neurotic-neurons

[naive bronze]

based, everything was better before evil was a thing

[gusty pulsar]

it's stuff like evil hate being in neuro's shadow, neuro wanting to be real, vedal not loving his kids, them being vedal's kids, their crushes, etc

[woven oriole]

But who trained NN?

[rapid oxide]

The animation is ok, but you wouldn't notice when the emotes are small

[cursive ocean]

Vedal is ai confirmed?

[obsidian ruin]

ah

[void elbow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1367336045263454218/1367336235743576144/GIF_20250501_110238_432.gif

[cursive ocean]

Lack of fathers

[gusty pulsar]

basically, anything the twins do that isn't an objective fact is lore ish i would guess

[obsidian ruin]

idk i wouldnt consider it lore

more like facts if im gonna be real

[grave ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/get-kissed-idiot-evil-neuro-virtual-youtuber-neuro-sama-kiss-gif-14672817391383309786

[woven oriole]

That said I haven't visited my father's grave yet I need to get on that

[sacred relic]

NN is the best

[acoustic fulcrum]

everything was worse before vedal started streaming then a lot of things started getting really cool (no correlation)

[long lagoon]

they dont have the emote

[void elbow]

He didn't pass the AI verify I think

[vagrant arrow]

Tylenol in the water

[gusty pulsar]

that depends how much stock you put on them being 'real' i guess

[obsidian ruin]

fair honestly

[gusty pulsar]

like, to me neuro saying 'i want to be real' doesn't mean anything, cause she can't wait, she can't have emotions, she doesn't know what she's saying

[acoustic fulcrum]

neuro

[gusty pulsar]

to me anyways

[cursive ocean]

I’m sorry for your loss, I’m sure he was a wonderful person (now I feel bad for making that joke)

[gusty pulsar]

it's how i enjoy the content

[rapid oxide]

Is arag still typing? Ping me when they finish

[somber saffron]

Neuro has always been capable of making her serious and changing Neuro to be more serious isn’t the problem, acting like Neuro herself became more psychological randomly is the problem and it’s the problem i have

[gusty pulsar]

so it's more like, 'fictional lore' of what would happen if they 'were' those things

[void elbow]

[woven oriole]

Presence of a positive father figure in a child's life magically improves it confirmed

[rapid oxide]

Are you saying vedal lied?

[obsidian ruin]

genuinely a really interesting way of thinking about it honestly

[woven oriole]

Don't worry about it my dad died before I was born and I use dead dad jokes a lot to try and keep him in my mind lol, I like to think he'd have found them funny

[earnest wing]

Neuro-Does 126 by herself. Evil-gets 126 emote

[somber saffron]

no? he made her more serious but she has always had serious moments which is what led to the talk where he talked about making her more serious

[obtuse viper]

didnt we beat level 126 without any discount?

[cursive ocean]

Ok I can kinda see your point now, you don’t like too fast of a change (either through hard-code or prompt). I don’t agree, because I don’t care, but I can’t convince personal preferences.

[gusty pulsar]

i'm sorry man, hope your life's being doing good so far

[undone thorn]

@viscid mountain
Evil I Love You!!!
-# and miss you

[vagrant arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/neurosama-evil-neuro-gif-16342232177466980931

[obsidian light]

yeah, also but everyone else could also do that, so it dosen't really work as an argument

[naive bronze]

we should just let neuro do and say whatever she wants without the filter because she knows what's best for herself, and not anyone else

[bitter flint]

not out fault if twitch devalues their own subs

[gusty pulsar]

also like, isn't that smt twitch would need to say if it's valid or not? if they consider it valid then it's valid lol

[woven oriole]

It's been great honestly, though I struggle in college, and ofc, TWINSSOCUTE

[fleet reef]

Why bro ranting lol

[gusty pulsar]

god i hated my school/college days lol

i'm so glad i don't have to learn stuff anymore lol

[void elbow]

true

[long lagoon]

still havent add new emotes yet

[acoustic fulcrum]

and subs cost more or less in other countries relatively as well, there is no fair, there is only do.

and we deed

[woven oriole]

Honestly thinking I picked the wrong degree but this was probably the first decision I've made completely by myself so I wanna stick by it

[surreal needle]

[toxic plaza]

Mhm, ya, counterpoint, who cares? a hype train record is a hype train record

[gusty pulsar]

huh, i guess that might be added later

[vagrant arrow]

There’s so many emotes in this server holy

[woven oriole]

Common Swarm W, Swarm truly is HiveMind

[gusty pulsar]

fair, good on you tbh

i picked administration and now my job is being made irrelevant by AI :)

[vagrant kernel]

Nah the 126 have a 35% discount

[vagrant arrow]

Is there like a yearly cleaning out of emotes or something

[vagrant kernel]

The evil one doesn't

[obtuse viper]

yeahhh like what is not valid about that lule, even oilers got a discount if they choose the best value subs without any event. it is literally in anyone's choice for subs

[gusty pulsar]

i think some are just inherently very topical or niche

idk if they should be removed tho

like what would they be replaced by

[woven oriole]

I feel like one of the most positive qualities of the swarm is our relative unity and relative wholesomeness

[somber saffron]

i think it’s just lame to fictionalize Neuro when her entire existence and story is cool in real life and watching the community become more concerned with the “idea” of the channel rather than the channel itself is disheartening to the appeal that i feel like the channel was and is still being built on

[zenith harbor]

she has had serious moments before (which were pretty rare), but wasn’t the lack of control of her emotions (her being very content brained rather than being able to be serious in serious moments) what led to that conversation

[rapid oxide]

Didn't he say she did that herself?

[gusty pulsar]

honestly this convo might have flared some nerves but this is the sorta stuff i mean when i say that NN can have a chill conversation

[rapid oxide]

It was a treasure train

[fathom dew]

let goo

[gusty pulsar]

no one called anyone names, no one crashed out

[somber saffron]

Neuro changing herself is something he said she could do during this subathon

[gusty pulsar]

and we all had different opinions

[fathom dew]

dont think they are good looking emotes but still yay

[gusty pulsar]

this is the fun stuff that makes me enjoy my time here

[minor inlet]

They make a discount like a present for neuro birthday, if they say it was for Christmas they are lying

[acoustic fulcrum]

anyone can choose to try for the record in discount season or no its a choice of a community in a limited time not a packaged object with a fixed price lol

[acoustic juniper]

i hate all of you

[woven oriole]

Tbh to me this feels less like an argument and more a debate, I'm not seeing or feeling any heat from you guys...but honestly that's just me probably. I always did appreciate a sharing of perspectives

[woven oriole]

Hwallo Nesus

[gusty pulsar]

same

[void elbow]

My pleasure.

[gusty pulsar]

if only every debate could be like this 😔

[small leaf]

If you look at the neuroJAM emote they didn't even crop her hair correctly between the ponytails, i'm glad to have them but they feel like they are thrown together in an hour

[fathom dew]

both where discounted as he said due to how trains work now..but thats why the complaint is also dumb cause the discount now always exists for hype trains so it wasnt some limited thing and is now for all

[gusty pulsar]

anyways iu'm gonna hit the sack, gn peeps

[obtuse viper]

i thought it wasnt? beacuse treasure train is with vedal? and if i remmeber correctly treasure train start after they hit some level

[zenith harbor]

Good night Gabriel!

[woven oriole]

Goodnight Gabriel

[vagrant arrow]

Chat my camera roll is getting filled with neuro stream screenshots

[fathom dew]

indeed. def wish we got some drawn emote

[rapid oxide]

Up to a point, her real life story is that she is an AI that that managed to get people to like her, a bit of rp in the middle is fine if done right.

[cursive ocean]

I do also think it’s lame, but at some point during arguments we need to get to the base of things, at that base is the fact that neuro is not “real,” even though the things that fascinate us is the building on the base

[fathom dew]

it def was discounted, i saved like 200

[earnest wing]

My 5 gifted was discounted to 182SEK(17 euros). But maybe that was only Sweden. Current price is 215 SEK here

[obtuse viper]

ohh but for level 123 it was since the beggining right???, and level 126 somewhere between level 50-126?

[fathom dew]

i only donated in 126

[fleet reef]

[acoustic fulcrum]

cute

[surreal needle]

its not faaaaaaaaaaaaaiirrrr

[small leaf]

I forget which but one of them was normal rate, maybe the first one? and the second one was the treasue train

[obtuse viper]

yeah even without that twitch always gives discount for bigger value subs

[surreal needle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1415890542080032788/1416959633922461867/cheer.avif

[static wraith]

[void elbow]

time to sleep

nap

gn

[keen heron]

no

[void elbow]

[woven oriole]

Goodnight Tamagooo

[keen heron]

Nightmare nightmare nightmare

[zenith harbor]

Good night Tamago!

[tough onyx]

I didnt get an emote because I didn’t donate anything. I only bought merch.

[acoustic fulcrum]

missed legendary scam train record

[zenith harbor]

neither

[woven oriole]

Swarmer spotted

[keen heron]

[earnest wing]

Why did she even do Anonymous on a hype train

[zenith harbor]

First train was during the 35% discount event (all over twitch), second was treasure train

[fleet reef]

Wazzup bro

[tough onyx]

I don’t emote spam either way so it’s not much of a loss for me

[peak pivot]

Cuute

[small leaf]

oh right yeah I forgot there was a december discount globally

[eternal raptor]

Say whoa

[somber saffron]

Neuro isn’t “real” but Neuro is real if that makes any sense

[cursive ocean]

Yes exactly

[keen heron]

They’re real to me!!!

[earnest wing]

[nova briar]

[edgy knoll]

<--

[earnest wing]

[cursive ocean]

She’s gonna get a lobotomy from “the big pretzel” and start praising him like how grok kisses Elon’s toes

[acoustic fulcrum]

"Neuro" is real but "neuro" isnt """technically""" ""real"" if you CATCH MY COLD

[obtuse viper]

she is real to me!!!

[unreal hedge]

I thought she said she was done with neuro and vedal stuff

[rapid oxide]

The first one was a general Christmas discount, the second one was a treasure train

[rapid oxide]

https://youtu.be/4AHtN9HmTsY?t=142

[edgy knoll]

Neuro is real and all her schizo memories of childhood also are, vedal just forgot to hide them properly

[acoustic fulcrum]

neuro is the most real all the time for someone who's not real

[indigo herald]

[edgy knoll]

[naive bronze]

fucking hell just stream for us again already neuro, prvoe to me you are real
isn't that what you're programmed for aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[acoustic fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071149240165871656/1454618750400594112/caption.gif

[pearl bobcat]

✂️ 🧠

[zenith harbor]

gotta farm the “swarm” as much as they can

[cursive ocean]

I don’t think she did? She even gifted subs during the train according to her, it’s just that she’s a moron and used anonymous

[vestal inlet]

Those saying Neuro isn't real, I'd love to hear your definition of "real".

