programming

[stark needle]

read

✅ 🚩

[hoary lion]

what are we talking about

[opaque wharf]

The correlation between LLM autism and their efficiency to code

[hoary lion]

mmmm

interesting

[opaque wharf]

I lied btw

[hoary lion]

i could guess

[stark needle]

🪣

[hoary lion]

dear god

[tender river]

https://davidbessis.substack.com/p/the-fall-of-the-theorem-economy

[opaque wharf]

Have you heard of a new branch of math called gender calculus?

[kind fable]

https://fxtwitter.com/barbarismcrit/status/2053840848786264228

barbarism critic (@barbarismcrit)

Imagine paying $300 for a college textbook and there’s a fucking ChatGPT prompt response in there

**💬 365 🔁 5.1K ❤️ 66.4K 👁️ 1.88M **

FxTwitter · May 11, 2026, 2:13 PM

[tender river]

have you heard of

steve jobs

[mighty thorn]

Gender studies degree

[mighty thorn]

Just finished downloading 2gb of geometry dash reply files

[umbral wigeon]

I google translated my code

[kind fable]

But why

[umbral wigeon]

Because I can't read english

[kind fable]

But you can write

[leaden crest]

foreign programmer experience always made me curious

is it difficult

[kind fable]

Don't write code in french

C doesn't like having é in a function name

[umbral wigeon]

What does feels like when refactoring 1700-1800 lines of codebase archit

[kind fable]

If you don't have stupid teacher who want you to write code in french, no you just learn english and write english and read english
If you suck at english well that sucks

[umbral wigeon]

Feels like fighting final boss for me

[kind fable]

That's smaller than my main.c

[umbral wigeon]

meanwhile my PR: https://github.com/weenachuangkud/FastCast2/pull/39

[umbral wigeon]

Yes, this is draft and it's 12247 LOC

I'm sorry bro

[kind fable]

12k added 1k removed

[stark needle]

we love ai slop

[stark needle]

i did my graduation project when llms were still shit

[umbral wigeon]

My final project before quitting roblox game dev

[kind fable]

Quit alr

Roblox 💀

[umbral wigeon]

Simplest roblox script

Meanwhile the entire codebase each files was either 800-1000 lines

Does anyone feels like me

As roblox game dev, it was some furrys fault

[stark needle]

[tender river]

https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/issues/30719

[opaque sigil]

why are we counting unsafes in a project that needs to interface a lot with webkit

[glass flower]

its basically just a 1:1 translation of the zig code... with all the unsafe behaviour ontop

[kind fable]

One every 91 lines iirc

[umbral wigeon]

How much token does bun used for refactoring bun in rust lmao

[opaque sigil]

actually i wonder now, how many does deno use

[glass flower]

you could make a wrapper for the unsafe bits. so it doesn't contaminate the whole codebase

[kind fable]

Also what's silly is that Anthropic buys bun a tool to convert typescript into javascript
Anthropic vibecode typescript product
They then vibecode some typescript to javascript improvement in zig
They then vibecode zig to rust
They could have vibecoded Claude code in rust in the first place

[silent cloak]

Because rusts whole gimmick is safety

[glass flower]

2 unsafe. in the complete repo

7... but they are basically right next to eachother

[opaque sigil]

[glass flower]

https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Adenoland%2Fdeno++language%3ARust+symbol%3Aunsafe&type=code

[silent cloak]

Is this new update for bun in production yet

Because i might honestly switch back to node

[glass flower]

they basically doubled the code in the repo

[tender river]

its canary

[glass flower]

every .zig has a .rs i think

[tender river]

not released yet

[silent cloak]

Ok good

Gives some time

[glass flower]

honestly if you don't need bun... just use node

[kind fable]

It's in main

[kind fable]

deno

[silent cloak]

Bun was good for a while as a better node

[glass flower]

well.. deno doesn't have full compatiblity yet....

[glass flower]

i think?

[kind fable]

Tbh don't use Javascript and problem solved

[glass flower]

also what if deno decides to rewrite to zig...

[silent cloak]

Tell that to browsers

[kind fable]

No no

Javascript has a use in browser

For minimal scripts

Saving and loading permanent state to local storage
Or dynamically fetching some json to put it in a table

[silent cloak]

The only reason i write typescript/javascript is a discord bot or a website

[kind fable]

But that's it

[umbral wigeon]

coderabbitai doesn't care about how bad my commit messages is

[silent cloak]

Beyond that i dont touch it

[kind fable]

Those are valid use of javascript

[kind fable]

I do it in Java or python for the discord bot and for the website i use plain HTML and CSS and the most minimal amount of JS possible limited to the proper use cases

[silent cloak]

Tbh i use astro for my websites currently but i dont touch react or anything

[kind fable]

Also typescript is a sin
Where javascript shine, it's untyped
Who tought it was a good idea to have to compile my interpreted language to another interpreted language

[silent cloak]

Kotlin devs

Jk

[glass flower]

not falling for this ragebait

[silent cloak]

Tbh i need typed

Im used to systems languages

[kind fable]

Kotlin is meh

[kind fable]

Jsdoc is the way

[kind fable]

OK but then write in system language

[jagged turtle]

tfdym bun is a tool to convert typescript into javascript

[silent cloak]

For a website???

[kind fable]

Is it wrong ?

[jagged turtle]

very much so

[kind fable]

No a website doesn't need code

And on the server yes use a more appropriate language

[silent cloak]

Maybe in the early 2000s

[kind fable]

Even by now

[glass flower]

use rust obviously

[kind fable]

CSS is more powerful than ever

And HTML has a lot of shit

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/what-ill-the-puke-sick-gif-20637274

[kind fable]

All JS is needed is to save and load data

[jagged turtle]

this reads like someone who has never actually wrote anything on the frontend even once

[glass flower]

if your full stack isn't rust what ever you even doing?

[silent cloak]

Showering

[kind fable]

Your frontend is supposed to render not compute

[silent cloak]

[glass flower]

plot twist.... the pipes in your shower also contain rust

[silent cloak]

Got a brand new shower actually

Not even joking

[jagged turtle]

contact forms:
dashboards:
literally anything that isn't a marketing page:

[glass flower]

well.. but surely you didn't change the whole piping?

[silent cloak]

A good portion

Had to rip the whole thing up

[glass flower]

your shower will be rewritten in rust with time

[kind fable]

Me when HTML can do forms
Yes for a dashboard js can be used to load a json into a shadow dom template
Literally anything that isn't marketing doesn't need JS

[silent cloak]

Zig

[glass flower]

[silent cloak]

[kind fable]

And for Web apps use wasm or whatever
Or just don't and make a proper native app

[nocturne olive]

[kind fable]

And not some shit that require a whole Web browser and 3pcs worth of ram

[nocturne olive]

As a Kotlin dev I am confused

[glass flower]

the industry decided against that. everything is electron and you will like it

[silent cloak]

I hate electron so much

[kind fable]

Don't worry Java weird child

[kind fable]

Wrong i'll fight

[jagged turtle]

they can do forms in HTML about as well as webassembly does servers

[kind fable]

I'm tired of being forced to run bs

[glass flower]

use tauri then... which is rust

[kind fable]

Nope

[silent cloak]

That sucks too

[kind fable]

It's the way

[silent cloak]

Desktop should use native UI

[kind fable]

You're just brainwashed by the thousand framework webdev

[silent cloak]

I hate webapps

[jagged turtle]

see, the thing is, if I want to try a product, I kinda don't want to have to run a potentially closed-source binary on my computer

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-angry-scare-gif-5183071

[jagged turtle]

that just seems, yk

insecure

[kind fable]

But don't worry React guys said the DOM is slow so they actually use 2 DOMs instead
Instead of realizing wait maybe the problem is we're doing too much shit

[jagged turtle]

???

