#Neuro Sama Survivors-like

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hard moth
tired haven
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I guess you accidentally left in a debug feature

hard moth
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Left out the fact that you can press space to skip the achivements paget

tired haven
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What is that?

hard moth
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Should show the achievements if you received any at end of game

tired haven
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Ok , that's cool I guess, but seems like you forgot to add like one if statement to check if that animation is active

hard moth
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yup

tired haven
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That happens I think. In this case it just caused there to be an instant win button

hard moth
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pretty much (but no achievement)

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not the first time i've created an instant win button neurowheeze

tired haven
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Well, shoudn't be that hard to fix. But how will you fix the 4090 softlock?

hard moth
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Instead of "Press F to use" ill have the messege be "No upgrade available!"

tired haven
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That's kinda what I expected

hard moth
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ill play this game a buncha times to see if I can re-create the crashes and upload a new ver

tired haven
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Ok

hard moth
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@cold egret do you have a rough estimate of when you think you will be finished with the video? I want to make a release schedule(?) if possible

cold egret
hard moth
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Take as much time as you want

cold egret
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Ok, thanks!

hard moth
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Erm, been busy the past couple days but my interner deadline for game release is Sunday. Game crashed while playtesting for me too and trying to bugfix

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I think the new Achievements system may be causing it but I have no clue why or how

tired haven
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I have no idea either, it seemed completely random

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If you could somehow get a trace or some other debug thing of the crash, maybe you could figure out what causes it

hard moth
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When it lagged the Achievements Victory scene was the only thing that remained so I'm assuming it has something to do with that scene.

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Going to playtest with the profiler on and see if I can re-create the crash.

tired haven
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When it crashed for me, all the graphics and physics stopped and the audio kept playing, so it might be the physics thread

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You should take a look at that code and see if you can identify a state that would cause it to be invalid and stop

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Then think of a way it could get into that state and see if it's possible

hard moth
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Ok there is a slight chance I might release the game today. Mostly everything is ready. Either today or tomorrow. neuroHypers

Unless I run into another game-breaking bug in the middle of testing NeuroClueless

tired haven
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Did you find the cause of the crash?

hard moth
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no clue still searching but I think its gone now

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At least when I fixed everything else it seems to have disappeared

tired haven
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Well, you can't rule it out unless it happens again or you know exactly what was causing it and fixed it

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Something like that anyway

hard moth
tired haven
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Ok cool, I hope ot doesn't have the crash

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So what's the plan for the next major update?

hard moth
tired haven
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So next update is mainly characters and stuff?

hard moth
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Plus, of course, any bugs found in the release (which I hope there are none) and fixing all the vsync issues at high frame rate.

tired haven
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Ok, sounds good, any plans for which version will have the leaderboard and server stuff?

hard moth
hard moth
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Depends on how busy I am with uni stuff

tired haven
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Ok, works for me

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Well, let me know once you start working on that, since you'll definitely need to know where to tell the game to connect to

cyan fern
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As for new characters, will be other vtubers too? i'd like to play as Shiro or cabbage, melba...

viral talon
hard moth
tired haven
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By the way, the clientside software on the game should be made so that it can handle disconnections from the server while in-use, as well as no server connection situations so the game won't crash if I reboot my PC

mystic verge
opal terrace
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Does it even need a continuous connection? I was thinking to just send an http request on e.g. a game over.

hard moth
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Thanks neuroHypers

tired haven
opal terrace
tired haven
opal terrace
tired haven
opal terrace
tired haven
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And the Discord login sounds like a good additional thing

opal terrace
tired haven
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Not sure how that would work though

opal terrace
tired haven
# opal terrace It doesn't, unfortunately.

Well, I just came up with adding the client-server communication logic of the game to a separate dll and just sending that and checksuming it on the server without touching it otherwise, then just also put the score counter in that dll too. Would that work?

opal terrace
# tired haven Well, I just came up with adding the client-server communication logic of the ga...

No, I can just send the real dll while executing another one. There is no way to prove the client is legit by just sending more info, because all of it can be faked. The only solution to this is to do what Valorant does and have a kernel level driver that just prevents launching the game if it is modified, but that is not at all a good idea. Otherwise I think some form of account system and just banning people that already cheated is the only option.

tired haven
opal terrace
tired haven
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Anyway, just make sure to tell me once the development on that stuff starts so I can provide the server address and backup paths and any other stuff you'll need

tired haven
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There's a bug where if you press spacebar on the victory screen, it flashes and comes up again

hard moth
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Erm, will look into it

tired haven
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Ok then. I don't think it should be that hard to fix, since it should be easy to find the reason for it happeining, probably just a check for something is missing

hard moth
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fixed was one line neuroDeadge

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Dont think its significant enough for me to upload the update now but will be included in the next major update

tired haven
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Alright then, that's kinda what I expected

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Any progress going on with that by the way?

hard moth
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Not really, was too busy with uni stuff, but finally things are calming down. I can probably make a prototype Evil Neuro by the end of the weekend.

tired haven
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Oh, cool. That'll be interesting to see

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Then you'll finally get to use that character select screen too

hard moth
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Unsure if ill add gacha mechanics or not for stuff like outfits

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Holocure has it I think for characters but theres only 3 for now if I include Evil and 4 if I add Anny so prob not

tired haven
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Definitely not for characters, maybe not outfits either, unless there's like a really large amount of them, since after you get all of them, that mechanic is basically useless unless more are added in a later update

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And if it's only like a couple outfits there's no point to have a dedicated mechanic to getting them

hard moth
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Agreed, thinking of just having outfits be locked by certain (Fairly easy to compelte) achievements

tired haven
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That'd certainly be better I think, that gives players more of a reason to try to get the achievements

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Anyway, let me know once there's something new so I can try it out,or once you start working on the leaderboard system for endless mode

cold egret
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Should I wait until the new characters come out to finish the trailer? Since that seems like a pretty major thing

tired haven
cold egret
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ok, I'll just continue making the trailer :D

tired haven
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I hope it's going well

cold egret
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it's going well but slowly since I don't have much time to work on it each day

tired haven
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Well, it's fine,you can work on it at whatever speed you feel is good

hard moth
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OK welp my plans to get Evil finished during the weekends kidna failed. She will prob be done by the end of the months.

tired haven
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Alright then, will be interesting to see what Evil will be like

hard moth
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Here are some plans

Forgotten Child - inverse of say it back! in that it increases damage but Evil will stay more away from you.
Pizza turret - stationary turret that launches pizza at enemies. Unlimited. (Gymbag drones equivalent)
Viva la Pizza Revolution - Upgrades for pizza turret like how swarm upgrades are form gymbag drones
Abber Demon's Hellfire - zone around Evil that kills enemies over time.
Queen of the NetherRealms - Basically turns Evil neuro into a boss you need to survive from (think inuke6000 but much more powerful. Enemies should not be a worry anymore after getting this, your worry should be survivng Evil)

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Most of them revolve around evil being further away from Vedal in general (She won't be as close as Neuro is to Vedal. Forgotten child will make this worse. )

tired haven
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Interesting ideas. I think they should work

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Let me know when you have something like a new version to try

cold egret
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that last one sounds difficult to balance but very fun

hard moth
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Ok hopefully I can work on Evil this weekend. Spent the last one working on a art for Evil's birthday so didn't have time.

tired haven
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Alright, we'll see what happens I guess. I'll be waiting for updates

hard moth
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Semi-finalized upgrades list is as follows:

Knife - Originally her main weapon was going to be a bat, but I think a knife is more stylish and fits her more. Deals continuous bursts of damage to any and every enemy within her range.
Forgotten Child - inverse of say it back! in that it increases damage but Evil will stay more away from you.
Soul Stealer - Damage done by Evil will heal her. (Replaces Gaslight)
Pizza & Viva la Pizza Revolution - Instead of turrets I think ill just make them pizza drones similar to the gymbag drones but with different behavior (They will always target enemies closest to Evil and if they get out of range from Evil they will come back) More defensive rather then offensive.
Summon Circle - Zone around Evil that kills enemies over time. This upgrade will also cause Evil to stay more away, like Forgotten Child.
Abber Demon - The boss thing I have described above but not sure yet of the details. I am thinking of making this locked behind the final summon circle upgrade. (Essentially, by completing the summon circle upgrade you can "summon" the abber demon)

Names are subject to change.

hard moth
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Oh forgot to upload these here

evil_run.gif evil_idle.gif
cold egret
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those all sound super fun :D

hard moth
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I think I have the character selection working. I really want to do a whole UI redesign but that will wait until im done with Evil.

tired haven
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So you think the UI could be better?

hard moth
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Currently it looks too messy I think

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I want everything more unified under a single theme

tired haven
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Ok, makes sense

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If you want to redesign it, you can do that. I can't see any issues with it though

hard moth
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Testing with Neuro's upgrades first

tired haven
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I assume Evil is still using Neuro's attack there, since it looks kinda odd when she does that

hard moth
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Yup working on her knife upgrade rn

tired haven
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Ok then. Let me know how it goes and when I can get to test it, since it seems interesting

hard moth
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Finished knives, working on summon circle evilOwOA

summon_circle.png
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Took inspiration from Neural Network mathematics and ngl this thing already looks like a summon circle.

1_bzTKIJMzUM4jAKTdRR4x3A-3799078430.png
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Since the Knives upgrade already does continuous AOE damage this will probably not damage enemies but only slow them down, which should work well with the Knives upgrade.

tired haven
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I think that should work

hard moth
cold egret
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depending on how many levels it has I think it should slow them down a little more than that at max level, but it looks really fun!

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btw do you need any sfx for these new Evil things?

hard moth
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Hmm maybe a knife stab? Currently im reusing a previous sfx but a separate one will be nice. Idk how a knife stab should sound like though.

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Should be short basically

cold egret
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ok, I think I'll try to basically shorten the sword sound and make it sound... sharper? idk if that's the right word

hard moth
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I guess more abrupt?

cold egret
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yeah

cold egret
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I feel like it might be too long but idk

hard moth
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Ill try it! But i think it will work

hard moth
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I think I can finish the test version today

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probably

tired haven
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Oh, cool. Let me know when it's available to test, I really want to try it

hard moth
tired haven
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Why 1.5? It should be 1.1

hard moth
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oops

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I can rename

tired haven
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Yeah, that would make sense to do

hard moth
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Also I think a list of dedicated playtesters that are willing to be pinged every time an update comes out is a good idea

tired haven
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Sounds like a decently good idea to me too

hard moth
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Like the card game. Rn I just have @tired haven but if anyone else wants to be on it please do tell me.

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I also made a playtesters section on the credits

tired haven
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By the way, seems like sockets is indeed using ports and stuff, so the leaderboard server should work

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Found out that when making the Neuro TCG server connectivity

hard moth
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good to know, rn my plan is
1.1 Evil -> 1.2 Anny -> 1.3 UI cleanup -> 1.4 Leaderboard + Current Map redesign (Better sprites and infinite mode which the leaderboard is for)-> 1.5 2nd Map (thinking of something ARG relate

tired haven
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Which update will endless mode be on?

hard moth
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1.4 the map redesign will be partially for the mode

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And well the purpose of the leaderboard is for the endless mode

tired haven
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I think that makes sense

opal terrace
tired haven
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That would probably work too, as long as it can make sure it knows who the request is coming from to allow for banning cheaters

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I'll playtest the new version as soon as I can

hard moth
opal terrace
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Just an observation, but the summon circle slows all enemies if they are colliding with it in 2D. I was expecting it to slow them if their feet are touching it.

hard moth
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Yah im using the damage area2ds for detecting if enemies are touching the summon circle or not which results in any part of the enemy being counted as a collision, not just the bottom.

