artist-alley

[chrome stirrup]

[storm flicker]

[brittle sun]

fat finger me

[storm flicker]

i guess whats bad sometimes is if uhh

the phone screen isnt oily enough

so its really painful to swipe

[urban summit]

Guys, Imma asking for idea: what british food do y'all think Evil would have?

I forgot to disable the reply

[tidal grove]

use baby oil https://tenor.com/view/смайлик-смайл-smile-ага-да-gif-16768912837796215019

[chrome stirrup]

chicken bake and canned rum

[storm flicker]

oiling up both the art and the screen 😳

[tidal grove]

beans

[chrome stirrup]

I have to grind shiny skin someday

[icy vale]

whoa wtf krita recent images kinda shocked me a little lmao (thats a lot of body parts

[urban summit]

Now that you mention it.

I already have beans for Full English for Neuro

[proper atlas]

where's the stargazy pie?

[tidal grove]

bro just dismembered Neuro

[icy vale]

tru i dismembered em just so i can rig it (mb neur)

[fringe granite]

Only the little knits left.

[ornate orchid]

Finished it, Disgusted Expression won 3:7 so I went wid dat

[lunar garden]

wow nice

[urban summit]

That looks familiar to something, I can't put my finger on it tho.

[fringe granite]

I am done with the dress. Comments?

[solemn heath]

You have unlocked new role

[austere pilot]

Pretty good!

[chrome stirrup]

Evil the Tanya indeed

[austere pilot]

A bit crinkly but nothing some deepening of the lines cant fix

[fringe granite]

Took me an hour XD

[urban summit]

That's it. She looks like Tanya.

[mint root]

Phone gang, lets goo

[fringe granite]

I wanted to make finer stronger lines but I don't have a pencil for that.

[fringe granite]

Can't take photos with my pc

[storm flicker]

w's in the chat for the phone gang

[ornate orchid]

Saga of Tanya the Evil?

[urban summit]

yep

[ornate orchid]

Cuz thats exactly what its based on

U dint see the Neuro one have ya?

^

[urban summit]

Ah, It's all make sense now.

I almost forgot. Happy Valentine's day y'all

[long rune]

wip any graphics designers in chat help me make it look good

i dont know how to make the text work with the drawing

[fringe granite]

Valentines day? What's that

[potent briar]

thanks for the references! i already find these, i'm looking for something more detailed with almost perfect symetrical front view for the ead so i can easily trace the face and catch the look as it is without extra design efforts and time and the rest i can handle it without references np. all i can find is references like the one you showed

[oblique badge]

then it remains to look for someone's unofficial art with chibi versions, I don't have any saved

[urban summit]

The text above is too blend in with the dark background. You could make the letter shade brighter.
The text below is a bit hard to read. You could thicken the white boarder of the texts.
The big text Alive, in Dead or Alive, is a bit too close to the right side of the pic. You could make the word close to both left and right boarder of the pic.
I hope these help 👍

Anything else is fine, I like it.

[fringe granite]

Guys can someone tell me if the Gaomon M10K would be a good choice ?

[urban summit]

I swear if this is a Deez Nutz joke.

[long rune]

woah i didnt expect that

[austere pilot]

I use a wacom tablet

actually, i have one with a screen and one without

They work really well for what i do, but i've never used the gaomon brand

[fringe granite]

i think i would prefer without display since those are a lot cheaper

[oblique badge]

Goamon deez nutz

[austere pilot]

Yeah, that's fair.

[urban summit]

YOU- sigh

I shouldn't have said anything.

[fringe granite]

i didnt do the joke

[potent briar]

yeah, i coudn't find something like that i was looking for it for a while now, if i find the reference i could make something like this in few hours, it's not finished only the front view looks fine..

i'm practicing on chibi heads and i really want to make one like that for neuro or evil

[fringe granite]

those are pricey.

[austere pilot]

Yep.

[fringe granite]

a pouting evil would be kinda cute tbh

[long rune]

hmm maybe "undefined sonic_alive"

[fringe granite]

i think i will exclude wacom for now XD

[austere pilot]

That's very reasonable, since wacom is one of the bigger producers

[potent briar]

yes

[fringe granite]

i was thinking about a HUION tablet but they only have wireless ones and my pc doesnt have bluetooth built in i think

[chrome stirrup]

you can get Bluetooth dongles for like 5$

[fringe granite]

i am stupid so i might not be able to build that into my pc

[chrome stirrup]

usb Bluetooth dongles

[fringe granite]

oh

yea i might get that done XD

[tidal grove]

Only a head?

[urban summit]

Looks great. But I dunno what to do with this part. The red text on white backgound makes the red text on black background disappear. Maybe you could change the gradient of the black part of the background to be less intense, so you can see the red text better.

[long rune]

hmm

[chrome stirrup]

man this is probably the longest a fandom has engaged my desire to draw

[urban summit]

Days of eating chocolate.

[chrome stirrup]

lemme see if I can still do spine2d animation

[fringe granite]

ah. so every monday?

[urban summit]

yeah, everyday is Valentine's day.

[tidal grove]

I want to eat chocolate everyday it's my favorite sweet

[urban summit]

Me too, but I havta control my diet.

[tidal grove]

Too bad gifting chocolate on valentine's day isn't a tradition in my country

[oblique badge]

I eat different fruit jelly every day, delicious and cheap, especially when you make it yourself

[tidal grove]

tho, i wouldn't benefit from that anyway

[urban summit]

Mine as well. Even tho we borrow some of their western Valentine tradition, we don't give anyone choccy, only rose and sticker.

[urban summit]

I envy you.

[urban summit]

Can I look at the whole pic?

[tidal grove]

We just gift a fucking card

[storm flicker]

Which do you guys think look better

[long rune]

first

[storm flicker]

Alright

[tidal grove]

second

first looks a bit deep fried

[long rune]

i like the yellow

but sure

[storm flicker]

oh alright thank you

Then how about this

Since sandro likes the yellow

[urban summit]

The white tab box being near the text making the text invisible. Maybe you could move the tab box away from the text.

[potent briar]

yeah i'm doing only chibi heads cuz i can make the rest of the characters without references i can just design the rest or use any references from any view angle, just the front head view of the head(face+hair) it's the most difficult and i don't/can't add extra design to it my self, i don't know how to draw it will take me too much time too make something good

[remote vortex]

a bit bright

[urban summit]

Walmart gift card?

[tidal grove]

Something like this

[urban summit]

god....

[oblique badge]

[gritty rivet]

Just for me?

[tidal grove]

But actually, i doubt a lot of people actually do that. It's more of a schooler thing

[long rune]

now its better i think

[tidal grove]

schoolers usually just make their own cards out of paper

[urban summit]

Can I look at the whole pic?

[tidal grove]

Baiting for a valentine's card on discord?

[urban summit]

Ok, that looks better.

[ornate orchid]

I read Schooler as 2 words that it shouldn’t ever be…

[tidal grove]

[long rune]

now to make the metal sonic pop out more with proper lineart

[urban summit]

School.... er?

[oblique badge]

[tidal grove]

Maybe add a white outline?

[long rune]

ok

[urban summit]

Ok, no

Delete that

[ornate orchid]

Aight hahaha

[urban summit]

Jesus Chirst.

hang on

Doodle (Smokers)

[fringe granite]

i love chocolate too

but even if there would be the chocolate gifting tradition on valentines day here i wouldnt get any =w=

[urban summit]

WIP

[chrome stirrup]

mildly translucent clothing is crazy

[storm flicker]

Trying to abuse before it gets patched

[long rune]

Let me see the patch notes

[urban summit]

[signal tide]

Today's progress is complete. Goodnight artists

[ashen valley]

Nice!

[urban summit]

Neat. Sweet dream, Prejudice.

That doesn't sounds right.

[chrome stirrup]

good night!

