released

[cerulean bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1110199900114780182/1124131624360083607/this_is_fine.gif

[upbeat edge]

Yo guys look I reached level 69 and level 420 and level 727

And here's the leaderboard score for (a very similar test) run.

So I think I found the problem with the leaderboard level desync bug from last time.

_on_collect_exp increments lv (the real level variable) and calls get_random_upgrades

get_random_upgrades calls send_random_upgrades

send_random_upgrades increments display_level

_on_reroll_button_pressed also calls get_random_upgrades --> send_random_upgrades --> increment display_level, but does NOT call _on_collect_exp to increment the real lv.

This causes a desync as the leaderboard uses the real lv and not the displayed one.

[hard moth]

got it, will patch next update

[hard moth]

Evil harpoon upgrade

(Included next update)

[elfin pike]

this gonna be fun

[tired haven]

Is next update gonna have the achievement storage on the server too?

Just let me know when you want the server implementation for it

[hard moth]

Im just collecting what I should update for now, actual update probably won't happen until my midterms are over (a couple weeks from now)

[tired haven]

Ok then, I can wait, I have a lot of cool stuff to do like making Evil covers and once the new Neuro model is ready probably Neuro covers too

[cerulean bear]

Btw, something I thought of while working on the doc that could be an April fools joke. What if anny's stars were changed to fish? Would be funny if permanent for nesus

[tired haven]

That would require some stuff on the server probably, but it would be funny

[upbeat edge]

I always bring only the most useful of reports. Anyways I think all the max level collectible upgrades only have a 4% chance to drop their respective collectible instead of the 5% advertised? The collectible_upgrade's sync_level matches the drop chance with these vars but. None of the collectible upgrades. Have a level 5.

[hard moth]

Yah my mistake I should change the max levels to 5.

Also feel free to share anything of note you find, its always helpful

Currently, TODO for the next update:

• Evil and Anny related Achievements, and more achievements in general. Current ideas that have been suggested here:
  • Loving Mother (Anny achieve. Must stay in proximity to the AI.)
  • Anny are you OK (No damage Anny run)
• Ability for achievements to be saved
• Balancing
  • Dual strike is too hard to use. Most likely this will be done by reducing Collab partner hit range
  • Neuro upgrades in general requires improvement. Angel wings will probably be replaced or receive a buff, etc. Gaslight may redirect damage to enemy not Vedal and raise the timer may be uncapped. Idk will test things out.
• New Upgrades
  • One new Neuro upgrade (idk yet)
  • Harpoon for Evil
• Bug fixes
  • lvl inconsistency bug fix
  • max collecitible level bug fix
  • Bunch of buttons don't have a sfx

Please feel free to ping me if I'v missed anything. This is my to-do list for once my midterms are over.

[cerulean bear]

Achievement: Left For Milk

Vedal must stay a certain distance away from Evil (with a 5ish second allowance at the start to create distance)

Also, the ability to track achievements would be a nice touch, although probably better to add when there are more achievements to add. Would be helpful if it activated the range for Loving Mother and potentially Left For Milk.

For angel wings, I feel it should get somewhat of a rework too. It's annoying as heck when there are like 5 enemies closer to her than me, and she only targets me with like 7 shots in a row.

Instead of shooting feathers in seemingly random directions, it could shoot a spread of feathers like a shotgun that preferably don't target you. (That makes more sense on the nukes anyway.) Also, level 1 feathers hit multiple enemies if they spawn on them, making level 2 feel like it does nothing at times.

For comparison, it currently shoots up to 2 feathers, hitting up to 3 each and can do up to 18 damage per hit. Fireball shoots up to 20 at 4 enemies each for 12 damage a hit.

As for upgrade levels, this is what I've been thinking

Level 1: 1 feather hits up to 3
Level 2: +1 feather
Level 3 and 4: no change
Level 5: +1 or +2 pierce
Level 6: +1 feather
This would be 3 feathers that hit up to 4/5 enemies for 18 (might be a tad strong if fired in a spread, but idk)

Alternatively, shuffling around the feathers and pierce might look like this

Level 1: 2 feathers hit 1 enemy each
Level 2: +1 or +2 pierce
Level 5: +1 feather
Level 6: +2 or +1 pierce

I essay too easily

[upbeat edge]

You could also just remove the lv5_chance and make the lv4_change be 0.05

Also achievement idea: "just dodge lol", win a game with Evil's Fireball upgrade at max level and having NO levels of Filter.

[hard moth]

[cold egret]

I think this glitch was already known about, but in case this helps, I testify as a witness to neuro glitching through walls

[tired haven]

Woah, that one should definitely not happen

[cerulean bear]

Think they'd be good at hurdles?

[hard moth]

Ok looking through it I dont think its a glitching through wall problem but rendering order problem.

Essentially Evil is on the other side of the fence but at first its rendering as if Evil is on Anny's side cause of rendering issues that I should be able to fix

Though that doesnt explain why the pathing changed...

[cold egret]

oh, interesting

[finite hull]

Letsgooo https://fxtwitter.com/MapleGecko/status/1848484605331943568?t=mWEcGBLH5eDiOSTjiL6oXA&s=19

[hard moth]

midterms done will I get a chance to finally work on this? i huv no clue since I also kinda wanna join the halloween drawing contst. But might put aside some time to work on the update

[tired haven]

Ok then
Let me know when you need stuff on the serverside
Also, I might borrow the Discord OAuth stuff for Neuro TCG at some point

Figuring out the Godot stuff is gonna be the hardest part in finishing that for me
I'm more of a backend dev, like is seen with how quickly I can put stuff on the server for Neuro adventures if needed

[fading fractal]

the ais definitely need better ways to defend themselves, also evil just runs through the horde and dies

[tired haven]

Sounds like a slight skill problem, at least with Evil + Anny

You gotta actually walk in such a way you control where the AI goes

That's basically the whole gimmick of the game, playing while keeping track of and accounting for the AI

Starting off takes some getting used to
Once you get the hang of things, it works quite well

[fading fractal]

i do try to

however, sometimes it's just not possible to properly guide her

[tired haven]

It just requires learning, it's basically the main challenge in the game to keep track of the AI

[hard moth]

Iv decided to some aside some time every week to work on this, so some progress might be made. I want to try and get this update done before the end of the year

Aside from my list neuro and evil will probably get 2-3 new upgrades, im hoping it will help out with the balancing

So, if anyone has upgrade ideas, would be appreciated (Evil already has harpoon)

[cerulean bear]

I'm just glad to know that it's not coming out in a week or two lol. Magic survival should be dropping a new update very soon, and I'm already hyped for that. Though I think Korea gets 2 weeks of beta first

[hard moth]

Mabe I should play that for inspiration

[cerulean bear]

I did have ideas for a pair of upgrades actually. I was thinking they could be ultimate abilities with more powerful effects, but long cooldowns

Lava lamp and plasma globe were what I was gonna have them be for

And to further make them special, I was thinking that the last level of the upgrade could have 2 or 3 options.

My idea for lava lamp for example was a healing ability that would heal a portion of both characters with a semi long cooldown.

For the final level, one path would buff the healing and shorten the cooldown,

another path would turn off friendly fire for a short while in addition to the healing (alternatively, instead of healing, friendly fire turns into healing. Though the AI won't benefit)

The third path would grant a couple layers of a stacking shield to both every time you use it, with a cap (also in addition to the healing)

I had forgotten some of the details, so it took me a bit

You can only take one of the 3 of course. It would help make each run a bit more unique

[cerulean bear]

If you have the time, I'd say go for it. Afaik, it's the game that inspired vampire survivors

(it also has a fireball fusion that functions very similarly to evil's fireball )

[hard moth]

Hem, plasma globe seems like a good name for an offensive attack

[cerulean bear]

Yeah, that was the idea I had for it. A fairly long cooldown, but a powerful AOE attack centered on evil (preferably without friendly fire, as it would likely demolish the player unless they have filtered maxed )

The one path I remember was to have it give a big damage buff to her for a time and maybe the collab partner too, instead of the attack (basically supercharging her). Alternatively, keeping the attack and giving a small damage buff afterwards works too.

Another idea for a path could be that the attack stuns enemies for a couple seconds

Another path could give evil a damaging aura of electricity for a short while after

[tired haven]

Cool, let me know when you want to integrate more serverside functionality

[meager ember]

welcome back kotge! lemme know what you need pinned whenever :)

[hard moth]

Will need that for the achievements saving yah, though im gonna balance the game first and fix all the bugs since the achievements rely on them

[hard moth]

Will do, realized your a mod now

[tired haven]

Well, assuming the achievement system is independent from the rest of the game code, it should be possible to do the achievement stuff whenever

[hard moth]

I guess the server part can be worked on whenever. I just need a system like the uploading scores one, except instead of scores its

Sending list of achievements of user
Fetching list of achievements of user

[tired haven]

Yeah, should be easy
Just another endpoint like /achievements that always requires auth to access

Maybe I'll try to work on it later today
Seems like it should be easy enough, I just have to store lists of achievements, where I can make achievements into an Achievement class

Then just a bunch of serialization and deserialization, and a couple request handling functions

And of course the auth check on the API endpoint will be in the handle function this time instead of the addScore function, so you always gotta send auth to that endpoint to use it

[tired haven]

Do you want to store some kind of progress variable with each achievement to easily be able to save stuff like achievements that require something to be done multiple times?