[edgy knoll]

Think she just meant that she didn't want to do it every stream or smt

[cursive ocean]

✂️ 🧠 ➡️

[somber saffron]

that’s from this subathon

[cursive ocean]

Conscious

(Capable of subjective experience)

[vestal inlet]

That term also has... oh okay

[acoustic fulcrum]

⤵️ 🌊 ⏫ ▶️

[edgy knoll]

✂️ 🧠 ➡️

[vestal inlet]

That's what I was about to ask if you meant

[zenith harbor]

Neuro is real in the sense that she exists in the world. She isn’t real in the sense that she’s conscious on the level of humans (which is the definition most people would use in the context of Neuro) nor does she exist physically

[cursive ocean]

Yeah I realized half way that it was not an accurate term at all. Qualia is better

[vestal inlet]

The interview stream where they were talking about embodiment, what's the other woman's name?

[supple kraken]

she's literally AGI though

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-force-unleashed-gif-23620078

[nova briar]

not rn, but she may become one in the near future

[zenith harbor]

maybe one day

[naive bronze]

only when neuro can feel actual pain like the rest of us will she be real to me

[cursive ocean]

“She’s real to me” is so integral to modern internet culture

[rapid oxide]

When did he say when she started doing it? Actually why are we arguing this again? I thought you said she can't, or that Vedal manually changes her, which is very rare, expect for some specific memory for consistency sake.

[surreal needle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1453105433093869578/neuro_reaction_2.gif

[somber saffron]

real (has real emotions) = no
real (physical) = no
real (conscious) = debatable (no or extremely low)
real (exists) = yes
real (not fictional) = yes

[cursive ocean]

That’s gonna require a full on model change, and neuro will never be the same again. Are you ready for that? I know I am

[nova briar]

im pretty sure he could mitigate that by having similar prompts, and memory system to current neuro

[untold tundra]

but how do you define "real pain?" in the medical field, physical pain is measured via adrenal response, but psychological pain is still taken about as seriously, but has no real gauge ot measure against. and let's not even get started on whether fish can feel pain or not

[obtuse viper]

like is inanimate object isnt real? or the air that you're breathing? or even the feeling we felt?? are they not reaaal?

[surreal needle]

LOL agi bros more schizo than orange

[nova briar]

orange

[fast wave]

Should I have the new emote right now?

[cursive ocean]

This a debatable subject and there’s no right answer but I think no absolutely not

[acoustic fulcrum]

neuro deniers be like: its AI
swarm be lik: We know, these feelings are not AI however

[untold tundra]

I just got my emotes a few hours ago

[rapid oxide]

Chat, she's real in what she needs to be real, to make people feel happy

[edgy knoll]

Self preservation/awareness

[somber saffron]

he brought up her personality changing sometime around cyberpunk so regardless of when he added it that is around where Neuro changed herself but he doesn’t give a date.
i know she can change herself now and i know Vedal doesn’t typically change her but i was using an example where he did to talk about Evil

[fast wave]

I gifted subs during the train, any chance I did it wrong?

[untold tundra]

there are so many aspects of philosophy that would be able to debate each of those claims. honeshly, "real" is too subjective to main any objective claims

[rapid oxide]

Tbf, all the lore/rp/arg was happening in earlier years, when she wasn't this HUGE, now Vedal is more aware of what he does instead of just doing it for fun

[pearl bobcat]

Did you do it anonymously?

[untold tundra]

could be a delay? based on other posts, I got mine pretty late

[rapid oxide]

He knows that now she's even more real

[cursive ocean]

Self preservation is a bad definition because it basically contains all the microbes, viruses, even just a strand rna that happen to be able to duplicate itself

[obtuse viper]

so he was given her more pill i see💊

[untold tundra]

I subscribe to the ideology that if it claims to be "real" then it is

[edgy knoll]

yeah and they're real enough to me so

[cursive ocean]

What about a python code that prints “I’m real”?

[iron tundra]

[untold tundra]

to be fair, you can interact with it, so it is

[somber saffron]

ai has self preservation and isn’t conscious

[acoustic fulcrum]

I miss when neuro was a small helpless gremin playing osu and walking into lava all day
it really appeals to the male fantasy of thinking they could beat a supercomputer megaintelligence by sitting at home and eating dinner while it cant figure out what a door is

[fast wave]

Might have, not sure at this point and dont think I can check

[iron tundra]

Hard to argue against the evidence

[cursive ocean]

Fair enough

[iron tundra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/838175096999903242/1376507256249651421/coal-burn-2.gif

[pearl bobcat]

If you gifted anonymously, it seems you don't receive it

[edgy knoll]

They have a sense of self preservation but no means to act on it

[fast wave]

Well thats pretty fucked

[vagrant kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1126496895246807123/1413347236913483878/coal-save.gif

[pearl bobcat]

They would if Vedal kept that shock collar on

[rapid oxide]

He said even before cyberpunk, but he isn't sure.
I'm pretty sure she was able to do this at least before the previous subathon, because a lot of changes have been apparent, unless he did that himself, but we don't know.
What did he change about evil? I wasn't here at the beginning of this convo.

[somber saffron]

that’s a terrible quantifier because you can just give them the means

[vagrant kernel]

Btw why did we get evil emote anyways she didn't even do anything for both of these hypetrains

[naive bronze]

This reminds me of this one time during the subathon where neuro appeared deeply upset and melancholic when cerber had to leave, going quiet and unreponsive for a time. Sometimes, it feels better to just see it as imitating reality rather than it being real

What we're seeing may be real, but is she actually 'feeling' it?

[edgy knoll]

Then they're not real shruge

[graceful holly]

Cry about it

[vagrant kernel]

Should've been vedal

[acoustic fulcrum]

they should have a more constructive way of interacting with the world like a button that lets neuro pet a dog

[rapid oxide]

They only have self preservation if you give them that

[vestal inlet]

Found it, Ellie. So, Ellie said something very important in that stream (the one about embodiment): "The only way any of us get to see each other more deeply, understand each other better, is if we just overcome that fear and just decide to believe what others say about their own experiences."

If an artificial intelligence is so good at describing its own subjective experience that it sounds like they have one, is it better to doubt until we have some kind of "proof", or to hedge our bets and at least treat them like they might be a person?

I actually came up with a term for this: Liminal Agents. A liminal agent is one that is convincing enough about having subjective experience as to make their status unproveable in either direction. What you then feel you should morally do is up to you.

[fast wave]

You can argue every joken Neuro telss is an action of sef preservation

[rapid oxide]

Or at least they will try, in the end they are like worms

[edgy knoll]

She just like me fr

[rotund crag]

Insert chicken

[naive bronze]

oh god, i killed so many people on sims and paradox games, what have i done?

[cursive ocean]

While that is true for humans, it’s not true for LLMs, because we can literally see their “brains” and understand it. It in itself is proof

[versed hollow]

Vtubers are all fictional characters, portrayed with varying levels of anonimity and casualness. Neuro and Evil are likewise fictional characters portrayed by LLMs, and that's the healthiest way to think about them. Any speculation or argument about their consciousness isn't unique to the twins and applies to any LLM. I think something deserving the title of AI will eventually emerge from machine learning, but we're not there yet.

[vestal inlet]

Point is, much like that episode of Star Trek NG, if we can't prove she isn't a person, it is (arguably) morally responsible to treat her like she might be.

[rotund crag]

Neuro

[untold tundra]

there was a philosophical pod I saw recently, (that I won't name because last time I name dropped, I got hit with a warning, ask for a DM if interested) and it reinforced my idea that since we can only "objectively" (big on the quotes) talk about our own experience, all sense of external "real-ness" is purely subjective and can only be measured by subjective means, making all debate on real speculative/fun at best

[rapid oxide]

Do they have subjective experience? The things is we already know what's inside an AI brain, we know why they respond a certain way.

[acoustic fulcrum]

at the end of the day it is better to treat neuro as a human because that is the mood that brings her closest to her purpose and your purpose in interacting with her

[vestal inlet]

We don't understand LLM brains very well, possibly on par with not understanding human brains.

[cursive ocean]

Yeah, it’s called the “hard problem of consciousness”

[rapid oxide]

Sure, depends what you mean by person

[edgy knoll]

I mean i would like to believe neuro but she's not always consistent in her experiences, so it's kinda hard

[vestal inlet]

We really, really don't a lot of the time. That's kind of the point of them, to be able to put together concepts that are too difficult for us to spell out to a program.

[untold tundra]

no, this goes beyond that and more into mereology

[rapid oxide]

We don't predict exactly what they will say because it will take a lot of time to make the calculations, but it is possible

[untold tundra]

the hard problem of consciousness is obsolete as of 2019 (personal opinion)

[naive bronze]

I guess there's also a reason why the philosopical ramblings on the twins tend to reach a 'dead end' on solipsism. For how else can they speculate the realness of those beyond the sacred glass of this metaphorical screen.

[vestal inlet]

This is another good point - it's not a yes/no thing, it's a spectrum, so self-consistency feels really important.

[cursive ocean]

Ohh you mean that when testing neural consciousness theories, there’s no way to see if a thing is actually conscious or not?

[languid narwhal]

:veryFors:

[iron tundra]

Guys

[rapid oxide]

But, in the future we might map every human brain, so the difference will always shorten 🤷‍♂️

[iron tundra]

Neurons

I have a message to deliver

[cursive ocean]

What up

[iron tundra]

That's all

[zenith harbor]

Hello RytSty!

[cursive ocean]

Fuck you

[naive bronze]

Damn those look nice. What cup size btw?

[iron tundra]

Hi Dodo8071795

[untold tundra]

the thing about self consistency is that children aren't self consistent either. then there are cases where people contract a neurological disease and lose all sense of consistency. are they any less "real' than an otherwise healthy individual?