[potent basalt]

"that's some nice ears you have"

not sure why it made me think about big bad wolf story where he pretends to be a grandma

[potent basalt]

figuring out what to draw next... I feel like I'm getting hang of more and more of background vegetation in stylized form

and in general

[tidal grove]

a wolf girl pretending to be grAnny. A nice idea for a drawing. Too bad there is no wolf girls in Vedal verse

[potent basalt]

not a bad idea... it's like when I draw a catgirl but instead give somewhat longer/bigger ears or something and make tail a bit different... in anime style anyway it tends to be very similar

[cunning rampart]

ok guys i have not touched my drawing pad in a couple years i have no real knowledge of drawing at all, this was my first attempt at drawing neuro from looking at an image of her but not following it directly ik its shit but yea

[potent basalt]

keep at it! at that level you should see quick improvement if you draw enough regularly

[cunning rampart]

Thanks i mean im surprised i did as good as i did tbf it was better than i expected

But yea definitely ill keep at it i think it's Definitely helping that i now have a focus of something specific to draw which is neuroverse stuff

[austere pilot]

i like the bowtie :D

[deep hornet]

Try using reference more

[soft gorge]

my take on Neuro's fit on an actual long drive
-# i'm still getting used to using krita & a drawing tablet she's so wonky

[cunning rampart]

awwww that is so cute

[tardy frost]

SHE LOOKS AWESOME WHAAAT

[cunning rampart]

much better than my abomination that was also made on krita with a drawing tablet lmao

[tardy frost]

abomination mentioned

[cunning rampart]

what else is it but an abomination lol

[soft gorge]

lol, i'm not even gonna look for the screenshot of the first creature i made when i first tried the drawing tablet 😭

it's getting better tho for sure

[cunning rampart]

practice and practice and practice and not being like me and getting annoyed at myself lmao

[soft gorge]

yeah, relatable

[cunning rampart]

the one thing i liked is the smile i did was somehow perfect within 5 tries

[oblique badge]

I don't know why, but this reminded me of this poster lol

[soft gorge]

[soft gorge]

OOOO, I see that, yes

[cunning rampart]

its the arm

[soft gorge]

thinking ab it, my views on road trips might be a bit oldschool in general

[thick gale]

mkay lineart is done time to color

[cunning rampart]

wtf

awesome

yea you guys are too smart and good im not capable

[soft gorge]

erm

No negativity

you are awesome too

[thick gale]

i drew like 10 pieces at max i just spend a shit ton of time on each one

its not the best way to draw

[soft gorge]

it's not usual for sure

[cunning rampart]

tbf my sketch was done in like 15 minutes lol

[soft gorge]

[cunning rampart]

what?

[thick gale]

i try to get rid of this habit but i dont know how

[cunning rampart]

idk i mean it looks awesome so idk if you should the hair alone i dont think i could ever do

[scenic hamlet]

how old is she in the right picture, because this seems weird. Maybe the frown I dunno.,

[soft gorge]

same supposed teen? like 12-15, idk

[scenic hamlet]

But you get what I mean, yeah? It's like her cranium is different which makes her look older.
Also am I completely off-key having headcanon'd the twins to being 9-10?

[soft gorge]

i mean, my drawing wasn't intended to be similar to her style, so idk? 😭
i think everyone has different headcanons about their age atp, from literal kids to adults

[scenic hamlet]

... adults ⁉️

[soft gorge]

i can imagine some people being weird like that

[scenic hamlet]

I understand a lot more of the mems now.

And I am sad. Goodnight artists.

[soft gorge]

good night, sweet dreams

[fringe granite]

omg i was playing ender magnolia just now and i love the illustrations you can unlock in the game

[cunning rampart]

i imagine them as 5 year olds with sometimes advanced intelligence

[mint root]

Here have some cerby

[potent basalt]

meow... I mean woof ^^ looking good

[cunning rampart]

awwww

[tardy frost]

colored my drawing from a couple days ago

[oblique badge]

@cloud sky

<@&574931772781887488>

[crisp portal]

hi thanks

cleaning in progress

[rugged zealot]

oh my god I LOVE DISCORD SEARCH NOT SHOWING ALL MESSAGES FROM THE USER!!!!!!!!!!!

[faint valley]

[lunar garden]

[rugged zealot]

nothing happened here

[potent basalt]

I might quickly draw something valentine's day related... I don't really care about the event personally so it just sneaked up on me

[cunning rampart]

How tf did my terrible drawing end up on starboard lmao

[livid plume]

Why is there Deleted Message?

[cunning rampart]

I need to learn how to draw like this where the lines are so crisp and smooth

[icy vale]

Scam link

Probably

[oblique badge]

just practice, you will be there for sure

[mint root]

Line exercises helps alot

[cunning rampart]

Ill look into it, i have dyspraxia so i struggle to have fine motor control,

[potent basalt]

I'm more picky of my linework lol... in expense of speed

[mint root]

I learn something new, well I you luck

[misty pendant]

If you draw digitally, there's stabilization tools in for example Krita that can help. It's under tool options, by default the secondary tab after the color wheel.

I think many other arts software has it as well, but I'm only familiar with Krita and GIMP since they're free.

But we also make multiple passes at an artwork. I'm lazy so I usually make some guides for the pose and then a sketch, meaning two passes. But then after the sketch you could make third pass where you try to nail those lines, building on the sketch in the second pass.

[cunning rampart]

omg stablilization sounds like a dream

im using krita

tysmmm!!!

[mint root]

It seems I had a stroke I meant I wish you luck

Ibis paint also has stabilization

[scenic hamlet]

OKAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sagg08DrO5U
So this, but a Neuro cover, yes no?

[cunning rampart]

Taking the hobbits to isengard neuro

[scenic hamlet]

Oooh...

They're taking the twinbots to twitch tv, to twitch tv :dentge:

HELVETE

[cunning rampart]

Yesss haha

[scenic hamlet]

I love this.

[cunning rampart]

They are taking the twins to disneyland

Lol idk

[scenic hamlet]

kek

[cunning rampart]

I love it though haha

[scenic hamlet]

we need a 2-cyllable word for the twins or it'll fuq up the cadence.

"The neuros the neuros the neuros the neuros to DISNEYLAND to DISNEYLAND-lalala-lanD"

Why the genius artists asleep now? :notlikethis:

[cunning rampart]

Idk works ok in my head

[scenic hamlet]

That is a solid point.

[cunning rampart]

Honestly sounds perfect to me i mean isengard is three

I

Sen

Gard

[scenic hamlet]

Wat?

I'm talking about the hobbits.

[cunning rampart]

Oh lmao

[scenic hamlet]

"They're taking the <2-cyllable-word> to <3-cyllable-word>

[cunning rampart]

Yea sorry im dumb

[scenic hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-garrys-mod-garrys-mod-physics-fast-intense-gif-26322619

It oka

[cunning rampart]

Haha i love that gif

[scenic hamlet]

same

[cunning rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/neuro-head-spinning-gif-12552456361102904795

[scenic hamlet]

lucy you genis

I put on my robe and wizard hat

This is amazing. Everything about this is amazing.

[cunning rampart]

What did i do lmao

It was just a discord gif lol

[scenic hamlet]

It's Gandalf-nodding.

[cunning rampart]

Wait

[scenic hamlet]

Like in the epic saxdalf video

[cunning rampart]

Omg

[scenic hamlet]

see?

[cunning rampart]

Yes

[scenic hamlet]

You genis

[cunning rampart]

I am somehow a Genius

[scenic hamlet]

YATAAAAAA

[cunning rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059569601144442911/1338150995481591920/e745ccbce64629f70e3fe5e1c101c138.gif

[scenic hamlet]

The world might not be ready.