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Possibly i will make a separate are2d for anything relating to movement but it would require a rewrite

opal terrace
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I think at least for the player it would make sense because it could be frustrating if they thing they are outside but still get slowed down.

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The enemies aren't as noticeable,

hard moth
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make sense

opal terrace
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The game just froze for me.

hard moth
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great the freezing bug is back neuroBwaa

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anything that you think may have been the cause?

opal terrace
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No idea. I have the editor attached though.

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It's spamming ERROR: Condition "p_elem->_root != this" is true. I don't think that's your scripts. It mentions a c++ file.

hard moth
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ill uploade a version with the console attached next bugfix, so that if it crashes the reason can be precisely caught

opal terrace
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I have it decompiled and am running it with the debugger attached.

hard moth
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that was possible? NeurOhISee

tired haven
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At least with JVM games that's kinda easy, since they can be ran from the command line like I do with the Neurolings, so debugging Neuro TCG crashes should be easier for users

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Will be interesting to see what happens

opal terrace
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Sadly, I don't think I can help, even with the debugger. It doesn't even let me pause.

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Interestingly, the audio is still playing.

tired haven
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I think I had a random crash bug like that on an earlier version

tired haven
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Why is raise the timer a Vedal upgrade when it only effects the AI?

hard moth
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Its tied to Vedal (in case there are other collab partners)

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Probably will make it universal though if I can think of a separate Vedal unique upgrade.

tired haven
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Ok I guess, it just doesn't quite make sense to me, especially since the subathon it's a reference to was Neuro's birthday, while Evil wasn't the main focus of it

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So it being available for both is kinda odd to me

hard moth
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I got the idea from Vedal raising the timer from Anny's subathon basically

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But I guess having it tied only to Neuro makes some sense

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Ill tie it to Vedal for now until I add Anny

tired haven
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Ok I guess

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Evil staying so far away makes her significantly harder to control than Neuro

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At least now we know Neuro adventures uses basically no VRAM

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With Evil the friendly fire mechanic actually seems to be much more significant

tired haven
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Evil seems really powerful compared to Neuro, but absolutely drains Vedal's HP

tired haven
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I just noticed Evil is missing an icon for her HP bar

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Evil can apparently go off-screen

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The fireball attack is stupidly powerful already on lv1, which makes it really hard for Vedal to survive

tired haven
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It really seems like Vedal is the one to die every time

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For some reason the relative speed between Evil and Vedal seems to change on programming socks lv1 and go back to normal on higher lvs

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Vedal really needs some way to heal more when Evil is active

hard moth
hard moth
hard moth
hard moth
tired haven
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Sounds quite confusing, since there's no other features in the game that use a keyboard shortcut or something

hard moth
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True, but cant think of what else that would give the player more control (over dodge)

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And it feels repetitive to have another upgrade that is just damage negation, so I do want something like dodging

tired haven
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Then you need to add more than one upgrade that utilizes a button

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And some kind of way to tell the player how to activate it, like a key icon on top of their head

hard moth
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Seems like a good idea. In the description I can add that you need to press space to dodge and put a symbol over vedal when the dodge is charged.

Ill prob give a similar spacebar-activated upgrade to Anny (so all collab partners have atleast one button utility skill)

tired haven
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Ok I guess, that might work, but we'll have to see. We definitely do need some way to make Vedal take less damage though, especially when Evil is the active AI. When Neuro is active, Vedal is 100% fine with HP and Neuro is the one that needs assistance, but while Evil is active, Vedal needs assistance while Evil just chills off-screen and shoots fireballs everywhere

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Putting Evil off-screen is actually a pretty decent strategy to avoid damage

hard moth
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Are there any other upgrades other then fireball that is too OP/too weak?

tired haven
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The summoning circle is literally useless

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Evil is too powerful to need it

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Enemies don't usually get close to her and the boss only has projectiles

hard moth
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Noted, so really the other upgrades need to be less powerfull

tired haven
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Evil just feels very powerful until the boss shows up, after that she feels more like a threat and like she can't do anything but hurt Vedal, since the boss needs single-target damage, but Evil seems to really excel at mutliple target spread damage, not hitting one enemy

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When the boss shows up, it really feels like you need something completely different than what you need to get to it

hard moth
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Does Pizza work against the boss?

tired haven
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I don't really think so, at least not on that one run I had like 3 or 4 upgraded pizzas, although I might have died with Vedal there quite quickly because Vedal didn't have enough healing and speed because all the levels were in the pizzas and not in programming socks and greggs

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I feel like there is something wrong with something with the part where the boss shows up, the things you need change too much and leveling is too slow for you to be able to beat the boss, I have ever beaten the game on versions 1.0 and up once, even after quite a lot of trying

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Sometimes it really feels that the boss phase is too different from the enemy phase to be really doable due to how different it is

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Maybe you need to completely change something about the boss phase to make the strategies it needs more inline with the rest of the game to make it not as extremely difficult to beat the game

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At least that's what I think might be needed

hard moth
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I may also have the boss hp too high since I quadrupled it a long time ago. But that was when upgrades were less balanced.

tired haven
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That might be the issue then. I have no idea how far I'm getting with the boss, since it has no HP bar, wasn't that something that was supposed to be a thing?

hard moth
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Yah, should be helpful.

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will attempt to add next bugfix. Currently:
Make everything but summon circle less powerful. Fireball much less powerful.
Add new knife sfx
Boss health reduced + health bar (probably)
Vedal "dodge" upgrade (naming it DM Allegations since I already have sprites for that)

tired haven
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That might work, I'll try out the game again whenever that comes out, so let me know when it does

hard moth
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Most likely after my midterms (next week neuroDeadge)

tired haven
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Ok I guess, I assume you'll ping me once it's available

obtuse condor
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That summon circle looks fucking sick great work!

tired haven
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Hopefully it will also be useful next-update, currently it's really not

tired haven
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I have plans to probably eventually move away from Windows (after Windows 10 and some PC upgrades), so the server software for the leaderboard stuff should be possible to compile for Linux if it's not made in some multiplatform language like Kotlin/Java (JVM languages(I don't recommend Python due to it's stupidly slow speed)). A Linux build of the game itself would also be useful when I eventually do switch platforms

hard moth
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That shouldnt be too hard

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I think I can start working on the game again tomarrow

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Finished my midterms today

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I think I failed my Calculus neuroCry

tired haven
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Well, ok then. II'll be waiting to see what you do next and hopefully it'll indeed be easy to port once I do switch platforms

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But that'll still be one CPU upgrade and one SSD upgrade away

sharp meadow
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Be fun if a secret final boss here was a betrayal if certain conditions are met

hard moth
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Balancing update upload tom (hopefully). And then starting the UI change + Anny

tired haven
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Ok cool, let me know when that comes out, although I might not be able to try it out tomorrow immediately

hard moth
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uploading in a couple hours. I think I got most of the problems fixed.

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Implemented <DM Allegations> and I think it works pretty well.

tired haven
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So DM allegations is back? Is it the same as before?

hard moth
tired haven
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Is it bound to a button?

hard moth
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[space], all abilities will be bound to [space] and all collab partners will have one

tired haven
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Ok, makes sense once you add more of them

hard moth
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So Vedal starts out with a <Starting Weapon: Rum> and <Ability: DM Allegations>

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Anny might have <Starting Weapon: Guitar> and <Ability: Illustration> or something

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Fillian <Starting Weapon: Flip> and <Ability: Suplex>

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these aren't serious ideas. (yet)

tired haven
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I guess that works, I will be trying it out probably as soon as I can once it's available

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Let me know when that is

hard moth
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Actually its playable rn so I think ill just upload it

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The only thing I havent tested is the Boss health bar but that's unlikely to be broken

tired haven
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Yeah, a bar should be quite simple

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Is there progress on the framerate bugs by the way?

hard moth
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Not really, but Im going to upgrade my godot version soon so I'm hoping it just goes away when I do that neuroPray

tired haven
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That would be cool, which version are you gonna switch to, latest?

hard moth
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4.2.2, latest

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Both the windows & web version should be the latest. (1.1 beta 2)

tired haven
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Ok, I assume that will be the same as the version for Neuro TCG (we're switching the client to Godot)

hard moth
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If you got the latest, yah probably

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Btw feel free to ask for any help regarding Godot specific stuff, if needed.

tired haven
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Ok, I'll let the others know too

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Well, one thing that would be good to know would be where to put the main part of the code, which incluedes server connection stuff. Another thing would be how to connect to a websocket server, but we can figure that out on our own probably

hard moth
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When I attempted at making a multiplayer game, I had two separate Godot projects, one for the client and one for the server. Is your server also run by Godot? Or are you using a different language

tired haven
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The server is Kotlin and has the ability to listen on a port for connections of the websocket type now

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It just needs to be able to pass strings around

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The main question is still what to attach the script running the connection to

hard moth
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I think an autoload is probably the best thing to use

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At least thats what I did

tired haven
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Even if we only need the connection for the game?

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And not in most menus

hard moth
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Wait is this a multiplayer or singleplayer game?

tired haven
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The game is 1-2 players and will have the possibility to play locally against a bot

hard moth
tired haven
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Will check it out once I can

tired haven
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Looks like the exe name is messed up

image.png
hard moth
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It is ima fix it on the next upload

tired haven
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Ok then

hard moth
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Fixed it on the itch page but then forgot to change the actual file name neuroDeadge

tired haven
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Is the thing that lets Evil heal from dealing damage still in?

hard moth
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Still in

tired haven
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Well, I guess I got unlucky then

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It is a very important upgrade for her

hard moth
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I think Ill debuff it, seemed too strong

tired haven
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Ok cool, the random crashing is still a thing

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I assume something with the main game logic thread, since the audio keeps playing, either rendering or physics

hard moth
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Just upgraded to the next Godot version. Hopefully its not there this time but will playtest to see.

tired haven
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I feel like Evil's spread damage is still quite powerful, although it is definitely more balanced now. She still seems to heal too much though. The dodge Vedal has is useful mainly for getting past one of the directions Evil shoots her fireballs in, hitting some deals a ton of damage. Vedal still seems too weak and seems to take too much damage, while Evil takes way too much damage without the soul stealer upgrade to heal her

hard moth
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So, debuff soul stealer, make Vedal's ability slightly stronger, and probably increase Evil's health a bit more?

tired haven
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Well, I feel like Evil might need a better way to heal without soul stealer, it seems mandatory. Vedal definitely needs to take less damage though

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I don't think simply increasing Evil's HP will fix the healing issue when soul strealer is not active

hard moth
tired haven
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I had max cookies, that was not enough

hard moth
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Hmm, maybe should I make soul stealer a default ability of Evil and just have cookies only for Neuro?