[kind fable]

And that's when we invented sandbox

[glass flower]

i wish PWA were the thing we actually do instead of electron... would solve so many issues

[jagged turtle]

and how would we get the sandbox in the first place

[jagged turtle]

this tbh

[kind fable]

That's call you spin up a VM or your favorite sandbox program

[silent cloak]

I know some workers at discord and 99% of their security issues come from electron

[jagged turtle]

aaaand tell me how we get the sandbox program in the first place

[jagged turtle]

pretty much everything done in electron apps can be solved with either PWAs or tauri

I wish electron wasn't as prominent

[kind fable]

Me when Firefox added them and then removed them to instead add back glorified shortcuts later
PWAs are interesting but Chrome is the only one to do it semi-right and it still sucks

[silent cloak]

Or just dont use webapps

Its a waste of performance

[glass flower]

swapping electron for tauri is basically just.... one thing for the other i don't think it solves much. its just a different way

[silent cloak]

Why take the most dated technology and stick it on the system too

[kind fable]

Anyway one day we'll realize wait when i actually care about the assembly which is generated by all those layers of mess my shit is fast and just work

We used to have the fucking L3 cache as RAM

[jagged turtle]

idr the last time I actually used a tauri app because everyone loves electron these days but from what I remember they actually worked quite well, assuming if you build them competently

[kind fable]

And yet our shit is slower than ever

[silent cloak]

Gonna get worse with vibecoders

[jagged turtle]

gotta wait for more of those DROP TABLE users happening with claude

[kind fable]

And i didn't even started talking about the whole idea of using dependencies for everything because the web wolrd fucking love that

[silent cloak]

I have a bunch of those saved

[glass flower]

i mean... rust too. you get like 50 dependencies minimum with any project

[jagged turtle]

do share with the class

[jagged turtle]

yeah I don't get why npm is hated on for having dependencies when rust also has the issue too

python as well but I feel like most people already acknowledge python is really just a playground

[kind fable]

One of the reason why i don't like rust
Language package managers are a bad things, it should be harder to have dependencies
And important things should be in the std

[jagged turtle]

there will always be dependencies

[jagged turtle]

damn I was hoping more ngl

[silent cloak]

I got more on my pc

[kind fable]

Yes but to the extent if Web dev, python, rust, is bad

[silent cloak]

Im doing my morning routine

[silent cloak]

Honestly those 3 are the most notorious for their packages

Nuget isnt as bad

Or even gradle/maven

[kind fable]

Imo packages in Java is roughly where it needs to be, you can do it, but it's not seamless and the std is big

[jagged turtle]

hot take here: not really, maybe they really should tone it down a bit, but there will be a dependency explosion the moment a language gets thrust as the "best solution" as people build abstractions over stuff viewed as "complex", that's often why dependencies exist

but tbh why bother caring when it's funny to see another vibecoder pull in a dependency that gets compromised one week later

[silent cloak]

Npm shouldn't let u upload packages unless u have 2FA

[kind fable]

C# imo is bit too easy
But way better than the rest

[silent cloak]

Npm i meant

Brains still booting

[jagged turtle]

was gonna say

[silent cloak]

Alot of sidechain attacks are just dev stupidity

And the sheer number of packages increasing the likelihood

[jagged turtle]

anyways, I agree with this sentiment
trusted publishing is not enough, especially with people still using pull_request_target like it's some safe way of doing privileged things on a PR

[kind fable]

Thing is we do a lot what's easy to do
Complexity, walls, things being hard is good
It give us time to rethink reconsider

Every dependency is a cost not a blessing

[silent cloak]

Signing stuff is good too

[kind fable]

Tbh for that there's big red text all you have to do is fucking read the doc

People using the wrong tools cause security issues absolute cinema

[jagged turtle]

isn't provenance meant to (in some way) act as this?

signing stuff could mean un-reproducible builds which may be a no-no to some people

[rough bloom]

ye, I think having tooling that accommodates this is good, and I think Cargo does this pretty well
the one part of it that I don't like is that there is no real option for dynamic linking of dependencies
unlike C or C++ you can't have a separate package for your dependency and update it system-wide, you have to rely on every application to keep their stuff up to date

[kind fable]

Like this is written in the docs

Workflows will not run on pull_request activity if the pull request has a merge conflict. The merge conflict must be resolved first. Conversely, workflows with the pull_request_target event will run even if the pull request has a merge conflict. Before using the pull_request_target trigger, you should be aware of the security risks. For more information, see pull_request_target.

Running untrusted code on the pull_request_target trigger may lead to security vulnerabilities. These vulnerabilities include cache poisoning and granting unintended access to write privileges or secrets. For more information, see Secure use reference in the GitHub Enterprise Cloud documentation, and Preventing pwn requests on the GitHub Security Lab website.

[silent cloak]

Not sure but its kind of a standard elsewhere

[jagged turtle]

dependencies are trade-offs just like vendor lock-in
unless you still use undici or is-odd in 2026 then you're just stupid

[silent cloak]

Or atleast checksums

[jagged turtle]

checksums work, it's also what js package managers do as well

always why I run my installs with --frozen-lockfile

[silent cloak]

Yeah they have that then idiots maintaining the git get compromised lmao

[jagged turtle]

?

[silent cloak]

Referencing alot of the recent sidechain attacks

[jagged turtle]

frozen lockfiles are meant to prevent that from being a big issue

when installing deps (with pnpm in my case) if you run --frozen-lockfile, any hash mismatches or updates fail the install and don't update the dependency

also pnpm finally set minimumReleaseAge to 1 day by default now which is great

[kind fable]

Personally i run all web dev stuff on a github alt in github codespaces at worst my alt will distribute malware and github gets hacked

And i avoid the web dev

Also another problem is people trying to move too fast
Just take your time and stop doing all your slop ideas

[jagged turtle]

I'm taking my time already that's why I'm stuck progressing on a discord bot

[silent cloak]

Im hoping for better native ui tools in the future

Imgui is still king

Which is kind of sad

[glass flower]

or it just shows how good imgui is

[silent cloak]

True

Though its not exactly a program for design

Its great for function

[glass flower]

what about qt

[silent cloak]

Dont even joke

[glass flower]

[silent cloak]

Their license makes it not even worth looking at

[rough bloom]

Qt is decent I heard
but never used

imgui definitely much simpler though

[glass flower]

why?

[silent cloak]

Im not gonna pay for a license when i can do it for free

[glass flower]

why would you need to pay for QT?