[cunning rampart]

Haha i gtg to sleep now but you are a cool person

[scenic hamlet]

No

[frigid wyvern]

More Goku fanart

[chrome stirrup]

flat tips are kinda bad for drafts, now that I've used it for some time

[mint root]

Vedals back

[lunar garden]

nice

[potent basalt]

took me about 5-6 hours to draw https://x.com/Clord124/status/1890619738423775610

Clord ✨ Looking for Artmoots ✨ (@Clord124) on X

It's Valentine's Day and Neuro-sama is cosplaying as #Darkness from Konosuba. She hopes you buy her a lot of chocolate (which she profits from). But can you say no to such a plead on #ValentinesDay? #heartheartart #Neurosama #artmoots #Valentinesday2025 #Valentines #Vtuber

X · Feb 15, 2025, 4:30 AM

I got so focused lol

[lunar garden]

nice looks good

[potent basalt]

glad you like it... I used low res reference what darkness officially looks like and then figured out how it culd look as cosplay XD

haven't really bothered to figure out why certain wiki site has png extension files that then photoshop tells aren't valid PNG files at all but resaving them in ms paint and they work just fine

ah it's some kind of photoshop compatibility issue depending of settings

[lunar garden]

ohh

[potent basalt]

someone over at neurosama subreddit really took an issue with proportions... I guess they had a bad day or something

[azure nebula]

That's too bad. I think it looks fine.
There's always room for improvement, though!

You did well on the hands

[potent basalt]

there are some reddit users that do it on purpose... they try to annoy people who submit art

so they word it on purpose it can anger people

seems that a moderator over there took care of the comment

[azure nebula]

That's good; there's never an excuse to be terrible

[potent basalt]

yeah... I have learned over the years better deal with online mentally... and in general... like I don't needlessly get angry and stuff as much nowadays

I tried to use stylized coloring for background and it turned out fine... kind of like sunset but excessively red/pink

[mint root]

I speedran this

[azure nebula]

Looks nice! How long did it take you?

[mint root]

I am not sure, this is just a part of the canvas. and the timer on Ibis may be wrong but shoud be around 40 mins
Is that good?

[azure nebula]

Woah, that's impressive!

It's very good on its own, but it's more impressive to me that it was done in so short a time

[potent basalt]

it's quite fast even without steps like coloring and shading

having very clean lineart like that in just forty minutes

[mint root]

I pretty much go from guidelines straight to lineart

[potent basalt]

reminds me of one of those artists that do good youtube videos with some advice... like recommending to take off training wheels kind of by learning to do just that... directly just draw lineart and go from there... context is that once artist get to that point he recommends giving it a try to see how well you can do it at times

[mint root]

I do recommend not chicken scratching when drawing and if you can't help it keep it to a minimum, it basically forces you to do the most efficient line you can do instead of it looking sketchy

[stuck ravine]

I’m too tired to be making a new avatar

[lunar garden]

nah they look cool

[stuck ravine]

Not cool enough!

[lunar garden]

i can't do that so for me it is, if you thibk that than why not make it cooler then

[stuck ravine]

I shall!

Cool boyfailure it must be

[mint root]

Never have I drawn too hard that I actually lost some part of the drawing, probably got erased at some point

[torn thorn]

check me out on ig

@torn thorn

[thick gale]

this color theory is crazy bruh

[remote vortex]

that color... looks like something but I can't seem to identify what

[signal tide]

It feels a bit like EVA and Gundam

[icy vale]

im thinking the lineart is fine now what yall think?

[misty pendant]

Yeah looks crisp.

[oblique badge]

Hair near face on the right is much shorter than on the left, which is a little strange. Twintail on the right doesn't really should stand out as much as it is, and twintail on the left needs to show how hair gathers there. Placement of chin is a bit confusing, and sleeve doesn't quite obey laws of physics

but overall very good!

[icy vale]

[vernal crescent]

cute neuro

[plain kindle]

[signal tide]

Should I add colors or is it fine as it is?

[remote vortex]

why stop here?

https://tenor.com/view/why-stop-here-why-why-not-jadokar-stop-here-gif-6575248200221380524

[potent basalt]

up to you but it's quite nice drawing to color

[signal tide]

Coloring would cover up the hatching, and I really like this style

I've decided to stop here and I had a great time drawing this

When I look back and see the views aren't as high as I expected, I'll probably end up coming back to color it

[potent basalt]

some artists do it so that they just keep previous stages

and just release same drawing multiple times with different stages of done

[signal tide]

Considering that Neuro's fan art streams have limited spots each time, I don’t want to take up too much space by repeating progress on the same piece

[potent basalt]

well that's different thing than what I mean like... sure if you post it on this discord under neuroverse tag it would happen but if you have social media account or something like that it's not really an issue there

I mean in general what artists do

anyway no need to push yourself to burnout and just deem art ready when you feel it's ready

[signal tide]

I understand, though there’s still some regret because I couldn’t bring out the colors as well as I’d hoped

hope to keep improving in the future

[potent basalt]

your art is good... really long hair is pain to butt XD

[teal cedar]

I painted a statue

I hope this the correct place that this should be posted

[storm flicker]

Hate skwtches so much

[frigid wyvern]

You still draw these with your finger?

[storm flicker]

Yeah ill probably draw on a phone forever due to how comfy it is

[frigid wyvern]

I'm scared of what you can do with a pen.

[storm flicker]

oh it would disappoint you

hmm also the feet shin lenght is incorrect lol

[potent basalt]

your precision with a finger is insane

especially considering finger tends to physically get in the way lol... obviously

[storm flicker]

wait really? thats flustering

i think i got my finger precision due to uhh

pastel and finger painting

since for pastel i remember i use my fingernails to define sharp strokes

like hair n stuff

[fringe granite]

how do i draw fluffy stuff? i wanna draw a winter dress that seems warm but i struggle with the fluffines

[serene monolith]

Im so sorry for even trying

wtf

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-anguish-despair-gif-13915908866750092639

[storm flicker]

lolol i swear its not that impressive it is actually pretty convenient since theres less stress on the wrist

[fringe granite]

i think it a thing about what you feel comfort with. i could never draw on my phone. so i will get a drawing tablet

at least once i am more comfy with drawing on papaer

[storm flicker]

oh thats true paper is really nice too

[serene monolith]

oh I could never

youre impressive

[storm flicker]

thank you

[fringe granite]

if i have some fluffy stuff like catears how do i draw that so that they seem extremly fluffy?

[long rune]

I just held up a glass up to a mirror, im my own reference

I needed hand refs

[storm flicker]

uhh

[chrome stirrup]

I replaced the pen nib on my stylus, how is it possible for plastic to become rubbery

it's been used for so long it feels soft

[frigid wyvern]

Sorry, I didn't reply

[chrome stirrup]

hi nowa

layering hair tutorial?

[frigid wyvern]

I think the thing that helps something look "fluffy" is bunching the hairs into very thick clumps

[storm flicker]

If u can see normal cat ears are like this i suggest just exaggerating the hair strands aroudn

[brittle sun]

drawing clothes in perspective

[frigid wyvern]

Like I tried to show in the image

[storm flicker]

Oh yeah nowas lines are better

[frigid wyvern]

Hi!

[frigid wyvern]

To further illustrate my point

The hair becomes less of a texture and more of a bunch of forms that attach to the main one

[chrome stirrup]

when drawing hair I look at 3d modeling timelapses

[tidal grove]

when drawing hair I don't look at the screen and just hope God will lead my hand

[frigid wyvern]

My hair drawing journey is forgetting how hair works, practicing, going "eureka!" and forgetting it again

[urban summit]

When I draw hair, I just wing it and hope for the best.

[thick gale]

finally its over

i am free

[deep hornet]

I just draw

[urban summit]

I'm 3 dollars.

[thick gale]

expensive

[urban summit]

I wish I could continue to draw on Discord whiteboard, but the thing keeps crashing.

[potent basalt]

hehe it sounds like short answer how to get better at drawing and I personally feel it as so valid depending of person anyway... on like very basic level a lot of hobbies are "just do it!" when it comes to be better at them... (this has nothing to do with methods employed)

[deep hornet]

I doodled my way here :LULE:

[potent basalt]

relatable... like my direct expenses towards learning to drawing is just buying like two tablets and what came with them

aside of that I just have mostly been drawing and drawing

[deep hornet]

My drawing expenses are just pen, mech pen graphite core and erasers :LULE:

[potent basalt]

considering how much it costs if one is really into things like expensive model kits... I'm fine dropping five hundred to a tablet...