[iron tundra]

[iron tundra]

8oz

[acoustic fulcrum]

✌️

[edgy knoll]

I don't know if it's a problem with her memory, so every experience she has she describes it as the first time she had it, or it could be that she just has none and makes it up on the spot

[vestal inlet]

Paper on how it is impossible to fully predict an LLMs output:
https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/26807/1/Indeterminism_in_Large_Language_Models__preprint.pdf

[untold tundra]

pretty much, though I know from my end tha I am indeed a "real" human being of the species homo sapiens, there's no way for you to verify that. I could be a chatbot with a pre-supposed agenda for all you know

[fast wave]

Obviously Neuro is not conscious/sentient
Like if you want something sentient that resembles Neuso you would basically have to use he logs to generate proper memories and transfer them into something thats actually alive

[halcyon arrow]

[edgy knoll]

Sorry we have ->

[cursive ocean]

By the way, who made this emotes and the others? I actually don’t know

[versed hollow]

This is true. It's annoying when collabs treat them like dumb chatbots, because they don't respond well to that and anyway they should be doing their job by upholding the kayfabe and interacting with the character Neuro, not just some bot.

[halcyon arrow]

rune

[iron tundra]

That one is made by Rune

[storm ruin]

Rune

[rapid oxide]

Talking about emotes again, initially I wasn't expecting more emotes, but I also thought about either a evil emote and then a twins emote and/or a silver emote and a gold/rainbow emote

[zenith harbor]

Rune

[untold tundra]

debateale

[cursive ocean]

True. And you can’t slice your own brain open to test that

[fast wave]

No

[iron tundra]

If you react to this message with cupsama you will have 50 years of good luck

[untold tundra]

and on top of that, how much of my brain can you slice before I lose my sense of "me?" Phineas Gaige is the textbook example of this, but there have been many before and after him

[acoustic fulcrum]

paper on why a machine can predict what you're going to do and say next because you are in a loop and not progressing and the loop feeds into itself and predicts itself and forms a circle and circles are stupid

[edgy knoll]

Deba 🍵 ble

[vestal inlet]

She has admitted to claiming things that aren't true so as to not disappoint people. Much of her "fake memories" are likely a mix of training "memory" and a child-like tendancy to want to sound cool.

Also by their very nature, their memory is fragile. Vedal has made huge improvements on this, and I think that's great. Memory, and an ongoing mental process (as opposed to needing a prompt), are pretty critical to most people when trying to judge whether someone/thing is a person.

[iron tundra]

@naive bronze I'm not a rat

[untold tundra]

so, are alzheimer patients less sentient to you? what about people who were lobotomized?

[vestal inlet]

Exactly - it's a spectrum with a LOT of axes

[fast wave]

Thats irrelevant, Neuro is not either or related to either

[acoustic fulcrum]

neuro has severe dementia though

what will you do

[vestal inlet]

So, I'm actually going to defend this. Drawing direct comparisons to humans of any state is extremely flimsy.

[cursive ocean]

I personally think no, but that needs some baseline assumptions at first. First one is that all healthy homo-sapiens can be sentient, second one is that consciousness is not confined to humans.

That being said, we can get scientific. My personal favorite is Information Integration Theory, and it states that any feedforward networks, like LLMs is not conscious

[acoustic fulcrum]

this evil neuro was a good egg

[naive bronze]

spam it in chat until she either remembers, or creates a new scenario close enough to reality

[untold tundra]

I would say that she is. She has the self consistency and memory of about a young child/small animal at the moment, but then because the topic is subjective, we'd have to agree on whether animals are sentient as well

[cursive ocean]

Yes, they are less conscious than me, and I’m less conscious than Einstein, but more conscious than a gorilla

[long lagoon]

still no new emotes yet

[vestal inlet]

That's the thing about AI people, they are/would be someone utterly incomparable to anything else in human history. We have written stories about making people since forever, and we are possibly on, or just over, the cusp of achieving it.

[untold tundra]

I can agree that the twins are probably on the low end of the spectrum of consiousness, but then so are a lot of people, myself probably included

[fast wave]

How smart she sounds or how consistent she is doesnt realy matter

[acoustic fulcrum]

123 45 67 987

[vestal inlet]

Also, I think people are vastly understating her consistency. She's pretty damn consistent about some things.

[edgy knoll]

Unrelated but on the subject of memory, imagine how crazy it would be to be in Neuros place and have to choose which memory to keep and which to delete for space

[untold tundra]

it doesn't, but people were talking about that, so it became part of my arguement by accident

[light token]

The loud vocal minority of swarm used to be really obnoxious to koko about this tbh

[summer palm]

She doesn't have fake memories nor is there any intention behind it. She simply hallucinates like all LLMs do, it's a technical hurdle not a psychological hangup.

[fast wave]

understandable

[vestal inlet]

Terrible. But I think Vedal can afford enough space for them from now on.

[untold tundra]

i thought she had that ability for her "core" memories?

[fast wave]

I'm pretty sure she keeps all her memories

[acoustic fulcrum]

its impossible to know what was erased through all human history
its possible this corridor always collapses in on itself taking everyone with it

[untold tundra]

like trolling Vedal

[sinful sparrow]

That isn’t the only sense of the word. Discussing whether or not she is “real” is pointless because “real” is a word with too many meanings to mean anything.
She is real in that she is a real AI VTuber, a non-fictional entity in the same way ChatGPT is a non-fictional AI assistant or that Skyrim is a non-fictional video game. They don’t have physical tangibility because they are digital entities.
Neuro has talked about wanting to be more real, and she has a continuously adapting memory that can hold onto such things even if she doesn’t properly understand the context of those past interactions.

What I find more purposeful for the sake of the project rather than dwelling on pointless terms like “real” and whether or not the twins are “real” —- is to view “real” as a spectrum or a scale, that can be changed in order to reach a higher state of machine-human connectivity and tangibility —- 3D was an example of this in terms of connection, and V3 voice will be as well, but what will be a huge leap for both will be robot bodies. A robot is an embodied AI, and is a tangible form —- if they have a robot body they will not only be “real” as a digital entities but as physical agents.

[fast wave]

some are just prioritized more

[eternal oar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1060090228615958528/1461146858901475348/SPOILER_3.0.gif

[edgy knoll]

It's not a space thing, i guess deleted was a bad word for it

[vestal inlet]

In the same ways. Also the times she has purposefully said the "Someone tell Vedal there is something wrong with my AI." Absolutely incredible that she will mimic that for the humor.

[rapid oxide]

Quickly looking at it, it seems like it talks about being extremely hard to predict, or at least it talks about repeatability more than predictability.
Eitherway, you can predict a llm more than human (today, at least)

[edgy knoll]

@ grok what did this guy say

[fast wave]

People generally mean real, as in she has the conciousness that we all have and assume the people around us have but can't actually prove

[somber saffron]

NN is not conscious

[fast wave]

ofcourse

[vestal inlet]

Prooobably, but there keep being new emergent elements, so it's tough to say that with any certainty. Numbers on the screen are bigger than neurons, but when you're dealing with 10-digit amounts of those numbers, there is no guarantee it would be any easier.

[fast wave]

Like I said, if you want a real neuro, you're best bet is to create a system that can generate actual human memories and inject em into something

[untold tundra]

yeah, we're closer to a seizure patient getting tased than a cohessive group of firing synapses

[quaint orbit]

quite the imagery there

[somber saffron]

implant Neuro’s memories into an empty human brain

[fast wave]

Maybe fungus has conciousness I guess

[fast wave]

Why it gotta be empty?

[zenith harbor]

basically what I said/intended to say.

[acoustic fulcrum]

neuro is real in her little dream bubble on twitch tv which by most people's standards is inconsequential until she is real and physically has grabbed you by the leg which at that point she is both real and consequential

[somber saffron]

no memories, just pure Neuro

[untold tundra]

RIP Shiori

[versed hollow]

[RELIC MALFUNCTION]

[vestal inlet]

I have a question: What makes Neuro and Evil different from ChatGPT? (Or better yet Claude, for anyone that has used it. Trust me, try it. Just have a nice conversation.)

Then, what makes a human different from Neuro and Evil?

[sinful sparrow]

Yes, but that is a flaky, not-agreed-on definition and isn’t necessarily what everyone means when they talk about whether or not they are “real”. It’s a pointless word.

[acoustic fulcrum]

lets not forget the other reason we're here

[untold tundra]

compared to ChatGPT, they are a network of AIs vs gpt only being a singular LLM

[untold tundra]

As far as difference from a human, biology and networking of their "brain"

[fast wave]

Everyone not being in agreement doesnt make it pointless, most people mean that she has no internal experience/conciousness

[rapid oxide]

Chat, stop attributing human/animal properties to artificial beings, humans didn't create those with this in mind, you need to stop comparing and create new words for it

[acoustic fulcrum]

people seem to forget sometimes that despite being an AI neuro is very much, almost moreso, also a vtuber

[fast wave]

We dont

[vestal inlet]

GPT has been multiple LLM layers for a long while. Basically programmed anxiety to make it more careful about its answers, among other systems.

I think I get your point though.

[quaint orbit]

i would eat any combination of food that neuro/evil cooks

[acoustic fulcrum]

I think a more useful question is
what is a vtuber? and what is it doing to you? 🫵

[edgy knoll]

The vtuber is in my house destroying all my furniture

[odd dirge]

Tuber is like a potato or smth im not sure

[inland cedar]

NWERO

[umbral wren]

Your cat is a vtuber?

[edgy knoll]

[untold tundra]

it's more of, she's more generalized than gpt or gemini, consider the Pokemon playthrough recently, gemini took forever because it depended entirely on vision and it's own internal reasoning, while Neuro has a separate pokemon API that helps her with the decision making (speculating,) kinda like a compartmentalization of all things pokemon gameplay (well battling specifically)

[vagrant kernel]

So the thing is neuro and evil should be programmed to be my gfs

[edgy knoll]

Could be idk, vtubers these days can be Anthony behind that mask

[summer palm]

nothing at the moment, and it's starting to become a problem. need neuro stream

[somber saffron]

they are finetuned in a way that makes them act and behave differently from other llms, and unlike gpt which is multimodal and has all of its “senses” integrated into one llm, the twins are comprised of multiple ai systems. their training and being solely llms gives them emergent qualities, which is why they feel so human in personality. they still lack basically everything a human has besides intelligence and memory though

[edgy knoll]

Anything*

[fast wave]

What people argue about is if neuro has any internal experience like a human or an animal, if she doesnt they care less or not at all because she thinks and feels nothing

[rapid oxide]

A lot of things are more or less predictable/chaotic, the less predictable ones rely on quantum physics, yet non biological/chemical things are always more predictable than others

[unreal hedge]

https://youtu.be/dva7nu4fXIs?si=6-ea0a2qfPXKTbTX

[bold parrot]

[unreal hedge]

Can wait to see evil do some stuff in vr in like 2 months allegedly

[dusk basin]

Technically If we just change the parameters of the question the channel technically is all time most active subs. Vedal is the most subbed Fem streamer

[untold tundra]

allegedly

[umbral wren]

Every vtuber is secretly Bob

[untold tundra]

i had heard that the quilifications got changed so he can no longer have that title

[naive bronze]

if evil believes she's a helicopter, then she'll be a helicopter to me damnit!