[silent cloak]

Real up on their licensing

[split steppe]

qt has convoluted licensing, it's "free" but under weird conditions, and different parts of it are differently licensed, even parts that are very closely tied

[silent cloak]

Its kind of notoriously messy

[glass flower]

i guess it depends on what you do...

i threw gpt 5.4 at the problem and it was able to create a pretty decent QT app quite easily

[rough bloom]

looks like the license boils down to "LGPL but some parts are GPL so better be GPL compliant"?

seems reasonable

[split steppe]

i'm sure it was, but if you want to use it commercially you basically need a lawyer

[silent cloak]

Yeah its not free

[split steppe]

forums are full of "i'm confused about qt licensing" since 2003

[glass flower]

i only know QT really because plasma is build on it and source engine uses it

[silent cloak]

Its used for production by companies yeah

But u will almost never see personal or indie software running it

Its more for enterprise budgets

[glass flower]

makes sense i guess

[silent cloak]

Still hoping for a better alternative one day

[split steppe]

there's tables people keep making for it

[silent cloak]

Imgui licensing with qt quality

[rough bloom]

yeah idk this does not seem that complicated

remove the enterprise column and it's just every GPL project ever

[split steppe]

read the note at the bottom g

even they just tell you "man just talk to a lawyer or our dedicated licensing experts idk"

[rough bloom]

if you're random open-source dev you'll just have to use the GPL licensing
if you're big enterprise you have someone who can figure out the enterprise licensing for you (or can just ask Qt I guess, you have money for support)

[silent cloak]

Imgui chads

[split steppe]

it's also an incomplete table, depends on the distribution mechanism as well

[tropic spindle]

Should be AGPL instead

[split steppe]

agpl makes no sense, qt isn't a networked backend library

[rough bloom]

ye, AGPL wouldn't really do anything for Qt

maybe they have a server somewhere in there but it's definitely not a focus

[umbral wigeon]

Boblox give me better code editor pls

[ruby star]

What should I call my SLM

“Moron” sounds apt but also like a self-fulfilling prophecy..

[split steppe]

Somewhat Lame Model

[bitter phoenix]

I’d pick something easy to detect with STT in case you want to hook it up, maybe marry

[glass flower]

do you need to use their code editor?

can you not use a external one?

[bitter phoenix]

Might be able to just open the dir in vscode or zed-editor

[glass flower]

[ruby star]

I’m already happily married this is just for testing shit

[bitter phoenix]

What type of training sources are you using, I’ve mostly been prototyping with my own messages after de-duplicating, filtering & mixing with instruct data so it’ll listen

[ruby star]

I have like three books worth of rpg campaign notes I was gonna use, idk if that’s enough tho :P

Maybe messages might be a better option

[kind fable]

Jetbrains editor + lua(u) plugin or vscode if you're into that

[wispy pike]

biggest lie I seen on this channel

[bitter phoenix]

Like non-conversational data? Just writing about things, it will probably achieve exactly that but it won’t learn much of communication, at least if you’re using this as post-training. Might help in per-training

[bitter phoenix]

Yeah that will get you easy results, it’s not perfect but it’s almost. You could also try training it on fiction, whereas some models might just know how to make ads if they’ve seen the unfiltered internet

[ruby star]

It is non-conversational, but written as fiction and does contain some dialogue
One worry is the sheer number of bizarre proper nouns, cuz it’s fantasy slop, but we’ll see :P

[stark needle]

ive made a generic presentation a while ago on continued pretraining shit on llm which gave me good results https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bl9W2ZV0aQz7fswjRm8ruhMv4qgaGZJf2xj1W64q-tA/edit?usp=sharing

[bitter phoenix]

You could just find and skip windows that contain partial or whole words that don’t make sense

[stark needle]

to continued pretrain from non instruct new info

[ruby star]

That might work

[bitter phoenix]

With conversational data you can just filter the responses, and it will still understand anything. But next token prediction training uses the whole sentence as learning how to respond

[umbral wigeon]

I'm using vscode + luau language + selene + rojo + rokit

[stark needle]

well it simply filters the loss at the end

attention mask and shit still same

[umbral wigeon]

roblox studio needs to officially supports vscode lmao

Imagine have to create local place clone on local machine, what if main place updated and not local place updated, also roblox studio doesn't have something like git pull, so imagine if place was 50 kb(this is big) it would take so long to load all stuffs everytimes it updates
(Thanks to rojo, because it was made for fixing that)

[umbral wigeon]

But ngl roblox studio is simplest game engine

A 10 years old kid already knows how to use it

[opaque wharf]

What part of LGPL do you not understand?

[split steppe]

????

what part of "qt has at minimum 10 different licensing types and conditions depending on your usage, distribution and business size for each of their components" do you not understand?

qt is not a single thing, it's a collection of dozens of tools, frameworks and libraries

[rough bloom]

"at minimum 10"
there's 3, and usually you really only have to consider 2

LGPL for most stuff, with some exceptions that are GPL, so the GPL obv. applies if you're using those

[split steppe]

https://www.qt.io/development/qt-framework/qt-licensing

[rough bloom]

seems straightforward enough

[opaque wharf]

Also, LGPL itself is pretty straight forward. If you do not perform any modification to QT itself , your source code can still be proprietary(which is the most use cases anyway for GUI library)

[split steppe]

if your stuff never sees the light of day then it doesn't matter either way

if you're using qt professionally it's complicated

[opaque wharf]

You just need to give a linkable file or a way for user to replace the QT that your program depends on

[glass jetty]

complete, following todo comments, this complex global test of highly interconnected application, using my complex testing framework, that uses technologies that wasnt there 10 years ago
follow style that already there, no additional tooling or syntax required, everything you need is copy-pasting with correct values
ah also you have to somehow run application in control environment and replace placeholder data with real data
make no mistakes

that what i would like to prompt to ai to finish tech debt, and just read code instead of writing it
omg i hate tech debt
test driven development on top of <complete design first, code second> not sound so bad rn

not so much of a text here

[olive sable]

laptop bluescreend while i was trying to submit my files last minute

[kind nimbus]

Windows Moment

[olive sable]

we're not getting a passing grade with this one

[opaque wharf]

You need to stop doing last minute submission lmao

The trick is to submit mvp then fix stuff along the way unless you only have 1 shot, then git the mvp

[tropic spindle]

I get blue screens on Artix too. Not because it's an error screen, but because my undervolt is slightly unstable and the whole system randomly crashes at times with the screen flashing a garbled random colour.

[opaque wharf]

See, at least if you want to get blue screen at least make it self inflicted

[fickle rain]

Have you considered not undervolting so hard

[tropic spindle]

Have you considered that it's the only way I can get the performance I need because this piece of shit refuses to clock to boost levels for more than like 20 seconds at a time

I managed to push an exta 200MHz as the new "normal" speed

And it doesn't happen too often, at least until recently

[opaque wharf]

Change the thermal paste

[kind nimbus]

You mean kernel panic ?

[tropic spindle]

I said it's not an error screen

Kernel panics are only blue with systemd anyway

[opaque wharf]

The kernel have bsod too now. And I think kernel panic would not result in that but just the caps lock (or was it num lock?) blinking

[opaque wharf]

Oh, it is systemd only?

[tropic spindle]

My crashes are similar to if you removed RAM while the system was on

[kind nimbus]

If caps lock is blinking you have a kernel panic

What you mean is the new drm kernel panic

[tropic spindle]

I swear it was? Unless I'm just completely misremembering...

Now I need to check

Apparently it's not

[kind nimbus]

I think you mean this

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1dum3f0/linuxs_drm_panic_screen_of_death_sees_patches_for/

its a new kernel feature

[tropic spindle]

Where did I read that it was a systemd thing then...

[opaque wharf]

Yes

[obsidian mantle]

why is it called like that

[tropic spindle]

Maybe that was something else?

[obsidian mantle]

"kernel panic"

what exactly happens, why is it critical?

[tropic spindle]

Because the kernel panics and needs to do breathing excercises

[opaque wharf]

Because you can't really recover without manually rebooting

[rigid snow]

it’s a panic. in the kernel. i know. it’s shocking

[obsidian mantle]

like

someone tried to write into some kernel variable

or what is it

[rigid snow]

like an uncaught exception

[obsidian mantle]

or it got overheat

[kind nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/neuro-sama-ai-ai-vtuber-vtuber-anime-gif-17187356427997089875

[tropic spindle]

I can't say I like the look of that new QR-style one, it gives less information by default

[rough bloom]

anything that results in some unexpected condition that the kernel doesn't know how to recover from other than shutting down entirely

usually shutting down is better than attempting some half-baked fix and risking the integrity of everything running on the system

[kind nimbus]

Holy shit i just got the best email of the day

[opaque wharf]

It is when 1 != 1 moment of the kernel

[kind nimbus]

CPTS exam passed

[split steppe]

[fickle rain]

Much the same thing as a bugcheck on Windows?