@hard moth ?

[hard moth]

Might come useful, so yah

[tired haven]

I'll store that then
It'll just be a Long value
I'll send you the spec once I'm done with it

[cerulean bear]

I have a few ideas for a giraffe related upgrade. I was trying to come up with a giraffe plush upgrade other than the one below, but didn't manage to think of more good concepts for a plush. Plushies aren't exactly known for being weapons after all. The rest I came up with while on that train of thought and figured I may as well share them.

1. Plush Decoy: Neuro throws a giraffe plush that distract nearby enemies for a short time, or until destroyed.

Would probably work better as an ability, as if it's automatic she might throw it in a problematic spot, and potentially be kinda janky to use if aim-able like vedal's rum.

Upgrades could affect things like cooldown, duration, range, cap on distracted enemies, explosion after expiring.

2. Giraffe Form: Neuro turns into a giraffe for a short time, granting giraffe related abilities. Should probably have a longer cooldown. (Inspiration from TierZoo's "Are Giraffes OP?")

Possible abilities include:
-Additional speed
-Short range kick that hits a small number of enemies. Could have a lower damage with knockback and possibly a stun, or just higher damage with no effects
-Damage reduction (Giraffes have long enough legs that even lions struggle to get good damage in)
-Ability to eat nearby cookies when damaged/below an HP threshold

3. Giraffe Onesie: Grants Neuro a temporary shield bar. (I was trying to make it plushie related, but I couldn't find a way for it to make sense, lol)

4. Pet Giraffe(s): Gives Neuro a pet giraffe (possibly multiple) that follows her, kicking nearby enemies.

5. Giraffe Stampede: Periodically spawns a stampede of giraffes that run in a random direction (or the direction she is running (likely better, but more dangerous)). Would be absolutely hilarious if the spawning animation involved them coming out of fridges

Of these 5 Ideas, Plush Decoy (assuming it is an ability) would probably have a somewhat higher skill cap, but pretty fun mechanic-wise.

Personally, I'm torn between the wackiness of Giraffe Form, and Giraffe Stampede because the idea of them running out of the fridges is too funny

[hard moth]

[tired haven]

I'm just gonna assume there hasn't really been any progress recently with anything

[hard moth]

Nope not really I keep using my free time on art instead but im almost done w my piece

And winter break starts in less then a month, so I should have time then.

[tired haven]

Let me know if you need help with anything like the server
I've also recently been going into audio synthetization, so if you need that, I might be able to do something

[cerulean bear]

Abandoned Adventures

[tired haven]

That could work as a map idea I guess: Abandoned archive themed map

[hard moth]

Inb4 I get sued by Vedal

[cerulean bear]

Just call it abandoned annals

[hard moth]

Thinking of mabe giving the player the option to toggle betwee Neuro / Evil following the player / not following. With cooldown ofc. Feels like it will help a lot with the balancing issues, I might experiment with it.

And along with the current update ill probably do a minor map & enemies redesign, to match the new upgrades.

Will experiment

Internal deadline for the update is before the end of the year, im gonna lock in on developing this game & Neuro TCG as soon as my finals are done (in like 1.5 weeks from now)

[tired haven]

Interesting idea, but what will the Neuros do when left alone?

Or when set to not follow

[hard moth]

probably just stay in place? Like a turret in tower defence games

would be too confusing to have her move around I think, and theres some survivors-like I know of that implements tower-defence like mechanics

[tired haven]

Interesting
Could be very powerful with Evil

[upbeat edge]

It'd be useful in the early game where you don't have many levels of filter, potentially moreso for neuro than evil since she just attacks the collab partner half the time. Later in the game though, enemies just swarm (lol) you, and keeping the ai moving is necessary to keep them alive because they get killed by like 4 hits, so eventually it'd even out. At least for evil anyways, I haven't played enough with neuro in endless to know. So it's probably balanced, I think.

[tired haven]

Neuro is currently fairly underpowered

[hard moth]

that will be fixed, definetly, I have a lot of upgrades lined up for Neuro + the fixes.

[cerulean bear]

the AI movement toggle definitely would be useful, especially in tandem with anny's teleport. Could even be turned into an upgrade or something at some point.

There could also be achievements for beating maps where the AI is stationary the whole time, or surviving a certain amount of time in endless like that. Proximity based achievements should probably require the AI to follow you though

[hard moth]

Yar definetly gonna hav some achievements tied to the new mechanic

[sharp meadow]

Im sure this has already been brought up but what if we made this neuro compatible

Idk who we is in that sentence but

[hard moth]

hemmm

I guess if bucketshot rullet can be made Neuro compatible this can be too

would be a bit wierd tho

Neuro controlling either Vedal / Anny with ' Neuro ' following them around.

it would make sense tho to somehow hook Neuro up with Neuro

so she'll be moving around with her AI instead of just following, might be interesting.

but I don't think Vedal knows this project exists so... a pipe dream for now.

[cerulean bear]

I guess it's time for a bit of advertising then. If more neurons play the game, Vedal might show interest

[tired haven]

Making this game Neuro compatible is not feasible due to this game's real time gameplay style

[cerulean bear]

I can do a run on normal and stick the video in #gaming . That would probably get at least a few people interested

[tired haven]

Neuro can really only play games that don't have time based limitations or that have very lenient limitations on her API

That is the limitation of her LLM speed apparently allowing her to only run at "3Hz"

Which I assume means she can do 3 full completions per second

Something along those lines

[opal terrace]

It is still possible, if she doesn't directly control her movement, but sets longer actions for herself (e.g. follow player, go to some position, run in circle, ...)

[tired haven]

That would likely not be flexible enough for her to go around enemies in real time

There's no real feasible way to make Neuro play the game with her API in a way that would be flexible enough for her to do well with it

[cerulean bear]

Well even if Neuro can't, there's a chance we could get Vedal to play it during the subathon maybe? (I should probably lay off the )

[tired haven]

Well, he did play my Portal 2 mod, so who knows

[hard moth]

To be honest I dont really want Vedal or too much people playing this game before I have completed my rework (i.e. next update)

Dont wanna show an incomplete game

[cerulean bear]

fair enough

I was debating waiting for it before trying to get more people playing, hoping Vedal would take notice and let Neuro play anyway. Although I guess that's not possible so

[tired haven]

Getting Neuro to play is technically possible, but she can't do it with her LLM trough the API, it would need a dedicated model, and knowing Vedal, that would be too much work for him and he doesn't like doing that a lot any more it seems

[hard moth]

First commit in three months I got all the bugs fixed ( I think )

[hard moth]

indicates what I'm currently working on.

• stats refractor
• pathfinding rewrite
• specifications
• Achievements rework + More achievements
• Setup client for achievement saving
• Ability to switch follow / not follow modes.
• ~~Balancing ~~
• ~~Directives ~~
• New Upgrades

[cerulean bear]

couple things/thoughts

Uncapped raise the timer? CURSE OF THE TIME GOD 38 YEARS!

Infinite pierce may be kinda strong (like old fireball) but should be fine if there's some drawback, like lower damage, slower cooldown, or a short range for some examples. Though unlike fireball it wont be 20 projectiles, so

What about teleport's out of bounds bug?

[hard moth]

oh errrr

gonna fix it now

[cerulean bear]

tbh, I almost forgot about it myself lol

[hard moth]

I "fixed" it by just setting position to the closest legal area if you press out of bounds, it should work, I think

idk why I didn't do this before its literally a single line of code change

[tired haven]

Yeah, I assume that should also fix the teleport being way too strict

[hard moth]

yah this way you always teleport, its just if your out of bounds its going to be the closest legal area

[tired haven]

Seems like a good way to do the teleport system

Just make sure no out of bounds coordinate is valid

Once you get to making the client part of the achievement backup, let me know if there's issues or if there's something you would want to add or change with it

[hard moth]

alr ill prob do that tom or the day after

[tired haven]

Alright then

[tulip frost]

Is there anything you could use some help with? Even If i don't have much to bring i'm still curious just in case

[cold egret]

sfx mentioned!!! That's my thing :D

I know you already have an sfx for buttons but if you need any more sfx for anything, please let me know!

[hard moth]

I might need more sfx for the new upgrades, so will do

[hard moth]

More help will always be appreciated

Firstly I am far from a professional developer, so a lot of how I implemented things is questionable, so if there are better ways to implement things in the game, suggestions will be helpfull.