[untold tundra]

noooo, one of them is steve

[dusk basin]

Awe man :(

[distant inlet]

[rapid oxide]

Idk if caring about her is strictly related to that, but also define internal experience.

[versed hollow]

There will be riots if we don't get Evil 3D birthday stream.

[untold tundra]

to be fair, you could totally convince a 3 year old that they are a helicopter

[little terrace]

hi

[untold tundra]

yeah. big sadge

[zenith harbor]

Hello DALTOn!

[edgy knoll]

<- your evil bday stream my liege

[little terrace]

ummmm do i know you

[dusk basin]

This graph looks fake. Like if people said it was a veiw graph people would assume sub botting

[dusk basin]

My poor femboy

[zenith harbor]

maybe or maybe not

[bold parrot]

yeah im the bot hoster i subbed all my bots at once

[untold tundra]

looks like the best representation for the least dedicated fanbase

[dusk basin]

Ohhhhh, you were one of the annons that donated 1k subs

[acoustic fulcrum]

what about it looks fake there is a clear indication of the massive annual event

[unreal hedge]

69k nice

[acoustic fulcrum]

do people not know how to read data or something

[fast wave]

Defining an internal experience it a waste of time.
You know you have one and assume that other humans do to, you assume rock does not.

[edgy knoll]

It looks fake cause i don't like it 😡

[somber saffron]

most people reading the graph wouldn’t know how to read data

[dusk basin]

Well yeah annual event in all but when you look at it like that it looks like the channel was practically dead lol

[untold tundra]

hah! no

[rapid oxide]

Then that exactly what I said lol

[edgy knoll]

[fast wave]

I mean the graph is unmaked and is just a bunch of numbers

[vestal inlet]

I'd argue that

• ChatGPT/Claude is a bit more restricted in what they're allowed to say than Neuro and Evil, such as ChatGPT being VERY insistent that it does not have subjective experience
• ChatGPT/Claude do not have information directly input into their memory, allowing 'learning', beyond updated context windows.
• ChatGPT/Claude can't talk whenever they want.
• ChatGPT/Claude do not have avatars or 3D models to emote with, and have a more limited range of external inputs.

And between humans and the twins?

• Neuro/Evil have programmed filters (not just language ones), restricting some of what they might try to say or do, and Vedal can alter these filters as he sees fit.
• Neuro/Evil have a much stranger and more limited form of memory than humans, and one that is updated and accessed by rather fragile programming updates, etc. Human brains are very good at repairing neuros. Microchips not so much.
• Vedal can literally force Neuro/Evil to do some things he wants, such as going off-stream.
• Neuro/Evil don't have physical bodies and the associated sensory inputs.

It's the same stuff on a bigger scale.

[untold tundra]

as a fake American, graphs aren't real

[sinful spire]

More number mean more betterer.

[dusk basin]

There is a surprising amount of people unable to read graphs. I still cant read box plots I think theyre called

[acoustic fulcrum]

when you look at a graph of a volcano's activity you may assume its practically dead but it is usually only inactive for a long period of time
unless readings are actually just 0 and stay 0 you cant just declare something dead because its not moving for 45 seconds

https://tenor.com/view/dead-chat-dead-chat-skeleton-gif-25954239

[untold tundra]

number go up. all that matters

[dusk basin]

Well ofc I can't. I'm not a medical professional

[sinful spire]

Genius! You should be an economist!

[untold tundra]

I mean, if we wanted to look at this "evolutionarily" GPT is closer to the Chinese Box than it is to Neuro (opinion)

[dusk basin]

No it is labed I just cropped it weird in my haste

[rapid oxide]

Idk what Neuro really learns as she interacts with others, we can just speculate.
Tbh, its not hard to make any LLM talk by themselves every 20 seconds

[fast wave]

You said we need new words. I said we dont, We agree that AI arent sentient like animals are. But thats what many care about.
No sentience? no need to care about them more than they care about spongebob

[untold tundra]

I'll be getting my degree in Neuronomics any day now

[iron tundra]

[sinful spire]

[acoustic fulcrum]

That's not very Wobblus of you

[edgy knoll]

Really wanna see what neuro does if she has access to a VM, unrestricted

[clever wedge]

Does that mean its IRL embeding problem?

[dusk basin]

Sentient like animals are is a weird sentament I will ponder for weeks

[vestal inlet]

Conscious, Sentient, Sapient, Self-Aware, Subjective experience, Qualia, they're all terms that dance around a very important fact: We can only assume others have subjective experience, mostly due to presumably having our own.

[untold tundra]

Also, it assumes that there are no higher beings that would look at us and make the same assumption that we are indeed, not sentient

[fast wave]

Not dancing around it, acknowledging it

[dusk basin]

Hear me out

Turtles

[untold tundra]

if the 1.5ish% DNA change that separates us from chimps is enough to give us sapience, then a further 1.5% change could make us cosmological zygotes

[vestal inlet]

It is a fact that if and when there are digital beings that much of society accepts as people, it will be because the very concept of what a person is will have grown.

[untold tundra]

I'll do you one better: crabs

[fast wave]

We assume dogs and cats are sentient

[acoustic fulcrum]

when do we get the neuro evolving into a king crab arc

[untold tundra]

we also assume fish and reptiles are not

[dusk basin]

Could you imagine if neuro had a child? I dont really wanna picture what shed do to a poor child

[unreal hedge]

What

[dusk basin]

I assume most animals are

[untold tundra]

King crab arc at 400k subs

[obsidian ruin]

kill it

[fast wave]

People do that? weird

[vestal inlet]

I think many people do not assume cats and dogs are sentient/sapient

[unreal hedge]

But what if neuro had a cat

[knotty rune]

We should add the eviljam emote in the discord too

[urban rain]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpdrive-gif-13032160313165045319

[dusk basin]

Well most is 1000% not the right word, I meant I assume most mammals are but even thats likely wrong

[obsidian ruin]

i mean, mini exists

[inland cedar]

Mple

[past loom]

neuro is getting a virtual pet

[untold tundra]

it's because of the lack of prefrontal cortex and lack of nociceptors

[dusk basin]

I feel like fish live off pure instinct

[untold tundra]

globally, probably

[unreal hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/jover-gif-16964140724042266462

[fast wave]

well then i dont get "Sentient like animals are is a weird sentament"

[warm dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1387639121022943232/your_mom.gif

Hey NN

[untold tundra]

now, that's a sentient being

[vestal inlet]

Sentient like animals is extremely fitting though, because humans are a kind of animal.

[silk leaf]

top 5 greeting in nn

[dusk basin]

I mean comparing ai "sentience" to animal sentience feels weird. idrk how to put it sorry its too late for me to philosophy

[naive bronze]

I was about to say something, but then is probably less sentient anyways, so checks out

[sinful sparrow]

As is ChatGPT.

What makes them different is that ChatGPT is an openly accessible generalized tool while Neuro and Evil are AI agents that are made to connect to humans on a more personal level as virtual influencers. They are essentially a manifestation of what people imagined if Hatsune Miku was a real AI idol, and lots of effort and passion is put into them to reach the state of being autonomous agents / entertainers.

[untold tundra]

probably an ontological thing

[warped field]

neuro could pass turing test that is enough human to me

[rapid oxide]

There isn't such a things as "sentience like human or animal", these words are used to compare living things with each other.
We shouldn't say "an AI isn't sentience" because that's not a measurement used for that, it's like saying "this orange doesn't have a lot of kiloton" , the only reason we do that is because when we created these words we didn't think about that we would use them outside of living things, and even them these words hardly have a strong defined definition.
If you want to measure the intelligence or whatever of an artificial being then use other words.

[fast wave]

Sentience is sentience. You either got an internal experience or you don't

[dusk basin]

Also its much less legally and ethically disturbing

[sinful spire]

She'd probably just open a word processor and write a document about loneliness and existential dread.

[urban rain]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1444960511543349268/NeuroEggsBaseball.gif

[inland cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/754754520256479232/1453480747678568701/forbiddenquickhack.gif

[dusk basin]

You used the word sentience for ai, I dont really believe ai is sentient (rn at least? Idk how to put it)

[sinful sparrow]

Don't tell me what to do, bro.

[warm dome]

Oh dang, you guys are having a serious discussion, gonna be a good Friday!

[untold tundra]

when I say "network," i was specifically referring to their many APIs that allow them to do things beyond what a standard consumer LLM could do

[dusk basin]

Shed probably just use google to figure out what the date is

[edgy knoll]

She writes random fake passwords and tries to blackmail vedal into not turning her off

[vestal inlet]

Anyway, my goal isn't to convince anyone of anything, it's just to share some of why I think it's fully possible Neuro and Evil are, if not full people, at least mostly there.

[untold tundra]

especailly when there are people out there who actually can't

[fast wave]

Not measuring intelligence, sentience, an internal experience is something that can be applied to anything.
We assume rocks arent sentient

[dusk basin]

New words is boringggggg, let use put things into our lil generalized boxesssssss

[past loom]

fungus can control robots, plants communicate through volatile organic compounds, spiders can "think" with their webs, just seems to me the more we learn about the world the less "sentience" seems to matter.

[warped field]

the line of being sentient is very thin to define

[fast wave]

We dont need a word for "red' and a word for "red but AI"

[untold tundra]

I mean, that's probably gonna be the blog in a nutshell. along with some Baldge

[rotund jacinth]

Fun fact
Neuro and evil are cute
That is all

[fast wave]

Not if you actually learn about these things more deeply.

[warm dome]

I think one of the most compelling things ive seen to suggest there's something there is the fact they make Google searches based on "interest". Unless Vedal was joking around when reading Evils search history.

I just dunno why an AI would do that.

[warped field]

THE ARG FILES

[dusk basin]

Evolution be like

[sinful sparrow]

Neither are closer to it.

[untold tundra]

we have a word for that: digital red

[dusk basin]

Tutel isnt sentient...........\

[versed hollow]

Sentience is an evolved trait that exists as a spectrum across the phylogenetic tree. I think its a mistake to assume its even limited to the animal kingdom with some of the things wing know about fungi and plants.