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Cookies already exist by default so it wouldn't be unique for an Evil healing ability to also exist by default

tired haven
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Maybe, the cookies seem to not do much when you do have soul stealer

hard moth
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ill try it

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I have realized that the game-jam channel doesn't exist anymore so I can't ask for playtesters there neuroBwaa will attempt programming channel.

hard moth
ionic thicket
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i tried the itch io version, and I played two games upto Lvl 11 (i think, i assume).
my only comment is that the i feel like the current 50% level for the music slider should become the 100% level

hard moth
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How did you find Evil's difficulty?

ionic thicket
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oh i only tried out the web version of itch io :xdx:

hard moth
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Oh erm thats the outdated version

ionic thicket
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yeah

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:xdx:

hard moth
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But good to know about the audio

sharp meadow
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Yell at me if you update the itch web version I might get to it eventually

hard moth
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Ok you know what I think I prob should just update the web version now

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More of a hassle then the exe version but seems like its much easier to access for playtestin

ionic thicket
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what does consecutive mean?

image.png
hard moth
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@sharp meadow give me like 10 minutes

ionic thicket
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as in, 10 damage for one enemy, 11 damage to the next enemy in range, 12 damage for the third enemy in range etc.?

hard moth
ionic thicket
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hmmm ok

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i guess that makes sense given its a knife not a sword

hard moth
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Basically cooldown - damage in bursts - cooldown - so on.

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Instead of a single "slice" that Neuro has

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so more like stabs

bold barn
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And I found pizza revolution appearing first over the actual pizza most of my runs

hard moth
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Web version has been updated to 1.1 beta 2 (Latest)!

hard moth
sharp meadow
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Once I do a playthrough I'll probably elaborate on how the betrayal boss would work if anything I still know about vampire survivors works here

hard moth
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I think itch died neuroDeadge

ionic thicket
bold barn
hard moth
#

Latest ver should already be on github

ionic thicket
# hard moth How did you find Evil's difficulty?

I found Evil to be easier (reaching Lvl 17 and then failing due to accidentally unfocusing), probably because I focus more on keeping the collab partner out of danger, leaving the AI to fend off all the enemies.
Evil's pizzas seemed quite useful early on (<Lvl 10) at getting rid of those claustrophobic crowds. After that, the fireballs became more important. Contrary to what I expected, Evil, who moves further away, ended up doing more damage to the partner than Neuro, who moves closer. With Evil, I was in need of chicken bakes; with Neuro I was in need of cookies. I found it harder to handle crowds with Neuro.
I think there's a difficulty spike around Lvl 8, when the slimes and goblins aggressively surround you. Once turtles gained a larger share, I found it to be less intense, because there were fewer enemies. I think the DM allegations skill could be conveyed better. I guess I'd like to see some stronger enemies appear sooner?

hard moth
#

Thanks for the detailed writeup neuroHypers
The progression should be slime->goblin->kobold(green guys)->soldier->knight

ionic thicket
#

maybe it might be useful to have some kind of timer somewhere on the screen so that playtesters can precisely convey when the difficulty spiked etc.?

hard moth
#

There should be one already (Tab to pause and see timer, upper right corner)

ionic thicket
#

though I guess lvl is a good enough proxy that its probably not worth the effort/maintenance cost

#

oh huh (lol never tried pausing)

opal terrace
#

I just tested it and the freezing still happens. When it freezes, it spams ```
ERROR: Condition "p_elem->_root != this" is true.
at: remove (./core/templates/self_list.h:80)

hard moth
#

Will look into it

bold barn
#

Yeah, i'm also experiencing random freeze/crash after 20 mins of playing.

tired haven
#

Seems like there is a bug that will need to be fixed, definitely not a hardware fault based on the number of different people experiencing it

cerulean bear
#

This seems cool. Does there happen to be a mobile version? I imagine not, but there's too much here to read through ๐Ÿ˜…

#

I haven't played the vampire one (forgot it's name) but I play another game of the same genre called magic survival, so I can help playtest

hard moth
#

More playtesting would be very helpful! Sadly no mobile version, though that can be a future plan.

cerulean bear
#

Ok. I'll probably have to update discord on my PC first, but I'll try to get it tonight

tired haven
hard moth
cerulean bear
#

So I gave the game a shot, and it's pretty good. I'll make a more detailed post tomorrow seeing as it's like 11:30 pm for me.

cerulean bear
#

I played it for another hour or 2 this morning, and my opinions have updated a bit. I'll break it down into sections

#

General gameplay

Overall, the gameplay is pretty fun. Having the AI have friendly fire was interesting, but also makes me not want to upgrade so I don't die. Also, It seems like enemies have fixed spawning locations, which have caused me to die or take a bunch of damage due to spawning on top of me or the ai. Markers for spawning locations or making it so they can't spawn too close to you should fix that though.

#

Vedal

Seems pretty good balance wise to me. Great support, but enemies tend to die making the 3 second stun not get value too often. Maybe a puddle size increase could be good? Also, he is kinda hard to heal. An idea I had for that is a mosquito upgrade that has a cooldown, but when you run into an enemy you heal instead of taking damage.

#

Evil Neuro

As an evil fan, I tried her first. As expected, my first round I didn't do the best, but I beat it on my second try and switched to neuro. I did other runs and I consistently make it past 7 minutes. Balance wise, she also seems pretty good, although her fireballs are kinda too cracked. Infinite pierce in 4 directions with an easily dodgeable pattern is really good. If the pierce was 2 or 3, that would bring in more in line. Also, the last fireball upgrade got me killed both times I took it pretty much immediately. It goes from 8 to 20 fireballs and is too much to dodge, so maybe try knocking it down to 16? And also, the description is unhelpful to those who don't know what touhou is (like me).

cerulean bear
#

Neuro

I am now convinced that she will be the death of vedal. She seems tailor made for killing the player due to her faster speed, upgrade that brings her closer to you, her constantly attacking sword that is impossible to dodge when upgraded, feather that can target you several times in a row instead of hitting enemies, an upgrade that redirects damage to you, and also a nuke that targets you (which is actually kinda helpful, as you can lure enemies into the blast easier). Most of my attempts were with neuro, and I usually die at about 3:30, and only 2-3 attempts made it past 5 minutes. Her most problematic issue is her main attack, because it is so easy to get hit by, that DM allegations is useless for it, and it's often too dangerous to aim in the direction I am moving (it also took me a couple attempts to realize that I aim her attacks too.) turning pretty much guarantees I get hit if I aim at enemies in front of me, so I am constantly aiming to the side or behind me while trying to dodge enemies. I feel like her main attack specifically shouldn't have friendly fire. Her drones are worse pizzas due to random targeting and smaller size. Maybe swap those aspects with the pizza, or have them target different enemies? The feathers are worse in every way to the fireballs. I found they target me quite often and end up hitting nothing as a result. I'd say remove the self targeting and maybe add a shotgun-like upgrade to make it more distinct from the fireballs, while also buffing it. The nuke is actually kinda fine as it is. I didn't even try gaslighting, as I already struggled to survive as it is. Raise the timer tends to do more damage than I heal most of the time, making it very risky to take, with not too much payoff. Basically, she is inferior in pretty much every way which, while accurate, makes her too hard to play.

#

These walls of text are my thoughts from about 2 and a half to 3 and a half hours of gameplay

tired haven
#

To me Neuro actually feels easier to win with, while Evil is easier to reach the boss with I think

#

Although that could be due to having played wit Neuro so much more than Evil, but Evil really lacks single-target damage, which is needed for the boss

cerulean bear
#

Fireballs final upgrade does enough damage, but is too hard to survive

tired haven
#

It's kinda hard to test though, since the game can just randomly crash at any time, so I'm waitng for that to be solved

cerulean bear
#

I never crashed once oddly enough

tired haven
tired haven
cerulean bear
#

Exe. I can't play on browser

tired haven
#

What OS?

cerulean bear
#

Windows 10

tired haven
#

Then I have no idea why you're not getting the crash, since I also run the exe on Windows 10

cerulean bear
#

Maybe it's an upgrade or something? I never once took gaslight

tired haven
#

I crashed with Evil just running around with a pretty normal build

cerulean bear
#

Huh. I might've gotten lucky then

tired haven
#

Could be

#

I'll try it out again next version, hopefully the crashing is fixed by then

cerulean bear
#

Actually, something that might help add variety are powerups

#

Like one that turns off friendly fire for a few seconds. You'd get these rarely from killing enemies

tired haven
#

Enemies already have a decent variety of drops in my opinion

cerulean bear
#

I mean, there's exp, a healing item for you and the AI and a very rare free upgrade

#

The power ups would probably be about as rare as the box, but it might be worth a shot. Of course, that would probably be a bit further down the line

#

Something I forgot to mention that I realized with neuro is that if future collab partners are slower than her, you literally can't aim in front of you without getting hit. Neuro is only as manageable as she is because vedal is faster

tired haven
#

A good strategy with Evil is actually to let her go completely off screen

cerulean bear
#

Yep. I actively want them both away from me, which make their attacks easier to dodge

#

I don't let her go completely off screen as then I can't maneuver her around enemies tho

tired haven
#

I think off screen doesn't even spawn enemies far away, since Evil never seems to get damaged when she's outside of the screen

cerulean bear
#

I find she doesn't take damage too much as it is on screen. Neuro on the other hand is basically a punching bag because I can't aim where I'm going half the time. I think my main issue is her main attack. It's definitely her best attack, but it's too dangerous. If it didn't have friendly fire, if she stayed further away (even not taking say it back isn't enough) or if it was easier to create distance between them I think she would be mostly fine

tired haven
#

When playing with Neuro using a functional strategy, she's the one that takes damage, but when playing with Evil, the damage taker becomes Vedal

cerulean bear
#

Like 80 percent of the runs I did, I'm the one that died, usually because of friendly fire. Evil is pretty easy to dodge, whereas neuro as I mentioned feels tailor made to kill the player. I don't have much issues dodging enemies thanks to playing magic survival, but the enemies there don't have any kind of projectiles or range

#

So I'm not used to watching both my front and back

tired haven
#

I feel like it's the other way around for me, Neuro is easy to dodge, while Evil is impossible to dodge in the end game

cerulean bear
#

The fireballs shoot in a set pattern. As long as you stay even slightly to the side you don't get hit. Her knife only hits you if she's close, which she never is, and same for the pizzas

#

DM allegations lasts long enough to pass through fireballs if you time it right, and it doesn't need any upgrades to do it either

tired haven
#

Well, to me it just feels really hard to dodge the fireball

cerulean bear
#

I can dodge the 8 fireballs quite fine, but 20 leaves you nowhere to hide, so it's kind of a downgrade

tired haven
#

It's whatever works I guess

cerulean bear
#

I don't usually dodge them too much actually. I just stay above or below the fireballs and they never hit me. If I need to cross the fireballs, I usually have DM allegations ready. I do get hit occasionally, but it's mostly a skill issue when I do

tired haven
#

Well, we'll see what the next version is like

cerulean bear
#

Yeah. I'm gonna try and get better with neuro in the meantime

hard moth
#

Thanks for the detailed review!

Having limits on fireball pierce is def something I prob should do. Maybe 2 initially and 3 in an upgrade. The final fireball upgrade I added more as a easter egg, I probably should add a warning for it.

Still looking into the crash. at least now I have an error messege to work with.