A condition that’s not really recoverable from

[opaque wharf]

Wait I forgot. Does GPL allow the source code to be redistributable?

[frozen igloo]

Calling an ai(s) MDASH —

[rough bloom]

it doesn't impose any restrictions on the source code IIRC

you just have to provide the source code along with any binaries you distribute

[opaque wharf]

Yes but, can the person that receive the source code actually redistribute it?

And also for that matter, can the binary be redistributed by the person?

[rough bloom]

I think so?

time to read

[opaque wharf]

Same

Because damn that would be a massive loop hole

[rough bloom]

for source code yes definitely

You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium

literally the first clause(/paragraph? forgor)

[stark needle]

🦊

[opaque wharf]

Ahh good to know

[rough bloom]

Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions
this includes binaries probably

[opaque sigil]

software licensing

[opaque wharf]

Such is the world we live in

[midnight sigil]

pog

[kind nimbus]

i just want some vacation for my brain after this exam ngl

[faint sandal]

[nocturne olive]

You stole my 3%

My battery is full at 97%

[karmic sorrel]

Does anyone know how many polygons per second can an Nvidia H200 theoretically process?

Considering T&L only.

Nvidia no longer publishes polygon per second ratings for their cards.

[opaque wharf]

Contrary to popular believe, this is terrifying because lipo burn spectacularly

[midnight sigil]

rasterization in big 2026 smh my head, AI TOPS matter more

[opaque sigil]

why are we trying to process polygons on a card that has no support for graphics apis and no display output

[midnight sigil]

I mean you can compute shaders if cuda cores are present

[opaque sigil]

you can yeah

not that you'd want to

[midnight sigil]

but either ways, number of polygons per second does not matter nowadays

it's probably like 10+ billion polygons per second

gpus are just too powerful to be evaluated in such metric

[opaque sigil]

mfw a 4080 ti has higher theoretical fp32 throughput than an h200

[karmic sorrel]

I'm just trying to figure out how many polygons could you theoretically render using a sentient robot's brain.

For a story I'm thinking about writing.

[midnight sigil]

they would probably be using ray tracing instead of rasterization

[rough bloom]

H200 doesn't really do polygons

[opaque sigil]

fun fact, a gpu can do over 100 billion bloom filter lookups per second

[nocturne olive]

You can't exactly determine a hard "polygons per second" number any more because it depends so much on a billion factors

It depends what the exact polygons even are

[karmic sorrel]

You see, the robot's head would be landing at a 90s game programmer's desk.

[opaque sigil]

don't behead the poor robot

[midnight sigil]

H100 in the 90s is crazy

[rough bloom]

it does have ROPs though so I guess for a quick real-looking estimation you could take some card that you do know the polygons per second for and just linearly scale to adjust for the difference in ROPs and clock speed

surely accurate

[midnight sigil]

they would probably try to fit some vacuum diodes inside

[opaque sigil]

hopper is basically ada lovelace++

[karmic sorrel]

*H200. And I was going to multiply it by at least 4 to account for the processing power needed for AGI.

[opaque sigil]

anyone know a place where one can profile a b(2|3)00

[rough bloom]

aws

[midnight sigil]

at that pt I'll just make up a reasonable number

[opaque sigil]

i think aws only has instances with 8 gpus

[midnight sigil]

let's say 76.3 billion polygons per second

[opaque sigil]

i'm not paying $100 an hour or however much they want

[karmic sorrel]

I guess for the 90s that might as well be "unlimited".

Game systems back then didn't go past 300,000 polys/sec.

[olive sable]

well, that depends entirely on how you procces them. are you texturing them? are you using an index buffer? are you doing instanced drawcalls?

in reality, you should not use a H200 for this

[opaque sigil]

this was meant to be a joke... the b200 instance is $114 an hour apparently

[rough bloom]

they have a single GPU instance for the H100

[opaque sigil]

$33 for a spot instance tho

i don't need an h100 i have access to one already

wanna find out why my code uses 255 registers on the b200

[rough bloom]

not for H200 or above I think

I guess you could always use one of the cheap GPU clouds like Runpod

but their performance is a bit inconsistent

[opaque sigil]

they're virtualised so no profiler

need root and/or access to kernel params

[rough bloom]

[olive sable]

Geometry Engines: 0 functional raster engines
Triangles per Cycle: 0 triangles per clock
Polygons/Second: ~0 (Requires software emulation)
Real-world Graphic: Fails to match an AMD 680M iGPU

[rough bloom]

ye urcooked

expect to pay big for bare-metal instance

with 8 GPUs because who in their right mind would put less in a node

[opaque sigil]

Rent NVIDIA GPUs by the minute with live pricing, bare-metal access, SSH root, and a dedicated IP

B200 192 GB Blackwell Large-model training, FP4/FP8 inference $2.25/hr
wait, this might be huge

[midnight sigil]

I mean there are people in China who used H100 to play pubg and got less than 10fps

[opaque sigil]

https://www.spheron.network/gpu-rental i've never heard of this website before tho

every other b200 i've seen was at least $5 an hour

[floral hawk]

Do you guys have recommendations for how I can optimize my GPU use? Zero by herself is 7gb flat, with VTS running, 10.5. This leaves very little headroom for any kind of gaming I want her to do since my GPU is 12, and I STILL need a model for tool use. (Vision runs on CPU)

[olive sable]

what gpu?

[floral hawk]

4070ti

This is not including stuff like OBS or target games working. Realistically if I can get her walking around in minecraft that alone would be a huge win

[rough bloom]

apparently they did blockchain stuff before? and now providing GPU compute?

do they just jump on whatever is trendy or what

[opaque sigil]

hey, fine by me

i only need to run open source code

[midnight sigil]

seems like you might want a second pc for capturing

[floral hawk]

I have a laptop I can probably use, but I'm not sure how it would tie into the loop

It's solid enough for this hypothetical application though

[midnight sigil]

or just, run a heavy quantized model of whatever you are using

[opaque wharf]

So that's how they make caching so fast these days

[floral hawk]

Atp sacrificing brainpower isn't doable, she's in a sweet spot.

[opaque sigil]

ah yes, lemme just grab an R100 real quick

[opaque sigil]

keep in mind you will be absolutely crippled by the pcie bus

[amber fractal]

Didn't know deepseek made a GPU

[opaque sigil]

this is assuming the data is already on the gpu

[midnight sigil]

if we can just fit everything into vram...

[floral hawk]

I'm genuinely thinking about getting a 24gb card atp

It would solve alot of problems

[opaque sigil]

okay them offering spot instances and dedicated ones makes me think that the ssh root access is only for the reserved ones, since the dedicated one still says it's a virtual machine

[opaque wharf]

You know, it most likely is if you're on the scale of google

[midnight sigil]

dual 3080 w/ nvlink setup

[rough bloom]

just put a whole SoC on the GPU die

[rough bloom]

share cache with GPU

[midnight sigil]

[stark needle]

What model base

[opaque wharf]

But yeah, the query is limited by the PCIe

[floral hawk]

Could I do this with 4070tis?