[deep hornet]

I think it's fine if you're gonna use it plenty

I won't be using tablet too much :LULE:

[potent basalt]

yup... point is that as far hobbies go, this is rather cheap one by comparison lol

I look prices like lego kits and damn

[brittle sun]

you definitely improve by just drawing

but if you rly want to improve you have to conciously do it

[storm flicker]

Shadow map

[brittle sun]

our wife, borzoi

[deep hornet]

:forsenCD: :Clap:

[brittle sun]

but anyways if you rly want to improve you have to try to improve and learn
you have to try to put the effort into taht

[deep hornet]

True

That's why I rely on talent rather than hardwork :EZ:

[tidal grove]

[tidal grove]

👆 this

Imagine having to work hard?

[oblique badge]

imagine having to work

[tidal grove]

Bros missed that talent giveaway at heaven smh

[long rune]

Oh yeah? Did you know there is not talent its just working up a skill

[storm flicker]

Okay finished the uhh midtones

[potent basalt]

actual natural talent is stuff like ability to taste sounds, etc... different thing how practical it ends up being... most people when they talk someone is talented they just mean someone has learned to do something well or actually think they somehow didn't have to learn it that much which is just silly

[slow arch]

I love making a bunch of lines

[elder halo]

This place is so artistic

[slow arch]

It's the alley of artists

Bound to get jumped by art

[potent basalt]

those wings are so nice

[slow arch]

Thank you

They're a bit rough since I'm not the most confident in drawing wings

[tawny raven]

whohoah

er, uhm

[slow arch]

Goodness gracious

It's beautiful

[tawny raven]

lineart is a lil funny

[slow arch]

Earlier I found one of my older drawings

[tawny raven]

peak

[slow arch]

Thank you

[twilit scaffold]

Something I drew about a year ago, when I tried to learn painting. Then I abandoned that hobby, but now want to return

[slow arch]

That's so cool wtf

Great coloring and detail

[twilit scaffold]

Thank you!

[tidal grove]

Talent is a real thing. Some people just get things really easy compared to other people. Like they just naturally understand some concepts without any theory. Obviously, they were not just born with that, but they can unconsciously observe and memorize patterns passively and then just apply it. At least, that's what i see as talent

There are people who get perspective without even knowing what that is

Could be really heart breaking to see people like that in action

[tawny raven]

my mother spent most of her life working as a writer and an accountant, and she could draw beautiful landscapes without even practicing.

[tidal grove]

Not saying, that they don't have to learn and work, but it's just easier for them

Have a friend who is not that good academically speaking but he understands math really fast, and i believe he could be a geometric savant or something. He doesn't do math tho. A bit sad

[oblique badge]

Personally, it's easier for me to explain my idea of talent in game lingo. Talent is like the initial points you get when you start. But the limit of how much you can pump is the same for everyone. Over time, the difference between someone with talent and someone who works hard becomes less and less obvious until you can't tell the difference between them at all

[iron halo]

im mixed on the whole talent thing

[tidal grove]

Don't think it would be that way if both of them worked evenly hard

[iron halo]

i do feel like there are people who tend to use it as an excuse

one of my friends just straight up gave up on art because they thought they didint have the talent for it so they were never going to be good at it

and i find that unfortunate

[tidal grove]

But yeah, most talented people don't work hard, so hard workers could be more successful statistically

[iron halo]

its kind of a self fulfilling prophecy

[tidal grove]

That's sad. Misunderstanding of talent. Talent is just a boost for skill, not an indispensable condition

[iron halo]

they do AI art now instead

[tidal grove]

aw maan

[iron halo]

i personally believe anyone can do it if they want it enough and are willing to put the work in

[oblique badge]

true

[iron halo]

like some people draw with their damn feet

[brittle sun]

you can just learn art

people are just afraid to try

and put time into it

[tidal grove]

i hate the argument about ai making art accessible for everyone, cause it's the opposite in fact. I'm afraid to think about how many people didn't and won't try to learn art, cause there were that easy option. That's literally what they call a substance analogy in fiction

[brittle sun]

also one big thing people always do is compare themselves with others and get demotivated,
first of all dont do that, you are not them
second of all, when you compare yourself with others try to learn and understand from their art what you are lacking

[iron halo]

i wouldnt say thats making it less accessible though

[tidal grove]

Like to compare myself to DaVinki and think how better i am than him

[iron halo]

iirc that argument is pretty much what my friend said though

something along the lines of "i dont have talent which means i cant draw, so AI makes art accessible for me"

[tidal grove]

I mean, that literally can prevent someone from seriously trying to learn, when they can just use ai. A lot of artists started making art cause they wanted an art of something. Now you can generate an art of something in seconds

[oblique badge]

Most of those who write promts for pictures do it for money, or for self-assertion, and there is no question of any art

[iron halo]

yeah i dont disagree

semantics

[tidal grove]

I hope that isn't that big of a problem, but i can't know for sure

[iron halo]

i lowkey wish i delved into programming before AI because i am now completely helpless without AI while doing it

[oblique badge]

thats kinda different

[iron halo]

my point being that i gravitate towards that shortcut when faced with a problem instead of trying to learn properly

[tidal grove]

tho, my main concern about ai generated pictures is that now i have to check every drawing i see online if it's real or not. Would like if it was separated and wasn't being recommended to me when i want to see human art

[oblique badge]

We programmers have been stealing code from each other since the beginning of time and it's not condemned

[brittle sun]

my problem with ai art is that it floods everywhere on the internet

especially when i am looking for references

[oblique badge]

I fucking hate it when I try to google some picture and half of them are AI slag, and im not even talking about art

[iron halo]

i have an extension that blocks the majority of that

[tidal grove]

same

[oblique badge]

can you give link?

[iron halo]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublacklist/

[tidal grove]

an ai to fight ai slop
modern problems require modern solutions

[iron halo]

its this and i found a large list of websites that do that AI shit

[oblique badge]

thx

[iron halo]

this is the blocklist i have in there

its pretty easy to add more to it too

this is how much it blocks when searching anime girl

and theres still a lot that gets through

[oblique badge]

holy

[potent basalt]

yeah I'm aware what the real talent is... it just often gets confused by people with someone working hard and they feel undermined if someone then calls them just naturally talented while not... talent is something that comes partly from genetics and even how person nurtures their talents while growing up... it can be above average memory to recall things more accurately, easier time to memorize things, etc that tend to help

[tawny raven]

talent isn't necessarily genetic

It's momentary and preobtained benefits gained from circumstances outside of the learning process

ergo

a farmboy who works with hay bales and animals is naturally talented at weightlifting

multidisciplinary genius n allat

but genetics do play a part

[oblique badge]

but that isnt talant, just experience

[tidal grove]

i have 2 artists before me in my genetic tree. Tho one of them tells me to find a real job

[tawny raven]

art is not a career 😔

well, it is, but it's not a very liveable career under our current economic circumstances

[oblique badge]

Honestly, I'd be under a lot of stress if art was my job instead of my hobby. It's hard for me to imagine how hard it is for those who make a living out of it

[tawny raven]

generally

art is meant to be admired, not demanded on schedule

as it's a fundamental derivative of human communication

that er, inexorable paratemporal exchange of meanings between an imagined author and imaginary audience

the simple transfer of abstractioned sensory data is a fundamental aspect of the human condition which can only be most appreciated when allowed to flourish without needless economic pressure

[coarse vale]

I got sniped

[oblique badge]

lmaoo

no surprise

[coarse vale]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-cat-gif-25783770

[oblique badge]

That's the price of controversial art mate

[coarse vale]

That's the price of being based that is

[oblique badge]

[potent basalt]

yup makes sense ^^

[tawny raven]

ts fryin me

they never realized that there's always a way to get better at art

more sprites

[tawny raven]

Completing

[cunning sleet]

Anyone know some ways that I can get better at drawing

[frozen robin]

do master studies

[cunning sleet]

Ok ty

[cloud sky]

Hi I cleaned up the chat. Promoting toxic artistic advice and advocating piracy isn’t ok in this server

Nor is advocating for art theft

[lost stratus]

Okay, but is it theft if I give it back afterwards? Its really just borrowing if you ask me

[cloud sky]

If the advice is to trace over other people‘s artwork, then it is theft

If you want real advice, keep drawing and don’t stop. Watch how other people do it, and learn from what they do

Develop your style overtime

[tawny raven]

The true methodology involves a disciplined path of consistent practice and rote routine of muscle memorization, primarily through the usage of observing the world around you...It is best to accomodate the limitations of the human attention span by focusing on singular aspects one at a time...Proportions and poses via gesture drawings and anatomy studies, specific facial features through frequent searches across pinterest, colors through both straight up actually reading books on how color theory and light behaves, as well as observing how other good artists use their colors...