As for Vedal survivability, how usefull did you find the "Filter" upgrade? (Blocks certain percentage of Friendly Fire) Maybe it should be a bit more powerfull? Or does it not help much.

cerulean bear
#

For vedal survivability, I personally don't find filter particularly useful. Dodging means you take no damage, so if you aren't good at dodging, even with filter you are worn down quickly. Vedals only healing is a through a somewhat rare drop. DM allegations is useful enough without upgrades if I just need to pass an enemy in my way, or if I mess up my timing with crossing the stream of fireballs, so at most I upgrade that once.

All that said, my issues with neuro are definitely in part a skill issue. I just managed to make it to the boss with her, and I find myself making it farther with her in general.

#

I guess part of the friendly fire issue is that upgrading neuro and evil is a double edged sword. It can make it easier to get hit and to take more damage from a single attack

#

The speed upgrade does help dodge everything but neuros main attack

ionic thicket
#

xd i thought DM allegations was a passive. guess I didn't read all of the vedal profile

cerulean bear
#

Tbf, irl vedal does have it as a passive

#

I've had some more ideas that you could maybe toy with as well

#

Are there plans to add more to AI selection? I know there's only neuro and evil Neuro, so I was figuring that there wouldn't likely be a third option unless vedal makes another ai

hard moth
#

Thinking of more collab partners first, like Anny will be included in the next update. For another AI, no concrete plans yet, but maybe MelbaToast

#

Or, alternatively, alternate versions of Neuro & Evil

#

i.e. Angel Neuro, Pirate Evil, etc. But they prob most likely will be an outfit that comes with a couple extra upgrades rather then a whole new character

ionic thicket
#

you could do Hiyori

hard moth
#

was thinking of making an ARG map with Hiyori as the final boss

#

er, for copyright reasons, "ARG girl"

ionic thicket
#

maybe neurodog

hard moth
#

Thats a possible idea

cerulean bear
#

I see. My idea was to maybe have some upgrades be interchangeable during character selection, so you can mix and match upgrades to fit your playstyle

#

On another note, another idea I had was to add a stats screen at game over so you can see how much damage the different attacks dealt to enemies. Might make it easier to balance upgrades too

hard moth
#

For that I was thinking of numbers appearing when you hit an enemy, (Holocure does this I think), and larger & redder numbers the more higher the damage is.

hard moth
cerulean bear
#

Yeah, that's something that would be better a bit further down the line

#

Though there are a couple ways it could be done. You could give total freedom to the player, so if they want to go all attacks they could, or you could limit it so they have a certain number of slots for attack, defensive and utility upgrades respectively

tired haven
#

I feel like being able to get any upgrades you want would be what I'd prefer, especially for endless mode

#

The more choices you have for upgrades, the longer endless mode can stay interesting

#

If you don't have enough endless upgrades, you might even run into a crash when it fails to find enough valid upgrades or just the same upgrade 3 times

hard moth
#

Possibly then ill make it an option specifically for endless mode. For the normal mode I'm worried it may throw off the balancing.

hard moth
tired haven
#

You have 1 unlimited upgrade for Neuro and one for Evil, so it won't find 3 valid ones once there is less than 2 limited upgrades left

#

Either you need to add 2 more unlimited upgrades per character or you need to handle a case where there is only 2 or less upgrades available

hard moth
#

Crash still wouldn't happen since I made it so that 1 or 2 upgrades can be displayed, but, I do get what you mean. Endless would be boring with limited upgrades

tired haven
#

Yeah, you will need something for endless mode to add variety, although it is good if there is no crash possible

hard moth
#

The code for upgrades is the same as that for NTX 4090, so, can handle from 0-any number of upgrades neuroHypers

tired haven
#

Those could be something like endless-mode specific upgrades that directly add to some statistics while the enemies have the ability to increase their stats from a certain point on

tired haven
#

I think I ran into that before and it was a softlock

tired haven
hard moth
#

It will have a notification above the NTX that says "no available upgrades" instead of "Press F to use"

#

or something like that

tired haven
#

I assume that is a response to the softlock issue

hard moth
#

yup

tired haven
#

Kinda what I expected would be the fix

tired haven
cerulean bear
#

Limited upgrades isn't too boring, as long as there is enough upgrades for a while, or another form of getting stronger.

tired haven
#

My idea is the another way of getting stronger for endless mode, having more generic endless upgrades that just add to stats (some kind of multiplier) instead of upgrading some specific weapon. To compensate, the enemies will also get a stats multiplier that increases over time

cerulean bear
#

That's kinda how magic survival works, so I can vouch for that idea

#

Btw I finally beat it again with evil

hard moth
#

ngl even I haven't done that yet myself neurowheeze

#

I just assumed it was possible

cerulean bear
#

This time I focused more on the knife upgrade. I also think I found the strategy to deal with the bosses attacks

#

I need to test the strategy more, but circling it seemed effective

tired haven
#

Circling it was always the most effective start, Evil is just much harder to deal single-target with after getting enough spread for all the small enemies

cerulean bear
#

Actually, I just beat it again

#

Knife at level 6 is a bit nutty

#

Enemies struggle to get close, and if you stay close to the boss she kinda shreds it

tired haven
#

I guess that's her single-target focused attack. That doesn't fully solve the issue of needing a very different type of attack for the boss compared to normal enemies though

cerulean bear
#

Not really. It's really good against enemies too

#

I had level 2 fireball and 1 pizza

#

I think my rum was 1 level from max

#

I tried getting more summoning circle this time and it's a powerful combo for regular enemies

tired haven
#

I think I didn't use summoning circle when I tested, as it crashed before I tried that

cerulean bear
#

And now I killed it with pizzas

#

I think this was my fastest kill too. The boss spawns at 8 minutes, right?

sharp meadow
#

finally started trying the game, managing 2 characters at once and one that can kill you is quite difficult

#

feels like a ton of the upgrades are double edged, so maybe stuff like increase the timer or say it back should only show up in upgrade boxes, not in normal level ups

tired haven
#

Upgrade boxes (4090s) are only for improving upgrades you already have

sharp meadow
#

however if i need to pick between 3 upgrades that WILL kill me

#

it'd be great to have the ability to reroll or get a 4th option to skip

tired haven
#

You just need to know that you can aim Neuro's attacks by using the mouse

sharp meadow
#

yea the sword aims more in the general direction of the cursor

tired haven
#

The sword swings directly towards the cursor, it's just a feature

sharp meadow
#

it's like a 210 degree angle

#

getting the ai to move around while simultainusly not dying due to the swords is quite a task

cerulean bear
#

Quick question, but would you find recordings of gameplay helpful at all?

hard moth
#

Would be helpful, both for making a trailer and finding bugs

cerulean bear
#

Ok. I actually recorded a bunch of runs last night

#

I have a little over an hour of runs uploaded already, and I can upload some of the less good runs too

hard moth
#

Would be great!

cerulean bear
#

Sadly, during the last run I did, which was easily the best got cut short by a power outage. Thankfully it wasn't corrupted, but I did a touhou run

#

this was a generic run, but i made it pretty far

hard moth
#

I think thats the first youtube video about this game neuroHypers (That I know of)

cerulean bear
#

the rest are all focused around a specific attack

#

(also, FIRST!)

tired haven
#

I assume I'll be waiting on the next update to play the game again, as I don't want another crash

hard moth
tired haven
#

Makes sense, crashing mid-run is really annoying

hard moth
#

Aside from more balancing + some refractoring so I can add another collab partner (Anny). Currently the current code doesn't support it.

cerulean bear
tired haven
#

Well, let me know when the next update is available

cerulean bear
hard moth
cerulean bear
tired haven
#

Did you ever try letting Evil just chill off-screen?

cerulean bear
#

yup

#

in the touhou run i did for a bit

tired haven
#

Did it work?

cerulean bear
#

i tried to do runs focusing around a specific upgrade mostly so i could show off the balance easier.

#

and i didnt notice a difference. fireball kinda kills everything regardless

#

i prefer to keep her onscreen usually anyway

tired haven
#

But the point of letting Evil go off-screen is to make it easier to dodge and make Evil invulnerable to most enemies due to how they spawn

#

Not to make fireball more effective

cerulean bear
#

its easier to maneuver both ai around enemies if they are closer to you, unless they are so close they stop moving when you turn

tired haven
#

The enemies don't spawn that far away to let Evil get hit when she's off-screen

cerulean bear
#

but fireball killed everything so nothing could touch her on screen

tired haven
#

Well, she does have powerful spread damage, even if she's lacking in single-target

hard moth
#

Enemies, at least if things are working as I intend it to, should spawn at random around the borders.

tired haven
#

Well, then I guess Evil just kills them so well she doesn't take damage

cerulean bear
#

i noticed that so i sometimes try breaking though bunches of enemies. i've lost runs due to being on low health and having enemies spawn on top of me or the neuros

#

btw, there was a bug i noticed once that i just remembered

#

an enemy managed to get out of bounds on the top side of the map

#

i didnt see it happen though

tired haven
#

Never seen that happen

#

That's definitely a new one

#

At least for me

cerulean bear
#

i killed him all the same so it doesnt seem major if that was the first time

tired haven
#

Yeah, seems like it might not really be a priority at all

#

No need to fix something that happens 1 in 1000 times and does nothing but looks funny

hard moth
#

"Its not a bug its a feature"

tired haven
#

Unless you're already fixing all the bugs anyway all at once

tired haven
cerulean bear
#

but yeah, i'll continue to record runs as i play and share the ones that seem more helpful, or if something happens

hard moth
#

For the next update, ill probably be working on:

  • Minor balancing update based on feedback. Evil will probably get soul stealer by default but no cookies. Fireball will be slightly adjusted to have limited piercing of 3-5. Might increase chances of creggs spawning
  • Fixing the crash issue
  • Lots of refractoring so that more drop options can be added + other collab partners. Getting ready for unlimtied mode & new maps.
tired haven
#

Ok, seems good

#

Do you know what you're going to be using for the leaderboard server?

hard moth
#

Not really, I guess websockets work? But if I'm only sending data infrequently maybe HTML packets?

tired haven
#

Do you mean http? You will need to make sure it can safely authenticate with Discord authentication to get the username and varify that the user is not banned, so you will need a protocol that has encryption

#

Apparently

hard moth
#

I mistyped, I mean HTTP requests

tired haven
#

Yeah, that's what I expected

#

But you would need to use https really, since http is unencrypted

hard moth
#

Yah Ill have to learn that stuff if I'm using Http/s since I only ever worked with websockets.

#

What are the advantages of HTTPS requests over websockets?

tired haven
#

I assume http/https is more efficient due to not having to constantly keep a connection open

#

While TCP and websockets need to constantly echange packets to keep the devices connected and knowing what the status of the connection is

hard moth
#

I do know how to use something like Digital ocean to host a cloud server for websockets though if http/https doesn't work out. Just means I loose like a cup of coffee worth of money every month.

tired haven
#

My server can obviously do websockets too

#

That's what Neuro TCG is based on

hard moth
#

ill try figuring HTTPRequests though, there is a class in Godot already for it so it shouldnt be hard.

tired haven
#

What language will the server be?