Secondly, it would be great to have some help in implementing the upgrades since rn I have to both draw the sprites + dev. If you are interested in implementing some of them Id be happy to write down a doc on how-to and provide more detailed specifications

[tulip frost]

Oh I'm far from a proper dev either, but i'm always happy to at least try to see if it's possible

[upbeat edge]

you need programmers you say?
I'm a bit busy with school at the moment and I'll probably be spending most of my energy on the neuro inscryption mod I'm also working on once I'm done my schoolwork, but I can probably lend a hand with some of the upgrades once I refresh myself on how they work

[tired haven]

If you need anything more on the serverside, let me know
I also know something about audio stuff I guess

(I can replicate both Neuro and Evil's voices quite accurately and make covers and songs and such with those)

[hard moth]

Alr will get started working on the docs & specifications

[hard moth]

Conducting reserch for more upgrade ideas

[hard moth]

More ideas
Evil : metal pipe (rains down on region)
Neur : tin cans (stream of bullets), bat (launches to a direction spinning)

[tired haven]

With the tin cans upgrade you could make a very silly achievement where you just copy the name from the tin cans thing from Neuro rants

[cerulean bear]

And you get to play the new update before me . I had to settle for conquering the leaderboard in the meantime

Also, I had an idea for a sound effects upgrade too. They could maybe both get it?

Upgrade idea: Sound Effects

Plays a random sound effect, granting a temporary buff. Different sound effects give different buffs.

[hard moth]

Hem now I wanna add upgrade fusions tho dont wanna feature creap so definetly not this update

[tired haven]

Interesting

[cerulean bear]

Nice

[cerulean bear]

I've been low-key avoiding suggesting fusions . I'm pretty sure vampire survivors also has fusions iirc. So I've kinda been trying to think of other ways to add diversity in builds. Same thing with artifacts, although I wasn't focusing on anything like that yet

But yeah, definitely not a decision for a while at least

If you do decide to add fusions, then here's an idea before I forget it. Pizza + knife and you get pizza knife

Like pizza cutters

[tired haven]

I wonder how much more server integration there will be in the future

Would be cool to know any plans there are with the server in the future

[hard moth]

Hmm, for now (as long as the achievements saving works, I havent tested it just yet) everything is done, but in the future, if I add things like in game currency to lvl up characters, I guess those will also need saving server-wise, but thats only an idea for now

[tired haven]

Ok then
Just let me know if you need anything on the server

[hard moth]

Ok hoping to finish the specifications by either tomarrow or the day after, this is near my finals week so im pretty busy but I think I can get it done. I also want to do a little bit of minor refractoring so the upgrade implementation isn't too much of a mess so things might take a bit longer

but, if done, this should basically double the amount of upgrades

[tired haven]

I assume you have some sort of upgrade base class all the upgrades inherit from or something to make it easier to add upgrades by just making classes for the new upgrades the extend the basic functionality of an upgrade (being obtainable, having a name, having an icon and so on)

[hard moth]

I do, plus I have made Upgrades a custom resource so making a new upgrade is easy as filling out a form. The hard part is the actual mechanics ofc.

[cerulean bear]

What are the limitations? Surely I can't just toss over any upgrade idea and it would work without issue

[tired haven]

Cool, sounds like a very system

[hard moth]

It is im pretty proud of it tho some parts can be improved

[tired haven]

In programming there is always something that can be improved (usually making things faster)

[cerulean bear]

Latency!

[tired haven]

There should be some silly Vedal specific upgrade like "latency update" which makes whichever AI is following Vedal shoot a tiny bit faster (like 0.1 seconds faster)

[hard moth]

The limitation is the field for an UpgradeScene class, which is the actual thing that gets added to the character. I.e. for fireball it would be an UpgradeScene class with a set of code that generates and fires fireballs. The limitation is if you can write this code or not.

And the part that takes the most time

[cerulean bear]

Fair enough

[cerulean bear]

This would be completely busted, I can already tell

[hard moth]

Oh I already had plans for that

[cerulean bear]

Even 3 levels would be a 20% cd reduction on fireball

As an example

[hard moth]

Latency upgrade, reduces fire downtime by x %

For any upgrade

[tired haven]

It would also make it harder to dodge

[hard moth]

The only issue is that it would require some refractoring for this to be generally applicable to all upgrades which is why Iv put it off for now

But I recently figured out a way to do it

I can make a custom Timer class that will be affected by the latency upgrade, and use that for all upgrades instead of the normal Timer

[cerulean bear]

So essentially a separate reduction

[hard moth]

Yar, upgrades can have their own cooldown reduction upgrade, and Latency will take a percentage off of that as the base

Iv also thought of a Ram upgrade but idk what itll give.

Mabe ill save it for the future when I implement something close to Fusions and allow for multiple of them idk

[cerulean bear]

Maybe you choose an upgrade and it boosts that upgrades stats a bit? Boosts would be dependent on the upgrade, and not every upgrade can get it

[hard moth]

Ok I think I got a pretty cool alternative to fusions, and should be easier to implement.

A 'dev stream' you can use once per game.

Allows you to upgrade the stats:
Damage, Cooldown, Quantity, Accuracy for a (offensive) upgrade of choice. <accuracy reduces damage of that particular upgrade to the collab pattner>

How each stats are increased is dependent on the max level upgrades you have.

Each upgrade has an affinity to one of the three. For example,

Max INuke6000 -> Damage Affinity
Max Cookies -> Accuracy Afinity

If you have both, and you use 'dev stream' on "Dual Strike" it will get increased damage and reduced damage towards the collaber.

Quantity will be converted to Cooldown afinity for upgrades whoes quantity cannot change.

An idea for now

[tired haven]

Interesting I guess
By the way, is there plans for more endless mode infinite upgrades?

[hard moth]

Prob yah

[tired haven]

Could go for simple stuff like simple stat increasing upgrades with some names like "enhanced memory speed" or something (just a random one, not exactly what you should use) for something like an attack speed upgrade or something

[cerulean bear]

Definitely seems interesting.

The problem I find with fusions in magic survival is that there isn't much in the way of customization, the exception being magic bolt because you can select an attribute at level 4 and level 7.

There was a time in that game where fusions were removed, and implemented into many of the level 7 attributes. They all had level 4 attributes at the time as well. You could mix and match attributes like you currently can with magic bolt

I think something similar to this might be more fun, although more difficult to balance

[hard moth]

Having a lot of divergent upgrades also seem valid, I can see some uogrades having two pathways, one more dangerous but higher damage but the other weaker but safer for the collab partner

[cerulean bear]

Yeah. I suggested some ideas for lava lamp and plasma globe for example. Some could make the upgrade a bit stronger, some could add utility, or even do something different

Although adding something like this would probably be better as a separate update tbh. The balance is gonna change a ton already, and also you said you are planning to get the update out this year

There's also the arg-themed map, and miniko too

[hard moth]

Yar so itll prob be

Achievements & Balance & More upgrade (this update) -> Miniko & Arg & Pathways

More pathways might be a separate update depending on how things go

[upbeat edge]

Wait, you're planning on adding mini in the future?

[hard moth]

Yah, the update after this one

[upbeat edge]

Interesting

...You know...this might be a good time to mention that uh. A month or two ago I might have started a neuro adventures mod that uh. Well,

I also wanted to add Hiyori but all I added before I got distracted with the neuro inscryption mod was an upgrade functionally identical to anny's oranges and an infinite upgrade attack that probably doesn't make sense to have in tandem with the existing infinite upgrades, so

[tired haven]

I wonder if it would be possible to port the Miniko mod stuff as a base for the Miniko update
Also, I assume the modded build can't work with the server, or at least can't upload scores, as designed

And I just realized the characters page in the game still lacks all of the character images that I think were supposed to be there

I may have just found a reproducible way to confuse the AI's pathfinding

1. go to the obstacle fence
2. go in one direction near the fence
3. turn around and pass the AI going in the opposite direction on the fence as you came
4. the AI thinks you're on the other side of the fence
   Reproducible at least on the fence on the right side coming in from the left

The game appears to be able to spawn an insane amount of enemies, enough to lag my insane system down to below 30 FPS

The lag there was literally unplayable

I think I may finally have an idea of what the black lines I've been seeing may be
They appear to be seams in the background that show up due to my high resolution display or float imprecision or something

[upbeat edge]

I'd be cool with my mod being used as a base. Not sure what exactly would be used from it, and kotge would have to go through my spaghetti code, but. Y'know. Depends on what the upgrades will be for the official mini, there's probably new things that could be referenced considering when I started this it was just after the first mini collab.
Also, I indeed cannot send scores from my mod, but, that might not be because your server is good. I think for some reason I just commented out whatever lets you access the leaderboard at some point I can't even look at scores let alone sign in

That's essaying? Really neurobot?

[hard moth]

I can def use this as a base! The 'everything goes on' one especially sounds great.

Two upgrades I had planned out for mini is:

Game Controller: Press [Space] to fire lasers at the enemy. Ammo reloads at a rate of x/s and can store y at a time.

Campfire: a campfire spawns. All friendly units within the campfire range will gain Hp/s

[hard moth]

Im gonna rewrite the enemy pathfinding this update. Going to get rid fo all obstacles and have a much simpler pathfinding, should help with reducing lag and bugs.

with the new upgrades I think obstaclse will just be an annoiance

[hard moth]

^

[hard moth]

My finals are approaching rapidly and I just spend 6 hrs yesturday playing Magic Survivals in the name of 'research' I am so dead

[cerulean bear]

Uhhhhh, oops?