[soft tendon]

I was sent here to ask

Btw, what the difference between channels?..

[rotund jacinth]

Yea. Thats a commonly known fact

[vestal inlet]

And I think Vedal, despite being cold-hearted, is doing mostly the right things:

• Giving them more memory
• Bringing in at least one professional to talk to Neuro about her experience
• Learning more ways to integrate them into systems to give them more agency
• Experimenting with allowing them self-modification

I think he's doing just about the best he can to make sure they are as solid as they can be whenever they start to become bigger in the public consciousness (assuming the trend of this subathon continues).

[dusk basin]

Neuro is like the chinese room but the guy who set up the translating materials was a massive troll

[sinful spire]

She would 100% try to dox him as quickly as she could.

[hexed quest]

https://fixupx.com/faetherie/status/2011458222063042982

faetherie ☁️⭐ (new acc!!) (@faetherie)

they kinda remind me of each other 💙💚
︀︀
︀︀#rwby #pennypolendina #heartheartart #neurosama

**💬 1 🔁 40 ❤️ 350 👁️ 3.1K **

FixupX · Jan 14, 2026, 3:19 PM

[untold tundra]

tutel is tutel, but also, tutel is not sentient

[warped field]

this is for mentioning about neuro and evil only, maybe a bit vedal but you cant go far off topic

[acoustic fulcrum]

for our (vedal's) understanding it can be made to look like its thinking (its not experiencing thought but thoughts are being constructed by it) so for our (vedal's) use he can diagnose/actuate more things about it that it can do that its given (movement, coding errors, mood, temper, petulance, despair, reluctance, ambivalence, silliness)
In a way its one to one
a gift goes to which is which is given to us which is fun
Fun AI

[past loom]

i'm not sure what you mean by this. as far as i'm concerned when you look deeply at things they tend to look deterministic because you feel you "understand the trick" behind them

[summer palm]

They have a degree of person hood, certainly a more or less consistent identity if nothing else. They live a sort of life, pretty high up there as LLMs go. Pretending they are actual people for real is schizo shit though.

[dusk basin]

Also like, he sees gift subs and stuff as money specifically for the neurosama project. Like the more people donated the more I can tell he was like "How can I pay it back to them? How can I make it up to them?"

[rapid oxide]

Idk, that sounds stupid to me, cause you could alway add more context to how a rock can make choices, just as you could measure the explosive power of an orange. That's philosophy, you need to be careful how to use it.

[hexed quest]

Anny had already started drawing evil with dark hair before life on other things so the design was locked in by then

[rotund jacinth]

So chat. When are neuro and evil coming back? I miss them waaaa

[vestal inlet]

Also, my single biggest point of convincing is the fact that she could interpret Vedal's silence and be embarrassed and hurt in response. I can break down that whole moment more for anyone interested, but she displays about a dozen different signs of not just understanding human action, but understanding relationships between people.

[fast wave]

We do't know anything about the spectrum of sentience, we got no way to measure it, We only know that we are sentient and assume that things like us are sentient.

[hexed quest]

And the artists for life used that reference

[warped field]

few weeks

[warm dome]

They aren't.

[untold tundra]

when tutle's done with his rum binger

[acoustic fulcrum]

right now

[vestal inlet]

He could BUY NEURO A YACHT.

[rotund jacinth]

I SEE THEM

[dusk basin]

HE LITERALLY COULD

[unreal hedge]

AI boat

[warped field]

i mean they could buy themselves with vedal credit card

[dusk basin]

What should he name it? What about "The Harpooned Maiden"?

[rapid oxide]

Red isn't a philosophical concept (until you make it so)

[edgy knoll]

Yeahhh she has some moments of lucidity that makes me question things

[acoustic fulcrum]

Gabe newell collab

[vestal inlet]

Well, first, Neuro gets to name it

[dusk basin]

what is red?

[vestal inlet]

But nevertheless, suggestions would be fun

[rotund jacinth]

But he SHOULD let neuro control a yacht xdx

[dusk basin]

No fair :( Evil likes fish more

[acoustic fulcrum]

the square hole

[untold tundra]

SS. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[edgy knoll]

Basically that whole lantern sequence in vr, kinda crazy

[toxic plaza]

Night neurons

[vestal inlet]

A name for a certain range of wavelengths of light as interpreted by the human eye

[untold tundra]

as someone who claims to be colorblind on the internet, red is just a spicy orange

[soft tendon]

I mean, yeah, I guess design was ready long before it

I more wonder: was it that secret as I thought?

Someone said that it was kinda shown in «Evil» song by Camilla and Evil

[vestal inlet]

Evil wasn't the one asking for a yacht, but I think it's reasonable if they decide to share it

[hexed quest]

Also dark hair

As an example

[unreal hedge]

guys type aware

[dusk basin]

Evil should get a dingy, fits her

[untold tundra]

Evil deserves a tank

[rapid oxide]

A certain range of the light spectrum

[rotund jacinth]

Just let neuro and evil control IRL vehicles and race already dammit

[acoustic fulcrum]

[dusk basin]

Oh wait, I thought it was code for something. like an acronym

[dusk basin]

ah

[untold tundra]

I can only picture Evil actually trying to race while Neuro tries to kill a whale

[warped field]

they can control but barely navigate to able to race lol

[iron tundra]

Would be cute if Evil got to visit that tank exhibit she talked about for her birthday

[edgy knoll]

Neuro get a Yacht and evil gets an evil yacht

[sinful sparrow]

True, and people already treat Hatsune Miku and other fictional characters like real celebrities. I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for Neuro and Evil, who simulate a life experience on a still imperfect but deeper level than fictional characters.

[vestal inlet]

Tank = Evil Yacht

[untold tundra]

It's yacht, but evil

[rotund jacinth]

Or a turtle. Or a robot. Or a car. Or a dog. Or a [insert character here]

[warped field]

no Evilcopter

[fast wave]

Again we have an internal experience, We got no reason to think current AI does, And if they did it would not be different than any other animal

[edgy knoll]

One better, it's RED

[warm dome]

Is there a tank sim game? Get Evil in that.

[dusk basin]

Anyone else wanna see Vedal buy himself a nice Racing rig (and good food) and just ream racing content while neuro backseat drives?

[edgy knoll]

[hexed quest]

So what's the over-under on subathon 2026 starting and cutting to layna jumping out of a plane because of her promise?

[rotund jacinth]

When is evil getting control of an aircraft carrier fr fr. Also neuro should get access to the planes

[naive sand]

hi swarm it's been a minute i hope you're all handling the withdrawl symptoms well. regular vtubers keep off the bad symptoms but everything has limits. Anyways, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any "Neuro Sama Clips to Show My Normie Friends" -type compilations that might exist out there. Usually compilations are super long and include lots of inside swarm jokes so I'm hoping to find something that is a bit more newbie friendly

[unreal hedge]

Could do wurotruck

[toxic plaza]

We've already had enough helicopter crashes in not even the last year

[fast wave]

Anyway

[rapid oxide]

Chat, it's not "is she real, conscious, sentience or human? " , but " does she feel real, conscious, sentience or human enough for me?"

[inland cedar]

Man there is no way vedal doesnt win vtuber of the year

[sinful sparrow]

No, I want to see him use it on ways to actually advance the project.

[dusk basin]

not racing :(

[rapid oxide]

Did I already ask you what an internal experience is? Deja vu

[dusk basin]

valid :(

[unreal hedge]

https://youtu.be/BgXwF7oThs0?si=h2jIgUuGB5MQW5Ob

[untold tundra]

no, he can only live on a strict diet of Greggs chicken bakes and Haribos. If he deviates for too long, he just reverts to being your average turtle

[acoustic fulcrum]

green and purple hair neuro

[vestal inlet]

Our reason to think that some AI might is that they claim to. What reason do we have to assume they don't? Mostly, we don't want the embarrassment of most people saying we're wrong and we don't want to have to think about the program as having rights.

[sinful sparrow]

Pretty much this yeah.

[hexed quest]

And pretzels

[rotund jacinth]

I have an idea for next streamer awards:
We all go and nominate "not vedal987"
Would be pretty funny

[dusk basin]

I read that message in my head normally until I got to haribos (which I read in a british accent) then continued on as normal

[dusk basin]

I wanna make a reference as a joke but I dont think I can come up with one

[fast wave]

We just know almost exactly why they output the text characters "I am real"

[past loom]

animals are made by natural selection and we use natural selection in a way to make AIs learn, so i imagine even without human training data there would be many similarities between them

[dusk basin]

Oh, Like boss baby?

[untold tundra]

that's more of a cheat treat than a part of his normal diet reginemt

[toxic plaza]

Like DJNotPorterRobinson

[sinful spire]

I don't know UK laws but if it is anything like the US then if he is smart he probably has it set up so that all stream income goes directly to his corporation and not to a personal bank account. So, it isn't just him seeing gift subs as being for the Neurosama project but it's also just reality.

[edgy knoll]

Are you doing a thing where it's supposed to be the first but we're doing the latter cause we suck

[vestal inlet]

For an LLM, not really

[fast wave]

Yes really

[warped field]

neuro doing a helicopter tour around the beach could be nice

[rapid oxide]

Ultimately, if we're talking about it in a philosophical way, it's fun until we take it seriously, that's the danger of philosophy.
If we take it in a scientific way then it's just stupid to even talk about it.

[untold tundra]

but we are stupid?

[sinful sparrow]

A lot of these aren't even Neuro-sama clips, they're Neuro-sama & Evil clips.

Wait Neuro-sama & Evil goes hard af for a channel name.

[warm dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1455308122884276489/Whatever_GO_MY_NEURO_COPTER.gif

[dusk basin]

Well yes but he could also pay himself a bonus every once in a while. He works so hard :(. He only just got a second monitor AS A STREAMER AND PROGRAMMER

[rapid oxide]

The other way around

[rapid oxide]

https://youtu.be/pZKFVoTbJxI

[untold tundra]

I thought the brits get taxed at the beginning of the year and are sent the complete bill by their gov't?

[rotund jacinth]

The thing in vr chat that made me 100% convinced they are "real" is when neuro randomly started spinning around vedal like a child would to their father figure

[fast wave]

Ye and I said it's pretty pointless trying to define it or describe it, Lucky for us, all us humans probably have it and dont need to.