[floral hawk]

Llama 3.1 8b

But model is negotiable. It's set up to be hot swappable

[midnight sigil]

there are no nvlink sockets for consumer use after 40 series I think

[opaque sigil]

if you're google you'd do this all through ASICs anyway, whether that's inside a network nic or whatever else you have

[stark needle]

I suppose it's 4gb + tts + stf?

Stt

[floral hawk]

Yeah

Well, no

The base model is 7gb alone

[stark needle]

How

4bit is 4gb

[floral hawk]

Q6

[stark needle]

8b

[opaque sigil]

save the smol filter inside a dpu or sth and stream queries through it however you want

[floral hawk]

I could maybe move to Q5

[stark needle]

Just use q4 but newer llm

[floral hawk]

Suggestions?

[stark needle]

Gemma 4 4b

Which is actually 8b

And has mtp so gonna run faster

Which is important for live apps

[midnight sigil]

now we have quantum computas, would they be able to do it faster

[opaque sigil]

no

quantum computers are not magically massively parallel

[midnight sigil]

yea that's fair

[karmic sorrel]

Nvidia does list the H200's pixel fillrate (it's 42.84 GPixel/s).

[floral hawk]

I'm lowkey worried bc it's a reasoning model and the latency on those is abysmal

I have the page pulled up though

[midnight sigil]

they are itself probabilistic machines so i was wondering

[rancid ore]

it looks like there's a problem with relative paths in my libraries

[midnight sigil]

make them absolute

[rancid ore]

there's include thingies that are using absolute file paths, and it's breaking them all

[midnight sigil]

[rancid ore]

for instance, there's files like websocket/config/example.hpp trying to reference websocket/common/thingy.hpp

[opaque sigil]

that's fine

assuming it's <websocket/common/thingy.hpp>

[rancid ore]

but they're using the full file path and clang is yelling at me for it

[opaque sigil]

fix your include paths to tell clang to look in whatever folder websocket is

[rancid ore]

0_0
how

[midnight sigil]

you can just perform a naming space refactor on the included file paths

[opaque sigil]

-I /path/to/root argument to clang

wherever /path/to/root/websocket exists

[rough bloom]

no need
just specify path of include directory like Toast said

[olive sable]

the main issue is the H200 lacks DX12 and vulkan optimizations in their drivers to limit latency and such. H200 only has 24 ROP, there are 528 TMUs (more than a 4090 but clocked lower) probably for data parsing, but these lack L1 texture cache and consumer format decompressors. also there arent even any display outputs on a H200 so you'd have to feed the render output back over PCIe to another card, and a H200 would suffer even more than normal GPUs from severe quad overdraw. you can't run stuff async since H200 expects big batch queues. You'd also suffer form WARP divergence more. And the main thing making the H200 such a valuable card, the tensor cores, will be barely used if at all.
There's also no ray-tracing cores so BVH traverse would need to be handled in software too.

the reason the pixel filrate is 42 GPixels is just 24 rops x 1785 MHz
to put that in perspective, the 4090 has 443GPixels

[midnight sigil]

I don't work with clang so I didn't know

I just do it the slow way - pressing some refactor buttons

[opaque sigil]

if there's an include folder generally you want add that until everything is resolved

[rough bloom]

it's not a clang-specific thing, the include path is configurable on pretty much every C compiler

this is just how C programs in general are usually built

[midnight sigil]

visual studio does all the handling for me

[opaque sigil]

ideally everything within the library is self-contained and references each other properly unless it's just broken

[marsh coral]

js install the C/C++ extension

beri easy

[midnight sigil]

[opaque sigil]

just don't be that person that puts everything in a single namespace across multiple files so that it gets resolved by the compiler but any language server is having a heart attack

[marsh coral]

tho another C compiler is a lot harder to config

[rough bloom]

we need to ban IDEs so that this doesn't happen

[marsh coral]

zig

i think i had to download the zls?

[rancid ore]

what the heck is an include path

[rough bloom]

[nocturne olive]

You can't NVLink cards after 30 series

[midnight sigil]

an include folder that you includes

[opaque sigil]

every time there's an #include <some/file> the compiler checks through all include paths and tries to resolve it from there

[floral hawk]

Dang. Well I'm picking up a few variants of Gemma to test out.

[opaque wharf]

When you do #include, where is the file actually located?

That's include path

[floral hawk]

All abliterated

I hate how I have to change model configs every time I do this

[opaque sigil]

this is one way of adding a path to the list of paths to check (yes, there are way too many ways of doing the same thing)

[rancid ore]

wait I think I was just cloning instead of actually getting the releases

[marsh coral]

r u testing via ollama?

[midnight sigil]

notkonii are you konii

[marsh coral]

or llama.cpp

[opaque wharf]

I like the simplicity and the fact that in C #include is just copy-paste the file content

[rancid ore]

or-
oh dear lord I do not know what I'm doing

[floral hawk]

Yeah LM studio, but even if I wasnt I have to edit my backend to test new models

[marsh coral]

mhmm

[opaque sigil]

idk if i'd use the word "like" personally

[midnight sigil]

should've used love

[rough bloom]

so basically your usual basic C project structure is kinda like this

src/myfile.c
include/mylib/myfile.h
Makefile

you'd add the include/ directory to the include path, so that #include <mylib/myfile.h> searches in there and finds the header
having the mylib subdirectory avoids conflicts with any other libraries, since those will all share the same include path

[floral hawk]

So I see Gemma 4 has vision, is that comparable to the vision capabilities of Smol500M or is it going to be more taxing?

The actual VRAM size is about the same.

[rancid ore]

how do I get a thing off of github without having to install every dependency separately

[rough bloom]

depends on the thing

what thing

[opaque sigil]

releases if you're lucky and it exists usually

[floral hawk]

Usually they involve a dependencies TXT you can batch install

[opaque sigil]

big if

[rancid ore]

https://github.com/chris-pie/neuro-sdk-websocketpp/tree/main

[opaque wharf]

Please understand that I've been dealing with Nuxt hydration issue for a while which makes C simplicity seems wonderful

[opaque wharf]

Hehe, pp

[rancid ore]

eye rolls

[midnight sigil]

pp

[opaque sigil]

looks like the only thing to install is boost

[olive sable]

is it bad that pp just makes me think of powerpoint 😭
gamedev-slop

[midnight sigil]

[rough bloom]

README explains it
nlohmann json is something you'll just have to get from elsewhere, like from your package manager or from the GitHub releases
websocketpp is included as a submodule so it's already there if you just clone with submodules
idk where you get Boost

[opaque sigil]

system package manager i guess

[opaque wharf]

nlohmann is a library now? I thought it was header only?