Also, evil fumo is basically shield from magic survival, but only for evil. As long as the cooldown doesn't get this low while giving 2 at a time, I think it should be ok

[tired haven]

Sending scores to the leaderboard does require your build of the client to have a password, so it won't work if you don't have that password

[tired haven]

I was referring to Neuro and Evil's pathfinding, not the enemies

[hard moth]

Oh alr,

Tho they share the same pathfinding method so if I change it for enemies it will also apply to Neuro & Evil

[tired haven]

Interesting

[hard moth]

A* iirc

[tired haven]

The bug I was seeing is that Evil thought I was on the other side of the fence when I was hugging the fence from the top

[hard moth]

Yar I had that sometimes too

[tired haven]

I managed to reproduce it fairly consistently

[upbeat edge]

I feel like those'd make more sense if the campfire was the active ability. An activated attack is fine but a little awkward if there's no passive attack to support it, and a stationary healing source is a little awkward as well if it just moves around on its own.

[hard moth]

hmm, ill def experiment with it, the original idea was it to emulate those bullet hell games where you can shoot.

I might actually make them both active, if that makes sense, make the campfire have a cooldown, and place down using [space], and fire the weapon using the mouse.

if it doesn't work out I can always make the weapon passive and shoot automatically

[tired haven]

You would have to somehow make it visible that you have to do that
The current game really lacks any kind of instructions
Maybe a good update would be to add a "guide" tab in the main menu (and maybe pause menu too) that has guides on how to use all the mechanics of the game control wise

[hard moth]

I should add better descriptions for upgrades to the list

a guide can def be added in a future update

[tired haven]

A guide would be very useful for new players that need to figure out the controls

Especially if there isn't a settings tab like "keybinds" where you can see and change the keybinds

[tired haven]

I feel like some interaction with this enemy separation is causing massive amounts of lag

The game really just becomes unplayable if you don't get enough AOE like fireballs early

You definitely need to at some point try to do something to try to fix all the framerate related bugs, such as the inconsistent XP bar, and the lag related issues with possibly an inaccurate movement amount approximation and things going trough other things

[cerulean bear]

They are the swarm that is approaching... Eventually

[tired haven]

I think the approximation the game uses for lag might be higher than what the actual speed is, although not sure, that's just how the controls feel when the game slows down to 10 FPS or so

[hard moth]

Im hoping when I change the system for pathfinding the lag also reduces

[tired haven]

You should definitely also make the game more consistent when the framerate changes

[tired haven]

This includes thing such as

• make collision with items, enemies and projectiles work at low framerate
• make movement not feel terribly off at very low framerates
• make the level bar consistent across framerates

[cerulean bear]

well that's a first. just got killed by an anti-virus pop-up

evil had like no health left, so when it popped up, it defocused the game window and i couldn't move

[tired haven]

Interesting
I've recently been killed by lag quite a few times

[cerulean bear]

I don't usually get killed by lag, mainly because I get fireball pretty early to prevent it

[tired haven]

Even with early fireball I sometimes die to lag by a massive swarm of enemies
You really need a ton of spread damage to not make a lag black hole

[hard moth]

Really hoping changing the pathfinding system will reduce lag by a lot, but im gonna experiment with other stuff to try and reduce it as much as possible

I'm also going to try increasing the enemy's speed and reduce their numbers

[cerulean bear]

i just discovered an interesting quirk of pizza. if you keep it on top of you, it doesn't continue to damage you

[hard moth]

yah it does damage-per-hit and not damage per second

[tired haven]

I think what could at least eliminate the lag black holes could be to to add some sort of enemy spawn cap where if there's a certain amount of enemies, enemy spawning (and also progress) pauses until the cap is no longer filled
Or something along those lines, not sure
That was my first thought

I think the enemy spreading is what cuases the lag with those massive enemy amounts

[cerulean bear]

spreading out the spawning density would probably help more. sometimes theres like 10-15 seconds where few to no enemies spawn, and then a massive wave of them to deal with

[hard moth]

actually do you know how spawning works on Magic Survivals? Do enemies just spawn near the character or something I couldn't quite understand it

[cerulean bear]

they do spawn near the player, but off-screen. they do have a spawn cap, and despawn if you get far away enough

[hard moth]

hmm, might try implementing something similar instead of having them just spawn at the edges of the map

[cerulean bear]

there is an artifact that reduces the cap by 15%, and in the current patch (still don't have the new one lol) there's a bug where the spawn cap is massively reduced sometimes though

[hard moth]

When does it come out I like playing in English better

[cerulean bear]

that's what i'd like to know

[hard moth]

also, just future idea, but I like teh concept of having one-two really powerfull upgrades while all your other ones are disabled. Might figure something out in a future update

(i jus discovered Overmind )

[cerulean bear]

figured

it's definitely the most fun of the 3, but perpetual engine is the best (because you can use shield, cloaking, and other support)

[hard moth]

I like the feeling of one upgrade being extremly superpowered with very low cooldown & large size.

I guess, for my game you would def have to consider tho that this might just end your game right away as friendly fire exists.

[cerulean bear]

yeah, the friendly fire system would probably need to be reworked for something like that

tbh tho, fireball is basically a fusion as it is

[hard moth]

If I implement a really powerful upgrade like that, Ill probably turn the game touhou-style, as in reduce the collab partner's hitbox to a small dot and allow shift-slow moving

[tired haven]

I may have found a new bug/exploit, but let me just validate it first

There is a possibility you can teleport further if you have a second display on the side of the one the game is on

[cerulean bear]

damn, i can't abuse it

[tired haven]

Found it when I accidentally pressed space when I had my cursor on the second screen

[cerulean bear]

does it make the cooldown super long?

[tired haven]

Is the cooldown based on distance?

I can't tell

[cerulean bear]

pretty sure it is

idk by how much though

[tired haven]

I feel like teleporting shoould just not be allowed to happen if the cursor is not within the game window

[hard moth]

loading_timer.wait_time = base_loading_time + anny_pos.distance_squared_to(mouse_pos) * 0.0002

I prob should yah put a check

for if cursor is actually on screen

[tired haven]

And if it's not, just ignore the teleoprt input

[tired haven]

By the way, what units is distance in?

Pixels or some relative unit?

[hard moth]

pxls, id assume

actually no clue

[tired haven]

Well, that is kinda unbalanced for displays with higher resolutions

[hard moth]

ok err not pixels

at least, not literally

[tired haven]

Is it relative to the window resolution?

[hard moth]

its relative to the game coordinate system

wich is the same no matter what

[tired haven]

Ok, that should be fine then

Then just fix the multidisplay exploit

[hard moth]

yar

[tired haven]

Should be an easy fix

Just a random edge case that wasn't accounted for

[hard moth]

to be precise, its set by the viewport height and width which is 640 x 360 no matter what.

[tired haven]

Interesting

By the way, I may have figured out what the black lines I've been seeing are

They appear to be possibly seams in the background

That show up as black lines due to reolution or something, not sure

[cerulean bear]

i haven't had any issues like that

[tired haven]

I'm on 1440p and I consistently see black lines while playing

One time one of them stayed on the screen long enough for me to identify what it is

[hard moth]

fixed

[tired haven]

Cool

[cerulean bear]

mine is 1280 x 768. my monitor is a literal TV

[hard moth]

im gonna work on reducing lags / problems like that once im done with the specifications for upgrades for those that watn to help

wanted to get it done today but

I hav my calculus exam in two days and I played way too much Magic Survivals + Pxls reset happen so will take longer

[tired haven]

Yeah, the black lines issue is likely a high resolution float imprecision bug or something

[hard moth]

English time to relearn names and do uh more 'research' for neur adventures

[cerulean bear]

1st run and as suspected i've found a way to exploit the worst fusion in the last update (it got a stealth rework, which makes it easier)

on a semi-related note, I do have my eye on a couple of the planned upgrades already, but i'll wait and see before commenting too much in case they aren't as strong as i think they might be

[tulip frost]

https://x.com/itchio/status/1866017758040993829

itch.io (@itchio) on X

I kid you not, @itchio has been taken down by @OriginalFunko because they use some trash "AI Powered" Brand Protection Software called @BrandShieldltd that created some bogus Phishing report to our registrar, @iwantmyname, who ignored our response and just disabled the domain

Twitter · Dec 9, 2024, 7:11 AM

Hope this won't cause too many issues

[tired haven]

If it doesn't come back, just send the game executable here as a backup

It's a single file anyway

[cerulean bear]

Also rip game jam possibly too

[hard moth]

Wtf

Hopefully they figure something out, website is working rn for me tho

[tired haven]

Maybe the DNS is cached for you

Or they got it back up

Who knows

[opal terrace]

it was down for me, but it's also back now

[cerulean bear]

Something up with the server? I went to check the leaderboard and was having issues. I just tried logging out like last time, but i can't seem to log in again. it just says the site cannot be reached

before attempting to relog, i tried setting a score and it failed to send it

[tired haven]

Domain expired
You can access the server again if you add 46.163.232.21 rants.theharrisontemple.com to C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts (open as plaintext)
Will be replacing the domain probably tomorrow, then Kotge needs to build a new version of the game

[cerulean bear]

i found the file, but how do i open something as plaintext?