[tawny raven]

styles are developed by knowing what you like looking at and then trying to apply it to ur own art...Which isn't always the case, anything can be done across someone's journey for self expression, but I found that it was the easiest way for me. To take all the artists I liked and yoink the aspects of their art I liked the most.

and I'm serious about the tracing bit btw, that's just how art studies are most effectively carried through, when speedpaints aren't there to help with the process. Obviously it's morally incorrect to straight up trace someone else's piece and claim it as your own, but actually using the work of a better artist as a guiding line to understand certain aspects of art is a sound and oft practiced principle...

[austere beacon]

They say copying art is the best way to improve, when they say that they mean analyzing art and copying with your eyes, not literally tracing, and it doesn’t mean selling art that’s copied, just using it to improve and later make something on your own with the knowledge that you learned from doing so. Tracing art doesn’t teach anything.

[cloud sky]

Tracing art is useless

Learn with your eyes

[tawny raven]

er

[cloud sky]

Try to re-create art that you see in front of you

[tawny raven]

that's

extremely unhelpful advice overall?

Like, I get that it's more academically honest or whatever, but that just means the process is artificially slowed down for the sake of a cultural norm...

[cloud sky]

She’s not getting it

[lost stratus]

was joke about how its definitely not stealing if you give it back, but you can't give back art cos stealing works differently

[tawny raven]

it's

• trace art that you like
• copy it from memory
• compare
• draw while looking without tracing

[austere beacon]

It’s not. Tracing doesn’t really teach you much. When you analyze and learn techniques with your eyes, you will improve much faster and more efficiently.

[tawny raven]

You say this in a very matter-of-fact manner of typing

as if that makes what you're saying any less wrong.

Plus

that's the point

you combine tracing with other techniques to speed up the learning process

[austere beacon]

What I’m saying is that you learn faster without relying on tracing.

[tawny raven]

and I'm saying you're wrong

[austere beacon]

and that doesn’t make you right

[tawny raven]

Well, I suppose it can be right under certain circumstances, when practiced by certain people.

[austere beacon]

[tawny raven]

what does this even mean...

[austere beacon]

It’s pointless to just say “you’re wrong” without proving a point.

[tawny raven]

???

I've been continuously stating my point...

[austere beacon]

As have I

[storm flicker]

uhh i mean theres a good learning part about tracing but once youre done with that phase and you unconciously rely on tracing with all the learning concepts it will be worse

[tawny raven]

The act of tracing definitely helps with creating muscle memory and making the practitioner hold certain expectations for anatomy, esp for a specific artstyle. The important part is to make sure that the muscle memory or those expectations are backed by sufficient reasoning and basis...

[tawny raven]

complete agree

[austere beacon]

Yeah like in the very very beginning stages maybe.

[storm flicker]

its kinda volatile and different with everyone

[remote vortex]

that seems more like a talent thing

[austere beacon]

It will only hinder you past that point.

[cloud sky]

Talent doesn’t exist. Hard work exists

[remote vortex]

can we call being able to see a talent?

[storm flicker]

some pro artists at riot actually just trace certain objects/compelx poses first and then they stem from there on how to make their own variation so its really hard to get a good middleground that "tracing is always bad/good"

[cloud sky]

By definition, no

[austere beacon]

That’s a good point.

[tawny raven]

the statements above hold a level of reasonless dogma that I can't help but see it as rhetoric more than logic...

[storm flicker]

i presonally just leave it to people on how they make their art since everyone is different, as long as it looks good, other than the blatant tracing that steal art

[tawny raven]

Talent does exist, it's a known aspect of art, some artists are able to learn skills exceptionally quickly, or have innate callings toward the craft without prior training.

[remote vortex]

sad so what is it then?

[tawny raven]

And tracing does help with learning art, and it can take someone decently far.

[storm flicker]

im not really pro on anything here imma leave you guys to discuss over this

[tawny raven]

if the main focus is to ensure that insincerity, dishonesty, and artistic corruption, is weeded out, then I feel like we're having the wrong conversation here.

[remote vortex]

tracing doesn't really help much if you don't add your own swerve into the tracing

[tawny raven]

i'm talking about tracing as part of the learning process

not like, actually making art

[cloud sky]

The more you trace the more you rely on tracing

[tawny raven]

the shit you do for your warmup sketches

[gentle spire]

it isnt

[radiant garden]

I have never traced actually

[tawny raven]

And, er, just tracing someone's art and then adding your own flare to it just makes it tracing with extra steps...

[remote vortex]

depends really on what your tracing, some people trace the lines for practice, like circle

[gentle spire]

tracing scuffs your ability to do 3d construction

[remote vortex]

i think it more defends on the person

there's no bad technique, just bad people

[storm flicker]

yeah

[gentle spire]

i dont think its that helpful to learning at all overall

[tawny raven]

I don't think so. At the very least, this isn't as much of an issue as one might think.

[gentle spire]

if you trace you focus more on contrast lines and focus points than you do on knowing how to construct and compose yourself

[tawny raven]

That's only if you trace line by line

[gentle spire]

you wont learn how to draw by tracing

[remote vortex]

that is true, to improve exploring is important but at the starting point where you don't know anything, having the ability to believe in yourself is important

[tawny raven]

or specifically start by zooming in and then start tracing

[gentle spire]

i dont hate tracing as a tool but as a learning method it is deeply flawed

[tawny raven]

what about taking an image, lowering the opacity, then tracing over the silhouette? Or making a skeleton stickman over the pose?

[remote vortex]

true

there's really no perfect method

[tawny raven]

And the million other ways it can be tried and done.

[austere beacon]

Yeah definitely, it can help in the beginning stages of learning to draw, but it’s more important to learn how to see how to draw.

[gentle spire]

dont try to justify it or defend it honestly, i get that its a little painful for a whole community to disagree with something you do but you'll get much further and much better from just sketching

gesture drawings

3d constructions

its just part of the process

[storm flicker]

oh nah traceing over the silhouette is skipping over alot of fundamentals, but a skeleton stickman is a technique some pro artists use to learn how a dynamic gesture is constructed

[remote vortex]

but there's really more than one way to learn art, though constant practice is most important

[storm flicker]

after

[austere beacon]

Learning how to look at an object, and deconstruct it into basic shapes will help you out much better than tracing over someone’s art.

[gentle spire]

the only time you'd really be doing something like that in practice is in rotoscoping

[tawny raven]

making drawings from a silhouette is also how concept artists usually make their stuff.

[storm flicker]

i mean they can already make them

[gentle spire]

thats not inherently true

[radiant garden]

This is what helped me learn how to draw

[tawny raven]

key word, usually.

[storm flicker]

they are most def just lazy to construct the gesture from the ground up

[gentle spire]

^ this to is top shit

[storm flicker]

so they trace it lol

but they are pro artists

[gentle spire]

yeah idm that, but honestly once youre used to it, just drawing is faster

[tawny raven]

y'all regard master studies in a very weird way, I'll give you that.