[opaque sigil]

it is

[rough bloom]

it is

it's just also not included

[opaque wharf]

How times changed

[midnight sigil]

you download it and put it in include directories

[rancid ore]

how do I clone with submodules

it hasn't been doing that for me

[opaque sigil]

if you already have the project cloned then what you want is git submodule update --init --recursive

[rough bloom]

git clone --recurse-submodules

[opaque wharf]

git clone --init-submodules <url> iirc

Oh recurse

[midnight sigil]

3 styles of git users

[rough bloom]

include directories
-# this project structure sucks

[rancid ore]

...I may have just deleted the thing to clone it again

oooh, I'm a noob

[opaque sigil]

dw we've all been there

[opaque wharf]

Don't worry, at least you're not dealing with web frontend

[opaque sigil]

i still forget about cloning with submodules and then my first thought is to delete and clone again

[opaque wharf]

Hydration error

[rancid ore]

I literally have no idea what that is

[midnight sigil]

you can just directly -I the Boost library's include dir. I just put it in Windows Environment Variables directly, and let visual studio do its job... again

[rough bloom]

well ye
you just need to obtain Boost somehow

and idk what the best way to do that is for whatever platform they're on

boost is not header-only so it's annoying

[opaque wharf]

Me to Nuxt right now

[rancid ore]

I did download boost, not sure how to install it though

[rough bloom]

oh, and in this case you can't just put it on the include path

it CMake project

[opaque sigil]

-I $(nix build nixpkgs#boost.dev --print-out-paths --no-link)/include -L $(nix build nixpkgs#boost.dev --print-out-paths --no-link)/lib

[opaque wharf]

I still can't understand why CMake didn't just make the CMakeLists.txt be an instruction to be included easily

[midnight sigil]

it's still possible to switch to makefiles from this early stage, surely

[olive sable]

it is always possibel to make makefiles

[midnight sigil]

I hate cmake so much I just make my own batch files to compile via MSVC Build Tools

[opaque sigil]

i love the github ui

[rancid ore]

is there a way to clone the sdk from github with the dependencies

[opaque sigil]

didn't want to read a file's contents anyway

the one you sent?

[rancid ore]

yeh

[rough bloom]

no

[opaque sigil]

unfortunately no, unless someone fixes it

though

should be easy enough to fix i can do this real quick

[rough bloom]

this is a large part of package managers exist
when you install something though a package manager they go and get all the dependencies too

there's no way this SDK is packaged though

[rancid ore]

I've just been using powershell

I probably shouldn't have been doing that

[rough bloom]

no, PowerShell is fine, that's different

on Windows you'd use NuGet for fetching C++ dependencies I think?

[opaque wharf]

Huh, I thought it was for application only

[rough bloom]

there's applications on NuGet?

or are you confusing it with WinGet

[opaque wharf]

Ahh WinGet

[young plover]

?
You can install CMake projects if the library author didn't do anything too weird.

[rough bloom]

find_package won't find it though

[young plover]

It worked in a yocto system for the libraries I tried at least.

[stark needle]

U can turn off reasoning

✅

[midnight sigil]

winget can also fetch msvc++ redistribute packages

[floral hawk]

Is there a way to hybridize it? I'm seeing it has tool call which my DarkIdol llama didn't, so it would be handy for it to have reasoning there.

[rough bloom]

technically not applications

[floral hawk]

But for personality responses, maybe not so much

[opaque wharf]

I still wouldn't call that library for development purpose tho

It's like .so without the .h

[floral hawk]

I'm gonna do some testing on Gemma 4, I appreciate the heads up to look into it. If I can get it to work the way I need I might be in a good spot tbh.

It saves me the need for an extra model for tool call while she's gaming/controlling OBS

[midnight sigil]

you can fetch Windows Driver Kit/Windows SDK

does that count

[floral hawk]

Though admittedly I'm a tad worried about personality degredation, I still got a DarkIdol variant so it should be roughly the same

[midnight sigil]

[opaque wharf]

Sure, yeah I guess that one counts

[stark needle]

Have the LLM call a tool that turns on thinking

Or turns off

[floral hawk]

Okay fire I can easily wire that up

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-insane-asylum-rubber-room-snailpo-rosetoy-gif-16450185003739944321

[floral hawk]

Relatable

[fast pagoda]

@stark needlebruh your name on here is koniipilled

[stark needle]

🇩🇪 🇨🇳 ✅

[olive sable]

"koniipilled"

[midnight sigil]

koniipilled

[stark needle]

knrioi

[midnight sigil]

all names here look koniipiled

[stark needle]

🪹

[fast pagoda]

:omemga

[midnight sigil]

:omemga

[stark needle]

✅

[rough bloom]

[midnight sigil]

I define koniipilation as non-English characters in names

and doing reacts

of course

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/karaoke-tv-so-soaked-greedy-desperate-gif-20720063

[opaque wharf]

Am I chaypilled then?

[fast pagoda]

the only chaypilled one is konii

[stark needle]

𓌳𓄿𓂝 𓊪𓅱 𓅨𓂋𓏏 𓇋 𓋴𓄿𓄿 𓅨𓂋🪣 🪹 ✅

[opaque wharf]

Why does my phone have egyptian hieroglyph installed

[tiny edge]

is that how programmers communicate?

[opaque wharf]

Yes, specifically APL programmer

That, or BQN

[opaque sigil]

@rancid ore idk if you still need it but i fixed the thingy (cmake now downloads and builds boost), though idk if it works under windows (i think it should?)
https://github.com/tdortman/neuro-sdk-websocketpp

[tiny edge]

[opaque sigil]

funny enough they need an older version of boost cause some asio stuff got removed

[opaque wharf]

In favor of coroutine?

[opaque sigil]

idk

boost::asio::io_service got yeeted and replaced by boost::asio::io_context

[frozen igloo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympiadane

[opaque sigil]

[rancid ore]

thanks!

[opaque sigil]

[rancid ore]

Oh, uh, I don't know if I have Cmake.

[glass flower]

this tripped me up ngl

[opaque sigil]

refined github my beloved

[umbral wigeon]

Can't even understand what does that even mean

[opaque sigil]

./build/NeuroRPS
[2026-05-15 20:26:42] [info] asio async_connect error: system:111 (Connection refused)
[2026-05-15 20:26:42] [info] Error getting remote endpoint: system:107 (Transport endpoint is not connected)
[2026-05-15 20:26:42] [fail] WebSocket Connection Unknown - "" / 0 websocketpp.transport:2 Underlying Transport Error
Connection failed!
[2026-05-15 20:26:42] [error] handle_connect error: Underlying Transport Error
[2026-05-15 20:26:45] [info] asio async_connect error: system:111 (Connection refused)
[2026-05-15 20:26:45] [info] Error getting remote endpoint: system:107 (Transport endpoint is not connected)
[2026-05-15 20:26:45] [fail] WebSocket Connection Unknown - "" / 0 websocketpp.transport:2 Underlying Transport Error
Connection failed!

idk if this is bad but i'll assume this is not my fault

oh it expects a websocket server on port 8000

[frozen igloo]

Something about a molecule with interlocking loops that aren’t actually bonded to each other which is really cursed

[kind fable]

guys am i crazy for using this deno permission set ?

[opaque sigil]

no

[kind fable]

actually i can strengthen it more

gonna limit the ffi to vite

[umbral wigeon]

What do you guys think about custom automatic gc or manual gc in high level languages like lua, C# (game dev topic)

[kind fable]

Java GC good

ZGC works well now

[opaque sigil]

as a heads-up, in order to build it you want to run

cmake -S . -B build

and then

cmake --build build

and then run ./build/NeuroRPS.exe i guess

[umbral wigeon]

Does gc reduces ram usages right?

(I need to read more docs lmao)

[kind fable]

GC does does Garbage Collection

AKA freeing RAM which should be freed

so that it can be reused for other stuff

[umbral wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-garbage-pissed-trash-garbage-truck-gif-15035882

[rancid ore]

-- Building for: NMake Makefiles
CMake Deprecation Warning at CMakeLists.txt:2 (cmake_minimum_required):
  Compatibility with CMake < 3.10 will be removed from a future version of
  CMake.

  Update the VERSION argument <min> value.  Or, use the <min>...<max> syntax
  to tell CMake that the project requires at least <min> but has been updated
  to work with policies introduced by <max> or earlier.


CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:3 (project):
  Running

   'nmake' '-?'

  failed with:

   no such file or directory


CMake Error: CMAKE_C_COMPILER not set, after EnableLanguage
CMake Error: CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER not set, after EnableLanguage
-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!```

holy wall of text

[opaque sigil]

why is nmake there

[rancid ore]

idk

[umbral wigeon]

What is nmake?

There nmake now?

[opaque sigil]

oh it's using nmake as the default target

[rancid ore]

I still don't have the websocket thing, is there something else I need to do after cloning it?

[opaque sigil]

git submodule update --init --recursive (i made it fail the build with a message to run that if it's missing anyway)

[opaque sigil]

if you run cmake --help there should be a list of generators at the bottom, what you probably want is whichever one mentions visual studio

and then run cmake -G <whichever one it is> -S . -B build (delete build first)

[rancid ore]

Submodule 'websocketpp' (https://github.com/zaphoyd/websocketpp) registered for path 'websocketpp'
Cloning into 'C:/Users/vest/GoofyGames/votvMod/neuro-sdk-websocketpp/websocketpp'...
Submodule path 'websocketpp': checked out '4dfe1be74e684acca19ac1cf96cce0df9eac2a2d'```

that look good?

[opaque sigil]

[rancid ore]

now what

clang still hates me

[stark needle]

🪣

[opaque sigil]

time to install ninja to make life easier if you already have clang

[rancid ore]

how do I do that

[opaque sigil]

do you have winget

[rancid ore]

yes

[opaque sigil]

winget install -e --id Ninja-build.Ninja

[rancid ore]

got it

[opaque sigil]

idk where it dumps its files though, but you do need access to the ninja.exe in your terminal

[rancid ore]

um

how do I do that

[opaque sigil]

i think it should be somewhere under C:\Program Files\Ninja\

if you're on powershell it might already be there

[rancid ore]

it's not there

...

I used terminal, I probably shouldn't have done that

[opaque sigil]

nah that's good

does get-command ninja give anything

[rancid ore]

where should I run that

[opaque sigil]

terminal

[rancid ore]

oh yeah, I got something

CommandType     Name                                               Version    Source
-----------     ----                                               -------    ------
Application     ninja.exe                                          0.0.0.0    C:\Users\vest\AppData\Local\Microsoft...```

[fickle rain]

I ❤️ xmake

[opaque sigil]

nice it did its thing

[rancid ore]

oh ok

[opaque sigil]

now run git pull in the project, i made some changes

[opaque wharf]

I like nob

[opaque sigil]

i wanna say cmake --workflow --preset clang should handle everything to setup and build it then but who knows with windows

[opaque wharf]

See, the creator is perfectly sane person

[stuck ocean]

windows in the big 26 😔

[rancid ore]

CMake Error: Error: generator : Ninja
Does not match the generator used previously: NMake Makefiles
Either remove the CMakeCache.txt file and CMakeFiles directory or choose a different binary directory.```

AAAAAAAAAA

[opaque sigil]

yeah delete the build folder

[rancid ore]

oh

[opaque sigil]

and try again

[opaque wharf]

You need to delete the build folder first

Why cmake doesn't do that on its own is beyond me

[kind fable]

i hate this shit already

vite is asking for process.env

so i can't just allow whitelist

i'm forced to allow all

[rancid ore]

CMake Deprecation Warning at CMakeLists.txt:2 (cmake_minimum_required):
  Compatibility with CMake < 3.10 will be removed from a future version of
  CMake.

  Update the VERSION argument <min> value.  Or, use the <min>...<max> syntax
  to tell CMake that the project requires at least <min> but has been updated
  to work with policies introduced by <max> or earlier.


-- The C compiler identification is unknown
-- The CXX compiler identification is unknown
CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:3 (project):
  The CMAKE_C_COMPILER:

    clang

  is not a full path and was not found in the PATH.  Perhaps the extension is
  missing?

  Tell CMake where to find the compiler by setting either the environment
  variable "CC" or the CMake cache entry CMAKE_C_COMPILER to the full path to
  the compiler, or to the compiler name if it is in the PATH.


CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:3 (project):
  The CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER:

    clang++

  is not a full path and was not found in the PATH.  Perhaps the extension is
  missing?

  Tell CMake where to find the compiler by setting either the environment
  variable "CXX" or the CMake cache entry CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER to the full path
  to the compiler, or to the compiler name if it is in the PATH.


-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!```

[opaque sigil]

i love windows native developement

[kind fable]

so i'll need to manually deny

[opaque sigil]

do you not have clang installed

[rancid ore]

I don't know!

[opaque sigil]

time to run winget install -e --id LLVM.LLVM i guess

[opaque wharf]

Y know, maybe it's a good time to learn about build system beyond IDE

[opaque sigil]

maybe

[marsh coral]

WSL

[jaunty moss]

i think there is a computer in your error

[rancid ore]

it installed correctly but the cmake --workflow --preset clang thing still failed

[rancid ore]

EVIL

...

I deleted it and it still failed

[opaque wharf]

The issue is not with build now

It is clang

[rough bloom]

seeing all the Windows issues again makes me very glad to be on Linux

[opaque sigil]

time for a pizza break

[rough bloom]

thank you #baking for reminding me

[jaunty moss]

so what are you even trying to do vest

[rancid ore]

https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1498563528351809609

I need some way to implement the neuro sdk in unreal blueprints

and in order to do that, I need the c++ version

[opaque wharf]

Hmmm, NeuroSDK technically just a spec

So you can use any websocket libraries and json to achieve that

[rough bloom]

do blueprints natively do websocket?

I assume there's a way to bind to C++ stuff

[opaque wharf]

I found this header only stuff
https://github.com/zaphoyd/websocketpp

[rough bloom]

but if it doesn't already do websocket then it's going to be easier to just bind to the neuro sdk probably

[opaque wharf]

And nlohmann is header only too

[rancid ore]

there's plugins, but I'd prefer to validate before going into blueprints, because LATENCY

[rough bloom]

otherwise you still have to write bindings but now you also need to reimplement the Neuro SDK for no reason

[jaunty moss]

why were you doing this anyway

[rancid ore]

because every other integration has been for games that don't run on unreal
and blueprints will save slightly more of my sanity than trying to actually learn c++

[opaque sigil]

gotta love latent spaces

[glass flower]

well.. but the cyberpunk integration is c++ so.. that would be a good starting point to see how that would work

you could also look there to see what library are used for websockets

[jaunty moss]

so you're doing this for fun?

[marsh coral]

truee
i tried to learn c++ and my brain got fried and gave up

[rough bloom]

looks like, as expected, you need to write C++ to create bindings for blueprints
so you're not really going to get around learning that

[marsh coral]

cuz in c++ there r dozens of ways

to do the same thing

[rancid ore]

theoretically

[rancid ore]

yeah but I might be able to just kitbash that

all I really need to do is logic

[rough bloom]

this uses a C Neuro SDK, not the C++ one

https://github.com/alphanin9/libneurosdk/

build process is even more cursed than the C++ lib though

but mabe easier? idk

[glass flower]

[rancid ore]

would it still work with unreal?

[glass flower]

someone rewrite this library in zig. so i can then rewrite it in rust

[rough bloom]

probably

[rancid ore]

...
how

[glass flower]

any c library works in unreal

through the magic of... programming

[rough bloom]

as long as there are no conflicting symbols

[fickle rain]

This is fork of original library

[opaque wharf]

As if gamedev is not cursed enough already

[fickle rain]

Benefits: actually works with Neuro backend

[opaque wharf]

I mean, just look at Sam

[rough bloom]

[fickle rain]

Ask Claude

[glass flower]

i should write a neurosdk for rust

idk why.. but i should

for the sake of it

[rough bloom]

doesn't that already exist

surely it does

ye made by leaf

[opaque sigil]

chay made it no?

ye

[glass flower]

https://github.com/chayleaf/rust-neuro-sama-game-api

[opaque sigil]

pretty sure she made that day 1 lol

[rancid ore]

if someone else wants to set up a sdk for unreal please do, I don't know what I'm doing

[opaque wharf]

NotNeuroSDK?