#

A JVM-based application would be most convenient, as that can run both on Windows and Linux with the same jar, Kotlin could work for that

hard moth
#

Erm, sure, ill try learning Kotlin

tired haven
#

Ok, I can help with that one if you need, as I'm mainly a Kotlin developer

#

Kotlin is really easy to learn though, so it shouldn't be an issue

hard moth
#

How similar is it to Java

tired haven
#

It has some similarities, but it's very much better overall and can even use Java code withing Kotlin code if you need to use a Java-only library

#

Java and Kotlin can both coexist in the same codefile

hard moth
#

got it, shouldn't be too hard to learn then

tired haven
#

Yeah, just boot up IntelliJ IDEA and start trying stuff

#

A lot of my recent Kotlin experience is actually from rewriting an entire Python program someone else made in it to make it better and much faster

#

Anyway, let me know if you need help learning to use Kotlin or IntelliJ IDEA, IDEA is actually much better to use in my opinion than the integrated IDE in Godot

hard moth
#

I used IntelliJ for Java, so I should know my way around at least. Before I got into godot I used Java's awt library

tired haven
#

Well, I assume Java experience will be useful, as Java code can be ran inline with Kotlin

opal terrace
#

I already have a leaderboard server for Toasted. You can just use that if you want.

sharp meadow
#

Alr, betrayal/singularity idea time
Requirements: maxed swords, maxed angel wings, at least 5 gymbag drones, at least one level of say it back, Vedal only (?) and no filter upgrades (might add more as stuff is added that fits this)
Hard+ level (or one specific) map exclusive
With all the requirements met, once the boss spawns, there will be a small cutscene In which Neuro insta kills the boss using a descending strike attack (see moveset) while the drones handle any other enemies with extreme speed, some dialogue based on the collab partner (can't think of anything in particular rn), then the boss fight begins.
Moveset:
wing dash, basically a larger version of the angel wing's feather, but Neuro is moved along with, using her blades to deal damage to anything beneath.
Descending strike: Neuro flies up, before slamming to the ground in an aoe similar to the nuke
Insert third attack here: probably something with some drones?
Will still use regular attacks from angel wings and the swords

Overall, Neuro will fly around the collab partner, trying to stay a certain distance away, but will get closer as her hp drops, at 1 hp, she will fall to the ground, stunned, and remain there until A. Another attack directly hits her, killing her, giving an achivement, or B. The collab partner gets close enough, triggering another cutscene, which gives an achivement and unlocks her boss moveset (while not breaking out of control and attacking you purposefully), both options end the round.

tired haven
#

Whatever that is, it's most likely way too ambitious for now

sharp meadow
#

Yea probably

#

But kotge seemed interested when I mentioned betrayal boss before so

tired haven
#

Well, that kind of thing should just be kept as a possible idea for now

cerulean bear
#

While a cool idea, it would be near impossible to beat as the game is atm. you'd have to invest pretty much all your levels and get lucky with the options and boxes just to meet the requirements, and you have to do it before the boss spawns. then you'd have to manage to beat her with whatever few upgrades you get for yourself. not to mention she would hit like a truck without filter (although, for this she could be considered an enemy, meaning filtered wouldn't matter).

But this would be dope for a final boss or a secret super boss. Not sure if there are any plans to add a storyline to the game, but this would also imply that neuro learned and became more human-like throughout the game.

sharp meadow
#

The enemies held off by the drones would probably still drop xp

#

Allowing you to level up the collab partner at least a bit through the fight

cerulean bear
#

but by that point you'd be a pretty high level, so you would need a lot, and you still need to survive long enough to collect it.

I imagine that this would have to be on a longer level in order to work as is

hard moth
tired haven
#

Interesting. Maybe I need to remember that for Neuro TCG later if we need to use it and if we make something with multithreading support

hard moth
#

Yah you often have to use call_deferred for adding and removing nodes from tree (add_child and queue_free functions)

tired haven
#

Ok then, we need to note that down

cerulean bear
#

So I think I found the most busted build. It's also changed my opinion on a couple upgrades

#

The basic idea is to max out fireball, and everything else I pretty much put towards defensive upgrades like DM allegations, filtered, chicken bites, and rum are all good for that. With forgotten child and fireball I don't need to worry about damage or evil at all

#

I've also started getting more of a grasp on how vedal plays outside of being good support

#

His strengths seem to be more towards surviving and support, whereas his weaknesses are big rushes of enemies/being surrounded and lack of healing without at least 2 levels into chicken bites.

Basically, he does really well if you are great at dodging and have a way to deal with lots of enemies.

That said, I read something about a secret upgrade involving the summoning circle and wound up doing a rum run twice. Both times I could've killed the boss but didn't to see if I could get the upgrade and almost had a 10 minute game before I died

hard moth
#

Erm, sadly I'm yet to implement that secret upgrade and idk if I ever will neurOMEGALUL Realized it would reqire too much changes to code

hard moth
tired haven
#

Well, that's too bad. Hopefully there's nobody trying to run the game on a CPU with a ton of small cores

opal terrace
#

Even if, it's only the physics that will be single-threaded, rendering and stuff can still be separate. Also I don't think this does a lot of physics anyways.

#

It's better than random crashes for everyone.

arctic sirenBOT
#

You have unlocked new role

tired haven
#

Yeah, it definitely it

hard moth
#

Finished my refractoring, I should now be able to add new collectibles with ease.

Neuro has cookies by default and cookies are no longer available for Evil. evilWant

Evil has Soul Stealer by default

Vedal no longer has DM Allegations by default, however, he now has Creggs by default and the amount of health it gives has been increased to 7.

#

will be uploading tom and I can start working on Anny

tired haven
#

Ok, I'll test it out once it's available. Let me know when you start working on the leaderboard stuff and need to know stuff about the server

hard moth
#

Annytf upgrade ideas:

Guitar (From the original design used in IndieCure. Has knockback.)

Star (collectible that gives Anny regeneration per second that decreases in amount over time + resistance to damage)

Portal (Press [SPACE] to switch positions with the AI. Both AI and Anny becomes invincible for a while.)

#

<shock magnet> and <programming socks> will probably be available for all collab partners because they're pretty generic upgrades.

sharp meadow
#

What's shock collar? Haven't seen that one

hard moth
#

I think ill also give the playet the option to choose which 2 default upgrades to take

sharp meadow
hard moth
#

The upgrade that increases collection range

sharp meadow
#

Ah

#

Yea

hard moth
tired haven
#

Could be interesting, let me know when there's a new version available

cold egret
#

maybe something like vedal takes more damage in return for damaging the thing that hit him when he's hit

hard moth
#

Possibly. Or just giving damage for taken damage (cause Vedal dies too easily). Am planning on adding more upgrades for vedal in the future.

cold egret
#

true, I guess it should only make vedal take more damage if vedal gets an hp or healing buff

hard moth
#

I have set an internal deadline of next week Monday to finish Anny, hopefully I can finish by then.

#

After that + balancing and bug fixes there probably won't be a content update for a while as i'll be refractoring, creating a new UI, and attempting to make a server in Kotlin

tired haven
#

I can help with the server if you need help with learning Kotlin

#

Make sure to use JDK 21 for it, as it is the one I run most things on

hard moth
tired haven
#

Ok, let me know once you start working on making the server

opal terrace
hard moth
#

Will read through when I get the time

tired haven
#

I feel like having it made in Python is not as good as it would be with Kotlin. All we need is an API request to add a score with a Discord auth system in place

#

Unless the server is not the Python part and is actually in some other language, but JVM would probably work for this

opal terrace
#

Only the client example is python. The rest is nodejs because it also has a website to display the leaderboard outside the game.

tired haven
#

I don't think we can have that with Neuro adventures, Neuro rants is already a thing

#

And Neuro rants uses up the website port

#

So all we need is to be able to post scores to the server and load the scores in-game

opal terrace
#

It is there if Kotge wants it and otherwise he can just remove it. I am also open to hosting it if he wants to keep the website part. (this is an offer, not an attempt to take it away from you)

hard moth
#

Will do, though im estimating ill add the server around late July

tired haven
#

I don't think Neuro adventures needs a website to show the leaderboard

hard moth
#

True, I just need it in game

tired haven
#

Yeah, and a custom server in Kotlin would be a lightweight and efficient solution

#

Pretty sure JVM apps are extremely efficient compared to interpreted languages like Python or JS-variants

#

JVM apps are also good at being run on multiple platforms

#

Although so are interpreted languages

#

But JVM is compiled, so it's faster I think

opal terrace
#

I don't think a leaderboard needs high performance though. It's just wrapping a database.

#

Also JS is really fast because V8 basically compiles it.

tired haven
#

Not high performance, but being lightweight would make it easily able to run on the background

opal terrace
#

Anything is lightweight if it doesn't do anything.

tired haven
#

Yeah, but JVM is more lightweight in operation

opal terrace
#

For the 100ms of writing to disk, the disk will be the bottleneck, not the language.

#

Also the network

tired haven
#

That is not what I meant. I kinda want the server to be efficient to moreso save power than make it faster. Also saving processing power for when my LLM generates might be a good idea

#

If you can do something in an efficient language, you might as well do so

opal terrace
#

My point is that, because the workload is so short and sparse, it doesn't matter. 99% of the time, the program is waiting on the network and thus not using any power.

tired haven
#

My point is make it in an efficient language if you can

#

And JVM seems to be efficient while not being platform-specific compiled

opal terrace
#

In the end, Kotge can decide if he wants to write something new or if he wants to remove stuff he doesn't want from the existing code. Also if you want to be really efficient, write it in something compiled.

#

btw, Neuro rants is basically the same kind of workload and also written in JS

tired haven
#

Something compiled would need to be recompiled when I switch to Linux, possibly even partially re-written

#

Unless it's JVM

#

But I guess Kotge can indeed decide. I just recommend the JVM approach

hard moth
#

Got an AI character idea for later.

Neurobread

Lots of inital HP, but can't move.

Still working on Anny for now.

#

Though, making almost no progress and probably won't until my Finals are done. (around 6/18)

sharp meadow
#

I would probably take Neuro bread over sheer virtue of she won't murder me

hard moth
#

Who said I won't be giving her weapons? neurowheeze

sharp meadow
#

Probably better than the regular twins, neuro's swords above level 3 murder you, and from what I've heard evil is massive AOE

hard moth
#

The bigger worry with this character will be protecting Neuro

cerulean bear
#

Could have an upgrade where the bread dries out, giving her more defense because she'll be hard as a rock

#

Also, she should probably be able to move, but she's super slow

hard moth
#

Through hopping maybe neuroBread

cerulean bear
#

I can see her being a stationary defend point, but it's kinda hard to gather experience like that I think

#

Although, during big waves you would know to go back I guess

#

That aside, considering she is bread, a healing ability for healing the collab partner could be done. Maybe she shoots a projectile you want to be hit by, or a healing aura you have to stand in

tired haven
#

A Neuro bread that works as a turret and makes the game tower defense-like sounds kinda interesting to me

hard moth
#

@vernal hollow
I wish to design my own Anny character, since the IndieCure one doesn't fit the style of my game. Do you perhaps have any suggestions on a weapon that will be fitting for her (That is not the guitar)?

vernal hollow
#

but honestly weapon design is one of the things i also struggle with LULE

hard moth
#

Orbiting stars sounds good, since Anny has the skill to portal replace w Neuro.

Means I need a new pickup item though (it was originally to be stars).