[gentle spire]

master studies arent conducted through tracing

plus ive never been one for them myself

[remote vortex]

ah you graduated in an art school

[gentle spire]

nope

[tawny raven]

think emoji

[gentle spire]

art school doesnt mean much either btw

[tawny raven]

^^^^

[gentle spire]

if you wanna work in the field a good portfolio matters way more

and strong fundamentals

[tawny raven]

art school works best to make connections, and that's probably about it.

[austere beacon]

Art school definitely helps, but yeah you can definitely learn on your own.

[remote vortex]

yep working on fundamentals is the most important in improving in art

[tawny raven]

there's also the benefit of being bound to a schedule where you need to consistently practice your art, which can help your growth.

[gentle spire]

thats subjective

[storm flicker]

for example this is the only tracing i only really suggest if youre looking to learn with existing images

or these sorts

[radiant garden]

Would that be considered a reference image?

[storm flicker]

yeah

[remote vortex]

technically anything we can see is a reference image

[tawny raven]

references are usually just having the image next to you while you look at it

instead of directly drawing over it

[radiant garden]

Right

[tawny raven]

which falls in line with tracing.

[remote vortex]

at this point I have no clue what we're talking about

[tawny raven]

an argument is being made against tracing as a learning tool

[storm flicker]

were still talking about tracing but were discussing about the borders of it

[cloud sky]

shes trying hard to advocate for tracing

[tawny raven]

^^

I am!

[remote vortex]

ah make sense

[gentle spire]

unsuccessfully

[urban summit]

Oh my god. Why, how, what is this.

[mint root]

Hello just got here. Tracing is fine for learning and you shouldn't claim it as yours

[gentle spire]

hello tri

[tawny raven]

Sabotaged through social tactics and rhetoric more than sound reason...

[urban summit]

Hello Mika, and what is going on here?

[remote vortex]

you forgot about adding your own spin into the art

[tawny raven]

no that's still tracing

adding your own spin doesn't make tracing better

sob

[storm flicker]

i mean i wont really call you out on this if you wanna trace but others might not be as forgiving, and you are ruining your fundamentals this way

[remote vortex]

yep

[storm flicker]

i suggest just doing proko

[mint root]

I see tracing as trying to understand how something works through how it is and not by the process that it was made

[remote vortex]

but you trace for practice no?

[gentle spire]

just someone trying to defend tracing as a learning tool, a lot of us are in disagreement, me usually wouldve torn them a new one at this point

but i have no intention of being banned from this server

[tawny raven]

yurh, that be how I do studies.

[tawny raven]

omegalul

i am very weak to insults and namecalling, please don't be mean to me.

[storm flicker]

i suggest you keep tracing to yourself if others dont want to

[remote vortex]

true, honestly it's going nowhere

[gentle spire]

so im just watching

[mint root]

It is purely for practice

[urban summit]

https://tenor.com/view/vto-gif-25297219

[gentle spire]

its bad practice to begin with

[urban summit]

I'm too tired for this.

[tawny raven]

a false statement.

[mint root]

No? Why is it bad pls explain.

[storm flicker]

im just here to tell ppl that its pointless to argue this over with

[gentle spire]

a debatable statement at tbest

[radiant garden]

I agree with the peaceful resolution

[remote vortex]

feels like lying about how you learned but then again reputation is important for artist

[gentle spire]

teaches you nothing of 3d construction

[remote vortex]

yeah true

[gentle spire]

might set you back due to making you think about stuff purely in terms of outlines and contrast lines

ive seen it before fwiw

[tawny raven]

This only makes me suspect that you hold a flawed understanding of how tracing is done for practicing art in the first place.

[storm flicker]

yeah sooner or later you are gonna get called out publicly for this and will get witchhunted

[mint root]

Yes. As I have said it is to learn by what the art is in its final form and not by the process in which it is made by

[storm flicker]

so its really a "do it at your own risk" kinda stuff

[gentle spire]

if you have somehow a secret god tier tracing technique that teaches you everything, well, either make a youtube channel that explains it better, or keep it to yourself, cuz the way most people learn by tracing is shooting themselves in the foot

[remote vortex]

such is art, some appreciate it, others hate it, some don't care, and the others would make it their life goal to ruin your life

[mint root]

It is to understand how other artists do certain stuff you might not realize just by observation alone

[gentle spire]

yeah

anyway there are a lot of things wrong with it

both in theory, and in practice

its best left ignored

[remote vortex]

so similar opinion towards ai art I recon

[tawny raven]

u say that and then all you do is repeat one talking point and nothing else...

[storm flicker]

yeah kinda

[tawny raven]

ai art is a whole other bag of worms

[gentle spire]

i implore you to find a counter

[tawny raven]

similar ethical concerns though!

[remote vortex]

yep

[gentle spire]

honestly

id be down to opening up a magma studio shared canvas

and hopping on VC

so you can have your spiel in full detail

[tawny raven]

based

[storm flicker]

ai art is basically just another ref image

sometimes you wont even tell if the ref you got is ai

its tragic

[tawny raven]

AI art has an issue that's entirely removed and severed from the human condition in an unnerving manner

[remote vortex]

such is technology

[gentle spire]

you in?

[tawny raven]

yuh, send inv

[mint root]

I would love to see this but my connection sucks ass

[tawny raven]

I warn that my internet is shitty, though...

blablabla, bad internet, not comfortable using an open mic, such and such. But I'm still open for the magma canvas.

[gentle spire]

https://magma.com/d/SlX4RLK6DE
i warn that by the end of it youll have changed your mind on tracing

go on then

ill be in v

vc

[storm flicker]

but if you want to

[gentle spire]

borzoi you can hop in too

[storm flicker]

make an ai art and trace it
its like getting cancer and aids at the same time

[tawny raven]

https://tenor.com/view/soheb-saucelessss-gif-23665203

[cloud sky]

Please cease speaking about tracing. We do not advocate for it here.

[tawny raven]

i got the warning

[storm flicker]

okay imma just go listen in the vc

[radiant garden]

I also wish to learn

[storm flicker]

hello

[tawny raven]

TOURNAMENT VENUE

whaduh, im joining the canvas...

I'M IN

oh wow magma is way more difficult to use than I feared

[cloud sky]

ive not tried it with my new tablet

[tawny raven]

OOOH, OPACITY BRUSHES, MY GOAT...

[gentle spire]

https://www.youtube.com/@akihitoyoshitomi3758

[tawny raven]

[clever hinge]

if youre just copying the lines it doesnt teach u anything tho u gotta like see the shapes right

[tawny raven]

ye, but that's if you solely rely on tracing specifically as your premiere learning method...

which isn't my point

[clever hinge]

what was ur point again i forgot 😭

demantia

[tawny raven]

tracing helps for practicing art, especially when doing master studies. That's cuz it lets u build habits, expectations, and intuition which can be reinforced through other methods, like references and drawing from memory.

[frosty vale]

legendary moment of all time, borzoi joins call but not by accident

[clever hinge]

ohh so like help u remeber how to draw stuff by letting u draw it over and over

[tawny raven]

yurh

[clever hinge]

yea thats fair

[tawny raven]

i think mikaturtle's right about a bunch of stuff, like 3d construction and proper understanding of shapes and perspective fundamentally allowing an artist to actually have awareness over what they're making, since that's kind of like, an essential thing for total creativity and the freedom to make anything you want.

[tawny raven]

My issue remains that he's using that as an argument against tracing as a learning method, but the argument itself doesn't rlly work on what i'm trying to say, cuz it assumes that tracing works specifically on focusing on lineart and contrasts.

[clever hinge]

i think its js cuz u guys r thinking of tracing as different things

when i think tracing i think of the like the Really Bad shakily going over anime girl lineart and paint bucket filling on ms paint

[jaunty quiver]

Whoa what a backread~

[clever hinge]

REAL

ME IRL

[jaunty quiver]

I aint reading all that

[clever hinge]

LMAO

frfr

[cloud sky]

You really shouldn’t

[tawny raven]

I'm not allowed to speak on this further...