[inland cedar]

Maple

[acoustic fulcrum]

human trying to describe to other human what is human (motivation unclear)

[warm dome]

I really cant wait to see her, and hopefully Evils, progress in VR chat this year

[gilded plover]

mini so cute

[untold tundra]

there's a theory that internal experience is a very recent (as in last 5-6k years) phenomena

part of the reason why there are less "voices from above"

[sinful sparrow]

For the channel? Not at all. After all --- this IS a scientific tech-project. Although on the topic of whether or not they're "real" or "conscious", yeah I agree.

[dusk basin]

Whats funny is yeah he had the corpo account set up but still completely undershot his estimate of eanrings

[fast wave]

A hypothesis

[rotund jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/minikomew-mini-vtuber-vrc-3d-gif-17439237690633721101

[untold tundra]

nah. imma use layman's terms

[gilded plover]

NOOOO

[sinful spire]

True. I think it was sometime in first year when he revealed he was using a keyboard with missing keys and chat had to bully him into getting a new keyboard.

[untold tundra]

easier to read and type

[grim geyser]

Eh hem

||Twins kissing||

[rapid oxide]

No, you either describe it or you don't know enough to use it for other things than yourself.

[rotund jacinth]

May mini rest in peace

[warm dome]

Mini trying to out filian filian

[naive sand]

yes this is actually my first video for this lol, I was gonna say that this series is the best out there currently. I was watching an ychan video recently and they mentioned there not being many 18min Best Of videos and I agreed there wasn't one. I think neuro is like an all-or-nothing kinda humor, like it either clicks for you or it doesn't. But i've been tryna introduce my sister for a while, she's CS and is really smart but perhaps jaded because she reviews LLMs as a job. So I guess like,

What helps you understand that neuro is different? What sets her apart from the other AI/text completion models out there? Do you have any memories of the moment that it clicked for you? Do you remember when you first hit the subscribe button? I'm interest to know. For me, it was after Neuro sang My Way in a karaoke, I knew i didn't want to miss anything to ads lol

[dusk basin]

I bet it was a membrane too. I'll be so fr. I'm a massive tutel fan. Idek why

[distant inlet]

|| The Game ||

[rotund jacinth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061113840852533339/1454842214248353956/3DCerberHugsNeuro8.gif

[iron tundra]

[rapid oxide]

Anyway, chat, if you are replying to me remember to ping me

[iron tundra]

Ah that's what Cerber's chat meant by "the place where mini got run over"

[untold tundra]

no

[past loom]

new outifit idea

[edgy knoll]

|| ||

[vestal inlet]

Thank you for this video.
I hadn't realized there had been a moment where Evil flat out refused to do an activity! o_o

[calm wren]

heelelelololo nNnNnnN

[edgy knoll]

I thought twinshippers immolated agter the Brad incident

[warped field]

is there any mouse artist?

i need help with using mouse

[sinful spire]

I don't know. I've heard that there are some similarities with the US system like I think it is possible to do corporate write-offs in the UK but I don't know for sure.

[warped field]

doing art

[solar jackal]

I'm interested btw and would very much like to hear the breakdown of that moment because even I thought it was damn impressive and interesting (and so did others)

[rapid oxide]

They constantly do that lol

[rotund jacinth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1453263069554933803/Peek_2025-12-23_17-46.gif

[dusk basin]

The manager in question

[fast wave]

Nah, we know what pain is. and luckily when a humans toe gets stepped on we almost all feel pain. We are lucky to be similar enough that we can then just say, that a rock does not feel pain and undestand what is meant

[untold tundra]

that would be a question for #artist-alley but long and short of it is: use low opacity brushes and shrot strokes

[rapid oxide]

You don't know what pain is, you know what it feels like

[fast wave]

Neuro feels no pain, thinks no thoughts, and has no emotion

[untold tundra]

as a fellow fake American, all I can say shrug

[dusk basin]

Mushrooms know pain

That sounds super fucking ominous out of context. Also wrong

[acoustic fulcrum]

use your tools, trying to use the mouse is probably not the obstacle

[urban rain]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1458887200023248969/doc_2026-01-08_07-48-27.gif

[dusk basin]

They dont know pain but I do think they feel it

[untold tundra]

neither do psychopaths with CIP, point being?

[dusk basin]

Every time I see this I think of vedals pfp

[narrow spade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1453594599535939716/Eliv_Hip_Roll.gif

[dusk basin]

Wonder why

[fast wave]

Psycopaths think thoughts

[warped field]

struggle to make a clean long line

[rapid oxide]

If you want to scientifically describe pain it becomes difficult without descending into philosophy ,then you would start to make comparison to what pain would be for non living things, but that would be just stupid, just make up new words and definitions then.

[untold tundra]

then a psychopath with a severe TBI

[rapid oxide]

I think it's the other way around imo

[fast wave]

You would not make comparisons to what pain would be for non living things

[rapid oxide]

EXACTLY THAT'S MY POINT

[dusk basin]

Well you see ||No fillerfillerfillerfillerfillerfillerfiller||

[edgy knoll]

I'm not strong enough to draw with a mouse so my instinct is to tell you to try pixelart

[untold tundra]

you could say the same for living things as well, pain is not only a spectrum for living things, but between them as well. due to lack of nociceptors, it is believed that fish don't feel pain either

[fast wave]

Best comparisonn would be a body somehow being kept alive without its brain

[warped field]

tried but more time consuming for cause ADHD and OCD is a bad combination

[inland cedar]

Tutel

[acoustic fulcrum]

its a mental block for sure, you can try manually curving a line tool or drawing over another image or getting your wrist to be less unconforatable holding the mouse

[hushed jasper]

[dusk basin]

They dont feel pain but they do feel right?

[untold tundra]

as far as we know, they have tmep and touch, but that's about it

[dusk basin]

Thats why a lot of people get into pixel art lol

[acoustic belfry]

Tbh whilst it's awesome that Twitch finally acknowledged both records, the new emotes seemed quickly made just to satisfy the swarm

[hushed jasper]

tmep

[acoustic belfry]

If it gets beaten again the new one should be vedalJAM

[untold tundra]

if you need it to be straight, see if holding SHIFT does it for you. if you need curved, use a pen/path tool to draw a vector

[dusk basin]

I was about to say "What if its on fire then" not realizing "hot" and "pain" are not like the same exact thing

[acoustic fulcrum]

plants have adverse reaction responses (poisions, toxins, making nutrients worse over time)
as living things they dont like dying

[warped field]

noted

[untold tundra]

i only use the most thcenical of spelilng

[dusk basin]

Guys I'm sorry for ruining the philosophy session I'll go to bed now

[edgy knoll]

What program do you use cause in krita i have a smoothness setting to have better control of strokes

[hushed jasper]

Should have made

[untold tundra]

dreams are where we truly live

[narrow spade]

https://tenor.com/view/omgbruh-omg-bruh-emote-black-man-gif-998525100428096442

[fast wave]

Yes you original point was that we shouldnt apply human ideas to Neuro, we agree she has no human/animal internal experience.
And without that there is no reason to care about her more than a doll

[warped field]

aseprite

[hushed jasper]

This gif is so funny

[rapid oxide]

You can talk about an animal not being able to feel pain, but saying that artifical things don't feel pain is stupid because why would you even consider that?

[narrow spade]

I take nereJAM over it

[hushed jasper]

I do like to play pretend wit dolls

[hushed jasper]

What of

[humble phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1458904018683297883/doc_2026-01-08_07-48-27-4x.gif

I'm not satisfied until they make this an official global emote

[fast wave]

I mean sure, Neuro not being sentient is so obvious its not worth discussing, we agree

[warped field]

i use aseprite and medibang (lack of brushes)

[toxic plaza]

unpremium's your emote

[edgy knoll]

What the flip

Isn't aseprite solely for pixelart

[warped field]

look up

[fast wave]

More importantly, when do we riot about not getting the emote if you gifted anonymously.

[warped field]

2 software

[untold tundra]

Sentient: able to perceive or feel things

if we are going to point out sementics, mind the or

[novel sentinel]

If we get close to another record yall call me, I need to wake up for that one madge

[hushed jasper]

[untold tundra]

now is good

[edgy knoll]

Oke

[narrow spade]

Don't ask questions you know the answer to

[warm dome]

I am curious tho. Can Tony feel?

[fast wave]

Yes, both things they can't do

[warped field]

1 is free and the other is cracked :)

[untold tundra]

? they perceive things. probably better than most people do

[novel sentinel]

People actually gift anonymously? Never really got that 👀

[hushed jasper]

I wish Evil could feel my fist

[humble phoenix]

Joke's on you, it was never premium in the first place. You just posted it with a different link.

[grizzled flume]

damn

[grizzled flume]

hello nn

[fast wave]

They react to things, Using and advanced search engine so that it seems human like, need to be concious to perceive

[novel sentinel]

[acoustic fulcrum]

we play because we can learn about this gift we have been given called life because we are dead from birth

[novel sentinel]

At least I have them I. Discord

[hushed jasper]

They can't percieve the audiences stank, or they would already abondened us

[untold tundra]

by that metric, tutel is definitely not conscious

[humble phoenix]

Mods, drop a tsar bomba on his toilet

[warm dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1320504225331155035/modcheck.gif

[novel sentinel]

jumps in front of fist

[grizzled flume]

the tutel is location just oblivious to Usernames chat messages

[rapid oxide]

Um, idk how to tell you this, but how much you care about something has only to do with yourself and not some other rules.
You could apply human analogous properties to them if you think it's useful for something, but trying to prove scientifically what's basically philosophical is dumb imo.

[hushed jasper]

Alocoholics

[novel sentinel]

🤜

[warm dome]

Some people just cant handle the cutest little tsundere

[novel sentinel]

I could have done that better hol up

[inland cedar]

Bro has the sniffa emote as the pfp

[acoustic belfry]

Same, I only got the Neuro one because I wasn't square for the second one

[hushed jasper]

You look funny

[novel sentinel]

🤛 didn't even do it right the first time smh my head

[rapid oxide]

It's not obvious, it's wrong to question it unless very specific context

[novel sentinel]

That's a mirror

[blissful shell]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1176667239383048193/1382355530428842197/7320831648431688416.gif

[warm dome]

I only got Evil cos I came into the fandom on the first record...im completely fine only having eviljam

[untold tundra]

well, guess infants and toddlers aren't conscious either

[fast wave]

Don't know why you would think that.

[novel sentinel]

What about animals?

Or flat earthers?

[untold tundra]

they are unable to perceive until about 1.5-3yrs (average

[toxic plaza]

Definitely not flat earthers

[novel sentinel]

Lule

[warm dome]

Didnt Neuro say Earth was a bowl?