Maybe oranges will work? I saw oranges come up pretty often in Anny's backgrounds.

cold egret
#

you should make anny have an upgrade like Neuro's drones but it's anny's pet who's name I forget (toffee or something iirc?)

tired haven
#

Toffee or Tof, yes

hard moth
hard moth
#

Current Anny upgrades.

Star: Spawns every x seconds and orbits Anny. Targets enemies that come within range and explodes. The longer the star is around, the higher the damage. (Supposed to synergize with Portal, so you can store up stars, teleport, and kill all enemies near Neuro.)

Portal: Press [space] to change position with the AI. Has cooldown (Works similary to the DM allegations)

Orange: Gives Anny health per second and boosts her attack for a set amount of time.

Toffee: Unlimited upgrade. Spawns a Tof. Will follow the cursor (To make them unique compared to Neuro's drones or Evil's pizza.)

tired haven
#

The portal upgrade sounds like it could allow for travelling a really long distance when combined with an offscreen Evil

hard moth
#

Didn't think of that, but I guess that is a tedious, but valid strategy to confuse enemy pathing, since they only follow the AI.

tired haven
#

It's not that hard to get Evil off screen

#

You could make it so the cooldown for the next one scales with distance

#

So you have some short base cooldown like 5 seconds and multiply that by maybe distance squared

#

Or something

#

So the more distance yoy teleport the longer it will take to come back after

#

Do you think that could work?

hard moth
#

Possibly, cooldown being x + distance squared makes sense after a certain distance.

tired haven
#

Yeah, having a minimum distance for that to start taking effect sounds like it makes sense to do, then maybe make it x + (distance ^ 2 - minimum distance) * some multiplier

hard moth
#

If distance > y
time = x + (distance-y) ^ 2
else x
time = x

#

In code, or something like that. Hopefully the numbers can be balanced w testing

tired haven
#

It should be if distance > y there

#

Maybe

hard moth
#

Oh yah

tired haven
#

I don't know

hard moth
#

Definetly if distance > y I typoed

tired haven
#

The way I would implement the cooldown in Kotlin with the equation I recommended would be something like

  val baseCooldown: Float
  val multiplier: Float
  val minimumDistance: Float
  if (distance > minimumDistance)
    return baseCooldown + (distance * distance - minimumDistance) * multiplier
  else
    return baseCooldown
}``` or something line that
#

Assume all the vals are set to whatever the game will use

#

The return could actually be lifted out of if, but that is not that important

hard moth
#

Any reason to why distance^2 - min distance instead of (distance - min distance)^2?
I guess it would make the cooldown directly based on distance instead of distance after the min distance.

tired haven
#

Either approach could work, but doing the squared after the subtraction could actually be better, but not sure. You can do either one you think is better, since it's your game

hard moth
#

Ill prob test out both formulas. Yours I think leads to a higher initial spike in time while mine is more gradual.

tired haven
#

Yeah, I think yours could be better for what I was going for with the idea

obtuse condor
#

Holy cow there's been a lot of development on this since last I checked, hyped to check it out

hard moth
#

Hoping to ramp up development speed once my Uni finals are over. (Next week Tues neuroHypers). Plans include finishing Anny, creating the leaderboard, server & infinite mode, and a revamp of the UI.

tired haven
#

Are you gonna make the server with Kotlin/JVM like I recommended?

hard moth
#

Probably, yes

tired haven
#

Ok, let me know if you need help with figuring out Kotlin or something related to it like the tools

obtuse condor
#

It froze all of a sudden idk what happened

image.png
#

Computer fans also started whirring like crazy

tired haven
#

I guess the game crash is still in the version you have

#

No idea if it has been fixed yet

obtuse condor
#

:( can I avoid it?

opal terrace
#

No, it's a race condition. It will happen randomly.

#

I think it's "fixed" by disabling multithreading for physics in the next version.

tired haven
#

Yeah, something like that. Just wait for the next version I guess

hard moth
#

I can upload the fixed ver in like 2 days. Will just contain the fix + minor balancing.

#

The one on itch still has the bug neuroBwaa

hard moth
#

Ok so i forgot that I haven't installed the latest package needed for exporting godot games so the update will take longer, and since im already working on Anny she will probably be included in the update. My uni finals are finally over so I can now put a lot more time into this project neuroHypers

finite hull
#

Finally found this again

viral talon
hard moth
tired haven
#

That's definitely Anny, looks pretty good

sharp meadow
#

1% chance for on hurt to play a second of the Neuro version smooth criminal (specifically Annie are you ok)

hard moth
#

Idle Animation compelete, ill be gone for like 3 days so ill probably finish the running animation afterwards. Plan is to get Anny finished this week, and then next week I can complete the UI rework, and after that the endless mode.

anny_idle.gif
tired haven
#

Looks pretty good to me, remember to make sure the server for the endless mode leaderboard can use encryption when authenticating if needed

hard moth
#

Am back, working on finishing Anny this weekend!

hard moth
#

run complete ! working up upgrades now. Progress slightly slowed cauz im placing pixels on canvas while simultaneously drawing neurowheeze

anny_run.gif
tulip frost
#

Oh damn this is still being worked on

finite hull
tulip frost
#

Is there any way to add a faint outline to the sprites? They blend in with the background a lot

finite hull
#

shadow ig?

hard moth
tulip frost
#

You're making it in godot or unity right?

hard moth
#

Godot neuroHypers

#

Still learning unity

tulip frost
#

From what I can find it looks relatively simple to add an outline honestly, you can download an asset and just add it as a shader material on the sprite

#

I don't have godot on this PC yet or i'd try it myself

hard moth
#

Yah I can add a simple outline using shaders, problem being since I drew everything to not have a boarder i'm not sure if it will look any good (with a boarder). Will try something using shaders, possibly, along with my UI redesign.

finite hull
#

would love to be a tester if possible

hard moth
#

Will make sure to ping when im finished with the Anny update neuroHypers

tulip frost
hard moth
#

np, feedback is always appreciated neuroHypers

tired haven
#

I will also be waiting for the Anny update, so let me know when it comes out

hard moth
#

Got anny working somewhat (no upgrades yet) and realized how huge the Neuro heads are neuro5head
Will leave the art as it is for now but ill probably update all the character sprite art at some point (I like Anny's smaller style better)

#

Vedal has slightly larger head than anny (though Vedal's head is enlarged by the hoodie.) and Evil&Neuro is neuro5head

image.png
#

Orr maybe I should just make Anny's head larger, idk.

finite hull
#

make annys head neuro5head

hard moth
#

The main issue with that is I already like how Anny looks as is, and am afraid enlargening head may ruin it neuroCry but ill test it out probably (in the future)

#

or I might just leave it and explain it off as an artistic choice of a style difference between the collab partner and AI, the collab characters have a more proportional head and the AI are chibi styled NeuroClueless

finite hull
#

now hat i look at her yea its good

cerulean bear
hard moth
#

@cold egret will it be possible to make something like a 'star pop' and and 'teleportation' sfx?

hard moth
#

Stars implemented, Oranges, Portal, and Toff to go. Even with just stars Anny was pretty fun to play as, holding stars and releasing them at once I think will go well with the Portal upgrade.

#

Its ๐Ÿ• time is from the pixel canvas, plz ignore neuroXD

tired haven
#

Interesting, are the stars controlled somehow?

hard moth
#

Stars increase in speed when an Enemy is near, but other than that, they just orbit around Anny

#

They also do double damage after they have not been used for a certain amount of time

tired haven
#

Ok then, sounds like that could be interesting, let me know when Anny is available in a build

cold egret
cold egret
#

It's pretty difficult to make a popping sound in bfxr but I made this, it might be too soft/quiet compared to the other sounds though

hard moth
#

Hmm, is there a sfx in bfxr that is closer to a sparkle? A sparkle might be more fitting than a pop on second thought

cold egret
#

hm, I can try that

#

I made a quick teleportation sound as well, though it might be too high pitched

hard moth
#

Oh, that sounds perfect neuroHypers

cold egret
#

yay neuroHypers

hard moth
#

I think that'll work neuroPog

cold egret
#

oh, yay! neuroHypers

hard moth
#

Just the Orange left to implement (Toff Ill probably add in another update as an unlockable since Vedal doesn't have a second attack upgrade option yet either)

#

Oh for the teleportation I changed it from the AI and Anny switching positiosn to Anny teleporting to whereever the mouse is (as long as the position is allowed). I tried the switching position with the AI one but it seemed quite useless since most of the time they're pretty close by.

tulip frost
# hard moth

Can you make the sound of the stars hitting a little less sharp/loud? It sticks out a lot compared to the rest, and I imagine might get quite intense at later levels

tired haven
hard moth
#

True, but I was worried it may not be useful outside of that one strat so I went for something more general-use NeuroSip

tired haven
#

Makes sense to me

cold egret
#

lowering the pitch actually just kinda made it sound worse, but I changed some other things about it and hopefully this is a bit easier on the ears

cerulean bear
finite hull
#

This would be good, btw aseprite user neuroHypers https://fxtwitter.com/MapleGecko/status/1808587342053011644?t=1lGpueDcJkyqiHTdMvN1iw&s=19

GIF - FxTwitter / FixupX
Introducing Asemulator! An @aseprite extension for previewing, testing and sharing your characters' animated sprites in context. #asemulator [More info in the thread below]
Goomboo (@MapleGecko)

Introducing Asemulator!

An @aseprite extension for previewing, testing and sharing your characters' animated sprites in context.

#asemulator

[More info in the thread below]

โ–ถ Play video
hard moth
finite hull
hard moth
#

Will definetly be useful if I'm not making sprites directly for a video game, since I don't have to make a demo Godot project to test things out NeurOhISee

hard moth
#

Anny update dropping in like 12 hours, (if I wake up on time). SMOCUS Most things are complete but I need to go to vedalBedge in an hour.

tired haven
#

I have no idea if I'll be able to check it out immediately, as I have no idea if it's playable with RD on mobile

#

Even with me having a keyboard for the phone

hard moth
finite hull
#

Will try it later this eve

#

After work

tired haven
#

Luckily I'm still able to use my PC on local, so I will attempt to check it out momentarily probably

cerulean bear
#

I'm gonna check it out myself now too

cerulean bear
#

My computer REALLY doesn't want me to play this. I keep getting things blocking it saying it's suspicious neurOMEGALUL

tired haven
#

Things other than smartScreen?

hard moth
#

The web version is also updated, if you don't want to go through that neurOMEGALUL

cerulean bear
tired haven
#

That's stupid

#

I just told smartScreen I want to run it and nothing is stopping me after that

cerulean bear
#

It is, but whatevsevilShrug

#

Same

tired haven
#

Interms of game balance, Anny feels very slow for some reason and it's very hard to dodge the boss with her active. For some reason it also feels like Evil is way too weak suddenly, her spread damage seems to b massively reduced and single target she was never that good

hard moth
#

hmm, I don't think I changed Evil aside from having the fireballs only peirce up to 3 enemies instead of infinite. I think ill increase Anny's speed a bit. I made her slower than Vedal to account for her increased HP but I guess I overdid it.

tired haven
#

Anny is not even able to outrun Evil, which is really slow, so you definitely overdid it. 3 pierce for Evil might be too low too

finite hull
#

feels like the exp pick up is a little big? or thats intentional

#

range*

hard moth
#

Its intentional, you can increase it with a shock color too if the option appears

tired haven
#

At times it even seems Anny is slower than Evil

hard moth
#

Yah ill try increasing Anny's speed to 60, 5 less than Vedal but still 10 faster than Evil

tired haven
#

It seems like if a lot of stars are clustered together, a lot of them hit a single enemy and disappear even though only one or two would have actually been needed

hard moth
#

I also found that a problem, I can probably implement a simple algo that makes sure they're separated by at least some distance.

finite hull
#

its spawns the first 5 stars correctly and then the second layer is next to it mhm

image.png
tired haven
#

You could make it so that after the main orbit Anny's starts use gets filled, the stars will start a new orbit. That could be done in some algorithmic way in which they will be able to start orbits evenly spaced apart as many times as needed

hard moth
#

Ill figure something out, though, I kind of want all the stars in one orbit. (For visuals)

#

I think probably the simplest solution is to spawn them at different positions each time in a circular motion, since currently stars just spawn at the same position always

tired haven
#

Well, having them overlap would work if you figured out a way to make stars check if the enemy needs more stars to hit it before hitting it and disappearing

finite hull
#

trying to get that thing superbox is saying pepemhm

ShareX_4kTywjhFuT.gif
#

i can somewhat see it when the slime dissapear with one star the stars next to it dissapears too even tho the slime is not there anymore

hard moth
finite hull
#

(the gif so laggy on my end i see it that way lul)

hard moth
tired haven
#

Cool, I beat the game for the first time since forever

#

At least that's doable again

cerulean bear
#

i had no trouble with anny and evil's speed tbh. gonna upload my first run, even tho the recording is laggy.