[jaunty quiver]

I was about to join the convo~ thanks for stopping me

[clever hinge]

NOOO this was interesitng to think abt

despair~1

[clever hinge]

join the convo i can argue with u in their place

[tawny raven]

wait

[clever hinge]

🙏

[jaunty quiver]

idk

[clever hinge]

lmao i js went onto the nyt connections

one of the words was trace

https://tenor.com/view/among-us-rant-amogus-stop-posting-about-among-us-stop-posting-gif-21710838

[tawny raven]

bgaaahh...all the art on magma is absolutely amazing.

@gentle spire your mountain example has been super helpful, and hearing you speak to glader about your point definitely shed some light on things that I should be focusing on more often. though I still don't particularly think that your points work to directly rebuke the usage of tracing for practicing art

[tawny raven]

@radiant garden it was drakengard, the worst ending (and the canon one) is where you, the MC, and your max level dragon, save the world but then get sent to japan where a JSDF attack helicopter shoots you down and impales you on tokyo tower.

yahalloo

i've been chatting on alley

yupyup

100%

it's also less bad if you just trace your own photographs

[remote vortex]

3d modeling works well

[tawny raven]

will be leaving this here,,,

[remote vortex]

see ya I suppose

[tawny raven]

Saved and posted.

[plain kindle]

[urban summit]

Here's the psd file.

[deep hornet]

NIce

[tawny raven]

thank u

[steady tulip]

Darn I missed all the fun

Though I don’t want to reopen that can of worms lol

Nyaro wip

[buoyant gorge]

ooh, looking good. i like the contrasting darker palette u got going on here.

[gritty rivet]

💀

Tracing is actually not that bad, especially if you are still learning.
Rules to follow are:

• do not overdo it, you still need to learn how to draw your own lines
• never trace someone else's art and claim the result as your own work

[tidal grove]

And then someone will repost that and claim that they did it. What is that? Cancer+aids+radiation sickness?

[gritty rivet]

[lunar garden]

...wow that looks crazy good beautiful and cool and many more

[lunar garden]

what about asking permission?

[lunar garden]

lol

[signal tide]

In fact, when I was studying illustration at the training school, the teacher specifically instructed us to use AI-generated images to compensate for our unfinished works, and then trace and improve them

[tidal grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196050318128058504/1281209376652136549/cigar_big.gif

[signal tide]

I didn't do that, so I was seen as someone not putting in enough effort, a lazy person. After all, that school was mainly focused on training commercial artists.

[tidal grove]

experimental approach

[tidal grove]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-yachty-censored-not-drake-tech-support-gif-8658410013845332703

commercial artists

makes sense

[signal tide]

No, i didnt mean that

[gritty rivet]

If the artist will never know, he will never care
(What I meant is, if you won't post it publicly, there is no need to ask permission, otherwise please do)

Actually don't. just make it clear that you traced it

[brittle sun]

important thing is to not just post it and say, ye i made that if you actually traced it

[austere beacon]

Bro what??? That's wild.

[signal tide]

This is an industry, and there are all kinds of people—it's not just full of artists and idealists. From a practical standpoint, AI can greatly boost production efficiency.

[austere beacon]

Oh I guess that makes sense but still wtf?

[signal tide]

well...

[austere beacon]

Yeah but is that really an art school? That's so different.

[brittle sun]

the only thing I'd say for an art school that is weird, cause its like never learning how to finish things

[gritty rivet]

I sometimes just get a bunch of pictures of objects/bodyparts, put them in a way I like my composition to be, trace the silhouettes, and then work off of it, editing as I please and adding detail

[brittle sun]

i mean that is how you need to work with references honestly

you won't find the perfect references

[austere beacon]

I live in a place with a lot of artist roots so the college there takes art more seriously.

[gritty rivet]

Here is the one I did it the most in (It's also was the quirk of my workflow, cuz I drew with a mouse and most of the time on a single layer)

[buoyant gorge]

I do something similar. Most of referencing for me is just picking and choosing elements that work for me when I need to tackle a particular issue like character design. There’s no single method on how references have to be used.

[tidal grove]

They will never know

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I ended up editing most of it in the end, so it won't even match with the original. But it helped me to build the outlines I was pushing off of

[signal tide]

If you were the CEO of a company and your game often needs illustrations for promotion, you currently have two options: an experienced but somewhat old-fashioned senior artist, who demands a high salary and might cause delays in delivery, or a few trained beginners, who, despite having poor hand-drawing skills, can use AI training to bring their work up to the same level as the experienced artist.

And these people require a lower salary, work more efficiently, and the quality of their work is more stable thanks to AI

Since I used ChatGPT for the translation, there might be some ambiguity, please forgive me for that. Also, it's not an art school, just a commercial crash course. The place I’m at is the only one where I can systematically learn what I want, aside from university

[austere beacon]

Yeah, but that's only commercial art.

[austere beacon]

OOOOH if it's a commercial crash course that's completely different LMAO

Yeah that definitely makes sense

[gritty rivet]

Btw, do we have a high quality png of the new model yet?

[tidal grove]

only bad quality jpegs

[gritty rivet]

Thanks

[gritty rivet]

I just noticed the “@tropsapt”

[jaunty quiver]

I wanna remove my backspace key

There goes my essaying take on tracing

[gritty rivet]

I agree with you, except that one point, that I will argue with you on

[jaunty quiver]

Heres a very short version of my essaying that I backspaced:
Create 3D pose > Trace (only limbs and torso) > Freestyle the hair, face & clothes

I'm not a 2D artist to begin with, so~

I'm tracing my own work/pose so thats not stealing no?

[brittle sun]

no thats just working smart

i wanted to learn 3d modeling specifically to make drawing backgrounds and foreground a more streamlined process

[jaunty quiver]

Yes I guess 3D is pretty good for backgrounds as well

[gritty rivet]

https://fxtwitter.com/sydusarts/status/1890339948298912188?s=46&t=iIOYx6VQG0C6iMrrTP4fMQ

[tidal grove]

Did you make the 3d model and rig tho?

[jaunty quiver]

Yeah like that~ basicly tracing only the mannequin part, and the rest will be drawn freestyle

[jaunty quiver]

I did

I have a 3D base model hehe~

[tidal grove]

Then you're good

[icy vale]

We still talking about tracing?

[jaunty quiver]

Also I've seen you doing blender stuff above~ Goodluck with it Troobs and have fun

we good another blender user, and it makes me happy

[tidal grove]

I've traced two or three drawings from 3d models. Feels like cheating. And moneka makes sure to shame me every time i do that. So i don't trace anymore

[jaunty quiver]

I mean ur only tracing the body shape~ You are still drawing the rest

[tidal grove]

Thanks! Fun i will have! I think most people underestimate how interesting 3d could be

But then you spend five minutes trying to understand why left arm doesn't move like the right arm, when you copy the animation

it was rotation mode

[jaunty quiver]

Sounds like a Rigging issue

Do you animate with IK or FK?

[tidal grove]

Yeah, one bone was in Euler and the other in Quaternions

I spotted that pretty quickly tbh

[jaunty quiver]

ohhhhh I know the feels

nvm its not rigging issue then

[tidal grove]

But how did it even happened? I symmetrized that shit

When you think, that you've run into every weird problem you could make, blender makes you a new surprise

[jaunty quiver]

honestly~ its one of those blender mysteries

[jaunty quiver]

I too experience those a lot

Last problem I had where none of the mesh is moving in edit mode~ so I had to search stackexchange and various web to fix it

[tidal grove]

Tho, looking at someone who just started always makes me feel so competent

[tidal grove]

Hm. Was that some modifier with edit mode preview on causing it?

[gritty rivet]

Nerds 🤓

[jaunty quiver]

I remember it was a toggle-able thing, Now I forgot where to toggle it again

[tidal grove]

I am proud to call myself a blender nerd

but i am still too far from someone like cgmatter

[jaunty quiver]

I'm not ~ just happy to talk to someone who have same interest as me

[tidal grove]

I believe, one could call themselves a blender nerd once they make their own addon

Maybe i will someday

[jaunty quiver]

Thats a very long treacherous way~ I doubt I'd even reach that level

[tidal grove]

And i will make a video on YT about that.
"Hey guys, grab my addon on gumroad!"