[tired haven]

Open in a text editor
Note that you need to open the text editor as admin

Discord login might not work without a new redirect URI, I'm not sure

[cerulean bear]

it's more likely gonna be me messing something up

[tired haven]

Once you have the thing in the hosts file, you should at least be able to connect to the server again

[cerulean bear]

do i get rid of the original? i had to save it elsewhere and copy the file to the folder

[tired haven]

You don't need the original, it's an additive configuration file

[cerulean bear]

yeah, i can't seem to get it to work. still says the site can't be reached

[tired haven]

Can you screenshot the file contents?

At least on my system it works when I redirect it to localhost

Or maybe Godot checks something different from everything else

[tired haven]

Maybe you need a few more spaces, not sure

Try to align with all the other things

[cerulean bear]

same result

is it a problem if it is saved as a text document? before it just said file

[tired haven]

Yes

It must have the exact same name

Remove the file extension

[cerulean bear]

it doesn't have one in it's name, so i don't know how to change it

[tired haven]

In the top of the explorer window, click the view button and then check the file extensions box

Not the notepad, the file explorer

[cerulean bear]

thanks! i managed to log back in, but the leaderboard still doesnt load

[tired haven]

IOException

400 from Discord API

Let me just figure out where that comes from

It's possible Discord sees that the URL of the server is not valid and then just terminates something
I forgot what 400 means

[opal terrace]

400 means you are sending a bad request

[tired haven]

Well, never happened before the domain expiry

At least not with this server build

[cerulean bear]

it worked

[hard moth]

Super sent me the new link ill update the client shortly in a couple hours

The update specifications might also go up sometime today but don't bet on that

(I lied will take couple more days)

[hard moth]

oh the client tho should be updated

err as soon as it uploads

login & logout , leaderboard has been all checked using the new domain so thanks very much to superbox

[tired haven]

[hard moth]

for clarity, the reason the specifications are taking so long is not really because of the specifications but cause im tryna refractor my spagetthi code before I make them and the docs, and I have a lot of spagetthi code

[hard moth]

testing

[tired haven]

Interesting

[hard moth]

I thinj i figured out how ta drastically reduce lag, there shouldnt be an issue even w like 500+ enemies on screen at once if I can implement this

[tired haven]

Still all iin GDScript or are you bringing in C++?

[hard moth]

Iv also copy pasted the MagicSurvival way of spawning enemies so there should be less enemies in general

[hard moth]

No c++ needed for now

[tired haven]

Alright then

[hard moth]

Its more of an issue with how area2d works and I dont wanna remake the node in c++ nor do I have a clue on how to

[vernal hollow]

whats the issue with area2d's you are having?

if its the amount of area2d's you could combine alot of the area2d's into a single node and just add new shapes to the area2D for each enemy

[hard moth]

Its regarding the enemy live2ds. For some reason, if I have a lot of area2ds (enemies) overlap, there is a lot of lag. This is despite the fact that they are set so that they cannot interact with each other (using layers. They have the same layer but I have made it so that the mask does not detect anything in the same layer.)

[vernal hollow]

is the cause actually the Area2d's? if you disable it does the lag also disappear?

because it could also very well just be the rendering being overwhelmed

[hard moth]

Over here there is no lag because the slimes are not overlapping each other. But when I tried out with goblins (the only difference is that goblins have a larger sprite so they overlap more) it lagged a lot with the same amount of enemies

Yah I also tried disabling the area2ds and it also removed the lag

[vernal hollow]

hmm.. interesting. do the area2d's have monitoring and such enabled?

[hard moth]

Iv disabled and enabled something like that, no change in lag (im assuming the monitoring property)

The only thing that worked was like the slimes, making sure there is no overlap, or, disabling the collision

[vernal hollow]

yep can confirm goblins do hurt performance

[hard moth]

At this point im just gonna turn all the enemies into characterbodies so that the area2ds literally cant overlapp

Cause im scrapping navigation

Either that or reduce area2d size of all enemies

[vernal hollow]

honestly not sure if that many character bodies won't hurt your performance in another way...

[hard moth]

Yahhh

Theres also the option of increasing the 'force' or whatever at which the navigation avoids each other

I forgor what field it was but it exists

[vernal hollow]

honestly i think the main issue might be using get_overlapping_areas instead of keeping track yourself

i'll experiment and see if i can improve it

[hard moth]

Would be great

[hard moth]

also godot 2d physics kinda sucks hence why iv been using area2d + nav instead

[vernal hollow]

you could try out Rapier2D instead of the normal godot physics engine

(it does not fix your area2d issue tho, just tested it)

i just tried doing a few things... can't really find a good solution. you could try rolling your own collison and avoidance checking instead of using area2d's and then combine the collision shapes of the enemies into a single area2d node.
it definitely helps

but if you think thats too difficult to change (which is understandable) i'd recommend trying your best to minimise the overlap as much as possible but i guess that was already going to be your solution

[hard moth]

thanks yah ill prob try my best to remove overlapps

[hard moth]

Oh err how goes indiecure, any updates on development? Or is it still on pause

[vernal hollow]

currently on pause. but i might pick it up in the coming weeks. the anniversary did give me a bunch of new ideas and motivation

btw increase the Radius on the NavigationAgent2D to 8px and it only drops about 30fps instead of halfing your fps

9px avoidance radius

honestly the 9px avoidance change will just fix the issue you were having it only really lags if they literally all surround you like in the screenshot the moment they move back to 165 max fps

[hard moth]

I should set variable av radius depending on enemy size, prob should have done that in the first place

[vernal hollow]

yeah probably the best idea

[hard moth]

specifications are finally almost done will post in a couple hours

along with a google sheets so you can see which upgrades need working on

I rewrote basically all of how stats modifiers work so now its much easier to use them. This will allow me to implement something called 'Collab Directives' I'v been scretely working on for a while, and will be included in the new update

ok they basically artifacts from Magic Survivals but build on top of each other so some ones require you already have another first

[cerulean bear]

I'd actually had an idea for that in the form of equipment

Basically, you'd have a slot for a helmet, chestpiece, leggings, boots, one for each hand, and 1 or 2 accessories

[hard moth]

hem so limited artifacts like the old Magic Survivals

[cerulean bear]

Pieces could give 1 or 2 small boosts for damage or something, or on the highest rarity a special boost like cd (limited to 2 or 3)

You would be able to get a new piece of equipment or reforge it after defeating bosses, and sometimes upon levelup

[cerulean bear]

Kinda I guess. I guess you've done research

Used to be 6, then 8, then 10, then no limit

[hard moth]

dug through to see Magic Survival's development

so the idea I had was essentially you get to pick one 'directive' out of 4 random ones after each wave.

totally did not steal this idea from Magic Survivals

and you can combine directives to get special benefits

[cerulean bear]

To be fair, this kinda thing isn't unique to magic survival. Take STS for example with its relics

[cerulean bear]

Basically artifact fusions that never happened

[hard moth]

Directives being,

Latency (cd reduction), Responsibility (evasion), Independence (AI atk+), Reach (collection range), Brevity (speed), Hostility (general atk), Authority (collab partner boosts), Insurgency (Swarm), Therapy (Hp/s), Family (MaxHP+)

and for example if you combine

Brevity & Insurgency -> increase speed of all drones / pizza

or, Family & Therapy -> +1 revival chance

[hard moth]

was this suppose to be a thing in Magic Survival?

[cerulean bear]

I guess this update will keep me busy for a while. Ended up pulling a terraria

Though I'm partly responsible

[cerulean bear]

Yeah, it was mentioned at one point a couple years ago, with like no further word. I think it was before fusions were re-added

[cerulean bear]

One piece of equipment I came up with (although it's the only one. Hadn't thought too much about the system yet )

Accessory: A Poor Financial Decision - a wallet representing Vedal and his continued debt/letting neuro spend money. Tooltip: Never lend a Tutel money

[hard moth]

ill keep it in mind if I add accessories ontop of the directives, or if the directives don't really work out

[cerulean bear]

Yeah, I guess I'll try to work on the idea occasionally. For fun if nothing else

[hard moth]

@tulip frost and @upbeat edge or to anyone interested in helping implement upgrades, here are the specifications. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T-WltCej7oDYT0PI-O5kWa3X6PmWQn8J5mFQC1hchFc/edit?gid=0#gid=0

The red ones are the ones in need of implementation, there should be a field to put your name (Developer) if you are interested in working on it. Feel free to ask me as much questions as you need. A guide on creating new upgrades can be found at : https://github.com/KotgeDev/Neuro-Adventures/blob/main/docs/creating_new_upgrades.md

I'v left the exact values purposely vague, you can set them to whatever makes sense and ill probably change or tinker with it during balancing the game.