#

also, i noticed that i sometimes phase through projectiles? i think i noticed that previously, but not as often i think

#

having done 1 anny run, i can already tell the best strat is to build up stars to just melt the boss when it appears

tired haven
#

Overall, I think Evil might need a little more pierce, Anny a little more speed and the stars need to be fixed so they don't all disappear from one lowest level enemy. The framerate bugs are also still a thing, such as the black lines and I think some random level bar movements

cerulean bear
#

i just got embed failed neuroD

hard moth
#

I think video is private

cerulean bear
#

it should be unlisted now

hard moth
#

Gonna make Anny faster but decrease her HP I think I gave her too much considering she has regen. She has 20 more than Vedal

cerulean bear
#

i didnt pay much attention, but i did take a look and the regen seemed a bit slow. how much hp does she regen per second?

#

that and how much did greggs heal again? 5?

hard moth
#

0.1 without an orange, if she collects an orange it increases +0.5s for 30seconds and it stacks

#

It heals double the amount of creggs, just over a period of 30s

cerulean bear
#

so with an orange thats 15 hp over 30 seconds

hard moth
#

Creggs is 7 so I guess slightly more than double

cerulean bear
#

vedal was supposed to be the defensive one i think right?

hard moth
#

Defensive?

cerulean bear
#

like with upgrades and stats? its been a couple months and my memory isnt the best lol

#

i mean, he is a turtle so it would make sense tbh

hard moth
#

I guess? Hes more survival focused than attack, yah. His main thing is dodging and slowing enemies

#

Anny is more about facing them head on with her stars

cerulean bear
#

and anny is a fox so i would imagine she would be the faster one if you care about flavour

#

like a fast and agile attacker. hit and run with the stars as they need to build up, whereas vedal is more support based by slowing enemies

hard moth
#

Ill probably have Anny be slightly slower with slightly more HP (+5/-5) flavor wise it doesnt make too much sense but mainly the slightly slower speed is to balance out the fact that she can teleport

cerulean bear
#

the teleport is good for sure, i just havent used it much yet. i can already see myself building up stars and tp'ing to the boss to blow it up almost instantly

hard moth
#

Pretty much what I did on my test runs

tired haven
#

For me the teleport was useful to dodge Evil's fireballs

#

Anny is quite powerful with a lot of stars but currently she uses them all up really fast on just a couple enemies, so you definitely need to make it so the stars don't all get used on one enemy

cerulean bear
#

its definitely useful for dodging the fireballs. i usually run parallel or in a different direction than the fireballs shoot, but i eventually have to change direction and occasionally get hit in the proccess.

dm allegations was helpful if timed correctly (my main use for it) and teleport skips that risk entirely, but you can't do it as often, although you dont need to.

#

i'm gonna do a second run now, but honestly, fully upgraded portal being 5 seconds is probably gonna be way too strong. being able to tp where you want to is generally very powerful in most games considering how effective and versatile it can be

hard moth
#

Hmm, maybe Anny speed +2 (8 more than Evil), HP -15 (5 more than Vedal). Will test more to see what numbers work the best.

cerulean bear
#

second run done, and i tried a few things

#

so anny is faster than evil, but much like with vedal, changing directions lets her catch up

#

anny can facetank fireballs pretty decently if they arent powered up too much

#

focusing on their healing upgrades, fireball, stars, forgotten child and portal is probably the most immediate optimal build

#

evil's healing upgrade scales with damage, forgotten child gives plenty of damage, and 6 fireballs is plenty enough for her to do solid damage and stay healthy

anny's stars are also pretty solid damage-wise, especially with forgotten child. oranges with teleport gives her plenty of survivability in combination with her health

cerulean bear
#

So im still bad with neuro, but gaslight seems to be much better with anny thanks to the increased bulk and with enough oranges.

Teleport is useful for getting away from her, but is a bit hard to keep away from her as long because of neuros speed.

raise the timer might be useful in conjunction with teleport if you tp to a cluster of exp, but probably not enough to justify over cookies, or gaslight if you are using anny. (at least imo)

cerulean bear
#

Neuro + anny run being uploaded! it'll be ready in about 15 min

cold egret
#

I just had 3 fun but probably op ideas for an upgrade for anny, called anny are you ok

1st idea, anny has a low chance to randomly survive a hit that would otherwise kill
2nd idea, every maybe 60 seconds or so anny refills a meter that allows her to survive a hit that would otherwise kill
3rd idea, when anny is killed she has a very short amount of time in which she has to be hit by an attack from neuro, and if she is hit by neuro she respawns with 1 hp

viral talon
hard moth
#

Thanks, that would be great for when I need a slower sparkle sound effect neuroHypers

hard moth
#

@viral talon while you're here would it be possible to make a bgm based on the Neuro-sama ARG (https://youtu.be/zMlH7RH6psw?si=F1PzvWOMcZPiOAxO) ? The next map will be based on it. hiyoriVIBE (enemies will be arg-themed and the boss will probably be Hiyori)

YouTube
_neurosama
Study

For the best experience, listen with headphones, while studying in a quiet room.

0:00 - I don't want to be an engineer
4:18 - Fallen down
7:43 - I think I saw a ghost
8:39 - ???
9:15 - I don't want to be human
13:27 - uสop uวllษษŸ
13:58 - I'm not like the other girls

17:31 - I don't want to be an engineer
21:48 - Fallen down
25:14 - I t...

โ–ถ Play video
#

Roadmap is now

UI remake & endless mode -> new map (ARG)

tired haven
#

Interesting, I assume learning Kotlin for the server slots somewhere in there

#

Between the UI remake and endless mode release I assume

hard moth
#

yah, will be learning kotlin actually for the Neuro TCG, so I understand how the server works, which will be helpful for making a server for the endless server.

tired haven
#

Alright, you should ask Kai I think to get added to the server repo if you haven't been added yet

hard moth
#

I have access yah

tired haven
#

Ok cool, you can look trough the server then, although note that it is a websockets server and not an HTTP server

#

But at least you can use it to learn what you have access to, as well as syntax and stuff

#

And you should also note that with Kotlin you can use all Java libraries as well as Kotlin ones

#

You should get familiar with Gradle too, as it is the most commonly used way to add external libraries

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If you want, you could look at my application Discord bot LMI's code, that should be a decent example of what Kotlin can do and has some stuff at least related to HTTP

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I can give you the link to the repo if you don't have it

hard moth
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would be useful, thx

tired haven
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I wrote the code and Bluro made the repo, as I'm not that good with Git and GitHub

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It gets updates sometimes to fix and add stuff

cerulean bear
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Question. Has anyone managed a damageless run yet?

hard moth
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I would be supprised if it even is possible, but then who knows NeuroSip There is an achievement for doing a run without Vedal taking damage though. Speaking of achievements I gotta make some for Evil / Anny

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If anyone got Evil / Anny achievements ideas feel free to throw them out

cerulean bear
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so i have the honour of having the first damageless run neuroHypers

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also found another bug

hard moth
cerulean bear
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im uploading the run rn, but it works with anny so that might be yet another bug

hard moth
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What does the bug do?

cerulean bear
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I havent tested with vedal, but i turned anny into a pngtuber neurOMEGALUL

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the bug is at the beginning of this run, but it's easy to replicate. you need to start moving the second click start or retry

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it lasts until you let go of movement, although i didnt try letting go in the upgrade menu

hard moth
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oh lol I think I may have an idea why

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I recently updated the movement code to be more flexible, and that made it so that I have to manually make Anny's idle animation start at the start of the game, but I guess if you immediately start moving it just doesn't play anything. Should be an easy fix

cerulean bear
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tbh it would be kinda funny as a secret achievement to turn a collab partner into a pngtuber

hard moth
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true, but this might be too easy to find, since most people start running as soon as the game starts

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(in a lot of survivors-likes)

cerulean bear
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fair enough

cerulean bear
# hard moth If anyone got Evil / Anny achievements ideas feel free to throw them out

Left for Milk
For evil, if you are playing as vedal you need to have her off-screen for an amount of time cumulatively through a whole run, or a smaller but unbroken amount of time.

Loving Mother
For anny, you have to stay within a certain distance to either twin (pretty much disabling teleport) and you can't have say it back or forgotten child.

tired haven
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Making having Evil off-screen an achievement is a decent idea, as without that it might just seem like a side effect of her lower speed

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I like that idea

cerulean bear
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I have managed damageless with vedal now. Tbh, I thought he would be a lot harder, but it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be.

I will upload the video after the stream is over. Also, I'm thinking of making a tierlist of each upgrade. It will obviously be subjective, but I will try and keep it bias free

cerulean bear
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damageless with vedal neuroHypers

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i choose evil for damageless because her knife is the easiest weapon to avoid between the twins. Pretty much all of Neuros attacks are actively bad, the drones being the best of the 4, but they can still get in the way.

Healing upgrades are useless for the collab partner as they only work if you take damage, and the same applies to filtered. 1 level of socks is bad due to the bug, but beyond that is alright.

Key upgrades include:
knife and the collab partners attack
forgotten child
soul stealer
teleport and to a lesser extent dm allegations.

Using dm allegations is a last resort, because if you mess up the timing you usually will take damage. Fireball should be avoided at all costs unless you are an actual god at dodging, which is why i didnt take it

sharp meadow
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Neuro attempts to actually kill you with level 3 i think swords and up

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You cannot aim anywhere except directly away from you

cerulean bear
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Yup. Makes it really hard to use rum to clear the way. Anny doesn't have to aim her main so that makes neuro way easier to play

cerulean bear
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I have started on the tierlist. I decided to do it in Google Docs for a few reasons.