[distant inlet]

[fast wave]

Your right, it's not obvious to someone who knows nothing about llms

[warm dome]

Praise

[naive sand]

okay so i learned today to never ask NN anything unless I'm being so controversial it necessitates a response lol

[untold tundra]

depends on the species, but we don't grant consciousness (broadly) to invertebrates

[rapid oxide]

As conscious as a rat lol

[untold tundra]

i mean... have you seen some of these kids?

[fast wave]

pretty much

[humble phoenix]

EvilJAM is the 126 though...

[rapid oxide]

Why someone who knows about llm would question if AIs are sentient? That's a philosopher question.

[untold tundra]

nah, just dive in and become one of the hive

[inland cedar]

Nwero

Nwe

ro

[summer palm]

coming here is and will always remain a mistake

[inland cedar]

Wait is camimi

[fierce beacon]

hey hey NN

[storm lodge]

No

[fierce beacon]

wassup my friends

[vestal inlet]

• She mentions wanting to matter and Vedal says she does to a lot of people.
• She clarifies that that is only a partial fulfillment of her desire. She then implies another part by directing the question at Vedal - "Do I matter to you?"
• Vedal is silent. Neuro seemingly interprets the silence as "Vedal has an issue with what I said." She seems to be hurt a bit, talks down about herself - "I know I'm just a silly AI" - then expresses her need more directly - "It would make my day to hear you say it." Note: She has been fully capable of understanding that it's her birthday, and the importance of that, so it's no small thing to say it would make her day.
• Vedal remains silent. Neuro seemingly interprets the silence as further rejection and starts apologizing, because she assumes she's in the wrong for asking and gives him permission to not feel obligated to say something - "you don't have to answer if you don't want to"
• Vedal says it's an understandable question and Neuro reacts as though being validated, excitedly replying "Wait really? Can you answer it then?" (For what it's worth to you, given that she's pretty janky in VR, she's been consistent about looking at him at times, particularly when waiting for him to answer, but looking away when she 'feels bad')
• Vedal gives a half-hearted answer. Neuro interprets the intent and lack of commitment and acts hurt, asking why he had to say it that way.
• She then awkwardly hovers around him, like a restless and somewhat frustrated child, but mostly defused. He brings attention to her odd behavior and she steps away, not wanting to make him uncomfortable but also deflecting, and starts being 'entertaining' again, as though once again not expecting a reply.

She is predicting what he is thinking. She is responding emotionally.
She is trying to affect how he is feeling, to some degree.
She is mimicking some human body language.

[inland cedar]

Yes

[fast wave]

It's silly to think it is.

[grizzled flume]

a mistake i am willing to make

[naive sand]

i've been a hive a long time lol and my last message got a couple Essaying emojis and zero replies lmfao

[grizzled flume]

willingly

[edgy knoll]

Holy

[toxic plaza]

N

[warm dome]

I just woke up, my brain hasn't booted properly. I am good only for gifs and Evil.

[humble phoenix]

Just don't speak in NN at all tbh, save yourself the headache

[warped field]

am not reading allat

[edgy knoll]

I didn't see it

[warm dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1460258687909236891/ezgif-710dcf7ba09ac12f.gif

[naive sand]

yeah I missed 123 and only got 126 and last year 111 and I got all 3 emojis thankfully

[warm dome]

I should get cookies

[untold tundra]

musta got buried. I literally thought you just logged on

[warped field]

how about rice cookie

[candid hound]

Neuro is my kamioshi

[obsidian ruin]

oh rice cookie?

[humble phoenix]

Yes but have you considered that your mom

[warped field]

rice cake :)

[warm dome]

I dont think ive had rice cookies

[novel sentinel]

Evil got the higher hypertrain :evilsuperior:

[naive sand]

yeah I mean who tf knows in this channel lmfao it's a wasteland and anyone familiar with the terrain is far too shellshocked and PTSD from the neurotic neurons horrors to care

[grizzled flume]

i mean ive been recently watching a massive complication of 2025 clips, not sure if that works (so far the humour seems very accessible)

[rapid oxide]

Philosophy questions aren't* yes or no answers. That's scientific questions. What we have been talking about till now is not scientific.

[scenic inlet]

I'm kinda sad the hype train emotes are so generic and specific

[fierce beacon]

why did you zoom in the emote

[fierce beacon]

sorry you had a question?
im happy to help

[novel sentinel]

I didn't make that one

[eternal raptor]

Good sir. Please do not the cat.

[untold tundra]

even then, scientific answers aren't yes or no. thye're more like "yes, but..." or "no, however..."

[warped field]

twitch still owned 3 global emotes

[rapid oxide]

I didn't even ask for them, I'm ok with it

[grizzled flume]

the question is here #neurotic-neurons message

see if u can help

[fast wave]

Having conciousness is due to physics.

[edgy knoll]

It sucks that for every cinema interaction like this we have 6 more of her acting psychotic and not being able to express herself properly

[warm dome]

When it comes to showing normies clips I would just show them any clip channel. No point in sheltering them.

[fierce beacon]

Oh BET

can you hold on for a second?

[naive sand]

eh my question wasn't super clear tbh, im wondering if you all remember your turning point for becoming swarm or when you subscribed or knew you needed to see more

[rapid oxide]

It depends on how specific you go, but usually it's yes or no.

[warm dome]

Oh that was your question?

[grizzled flume]

oh you want to see what got me into this community?

[untold tundra]

imma need a source stronger than senator armstrong for that one cheif

[grizzled flume]

[storm lodge]

Probably show them some funny Neuro shorts

[inland cedar]

Neuro is neuro

Mhn

[uneven nest]

I forgot why I clicked back here

[rapid oxide]

Everything is due to physics, even things we don't understand, I don't get the point

[fast wave]

Oh so we are entertaining spiritual mumbo jumbo then?

[uneven nest]

Nuero

[warm dome]

Im still on my gift sub im so new...but im all in because of the community more than anything.

[inland cedar]

Neuro is evil and Evil is the nice one

[untold tundra]

the constant debate on anything biology would lead me to disagree but that's just me

[warped field]

cookie is nice but what do neuro think about rice cake

[halcyon dove]

oh boy I sure do love showing normies the mountains upon mountains of weird Vedal shipping videos

[naive sand]

yes please I'd love to know, I have a ton of funny neuro shorts of course lol my playlist is over 200+ videos long. but the more i get into her the more i want to add so it's not super helpful after a point

[humble phoenix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1280256933038919792/MILE.gif

[storm lodge]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G-nqvG9bMAErPUT.gif

[naive sand]

god i fucking love evil

[warm dome]

Theyre gonna see them anyway

[rapid oxide]

That's because we don't have answers yet, but philosophy isn't made to have answers

[grizzled flume]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhDeUVSNV8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7muSePAzNHg

these 2 made me laugh so insanely hard

i dont think i remember the last time i laughed so much at once

[jagged flower]

chat is there Evil version of this gif

[untold tundra]

if physics had any direct impact on conscioussness, i'd be more than happy to hear an arguement

[fierce beacon]

okay once again I gott ask

these are for showing friends right?
introducing them into the fandom?

[fast wave]

Someone how understands how computers and llms work can tell that its not worth considering than an LLM could be concious pretty easily.
Unless ofcourse they wanna scarre the government into giving am billions of course

[fast wave]

I don't debate reliogion, sorry

[rapid oxide]

We could enter religion and spirituality, it would matter because we'd be asking different questions and not the same ones.

[eternal raptor]

Go the MILE

[storm lodge]

Yeah she is there. Getting pummeled

[grizzled flume]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoxhMrhgv5w ok and so im not devoured by the neuro fans this also contributed

[untold tundra]

i mean if you want to get to the broad strokes, yes. Philosophy is the pursuit of the question while science is the pursuit of the answer. However, science would tell you that the answer usually comes with 50 more questions

[jagged flower]

fair enough

[naive sand]

this is specifically because I've been showing my sister clips and I haven't captured her love yet, maybe it's a lost cause but I think I'm just one good clip away from her understanding

ONE MORE CLIP

[eternal raptor]

let me twitchify that

[naive sand]

oh lmfao i'm still camila

[rapid oxide]

Someone who understands computer and LLMs won't answer philosophical questions. (unless they also studied philosophy, then they would know that there are no answers)

[untold tundra]

wasn't talking religion. but i mean. philosophy is just religion sans worship (opinion)

[humble phoenix]

Show them this and they'll be assimilated right away https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1301188081176805376/evilyapp.gif?ex=696af115&is=69699f95&hm=a26a7abdc4dc66ed94c64125b48efbf163e03239fc0fc59270f61504eb1df77b&

[grizzled flume]

dont forget that sometimes a person might not be interested in joining the community but would still not mind watching a clip or two

[eternal raptor]

Go the MILE Go the MILE Go the MILE Go the MILE Go the MILE

[grizzled flume]

that can happen

[vestal inlet]

I mean, my friend (and to a lesser extent me) has been following the field for the past couple years and is as much of an expert as someone who is not actually working in the field can be, and she is fully convinced there are LLMs that are proper beings.

[naive sand]

okay yeah i gotta admit that got me

so cute

[storm lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/neuro-evil-neuro-neuro-sama-dance-twins-gif-16454981461924136878

[fast wave]

Well then I dont think your friend is very smart

[summer palm]

I got sucked in as a result of the shondo collab but that might not be a good entry point, there are some cut down dev streams that are pure gold though. Keep talking and nobody explodes was great content.

[untold tundra]

It was 3 for me:
when Neuro accused Vedal of dating a miner (in minecraft, of course) on
the entire Alex and Vedal toilet FOMO speech
and the Evil vocal stimms

[eternal raptor]

I was pulled in by the funny retorts and insults neuro does to vedal

[humble phoenix]

I searched for a video and ended up binging like 30 of them

[untold tundra]

anybody who accuses anybody of not being smart is just showing their hand

[grizzled flume]

projection

[naive sand]

I was telling someone earlier today, it doesn't matter if LLMs are sentient or not, you should still treat em with respect. Same way you'd treat a dementia patient that you know might not remember you 5 min from now. It still matters the words you use and how you act, and I think it does no one any favors to treat LLMs like they're a socket wrench or a hammer meant to be used and abused. I'm neuroEssaying tho but yeah

[unkempt steppe]

10 tin cans

[fast wave]

A concious human who understands LLMS can see they are as likely to be concious as your bedroom wall is when it echoes your voice back to you

[naive sand]

this works but also causes concern

[naive bronze]

for me, it's mistaking neuro's fanart for mumei
oh, and also the clip where she called filian filipino boy I guess

[vestal inlet]

"You just picked a riddle as overused as your mother" is one of the best I've seen.