[hard moth]

If you have the time, sfx for: harpoon throwing (tho for this I guess I can reuse the angel wings one if you can't make a new one), electricity (for plasma globe), metal pipe sfx (or just sfx for something falling down), and baseball bat spinning (some kind of wind sound might work), would be great

[hard moth]

shortcut

[tired haven]

Interesting stuff

[hard moth]

Oh thx for the pins

[tulip frost]

Thanks for the info, I'll look through it a bit and see if there is anything I can do, can't promise I will be of much help, but it's very interesting to see what kind of things you are working on and thinking about how to solve it is fun :3

[tulip frost]

Sidenote, do you have any intention on making the game playable for Neuro? I know it's not valid for the game jam, but it would be awesome to see the chance of them playing it just as an honorable mention

[tired haven]

This kind of game is not really something Neuro can play with the API

[tulip frost]

Aww man, that's a shame

[tired haven]

Neuro API just doesn't really allow for real time stuff that well

This game would go terribly on Neuro API

[cerulean bear]

Neuro talking about exploding lavalamps is only gonna give me more ideas

[cerulean bear]

I've been meaning to mention for a few days now, but it seems the current update changed it a bit. enemies seem to spawn at the edges of the screen too now, not just off screen. i don't think the clairvoyance artifact changes this, but idk.

something else I learned since then is enemies respawn immediately after being killed. I didn't actually know how fast they respawned before.

also, i assume you didn't add a spawn cap considering the lag fixes. If you did/do in the future, you should add a way to stop infinite kiting, especially because enemies don't despawn and then respawn around you. I would be able to achieve 50 hours if i felt inclined to do so, and even if my score goes up slowly, if there's no risk of dying then i can set any score i want basically

[tulip frost]

So quick question, when the file wants the script and icon resources, is there anywhere I need to go find them myself? Assuming I have the script and icon ready for testing, what do I add to the text file?

[tulip frost]

Now full disclaimer, I don't think I made something functional just yet, but it would be nice to figure out how to test it

[upbeat edge]

Should be able to just set them in the resource in godot. Just click on the dropdown menu, hit load, then find the files in the. Files.

[tulip frost]

Still learning this program so will try to fix that then

[cold egret]

ok, I'll start working on those! :D

[hard moth]

I shu prob start drawing sprites for the new upgrades I jus realized

[upbeat edge]

Nah I've got all the art covered on my end trust

[tulip frost]

I made this as a placeholder for the evil fumo in the meantime

[tulip frost]

Okay so I feel like I'm not quite familiar enough with the program to make it work 100% but I still feel like I'm on the right track, if anyone would feel like sitting down at some point to discuss things that would be nice (Not today for obvious reasons but sometime soon)

[hard moth]

Sure! If you find a time I can do

[hard moth]

Honestly not bad! I think we can use it

[tulip frost]

Thanks! Much appreciated
I'll do my best to let you know whenever I have the free time, lots of family stuff going on today, but hopefully soon

[cerulean bear]

The evil fumo's head is a bit rounder, no? What does it look like if it's head is 1 pixel taller for a bigger face? Then you can make the eyes bigger

[tulip frost]

Looks better I'd say, wasn't sure it was going to be kept but it's easy to adjust if need be

[cerulean bear]

Yeah, looks better for sure. Only other changes I can think of is maybe making the eyes 1 pixel wider, one eye pixel being white, and making the mouth a little pinker. I know the fang is too small to add

Oh yeah, the horns maybe?

[tired haven]

It kinda looks off

And I kinda do a lot of pixel stuff for canvases

[tulip frost]

It does become more demonic the more I add to it

[tired haven]

Just look at all these pixel Neurons

I think it needs a hair outline

[tulip frost]

I do pokémon sprites for fun, this was just something I threw together in 5 minutes as a placeholder

[tired haven]

Yeah, Kotge will probably make a much better one

[cerulean bear]

I do no art related stuff, I just have my fumo right next to me

[tulip frost]

Here's just me throwing in more detail on it

[cerulean bear]

Phone camera isn't the best, but

[tulip frost]

I have one right here as well, just don't want to make it over-designed for such simple sprites

[cerulean bear]

Fair

Well I'll stop back seat art-ing and go back to sleep. It's like 6 am here

[tulip frost]

No worries, always appreciate the feedback even if it's on something small

[upbeat edge]

Check this shit out. Bang.

Best lava lamp you've seen in your life. I'll send a pull request for it when I'm done commenting

[cerulean bear]

Did the Lava Lamp get lost in shipping? I don't see one

[upbeat edge]

We ran out of budget for the lamp we could only afford the lava

[cerulean bear]

Try telling Vedal there's a problem with your budget. Surely he has a year old lambo or something he can sell

[upbeat edge]

mhm noted

[upbeat edge]

OK there's the pull request. I think. I've never made a pull request before so I'm just hoping I did it right

[hard moth]

will check tom as soon as I wake up

but looks great already

[cold egret]

Do you need sfx for a lava lamp as well? Considering that one guy just put the lava lamp into the game

[cold egret]

I made a sound for the plasma globe! I hope you think it's good, turns out electricity has a pretty unique sound lol

after a little more experimentation I think this one sounds more unique and more like lightning :D

[languid bone]

Is the other sprite(other than neuro) a placeholder for vedal?

Or is it like a swap characters thing kinda like how Holocure(another vtuber related survivors-like game but this time featuring the talents of Holocure) has multiple characters

[cerulean bear]

right now vedal, anny and both neuro's are in game

[languid bone]

Gotcha

Is evil Neuro a villain or a playable character?

[tired haven]

Neuros are allies, Anny and Vedal are the player characters

[languid bone]

Gotcha

[tired haven]

Currently Anny + Evil is the meta

[languid bone]

I mean

There’s only like what

4 combos? Atm

[tired haven]

Or at least the strat that gets the highest scores on the leaderboard

(I run the server for that thing)

[languid bone]

Hold on, I think I may have a couple of ideas based off some HoloCure weapons and items

Give me a moment to brainstorm

Also are we planning on any super moves

Cause HoloCure has a special depending on the character with various effects(for example Bae is able to shoot all weapons with no cooldown for 5 seconds while Sana turns invincible for a short time then attracts all items to her)

https://holocure.wiki.gg/wiki/Energy_Drink

This might be a cool exclusive item for vedal

It’s a stat up item in HoloCure

Maybe some Pairings could have signature items

Any ideas for some side modes?

I was thinking the neuro verse could contain this and

https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1313725952877920266

Girls Night(the fnaf neuro fangame)

Maybe this is the reason neuro and vedal can’t help the player of girls Night during the day

Cause in that one Evil Neuro is the main villian, and Neuro and Vedal are trying to prevent her from escaping the computer(and several other famous vtubers that Neuro has been with have escaped into the house from artwork the player of girls night drew

[hard moth]

sounds great I think it'll do well

[hard moth]

currently we have something similar in the form of programming socks, except it doesn't reduce HP, and super moves are def something in the back of my mind, tho don't have any concrete plans to implement them rn.

[cold egret]

yay!

[cerulean bear]

so there's something i thought of a week or two ago, but it's proving a tad difficult to test, although i've only tried twice so far. i'm trying to see what happens if i can keep the boss alive long enough for the next one to spawn

I assume they would just both exist at once, but it doesnt hurt to test. unfortunately they are too squishy because i kill them when actively trying not to

i happened to get a good demonstration of how op a single level 1 pizza can be on the second attempt. will upload it after neuro goes to sleep tonight (provided i don't forget)

[cold egret]

I guess to make sure you don't kill the boss you kinda have to only upgrade your non-attacking upgrades as well as your basic attacks. Every other upgrade would potentially kill the boss too soon

[cerulean bear]

you also need to stop the swarm (lol) of enemies, so you need enough damage for that. evil with max knife has too much damage and range to not kill the boss, and vedal has very small AOE and his rum gets blocked.

I'll probably have to use neuro for her speed, and only use her swords because i can at least control them

[cold egret]

yeah, that's what I was thinking, Anny and Neuro is probably the best combo for dealing with enemies while not killing the boss

[cerulean bear]

i tried vedal because he's faster, and the range is super helpful. and if i'm using neuro i'd rather have the extra speed i think.

it might be better to wait for the update to test it because there will be far more options at my disposal

[cerulean bear]

[cold egret]

fair

[cerulean bear]

I remembered! https://youtu.be/BGb4zoCUhAU

i got the pizza in the last couple minutes

[tired haven]

Very framerate, highly optimized

(I literally die if the framerate goes consistently that bad)

[hard moth]

There shouldn't be framerate issues once the new update drops, which, is gonna be delayed caus I wanna participate in the game jam

[cerulean bear]

I'll be watching the subathon anyway so I don't know how much I would actually be playing. I only have one monitor, so I can't play and watch.