1: It doesn't jam up the chat
2: Idk how to make threads
3: More freedom over how I can format the tierlist
4: It's easier to keep track of past versions in case someone wants to play them

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Couple things I would like to note. Depending on your Google accounts displayed name, your real name may be listed, so if you don't want your real name to show, either change your accounts name (there is a LONG cooldown on this), or use a different google account.

The other thing is it's a WIP, and is not currently finalized. I may move things around or change rankings.

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I'm gonna do a bunch of runs over the next couple days probably to try and get more accurate rankings for pretty much every upgrade

hard moth
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Would be cool if we can make a wiki for the game like Holocure has, but no clue how to do it NeuroSip

cerulean bear
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same neurOMEGALUL

hard moth
cerulean bear
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fair. I'll probably have the tierlist's first iteration be under that version. any changes to the others?

hard moth
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All Ill really be changing is 1.) Sometimes Evil's knife didn't work as intended so I patched it 2.) The star should now only expload as-needed 3.) Anny's HP is reduced and speed is increased

cerulean bear
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ok. i found anny's stars to already be pretty good, so this will probably bring it up. I'll start with vedal and neuro i guess

hard moth
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Anny's HP will be reduced a lot so hopefully it gets balanced out

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Rn she has +20 compared to Vedal

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which is probably too much

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so new update she'll just have +5 compared to Vedal

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Oh and oranges will be slightly nurfed

cerulean bear
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dual strike and gaslight are gonna suck to rank, but if anny's health is really reduced that much gaslight will probably not be so hard to rank

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rn with vedal gaslight isn't too good due to his low health, where as anny has way more health, better food, passive healing and a shield of stars

hard moth
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Gaslight I remember being really great with maxed oranges, since Neuro became basically invincible and Anny healed really fast anyways.

cerulean bear
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anny can also tp out of a tight spot if needed

hard moth
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But yes with Vedal it never really worked. I think its more of an artifact to when cookies weren't available so it was the only damage reduction option.

cerulean bear
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Gaslight is good with a tanky collab partner as neuro can take almost no damage. Raise the timer however just kills you when there isn't a huge wave of enemies. would be pretty cool for a subathon game mode (unless you call endless mode subathon)

tired haven
cerulean bear
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Anny does need to aim portal

tired haven
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Oh, yeah, definitely not happening with just a keyboard then, there should be a feature to allow something like aiming with cursor keys

hard moth
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Possibily, though, it would be very hard compared to a mouse

tired haven
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Better than not being able to play the game at least, you could then also adapt that to aiming with a controller and have easy controller support for the game

hard moth
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Will probably think of a way to implement it in the next update

tired haven
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Ok then

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I like games that let me play entirely on keyboard like DIVA does

hard moth
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Ok I think ima give up on making the stars only hit one enemy ... I think its almost impossible unless I re-write the engine or something, nothing I tried seems to work.... I did however make the stars spawn with more space in between, so that should help the stars not overlap each other after 5.

cerulean bear
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idk much about coding, but would it be possible to give immune frames to the enemy when it dies so the stars just phase through? or maybe have the hitbox disappear quicker?

hard moth
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When doing such things I need to use set-deferred, but set-deferred is quite slow and the stars expload anyways, basically

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and I think stars are powerful enough as-is

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(Its an excuse to not fix this but erm)

cerulean bear
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yeah, stars are pretty solid. tbh, they would probably be too powerful if you fixed it completely.

hard moth
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rn, I made it so that stars still spawn in a 5 orbit shape, but the second 5 orbit doesn't completely overlap the previous orbit, its just shifted a bit

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Should be enough for stars to not be completely wasted but still not overpowered

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update uploading ... should be done soon. Oh I also updated the star sfx to be at half-volume but if its still loud I can lower it

cerulean bear
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Btw i have rough ideas about where most of neuro's upgrades as well as vedal and general upgrades are

tired haven
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I assume it doesn't have a keyboard-only mode, so I can't really test it right now

hard moth
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no, not for now

tired haven
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Well, let me know when you implement it, as it would be kinda optimal. Make sure that if you implement it as a movable cursor, you make it possible to change the sensitivity of it

cerulean bear
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I keep underrating filtered constantly. I walked right through evil with maxed fireball and forgotten child and lost only about half of my health. i got hit by at least 8 fireballs too

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anny also regens fast enough naturally with the same upgrades to tank 1 fireball consistently

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i did 1 game like this and got a time of 7:59

viral talon
hard moth
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Started work on the UI redesign & infinite map. Hope I can do it by the end of the week but considering Anny took twice the time I planned this is probably going to end up taking a similar amount of time.

tired haven
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I assume building the endless mode leaderboard server software is not included in that. Do also note that if you use the same dotev library I used in LMI, you can use that to make a simple .env config file for easy configuring of stuff like secrets, such as where HTTPS certificates are located, where backups go, any authentication tokens, and anything else that needs configs. Also note that using kotlinx.serialization.json lets you easily manage Json formatted data both in Json and string form. Let me know if you need any help with the serverside stuff or something, such as need to know the IP of the machine running the server or something

cerulean bear
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Would it be possible to add a menu option to look at the different upgrades with their stats and what they do? maybe a bestiary could go in there as well

hard moth
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Yup, part of what I am planning to do in the remake. Gonna make a separate tab just for the characters & their upgrades.

tired haven
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Sounds like a decent idea

cerulean bear
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one other thing. are there any plans to add a changelog?

hard moth
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Chanelog?

cerulean bear
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something that shows changes made to the game for each version

hard moth
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I guess github technically already does that? Although for major versions I can add a devlog to the game page (I made one for v1.0) ill probably add another devlog for v2.0

viral talon
hard moth
hard moth
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main menu in progress. Modeling it after Neuro's bg and I can probably have different colors available to fit the theme of different characters. (i.e. Vedal, Anny, Evil.)

image.png
vapid nacelle
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Should Neuro not use a chair as a weapon?

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Based on the fighting game collab she did

hard moth
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I can def add a chair as an upgrade option in the future, the dual-swords are from the Snuffy collab where she chose dual swords for her choice of weapon

vapid nacelle
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Oh okay, I haven't seen that one

hard moth
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https://youtu.be/oTqLDrmFAFk?si=M6EsFHU4ihPUPsOL
This one, you should watch if you haven't, one of the best collabs in my opinion SMILE

YouTube
Snuffy VODs
Snuffy & Neuro go on an Adventure

Streamed live 08-26-2023

๐Ÿง‘โ€๐Ÿคโ€๐Ÿง‘ Friends ๐Ÿง‘โ€๐Ÿคโ€๐Ÿง‘
https://www.twitch.tv/vedal987 | @Neurosama

๐Ÿฆ Socials ๐Ÿฆ
Check out Snuffy live: https://www.twitch.tv/snuffy
Official YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/snuffyowo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/snuffyowo
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@snuffyowo
Snuffy's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/snuffyowo

โ–ถ Play video
tired haven
hard moth
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YES going to add some cogwheels in the bg + in the upper-right corner โ— icon for announcements (basically dev-logs), ๐Ÿ† icon for achievements, and โš™๏ธ icon for settings (since there are now extra buttons for Characters & Leaderboard.)

tired haven
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Sound good to me

hard moth
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Got the main menu mostly working. Some other things i'm planning on implementing along with the UI update:

  • ability to chose your own starting upgrades for each character (If you really wanted, you can start with iNuke6000 & angel wings instead of Dual Strike & Cookies for Neuro, etc.)
  • ability to increase difficulty levels of each map (Raising difficulty will simply increase enemy HP & ATK values by a factor). You can't set difficulty for endless mode for balancing reasons / endless mode scales in difficulty over time anyways.
tired haven
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Seems good to me

hard moth
tired haven
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Looks pretty good to me

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Maybe you could try to get some animation with the gears, but it looks good even if you don't

hard moth
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Tried to, but didn't look as good as I would have liked so gave up. Maybe ill try again in the future. But i'm planning on allowing users to place the character splash arts in the middle.

cerulean bear
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Would it be possible to be able to switch between this and the current background without messing the UI up?

hard moth
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Erm, I can probably add a system to change bg to what you want. Maybe I can have the 'farm' bg as an unlockable if you beat the 'farm' map.

cerulean bear
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The new background is cool, but I think I prefer the current one. It kinda screams adventure

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Yeah, that would be cool

hard moth
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The main reason for the change is since ill be adding multiple maps, and having the theme be just for the farm didn't make too much sense to me, but I can definetly add the farm theme as a 'skin' of sorts

cerulean bear
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Also, I see you have the bottom 2 achievements. I still don't have them neurOMEGALUL

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I almost hade the drone one. I think I needed 1 more drone, and I might have also died

hard moth
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Yah I think I got the drone one already actually but it was before I made the acheivement update so it didn't register neuroSad

hard moth
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Progress on character screen. (Used my fes art as placeholder, will replace with a new nwero dual sword art ill draw.)

image.png
tired haven
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Looks good for being what I assume is mostly placeholder art

hard moth
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yah, upgrades will also have option to click on them and see each lvl in detail, plus select which ones you want to take as your initial upgrades.

hard moth
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Sadly after the UI update all saved settings will have to be reset because I did a lot of refractoring and internal changes to how characters work neuroSad

tired haven
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Can you not just add a function that upgrades the settings if it finds old ones? That's how I handled changing the way blocklists are stored with LMI

hard moth
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Well I've been doing it that way every time I updated the settings until now, but i've made some changes where it isn't feasible. I can still do it but it will be very complicated and messy so I decided to just reset.

tired haven
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Well, I guess sometimes that might just have to be done. I will definitely avoid it with LMI though, always keeping functions to upgrade even the oldest formats to the latest ones to keep backwards compatibility. A Discord bot for talking to an LLM is very different from a VTuber fangame though

hard moth
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Yah, I could have done so but then this fan game is what, installed and played by like 3-5 people in total? so I didn't think it would be too bad to just reset the settings, especially when the alternative is spagetthi code

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(with a high chance of not even working)

tired haven
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Yeah, migrating the blocklist file file was really simple, just take some values and put them in classes and put those classes in a file

hard moth
tired haven
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I assume there are some unbeatable combinations that give no attack power at all

hard moth
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I guess so, if you take non damage upgrades for both collab partners NeuroSip

tired haven
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You could add a warning to show if you select non-damage upgrades for a character, maybe you could also add some achievement for winning with one character starting with no damage

sharp meadow
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Add map xp items to make a both no damage character run work

tired haven
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Technically all you would need is one level that gives a damage upgrade

hard moth
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I think ill add types to each upgrades so its obvious which ones deal damage and which ones don't

tired haven
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Sounds good to me, I recomend you add a warning if no damage dealing upgrades are selected to start with

hard moth
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Got the rest of the characters done ... Took forever because I wanted to make it easier to add more characters in the future and had to refractor most of how I used to store character data.

hard moth
tired haven
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I assume you haven't implemented a 'no damage upgrades selected' warning yet

hard moth
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Not yet, probably will once the tags are implemented

tired haven
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Ok then

sharp meadow
hard moth
sharp meadow
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if there's ever a ton of characters add like a quickscroll wheel on the side

hard moth
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Updated roadmap.

Hard mode & Endless mode -> Map Selection UI -> Leaderboard & Server -> New Map (ARG).

After that ill probably add a new collab partner (MinikoMew) She's Neuro's first collab partner and I have some plans for the character already so it make sense I think.

hard moth
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you can already scroll pretty fast though