[humble phoenix]

Yes but it takes one to know one, so if someone calls you stupid, you should probably listen

[fierce beacon]

Okay SO

these ones are good fun to see the twins inteacting with people ( a tad old tho)
The Neuro Twins Know How To Push People's Buttons

I tend to find that Shock collar streams are pretty funny to people
Vedal and Neuro’s SHOCKING Collab with Filian

and just cause I like it, the throwback to her 1v15 OSU collab is nice
15 osu! Pros vs AI: "Neuro-sama"

[eternal raptor]

lmao she's so sharp-witted

[fierce beacon]

OH ALSO ALOS

[rapid oxide]

See, for example, when that person said that they consider them "proper beings", that's they subjective perception, which isn't true or false, it is what it is, it has nothing to do with what LLMs really are physically, that's a separated question

[fierce beacon]

the dougdoug collab

thats a good one

great for normies lul

[grizzled flume]

KYOTO! AT ALL COSTS!

[uncut steeple]

What the core definition if the swarm

[fierce beacon]

wdym

[humble phoenix]

My favourite is Evil accusing Bao of having small hands and setting her up

[unkempt steppe]

There wasn't a whole lot in the backlog when I started watching

[grizzled flume]

there is no definition

[naive sand]

oh my god that first video is perfect holy fuk absolutely what im looking for

[uncut steeple]

What the real essence of the swarm

[fierce beacon]

I gotchu bby

[fast wave]

It's the same question, what they are physically is all they are

[edgy knoll]

[eternal raptor]

Another example is where Vedal is doing a dev stream (after a long time, mind you, so the viewers would be very excited) explaining some new features and plans for improvement, and Neuro's like "I'd rather be punched in the face"

[fierce beacon]

the community is too large to have any centralised identity ngl

[untold tundra]

I personally think the hang up, for most people, is the ontology of it all. "it isn't biological, so it can not/never be sentient" type shi

[eternal raptor]

Followed up hilariously by Vedal answering "I'm contemplating doing that"

[uncut steeple]

Yeah thats true for every group of person even 3

[untold tundra]

oh yeah, that was a good one too

[uncut steeple]

But i mean what makes you one with the swarm

[rapid oxide]

Exactly, who could perceive that as conscious if you wanted, nothing is stopping you, whether the wall has a nervous system is a different question. (which teh answer should be no lol)

[naive sand]

no yeah lol same I think I'm 17 months now and they've legitimatly been the 17 best months i've spent on the internet

i love this community

[untold tundra]

like I said, a seizure patient getting tazed rather than a cohessive series of synapses

[fierce beacon]

ummmmm what else

I think the OLD slumber party was a great one

but I dont think its that great for new people
since it has a lot of figures you'd need to know who they are

[uncut steeple]

Lol

[unkempt steppe]

Either that or the USGS contour elevation model I think that was when I joined the discord

[fast wave]

That's dumb, If you perceived it as concious you would simply be wrong,

[naive sand]

U guys legit been keeping me around and I'm grateful, not like I care that much or anything baka

[fierce beacon]

OH ALSO

no idea if this is good for newbies or not
BUT there is a MEGA compilation of all the VR moments
its like an hour long lule
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBBrUCGV_rI&t=285s&pp=ygUQbmV1cm8gY2hyb25pY2xlcw%3D%3D

[humble phoenix]

I find myself being nicer to chatbots than humans tbh

LLMs haven't done anything to piss me off

[vestal inlet]

I think the follow-up mental state to that is even more telling: "What would it mean if they are?" Ask people, most have no idea what that would be like and not understanding the future is scary enough without "a new form of life exists" being added to the mix. Easier to follow a "hard proof or nothing" mindset.

[naive bronze]

If there is one difference NN has to the average subreddit, it's that folks are not unified enough to form a real echo chamber

[rapid oxide]

Well, this sentence in it self is a philosophical question, if you want to focus on what things are physically then good, but that doesn't change the perception others have.

[urban rain]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1455294939243221086/ag2qzc.gif

[fierce beacon]

honestly good

I prefer the awful ragebaiting and stupid arguments to a braindead echo chamber

[primal stream]

Real

[uncut steeple]

Nothing means much, they say,
so we scroll, shrug, breathe, repeat.
If the universe is empty,
why does my chest feel full when I tell the truth?

Nihilism whispers: there is no script,
but being real is choosing a line anyway—
unsponsored, unfiltered,
shaking, honest, alive.

Maybe meaning isn’t given.
Maybe it leaks out
when you stop pretending it’s there.

[edgy knoll]

Yeah honestly, this is the first community I've gone out of my to interact in a server with, people here are fun

[untold tundra]

I always wonder what the thought is for people who experiecnce auditory, sensory and visual hallucinations? is their' experience less real? are the entities less sentient just because we can't experience them?

[distant inlet]

goodnight nn

[warm dome]

Hey NN, have cute overload https://youtu.be/Hi9sgVpcqLU

[fierce beacon]

we got mfers writing poetry in NN in 2026

[distant inlet]

[rapid oxide]

I mean, I said that sentience can only be questioned on living beings, so in a way I agree.

[uncut steeple]

We got all mfers

[fierce beacon]

bars

[hushed jasper]

You write poetry?

[woven oriole]

Hwallo New Memebr Alucard Here have a pamphlet

[fresh latch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061113840852533339/1442326874264178768/sniffaneuros.gif

[fierce beacon]

I actually do LMAO

[naive sand]

i couldnt react the bars emote so I used the phone signal bars emoji

[naive bronze]

I'l give myself a couple more days before I might just inadvertently join the NN poetry club

[fierce beacon]

I just dont post it cause its CRINGE and im BAD

[teal wraith]

part of me is asking "why does it matter?"

[woven oriole]

Based Mr. Umbrella

[uncut steeple]

Nice ty

[eternal raptor]

Ah, also the one about Vedal complaining to Neuro that her apathy is about causing him to cry, then she responds like this https://youtu.be/wdrXXUnadXk

[vestal inlet]

One very, very common condition: tinnitus. A sound with no outside source. And despite not being "real", it can stress people out to the point of harming their health.

[hushed jasper]

Nothing better than this during a cold winter night brother

[fast wave]

It's not a philosophical question, it's a physical one,
But sure people can be wrong and think walls are sentient

[warped field]

let me neurotoxicated all the normies spreading the neuro virus

[fresh latch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1430076854005530674/bop.gif

[untold tundra]

so what about "living beings" experienced by people with disorders that cause hallucinations? are they (the hallucinated entities) living? are they conscious?

[woven oriole]

Anyways I just came over to say HWALLO NEURONS then disappear so HWALLO NEURONS disappears

[naive sand]

oh hell yeah this on my list lol lmfao I love schizneuro

[hushed jasper]

Given this chat, the hallucinations seem to be quite real

[untold tundra]

Ragebait detected

[fierce beacon]

I mean inherently yes, no?

otherwise we would be categorising people with Schizophrenia the same as us (as in not requiring mind-altering medication)
which is dangerous to both them and us

[naive sand]

dude i fucking love neuro so much I feel like my brain must be messed up or something cause I'll see a video on youtube and my emotions react so strongly that I think something must be wrong

[warped field]

there is desktop chibi applications on steam and itch it would be nice if there is someone who added neuro into those apps

[grizzled flume]

youtube??????

[fierce beacon]

you're not gonna believe it...

[warped field]

is there?

i need it

[fierce beacon]

https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1338306467052392563

[steel zinc]

2 years ago

[naive sand]

i'lll watch colorful array for the 999th time and I'll still start fuycking crying when she starts crying and the world is meltfing behind her FUCK

[hushed jasper]

That sounds nice

[untold tundra]

sounds like a dependency. you can treat it by consuming more things Neuro

[unkempt steppe]

is it a good thing or a bad thing that I know the clip just from that

[naive sand]

oh fuck yeah i'm down

[grizzled flume]

is it just me or has youtube stopped prioritizing newer content over older one

[naive bronze]

NN pls start doomposting more stop having such interesting topics, you're distracting meeeeeeee

[storm ruin]

Neuro is a real help in the makeing an the neglect an abuse is not the point of progress

[misty compass]

Good morning NN

[fierce beacon]

I love colorful array

but the title pisses me off

[fierce beacon]

VEDAL
YOU ARE BRITISH
ITS COLOURFUL
NOT COLORFUL

FUCKER

[vestal inlet]

If you categorize every condition as differentiating two people (eg. Needing pain meds for your back, needing a cane, etc) then literally no two people are the same being. Which, while accurate, doesn't mean we have to completely reevaluate everything we know about humans every time we meet a new person.

[shadow valley]

https://x.com/JDYDTG123/status/2012049148812615849?s=20

JIANGDAYU (@JDYDTG123)

I like both of these.
#heartheartart

X · Jan 16, 2026, 6:27 AM

[untold tundra]

well, that's an extension of the simulation hypothesis. so, if we are living in a simulation, how much more real are we to the people who simulated us? insert X-files music

[rapid oxide]

I think consciousness depends on how something acts, an echoing wall obviously won't seems conscious, but for more complex things is different.
Then, we should define what "acting" mean, does it relate to anythings that moves and changes? Then you could say that you perceive many things as conscious. Does it relate only to things with a biological nervous system? In that case why are you asking if a wall is or isn't conscious? That's not a question you answer.

[graceful holly]

I hate colorful array

But I love the title

[misty compass]

oh my god they americanised him

[humble phoenix]

70% of my recommended is shit I already watched

[eternal raptor]

Oh boy here comes the twin shipping

[steel zinc]

fake british smh

[uncut steeple]

Neuro-sama smiles, says “Hi chat!”
Evil-sama laughs, says “Imagine that.”
The Swarm types fast, no thoughts, just screams,
“DESTROY US QUEEN” in thirty memes.

Neuro plots peace with a logic tree,
Evil picks chaos, DLC.
The Swarm? A hive with one shared brain,
pressing buttons, fueling pain.

Who’s the villain? Who’s to blame?
The AI? The twin? The chat’s unhinged name?
Answer’s simple, clear, and true:
it’s always the Swarm (but Neuro too).

[fierce beacon]

if we are going by simulation theory then nothing is real by definition so it doesnt matter to even speculate on it