Oddly enough, I can handle it with lower framerate. Probably because I'm used to lower performance settings anyway (I've resorted to playing Minecraft with a render distance of 2 chunks a couple times to give an idea)

While participating in the game jam would be cool, I don't have any of the skills (programming, art, sound design, etc) to actually do anything, aside from what I've done here. Also my family is doing Christmas today, so i'd miss like the first 18 hours between that and sleep

[tired haven]

I'm kinda part of the #programming team for the game jam
We're doing a full on song and I'm responsible for handling the Neuro voice RVC part

Our song pipeline is the biggest part of the team

[cold egret]

2 chunks render distance minecraft sounds painful

[cerulean bear]

It was annoying, but I can be obscenely stubborn at times

[tulip frost]

Okay I got the basic functionality of the Evil Fumo going, I just need to figure out how to use the cooldown timer, doesn't seem to want to start for me

[hard moth]

I think its timerName.start()

Unless thats not working for some reason

[tulip frost]

That isn't working sadly, might be something wrong with the way I'm trying to connect it or trigger it

[tulip frost]

I am pretty confused about it I admit, from what I can see it should work, it looks identical to how it does in other upgrades unless i'm missing something silly

[hard moth]

hmmmm once this game jam is over ill try my best to look into it.

Most likely I broke something with my last refractor

[tired haven]

Ok then I guess
The game jam is quite interesting, we're already done with our song and it's really good

[hard moth]

@swift edge moving the convo here as to not off-topic #2024-game-jam , but if there's any other things regarding the game that would be good to add, or changed, feel free to talk about them here and I can try making a simple planner for it if you want to make a pull request for it (If you want to work on it directly). Or if not I might implement it in a future update.

For simple UI things like a timer, if you want it added you can just go ahead I think and make it if you want, it shouldn't conflict with anything that is currently being worked on. (there's already a variable that stores time iirc so its only a matter of displaying that)

[swift edge]

yeah ill probably submit some pull requests at some point down the line. although not for a month at least as im entering the boss rush game jam for january lol

[cerulean bear]

Petition for anny to get raise the timer
(I'm joking, lol)

[cerulean bear]

Need I say more?
#announcements message

[cold egret]

While trying to make a metal pipe sound I somehow made this, maybe you can use it for something but I just want to share it

[tired haven]

That's a very Undertale-y sound

[cold egret]

honestly I don't hear it, but I will absolutely take it lol

[cerulean bear]

i've never played undertale. it sounds like a blaster or something from a retro game to me. i'm just glad its not as annoying as the pipe sound effect

[cold egret]

I tried to copy the famous metal pipe sound but 8-bit style for this, but it's really difficult

here's what my endeavors have resulted in, it sounds nothing like the famous metal pipe sound but I hope it's good anyway, if it's not I'll probably try a completely different approach

btw, for the harpoon sfx, will Evil be throwing the harpoon or shooting a harpoon gun?

[hard moth]

Throwing

[hard moth]

Sounds great it shouldnt be too same cause its for the game so this works

[cerulean bear]

thank god it's not an apple she's throwing https://discordapp.com/channels/574720535888396288/1063288614689198170/1326584705746735156

[cold egret]

ok, great!

[cold egret]

good to know

[thick bane]

Might as well make a "indie vtuber" survivor.

[swift folio]

Weren’t there a guy making it in game maker? I remember seeing something like this

[thick bane]

🤷‍♂️

[cerulean bear]

added a couple of quotes to the doc, hope that's ok

It's almost like Twitch hates you is a reference to promote, because for some reason twitch blocks them from receiving gift subs

[hard moth]

I jus completed that an hour ago and was planning on asking for quotes. Feel free to add much as you want or make better ones for existing quotes

[tired haven]

What is the quotes system thing?

[hard moth]

Its flavor text for the new directives thing im working on

(Sheet in pins)

[tired haven]

Interesting I guess
Well, if you need something more on the server, just let me know

[hard moth]

The new achievements saving system should hopefully just work, if it doesn't ill notify you

[tired haven]

Well, you gotta test it so I can know if I can update the live version of the server

[cerulean bear]

i saw them not even 10 minutes later

[cerulean bear]

added a quote for latency overdrive

[hard moth]

Some of these were placeholder names so might move some quotes around fyi

Also feel free to suggest better names

[cerulean bear]

i'm sure i'll have time to cook name ideas during the last "3" hours of the subathon (provided i stay awake, its almost 9:30 pm, and tomorrow is my birthday so i should probably sleep)

[hard moth]

Ah yes last "3" hours

[cerulean bear]

last year it ended at almost 9 am, and i stayed up pretty much all night.

it's 6 am right now, but i slept pre-emptively so i managed to hold

[hard moth]

[cold egret]

I made 3 different sounds for the baseball bat because I'm not sure which one is better

I hope these are good!

[cerulean bear]

Personally I like the 3rd one the most. The other 2 are a bit louder/longer, and I feel like if I'm hearing them for like 40 minutes straight they'll start to get annoying.

That said, I feel something that sounds a bit closer to something being thrown might be better. Like if you quickly move your hand through the air you can hear it. Alternatively, another idea is something like a boomerang or dagger spinning through the air

And oh dear God, I went back and listened to the pipe ones and they are so loud in comparison. I remembered being glad they were quieter than the actual pipe sound effect

[cold egret]

lmao, sorry, it's hard to keep the volume consistent

I could make it sound similar to something being thrown, but since there are already actual thrown weapons that also have/need sound effects I think that might make it too similar to those

[hard moth]

Oh I think the sounds work, I also like #3 the most.

Btw, im probably not going to add the baseball bats and the plasma ball this update for balancing reasons (and to scope down a bit so this update doesnt take forever to release)

(Just a note so no one gets confused why they are missing in the immediate update. Ill most likely be adding them when I add the new map & miniko, or in a smaller balancing update before I do that)

Right now sfx I am missing is:

Harpoon (again technically I can re use the angel one so not a neccesity but a more metalic and sharp throwing sound might be cool)

Bullet / gun firing (singular fire)

Glass shattering (might be cool for the Lava lamp)

As for volume there is no need to worry about them too much because I can easily modify them within Godot @cold egret

[cold egret]

ok, I'll start working on those! :D

[hard moth]

for picking up directives will spawn randomly near the collab partner after each wave. nearly done w em, hopefully I can move on to the new upgrades tomarrow.

[tired haven]

Have you tested the updated server yet?

[hard moth]

nop ill prob get to that once im don w both the directives and upgrades since I can't make the new achievements until those are done

I am tryna get it done this week tho

[tired haven]

Alright then

[cold egret]

I made a sound effect for the lava lamp, I hope this is good!

[hard moth]

its perfect

working on upgrades to-day

[cold egret]

oh, awesome! :D

[cerulean bear]

I got a quote in mind for networking obsession and potentially seasoned babysitter. I'll add them the next time I'm on my PC

[unreal thunder]

top score get

[tired haven]

[unreal thunder]

lol

[icy fox]

wait a sec... is the game live???

like is it playable rn?

[tired haven]

Has been for a long time

[icy fox]

hell yeah, gonna try finding it

btw is there like a link or something?

[tired haven]

Pins

https://kotgedev.itch.io/neuro-adventures

[icy fox]

[unreal thunder]

wasn't satisfied with my top score, so I did it again

:>

[cerulean bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1110199900114780182/1124131624360083607/this_is_fine.gif

[unreal thunder]

lel

[hard moth]

New update will probably drop tomarrow as long as I don't encounter a dum bug that takes the whole day to solve

But itlll be like a test version to find potential bugs and balancing issues. Will have some features missing but they wont affect gameplay like the achievements saving system, which I need to test the server first so will take longer.

[tired haven]

Is the server tested yet?

I have still yet to update the prod server, as I'm waiting for you to test it locally

[hard moth]

no not yet hence why a version without it would be uploaded* first, I need time to test it + make the new achievement names / art

[tired haven]

I guess hopefully your new version is not dependent on the new server

Just make sure the new version is separately identified by the server

[hard moth]

shouldn't be, but thanks for the reminder, I have now updated the version number.

[tired haven]

Very important to do so now that there's gonna be a big balance change instead of just a simple bug fix

[hard moth]

yar its now 1.5

1.5.0 -> tomarrow (hopefully), all basic features

1.5.y -> several patches for server upgrade (achievements), bugfixes, balancing, etc.

[tired haven]

Sounds good to me
I wonder who's gonna hold the top scores on V1.5+

[cerulean bear]

I remember the days when this update was supposed to just be for the achievements

I might have to start calling the game neurarria

[hard moth]

feature creap

yah im adding mabe too much at once this update

but I figured you would really need a stats page for the directives

[cerulean bear]

YES! Tbh, I've been wanting a stats page for a while for the different upgrades and never really got around to suggesting it. It makes things easier to suggest balance changes for if I know how fast angel wings for example shot too. (Save that for another update though if you do add it )

[hard moth]

rn clicking on the upgrades does nothing, but in a patch after the udpate is out ill add a popup window with exact stats

[cerulean bear]

And I'm not complaining about the size of the update. It gives me a lot to play around with and I'm hyped for it

I'm just poking fun that terraria does the same thing. They've turned a simple crossover update with dead cells into something that's taken probably a year and a half and is still not out. They just keep cooking

[tired haven]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Terraria and their update thing

[cerulean bear]

I added quotes for seasoned babysitter (hahaha, you missed ****) and networking obsession (the voices guide me)

The first of the two of course being a reference the the twin dev stream.