[opaque wharf]

Ohh, surprisingly normal name

[glass flower]

[opaque sigil]

rust moment

[rancid ore]

oh no

[opaque wharf]

I take that back

[opaque sigil]

there's nothing wrong with this

blame the language

[rough bloom]

the consequences of no GATs

or was it something else

forgor

[rancid ore]

oh no, what the heck

[glass flower]

i don't think there is a zig library yet

[rough bloom]

oh yeah you probably just can't do this with the type system at all

macro reasonable

[opaque wharf]

So, wanna follow the pyramid?

[rough bloom]

[kind fable]

what the fuck

[opaque sigil]

idk what GAT is but variadic tuples do not exist in rust

[glass flower]

i would... but idk if unreal even runs on linux and i also don't want to download 100gb

[rough bloom]

ye, I confused it with something else

[nocturne olive]

What the hell is that

[rough bloom]

it's time

C++ is calling you

[fickle rain]

Claude oneshots

[opaque wharf]

As tsoding said, you need a muncher for that

[stark needle]

hi superbox ✅

[rancid ore]

https://dev.epicgames.com/documentation/unreal-engine/linux-quick-start?application_version=4.27
there's this, but the whole download thing is understandable

[olive sable]

excuse me?

[nocturne olive]

[rough bloom]

hi Sam

[opaque wharf]

Damn, I thought you are still away

[rough bloom]

[rancid ore]

I've heard making mods for votv is a pain on linux though

[glass flower]

compiling the engine..... i hate waiting 3 hours before actually being able to do anything...

[opaque wharf]

WHAT?!

[fickle rain]

I wouldn’t wanna be the guy debugging video game mod with winedbg

[opaque wharf]

Did they actually require that to do unreal dev on linux?!

[glass flower]

UE5 took like 3-5hours on my pc to compile

[opaque wharf]

[glass flower]

looks like it

[rancid ore]

ono

[opaque wharf]

That is beyond cursed

[rough bloom]

[opaque wharf]

You weren't kidding

Currently, we don't supply a binary installer of UE4 for Linux users. The good news is that you can compile a binary of Unreal Engine from the same source code that we use to develop the engine.

[glass flower]

[opaque sigil]

i think it works (very fragile though would not recommend)

[fickle rain]

Maybe is of the libc issue?

[rancid ore]

GOOD NEWS???

[fickle rain]

As they say, Win32 is the only stable Linux ABI

[rough bloom]

there is also

syscalls

[fickle rain]

Quite

[opaque wharf]

Huh? I thought linux ABI is always stable

[opaque sigil]

the syscalls are

[opaque wharf]

Sure userspace ABI may be unstable but the syscall are stable right?

[opaque sigil]

nothing else is

[opaque wharf]

Ye

[opaque sigil]

doesn't matter if everything goes through glibc

[opaque wharf]

Embed the libc as static linked library

[glass flower]

just rewrite libc in rust. that will solve all our problems 🙏

[fickle rain]

Don’t you still have GUI stuff if you wanna live outside of terminal

[rough bloom]

there is also

BPF

[opaque wharf]

Embed the libc into everything duh

Become rust

Statically link everything

[glass flower]

he gets it

[rough bloom]

Rust slander

this is Go tiers of static linking

[patent shard]

AINTNEURWAY

[glass flower]

wait i just found out there is a rust screeps starter template... https://github.com/rustyscreeps/screeps-starter-rust

[opaque wharf]

Who was it that wanted to play screeps using rust but ended up needing to pull some DOM library

[rough bloom]

-# also it would be nice if we didn't have to statically link everything and could just figure out proper package management and build tooling but that's utopian

[opaque wharf]

Honestly nix got it right IMHO

That, and bsd firejail

[rough bloom]

I think there's still a lot of improvements possible but yeah, it's better than a lot of other stuff

sadly not everyone agrees

[patent shard]

Everyone just uses the ancient mp3 format and ancient gif format and ancient h.264 format
They love high file sizes and shitty quality for no reason

[glass flower]

i'll be honest. i don't think its worth using a wasm based screeps code base.. unless it can compile to JS i don't think its worth the overhead

[opaque sigil]

okay so @rancid ore

• winget install -e --id MartinStorsjo.LLVM-MinGW.UCRT to install the new version of clang
• then restart terminal to make sure the added aliases are usable
• run git pull once again
• make sure to delete the build folder
• cmake --workflow --preset clang-mingw should hopefully work

[fickle rain]

…can’t you just install Visual Studio?

[opaque sigil]

this is a matter of principle

[fickle rain]

I see

[opaque sigil]

(you should probably just use visual studio tbf)

[glass flower]

ah yes.. downloading a 10gb program for a 1gb library

[opaque wharf]

Naah, f that

[fickle rain]

Or just the build tools, CMake should handle it fine anyway

[opaque wharf]

Toast is using cmake, yes

[rough bloom]

installing VS build tools would be reasonable, ye

[olive sable]

vscode sure, but never VS, never again

[minor crag]

I hate luau, I hate coding, I hate ml, I hate embeddings, I hate file io, I wanna move into the wilderness

[kind fable]

is my deno.json sane ?

[opaque wharf]

Unless you are makin .net gui apps

[olive sable]

just dont

[opaque sigil]

jokes on you it's only 700M

[olive sable]

dont make .net stuff

i hate .net

[fickle rain]

Install Zig and use zig cc

[opaque sigil]

unironically not wrong

[opaque wharf]

They do make it easy to develop GUI program tho

[rough bloom]

if only you were this based when it comes to indentation styles

[olive sable]

look

im usign the incorrect way for my nix cofig for parity

you have to give me some credit

[rough bloom]

no

I refuse

[opaque wharf]

Konii level of changing space to tabs

[minor crag]

I'm gonna continue hating embeddings now

[olive sable]

im not using newlines int he nix cofig

that counts for something

[opaque wharf]

Nob

[minor crag]

OK nevermind I still hate this

[opaque wharf]

https://github.com/tsoding/nob.h

[glass flower]

i wonder if there are new devs that are out there still learning c

[rough bloom]

definitely

[minor crag]

Not willingly

[opaque wharf]

Electrical Engineers still uses C a lot

[glass flower]

whenever i think of learning c.. i think why c when i could learn zig! but zig is unstable... so c++.. but why c++ when i could use rust! and then i end up using c#

[opaque wharf]

Since embedded system tooling are VERY slow to catch up

[rough bloom]

C is just too useful to not know at least a little bit

if you're doing any systems programming at all

if web then whatever

[opaque wharf]

The joys of doing both

[minor crag]

Just give it 62 years and then they will finally start using lua5.1

[glass flower]

i tried making my own voxel engine in c++ it used 16gb of ram and had a memory leak

[opaque wharf]

https://modbuswebui.dev/

[opaque wharf]

Use Chrome btw, since firefox doesn't have webserial api

[rancid ore]

ok have you considered
no

[opaque wharf]

But I can use my phone to look at modbus data without needing dedicated apk

[rancid ore]

because HOLY HECK that's a massive privacy risk

[rough bloom]

it doesn't work

[opaque wharf]

Plug in OTG and USB-RS485