[jaunty quiver]

I mainly focus on modelling aspects anyways

[tidal grove]

Naah, you only need to master every editor type. Is this that difficult?

[jaunty quiver]

I know the basics of some, but its too much for me to remember~ Like I can't use Geometry Node Editor Stuff for example

[jaunty quiver]

I don't use: Texture node Editor, Movie Clip, Nonlinear Animation, Python Console, Asset Browser, & Spreadsheet

[tidal grove]

I'm decent at shader nodes, but still new to geometry nodes. There's just too much stuff you need to remember, and i don't do that quite often, so i forget it every time

[jaunty quiver]

Same~

Well I'll be doing something for now, Glad we could talk about blender stuff

[tidal grove]

same

[subtle gate]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1237186068449591308/1273318489645645927/attachment.gif

[potent basalt]

so many cute cat images online

[potent basalt]

people using 3D mannequins for poses and then rotoscoping... that has been a thing since art industry really took off in one form or another... like they used to have humans dance for footage and then drew a humanoid bear over it for example

so don't let anyone tell you that you're cheating for using them or feel like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4SuoTU

something which heavily utilizes such methods

[lyric pike]

painting slime but im kinda clueless atm

[main orchid]

An example of that classic rotoscoping. When it took figure drawing. We had a model performed a dance and we had to quickly sketch out the figure.

https://youtu.be/uCgxAag2Y6M?si=SNMiOdCZ6Tkeg7BE

[jaunty quiver]

Yeah that game Faith: Mortis with rotoscoping is really cool looking~

Even tho its just a bunch of lines

[tidal grove]

I mean, that's industry. Industry will always choose efficiency. But if you're just drawing for yourself, and one of your goals is to improve, then you will feel like you're cheating

[jaunty quiver]

just an example

[icy vale]

One day continuos trip so I can't draw (I went and stashed my pc and went on a trip with it)

[placid sky]

I love your clothing design works with weapon choices

[heavy drift]

I wouldn't know where to start but it looks pretty good to me. Altho maybe it looks a bit more gelatinous than slimy?

[lyric pike]

yes! that

[tardy frost]

maybe add dripping idk

[lyric pike]

i think it doesnt look slimey at all

[heavy drift]

yeah I was thinking dripping goes a long way for that

[lyric pike]

there's splashing around, im just not getting to it yet

[heavy drift]

mm

[oblique badge]

maybe transparency?

[lyric pike]

there was transparency in the sketch lmao

i forgor

[potent basalt]

I wonder why some modern artists has such hate of references when even disney has demonstrated in the past it's good and help artists to learn... like some artists make it their mission to bully other artists over it... because they themselves feel it's cheating for some strange reason then they also proceed to project it to others

in the past and even nowadays it's rather normal way to learn to draw

[tardy frost]

bc people have hated on them for it i feel like

[potent basalt]

vicious cycle

[upper laurel]

It seems that only here can send pictures

I made a function to chat with AI in the game

[oblique badge]

[upper laurel]

Can I send a video here? I can send a video demonstration

[oblique badge]

yeah, you also can post it here https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1095941852068331560

[upper laurel]

Thanks, I'll record one right away.

[urban summit]

Utilization, execution, and intention.
Also, Disney back then used Rotoscope because they didn't figure out the fluid movement for animation yet.

Thank you James, the Odd0nesout.

[main orchid]

Not like artists haven't used models and references for over 2,000 years of historical art. Even the Sistine Chapel utilized crude forms of tracing.

[upper laurel]

This is a demo video, I connected ai chat and tts

[oblique badge]

thats crazy

[urban summit]

Oh boy

[potent basalt]

yup... with modern technology we have also been able to reconstruct underlying layers of some paintings to view all that groundwork artists did back in the day before they painted over them

[urban summit]

NN gonna has a field day with this.

[tardy frost]

ive done rotoscoping!!

[potent basalt]

disney has in many ways been a pioneer back in the day

[urban summit]

yeah, can't argue with that.

[potent basalt]

rotoscoping sounds funny to me as a word because it just makes me think rotors and stuff XD like classic airplane rotors lol

because my mind is weird

[main orchid]

Watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit on a whim recently and for a film back in 1988, they were really cutting edge mixing 2d and live a action together. A mix of rotoscoping and advanced cell shading techniques. All done analog.

Though whenever I hear the term "rotoscoping" I keep thinking back to the film A Scanner Darkly with Keanu Reeves.

[tardy frost]

lemme see if i can find my old rotoscoping

found it

[urban summit]

[potent basalt]

I really like who framed roger rabbit... there are some much more recent examples but it feels like peak example of it done right on expensive production level

[main orchid]

Watching it upscaled on a 4K TV made me appreciate the film's subtle details, particularly Jessica's red reflective dress. The lighting on characters' faces and the stage also reflected the red, giving the illusion that this 2D character is there in this living 3d space.

[potent basalt]

budget estimate is like 50,6 million dollars of then money and it shows... and for the era such budget was deemed "too much" and they somehow convinced disney to give it a chance regardless... also they managed to have some warner bros characters lend with some stipulations

[cloud sky]

Rotoscoping is p cool. Looks time consuming lol

Love me some Roger rabbit

[iron halo]

i missed a bunch it seems

[cloud sky]

A decent bit of it was actually deleted by me

lol

[iron halo]

i think i could add that i used to do a lot of manga colorings in the form of tracing the entire piece and then adding color to it

and i dont think it did much for me when i moved to actual original art

the coloring part however kinda did

it was extremely time consuming too so i think other methods of learning are more time efficient anyway

[main orchid]

Rotoscoping is a fascinating art form. You can go all-in, like A Scanner Darkly, shooting an entire film and spending 18 months tracing it frame by frame. Or you can take a more budget-friendly approach, like Tom Goes to the Mayor, using a digital camera and a Photoshop filter to achieve a unique style

Ultimately, artists will always find creative ways to work with what they have. There are no taboos or rigid definitions of "real art"—what makes someone an artist is their willingness to push boundaries and redefine what's possible.

[potent basalt]

korean made animations over at youtube are so great... like a lot of comedic stuff

one I really liked has this over the top villainous acting guy but while he acts like a villain he constantly ends up doing opposite in terms of results

[cloud sky]

The conversation originally started specifically because a user was spouting nonsense about how tracing is a good learning tool and originally (now in a post I have deleted) explicitly said to “lie, steal, cheat, trace” which was extremely poisonous for this channel which is meant to encourage new artists and give them good advice

There is ethical tracing, and this is one of them as you have mentioned. But tracing as a learning tool (and then to go on a diatribe on how you should ignore the ethics and moral consensus of it even though they are a part of it) shouldn’t be something you spout to new and learning artists

[iron halo]

im curious, where would you draw the line?

like at what point does it become unethical

[cloud sky]

It’s murky.

But encouragement like that followed by paragraph upon paragraph of defending that point doesn’t look good on people, y’know?

[iron halo]

yeah i disagree with the "lie, steal, cheat, trace" thing for sure

[cloud sky]

there are definitely art forms in which tracing is the norm. Rotoscoping being a big one. Manga artists do it for backgrounds with 3D models

Tracing blank 3D models is also not that bad

Those are excellent learning tool specifically for figuring out anatomy

[iron halo]

3D models are another thing i have plenty of experience with

i used to draw over them and eventually it began feeling quite limiting actually

at which point i turned to only referencing them if even that

[vivid wagon]

Quite a few illustration artists I know use 3d backgrounds as a base for efficiency. But they usually also made those 3d backgrounds themselves in the first place

[cloud sky]

Sidenote, those four words are not the only thing they said. They went on to say to go on Pinterest and kitbash art together until it looks like how you want (like, in the same statement)