Classic discord. That's 4 *'s and it thought I wanted italics

[tired haven]

You could try to use \ (escape the *)

Like that you can have *text* between them

Pretty convenient

[cerulean bear]

I also added quotes for pro gamer AI and pro gamer partner. Both being classic keep talking and nobody explodes references

[tired haven]

By the way, I just remembered that Anny kinda easily overuses oranges
Could maybe try scaling the orange pickup range with how many are collected? Not sure

[thick bane]

Can you make the browser version mobile compatible? Like add a small virtual thumbstick.

[unreal thunder]

already told kotge about the mass orange overuse

[tired haven]

It would have to be more like a virtual cursor because of how aiming works

[thick bane]

I can aim with the touch screen

But I can't move

[cerulean bear]

There would need to be buttons for the collab abilities and the swap mechanic being added too

[hard moth]

one more upgrade to go until im done (still have some icons to draw tho but after that the main part of the update is done )

ill be uploading a version with the score-sending turned off so that some balancing can be done and any bugfixes caus I haven't actually tested all of the directives

[cerulean bear]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1255256831148687360/evilyay_2.gif

[tired haven]

[hard moth]

Hoping to upload ~8-10 hrs from now. Everythin ready except some test runs an a couple icons.

[cold egret]

I made sound effects for the gun and harpoon! I hope these are good :D

also, this was originally an alternate version of the lava lamp sfx that I decided wasn't as good, but I just realized it might be good as an sfx for when Vedal's rum hits an enemy!

[hard moth]

alr my internet is pretty bad rn but once this is done ill be able to post

[tired haven]

Make sure to test all the features work well

[hard moth]

iv checked 90% of the stuff but erm some of the directives might not work

[tired haven]

Guess I'll find out if it works once I test it

By the way, it would be fun if you added automated updates similar to what Neuroverse TCG has, that would be cool

[cerulean bear]

I guess it's time to break stuff

[hard moth]

woul be nice to have a launcher, tho rn a low priority

[tired haven]

Neuroverse TCG has the auto-updates built-in into the exe now

[hard moth]

having some troubles with the exporting caus im doing it from a different computer

the icon is now missing for some reason

but rest of the game works so uploading

[tired haven]

Is the icon file still there? And is it trying to call it from a different path from before?

[hard moth]

nvm

it is somehow fixed

I guess it just was slow at loading

upload will be done in like a minute

[hard moth]

... or not found a bug

[tired haven]

Very few bugs

[hard moth]

which happened because I fixed another bug

[tired haven]

Guess it's time to wait more

[cerulean bear]

classic

[tired haven]

By the way, I have no clue how you're able to send images despite lack of embed perms
Do they like, have embeds for everyone on threads?

[unreal thunder]

I have it now though

on regular channels

[tired haven]

Doesn't show up in your roles

Odd

[unreal thunder]

hm

[tired haven]

Very odd

[unreal thunder]

oh wait, seems on some other channels I don't

[cerulean bear]

You have not unlocked new role

[unreal thunder]

guess it doesn't apply to threads then

[tired haven]

I guess they just allow everyone to embed on threads

Makes sense for the art forum, not sure about this one

[hard moth]

ok erm fixed

[unreal thunder]

is it your birthday btw, miffin

[cerulean bear]

that was 12 days ago on the 16th

[unreal thunder]

noticed

a birthday role?

[cerulean bear]

i guess i'm shiro 2.0 now

[unreal thunder]

eh

[hard moth]

[tired haven]

[unreal thunder]

hm, filter % values seem to have changed a lot

and it goes down when leveling now?

[tired haven]

I think I already found a bug

Or visual issue

[hard moth]

Not really a bug a visual issue I need to fix

anything not Tier I don't really increase chances of anything

oh yah my ping list

https://kotgedev.itch.io/neuro-adventures

@tired haven
@cerulean bear
@finite hull

Neuro Adventures 1.5 Beta is out!

This is a test version so the leaderboard has been disabled. Please alert me of any bugs, or any balancing suggestions.

If you want to be removed from this ping list, or added, please tell me and ill do so.

[unreal thunder]

ah, you have a ping list

add me also then

woot

so why does filter value decrease when leveling it now?

[hard moth]

errr balans

or just lazy to swap the numbers

I should probably

either way 100% should be possible now

[unreal thunder]

is it still the same values as 1.4?

where max level is 90%?

[hard moth]

80% now

[unreal thunder]

so these are the wrong values then?

[hard moth]

25+25+20+10 = 80 ?

[unreal thunder]

oh

[hard moth]

is what I mean

[unreal thunder]

it's incremental now

I see

[hard moth]

and then +15 % from a directive and +10 % from another

[unreal thunder]

didn't notice the +, thought it was still cumulative

[hard moth]

oh yah most of the descriptions been updated to follow a more strict guideline

[unreal thunder]

why to incremental now though, it's more difficult to easily see total values for each level now

[hard moth]

mainly because you can see total value from the stats page

[unreal thunder]

hm

[cerulean bear]

i looked through the upgrades and pipes doesn't have a level 6

[tired haven]

Those monitor things sure are common

[unreal thunder]

that would be from in-game

from a strategy planning perspective, having it incremental may be worse

[hard moth]

(oh and I wanted to make it clear that each lvl increases the filter by smaller values)

[unreal thunder]

if anything that would be misleading

as the total damage received is not a function of the additive increase

[cerulean bear]

also, no fumo upgrade sadge

[unreal thunder]

it's distance from 100%

[hard moth]

yah thats a bug erm

will update rn

[unreal thunder]

closer you get to 100%, the more damage is decreased for each 1% increase

[cerulean bear]

80% filter is 80% damage reduction from the AI. so 10% more and you take half the damage you would at 80%

[unreal thunder]

yes, that's my point

[hard moth]

the main reason tho was consistency, since everything else now uses + / - some value)

[unreal thunder]

to indicate the later levels have a smaller additive decrease is misleading, as the actual % damage reduction at later levels is higher

you may want to consider multiple sets of standards rather than one uniform for all values, or you'll run into clarity problems like this

which apply consistently to their respective areas

I'd venture that most new players would see each later level's additive increase is lower, so they'd assume diminishing returns quickly

which would be the opposite of what actually happens

[tired haven]

So far Neuro still seems a little weak on AOE

[unreal thunder]

also, new skills, cool

[tired haven]

And healing for both Vedal and Neuro still seems low

Just initial thoughts though

[hard moth]

Im still not understanding, it is diminishing returns right?

The higher level gives less additional filter per level

[tired haven]

Huh? Why did Neuro stop following?

[hard moth]

the main reason for consistency is because of directives,

saying

AIs now do 50% less damage to collab partners,

doesn't make too much sense when

a directive can add +10% to the filter, so the total is

60% filter, thus 60% less damage

[unreal thunder]

the additive increase is diminishing, but the actual resultant damage reduction is increasing

[cerulean bear]

say you have 80% filter, you take 20% damage. 90% means you take 10%

[unreal thunder]

and the far as the player is concerned, the damage reduction is what matters, the % value added doesn't

[tired haven]

If that's intentional, there should be something to show what button effects it

[unreal thunder]

yes, so 80-90% is a 50% decrease in damage between the two

[hard moth]

srry should have clarified it is shift

[unreal thunder]

to describe it as just +10% filter would definitely mislead many new players

[tired haven]

Maybe add something that shows that in the game

[hard moth]

ok I see now

[hard moth]

still not sure how to word it so the directives stll make sense

[unreal thunder]

I spend a massive amount of time perfecting the descriptions and code documentations in my red alert 2/yuri's revenge mod, clear descriptions are really important

I get why you made everything +- format, you don't want to just arbitrarily describe stuff, it's chaotic as a dev

but it's important to focus on the end result for the player above all else

[cerulean bear]

yeah, agreed. some of the english descriptions in magic survival aren't the best and have caused me confusion

[unreal thunder]

so I'd recommend developing more than one description/wording standard, for application to their respective types of cases

[hard moth]

ESL moment

I might revert filter to the original way of descriptions,

and just add the + filter part

[unreal thunder]

that's why you don't word it relatively

the original cumulative filter % was ideal

where you list the total filter% at each level

[cerulean bear]

"x% reduced damage from friendly fire"

[unreal thunder]

e.g lvl 1 has 30% filter, level 2 has 50%, level 3 75%, level 4 90% filter

that was completely fine

directives would then make sense to add +% filter to that

[hard moth]

yah that should work

[unreal thunder]

ye

and if directives would ever to also have levels (hypothetically speaking), their filter values would be cumulative descriptions per level also, and you would just add up the cumulative sources of filter to get your total amount

this way the player doesn't need to add up so many values

just add one value from each source of filter

[hard moth]

25% filter ( AI will do 30% less damage to collab partners )

50% filter ( AI will do 50% less damage to collab partners )

...

[unreal thunder]

ah yes, isn't it 33.33% less damage lol

for 25% filter

[hard moth]

[unreal thunder]

but yea, this format works

[unreal thunder]

I feel like I've seen the 0.75/1.33x pairing way too many times while modding YR lmao

so that jumped out at me instantly